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| Studio visit last night.... [message #70859] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 05:16  |
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brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
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Senior Member |
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I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well known.
Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite a
show.
I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep rerouting
because it was screwing up the takes.
Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments. There
didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just set
the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to observe.
I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just watched
never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn something.
The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric guitars, electric
bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with seinhiser
spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing them
to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though. They
were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with what
I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was disappointed
in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort spent
upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and I hardly
do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand percussion
last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were recording
without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play along
with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
b
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70864 is a reply to message #70862] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 09:31  |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
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I don't mean to be disrepectful to the engineer. I am envy his
experience.
I am not trying to say I am better than him or anything like that.
It's just it seems like in a way these guys aren't getting what they paid
for.
I guess when you don't know what you are supposed to be getting, which
is the case with this band, you just go with the flow and are afraid to
speak up.
These guys do not really know everything that goes into making a
"professional"
recording. They just want to play their parts and say "I felt good about
that take."
However, in the end they are going to leave with a sub par recording and not
really know why.
I don't know...I just expected more. Maybe I had the wrong impression to
begin with.
I just think the engineer should at least give some direction when he knows
these guys are
new to recording. When they ask his opinion on what would be the best course
to proceed
he just tells them "what ever you guys want." He doesn't give any direction
or pro's or
con's etc... I think that would be important info to give your customer.
Especially if
you want them to understand their results and come back again and again.
We will see how the rest of the project goes.
We are just tracking.
Maybe this guy will pull some kind of majic during the mixing and mastering.
B
--
Brandon Goodwin
Process Engineering
Pentech Assembly
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:44d36ca2$1@linux...
> There is a studio in this area that has been here for 20+ years and has
done
> work with just about every musician within 200 miles of here. I respect
> anyone who has been doing this kind of work and making a living at it for
> 20+ years and when we moved here I purposely did not undercut the prices
of
> this other studio. I felt that this would be wrong. It's a small town and
I
> was the new kid. As time passed and a few folks trickled through here I
made
> every effort to give them the best sound I could out of this studio. I
have
> heard comments from some oif them praising the extra effort I take as I am
> trying out different mics and mic placements. They don't seem to have been
> provided this elsewhere from what I can tell and are very happy and
> flattered by it. I don't know for sure because I'm not at the sessions at
> the other studio and quite frankly, I like the engineer at this studio and
> as I said, I respect his abilities because he has made a go of it. In any
> event, the clients have kept returning here of their own free will so I
> guess that's the bottom line. Pay attention to what they are doing in this
> other studio and learn what you can......then improve on it if you can.
>
> Deej
> "john" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:44d35cab$1@linux...
> >
> > That's cuz they are professionals !
> >
> > "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
known.
> > >Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite
a
> > >show.
> > >I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> > >It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> > >They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
> rerouting
> > >because it was screwing up the takes.
> > >Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
> There
> > >didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
set
> > >the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
> observe.
> > >I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
> watched
> > >never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
> something.
> > >The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric guitars,
> > electric
> > >bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
> seinhiser
> > >spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
them
> > >to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
> They
> > >were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with
> what
> > >I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
> disappointed
> > >in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
spent
> > >upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and I
> hardly
> > >do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
> percussion
> > >last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
> recording
> > >without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
> along
> > >with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> > >b
> >
>
>
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70865 is a reply to message #70864] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 09:37 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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|
>It's just it seems like in a way these guys aren't getting what they paid
for.<
This is the same impression that I got from my clients and it may well be
true. I'd say that if a client has prior studio experience (ie-has a point
of reference) and is unhappy with the current studio experience then the
client isn't getting his/her money's worth, unless,of course, the client
always sucked and is just looking for a geographic cure, in which case they
will suck anywhere they go anyway.
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d3751f$1@linux...
> I don't mean to be disrepectful to the engineer. I am envy his
> experience.
> I am not trying to say I am better than him or anything like that.
> It's just it seems like in a way these guys aren't getting what they paid
> for.
> I guess when you don't know what you are supposed to be getting, which
> is the case with this band, you just go with the flow and are afraid to
> speak up.
> These guys do not really know everything that goes into making a
> "professional"
> recording. They just want to play their parts and say "I felt good about
> that take."
> However, in the end they are going to leave with a sub par recording and
not
> really know why.
> I don't know...I just expected more. Maybe I had the wrong impression to
> begin with.
> I just think the engineer should at least give some direction when he
knows
> these guys are
> new to recording. When they ask his opinion on what would be the best
course
> to proceed
> he just tells them "what ever you guys want." He doesn't give any
direction
> or pro's or
> con's etc... I think that would be important info to give your customer.
> Especially if
> you want them to understand their results and come back again and again.
> We will see how the rest of the project goes.
> We are just tracking.
> Maybe this guy will pull some kind of majic during the mixing and
mastering.
> B
>
>
>
> --
> Brandon Goodwin
>
> Process Engineering
> Pentech Assembly
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:44d36ca2$1@linux...
> > There is a studio in this area that has been here for 20+ years and has
> done
> > work with just about every musician within 200 miles of here. I respect
> > anyone who has been doing this kind of work and making a living at it
for
> > 20+ years and when we moved here I purposely did not undercut the prices
> of
> > this other studio. I felt that this would be wrong. It's a small town
and
> I
> > was the new kid. As time passed and a few folks trickled through here I
> made
> > every effort to give them the best sound I could out of this studio. I
> have
> > heard comments from some oif them praising the extra effort I take as I
am
> > trying out different mics and mic placements. They don't seem to have
been
> > provided this elsewhere from what I can tell and are very happy and
> > flattered by it. I don't know for sure because I'm not at the sessions
at
> > the other studio and quite frankly, I like the engineer at this studio
and
> > as I said, I respect his abilities because he has made a go of it. In
any
> > event, the clients have kept returning here of their own free will so I
> > guess that's the bottom line. Pay attention to what they are doing in
this
> > other studio and learn what you can......then improve on it if you can.
> >
> > Deej
> > "john" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:44d35cab$1@linux...
> > >
> > > That's cuz they are professionals !
