Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT: 3 Quadrillion
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94605 is a reply to message #94592] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 17:53   |
emarenot
Messages: 345
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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Ridiculous numbers, yeah, probably in some cases. And, yeah, lawyers must
have swarmed to the occasion. And oh yeah, Katrina was one hell of an Act
of God. However, while I don't have a strong set of data or facts to rely
on, I think the debacles at the convention center and superdome are facts
enough: lots of folks, state and federal, screwed up. Other than lawsuits,
I'm not sure what other ways folks can pursue justice.
MR
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_re_us/katrina_floo d_lawsuits
>
>The ultimate in lawsuit insanity.
>
>The people of the US should sue these individuals and their lawyers for
the
>cost of our tax dollars wasted in these ridiculous lawsuits. That amount
>alone could likely have built them all nice homes wherever they want to
>live.
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94607 is a reply to message #94605] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 17:19 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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Justice? 3 quad isn't justice, it's spiteful vengeance.
There is a lot that happens in life that isn't fair and no human being has
any control over.
We can't sue everytime there isn't someone there to make everything okay for
us. Sure, there were bad situations, in New Orleans but there have been a
lot of similar or worse situations in smaller scales that no one even blinks
an eye at, or files a lawsuit for.
People like this would never survive a real national disaster where the
whole economic, communications and/or transportation system collapsed.
"mike r" <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:47880f7f$1@linux...
>
> Ridiculous numbers, yeah, probably in some cases. And, yeah, lawyers must
> have swarmed to the occasion. And oh yeah, Katrina was one hell of an Act
> of God. However, while I don't have a strong set of data or facts to rely
> on, I think the debacles at the convention center and superdome are facts
> enough: lots of folks, state and federal, screwed up. Other than
> lawsuits,
> I'm not sure what other ways folks can pursue justice.
> MR
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_re_us/katrina_floo d_lawsuits
>>
>>The ultimate in lawsuit insanity.
>>
>>The people of the US should sue these individuals and their lawyers for
> the
>>cost of our tax dollars wasted in these ridiculous lawsuits. That amount
>>alone could likely have built them all nice homes wherever they want to
>>live.
>>
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94609 is a reply to message #94608] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 18:50 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Here's an example from the site;
MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments
of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard, president,
Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005
REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception
of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors.
In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue
effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving
on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall.
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94611 is a reply to message #94609] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 18:14 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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But Don - they didn't arrive 3 hours after. And if they did, they wouldn't
have arrived 3 minutes after,
and if they did, the coffee would have been too hot and people would have
burned their tongues and sued anyway.
"DC" <dc@spamnersinhell.com> wrote in message news:47881cee$1@linux...
>
> Here's an example from the site;
>
>
> MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst
> abandonments
> of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard,
> president,
> Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005
>
> REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception
> of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors.
> In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and
> fastest-rescue
> effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving
> on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall.
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94612 is a reply to message #94611] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 19:25 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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What just angered me to the point of popping a fuse was the
blatant racism of the media.
When it all was said and done, there was no "holocaust" in
the Superdome or the Convention Center. It was all bulsh*t.
Those black Americans behaved, in the main, as the good people
they are, and the crime rate in those facilities matched a
normal city of that size. All the fears of rape and murder
and God knows what else, were straight out of the racist minds
of the media...
DC
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>But Don - they didn't arrive 3 hours after. And if they did, they wouldn't
>have arrived 3 minutes after,
>and if they did, the coffee would have been too hot and people would have
>burned their tongues and sued anyway.
>
>"DC" <dc@spamnersinhell.com> wrote in message news:47881cee$1@linux...
>>
>> Here's an example from the site;
>>
>>
>> MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst
>> abandonments
>> of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard,
>> president,
>> Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005
>>
>> REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception
>> of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors.
>> In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and
>> fastest-rescue
>> effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving
>> on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall.
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94613 is a reply to message #94607] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 20:07 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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I don't know who is planning to sue and for what. But we DID have a real
national disaster down in Nawlins, at or near the top as disasters go
for the USA, and the ball was dropped over and over again before, during
and after.
