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OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59122] Sat, 15 October 2005 15:59 Go to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
eps staring at me from the corner of my control room.
>
> I keep wonderiing if I should be tracking drums and bass on it then
bouncing
> in to Paris..
>
> Is anyone else doing that here?
>
> My problem is my old board is gone. I would need to use Paris as a monitor
> portion of a console. I think I'd need to send my pre amps in to tape,
open
> a Paris project and send the outs of the tape machine there, and send that
> to the musicians as a monitor, I wonder if there will be too much latency
> and it would screw with perfomances. It seems like this should work
though.
>
> Then right after the take, roll it back, hit record on paris, and play the
> tape into paris.
>
> Rewind and record over that take for the next song.
>
> Does this sound like it's worth the effort?Yeah, I wont really need to lock to Paris especially if I track a click to
the tape machine then use the same click in Paris I can visualy line up the
tracks to the
Re: OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59125 is a reply to message #59122] Sat, 15 October 2005 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Harrington is currently offline  Martin Harrington   AUSTRALIA
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
need to send my pre amps in to tape,
>open
>> a Paris project and send the outs of the tape machine there, and send
that
>> to the musicians as a monitor, I wonder if there will be too much latency
>> and it would screw with perfomances. It seems like this should work
>though.
>>
>> Then right after the take, roll it back, hit record on paris, and play
the
>> tape into paris.
>>
>> Rewind and record over that take for the next song.
>>
>> Does this sound like it's worth the effort?
>
>I usually kept the tape and dumped the the tracks back in at final mixdown,
aligning them with the original tracks and then deleting the original tracks
if I liked the tracks that were recorded to tape better. In this scenario,
you've got options and that is what using the deck is all about. Just the
circuitry is sometimes enough and just running the signals through the tape
recorder, along with Paris' inherent ability to saturate was often
preferable. A lot depended on what type of signal processing I was using on
other instruments. It was a win-win situation either way.

;o)

"cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote in message news:43527b2f$1@linux...
>
> Yeah, I wont really need to lock to Paris especially if I track a click to
> the tape machine then use the same click i
Re: OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59128 is a reply to message #59122] Sun, 16 October 2005 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deej [1] is currently offline  Deej [1]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
Senior Member
>> I keep wonderiing if I should be tracking drums and bass on it then
> >bouncing
> >> in to Paris..
> >>
> >> Is anyone else doing that here?
> >>
> >> My problem is my old board is gone. I would need to use Paris as a
monitor
> >> portion of a console. I think I'd need to send my pre amps in to tape,
> >open
> >> a Paris project and send the outs of the tape machine there, and send
> that
> >> to the musicians as a monitor, I wonder if there will be too much
latency
> >> and it would screw with perfomances. It seems like this should work
> >though.
> >>
> >> Then right after the take, roll it back, hit record on paris, and play
> the
> >> tape into paris.
> >>
> >> Rewind and record over that take for the next song.
> >>
> >> Does this sound like it's worth the effort?
> >
> >
>Howdy,

If you use the repro heads, the sound will go straight on-off tape with
very little time delay. You can use one tape for an entire album this way.
The repro heads stripe to tape, and send back to monitor post tape.

Cheers


"cujo" <chris@applema
Re: OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59149 is a reply to message #59125] Sun, 16 October 2005 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Sound)" <audioguy_nospam_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>This is actually incorrect. On a 3 head R-R machine, the
>>Sel/Sync head (record head) and the Repro head (playback
>>head) will produce different results. If you try to record
>>to tape then play back with the Repro head, you *will* have
>>a very noticeable delay based on tape speed and
Re: OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59155 is a reply to message #59149] Sun, 16 October 2005 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Harrington is currently offline  Martin Harrington   AUSTRALIA
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
on to get it transfered as soon
> as possible.
>
> Regarding the Portico... I still don't see how having a tape
> head circuit in the audio path would emulate the tape
> transfer characteristics of "actual tape". I would love to
> sit down with Rupert and discuss how he gets it to do this! :-)
>
> David.
>
> gene lennon wrote:
> > "W. Mark Wilson" <wmarkwilson@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>I've read numerous times that tape holds it's broadest freq and dynamics
> >
> > for
> >
> >>about 5 seconds and that after 30 seconds, given a means of audible
> >>comparison, there is a noticeable difference. I hav
Re: OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59156 is a reply to message #59155] Sun, 16 October 2005 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Neil is currently offline  Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
e never had the
> >>opportunity to run a test but always assumed, based on the profile of
the
> >
> >
> >>writers who espouse this notion, that this aspect of tape was accurately
> >
> >
> >>represented. Given a chance, I would lunge, not walk, at an opportunity
> >
> > to
> >
> >>test this.
> >>
> >>Dubya
> >>
> >
> > I think this may be true to an almost immeasurable degree, but it is
also
> > true that analog alignment tapes were rated to hold plus or minus one
tenth
> > of one db accuracy for 5 years or 1000 plays over the full audio
spectrum,
> > and most Ampex alignment tapes were recorded on standard Ampex 206 tape.
> >
> > Generally I would start hearing 256 (my normal first choice) become dull
> > only after hundreds of passes. There is no arguing that this is one area
> > where digital is vastly superior.
> > Gene
> >"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_nospam_@shaw.ca> wrote:
>Test tapes were recorded at low levels (185-200nWB) on low
>print tape for this exact reason... to maintain frequency
>response over time. Taking a roll of 250 or 456 to the edge
>of its retentivity will produce significant print in just 1
>day. The finer domains will easily realign to this higher
>level changing the frequency response of the recorded
>material... hence my suggestion to get it transfered as soon
>as possible.
>
>Regarding the Portico... I still don't see how having a tape
>head circuit in the audio path would emulate the tape
>transfer characteristics of "actual tape". I would love to
>sit down with Rupert and discuss how he gets it to do this! :-)
>
>David.
>

Well, we both agree about what happens to tape. We just disagree about how
muc
Re: OK all you DSP Experts... [message #59159 is a reply to message #59156] Sun, 16 October 2005 23:10 Go to previous message
Martin Harrington is currently offline  Martin Harrington   AUSTRALIA
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
Senior Member
rs to keep the "sheen" of the analog recording.
>>>Past that point the smallest domains self align as a result
>>>of print-through, eliminating the highest frequencies from
>>>the recording.
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
>>>Dave Parkin wrote:
>>>
>>>>Howdy,
>>>>
>>>> If you use the repro heads, the sound will go straight on-off tape
>>
>> with
>>
>>>>very little time delay. You can use one tape for an entire album this
>>
>> way.
>>
>>>>The repro heads stripe to tape, and send back to monitor post tape.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"cujo" <chris@applemanstudio.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, I wont really need to lock to Paris especially if I track a click
>>>>
>>>>to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the tape machine then use the same click in Paris I can visualy line
up
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>tracks to the click later. But in your method, if I undertand things
>>
>> correctly,
>>
>>>>>you would not have gotten "tape compression" as you were just getting
>>
>> the
>>
>>>>>electronic through put? Seems like you;d actually have to record. to
>>
>> get
>>
>>>>>the tape "sound" or am I wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I used to do this with a TEAC 80-8. I wish I still had it. Latency
isn't
>>>>>
>>>>>an
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>issue. The signal path through the components of the tape machine is
>>
>> faster
>>
>>>>>>than your A/D and D/A conversion so in all likelihood, you will have
>>
>> around
>>
>>>>&
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