Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » ASUS A8R-MVP any good for Cubase 4 DAW?
|
|
|
|
| Re: ASUS A8R-MVP any good for Cubase 4 DAW? [message #82154 is a reply to message #82147] |
Mon, 26 March 2007 21:27   |
Jon Jiles
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though as
my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V, I
bought one of these.
I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw upgrade
(mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
Thanks,
Jon
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>Hi Jon,
>It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would bother
>with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead end
>for upgrades and such.
>If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then it
>will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core 2 Duo
>975 chipset based system.
>Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar prices.
>
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>Jon Jiles wrote:
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
4 ....or
>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>
>> Any tips?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>> Jon
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: ASUS A8R-MVP any good for Cubase 4 DAW? [message #82179 is a reply to message #82154] |
Tue, 27 March 2007 14:03 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Jon,
make sure you load the newest BIOS before you getting to chipset/driver
updates etc.
leave the sata controller on ids mode the raid mode is not very reliable.
Make sure you use the AMD dual core optimizer driver and the ULI chipset
update from Nvidias website not from ASUS website. Don't use the on
boards sound.
Don't use 4 gigs of ram the board is not as stable with 4 gigs.
Chris
Jon Jiles wrote:
> Hey Chris,
>
> Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though as
> my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V, I
> bought one of these.
>
> I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
> etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw upgrade
> (mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
>
> Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
>
> Thanks,
> Jon
>
>
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>> Hi Jon,
>> It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would bother
>
>> with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead end
>> for upgrades and such.
>> If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then it
>> will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core 2 Duo
>
>> 975 chipset based system.
>> Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar prices.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
> 4 ....or
>>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>>
>>> Any tips?
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>> Jon
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>> ADK
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> (859) 635-5762
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: ASUS A8R-MVP any good for Cubase 4 DAW? [message #82283 is a reply to message #82179] |
Thu, 29 March 2007 09:53 |
Jon Jiles
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Hey Chris - Thanks a bunch for the info!!!
Cheers,
Jon
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>Hi Jon,
>make sure you load the newest BIOS before you getting to chipset/driver
>updates etc.
>
>leave the sata controller on ids mode the raid mode is not very reliable.
>Make sure you use the AMD dual core optimizer driver and the ULI chipset
>update from Nvidias website not from ASUS website. Don't use the on
>boards sound.
>
>Don't use 4 gigs of ram the board is not as stable with 4 gigs.
>
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>
>Jon Jiles wrote:
>> Hey Chris,
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though
as
>> my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V,
I
>> bought one of these.
>>
>> I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
>> etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw upgrade
>> (mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
>>
>> Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Jon,
>>> It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would bother
>>
>>> with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead end
>>> for upgrades and such.
>>> If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then it
>>> will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core 2
Duo
>>
>>> 975 chipset based system.
>>> Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar prices.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
>> 4 ....or
>>>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>>>
>>>> Any tips?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> ADK
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>> (859) 635-5762
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>
>ADK Pro Audio
>(859) 635-5762
>www.adkproaudio.com
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Yo Chris -ASUS A8R-MVP - any CPU/ram suggestions [message #82410 is a reply to message #82283] |
Sat, 31 March 2007 12:47 |
Jon Jiles
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2005
|
Member |
|
|
So Mr. Ludwig,
What CPU/Ram combos would you suggest with this board for best stability
with Cubase 4?
Thanks!
jj
"Jon Jiles" <nomo@nomo.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Chris - Thanks a bunch for the info!!!
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>Hi Jon,
>>make sure you load the newest BIOS before you getting to chipset/driver
>
>>updates etc.
>>
>>leave the sata controller on ids mode the raid mode is not very reliable.
>>Make sure you use the AMD dual core optimizer driver and the ULI chipset
>
>>update from Nvidias website not from ASUS website. Don't use the on
>>boards sound.
>>
>>Don't use 4 gigs of ram the board is not as stable with 4 gigs.
>>
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Jon Jiles wrote:
>>> Hey Chris,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though
>as
>>> my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V,
>I
>>> bought one of these.
>>>
>>> I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
>>> etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw upgrade
>>> (mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
>>>
>>> Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Jon,
>>>> It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would bother
>>>
>>>> with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead end
>
>>>> for upgrades and such.
>>>> If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then
it
>
>>>> will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core 2
>Duo
>>>
>>>> 975 chipset based system.
>>>> Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar
prices.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
>>> 4 ....or
>>>>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any tips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>>> Jon
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Chris Ludwig
>>
>>ADK Pro Audio
>>(859) 635-5762
>>www.adkproaudio.com
>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Yo Chris -ASUS A8R-MVP - any CPU/ram suggestions [message #82432 is a reply to message #82410] |
Sat, 31 March 2007 19:23 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
HI Jon;
The FX60 or higher or the Opteron 175 or higher.
We used to use Samsung DDR400 CL2. You will have to use it in pairs for
dual channel memory support.
Don't bother with more than 2 gigs.
Chris
Jon Jiles wrote:
> So Mr. Ludwig,
>
> What CPU/Ram combos would you suggest with this board for best stability
> with Cubase 4?
>
> Thanks!
> jj
>
> "Jon Jiles" <nomo@nomo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Chris - Thanks a bunch for the info!!!
>> Cheers,
>> Jon
>>
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jon,
>>> make sure you load the newest BIOS before you getting to chipset/driver
>>>
>>> updates etc.
>>>
>>> leave the sata controller on ids mode the raid mode is not very reliable.
>>> Make sure you use the AMD dual core optimizer driver and the ULI chipset
>>>
>>> update from Nvidias website not from ASUS website. Don't use the on
>>> boards sound.