> > >
> > > "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
> known.
> > > >Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
quite
> a
> > > >show.
> > > >I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> > > >It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> > > >They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
> > rerouting
> > > >because it was screwing up the takes.
> > > >Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
> > There
> > > >didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
> set
> > > >the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
> > observe.
> > > >I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
> > watched
> > > >never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
> > something.
> > > >The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
guitars,
> > > electric
> > > >bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
> > seinhiser
> > > >spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
> them
> > > >to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
> > They
> > > >were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
with
> > what
> > > >I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
> > disappointed
> > > >in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
> spent
> > > >upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and
I
> > hardly
> > > >do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
> > percussion
> > > >last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
> > recording
> > > >without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
> > along
> > > >with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> > > >b
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70869 is a reply to message #70864] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 12:47 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Is this studio also hired as the producer of this project?
I certainly understand where you're coming from Brandon - however I don't
see it as the engineers fault if no one communicates what they need to him.
You guys need to talk this out a bit (especially if they feel like it's not
going to turn out right) - and, one of the best things you can do is take
some material to the engineer that you expect it to sound like.
best of luck,
-Carl
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d3751f$1@linux...
> I don't mean to be disrepectful to the engineer. I am envy his
> experience.
> I am not trying to say I am better than him or anything like that.
> It's just it seems like in a way these guys aren't getting what they paid
> for.
> I guess when you don't know what you are supposed to be getting, which
> is the case with this band, you just go with the flow and are afraid to
> speak up.
> These guys do not really know everything that goes into making a
> "professional"
> recording. They just want to play their parts and say "I felt good about
> that take."
> However, in the end they are going to leave with a sub par recording and
not
> really know why.
> I don't know...I just expected more. Maybe I had the wrong impression to
> begin with.
> I just think the engineer should at least give some direction when he
knows
> these guys are
> new to recording. When they ask his opinion on what would be the best
course
> to proceed
> he just tells them "what ever you guys want." He doesn't give any
direction
> or pro's or
> con's etc... I think that would be important info to give your customer.
> Especially if
> you want them to understand their results and come back again and again.
> We will see how the rest of the project goes.
> We are just tracking.
> Maybe this guy will pull some kind of majic during the mixing and
mastering.
> B
>
>
>
> --
> Brandon Goodwin
>
> Process Engineering
> Pentech Assembly
> "DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:44d36ca2$1@linux...
> > There is a studio in this area that has been here for 20+ years and has
> done
> > work with just about every musician within 200 miles of here. I respect
> > anyone who has been doing this kind of work and making a living at it
for
> > 20+ years and when we moved here I purposely did not undercut the prices
> of
> > this other studio. I felt that this would be wrong. It's a small town
and
> I
> > was the new kid. As time passed and a few folks trickled through here I
> made
> > every effort to give them the best sound I could out of this studio. I
> have
> > heard comments from some oif them praising the extra effort I take as I
am
> > trying out different mics and mic placements. They don't seem to have
been
> > provided this elsewhere from what I can tell and are very happy and
> > flattered by it. I don't know for sure because I'm not at the sessions
at
> > the other studio and quite frankly, I like the engineer at this studio
and
> > as I said, I respect his abilities because he has made a go of it. In
any
> > event, the clients have kept returning here of their own free will so I
> > guess that's the bottom line. Pay attention to what they are doing in
this
> > other studio and learn what you can......then improve on it if you can.
> >
> > Deej
> > "john" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:44d35cab$1@linux...
> > >
> > > That's cuz they are professionals !
> > >
> > > "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
> known.
> > > >Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
quite
> a
> > > >show.
> > > >I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> > > >It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> > > >They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
> > rerouting
> > > >because it was screwing up the takes.
> > > >Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
> > There
> > > >didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
> set
> > > >the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
> > observe.
> > > >I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
> > watched
> > > >never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
> > something.
> > > >The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
guitars,
> > > electric
> > > >bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
> > seinhiser
> > > >spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
> them
> > > >to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
> > They
> > > >were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
with
> > what
> > > >I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
> > disappointed
> > > >in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
> spent
> > > >upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and
I
> > hardly
> > > >do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
> > percussion
> > > >last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
> > recording
> > > >without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
> > along
> > > >with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> > > >b
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70873 is a reply to message #70872] |
Fri, 04 August 2006 20:44 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here that
need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel is
still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake pit
and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have some
more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the Demeter
in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can sub in
for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
;o)
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough time
to
> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on with
it,
> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
> --
> Martin Harrington
> www.lendanear-sound.com
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
> >
> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well known.
> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite a
> > show.
> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
> > rerouting
> > because it was screwing up the takes.
> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
> > There
> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just set
> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
> > observe.
> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
> > watched
> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
something.
> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric guitars,
> > electric
> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
> > seinhiser
> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
them
> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
They
> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with
> > what
> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
> > disappointed
> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort spent
> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and I
> > hardly
> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
percussion
> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
> > recording
> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
along
> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> > b
>
>
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70876 is a reply to message #70873] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 02:35 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
noise is gone.
On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
<animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here that
>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel is
>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake pit
>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have some
>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the Demeter
>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can sub in
>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>
>;o)
>
>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough time
>to
>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on with
>it,
>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>> --
>> Martin Harrington
>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>> >
>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well known.
>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite a
>> > show.
>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
>> > rerouting
>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>> > There
>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just set
>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
>> > observe.
>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>> > watched
>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>something.
>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric guitars,
>> > electric
>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>> > seinhiser
>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>them
>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>They
>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with
>> > what
>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>> > disappointed
>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort spent
>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and I
>> > hardly
>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>percussion
>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
>> > recording
>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>along
>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>> > b
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70879 is a reply to message #70876] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 10:23 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
so it's back
> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> noise is gone.
sounds awfully ground related man.
AA
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> noise is gone.
>
> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>
>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
>>that
>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel
>>is
>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake pit
>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
>>some
>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>>Demeter
>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can sub
>>in
>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>>
>>;o)
>>
>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
>>> time
>>to
>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on with
>>it,
>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>>> --
>>> Martin Harrington
>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>
>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>>> >
>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>>> > known.