There is plenty of blame to go around at every step. Plenty of points of
failure. Finding blame in one place won't excuse other places from
blame. For example, you can't excuse the poor reaction of the federal
government by blaming local government, nor can you excuse unprepared
people by blaming the federal government. It's not so simple that you
can wave a vague accusation in any one direction to make it all go away.
I have no doubt there are legitimate lawsuits to be filed. I have no
doubt frivolous lawsuits will also be filed. And for the latter, more
blame is due. But any legit cases cannot be dismissed just because of
the frivolous ones.
Like the physical cleanup itself, the legal cleanup will be another
complex mess that has to be picked through piece by piece.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Dedric Terry wrote:
> Justice? 3 quad isn't justice, it's spiteful vengeance.
>
> There is a lot that happens in life that isn't fair and no human being
> has any control over.
> We can't sue everytime there isn't someone there to make everything okay
> for us. Sure, there were bad situations, in New Orleans but there have
> been a lot of similar or worse situations in smaller scales that no one
> even blinks an eye at, or files a lawsuit for.
> People like this would never survive a real national disaster where the
> whole economic, communications and/or transportation system collapsed.
>
> "mike r" <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:47880f7f$1@linux...
>>
>> Ridiculous numbers, yeah, probably in some cases. And, yeah, lawyers must
>> have swarmed to the occasion. And oh yeah, Katrina was one hell of an Act
>> of God. However, while I don't have a strong set of data or facts to rely
>> on, I think the debacles at the convention center and superdome are facts
>> enough: lots of folks, state and federal, screwed up. Other than
>> lawsuits,
>> I'm not sure what other ways folks can pursue justice.
>> MR
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_re_us/katrina_floo d_lawsuits
>>>
>>> The ultimate in lawsuit insanity.
>>>
>>> The people of the US should sue these individuals and their lawyers for
>> the
>>> cost of our tax dollars wasted in these ridiculous lawsuits. That
>>> amount
>>> alone could likely have built them all nice homes wherever they want to
>>> live.
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94614 is a reply to message #94613] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 21:56 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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I haven't researched it fully yet, but based on that article - that's the
sum total of 247 plaintiffs filing for $1B, and one for $1 Quadrillion.
There are 489,000 total lawsuits, but they will be marred by the 248 or so
that are beyond reality. Legitimate cases may very well get lost in the
noise of greed of these 248. The public outcry over the amounts will surely
put the complete legal basis for the suits into question. Not really a
smart move - jeopardizing 489,000 for the sake of 1 (plus 247).
I am guessing they would have to prove that the actions, or inaction of
government at the local level (if not a defendant) did nothing to hinder or
delay the response of the federal government, and the federal government was
in fact directly responsible for suffering of these people either by lack of
enacting guaranteed services, or by knowingly causing harm - that's a hard
sell in any court imho. Since the Army Corps of Engineers has already been
found to be in the clear (the levees would have been useless in a direct
hit), these people may have a really hard time proving their case. Suing
anyone over the aftermath of a natural disaster, that is in itself a
complete unknown with no guarantees, is suspect at best.
If this were to win at any level, then the door would be open for people to
sue the Coast Guard for not rescuing an overturned vessel's crew fast
enough. It will in all likelihood instigate a move for people living in
disaster prone areas to sign a federal and state document absolving the
government of responsibility for such a habitation choice. Since people
have made it about a ridiculous amount of money, now the various authorities
will have to protect themselves - same as McDonald's "Coffee may be hot"
warning on a the side of a cup of coffee that one would be irate if it were
not actually hot.
Dedric
On 1/11/08 9:07 PM, in article 47883db0@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know who is planning to sue and for what. But we DID have a real
> national disaster down in Nawlins, at or near the top as disasters go
> for the USA, and the ball was dropped over and over again before, during
> and after.
>
> There is plenty of blame to go around at every step. Plenty of points of
> failure. Finding blame in one place won't excuse other places from
> blame. For example, you can't excuse the poor reaction of the federal
> government by blaming local government, nor can you excuse unprepared
> people by blaming the federal government. It's not so simple that you
> can wave a vague accusation in any one direction to make it all go away.