>>>
>>> Don't use 4 gigs of ram the board is not as stable with 4 gigs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though
>>>>
>> as
>>
>>>> my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V,
>>>>
>> I
>>
>>>> bought one of these.
>>>>
>>>> I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
>>>> etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw upgrade
>>>> (mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
>>>>
>>>> Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jon,
>>>>> It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would bother
>>>>>
>>>>> with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead end
>>>>>
>>>>> for upgrades and such.
>>>>> If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then
>>>>>
> it
>
>>>>> will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core 2
>>>>>
>> Duo
>>
>>>>> 975 chipset based system.
>>>>> Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar
>>>>>
> prices.
>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
>>>>>>
>>>> 4 ....or
>>>>
>>>>>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any tips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>> ADK
>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>
>>> ADK Pro Audio
>>> (859) 635-5762
>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
| Re: Yo Chris -ASUS A8R-MVP - any CPU/ram suggestions [message #82544 is a reply to message #82432] |
Mon, 02 April 2007 21:11 |
Jon Jiles
Messages: 90
Registered: November 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Thanks Chris - Forgot to ask... which video cards play nicest with it? Multi
head or other wise.
Cheers,
Jon
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Jon;
>
>The FX60 or higher or the Opteron 175 or higher.
>
>We used to use Samsung DDR400 CL2. You will have to use it in pairs for
>dual channel memory support.
>Don't bother with more than 2 gigs.
>
>Chris
>
>
>Jon Jiles wrote:
>> So Mr. Ludwig,
>>
>> What CPU/Ram combos would you suggest with this board for best stability
>> with Cubase 4?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> jj
>>
>> "Jon Jiles" <nomo@nomo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Chris - Thanks a bunch for the info!!!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jon,
>>>> make sure you load the newest BIOS before you getting to chipset/driver
>>>>
>>>> updates etc.
>>>>
>>>> leave the sata controller on ids mode the raid mode is not very reliable.
>>>> Make sure you use the AMD dual core optimizer driver and the ULI chipset
>>>>
>>>> update from Nvidias website not from ASUS website. Don't use the on
>>>> boards sound.
>>>>
>>>> Don't use 4 gigs of ram the board is not as stable with 4 gigs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though
>>>>>
>>> as
>>>
>>>>> my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V,
>>>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>> bought one of these.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
>>>>> etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw
upgrade
>>>>> (mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jon,
>>>>>> It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would
bother
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead
end
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for upgrades and such.
>>>>>> If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then
>>>>>>
>> it
>>
>>>>>> will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core
2
>>>>>>
>>> Duo
>>>
>>>>>> 975 chipset based system.
>>>>>> Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar
>>>>>>
>> prices.
>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
>>>>>>>
>>>>> 4 ....or
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any tips?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>>> ADK
>>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>
>>>> ADK Pro Audio
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
| Re: Yo Chris -ASUS A8R-MVP - any CPU/ram suggestions [message #82551 is a reply to message #82544] |
Tue, 03 April 2007 06:49 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
HI Jon,
Any of the Nvidia cards will work fine. Haven't tried Matrox on that board.
Chris
Jon Jiles wrote:
> Thanks Chris - Forgot to ask... which video cards play nicest with it? Multi
> head or other wise.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>
>> HI Jon;
>>
>> The FX60 or higher or the Opteron 175 or higher.
>>
>> We used to use Samsung DDR400 CL2. You will have to use it in pairs for
>>
>
>
>> dual channel memory support.
>> Don't bother with more than 2 gigs.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>
>>> So Mr. Ludwig,
>>>
>>> What CPU/Ram combos would you suggest with this board for best stability
>>> with Cubase 4?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> jj
>>>
>>> "Jon Jiles" <nomo@nomo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey Chris - Thanks a bunch for the info!!!
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jon,
>>>>> make sure you load the newest BIOS before you getting to chipset/driver
>>>>>
>>>>> updates etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> leave the sata controller on ids mode the raid mode is not very reliable.
>>>>> Make sure you use the AMD dual core optimizer driver and the ULI chipset
>>>>>
>>>>> update from Nvidias website not from ASUS website. Don't use the on
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> boards sound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't use 4 gigs of ram the board is not as stable with 4 gigs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the info. I'm kinda stuck in 939 land for a while yet though
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> as
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> my K8ns-ultra just died and, after a nightmare with an out of box A8V,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> bought one of these.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also just bought a A DM-3200 and some other stuff (Ksp8, Cubase upgrade,
>>>>>> etc)as well, so I'm kinda tapped out for the cash to do a major daw
>>>>>>
> upgrade
>
>>>>>> (mobo, cpu, memory etc.)right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any tweaks/caveats I should be aware of for the A8R in the meantime?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jon,
>>>>>>> It's the last of the usable x2-939 motherboards. Not sure I would
>>>>>>>
> bother
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with it now though. The board has been discontinued and is a dead
>>>>>>>
> end
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for upgrades and such.
>>>>>>> If you are looking to up grade from a pre 939 based AMD system then
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> it
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> will be a waste. At this point I would only recommend a Intel Core
>>>>>>>
> 2
>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> Duo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> 975 chipset based system.
>>>>>>> Significantly faster better upgrade path and can be got for similar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> prices.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jon Jiles wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone out there with any experience with the Asus A8R-MVP and Cubase
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4 ....or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A8R as a DAW in general?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any tips?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks a bunch,
>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>>>> ADK
>>>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>>
>>>>> ADK Pro Audio
>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com
>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>> ADK
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> (859) 635-5762
>>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue May 28 22:37:52 PDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01846 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