>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite
>>> > a
>>> > show.
>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
>>> > rerouting
>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>>> > There
>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
>>> > set
>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
>>> > observe.
>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>>> > watched
>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>>something.
>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
>>> > guitars,
>>> > electric
>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>>> > seinhiser
>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>>them
>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>>They
>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with
>>> > what
>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>>> > disappointed
>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>>> > spent
>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and I
>>> > hardly
>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>>percussion
>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
>>> > recording
>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>>along
>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>>> > b
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70880 is a reply to message #70864] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 10:23 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Brandon,
Here's the point.. The Band is Lacking a Producer. A producer is the person
who has the "sonic" vision for a son, and keeps the studio session flowing
in the righ direction.
It is not a studio fault or the engineer if a customer comes and and says
that they want to record some songs. The engineer is doing is or her job
by getting the best signle flow he or she can. BUT, the engineer is not wired
into the talents head. So, he (engineer) cannot produce the song.
It's that simple.
Just like good mastering can help a good mix. A Producer can make a world
of difference to a band recording sessions.
LaMOnt
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> I don't mean to be disrepectful to the engineer. I am envy his
>experience.
>I am not trying to say I am better than him or anything like that.
>It's just it seems like in a way these guys aren't getting what they paid
>for.
>I guess when you don't know what you are supposed to be getting, which
>is the case with this band, you just go with the flow and are afraid to
>speak up.
>These guys do not really know everything that goes into making a
>"professional"
>recording. They just want to play their parts and say "I felt good about
>that take."
>However, in the end they are going to leave with a sub par recording and
not
>really know why.
>I don't know...I just expected more. Maybe I had the wrong impression to
>begin with.
>I just think the engineer should at least give some direction when he knows
>these guys are
>new to recording. When they ask his opinion on what would be the best course
>to proceed
>he just tells them "what ever you guys want." He doesn't give any direction
>or pro's or
>con's etc... I think that would be important info to give your customer.
>Especially if
>you want them to understand their results and come back again and again.
>We will see how the rest of the project goes.
>We are just tracking.
>Maybe this guy will pull some kind of majic during the mixing and mastering.
>B
>
>
>
>--
>Brandon Goodwin
>
>Process Engineering
>Pentech Assembly
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
>news:44d36ca2$1@linux...
>> There is a studio in this area that has been here for 20+ years and has
>done
>> work with just about every musician within 200 miles of here. I respect
>> anyone who has been doing this kind of work and making a living at it
for
>> 20+ years and when we moved here I purposely did not undercut the prices
>of
>> this other studio. I felt that this would be wrong. It's a small town
and
>I
>> was the new kid. As time passed and a few folks trickled through here
I
>made
>> every effort to give them the best sound I could out of this studio. I
>have
>> heard comments from some oif them praising the extra effort I take as
I am
>> trying out different mics and mic placements. They don't seem to have
been
>> provided this elsewhere from what I can tell and are very happy and
>> flattered by it. I don't know for sure because I'm not at the sessions
at
>> the other studio and quite frankly, I like the engineer at this studio
and
>> as I said, I respect his abilities because he has made a go of it. In
any
>> event, the clients have kept returning here of their own free will so
I
>> guess that's the bottom line. Pay attention to what they are doing in
this
>> other studio and learn what you can......then improve on it if you can.
>>
>> Deej
>> "john" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:44d35cab$1@linux...
>> >
>> > That's cuz they are professionals !
>> >
>> > "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>known.
>> > >Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite
>a
>> > >show.
>> > >I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>> > >It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>> > >They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
>> rerouting
>> > >because it was screwing up the takes.
>> > >Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>> There
>> > >didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
>set
>> > >the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
>> observe.
>> > >I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>> watched
>> > >never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>> something.
>> > >The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric guitars,
>> > electric
>> > >bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>> seinhiser
>> > >spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>them
>> > >to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>> They
>> > >were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with
>> what
>> > >I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>> disappointed
>> > >in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>spent
>> > >upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and
I
>> hardly
>> > >do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>> percussion
>> > >last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
>> recording
>> > >without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>> along
>> > >with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>> > >b
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70888 is a reply to message #70879] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 21:08 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yes I can understand what you guys are saying.
I told the guitarist to ask the engineer what exactly his role was to be
as it was defined by the band member(percusionist)
that set up the service. The engineer was not hired as a producer and was
just to be a recording engineer. I understand that. I am sure there are numerous
reasons he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps there was a conversation that no
one else knows about in which he expressed what to expect to the percusionist.
Anyway.. the engineer is a real cool guy and I hope to build a relationship
with him. I was right about how the last session
would turn out. It is grossly off time and they had a real hard time playing
along with the out of time congas. Also there was no planning or guidance
in the recording process so parts were recorded without lead in counts and
time was wasted trying to record lead in instruments. I hate to be such a
hard ass to my friends, but they felt that I was not worth the $25/hr I quoted
them. They decided to go with a reputable local studio and pay double that
and end up with 1/2 the quality. I will not tell them I told you so. Heck,
next time I might just quote them $30/hr just because. ;-) Anyway I have
got to know some of he band members better than before and they are a good
bunch if guys. Just a shame they had to learn the hard way. The money they
are using for the recording is community money(raised from gigs) so none
of them are really attached to it persoanlly and are OK to just play their
parts and go without too much concern of the final result. My guirist friend
wants me their for the mix and final sessions. I am learning important lessons
about studio business which I wasn't expecting. I really appreciate my friends
letting me tag along. Ofcourse I am helping out loading and unloading, running
for food, tuning guitars etc...
fun stuff.
b
"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>so it's back
>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>> noise is gone.
>
>sounds awfully ground related man.
>AA
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>> noise is gone.
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>
>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
>>>that
>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel
>>>is
>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
pit
>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
>>>some
>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>>>Demeter
>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can sub
>>>in
>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>>>
>>>;o)
>>>
>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
>>>> time
>>>to
>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
with
>>>it,
>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>>>> --
>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>
>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>>>> >
>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>>>> > known.