>
> I have no doubt there are legitimate lawsuits to be filed. I have no
> doubt frivolous lawsuits will also be filed. And for the latter, more
> blame is due. But any legit cases cannot be dismissed just because of
> the frivolous ones.
>
> Like the physical cleanup itself, the legal cleanup will be another
> complex mess that has to be picked through piece by piece.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>
> Dedric Terry wrote:
>> Justice? 3 quad isn't justice, it's spiteful vengeance.
>>
>> There is a lot that happens in life that isn't fair and no human being
>> has any control over.
>> We can't sue everytime there isn't someone there to make everything okay
>> for us. Sure, there were bad situations, in New Orleans but there have
>> been a lot of similar or worse situations in smaller scales that no one
>> even blinks an eye at, or files a lawsuit for.
>> People like this would never survive a real national disaster where the
>> whole economic, communications and/or transportation system collapsed.
>>
>> "mike r" <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:47880f7f$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Ridiculous numbers, yeah, probably in some cases. And, yeah, lawyers must
>>> have swarmed to the occasion. And oh yeah, Katrina was one hell of an Act
>>> of God. However, while I don't have a strong set of data or facts to rely
>>> on, I think the debacles at the convention center and superdome are facts
>>> enough: lots of folks, state and federal, screwed up. Other than
>>> lawsuits,
>>> I'm not sure what other ways folks can pursue justice.
>>> MR
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_re_us/katrina_floo d_lawsuits
>>>>
>>>> The ultimate in lawsuit insanity.
>>>>
>>>> The people of the US should sue these individuals and their lawyers for
>>> the
>>>> cost of our tax dollars wasted in these ridiculous lawsuits. That
>>>> amount
>>>> alone could likely have built them all nice homes wherever they want to
>>>> live.
>>>>
>>>
>>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94615 is a reply to message #94605] |
Fri, 11 January 2008 22:25 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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On 12/1/08 12:53 PM, in article 47880f7f$1@linux, "mike r"
<emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Ridiculous numbers, yeah, probably in some cases. And, yeah, lawyers must
> have swarmed to the occasion. And oh yeah, Katrina was one hell of an Act
> of God. However, while I don't have a strong set of data or facts to rely
> on, I think the debacles at the convention center and superdome are facts
> enough: lots of folks, state and federal, screwed up. Other than lawsuits,
> I'm not sure what other ways folks can pursue justice.
> MR
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_re_us/katrina_floo d_lawsuits
>>
>> The ultimate in lawsuit insanity.
>>
>> The people of the US should sue these individuals and their lawyers for
> the
>> cost of our tax dollars wasted in these ridiculous lawsuits. That amount
>> alone could likely have built them all nice homes wherever they want to
>> live.
>>
>
This is all very boring guys, for us non US types.
Martin H
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94617 is a reply to message #94614] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 06:58 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Dedric Terry wrote:
> I haven't researched it fully yet, but based on that article - that's the
> sum total of 247 plaintiffs filing for $1B, and one for $1 Quadrillion.
> There are 489,000 total lawsuits, but they will be marred by the 248 or so
> that are beyond reality. Legitimate cases may very well get lost in the
> noise of greed of these 248. The public outcry over the amounts will surely
> put the complete legal basis for the suits into question. Not really a
> smart move - jeopardizing 489,000 for the sake of 1 (plus 247).
I'm gonna disagree about that. One lawsuit doesn't mar another, legally
speaking. The courts will sort it out. That's their job.
The only marring is in the court of public opinion, where those folks
who desperately want to believe revisionist history (slanted in whatever
direction that takes) will glom onto whatever seems to support their
preselected notion of what happened, and ignore the rest.
> I am guessing they would have to prove that the actions, or inaction of
> government at the local level (if not a defendant) did nothing to hinder or
> delay the response of the federal government, and the federal government was
> in fact directly responsible for suffering of these people either by lack of
> enacting guaranteed services, or by knowingly causing harm - that's a hard
> sell in any court imho. Since the Army Corps of Engineers has already been
> found to be in the clear (the levees would have been useless in a direct
> hit), these people may have a really hard time proving their case. Suing
> anyone over the aftermath of a natural disaster, that is in itself a
> complete unknown with no guarantees, is suspect at best.
