Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems
| Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67496] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 15:13  |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hi all,
Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
discovering.
This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
how you do it.
All these sort of things:
http://www.omnirax.com
http://www.argosyconsole.com/
http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
boost at 100hz. !!!!
DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
More to come as I dig into this problem...
DC
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67497 is a reply to message #67496] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 15:36  |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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Are you de-coupling your monitors from the furniture?
David.
DC wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
> coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
> discovering.
>
> This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
> What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
> furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
> how you do it.
>
> All these sort of things:
>
> http://www.omnirax.com
>
> http://www.argosyconsole.com/
>
> http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
>
> Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
> as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
> freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
> designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
> the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
> you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
> the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
> boost at 100hz. !!!!
>
> DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
> a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
> underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
>
> Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
>
> More to come as I dig into this problem...
>
> DC
>
>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67502 is a reply to message #67496] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 17:34 |
justcron
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
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everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq to
flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your mixes
accordingly.
an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
"DC" <DC@spammersinhell.org> wrote in message news:445687f5@linux...
>
> Hi all,
>
> Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
> coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
> discovering.
>
> This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
> What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
> furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
> how you do it.
>
> All these sort of things:
>
> http://www.omnirax.com
>
> http://www.argosyconsole.com/
>
> http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
>
> Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
> as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
> freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
> designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
> the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
> you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
> the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
> boost at 100hz. !!!!
>
> DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
> a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
> underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
>
> Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
>
> More to come as I dig into this problem...
>
> DC
>
>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67504 is a reply to message #67502] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 17:37 |
dc[4]
Messages: 62
Registered: September 2005
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Member |
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"justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq to
>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your mixes
>accordingly.
>
>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but it
won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
playback gear.
Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
DC
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67505 is a reply to message #67504] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 17:50 |
justcron
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
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I know what you're saying, but if you listen to music you 'know' in a
certain environment, you will be able to tell yourself what to do... even if
you build a 100% flat environment to work in, you can still have the same
issues thinking your stuff sounds good here so it will sound good there. I
can go to any environment I know and know ahead of time how its going to
sound in that environment. I'd take 5 imperfect mixing environments over a
flat lab anyday.
"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote in message news:4456a9c1$1@linux...
>
> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq to
>
>>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your mixes
>
>>accordingly.
>>
>>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
>
>
> Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
>
> We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
> sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but it
> won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
> It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
> we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
>
> If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
> already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
> playback gear.
>
> Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
> for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
> hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
> keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
> must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
>
> DC
>
>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67506 is a reply to message #67505] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 18:17 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
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Well, it's true, but we have to start somewhere. Everyone, even
the home stereo speaker people, start with a flat response as the
goal. If we listen to the truth, we can color it and tweak it up, and
it will rock on most systems. If the monitors don't tell us the truth,
our work tends to translate to even fewer systems, not more.
BTW, most living rooms are less bollixed up than many
studios acoustically. All this hardware, especially mixers and studio
furniture really make it hard to hear. And we haven't even talked
about bad speaker locations, asymetrical rooms and other such
nonsense.
I always used my room solely for my own originals and never worried
about how accurate it was. Now I am finding out that, while the
room itself sounds quite good, this desk is a major problem.
Tomorrow I am going to get rid of it, and then put the analyzer back
up and see if we fixed the boost at 100.
DC
"justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>I know what you're saying, but if you listen to music you 'know' in a
>certain environment, you will be able to tell yourself what to do... even
if
>you build a 100% flat environment to work in, you can still have the same
>issues thinking your stuff sounds good here so it will sound good there.
I
>can go to any environment I know and know ahead of time how its going to
>sound in that environment. I'd take 5 imperfect mixing environments over
a
>flat lab anyday.
>
>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote in message news:4456a9c1$1@linux...
>>
>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq to
>>
>>>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your mixes
>>
>>>accordingly.
>>>
>>>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
>>
>>
>> Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
>>
>> We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
>> sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but it
>> won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
>> It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
>> we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
>>
>> If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
>> already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
>> playback gear.
>>
>> Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
>> for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
>> hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
>> keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
>> must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67515 is a reply to message #67506] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 21:23 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/showCustom-0/Pr-p _Product.CATENTRY_ID:2002977/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2002977/Ntx-mod e+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearc hGroup?Ntt=damping
Something like this might help you out. I'm going through the same kind of
thing for the umpteenth time in my career, looking hard at it myself.
