| VirtualVia PCI x4 expansion ATX Kit for PCI-E and PCI [message #108494] |
Mon, 01 December 2014 14:44  |
Wayne
Messages: 205
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Hi Mike and other Parisians,
Here my situation. I could use some advice
I run 2 Paris systems. A 2 card system inside home studio with BigBen and DAC-1 and a 1 card system in my converted garage video studio. Both machines are XP and getting kind of old and all cards are installed internally. Both are tuned for the PARIS audio app. Both used MECs. I record bands in the garage. I grab all the files and dump them into my inside studio, re-assign the ins/outs, int to ext clock and point to the new audio folder. Works pretty easily. Then I tune vocals and mix and master and convert to wav for my clients.
What I'd like to do is put all 3 cards in a VirtuaVia PCIx4 ATX Kit (I have ATX power supplies) and move the expansion between computers as needed (I only run one comp at a time) and maybe, hopefully, I'll only need to point to the audio folders and change from internal to external clock from then on. Catch: The kit comes with a PCI-e card which is not in either of my XP machines. So I was thinking of ordering a PCI card as well, if they make it for this PCIx4 ATX Kit. Anyone know?
An additional thought I must contend with.
I also have a Win7 64 bit machine with ProTools 11 (64bit) (sequencing and song writing) and VegasPro 13 (64bit) for video and this machine is solely PCI-E. So when I move Paris to this machine in the future then I'll need the supplied adaptor that comes with the original kit. If Paris stays at 32bit so be it. I'll still master my PT mixes in Paris and use Mike's drivers.
I haven't purchased Mike's latest Win7 driver because of this dilemma. But plan to real soon.
Lastly, the ASIO stuff Mike is working on is so cool. And to possibly have the ability to use EDS and 2 C16s in PT is totally awesome but this may be only at 32bit. If I understand correctly, I think we're still in the 32bit arena so it may not work in PT11 64bit. Of not, I'll run Paris independently.
A lot to consider.
Thanks gang for chiming on my situation. All ideas are welcome. I've used PARIS since '97 and really want to continue for the years ahead. Paris is so good at warming up my mixes, mastering and great for detailed audio dissecting of unwanted, non musical clangs and clips and overall editing.
Best,
Wayne
[Updated on: Fri, 06 March 2015 15:47] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: VirtualVia PCI x4 expansion ATX Kit for PCI-E [message #108604 is a reply to message #108603] |
Thu, 05 March 2015 06:45  |
Kim W.
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia
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Senior Member |
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Hi Wayne.
I did a bit of digging around, and it seems the Virtua Via kit consists of two components. A host card (with dvi cable) and the actual PCI expansion card. (Jump to the bottom of this convoluted post for info on a complete 4 pci box for around US$300 plus shipping).
I found another source for what appears to be the exact same components. Not cheap mind you, (they come from Germany as well), but it may be an alternative if you can't score a Magma.
The four pci slot board appears identical to the VirtuaVia one.
It is here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EXSYS-EX-1035-Expansion-Board-mit -4x-PCI-Slots-fur-ATX-Gehaus-/151432894350?pt=DE_Computer_So nstige&hash=item23421a978e
The host adaptor card and cable is below. It is PCI.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Exsys-EX-1094-PCI-zu-PCI-Adapter- fur-EX-1031-1032-1035-/161448414408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;hash=item2597134cc8
I guess my point is that these things are made in the same factory, probably in China, and available under different names. Curiously, there is also an expresscard host for the 2x PCI/2x PCI-E box, but I think that expansion board doesn't have a ATX connector for power, only an external 12 volt wall wart input. (Thus probably precluding it from EDS duties, as does the case... it's too small to house the EDS's). Whether hard wiring a beefier 12V supply would help??????
Anyway, just thought I'd post in case anyone wants to look into it further.
Kim
UPDATE: OK, I have found the PCI-E host card here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Exsys-EX-1095-PCI-Express-Adapter -Karte-fur-EX-1010-31-32-41-42-/151140655891?pt=DE_Computer_ Sonstige&hash=item2330af6313
...And the Expresscard host is available by itself here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Exsys-EX-1096-Notebook-ExpressCar d-Adapter-Karte-fur-EX-1031-32-35-41-42-45-/151438414279
Apparently all this stuff and more is available direct from distributor (and cheaper) here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1035.html
This looks neat! An all in one box big enough to house 4 EDS'S. (Have to get host card separately...about $US35, the Expresscard host is about the same). It has an inbuilt 220 watt P/S and fan.
http://swd.de/oxid/Manufacturer/Exsys-GmbH/Expansion-Box/EXS -EX-1031.html?listtype=search&searchparam=ex%201096
PCI host card here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1094.html?listtype=search&a mp;searchparam=ex%201094
PCI-E Host card here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1095.html?listtype=search&a mp;searchparam=ex-1095
Expresscard host here (with DVI style cable):
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1096.html?listtype=search&a mp;searchparam=ex%201096
and apparently another Expresscard host, but with a 2 metre HDMI cable to connect to expansion chassis here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1097.html?listtype=search&a mp;searchparam=ex-1097
[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2015 09:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: VirtualVia PCI x4 expansion ATX Kit for PCI-E [message #108609 is a reply to message #108608] |
Fri, 06 March 2015 05:28 |
Kim W.
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia
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Senior Member |
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Hi Mike.
Was the Chassis the same unit as the EX-1031 I described in my post, or was it the base 4 PCI card mounted in your own case and P/S?
