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Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » Free for all for illegal immigrants!
Re: Free for all for illegal immigrants! [message #84744 is a reply to message #84736] Thu, 17 May 2007 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Jamie K is currently offline  Jamie K   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
Senior Member
I agree that the immigration system is broken.

So now that we have millions of illegal immigrants here, what does it
cost to support them. IOW, subtract the costs you can attribute to
having them here from the taxes they pay and economic growth they
sustain. What's the difference and is it positive or negative?

What would deportation of millions of people cost? What would that do to
the economy? Real estate prices? Existing business that hire them?
Including the US military? What are all the unintended costs?

How long a fence do you want to build? What would a manned xx mile fence
cost to build? To operate per year?

Given all that and whatever I forgot, what is the sum total of the costs
of your plan? I assume we're talking billions here, at least. Is it the
best way to invest that money?

Also, how safe is your plan? Will lives be saved or lost, overall,
compared to other alternatives?

I'm not saying you're wrong or right, I just want to know the facts
behind your plan in order to evaluate it. As adamant as you are on this
issue, I figure you've already gathered the specific data to support the
generalizations.

Then we can better compare it to the bipartisan Senate plan. BTW, one of
the elements of the Senate plan is to weigh citizenship eligibility
toward skills and education rather than family connections. I don't know
if this specifically addresses your "baby" loophole, but it might.

I don't want to be glib about any of this, BTW, it's not an easy problem
from any angle.