AA
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.org> wrote in message news:4456b31d$1@linux...
>
> Well, it's true, but we have to start somewhere. Everyone, even
> the home stereo speaker people, start with a flat response as the
> goal. If we listen to the truth, we can color it and tweak it up, and
> it will rock on most systems. If the monitors don't tell us the truth,
> our work tends to translate to even fewer systems, not more.
>
> BTW, most living rooms are less bollixed up than many
> studios acoustically. All this hardware, especially mixers and studio
> furniture really make it hard to hear. And we haven't even talked
> about bad speaker locations, asymetrical rooms and other such
> nonsense.
>
> I always used my room solely for my own originals and never worried
> about how accurate it was. Now I am finding out that, while the
> room itself sounds quite good, this desk is a major problem.
> Tomorrow I am going to get rid of it, and then put the analyzer back
> up and see if we fixed the boost at 100.
>
> DC
>
>
> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>I know what you're saying, but if you listen to music you 'know' in a
>>certain environment, you will be able to tell yourself what to do... even
> if
>>you build a 100% flat environment to work in, you can still have the same
>
>>issues thinking your stuff sounds good here so it will sound good there.
> I
>>can go to any environment I know and know ahead of time how its going to
>
>>sound in that environment. I'd take 5 imperfect mixing environments over
> a
>>flat lab anyday.
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote in message news:4456a9c1$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq to
>>>
>>>>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your
>>>>mixes
>>>
>>>>accordingly.
>>>>
>>>>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
>>>
>>> We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
>>> sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but it
>>> won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
>>> It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
>>> we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
>>>
>>> If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
>>> already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
>>> playback gear.
>>>
>>> Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
>>> for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
>>> hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
>>> keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
>>> must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
|
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67519 is a reply to message #67514] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 23:38 |
dc[4]
Messages: 62
Registered: September 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Hi Neil!
howwahhya?
I have a very nice 10' ceiling with a good slope and Celotex all over
it. Worse, the bass boost happens long before the sound gets up
there. You can take the measurement mic and watch the
phenomenon disappear as you get close to the speaker, and
reappear right at my listening position. I also deliberately measured
the anomaly at only 75db or so, so I am sure I am not hearing
reflections. BTW, the proportion of boost does not increase with
level, so it is not coming back from the room.
I *really* have to get rid of this desk. It also really buggers the
sub's response because of all the chambers and loading it creates.
I will know more shortly.
thanks for the help everyone!
DC
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>You might also just try hanging a bass trap directly above the
>listening position (if you've got a flat ceiling), or a couple
>feet in front of the listening position (if you've got
>a "proper" control room slanted-type ceiling). That'll suck up
>several db's worth of reflected freq's in your problem range.
>
>Just a simple homemade absorber should work to test it out...
>glue a sheet of OC-703 to a piece of 1/4" MDF, wrap a pretty
>color of cloth around it for appearance's sake & hang it from
>eyelet screws attached to each corner of the MDF... won't
>absorb as much lows as a proper bass trap, but it'll have
>enough mass to cut down some of it, and for 15 bucks worth of
>goodies you might be able to keep your desk. If it cuts down
>some, but not quite enough, then at least you'll know if
>hanging one or two proper bass traps in that position will get
>the job done.
>
>Neil
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>>
>>EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>It's probably near field early reflections from the desk surface.
>>>This has always been an issue with meter bridge mounted monitors. In
>>>the past, I used to sit the nearfields on stands behind the console at
>
>>>a height that would prevent any direct reflection from the desk
>>>surface... maybe try something like that...
>>>
>>>David.
>>
>>
>>A friend who designs monitors calls it the "baffle step effect" which
>>is another way of saying that the reflections are so early that they
>>essentially become a part of the front baffle of the speaker.
>>
>>I used to have the speakers higher and behind the desk and they
>>sounded really awful there precisely because of refections and
>>loading of the area behind the desk.
>>
>>The only real solution is to get rid of the desk. I am going to try
>>this tomorrow and see if it fixes things. I bet it will.