I don't know the details of any of the lawsuits but you could be right.
It may be the net result of such lawsuits would only be to bring more
evidence into view rather than to trigger any large payouts. Evidence
which may help with planning for the next disaster.
> If this were to win at any level, then the door would be open for people to
> sue the Coast Guard for not rescuing an overturned vessel's crew fast
> enough.
IANAL but I think there is general government immunity for that sort of
thing. But any cases of actual gross incompetence or dereliction ought
to at least be examined and learned from, if they happen.
> It will in all likelihood instigate a move for people living in
> disaster prone areas to sign a federal and state document absolving the
> government of responsibility for such a habitation choice.
If that's true, the fed and state govs would be smart to get that
signature from everyone. There is no risk free place.
> Since people
> have made it about a ridiculous amount of money, now the various authorities
> will have to protect themselves - same as McDonald's "Coffee may be hot"
> warning on a the side of a cup of coffee that one would be irate if it were
> not actually hot.
We'll see. Can I get you some luke-warm coffee, in the padded sippie
cup? :^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Dedric
>
> On 1/11/08 9:07 PM, in article 47883db0@linux, "Jamie K"
> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know who is planning to sue and for what. But we DID have a real
>> national disaster down in Nawlins, at or near the top as disasters go
>> for the USA, and the ball was dropped over and over again before, during
>> and after.
>>
>> There is plenty of blame to go around at every step. Plenty of points of
>> failure. Finding blame in one place won't excuse other places from
>> blame. For example, you can't excuse the poor reaction of the federal
>> government by blaming local government, nor can you excuse unprepared
>> people by blaming the federal government. It's not so simple that you
>> can wave a vague accusation in any one direction to make it all go away.
>>
>> I have no doubt there are legitimate lawsuits to be filed. I have no
>> doubt frivolous lawsuits will also be filed. And for the latter, more
>> blame is due. But any legit cases cannot be dismissed just because of
>> the frivolous ones.
>>
>> Like the physical cleanup itself, the legal cleanup will be another
>> complex mess that has to be picked through piece by piece.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>>> Justice? 3 quad isn't justice, it's spiteful vengeance.
>>>
>>> There is a lot that happens in life that isn't fair and no human being
>>> has any control over.
>>> We can't sue everytime there isn't someone there to make everything okay
>>> for us. Sure, there were bad situations, in New Orleans but there have
>>> been a lot of similar or worse situations in smaller scales that no one
>>> even blinks an eye at, or files a lawsuit for.
>>> People like this would never survive a real national disaster where the
>>> whole economic, communications and/or transportation system collapsed.
>>>
>>> "mike r" <emarenot@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:47880f7f$1@linux...
>>>> Ridiculous numbers, yeah, probably in some cases. And, yeah, lawyers must
>>>> have swarmed to the occasion. And oh yeah, Katrina was one hell of an Act
>>>> of God. However, while I don't have a strong set of data or facts to rely
>>>> on, I think the debacles at the convention center and superdome are facts
>>>> enough: lots of folks, state and federal, screwed up. Other than
>>>> lawsuits,
>>>> I'm not sure what other ways folks can pursue justice.
>>>> MR
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_re_us/katrina_floo d_lawsuits
>>>>>
>>>>> The ultimate in lawsuit insanity.
>>>>>
>>>>> The people of the US should sue these individuals and their lawyers for
>>>> the
>>>>> cost of our tax dollars wasted in these ridiculous lawsuits. That
>>>>> amount
>>>>> alone could likely have built them all nice homes wherever they want to
>>>>> live.
>>>>>
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94620 is a reply to message #94617] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 12:03 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:4788d628@linux...
> Dedric Terry wrote:
> I'm gonna disagree about that. One lawsuit doesn't mar another, legally
> speaking. The courts will sort it out. That's their job.