Yeah, it would suck if Wayne spent money on something that may not work. However, I think he was still willing to spend some bucks on getting his WIN7 rig up and running. In which case if he purchased a PCI host card for his XP box, and it proved to be a dud, then all is not lost.
It could be that the archaic PCI bridge driver provided with XP wasn't up to the task, but the driver in newer O/S's are much improved.
Damn, if I were more cashed up right now, I'd buy the EX-1031 and one of each of the host adapters (pci, pci-e,and expresscard), and be the guinea pig!
Hopefully more users can chime in with their experiences.
Kim
[Updated on: Fri, 06 March 2015 05:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: VirtualVia PCI x4 expansion ATX Kit for PCI-E [message #108612 is a reply to message #108611] |
Fri, 06 March 2015 15:45 |
Wayne
Messages: 205
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Hi guys,
I'll be the guinney. I will purchase one PCI and one PCIe host card and the EX-1035 (board alone) and not EX-1031 chassis from SWD although I really like the 1031. I have an ATX box and 500w PS to use. I have 4 good EDS to test. I'll start with 1, then 2, then 3 and if solid try the 4th. All this will be tested on the XPs. I'll start on one system at a time and see how far I get. I'll post in depth the comp specs of each as I proceed.
I assume this will take about a month from order to receipt to testing and my gigging and studio schedule.
Note: On a post from Daniel (post is EXsys (closed)) approx. 20 posts earlier on this main forum said he had a problem with the 1031 with more than 2 cards BSOD. This chassis does look nice and might work with a beefed up PS. Everything inside seems the same except it adds a fan.
Thanks for adding your insights.
Wayne
[Updated on: Fri, 06 March 2015 15:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: VirtualVia PCI x4 expansion ATX Kit for PCI-E [message #108617 is a reply to message #108612] |
Sun, 08 March 2015 09:59 |
Kim W.
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia
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Senior Member |
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Hmm. The plot thickens...
There is an interesting discussion about the Virtua via and Exsys 4-pci backplanes here:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/346311-virtu avia-pci-expansions-good-alternative-overpriced-magma.html
A couple of posts are hinting that the onboard 3.3v and 5v voltage regulators are underpowered, thereby limiting the number of pci cards that can be used. (Particularly if they are high power devices such as DSP cards.)
Some people have had hit-and-miss success by using premium 700watt supplies, but the evidence is inconclusive.
I rather suspect that a modification may indeed be required to the backplane board, to get 4 EDS cards working.
The biggest clue comes from this post:
"Hi all,
Sorry that I have been in and out of this discussion.
My guess as to why so many people have had issues with the Virtua Via chassis,kit,power supplies, ATX, etc is that simply connecting a larger power supply to the Virtua circuit board will not give reliable results.... This is why....
The Virtua Via backplane circuit board is fitted with two low power voltage regulator IC's ....
1) +3.3 VDC regulator (1084)
and
1) +5 VDC regulator (2596)
In order to supply enough current to the PCI cards(Protools HD, UAD-1, etc) these IC's need to be bypassed out of the circuit path!!
DON'T TRY THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING... and please don't get mad at me if the smoke comes out!
This is what I followed from the UAD forum(you will have to join to be able to download the guide files with pictures)
Thanks to the Aussie fellow Markus for his tenacity and knowledge.
UAD Forums • View topic - How to get the VirtuaVia box working with multiple UAD cards
(DEAD LINK HERE:) http://www.studionu.com/uadforums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9 404
With computer as we all know there are many variables, but in my personal experience the PCI spec is pretty universal within revisions...
Good luck!
AL
p.s. I have used my rig for quite a few paying sessions... though I am more a professional musician and writer than one booking studio time to make my ends meet...
My feelings regarding The Magma offerrings.... I have payed the Magma price in the days of MixPlus... and it worked and was expensive(it was a 2 slot that actually had a third slot with a warning sticker over it that I blew -off and had a 3-slot portable for the mere price of $1250.00 which was still a heck of a lot of money after evertything else was bought...
I would still love to get hold of one of those boards. It shouldn't be too difficult to upgrade the offending regulators...
Kim
[Updated on: Sun, 08 March 2015 10:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: VirtualVia PCI x4 expansion ATX Kit for PCI-E [message #108618 is a reply to message #108617] |
Sun, 08 March 2015 10:52 |
mikeaudet
Messages: 474
Registered: February 2009
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Senior Member |
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Hi Kim,
I just took a look at my Virtua Via chassis, and the 1084 chip is definitely there. My eyesight isn't good enough to read the numbers on the other chip by the power connector.
If I read the data sheet right, the LM2596 will only output 3 amps, which at 5 volts wouldn't even power a single EDS card.
I suspect that these regulators are there to protect the bridge chips on the backplane and are not even connected to the PCI slots at all.
I've had 4 EDS 100 cards working in my Virtua Via backplate, and the only issue I ran into was clocking related. I really believe that PARIS requires an interface on every card when using an external clock, and I only had three interfaces connected. I've been meaning to try picking up a 442 ever since. There were no power related problems.
The issue this guy had with his Pro Tools cards could have been a million things. Over the years, the 5 volt lead on power supplies has been providing less and less current because new hardware doesn't use it. 700 watts may seem like a lot, but if the power supply can only put out 80 watts on the 5 volt lead, that may not be enough for the cards he was trying. This is just a guess, of course.
Digidesign also has a history of cards that only work in certain computers.
I hope this helps.
Mike
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