>>
>>more to follow
>>
>>DC
>>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67520 is a reply to message #67515] |
Mon, 01 May 2006 23:40 |
dc[4]
Messages: 62
Registered: September 2005
|
Member |
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|
I am thinking that the only real solution is having absolutely nothing
between me and the speakers except a couple of C-16's and a
computer KB. Some of my mastering buddies do this and it
sure seems to work.
No studio furniture, no racks , no desk, no table with stuff on it.
I'll know more soon.
DC
"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/showCustom-0/Pr-p _Product.CATENTRY_ID:2002977/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2002977/Ntx-mod e+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearc hGroup?Ntt=damping
>
>Something like this might help you out. I'm going through the same kind
of
>thing for the umpteenth time in my career, looking hard at it myself.
>
>AA
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.org> wrote in message news:4456b31d$1@linux...
>>
>> Well, it's true, but we have to start somewhere. Everyone, even
>> the home stereo speaker people, start with a flat response as the
>> goal. If we listen to the truth, we can color it and tweak it up, and
>> it will rock on most systems. If the monitors don't tell us the truth,
>> our work tends to translate to even fewer systems, not more.
>>
>> BTW, most living rooms are less bollixed up than many
>> studios acoustically. All this hardware, especially mixers and studio
>> furniture really make it hard to hear. And we haven't even talked
>> about bad speaker locations, asymetrical rooms and other such
>> nonsense.
>>
>> I always used my room solely for my own originals and never worried
>> about how accurate it was. Now I am finding out that, while the
>> room itself sounds quite good, this desk is a major problem.
>> Tomorrow I am going to get rid of it, and then put the analyzer back
>> up and see if we fixed the boost at 100.
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>I know what you're saying, but if you listen to music you 'know' in a
>>>certain environment, you will be able to tell yourself what to do... even
>> if
>>>you build a 100% flat environment to work in, you can still have the same
>>
>>>issues thinking your stuff sounds good here so it will sound good there.
>> I
>>>can go to any environment I know and know ahead of time how its going
to
>>
>>>sound in that environment. I'd take 5 imperfect mixing environments over
>> a
>>>flat lab anyday.
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote in message news:4456a9c1$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>>>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq
to
>>>>
>>>>>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your
>>>>>mixes
>>>>
>>>>>accordingly.
>>>>>
>>>>>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
>>>>
>>>> We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
>>>> sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but it
>>>> won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
>>>> It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
>>>> we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
>>>>
>>>> If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
>>>> already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
>>>> playback gear.
>>>>
>>>> Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
>>>> for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
>>>> hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
>>>> keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
>>>> must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67526 is a reply to message #67519] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 05:59 |
Nei
Messages: 108
Registered: November 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Actually, what I was suggesting is not that you have a
weakeness in your acoustic treatment, but that you deliberately
create a "notch" in that frequency range which will minimize
the effects of what the desk is doing (I mean, you gotta have
some kind of workspace, so getting rid of the desk may not be
practical).
In any event, I know what you're experiencing, because a friend
of mine had a very nice stainless steel desk custom-built for
his control room (he's got a loft-style apartment & studio
that's comprised of what used to be several small, old, retail
shops in a building downtown), and when he first was getting
the place up & working, we heard getting MASSIVE bass boost
from that desktop - at the time, the room was completely devoid
of any acoustic treatment, so each & every problem was very
apparent (such as the protruding concrete ceiling joist a few
feet behind the listening position reflecting all kinds of crap
down at you). His problem was probably worse than yours,
because the steel desktop isn't going to absorb ANYTHING,
whereas if your desktop is wood or particle board, etc., it's
going to absorb at least a little of what hits it.
So if it's the desk & only the desk, what about turning the
desktop into a bass trap... 703 on the underside of the
desktop, enclose that with some wood with an air gap inside -
you know the drill.
Bet no one's tried that before. Could work!
Neil
"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Neil!
>
>howwahhya?
>
>I have a very nice 10' ceiling with a good slope and Celotex all over
>it. Worse, the bass boost happens long before the sound gets up
>there. You can take the measurement mic and watch the
>phenomenon disappear as you get close to the speaker, and
>reappear right at my listening position. I also deliberately measured
>the anomaly at only 75db or so, so I am sure I am not hearing
>reflections. BTW, the proportion of boost does not increase with
>level, so it is not coming back from the room.
