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Re: Facts and Action (was Re: algore in hell again...) [message #86116 is a reply to message #86110] Tue, 05 June 2007 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
James McCloskey wrote:
> Sure the earth has heated up, the earth has been going through a sun cycle.

Prove it. You can't. The data does not support the assertion that the
current warming is caused entirely by changes in the sun.

If that were the case, if the proof were there, then that would be the
scientific consensus. It's not.


> The has gone through cycles through it's history.

True.


> There is no proof the
> man made global warming is a serious problem.

False.

There is solid evidence from multiple scientific fields, from scientists
in the USA and all over the world. And it would be extremely foolish to
ignore it.


> Sure we should cut back,

Yes.


> but we are not in eminent threat of destroying the earth from man made global
> warming.

No, it won't blow up tomorrow. It will just slowly keep heating and
that's not great for our species over time.

Or other species.

The planet will still be around though even if we make it less livable
for ourselves and future generations.

As we pass certain triggers, the heating could accelerate.

Not the best future to choose. And we can still choose.


> It's not a fact. There are just as many scientist that disagree
> with it.

Oh good grief. If you want to go by scientist count the vast majority of
climate scientists AGREE that human causes are contributing to the
current global warming.

Because that is what the hard science indicates.

Some disagree on this or that minor point, and that's typical, but they
agree on the fundamental facts.

A very few disagree on larger points and that's also typical.
Disagreement is a part of how science works. Some of those scientists
are clearly wrong and have been well debunked. Some are funded by the
oil and gas lobby. You could look it up.


> The alarmist are profiteering from it. It's a scare tactic. The
> scientist that say man made global warming is going to destroy the earth
> are being funded to study to study man global warming. It's billion dollars
> a year. Those scientist want more money to continue studying man made global
> warming. They want more money, and if enough suckers buy in to it they will
> legislate laws and taxes. It's about money, that's the real truth! People
> are getting rich on this. It's about profiteering on a lie.

Anyone who thinks that's all there is to it is seriously misguided. Read
the science. Get past the disinformation campaign.

Profiteering should be avoided everywhere. In global warming,
absolutely. And in Iraq (start there if you want to stop profiteering
right now). And everywhere else.

But sound science should not be ignored because a few charlatans may exist.

IOW, yes, please, go ahead and weed out any actual charlatans. But do
not, DO NOT tar all the hard working and honest scientists with that
brush. It's unfair, inaccurate and ridiculous. And to ignore the
evidence is dangerous.


> Go look at the history of DuPont Freon. When DuPont was going to lose their
> patent and freon and it was going to become public domain they band freon.
> The said freon was bad for the environment and it was causing a hole in
> the ozone layer. So DuPont came up with a new patented coolant gas, which
> our government approved. DuPont has an exclusive on government approved
> refrigerant. That's how this stuff works, it's about money. Look at what
> refrigerant now cost, it's not $3.00 a can anymore.

I have no argument about stopping a company from profiteering. However
that is a separate issue from climate change.

You should read up on the science and maybe you can find a way to help
solve both problems, that of profiteering AND that of human
contributions to global warming.

There is no rational justification for using fear of profiteering to
completely ignore or dismiss the real problem of human contributions to
global warming. Unless you own Exxon, are short sighted, and value short
term profits over a wise stewardship of our planet.


> Sorry I'm not buying in to the bullshit, and I'm not about to pay carbon
> offset taxes and hand the wealth of the USA to third world countries.

Do it some other way then, James. Solve the problem. Do not hide behind
some foolish political smokescreen served up by blowhard media
entertainers dishing up the PR campaign of fossil fuel industries.

I'm quite surprised you would be taken in by that, as sensitive as you
say you are to ripoffs.

Read the actual science. Get past the disinformation. See where the real
bullshit is, and be part of the solution.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com



> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> James, the current global warming is a measured fact. No one who can
>> read temperature records is disputing it.
>>
>> Evidence for human contribution to the current global warming is quite
>> compelling and well accepted among climate scientists overall. These are
>
>> not stupid people and they are not conspiring to rip us off. They are
>> not political pundits, talk show windbags, politicians or mafioso.
>>
>> They are scientists, geeks, nerds and, some of them, real heroes.
>>
>> These scientists have invested their lives in learning all that we know
>
>> about climate. Based on their excellent research, we know enough to act
>
>> on, and we know it in time for actions to make a difference - which is
>> good news.
>>
>> Not acting would be completely irresponsible, given the risks.
>>
>> How we act is up for discussion. There are many options, we need to
>> choose an optimal combination.
>>
>> I favor acting in ways that build the economy, stimulate innovation and
>
>> increase our energy independence and national security. This could be a
>
>> net win rather than a huge cost. Anyone who thinks dealing with
>> anthropogenic global warming is too expensive, total up the costs of not
>
>> dealing with it and think again.
>>
>> At this point, after decades of serious scientific study, calling it
>> bullshit is bullshit. You may think some folks are being too alarmist
>> about it, and maybe they are. But climate change is a problem, the
>> scientific evidence is there, and it won't go away by pretending it
>> doesn't exist or being fearful about stepping up to the plate. Since
>> when have we been afraid to face facts in this country?
>>
>> It's time to keep our heads out of the sand, act prudently, and plan
>> wisely for the next generations.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>> I believe in science, I believe in funding science. I don't believe in
> funding
>>> bullshit!
>>>
>>> Global warming is a boondoggle!
>>>
>>> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>> Yeah, let's not finance science whatever we do. It's just a big conspiracy
>>>> to destroy religion.
>>>>
>>>> S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4664a51e$1@linux...
>>>>> Sounding the alarm bells!!! It's a crisis!!! We are going to fall
>
>>>>> behind!!!
>>>>> hurry, hurry, hurry! Call your government officials and let them know
>>>>> they
>>>>> need to spend, spend, spend!!! Money, money, money!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Boy, if we don't spend more money on this global warming thing we are
>>> all
>>>>> going to die!!! What bull shit!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19030744/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> i guess you'd have to go to mylasia and the sort where the islands
> are
>>>>>>> disappearing under the sea a little each year. i don't know why
>>>>>>> people insist on global cataclysm before the "possibility" exists.
>>>>>>> shit happens and happens all the time and historically we've had
>>>>>>> warming and cooling trends on this blue marble. i find it hard to
>>>>>>> deny that we (all 6 billion plus) do not negatively impact our
>>>>>>> surroundings in some way and possibly faster than the planet can
>>>>>>> correct it.
>>>>>>> the "it's all about money" works both ways and it ain't always the
>>>>>>> leftie commie longhair atheists makin' a buck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah it is!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5 Jun 2007 01:07:29 +1000, "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There were a bunch of Greens that went to the north poll to prove
> that
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> is now warm. They literally had to cut their feet and hands off
> because
>>>>>>>> of frost bite.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it has already melted where are all the floods Al Gore is talking
>>>>>>>> about???
>>>>>>>> It's still bullshit!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> James...........go to Google Earth and find the north Pole (0:00)
>
>>>>>>>>> degrees
>>>>>>>>> longitude and 90:00 latitude and tell me if you see any snow there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll save you some time.......it's water now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Deej
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4663a090$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>> Your dragging me in to this. The european space agency has been
>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>> photos
>>>>>>>>>> of the polar caps for years. They say that they melt an break
> and
>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>> They say they refreeze, and are staying the same size over all.
>
>>> They
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> not shrinking, it's a big lie!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Al Gore is a lier. It's about money! A greasy politician like
> Al
>>>>> Gore
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>> be involved if it wasn't. He is buying Global offsets for $0.10
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> turning
>>>>>>>>>> and selling them to us for a dollar, it's about money. These
>>>>>>>>>> trilateralist
>>>>>>>>>> want to turn it in to a tax. they want to take the tax revenue
> and
>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>> it to third world countries. Guilt tax!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The truth is, our government spends over two billion dollars a
> year
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> study
>>>>>>>>>> this. The scientist that are on the government gravy train want
>>> to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>>>>> increased. Other scientist are saying it's not true. Man made
>
>>>>>>>>>> global
>>>>>>>>>> warming
>>>>>>>>>> is a scam.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scientist are divided on this issue of man made Global Warming.
>
>>> Man
>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>> Global Warming is a theory. There is no conclusive proof.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All the scientist know we are going through a sun cycle that has
>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> warming
>>>>>>>>>> the earth.
>>>>>>>>>> Show me some proof that people are dyeing from Global Warming,
> you
>>>>> can't.
>>>>>>>>>> There has always been bad weather. The earth always goes through
>>>>>>>>>> cycles.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The guy that came up with man made global warming said back in
> the
>>>>> 70s
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> we would be in an ice age right now. So which is it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's about money.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry I'm not buying in to the man's bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm serious James. I grew up in south Texas, and spent a good
> part
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> life on the Gulf coast. there were droughts and heat waves and
>
>>>>>>>>>>> hurricanes
>>>>>>>>>>> and all sorts of cyclical weather events. I'm well over the half
>>>>>>>>>>> century
>>>>>>>>>>> mark so I may have a little perspective on this due to my qualifying
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat of an old fart, and I've never seen sustained water
>>>>>>>>>>> temperatures
>>>>>>>>>>> this high in the gulf of Mexico. that may not cause hurricanes
> in
>>> and
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> itself, but it the warmer the water, the more likely a tropical
> storm
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> turn into a real motherfucker on the half shell.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:46638b62$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check the polar icecap. This was taken from Google Earth today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go...or has it always been this tiny?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't find any satellite photos of the North Pole in 1992
> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> compare.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's probably Bush's fault.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gore melted it with all his hot air!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinthetroposphere.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:46630a29$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html? id=c47c1209-233b-412c-b6d1-5c755457a8af
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is getting interesting innit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>

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