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slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106541]

Thu, 23 June 2011 14:58

imajon

Messages: 55
Registered: June 2009
Location: Wisconsin

Member

Does anyone know if you can slave paris via adat clock from another device?
Paris settings has a selection for "digital" clock sync but not sure about how to do that or if it can be done
Thanks
Kurt

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106542 is a reply to message #106541]

Thu, 23 June 2011 15:26

kerryg

Messages: 1529
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member
Administrator

Depemds on what you mean - I'm pretty sure PARIS can derive its digital clock from ADAT *optical*, but not from 9-pin ADAT sync (since PARIS ADAT cards only have an "out" socket for ADAT sync).

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106549 is a reply to message #106542]

Fri, 24 June 2011 02:52

Colin Simpson

Messages: 19
Registered: March 2008
Location: Australia

Junior Member

I have never been able to synch PARIS to my Alesis ADAT or my Fostex RD-8 using any of the clock outputs or inputs, the TOSlink lightpipe, or the 9 pin ADAT lead (running PARIS on a Mac G4 with OS 9.2).

For 16 or 24 track projects recorded on ADAT, I transfer audio via the fibre optic cable in 8 track blocks, then zoom in and align each 8 track block with the others.
I'm hoping that the ADAT synch actually works when I move PARIS from Mac to PC.

Meanwhile, I'm watching this topic with interest to see if anyone knows how to get them to synch.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106550 is a reply to message #106541]

Fri, 24 June 2011 05:37

imajon

Messages: 55
Registered: June 2009
Location: Wisconsin

Member

I should have been more precise.
What I mean is receiving digital clock over adat, not syncing Paris to an "Adat"
I am having an issue with some gear that is slaving to Paris and receiving its clock over adat fiber optic from Paris as it has no bnc word clock input. I wanted to see If Paris could receive clock over adat. The control panel has a setting for "digital and Mec has "digital" indicator and was wondering if that had anything to do with that. Just a trouble shooting idea to help pin down an issue I am having.
Thanks

Responding to Colin.
I never had an "adat" but the closest I have come was syncing Logic Audio midi to paris. Start the paris transport and logic would follow. It was glitchy but, but worked somewhat.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106551 is a reply to message #106549]

Fri, 24 June 2011 09:24

kerryg

Messages: 1529
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member
Administrator

Hi Colin - ADAT sync on a Mac generally doesn't work (with exceptions; see below). On a PC ADAT sync is converted into something called APP or (ASIO Positioning Protocol); the PC uses ASIO but OSX uses its own proprietary system called Core Audio and chose not to support this.

The exception is certain MOTU hardware and software when used together (everything from the ADAT sync socket to the DAW is thus under their control, and *they* thought it was important).

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106552 is a reply to message #106551]

Fri, 24 June 2011 15:21

Colin Simpson

Messages: 19
Registered: March 2008
Location: Australia

Junior Member

Thanks for the good info Kerry.

I've learned a workaround for those rare occasions when I have to transfer old projects from ADAT tape, but I have wondered if there was something I could do that would make them synch.

The problem seems to be in the timecode / location and tape transport areas, as I have used the MEC ADAT module to get extra inputs from external preamps (such as Focusrite OctoPre) through the lightpipe and it works OK.

The OctoPre will slave to the PARIS clock and work fine, but sounds noticeably better if both are clocked by a quality external device such as a Big Ben.

Then there's the issue of the PARIS 20 bit ADAT conversion "chopping" off the last 4 bits of a 24 bit input.

The sound (and presumably conversion) quality is perfect when transferring 16 or 20 bit audio file from ADAT tape machines though.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106569 is a reply to message #106550]

Wed, 29 June 2011 18:25

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

I have wondered this too, since I have had some popping issues normally associated with WC problems when trying to use an ADAT device as WC Master.

The manual does not distinguish between S/PDIF and ADAT as a Master when "Digital" is selected in the Project Window, yet the MEC chassis itself lists both "S/PDIF" and "Module" as clock sources. Presumably "Module" refers to an ADAT input.

Pretty sure I have not had success when trying to set an ADAT input device as Master.

Interestingly, in Ch 4 - The Patch Bay - it says that when Paris sees audio coming from an external digital device, it will automatically switch Clock source to "Digital".

Ted

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106570 is a reply to message #106552]

Wed, 29 June 2011 18:35

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

Colin -

Years back, many asserted that the 4 bits lopped off through Paris ADAT input modules were not noticed. I certainly found the sound of the SSL Alpha Link ADAT converters hooked up to Paris for external processing slightly more open, clear, smooth etc than using the Paris 8in/out converters, yet I could not get around popping issues, presumably WC problems, so I had to abandon it. Maybe I would have liked the Alpha Link even more if the Paris ADAT was 24 bit.

This is why I and others are so interested in Doug Wellington's 16 channel 24 bit ADAT interface that can connect directly to the C-16 card. Unfortunately, that project is currently stalled by a lack of available parts.

I use a Lavry AD box for all input, since I usually record 2 tracks at a time. When tracking drums, I find the Lavry for OHs, plus the Paris for close miking (I augment snare, toms, kick anyway) to be pretty darn good.

I also used the Universal Audio 2 ch ADDA for a while. Really nice. Like Paris mojo with a double dose of clarity, but I just couldn't afford 3K for 2 channels of in/out.