Of course - but care to take a guess as to how much tax money will go into
489,000 court cases? $100M? $300M? I was referring to public opinion, and
to some degree, given the numbers, how much more scrutinity may be put into
a defense that would set a precedent for other claims.
> The only marring is in the court of public opinion, where those folks who
> desperately want to believe revisionist history (slanted in whatever
> direction that takes) will glom onto whatever seems to support their
> preselected notion of what happened, and ignore the rest.
Not sure I follow a specific point here (other than public opinion marring -
yes, agreed, they've likely already tanked their sympathy card); but if the
revisionist history idea is that some plaintiffs may be using selective
memory to fuel their vengeance, and the absurdity of the numbers will jade
the public into forgetting any valid concerns, then I agree.
I still think suing anyone because your house was flooded in a major flood
zone with a near ground level water table, in the midst of a major hurricane
borders on a single digit IQ.
I just think personally looking at a levee next to my neighborhood with
water flowing above the level of my yard would run up a few common sense red
flags - somewhat similar to living below Mt. Kilauea (no one does afaik) and
watching lava flow past my house on a daily basis, wondering if I might have
chosen a little safer location to enhabit *before* the ground starts
shaking, instead of pointing toasty charcoal fingers after it's too late.
On that note, to prevent boring the rest of the ng, back to soldering
cables, discussing candidates with only 2 initials, and wondering what NAMM
and Mac World will bring. ;-)
Dedric
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94622 is a reply to message #94620] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 13:50 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Dedric Terry wrote:
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:4788d628@linux...
>> Dedric Terry wrote:
>
>> I'm gonna disagree about that. One lawsuit doesn't mar another,
>> legally speaking. The courts will sort it out. That's their job.
>
> Of course - but care to take a guess as to how much tax money will go
> into 489,000 court cases? $100M? $300M? I was referring to public
> opinion, and to some degree, given the numbers, how much more scrutinity
> may be put into a defense that would set a precedent for other claims.
>
>> The only marring is in the court of public opinion, where those folks
>> who desperately want to believe revisionist history (slanted in
>> whatever direction that takes) will glom onto whatever seems to
>> support their preselected notion of what happened, and ignore the rest.
>
> Not sure I follow a specific point here (other than public opinion
> marring - yes, agreed, they've likely already tanked their sympathy
> card); but if the revisionist history idea is that some plaintiffs may
> be using selective memory to fuel their vengeance, and the absurdity of
> the numbers will jade the public into forgetting any valid concerns,
> then I agree.
No, what I mean is that people like you and me and everyone else who
sits in armchair judgment of events like this will take what we hear and
filter it through our own confirmation biases.
So some of us hear the news from Nawlins and say, "look, lazy shiftless,
stupid people" and others will say "look, a huge failure of government
letting down those fine people," and others say other things. None of
which will be fully correct. Some of which will be mostly wrong.
I'm not singling us out personally, although we don't escape this human
trait. But I'm constantly astounded at how easily people are herded and
divided via the hooks of their confirmation biases.
Which is the working basis of deceptive PR, and of politically motivated
sleight of hand and obfuscation. By which I mean lying and pandering.
And smear campaigns. We are all, to an extent susceptible to those
approaches.
> I still think suing anyone because your house was flooded in a major
> flood zone with a near ground level water table, in the midst of a major
> hurricane borders on a single digit IQ.
So naturally these events will reaffirm your notions. But someone else
may come to another conclusion based on different knowledge of specifics
with a different, and also possibly legitimate, perspective. To me, it
depends on each case.
I can imagine specific situations in Nawlins where lawsuits might make
sense. And plenty of cases where they wouldn't. So I'm not ready to make
a blanket statement supporting or dismissing lawsuits there.
I do think government planning and preparation was negligent, slow and
mired in politics. I do think response was inadequate. I also think
individual planning, preparation and response is open to criticism. So
like I said earlier, there's plenty of blame to go around, but pointing
the finger one way doesn't necessarily excuse other screw ups.
> I just think personally looking at a levee next to my neighborhood with
> water flowing above the level of my yard would run up a few common sense
> red flags - somewhat similar to living below Mt. Kilauea (no one does
> afaik) and watching lava flow past my house on a daily basis, wondering
> if I might have chosen a little safer location to enhabit *before* the
> ground starts shaking, instead of pointing toasty charcoal fingers after
> it's too late.