>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite
>>>> > a
>>>> > show.
>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
>>>> > rerouting
>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>>>> > There
>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
>>>> > set
>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
>>>> > observe.
>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>>>> > watched
>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>>>something.
>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
>>>> > guitars,
>>>> > electric
>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>>>> > seinhiser
>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>>>them
>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>>>They
>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
with
>>>> > what
>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>>>> > disappointed
>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>>>> > spent
>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and
I
>>>> > hardly
>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>>>percussion
>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
>>>> > recording
>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>>>along
>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>>>> > b
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70893 is a reply to message #70888] |
Sat, 05 August 2006 22:57 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Brandon,
This band does not seem ready for the studio. They sound like they need more
rehearing. AND, rehearsing with a drum machine or metronome.
They should save their money, hire a Producer, then go into the studio..
This is like blind leading the blind..
"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>
>Yes I can understand what you guys are saying.
>I told the guitarist to ask the engineer what exactly his role was to be
>as it was defined by the band member(percusionist)
>that set up the service. The engineer was not hired as a producer and was
>just to be a recording engineer. I understand that. I am sure there are
numerous
>reasons he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps there was a conversation that no
>one else knows about in which he expressed what to expect to the percusionist.
>Anyway.. the engineer is a real cool guy and I hope to build a relationship
>with him. I was right about how the last session
>would turn out. It is grossly off time and they had a real hard time playing
>along with the out of time congas. Also there was no planning or guidance
>in the recording process so parts were recorded without lead in counts and
>time was wasted trying to record lead in instruments. I hate to be such
a
>hard ass to my friends, but they felt that I was not worth the $25/hr I
quoted
>them. They decided to go with a reputable local studio and pay double that
>and end up with 1/2 the quality. I will not tell them I told you so. Heck,
>next time I might just quote them $30/hr just because. ;-) Anyway I have
>got to know some of he band members better than before and they are a good
>bunch if guys. Just a shame they had to learn the hard way. The money they
>are using for the recording is community money(raised from gigs) so none
>of them are really attached to it persoanlly and are OK to just play their
>parts and go without too much concern of the final result. My guirist friend
>wants me their for the mix and final sessions. I am learning important lessons
>about studio business which I wasn't expecting. I really appreciate my friends
>letting me tag along. Ofcourse I am helping out loading and unloading, running
>for food, tuning guitars etc...
>fun stuff.
>b
>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>so it's back
>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>>> noise is gone.
>>
>>sounds awfully ground related man.
>>AA
>>
>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
>>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
>>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
>>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
>>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
>>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
>>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
>>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
>>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
>>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>>> noise is gone.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
>>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
>
>>>>that
>>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel
>
>>>>is
>>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
>pit
>>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
>
>>>>some
>>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>>>>Demeter
>>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can
sub
>
>>>>in
>>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>>>>
>>>>;o)
>>>>
>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
>
>>>>> time
>>>>to
>>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
>with
>>>>it,
>>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>>>>> --
>>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>
>>>>> > known.
>>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
quite
>
>>>>> > a
>>>>> > show.
>>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to
keep
>>>>> > rerouting
>>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>>>>> > There
>>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
>
>>>>> > set
>>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there
to
>>>>> > observe.
>>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>>>>> > watched
>>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>>>>something.
>>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
>>>>> > guitars,
>>>>> > electric
>>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>>>>> > seinhiser
>>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>>>>them
>>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>>>>They
>>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
>with
>>>>> > what
>>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>>>>> > disappointed
>>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>
>>>>> > spent
>>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day
and
>I
>>>>> > hardly
>>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>>>>percussion
>>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They
were
>>>>> > recording
>>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>>>>along
>>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>>>>> > b
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70894 is a reply to message #70879] |
Sun, 06 August 2006 02:40 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
i'll be triple checking all the connections but the other inserts that
short out the noise are not connected or touching. it's just kinda
weird that this should happen after 9 years.
On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 12:23:16 -0500, "Aaron Allen"
<nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>so it's back
>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>> noise is gone.
>
>sounds awfully ground related man.
>AA
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>> noise is gone.
>>
>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>
>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
>>>that
>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel
>>>is
>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake pit
>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
>>>some
>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>>>Demeter
>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can sub
>>>in
>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>>>
>>>;o)
>>>
>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
>>>> time
>>>to
>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on with
>>>it,
>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>>>> --
>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>
>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>>>> >
>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>>>> > known.
>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting quite
>>>> > a
>>>> > show.
>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to keep
>>>> > rerouting
>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>>>> > There
>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
>>>> > set
>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there to
>>>> > observe.
>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>>>> > watched
>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>>>something.
>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
>>>> > guitars,
>>>> > electric
>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>>>> > seinhiser
>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>>>them
>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>>>They
>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed with
>>>> > what
>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>>>> > disappointed
>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>>>> > spent
>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day and I
>>>> > hardly
>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>>>percussion
>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They were
>>>> > recording
>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>>>along
>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>>>> > b
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70899 is a reply to message #70893] |
Sun, 06 August 2006 08:16 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Agreed
"LaMOnt" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:44d584b5$1@linux...
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> This band does not seem ready for the studio. They sound like they need
more
> rehearing. AND, rehearsing with a drum machine or metronome.
>
> They should save their money, hire a Producer, then go into the studio..
> This is like blind leading the blind..
>
>
> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >
> >Yes I can understand what you guys are saying.
> >I told the guitarist to ask the engineer what exactly his role was to be
> >as it was defined by the band member(percusionist)
> >that set up the service. The engineer was not hired as a producer and was
> >just to be a recording engineer. I understand that. I am sure there are
> numerous
> >reasons he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps there was a conversation that no
> >one else knows about in which he expressed what to expect to the
percusionist.
> >Anyway.. the engineer is a real cool guy and I hope to build a
relationship
> >with him. I was right about how the last session
> >would turn out. It is grossly off time and they had a real hard time
playing
> >along with the out of time congas. Also there was no planning or guidance
> >in the recording process so parts were recorded without lead in counts
and
> >time was wasted trying to record lead in instruments. I hate to be such
> a
> >hard ass to my friends, but they felt that I was not worth the $25/hr I
> quoted
> >them. They decided to go with a reputable local studio and pay double
that
> >and end up with 1/2 the quality. I will not tell them I told you so.