>
>I *really* have to get rid of this desk. It also really buggers the
>sub's response because of all the chambers and loading it creates.
>
>I will know more shortly.
>
>thanks for the help everyone!
>
>DC
>
>
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>You might also just try hanging a bass trap directly above the
>>listening position (if you've got a flat ceiling), or a couple
>>feet in front of the listening position (if you've got
>>a "proper" control room slanted-type ceiling). That'll suck up
>>several db's worth of reflected freq's in your problem range.
>>
>>Just a simple homemade absorber should work to test it out...
>>glue a sheet of OC-703 to a piece of 1/4" MDF, wrap a pretty
>>color of cloth around it for appearance's sake & hang it from
>>eyelet screws attached to each corner of the MDF... won't
>>absorb as much lows as a proper bass trap, but it'll have
>>enough mass to cut down some of it, and for 15 bucks worth of
>>goodies you might be able to keep your desk. If it cuts down
>>some, but not quite enough, then at least you'll know if
>>hanging one or two proper bass traps in that position will get
>>the job done.
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>It's probably near field early reflections from the desk surface.
>>>>This has always been an issue with meter bridge mounted monitors. In
>
>>>>the past, I used to sit the nearfields on stands behind the console at
>>
>>>>a height that would prevent any direct reflection from the desk
>>>>surface... maybe try something like that...
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>
>>>
>>>A friend who designs monitors calls it the "baffle step effect" which
>>>is another way of saying that the reflections are so early that they
>>>essentially become a part of the front baffle of the speaker.
>>>
>>>I used to have the speakers higher and behind the desk and they
>>>sounded really awful there precisely because of refections and
>>>loading of the area behind the desk.
>>>
>>>The only real solution is to get rid of the desk. I am going to try
>>>this tomorrow and see if it fixes things. I bet it will.
>>>
>>>more to follow
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67527 is a reply to message #67520] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 06:04 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It kind of sounds like a minimalist mastering set up. You may be on to something
here.
"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>
>I am thinking that the only real solution is having absolutely nothing
>between me and the speakers except a couple of C-16's and a
>computer KB. Some of my mastering buddies do this and it
>sure seems to work.
>
>No studio furniture, no racks , no desk, no table with stuff on it.
>
>I'll know more soon.
>
>DC
>
>
>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/showCustom-0/Pr-p _Product.CATENTRY_ID:2002977/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2002977/Ntx-mod e+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearc hGroup?Ntt=damping
>>
>>Something like this might help you out. I'm going through the same kind
>of
>>thing for the umpteenth time in my career, looking hard at it myself.
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.org> wrote in message news:4456b31d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Well, it's true, but we have to start somewhere. Everyone, even
>>> the home stereo speaker people, start with a flat response as the
>>> goal. If we listen to the truth, we can color it and tweak it up, and
>>> it will rock on most systems. If the monitors don't tell us the truth,
>>> our work tends to translate to even fewer systems, not more.
>>>
>>> BTW, most living rooms are less bollixed up than many
>>> studios acoustically. All this hardware, especially mixers and studio
>>> furniture really make it hard to hear. And we haven't even talked
>>> about bad speaker locations, asymetrical rooms and other such
>>> nonsense.
>>>
>>> I always used my room solely for my own originals and never worried
>>> about how accurate it was. Now I am finding out that, while the
>>> room itself sounds quite good, this desk is a major problem.
>>> Tomorrow I am going to get rid of it, and then put the analyzer back
>>> up and see if we fixed the boost at 100.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>>I know what you're saying, but if you listen to music you 'know' in a
>>>>certain environment, you will be able to tell yourself what to do...
even
>>> if
>>>>you build a 100% flat environment to work in, you can still have the
same
>>>
>>>>issues thinking your stuff sounds good here so it will sound good there.
>>> I
>>>>can go to any environment I know and know ahead of time how its going
>to
>>>
>>>>sound in that environment. I'd take 5 imperfect mixing environments
over
>>> a
>>>>flat lab anyday.
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote in message news:4456a9c1$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>>>>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use eq
>to
>>>>>
>>>>>>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your
>
>>>>>>mixes
>>>>>
>>>>>>accordingly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
>>>>>
>>>>> We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
>>>>> sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but it
>>>>> won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
>>>>> It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
>>>>> we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
>>>>> already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
>>>>> playback gear.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
>>>>> for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
>>>>> hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
>>>>> keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
>>>>> must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
>>>>>
>>>>> DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67528 is a reply to message #67519] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 06:47 |
"Kris" .