Probably you wouldn't have been buried at Pompei, had you lived back
then. :^)
> On that note, to prevent boring the rest of the ng, back to soldering
> cables, discussing candidates with only 2 initials, and wondering what
> NAMM and Mac World will bring. ;-)
I vote for a new laptop for Jamie! :^) And it would be nice if NAMM
brings more MIDI/USB keyboard controller choices...
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Dedric
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94623 is a reply to message #94622] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 14:13 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
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"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:478936af@linux...
> No, what I mean is that people like you and me and everyone else who sits
> in armchair judgment of events like this will take what we hear and filter
> it through our own confirmation biases.
But it's pretty easy to put 3 quadrillion and lawsuit together and reach a
rather
objective conclusion, and that was my whole point, not judging each of the
489,000
others. :-)
And, you have to admit, we are a litigation-crazed society, and that speaks
to a lack
of personal ethics, responsibility in general, simply confirmed at least in
one case of a zeros-happy
plaintiff. If these people win even far lesser awards, they will be far
better off than they were.
And the lesson here?....if life deals you a bad lemon, sue, and you could
get a Rolls Royce in return.
So why work hard, carry your own load, and help those around you? Just look
for an excuse to take the easy road -
the one through "the system".
Not a good model for building a sense of community where we wouldn't even
really need the government
to step in and carry the load for disaster aid (but it is there, and more
effective than it was, just in case) - in fact, usually volunteer agencies,
Red Cross, etc do a significant portion of the aftermath aid in those
situations. I've been on a few tornado cleanup
crews back east - it's pretty amazing how high average people will rise to
such an occasion, but that never
makes the news, because it's the boring, basic, truth - no scandel, no hype,
just people living like
caring human beings. I vote for more of that and fewer lawsuits and news
hype in general.
> I vote for a new laptop for Jamie! :^) And it would be nice if NAMM
> brings more MIDI/USB keyboard controller choices...
I vote for that as well. ;-))
Regards,
Dedric
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>> Dedric
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94624 is a reply to message #94623] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 15:50 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dedric Terry wrote:
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:478936af@linux...
>> No, what I mean is that people like you and me and everyone else who
>> sits in armchair judgment of events like this will take what we hear
>> and filter it through our own confirmation biases.
>
> But it's pretty easy to put 3 quadrillion and lawsuit together and reach
> a rather
> objective conclusion, and that was my whole point, not judging each of
> the 489,000
> others. :-)
OK.
A number like that sounds to me like an attempt to get publicity.
> And, you have to admit, we are a litigation-crazed society, and that
> speaks to a lack
> of personal ethics, responsibility in general, simply confirmed at least
> in one case of a zeros-happy
> plaintiff. If these people win even far lesser awards, they will be far
> better off than they were.
"Litigation crazed" - what's a normal level?
I agree that ethics and responsibility could be improved, in general, in
our fine society.
So consider this: better ethics and responsibility might have improved
the government's performance in all phases of planning, preparation and
response. Now, after the fact, it's possible that specific lawsuits
addressing the failures might improve the ethics and responsibility of
government in the future. Just to shine your light in a different direction.
> And the lesson here?....if life deals you a bad lemon, sue, and you
> could get a Rolls Royce in return.
That could be the motivation for some folks.
> So why work hard, carry your own load, and help those around you? Just
> look for an excuse to take the easy road -
> the one through "the system".
Nah, too much work. ;^)
> Not a good model for building a sense of community where we wouldn't
> even really need the government
> to step in and carry the load for disaster aid (but it is there, and
> more effective than it was, just in case) - in fact, usually volunteer
> agencies, Red Cross, etc do a significant portion of the aftermath aid
> in those situations. I've been on a few tornado cleanup
> crews back east - it's pretty amazing how high average people will rise
> to such an occasion, but that never
> makes the news, because it's the boring, basic, truth - no scandel, no
> hype, just people living like
> caring human beings. I vote for more of that and fewer lawsuits and
> news hype in general.