Heck,
> >next time I might just quote them $30/hr just because. ;-) Anyway I have
> >got to know some of he band members better than before and they are a
good
> >bunch if guys. Just a shame they had to learn the hard way. The money
they
> >are using for the recording is community money(raised from gigs) so none
> >of them are really attached to it persoanlly and are OK to just play
their
> >parts and go without too much concern of the final result. My guirist
friend
> >wants me their for the mix and final sessions. I am learning important
lessons
> >about studio business which I wasn't expecting. I really appreciate my
friends
> >letting me tag along. Ofcourse I am helping out loading and unloading,
running
> >for food, tuning guitars etc...
> >fun stuff.
> >b
> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
> >>so it's back
> >>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> >>> noise is gone.
> >>
> >>sounds awfully ground related man.
> >>AA
> >>
> >>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
> >>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
> >>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
> >>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
> >>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
> >>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
> >>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
> >>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
> >>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
> >>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
> >>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> >>> noise is gone.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
> >>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
> >
> >>>>that
> >>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one
channel
> >
> >>>>is
> >>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
> >>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
> >pit
> >>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
> >>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
> >>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
> >
> >>>>some
> >>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>
> >>>>Demeter
> >>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can
> sub
> >
> >>>>in
> >>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
> >>>>
> >>>>;o)
> >>>>
> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> >>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
> >>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
> >>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
> >>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
> >
> >>>>> time
> >>>>to
> >>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
> >with
> >>>>it,
> >>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Martin Harrington
> >>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
> >
> >>>>> > known.
> >>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
> quite
> >
> >>>>> > a
> >>>>> > show.
> >>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> >>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> >>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to
> keep
> >>>>> > rerouting
> >>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
> >>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch
instruments.
> >>>>> > There
> >>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was
just
> >
> >>>>> > set
> >>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there
> to
> >>>>> > observe.
> >>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and
just
> >>>>> > watched
> >>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
> >>>>something.
> >>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
> >>>>> > guitars,
> >>>>> > electric
> >>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
> >>>>> > seinhiser
> >>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was
compressing
> >>>>them
> >>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using
though.
> >>>>They
> >>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
> >with
> >>>>> > what
> >>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I
was
> >>>>> > disappointed
> >>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
> >
> >>>>> > spent
> >>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day
> and
> >I
> >>>>> > hardly
> >>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
> >>>>percussion
> >>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They
> were
> >>>>> > recording
> >>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to
play
> >>>>along
> >>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> >>>>> > b
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70900 is a reply to message #70893] |
Sun, 06 August 2006 08:19 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Agreed. I can almost guarantee you that the engineer, if he cares about the
final product having his name associated with it, is just as unhappy as the
band at this point too. Someone needs to give this project some direction if
it's going to have any chance at all.
"LaMOnt" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:44d584b5$1@linux...
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> This band does not seem ready for the studio. They sound like they need
more
> rehearing. AND, rehearsing with a drum machine or metronome.
>
> They should save their money, hire a Producer, then go into the studio..
> This is like blind leading the blind..
>
>
> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >
> >Yes I can understand what you guys are saying.
> >I told the guitarist to ask the engineer what exactly his role was to be
> >as it was defined by the band member(percusionist)
> >that set up the service. The engineer was not hired as a producer and was
> >just to be a recording engineer. I understand that. I am sure there are
> numerous
> >reasons he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps there was a conversation that no
> >one else knows about in which he expressed what to expect to the
percusionist.
> >Anyway.. the engineer is a real cool guy and I hope to build a
relationship
> >with him. I was right about how the last session
> >would turn out. It is grossly off time and they had a real hard time
playing
> >along with the out of time congas. Also there was no planning or guidance
> >in the recording process so parts were recorded without lead in counts
and
> >time was wasted trying to record lead in instruments. I hate to be such
> a
> >hard ass to my friends, but they felt that I was not worth the $25/hr I
> quoted
> >them. They decided to go with a reputable local studio and pay double
that
> >and end up with 1/2 the quality. I will not tell them I told you so.
Heck,
> >next time I might just quote them $30/hr just because. ;-) Anyway I have
> >got to know some of he band members better than before and they are a
good
> >bunch if guys. Just a shame they had to learn the hard way. The money
they
> >are using for the recording is community money(raised from gigs) so none
> >of them are really attached to it persoanlly and are OK to just play
their
> >parts and go without too much concern of the final result. My guirist
friend
> >wants me their for the mix and final sessions. I am learning important
lessons
> >about studio business which I wasn't expecting. I really appreciate my
friends
> >letting me tag along. Ofcourse I am helping out loading and unloading,
running
> >for food, tuning guitars etc...
> >fun stuff.
> >b
> >"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
> >>so it's back
> >>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> >>> noise is gone.
> >>
> >>sounds awfully ground related man.
> >>AA
> >>
> >>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
> >>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
> >>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
> >>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
> >>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
> >>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
> >>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
> >>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
> >>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
> >>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
> >>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> >>> noise is gone.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
> >>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
> >
> >>>>that
> >>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one
channel
> >
> >>>>is
> >>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
> >>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
> >pit
> >>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
> >>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
> >>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
> >
> >>>>some
> >>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>
> >>>>Demeter
> >>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can
> sub
> >
> >>>>in
> >>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
> >>>>
> >>>>;o)
> >>>>
> >>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> >>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
> >>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
> >>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
> >>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
> >
> >>>>> time
> >>>>to
> >>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
> >with
> >>>>it,
> >>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Martin Harrington
> >>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
> >
> >>>>> > known.
> >>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
> quite
> >
> >>>>> > a
> >>>>> > show.
> >>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> >>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> >>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to
> keep
> >>>>> > rerouting
> >>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
> >>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch
instruments.
> >>>>> > There
> >>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was
just
> >
> >>>>> > set
> >>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there
> to
> >>>>> > observe.