Messages: 27
Registered: June 2006
|
Junior Member |
|
|
You're probably not gonna believe me, but speaker loading (corner
loading, extended baffle, speaker boundary, soffit mounting, etc)
is the one acoustic problem that can be corrected with EQ. The
extended baffle should have a shelf-eq type effect (which may
look like a band boost when combined with the speaker's natural
LF rolloff). You should be able to apply a corrective inverse
shelf to compensate.
This, combined with some trapping targeted around 100Hz to damp
any modes that the extra bass might be exciting should go a
long way to remedying the problem.
That said, console design from an acoustic standpoint is one
thing that is often overlooked. I've seen lots of studios that
have phenomenal looking control rooms, well proportioned
acoustically, plenty of trapping/diffusion, and nearfield
perched on a mock meter bridge with the listening position
bathed in console splash. What's the point? To me, a big
advantage to DAWs is that you can make the desk smaller, and acoustically
sweeter....ever consider building trapping into your desk itself???? I have!!
Cheers,
Kris
"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Neil!
>
>howwahhya?
>
>I have a very nice 10' ceiling with a good slope and Celotex all over
>it. Worse, the bass boost happens long before the sound gets up
>there. You can take the measurement mic and watch the
>phenomenon disappear as you get close to the speaker, and
>reappear right at my listening position. I also deliberately measured
>the anomaly at only 75db or so, so I am sure I am not hearing
>reflections. BTW, the proportion of boost does not increase with
>level, so it is not coming back from the room.
>
>I *really* have to get rid of this desk. It also really buggers the
>sub's response because of all the chambers and loading it creates.
>
>I will know more shortly.
>
>thanks for the help everyone!
>
>DC
>
>
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>You might also just try hanging a bass trap directly above the
>>listening position (if you've got a flat ceiling), or a couple
>>feet in front of the listening position (if you've got
>>a "proper" control room slanted-type ceiling). That'll suck up
>>several db's worth of reflected freq's in your problem range.
>>
>>Just a simple homemade absorber should work to test it out...
>>glue a sheet of OC-703 to a piece of 1/4" MDF, wrap a pretty
>>color of cloth around it for appearance's sake & hang it from
>>eyelet screws attached to each corner of the MDF... won't
>>absorb as much lows as a proper bass trap, but it'll have
>>enough mass to cut down some of it, and for 15 bucks worth of
>>goodies you might be able to keep your desk. If it cuts down
>>some, but not quite enough, then at least you'll know if
>>hanging one or two proper bass traps in that position will get
>>the job done.
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>It's probably near field early reflections from the desk surface.
>>>>This has always been an issue with meter bridge mounted monitors. In
>
>>>>the past, I used to sit the nearfields on stands behind the console at
>>
>>>>a height that would prevent any direct reflection from the desk
>>>>surface... maybe try something like that...
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>
>>>
>>>A friend who designs monitors calls it the "baffle step effect" which
>>>is another way of saying that the reflections are so early that they
>>>essentially become a part of the front baffle of the speaker.
>>>
>>>I used to have the speakers higher and behind the desk and they
>>>sounded really awful there precisely because of refections and
>>>loading of the area behind the desk.
>>>
>>>The only real solution is to get rid of the desk. I am going to try
>>>this tomorrow and see if it fixes things. I bet it will.
>>>
>>>more to follow
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67529 is a reply to message #67527] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 07:15 |
jim phillips
Messages: 7
Registered: September 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
I have a remote c16 that I use outside to mix on, no more room problems. I
just set up my moniters and c16 on nice days/nights. it run in tandem with
my other 16 in the control room. "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>It kind of sounds like a minimalist mastering set up. You may be on to
something
>here.
>
>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote:
>>
>>I am thinking that the only real solution is having absolutely nothing
>>between me and the speakers except a couple of C-16's and a
>>computer KB. Some of my mastering buddies do this and it
>>sure seems to work.
>>
>>No studio furniture, no racks , no desk, no table with stuff on it.