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com


James McCloskey wrote:
> Why should they be rewarded? They broke in to our country. They gain citizenship
> by having babies in our country, we get stuck with the bill. They use loop
> holes and under the table employment to stay. They are being aided by our
> government and they take our jobs! They've got to go.
>
> "These People" are anybody that is in our country illegally. I have to follow
> laws, you have to follow laws, and they get rewarded for breaking our laws???
>
>
> They need to be deported, and we need a fence and enough americans watch
> our borders to keep them out. It will cost less than supporting them. There
> are many americans that would volunteer to guard the boarders.
>
> These people can still apply for citizenship legally.
>
>
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>> What in the world makes you think that suddenly these people are going
> to
>>> start going by the rules now? They didn't go by the rules to begin with!
>> This plan seems to offer citizenship as a reward if they go by the new
>> rules. As I said, I don't know if this is the best approach.
>> Generalizations aside, what specific data do you have to support your
>> criticism?
>>
>> I'm not going to generalize about "these people" since we're talking
>> about a diverse group including many who weren't here during earlier times.
>>
>>
>>> It's time to take this seriously.
>> Sure. What do you propose?
>>
>> what is your alternative solution? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>> From the article:
>>>> "The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward
>
>>>> and obtain a "Z visa" and - after paying fees and a $5,000 fine -
>>>> ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take
>>>> between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to
>
>>>> their home countries first."
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if this is the best approach, but it's not exactly a "free
>>>> for all" as you claim. There are millions of illegal immigrants
>>>> currently living and working in the USA. This plan proposes to charge
>
>>>> them billions of dollars to have a chance to stay here legally.
>>>>
>>>> Many of them already have social security and taxes withheld, and of
>
>>>> course they also pay sales taxes in states that charge sales tax. I
>>>> don't know if the statistics will support your implication of an overall
>>>> negative economic effect, but I doubt it. I suspect it's more likely
> to
>>>> be a positive effect to have those additional working taxpayers pushing
>>>> productivity in the USA. OTOH, the jobs argument does have some merit.
>>>>
>>>> What's your solution, James? And what is the cost of your solution?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>> Agreement Reached on Immigration Reform
>>>>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070517/D8P69IO00.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time Washington hears us all loud and clear. It's time to call
> and
>>>>> write your representatives. It's nothing more than amnesty for law
> breakers.
>>>>> These illegals that are in our country are sponging off our welfare
> systems,
>>>>> collecting benefits, they didn't even pay in to, and costing you in
> tax
>>> dollars.
>>>>> The politicians want to pass laws to give the illegals your social
> security
>>>>> benefits. They didn't even pay in to social security. Some of these
>>> people
>>>>> come in to our country just to be able to collect benefits and send
> the
>>> money
>>>>> back to their home lands. In some cases this money has reached terrorist.
>>>>> Our politicians are selling us all out again and giving your country
> way
>>>>> at a vary high cost to you! None of us owe these people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Illegals are costing all of us. Illegals sponging off our tax dollars,
>>> and
>>>>> having our cost of living go up as a result of hospitalization cost,
> schooling,
>>>>> law enforcement costs, housing cost, etc. It's no different than having
>>>>> a bunch of them break in to your house and eat your food, run your telephone
>>>>> bill up, run your rent up, and spend your money. These people have
> broken
>>>>> in to our country. They don't have a right to citizenship. They have
>>> a
>>>>> right to be deported. We need to push this invasion of our country
> back
>>>>> now, and we have a right to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are many of the illegals come in to our country because they are
>>> criminals
>>>>> and can't come in to our country legally. With others, we have no access
>>>>> to their past criminal records. yet they are in our country, and take
>>> our
>>>>> jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> We already have legal immigration, why should we change our law to accommodate
>>>>> a bunch of law breakers? People are out of work here in the US, letting
>>>>> a bunch of people flood in to our country and take our jobs is hurting
>>> us.
>>>>> It brings wages down.
>>>>>
>>>>> This idiot president says nobody wants those jobs. Nobody wants those
>>> jobs
>>>>> because they don't pay well, and they don't pay well because we have
> illegal
>>>>> immigrants working those jobs for next to nothing. Nobody is going
> to
>>> pay
>>>>> $12.00 to $20.00 an hour if they can get an illegal for $5.00 or $6.00
>>> an
>>>>> hour and not have to pay taxes and benefits. It's nice for the president
>>>>> and his buddies to have Cooks, nannies, gardeners, landscapers, clothes
>>> launders,
>>>>> fruit pickers, and ranch hands for cheap. How many of you have people
>>> like
>>>>> that working for you cheap? Do you have a ranch hand? It's nice for
>>> the
>>>>> president, the Kennedy's and the Heinz family, but it's cheating WE
> THE
>>> PEOPLE
>>>>> out of what our parents worked so hard for. It's now a free for all
> for
>>>>> foreigners. They are selling us out, giving it all away at our expense
>>> and
>>>>> stealing our American Dream. Enough is enough!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time the people that were born here have a say. It's time the
> people
>>>>> that were born here have first rights. It's time people and there families
>>>>> that have payed in to the taxes for years get some support when they
> are
>>>>> out of work instead of the foreigners that don't belong here. The illegals
>>>>> are sucking up the aid and resources. They are pouring in to our country
>>>>> by the millions, and there is no end in sight. They are a huge burden
>>> on
>>>>> all of us. It has nearly bankrupted some states. We need to get this
>>> stopped,
>>>>> not hand them citizenship. We are going to have a huge flood of people
>>> trying
>>>>> to cross our borders if they reward them with citizenship. With that
>>> will
>>>>> come terrorists.
>>>>>
>>>>> These politicians are selling us all out for their own selfish political
>>>>> gain. They are selling off the wealth of the US wholesale to the rest
>>> of
>>>>> the world. They are letting the third world flood in to our country.
>>> It
>>>>> is killing the middle class. It is creating the haves and the have
> nots.
>>>>> This has been planned for years by the members of the Trilateral Commission,
>>>>> The world banks and the CFR. They are intentionally lowering our standard
>>>>> of living. Their goal is that the elite rich will rule all of us economically.
>>>>> They want to rule the world.
>>>>>
>>>>> Were hearing that huge sucking sound here in Michigan. As the auto
> industry
>>>>> goes, so does the whole country. In time it will catch up to your state
>>>>> too. We have around 12% unemployment in my part of Michigan. It's
> great
>>>>> that you can buy a two dollar rubber hammer from China, but we are paying
>>>>> $3.30 plus a gallon for gas. Who thinks this is smart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Soon you wont have a choice, you will only be able to buy a Cadillac
> that
>>>>> is made in China. Everything will be made somewhere else before you
> know
>>>>> it. We have unfair trade that is killing manufacturing here in the
> US.
>>>>> Who do you think made those deals? Who do you think sold us out? The
>>> answer
>>>>> is the idiot politicians we keep voting in to office. As long as the
>>> two
>>>>> parties keep pointing fingers at each other, they will keep us divided,
>>> and
>>>>> weak! This is how they stay in power! We are being sold out by them
>>> right
>>>>> now. It's time to tell them not to support this bad policy of giving
>>> illegals
>>>>> citizenship. It's time to tell them, that they will be in the unemployment
>>>>> line if they make this law.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to put a moratorium on immigration until we can get control
> of
>>> it.
>>>>> Somebody said that in 1991-92, but nobody listened. We got 911 as a
> result
>>>>> of week policies on immigration. When will we wake up to the truth?
>
>>> A hand
>>>>> full of British sailors supposedly cross in to Iranian waters and it's
>>> a
>>>>> international incident. Tens of thousands illegally cross our borders
>>> a
>>>>> day and nothing is really done about it. Some people need to get fired
>>> from
>>>>> their jobs, but we just keep voting these people back in to to office
>>> to
>>>>> sell us out.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to put unemployed americans back to work. We need to put unemployed
>>>>> Americans on our borders to guard us. We need to put unemployed americans
>>>>> to work at our sea ports to check shipping containers, and charge the
>>> Chinese
>>>>> for this service. I'm tired of hearing that we don't have enough people
>>>>> to handle these kind of problems or tasks. We need to put more americans
>>>>> to work at our air ports to handle security. There is plenty of work
>>> that
>>>>> would pay a decent wage if we kicked the illegals out of our country.
>>> No
>>>>> more cheap labor for big corporations at all of our expense.
>>>>>
>>>>> These illegal immigrants they want to make citizens will sway entire
> states
>>>>> and parts of the country in future elections. This amnesty will create
>>> a
>>>>> huge voting block. These people will rule our country in a short time.
>>>>> It would be like adding another state that would always be the deciding
>>> vote
>>>>> in every election in the future. It's a risk we shouldn't take. The
>>> majority
>>>>> of them have come from countries that have corrupt governments. Why
> do
>>> you
>>>>> think they can never get it together in their countries? I believe
> we
>>> would
>>>>> end up with the same kind of corrupt government in time if we allow
> them
>>>>> to become citizens. We don't owe these people a free ride.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time to speak up now or be bulldozed under. Call or write your
> representatives.
>>>>> I strongly urge you to take the time now to contact your representative
>>>>> about this issue. The American dream and your standard of living are
>>> about
>>>>> to be given away buy the politicians. Let them know who will be in
> the
>>> unemployment
>>>>> line next if they do this. The future of America depends on you now.
>>> It's
>>>>> time to get this stopped! We need to end this free for all here in
> america
>>>>> that these politicians have created. Don't let them sell us out!
>

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