Ted

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106571 is a reply to message #106570]

Thu, 30 June 2011 07:47

Colin Simpson

Messages: 19
Registered: March 2008
Location: Australia

Junior Member

Looking back at everyones's posts on this topic so far, I can't help but wonder: what does the ADAT module actually do well?

Seems like synching to clock and transport controls isn't very good.

Maybe it's worth starting another topic asking current PARIS users who have ADAT modules "what do you use it for?"

I still keep one in my MEC just for transferring audio from old sessions recorded on ADAT machines, 8 tracks at a time.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106572 is a reply to message #106571]

Thu, 30 June 2011 09:14

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

I use it with and HDSP9652 to pass VSTi audio into PARIS from Reaper....also can use it going out into Reaper if you want to mix or use PDC there.

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106593 is a reply to message #106571]

Fri, 15 July 2011 22:21

Kim W.

Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia

Senior Member

The ADAT module 9 pin sync works well for me with my Frontier Dakota card in a separate box running Cubase.
I also transfer VSTi audio into Paris. Cubase slaves to Paris brilliantly.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106594 is a reply to message #106593]

Sat, 16 July 2011 05:38

dnafe

Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

I use Paris as my master and a Dakota card as the interface and it works beautifully using ASIO Positioning Protocol

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106595 is a reply to message #106594]

Tue, 19 July 2011 03:47

mani1147

Messages: 129
Registered: May 2009
Location: NB Canada

Senior Member

Another Reaper with HDSP9652 slaved to Paris ADAT here, very solid.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106596 is a reply to message #106541]

Wed, 20 July 2011 00:12

Colin Simpson

Messages: 19
Registered: March 2008
Location: Australia

Junior Member

Are any of you guys running PARIS on a Mac or are you on Windows? I'm wondering if my problems are Mac OS 9.2 related and if I can expect better ADAT module performance when I switch to XP.

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106597 is a reply to message #106596]

Wed, 20 July 2011 23:53

Kim W.

Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia

Senior Member

Hi, Colin.
I believe (from my readings on this subject), that PARIS ADAT sync doesn't work in MAC OS. You are migrating to XP. as i understand it. So if you have an ADAT module in your Paris rig, and either one of the old RME cards, or, like myself, a Frontier Dakota card with the 9 pin Adat interface, You'll be SWEET!!

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106598 is a reply to message #106541]

Thu, 21 July 2011 03:05

Colin Simpson

Messages: 19
Registered: March 2008
Location: Australia

Junior Member

Thanks Kim. That's the impression I got from reading some old posts.
Do you use the PARIS ADAT module to send audio via lightpipe to another PC with the Dakota (or RME HDSP52) card in it? Running another application such as Reaper or Cubase or Nuendo?

I would be very pleased if I could synch 2 PC's together and transfer data in real time between PARIS and Reaper or Cubase. Can you do that via the ADAT module with 2 x PC's running XP?

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106599 is a reply to message #106598]

Thu, 21 July 2011 04:04

Kim W.

Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia

Senior Member

Hi Colin.
Not sure whether this is the scenario you envisage.
I have a separate box running cubase SX 3. It has a Frontier Dakota card in it. The card has 32 lightpipe outs which I don't use. (never got lightpipe cables long enough to reach the PARIS box...) I do, however use the SPDIF output on the Dakota to transfer cubase generated click and vsti output (when needed) into Paris. My Cubase box (with its own multi-monitor setup Smile

slaves to Paris pretty much flawlessly, and is sample accurate. (using the DB9 ADAT sync connectors on both the Paris ADAT card, and the Dakota Adat input). I usually assign track 15 & 16 on submix 2 to receive audio from spdif from the Cubase box.
Clear as mud??? LOl!!
If you can get hold of one of the RME or Dakota cards, (they should be pretty cheap on ebay right now.., just make sure they have the db15 ADAT sync connector), and a DB15 cable to connect to your PARIS ADAT card, you should be sweet.
Good luck!

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106600 is a reply to message #106597]

Thu, 21 July 2011 04:08

Kim W.

Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia

Senior Member

Oh, yes, and by the way, you CAN send audio into the external box in real time, either by spdif, or lightpipe, I presume. ( I have never used the lightpipe outs, but if SPDIF works, then surely lightpipe would!) Hope this helps. I am but a mere "Buffoon". (FZ)

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106601 is a reply to message #106600]

Thu, 21 July 2011 04:26

dnafe

Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

Hey Kim

My second rig houses a Dakota card and Reaper...connected by the 9 pin SPDIF, BNC and four light pipe cables - 32 channels in either direction.

The Dakota rig is slaved to Paris using ASIO Positioning Protocol and it's rock solid for locked sync.

You can fly audio there and back in real time with less that 100 ms latency or just use it one way in mix down in with less than 10ms latency.

AND It's simple to set up

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Re: slaving Paris to adat clock sync [message #106602 is a reply to message #106601]

Thu, 21 July 2011 05:40

Kim W.

Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia

Senior Member

Hi Don.
Glad to hear that the lightpipe works both ways. (albeit with some latency). I've never used it that way, but it's something I will explore with my new Paris PC. Yeah, the ADAT sync (asio positioning protocol)works a treat for me, just flying audio into Paris from my Cubase box.
I hope Colin can get his new rig up and running withoul too many hassles.
Cheers,
Kim

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