>>
>>I'll know more soon.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>> http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/showCustom-0/Pr-p _Product.CATENTRY_ID:2002977/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2002977/Ntx-mod e+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearc hGroup?Ntt=damping
>>>
>>>Something like this might help you out. I'm going through the same kind
>>of
>>>thing for the umpteenth time in my career, looking hard at it myself.
>>>
>>>AA
>>>
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.org> wrote in message news:4456b31d$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Well, it's true, but we have to start somewhere. Everyone, even
>>>> the home stereo speaker people, start with a flat response as the
>>>> goal. If we listen to the truth, we can color it and tweak it up, and
>>>> it will rock on most systems. If the monitors don't tell us the truth,
>>>> our work tends to translate to even fewer systems, not more.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, most living rooms are less bollixed up than many
>>>> studios acoustically. All this hardware, especially mixers and studio
>>>> furniture really make it hard to hear. And we haven't even talked
>>>> about bad speaker locations, asymetrical rooms and other such
>>>> nonsense.
>>>>
>>>> I always used my room solely for my own originals and never worried
>>>> about how accurate it was. Now I am finding out that, while the
>>>> room itself sounds quite good, this desk is a major problem.
>>>> Tomorrow I am going to get rid of it, and then put the analyzer back
>>>> up and see if we fixed the boost at 100.
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>>>I know what you're saying, but if you listen to music you 'know' in
a
>>>>>certain environment, you will be able to tell yourself what to do...
>even
>>>> if
>>>>>you build a 100% flat environment to work in, you can still have the
>same
>>>>
>>>>>issues thinking your stuff sounds good here so it will sound good there.
>>>> I
>>>>>can go to any environment I know and know ahead of time how its going
>>to
>>>>
>>>>>sound in that environment. I'd take 5 imperfect mixing environments
>over
>>>> a
>>>>>flat lab anyday.
>>>>>
>>>>>"DC" <dc@spamthemoon.com> wrote in message news:4456a9c1$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "justcron" <paris@hydrorecords.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>everything around it affects the sound in some way... you can use
eq
>>to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>flatten it out or you just learn what its doing and compensate your
>>
>>>>>>>mixes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>accordingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>an 8db boost at 100 isn't such a bad thing :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually it is, because it will make all your mixes weak in that area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We often assume that a big, huge sounding speaker with lots of
>>>>>> sizzle and boom will produce mixes that sound just like that, but
it
>>>>>> won't. In reality, it lies to us because of it's non-linear response.
>>>>>> It tells us something sounds big that really is pretty weak. Then
>>>>>> we take the mix somewhere else, or even in the car, and it is wimpy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want an 8db boost at 100, you need a speaker that does not
>>>>>> already have one so you can add it yourself in the music, not the
>>>>>> playback gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, "learning the room/monitors" etc only works if you will settle
>>>>>> for just "OK" sound. If you want to just nail it, you need to really
>>>>>> hear it. My project has drums, percussion, 4 voices, 3 guitars,
>>>>>> keys and bass. And they all want to hear themselves... So I simply
>>>>>> must be able to hear or the mix will be crap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67530 is a reply to message #67496] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 07:28 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is what I have tried with mixed results (no pun intended):
I have a nice sound system in my “TV Room” with Infinity Kappa 9 speakers
and early NAD electronics. Its old but it sounds good and more important,
I know the system well. The room is also reasonably good acoustically. I
added a pair of Jensen line transformers before the NAD (and balanced wiring),
so I can check mixes live through the second system. With a laptop and Timbuktu
Pro, I can add last minute touches to my mixes remotely.
I wouldn’t want to do a full mix this way, but for final touch ups it works
fine.
Has it really helped?…NO. The Kappa’s are nice sounding and unobstructed,
but they have a very different feel (like mixing on B&W's). It’s distracting.
The idea might work better with a system that was closer to the sound of
my studio mons, but this is an inexpensive approach that you may want to
try, assuming you have access to a decent audio system.
Gene
P.S. Timbuktu Pro adds a fair amount of strain on my Paris system so this
can be problematic on complex mixes. I recently tried doing a “Two box mix”
running Timbuktu Pro on my Mac running Performer. I wired a pair of super
long MIDI cables so I can also run my MorotMix along with the laptop. It’s
a cool setup but still mostly academic since I have never preferred a mix
I have done this way.