It does make the news, I've seen stories about volunteer efforts in
disasters. I specifically remember stories about that after Katrina.
Kudos to all involved in those efforts.
But in general I think you're right about fewer lawsuits being better
because it would indicate people being more responsible on all ends of
the equation, and people getting along better.
Sense of community: Yes. I don't think this idea necessarily excludes
government since good government flows from a sense of community, being
inclusive of the entire community. But it doesn't have to always include
government, people can organize in many ways.
News hype is an interesting topic in and of itself. Many of the same
people who complain about "the media" being biased actively seek out
blatantly non-objective sources of news and commentary to reassure their
own confirmation biases. It's ironic.
>> I vote for a new laptop for Jamie! :^) And it would be nice if NAMM
>> brings more MIDI/USB keyboard controller choices...
>
> I vote for that as well. ;-))
Woo! :^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Regards,
> Dedric
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>> Dedric
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94626 is a reply to message #94624] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 16:52 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 1/12/08 4:50 PM, in article 478952da$1@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
> "Litigation crazed" - what's a normal level?
>
Ah, the devil's advocate argument - if there's an opinion, there's a
rebuttal eh? ;-))
> I agree that ethics and responsibility could be improved, in general, in
> our fine society.
>
> So consider this: better ethics and responsibility might have improved
> the government's performance in all phases of planning, preparation and
> response. Now, after the fact, it's possible that specific lawsuits
> addressing the failures might improve the ethics and responsibility of
> government in the future. Just to shine your light in a different direction.
>
I never said I wasn't implying both citizens and the government as an
entity. :-) But consider this...people make up government. It is not a
separate entity of beings called "them" or "they" that reside in a different
dimension playing by different laws of physics and at constant odds with the
beings in this dimension known as our country. Better ethics,
responsibility, integrity, and honesty in general means better people in
office too (it goes a little deeper than just those qualities, but that's
enough for now). New Orleans and Louisiana would do well to consider the
less than stellar performance of their own elected officials - just so we
aren't laying blame anywhere in particular and considering both sides,
without committing to either one.... ;-))
>
> News hype is an interesting topic in and of itself. Many of the same
> people who complain about "the media" being biased actively seek out
> blatantly non-objective sources of news and commentary to reassure their
> own confirmation biases. It's ironic.
>
Sure, but how does that apply to our roles in this conversation? A
generalization perhaps? But isn't that an assumption made without really
knowing both sides of the equation, or any individual's thought process?
The same concept applies as above - better ethics, responsibility,
integrity, honesty, etc... there are people working in the news industry as
well, most with at least some power to decide how to report a story.
Dedric
I'm guessing Korg might be building a new keyboard line on the M3 - since
that's basically what some of their website lit says. Don't know if we'll
see any derivatives at NAMM, but it's possible.
>
>>> I vote for a new laptop for Jamie! :^) And it would be nice if NAMM
>>> brings more MIDI/USB keyboard controller choices...
>>
>> I vote for that as well. ;-))
>
> Woo! :^)
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dedric
>>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94629 is a reply to message #94626] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 17:50 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dedric Terry wrote:
> On 1/12/08 4:50 PM, in article 478952da$1@linux, "Jamie K"
> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>> "Litigation crazed" - what's a normal level?
>>
> Ah, the devil's advocate argument - if there's an opinion, there's a
> rebuttal eh? ;-))
No, you're completely wrong about that. ;^)
But actually, the idea of how much litigation is the right amount is an
interesting question. I'd say zero, ideally, but to get there we need
some improvements in behaviors that may take litigation to accomplish... :^)
>> I agree that ethics and responsibility could be improved, in general, in
>> our fine society.
>>
>> So consider this: better ethics and responsibility might have improved
>> the government's performance in all phases of planning, preparation and
>> response. Now, after the fact, it's possible that specific lawsuits
>> addressing the failures might improve the ethics and responsibility of
>> government in the future. Just to shine your light in a different direction.