> >>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and
just
> >>>>> > watched
> >>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
> >>>>something.
> >>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
> >>>>> > guitars,
> >>>>> > electric
> >>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
> >>>>> > seinhiser
> >>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was
compressing
> >>>>them
> >>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using
though.
> >>>>They
> >>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
> >with
> >>>>> > what
> >>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I
was
> >>>>> > disappointed
> >>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
> >
> >>>>> > spent
> >>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day
> and
> >I
> >>>>> > hardly
> >>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
> >>>>percussion
> >>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They
> were
> >>>>> > recording
> >>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to
play
> >>>>along
> >>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> >>>>> > b
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
|
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| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70901 is a reply to message #70893] |
Sun, 06 August 2006 08:23 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Coupla things, Brandon...
This band might indeed not be "ready" for the studio, but that
doesn't mean they can't necessarily be guided/prodded into
producing a better product than they're actually capable of -
everyone get what I'm saying? That statement might sound
contradictory, but when you think about it, in many cases
that's actually the producer's job!
With an established artist, a producers' role might be
completely different, but with a band that's young or perhaps
just inexperienced inasfar as the studio is concerned, the
producer is the guy who makes it or breaks it... if he just
lets them get in there & wail, there's a huge chance it's going
to be a POS; if there's no producer, then there's an equally
huge chance it's likely to turn out the same way. Involving a
producer (or more specifically, a producer that is able to get
the most out of the band & the situation, and therefore take
them to a level beyond which they're capable of on their own)
can result in the opposite effect can be cited through any
number of instances, but the one that always comes to my mind
is Mutt Lange - I know a lot of people think he overproduces
things, but look what he did for Def Leppard from the moment he
got involved with them, or Shania, for that matter.
I guess I'm rambling a bit there, because I'm not saying
anything everyone here doesn't already know, but the point
I'm laying the groundwork for is this: in situations like your
friends' band, even if the engineer isn't also hired
as/expected to be the "producer", he still has a responsibility
to not let the band step on their own dicks! He might not be
willing or able or feel comfortable coercing the band into
doing something a certain way, but he SHOULD be making suggestions that'll
help the entire cause ("Hey guys, have you
considered laying a click track down?" or "Let's take two
seconds & put a count-in on these tunes, ok? You never know if
you'll want to have that heavy-metal banjo overdub come in
right at the beginning instead of two measures later"). If he
does so, and they refuse, then that's another thing entirely.
IMO, a band's almost better off with a bad producer than no
producer at all... at least that way shit will get done - it
might suck, but it'll at least suck in a cohesive manner LOL!
In other words, SOMEONE's got to be driving the bus (even if,
in the absence of a de-facto "producer", the engineer is at the
very least trying to guide things along), or else it could end
up as such a clusterfuck that they may not even get a song
completed properly. Sounds like the sessions you're sitting in
on could be headed in that direction.
Neil
"LaMOnt" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Hi Brandon,
>
>This band does not seem ready for the studio. They sound like they need
more
>rehearing. AND, rehearsing with a drum machine or metronome.
>
>They should save their money, hire a Producer, then go into the studio..
>This is like blind leading the blind..
>
>
>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>
>>Yes I can understand what you guys are saying.
>>I told the guitarist to ask the engineer what exactly his role was to be
>>as it was defined by the band member(percusionist)
>>that set up the service. The engineer was not hired as a producer and was
>>just to be a recording engineer. I understand that. I am sure there are
>numerous
>>reasons he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps there was a conversation that
no
>>one else knows about in which he expressed what to expect to the percusionist.
>>Anyway.. the engineer is a real cool guy and I hope to build a relationship
>>with him. I was right about how the last session
>>would turn out. It is grossly off time and they had a real hard time playing
>>along with the out of time congas. Also there was no planning or guidance
>>in the recording process so parts were recorded without lead in counts
and
>>time was wasted trying to record lead in instruments. I hate to be such
>a
>>hard ass to my friends, but they felt that I was not worth the $25/hr I
>quoted
>>them. They decided to go with a reputable local studio and pay double that
>>and end up with 1/2 the quality. I will not tell them I told you so. Heck,
>>next time I might just quote them $30/hr just because. ;-) Anyway I have
>>got to know some of he band members better than before and they are a good
>>bunch if guys. Just a shame they had to learn the hard way. The money they
>>are using for the recording is community money(raised from gigs) so none
>>of them are really attached to it persoanlly and are OK to just play their
>>parts and go without too much concern of the final result. My guirist friend
>>wants me their for the mix and final sessions. I am learning important
lessons
>>about studio business which I wasn't expecting. I really appreciate my
friends
>>letting me tag along. Ofcourse I am helping out loading and unloading,
running
>>for food, tuning guitars etc...
>>fun stuff.
>>b
>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>so it's back
>>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>>>> noise is gone.
>>>
>>>sounds awfully ground related man.
>>>AA
>>>
>>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
>>>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
>>>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
>>>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
>>>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
>>>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
>>>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
>>>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
>>>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
>>>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
>>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>>>> noise is gone.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
>>>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel
>>
>>>>>is
>>>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>>>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
>>pit
>>>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>>>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>>>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
>>
>>>>>some
>>>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>
>>>>>Demeter
>>>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can
>sub
>>
>>>>>in
>>>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>>>>>
>>>>>;o)
>>>>>
>>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>>>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>>>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>>>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
>>
>>>>>> time
>>>>>to
>>>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
>>with
>>>>>it,
>>>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>>
>>>>>> > known.
>>>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
>quite
>>
>>>>>> > a
>>>>>> > show.
>>>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>>>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>>>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to
>keep
>>>>>> > rerouting
>>>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>>>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>>>>>> > There
>>>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was
just
>>
>>>>>> > set
>>>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there
>to
>>>>>> > observe.
>>>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>>>>>> > watched
>>>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>>>>>something.