Next to try… my wireless laptop setup works well all around my house and
yard, so– Mix in my car! If I run the long MIDI cables out my bedroom window,
I think I can also use the MotorMix.
"DC" <DC@spammersinhell.org> wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
>coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
>discovering.
>
>This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
>What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
>furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
>how you do it.
>
>All these sort of things:
>
>http://www.omnirax.com
>
>http://www.argosyconsole.com/
>
>http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
>
>Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
>as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
>freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
>designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
>the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
>you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
>the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
>boost at 100hz. !!!!
>
>DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
>a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
>underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
>
>Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
>
>More to come as I dig into this problem...
>
>DC
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67532 is a reply to message #67496] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 08:37 |
jef knight[1]
Messages: 201
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Don,
I found myself fighting this from the get-go, so I've always had smaller
console/furniture realestate and used side stands, currently the
ultimate support 42" ers. That fixed alot of that for me. Yet, many of
my fave albums/cd's were done in rooms that had their nfm's on the
bridge of some gigantumongous metal slab console. a dillema? na,...not
when you see the mfm's hiding up there in the wall.....lol
jef
DC wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
>coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
>discovering.
>
>This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
>What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
>furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
>how you do it.
>
>All these sort of things:
>
>http://www.omnirax.com
>
>http://www.argosyconsole.com/
>
>http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
>
>Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
>as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
>freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
>designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
>the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
>you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
>the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
>boost at 100hz. !!!!
>
>DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
>a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
>underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
>
>Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
>
>More to come as I dig into this problem...
>
>DC
>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67540 is a reply to message #67530] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 09:56 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm running a 30' trs?insert cable from my CR upstairs from one of the
outputs of my DAC-1 to a NAD preamp>inputs balanced) >NAD power amp which is
driving a pair of huge ADS 1520's in my living room. It's a good way to
check mixes and masters. I've also got a PC in the living area and I will
likely be trying the Tibuktu or other remote desktop. I like the old NAD
stuff too. It's sufficiently hi-fi without losing the *consumer vibe* so I'm
able to stay in the reality ballpark as far as playback systems go. I also
have an old consumer Sony system in my CR (my version of NS10's with front
firing bass ports) that I A/B with my NHT A-20/B-20's. I'm sure my room has
plenty of anomalies, but I've listened to so much reference material there
that I know it well and I'm happy with the results I can achieve with this
threefold reference monitoring approach.
Deej
ne lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:44576c83$1@linux...
>
> This is what I have tried with mixed results (no pun intended):
> I have a nice sound system in my "TV Room" with Infinity Kappa 9 speakers
> and early NAD electronics. Its old but it sounds good and more important,
> I know the system well. The room is also reasonably good acoustically. I
> added a pair of Jensen line transformers before the NAD (and balanced
wiring),
> so I can check mixes live through the second system. With a laptop and
Timbuktu
> Pro, I can add last minute touches to my mixes remotely.
>
> I wouldn't want to do a full mix this way, but for final touch ups it
works
> fine.
>
> Has it really helped?.NO. The Kappa's are nice sounding and unobstructed,
> but they have a very different feel (like mixing on B&W's). It's
distracting.
>
> The idea might work better with a system that was closer to the sound of
> my studio mons, but this is an inexpensive approach that you may want to
> try, assuming you have access to a decent audio system.
>
> Gene
>
> P.S. Timbuktu Pro adds a fair amount of strain on my Paris system so this
> can be problematic on complex mixes. I recently tried doing a "Two box
mix"
> running Timbuktu Pro on my Mac running Performer. I wired a pair of super
> long MIDI cables so I can also run my MorotMix along with the laptop. It's
> a cool setup but still mostly academic since I have never preferred a mix
> I have done this way.
>
> Next to try. my wireless laptop setup works well all around my house and
> yard, so- Mix in my car! If I run the long MIDI cables out my bedroom
window,
> I think I can also use the MotorMix.
>
>
>
> "DC" <DC@spammersinhell.org> wrote:
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
> >coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
> >discovering.
> >
> >This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
> >What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
> >furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
> >how you do it.
> >
> >All these sort of things:
> >
> >http://www.omnirax.com
> >
> >http://www.argosyconsole.com/
> >
> >http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
> >
> >Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
> >as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
> >freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
> >designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
> >the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
> >you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
> >the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
> >boost at 100hz. !!!!