>>
> I never said I wasn't implying both citizens and the government as an
> entity. :-) But consider this...people make up government. It is not a
> separate entity of beings called "them" or "they" that reside in a different
> dimension playing by different laws of physics and at constant odds with the
> beings in this dimension known as our country.
Yep, I think you're restating what I thought I was saying. :^)
> Better ethics,
> responsibility, integrity, and honesty in general means better people in
> office too (it goes a little deeper than just those qualities, but that's
> enough for now). New Orleans and Louisiana would do well to consider the
> less than stellar performance of their own elected officials - just so we
> aren't laying blame anywhere in particular
Right, and the fed government, too. More integrity, honesty, ethics and
responsibility for all.
and considering both sides,
> without committing to either one.... ;-))
:^)
There's a difference, though, between commitment and jumping to
conclusions that merely support existing outlooks.
Also, there are usually more than two sides to anything.
And even when only two people are involved, there's one side, the other
side and the truth.
At any rate, blame will be figured out by the courts. That's what
they're for. I'll bet some of these Nawlins lawsuits don't go very far,
and some of them do. Then I'll bet that the ones that don't will be
heralded by those who think they're all groundless, and the ones that do
will be heralded by those who think they're all valid, and no one will
have to go through the bother of changing their mind about their initial
reaction to lawsuits over Katrina.
>> News hype is an interesting topic in and of itself. Many of the same
>> people who complain about "the media" being biased actively seek out
>> blatantly non-objective sources of news and commentary to reassure their
>> own confirmation biases. It's ironic.
>>
> Sure, but how does that apply to our roles in this conversation? A
> generalization perhaps? But isn't that an assumption made without really
> knowing both sides of the equation, or any individual's thought process?
It wasn't directed at our roles in this conversation, just a general
observation.
> The same concept applies as above - better ethics, responsibility,
> integrity, honesty, etc... there are people working in the news industry as
> well, most with at least some power to decide how to report a story.
Sure. Ethics everywhere.
Real journalists take it seriously:
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
> Dedric
>
> I'm guessing Korg might be building a new keyboard line on the M3 - since
> that's basically what some of their website lit says. Don't know if we'll
> see any derivatives at NAMM, but it's possible.
Interesting. There have also been pre-announcements of a couple of new
toys I've been looking forward to: a new electronic drum kit from Yamaha
and another one coming from the original developers of the DDrum. From
what I've seen so far, though, it looks like both are short of the
features I had hoped for. But I'll withhold final judgment until I have
more of a chance to hear them and hopefully play them.
Three days to laptopville!
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>> I vote for a new laptop for Jamie! :^) And it would be nice if NAMM
>>>> brings more MIDI/USB keyboard controller choices...
>>> I vote for that as well. ;-))
>> Woo! :^)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dedric
>
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| Re: OT: 3 Quadrillion [message #94631 is a reply to message #94629] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 19:08 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 1/12/08 6:50 PM, in article 47896ef5@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> But actually, the idea of how much litigation is the right amount is an
> interesting question. I'd say zero, ideally, but to get there we need
> some improvements in behaviors that may take litigation to accomplish... :^)
I hear you on that, and ditto. Maybe we should consider something besides
litigation to get there... perhaps a little ole fashioned butt kicking? ;-)
Just kidding of course.... then again.... hmmm....
>
>
> Yep, I think you're restating what I thought I was saying. :^)
No actually I think you are restating what I was saying you were saying.
;-)) or something like that. lol
> Interesting. There have also been pre-announcements of a couple of new
> toys I've been looking forward to: a new electronic drum kit from Yamaha
> and another one coming from the original developers of the DDrum. From
> what I've seen so far, though, it looks like both are short of the
> features I had hoped for. But I'll withhold final judgment until I have
> more of a chance to hear them and hopefully play them.
>
> Three days to laptopville!
Nice. I'm hoping it won't be the potential 8-12 months before we see PC
support for the Euphonix. Maybe NAMM will bring more encouraging info along
those lines.
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>>>>> I vote for a new laptop for Jamie! :^) And it would be nice if NAMM
>>>>> brings more MIDI/USB keyboard controller choices...
>>>> I vote for that as well. ;-))
>>> Woo! :^)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dedric
>>
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