>>>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
>>>>>> > guitars,
>>>>>> > electric
>>>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>>>>>> > seinhiser
>>>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>>>>>them
>>>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>>>>>They
>>>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
>>with
>>>>>> > what
>>>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I
was
>>>>>> > disappointed
>>>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>>
>>>>>> > spent
>>>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day
>and
>>I
>>>>>> > hardly
>>>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>>>>>percussion
>>>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They
>were
>>>>>> > recording
>>>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to
play
>>>>>along
>>>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>>>>>> > b
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70902 is a reply to message #70901] |
Sun, 06 August 2006 08:39 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>even if the engineer isn't also hired
as/expected to be the "producer", he still has a responsibility
to not let the band step on their own dicks!<
OK......then.....I gave you one last week. I've got dibs on this one.
;OD
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44d60957$1@linux...
>
> Coupla things, Brandon...
> This band might indeed not be "ready" for the studio, but that
> doesn't mean they can't necessarily be guided/prodded into
> producing a better product than they're actually capable of -
> everyone get what I'm saying? That statement might sound
> contradictory, but when you think about it, in many cases
> that's actually the producer's job!
>
> With an established artist, a producers' role might be
> completely different, but with a band that's young or perhaps
> just inexperienced inasfar as the studio is concerned, the
> producer is the guy who makes it or breaks it... if he just
> lets them get in there & wail, there's a huge chance it's going
> to be a POS; if there's no producer, then there's an equally
> huge chance it's likely to turn out the same way. Involving a
> producer (or more specifically, a producer that is able to get
> the most out of the band & the situation, and therefore take
> them to a level beyond which they're capable of on their own)
> can result in the opposite effect can be cited through any
> number of instances, but the one that always comes to my mind
> is Mutt Lange - I know a lot of people think he overproduces
> things, but look what he did for Def Leppard from the moment he
> got involved with them, or Shania, for that matter.
>
> I guess I'm rambling a bit there, because I'm not saying
> anything everyone here doesn't already know, but the point
> I'm laying the groundwork for is this: in situations like your
> friends' band, even if the engineer isn't also hired
> as/expected to be the "producer", he still has a responsibility
> to not let the band step on their own dicks! He might not be
> willing or able or feel comfortable coercing the band into
> doing something a certain way, but he SHOULD be making suggestions that'll
> help the entire cause ("Hey guys, have you
> considered laying a click track down?" or "Let's take two
> seconds & put a count-in on these tunes, ok? You never know if
> you'll want to have that heavy-metal banjo overdub come in
> right at the beginning instead of two measures later"). If he
> does so, and they refuse, then that's another thing entirely.
>
> IMO, a band's almost better off with a bad producer than no
> producer at all... at least that way shit will get done - it
> might suck, but it'll at least suck in a cohesive manner LOL!
>
> In other words, SOMEONE's got to be driving the bus (even if,
> in the absence of a de-facto "producer", the engineer is at the
> very least trying to guide things along), or else it could end
> up as such a clusterfuck that they may not even get a song
> completed properly. Sounds like the sessions you're sitting in
> on could be headed in that direction.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> "LaMOnt" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >
> >Hi Brandon,
> >
> >This band does not seem ready for the studio. They sound like they need
> more
> >rehearing. AND, rehearsing with a drum machine or metronome.
> >
> >They should save their money, hire a Producer, then go into the studio..
> >This is like blind leading the blind..
> >
> >
> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Yes I can understand what you guys are saying.
> >>I told the guitarist to ask the engineer what exactly his role was to be
> >>as it was defined by the band member(percusionist)
> >>that set up the service. The engineer was not hired as a producer and
was
> >>just to be a recording engineer. I understand that. I am sure there are
> >numerous
> >>reasons he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps there was a conversation that
> no
> >>one else knows about in which he expressed what to expect to the
percusionist.
> >>Anyway.. the engineer is a real cool guy and I hope to build a
relationship
> >>with him. I was right about how the last session
> >>would turn out. It is grossly off time and they had a real hard time
playing
> >>along with the out of time congas. Also there was no planning or
guidance
> >>in the recording process so parts were recorded without lead in counts
> and
> >>time was wasted trying to record lead in instruments. I hate to be such
> >a
> >>hard ass to my friends, but they felt that I was not worth the $25/hr I
> >quoted
> >>them. They decided to go with a reputable local studio and pay double
that
> >>and end up with 1/2 the quality. I will not tell them I told you so.
Heck,
> >>next time I might just quote them $30/hr just because. ;-) Anyway I have
> >>got to know some of he band members better than before and they are a
good
> >>bunch if guys. Just a shame they had to learn the hard way. The money
they
> >>are using for the recording is community money(raised from gigs) so none
> >>of them are really attached to it persoanlly and are OK to just play
their
> >>parts and go without too much concern of the final result. My guirist
friend
> >>wants me their for the mix and final sessions. I am learning important
> lessons
> >>about studio business which I wasn't expecting. I really appreciate my
> friends
> >>letting me tag along. Ofcourse I am helping out loading and unloading,
> running
> >>for food, tuning guitars etc...
> >>fun stuff.
> >>b
> >>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
> >>>so it's back
> >>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> >>>> noise is gone.
> >>>
> >>>sounds awfully ground related man.
> >>>AA
> >>>
> >>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
> >>>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
> >>>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
> >>>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
> >>>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch
cable
> >>>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
> >>>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull
the
> >>>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
> >>>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
> >>>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's
back
> >>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
> >>>> noise is gone.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
> >>>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things
here
> >>
> >>>>>that
> >>>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one
channel
> >>
> >>>>>is
> >>>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
> >>>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
> >>pit
> >>>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
> >>>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
> >>>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to
have
> >>
> >>>>>some
> >>>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
> >
> >>>>>Demeter
> >>>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can
> >sub
> >>
> >>>>>in
> >>>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>;o)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
> >>>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
> >>>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
> >>>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not
enough
> >>
> >>>>>> time
> >>>>>to
> >>>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
> >>with
> >>>>>it,
> >>>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Martin Harrington
> >>>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
> >>
> >>>>>> > known.
> >>>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
> >quite
> >>
> >>>>>> > a
> >>>>>> > show.