> >
> >DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
> >a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
> >underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
> >
> >Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
> >
> >More to come as I dig into this problem...
> >
> >DC
> >
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67557 is a reply to message #67530] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 15:22 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dude, why midi? Go Wifi and do a remote desktop to Paris (I'm making a bit
of an assumption here that the Mac can do a terminal service across WiFi). I
do this regularly on my internet desktop and Inspiron because it's better
for me to stay central. Push the output of Paris to a mini radio transmitter
and you should be good to mix in the car....
AA
"gene lennon" <glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:44576c83$1@linux...
>
> This is what I have tried with mixed results (no pun intended):
> I have a nice sound system in my "TV Room" with Infinity Kappa 9 speakers
> and early NAD electronics. Its old but it sounds good and more important,
> I know the system well. The room is also reasonably good acoustically. I
> added a pair of Jensen line transformers before the NAD (and balanced
> wiring),
> so I can check mixes live through the second system. With a laptop and
> Timbuktu
> Pro, I can add last minute touches to my mixes remotely.
>
> I wouldn't want to do a full mix this way, but for final touch ups it
> works
> fine.
>
> Has it really helped?.NO. The Kappa's are nice sounding and unobstructed,
> but they have a very different feel (like mixing on B&W's). It's
> distracting.
>
> The idea might work better with a system that was closer to the sound of
> my studio mons, but this is an inexpensive approach that you may want to
> try, assuming you have access to a decent audio system.
>
> Gene
>
> P.S. Timbuktu Pro adds a fair amount of strain on my Paris system so this
> can be problematic on complex mixes. I recently tried doing a "Two box
> mix"
> running Timbuktu Pro on my Mac running Performer. I wired a pair of super
> long MIDI cables so I can also run my MorotMix along with the laptop. It's
> a cool setup but still mostly academic since I have never preferred a mix
> I have done this way.
>
> Next to try. my wireless laptop setup works well all around my house and
> yard, so- Mix in my car! If I run the long MIDI cables out my bedroom
> window,
> I think I can also use the MotorMix.
>
>
>
> "DC" <DC@spammersinhell.org> wrote:
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Hey, I am finding this out the hard way. My mix of the live project is
>>coming along nicely, except for all the acoustic anomalies I am
>>discovering.
>>
>>This is un-freaking believeable, but the analyzer proved it.
>>What I found is that putting speakers on top of typical audio
>>furniture causes *huge* frequency-response problems. No matter
>>how you do it.
>>
>>All these sort of things:
>>
>>http://www.omnirax.com
>>
>>http://www.argosyconsole.com/
>>
>>http://custom-consoles.com/recording_studio_furniture.php
>>
>>Every one of them, cause huge increases in the low mids by acting
>>as an extension of the front baffle of the speaker. Speaker
>>freq. response is measured in anechoic chambers, so speakers are
>>designed to be flat in that environment. When you put them on
>>the top of a table or console, or even nearby to a table or console,
>>you get a significant boost in low-mids (typically, but it depends on
>>the size of the new baffle surface). In my case it results in an 8db
>>boost at 100hz. !!!!
>>
>>DAMN! How am I supposed to mix like this? So, I am off to find
>>a very small desk that will just fit 2 C-16's with the computer KB
>>underneath, and the speakers are going back on the heavy stands.
>>
>>Why doesn't anyone offer studio furniture that deals with this?
>>
>>More to come as I dig into this problem...
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>
>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
|
|
|
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| Re: Studio Furniture causes acoustic problems [message #67563 is a reply to message #67557] |
Tue, 02 May 2006 16:25 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Dude, why midi? Go Wifi and do a remote desktop to Paris (I'm making a bit
>of an assumption here that the Mac can do a terminal service across WiFi).
I
>do this regularly on my internet desktop and Inspiron because it's better
>for me to stay central. Push the output of Paris to a mini radio transmitter
>and you should be good to mix in the car....
>
>AA
>
I am WiFi and it works fine for remote desktop, but I hate using the trackpad.
A mouse is OK but I like faders more. For my “Car Mixes”, I have Line-In
on my car stereo so I’m all set. Just need to try it. For FM I wonder what
the latency would be like if I ISDN my Paris output to the Princeton University
Radio station and do the mix live over the air? :-)
g
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