> >>>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
> >>>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
> >>>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to
> >keep
> >>>>>> > rerouting
> >>>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
> >>>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch
instruments.
> >>>>>> > There
> >>>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was
> just
> >>
> >>>>>> > set
> >>>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there
> >to
> >>>>>> > observe.
> >>>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and
just
> >>>>>> > watched
> >>>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
> >>>>>something.
> >>>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
> >>>>>> > guitars,
> >>>>>> > electric
> >>>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc..
with
> >>>>>> > seinhiser
> >>>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was
compressing
> >>>>>them
> >>>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using
though.
> >>>>>They
> >>>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
> >>with
> >>>>>> > what
> >>>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I
> was
> >>>>>> > disappointed
> >>>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of
effort
> >>
> >>>>>> > spent
> >>>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day
> >and
> >>I
> >>>>>> > hardly
> >>>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
> >>>>>percussion
> >>>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They
> >were
> >>>>>> > recording
> >>>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to
> play
> >>>>>along
> >>>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
> >>>>>> > b
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Studio visit last night.... [message #70917 is a reply to message #70894] |
Mon, 07 August 2006 05:10 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That's what I was trying to say earlier Neil.
The things that really bothered me about this guy was he would force them
to play it perfect all the way thru. He would delete the last take if it
wasn't good. Every once in a while he would punch in and out, but I didn't
like his choices of punch points.
He let it go way to long before punching out. Those were my biggest gripes.
He was running PT and I was like " come on dude you can save those takes
and pull the best passage from each" in my head. Perhaps he isn't that experienced
or just didn't feel like piecing together somebody's shit. Like I said he
is a cool guy. I think he was just milking them a little too much when he
could gave a little help.
b
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i'll be triple checking all the connections but the other inserts that
>short out the noise are not connected or touching. it's just kinda
>weird that this should happen after 9 years.
>
>On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 12:23:16 -0500, "Aaron Allen"
><nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>
>>so it's back
>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>>> noise is gone.
>>
>>sounds awfully ground related man.
>>AA
>>
>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:68p8d21bhdl6dopvcqpe10u36pia2tql3i@4ax.com...
>>> work arounds is the operative word. for no reason that i have been
>>> able to suss out 2 channels started getting noise. checked all the
>>> wires and connections...nothing. routed the patch cables to other
>>> channels and noise followed the changes. then i plugged a patch cable
>>> into the patchpoint below the channel insert (not wired to anything
>>> and not touching the insert above and the noise disappeared. pull the
>>> whole thing apart again and check for bad connections or touching
>>> between 2 points and none exists. i even slid a piece of non
>>> conductive material between the connections and nothing. so it's back
>>> to the dummy cable insert into a non functioning patchpoint and the
>>> noise is gone.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:44:12 -0600, "DJ"
>>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>That what my place is starting to resemble. I've got a few things here
>>>>that
>>>>need to be serviced bad, but either they are dual channel and one channel
>>>>is
>>>>still working and I'm using it or there's something else that isn't
>>>>functioning quite properly and I need to go crawl around in the snake
pit
>>>>and identify whether it's a cabling issue, hardware issue, patchbay
>>>>issue......etc. I have dedicated all day tomorrow to doing this and
>>>>unracking a Focusrite RED7 and a Demeter comp for shipment out to have
>>>>some
>>>>more in depth maintenance done. I'm going to have to work around the
>>>>Demeter
>>>>in a mix I'm doing, but I've figuired one out. Those UAD-1 comps can
sub
>>>>in
>>>>for hardware with no problem. That's why I've got 4 cards I guess.
>>>>
>>>>;o)
>>>>
>>>>"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>news:44d3e42e$1@linux...
>>>>> Welcome to the "real" world Brandon.
>>>>> Most real world studios are nowhere as pristine as most of the
>>>>> "project/home" studios out there, simply because there is not enough
>>>>> time
>>>>to
>>>>> maintain equipment...you just quickly find a work-around and get on
with
>>>>it,
>>>>> then that work-around becomes the norm, and so on.....
>>>>> --
>>>>> Martin Harrington
>>>>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44d33a89$1@linux...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I got the opportunity to go to a local studio that is pretty well
>>>>> > known.
>>>>> > Some big acts are associated with this place and I was expecting
quite
>>>>> > a
>>>>> > show.
>>>>> > I expected something fancy, but it was just the opposite.
>>>>> > It was very small, cluttered and disorganized.
>>>>> > They had a lot of noisy channels on there board that they had to
keep
>>>>> > rerouting
>>>>> > because it was screwing up the takes.
>>>>> > Luckily the takes that got screwed were just for scratch instruments.
>>>>> > There
>>>>> > didn't seem to be any concern for the "sound" or "tone". It was just
>>>>> > set
>>>>> > the levels and go. The band were friends of mine and I was there
to
>>>>> > observe.
>>>>> > I was also acting as the guitar tech. I kept my mouth shut and just
>>>>> > watched
>>>>> > never revealing that I was really there to see if I could learn
>>>>something.
>>>>> > The band is a latin band and consists of two acoustic/electric
>>>>> > guitars,
>>>>> > electric
>>>>> > bass, hand percussion and vocals. They mic'd the congas etc.. with
>>>>> > seinhiser
>>>>> > spots and two KM64's for OH's. They sounded good. He was compressing
>>>>them
>>>>> > to track I think. I don't know what type of comp he was using though.
>>>>They
>>>>> > were recording to ProTools system. All in all I was not impressed
with
>>>>> > what
>>>>> > I heard or saw. We will see what tonite brings. I don't think I was
>>>>> > disappointed
>>>>> > in the sound because of Protools I think it was the lack of effort
>>>>> > spent
>>>>> > upfront getting the right sound. Ofcourse they do this every day
and I
>>>>> > hardly
>>>>> > do it at all so what do I know. Anyway..... We tracked the hand
>>>>percussion
>>>>> > last night and are going to do the bass and guitars tonite. They
were
>>>>> > recording
>>>>> > without a click. So it should be interesting to see them try to play
>>>>along
>>>>> > with a rollercoaster of congas. Ok later...
>>>>> > b
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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