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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86156 is a reply to message #86153] |
Tue, 05 June 2007 22:00   |
![dc[3] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "dc[3] is currently offline")
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Sandy Burglar was just as guilty and just as arrogant.
I don't care about Libby, if he lied he can go to prison, but Sandy got
away with murder.
I used to do archival work and NO ONE walks out of an archive
with documents in their socks who does not have larceny in their
hearts. His excuses were as laughable as Clintons... Maybe moreso.
DC
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week of
>Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie under
>oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and the
>sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
officer,
>who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and probably
>guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>
>If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does that
>mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>
>TCB
>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>
>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86158 is a reply to message #86153] |
Tue, 05 June 2007 22:13 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thad,
I'm not saying that Libby didn't do anything criminal. AFAIK, maybe he
should have gotten 5 years. Lying to a grand jury is a big deal and those
who do it should be nailed. I don't think our court system has gone
completely off the deep end on that particular case, but what Berger did was
so criminal that it defies all logic that the guy shouldn't have been given
20 years in Leavenworth and it really makes me wonder WTF is going on when
he skates with a disbarment, a $250k fine and probation. Both of those are
pretty stiff penalties for someone of lesser means, but the punishment he
received would not dissuade another rich shill like Berger for taking a
bullet for his boss......especially if/when the boss is Billary (now in the
guise of "Hilbilly")
You still diggin that Liquidmix thang? We need to "talk some DAW" soon. I'm
specing out a new workhorse that has enough bandwidth (I think) to push 4 x
UAD-1's, 3 x RME HDSP's and a Duende or Liquidmix (or maybe both). I'm going
to need a PCIe FW card for this. what are you using for your LM?
Deej
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46663c4d$1@linux...
>
> Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week of
> Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie under
> oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and the
> sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
> officer,
> who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
> recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and
> probably
> guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>
> If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does that
> mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>
> TCB
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>
>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86159 is a reply to message #86153] |
Tue, 05 June 2007 22:33 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You don't sentence people for being arrogant. If we did, you, me and every
judge and attorney would be behind bars. The prosecutor knew where the leak
came from before ever questioning Libby. They were on a political witch
hunt. There was no crime. They trapped him in what is perceived to be a
crime of perjury. It's questionable, and the punishment is extreme.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week of
>Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie under
>oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and the
>sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
officer,
>who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and probably
>guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>
>If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does that
>mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>
>TCB
>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>
>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86171 is a reply to message #86159] |
Wed, 06 June 2007 00:07 |
xpam_mark
Messages: 126
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James, you're wrong about that. A belief that judges cannot and do not
willfully err is at least as innacurate as you are correct that arrogance
exists behind the bench... the same arrogance you believe has no affect on a
sentencing handed out by one arrogant judge.
And I am talking about first world democracies as are you. Any attorney
will tell you that a judge will refute the sky being blue if he wants to.
Judges can and do rescind jury convicted criminals and in like manner but
thay can't sentence someone found not guilty. The latter being the case, if
a judge wants to he may control the courtroom in such a way as to shape
argument in such a way as to cause a conviction that would not otherwise
occur were he truly neutral on guilt or innocense.
I'll give you an example of how both attorneys and judges can and do
manipulate the course of a criminal preceding before it even begins. This
is not meant to offend anyone here but I have had atty's tell me (and judges
confirm their knowledge of the practice) that in a case where they know
their client is guilty, the best thing a defense atty can hope for is a
naturally red-headed female juror. The tested theory being that when a
unanimous jury vote is required for murder (as an example) conviction, a
red-headed female will, 9 of 10 times, go against the rest of the jury and
defeat the possibility of a unanimous decision. Judges know this and
participate in the inclusion or exclusion of such jurors. One example of
many, many.
W
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4666471f$1@linux...
>
> You don't sentence people for being arrogant. If we did, you, me and
> every
> judge and attorney would be behind bars. The prosecutor knew where the
> leak
> came from before ever questioning Libby. They were on a political witch
> hunt. There was no crime. They trapped him in what is perceived to be a
> crime of perjury. It's questionable, and the punishment is extreme.
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week of
>>Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie under
>>oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and the
>>sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
> officer,
>>who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>>recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and
>>probably
>>guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>>
>>If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does that
>>mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86174 is a reply to message #86171] |
Wed, 06 June 2007 00:36 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I totally agree with you. Let me restate my comment. Your not supposed to
sentence people for being arrogant. Is that Better?: )
Our justice system is a total joke. I know this first hand!
"W. Mark Wilson" <xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote:
>James, you're wrong about that. A belief that judges cannot and do not
>willfully err is at least as innacurate as you are correct that arrogance
>exists behind the bench... the same arrogance you believe has no affect
on a
>sentencing handed out by one arrogant judge.
>
>And I am talking about first world democracies as are you. Any attorney
>will tell you that a judge will refute the sky being blue if he wants to.
>Judges can and do rescind jury convicted criminals and in like manner but
>thay can't sentence someone found not guilty. The latter being the case,
if
>a judge wants to he may control the courtroom in such a way as to shape
>argument in such a way as to cause a conviction that would not otherwise
>occur were he truly neutral on guilt or innocense.
>
>I'll give you an example of how both attorneys and judges can and do
>manipulate the course of a criminal preceding before it even begins. This
>is not meant to offend anyone here but I have had atty's tell me (and judges
>confirm their knowledge of the practice) that in a case where they know
>their client is guilty, the best thing a defense atty can hope for is a
>naturally red-headed female juror. The tested theory being that when a
>unanimous jury vote is required for murder (as an example) conviction, a
>red-headed female will, 9 of 10 times, go against the rest of the jury and
>defeat the possibility of a unanimous decision. Judges know this and
>participate in the inclusion or exclusion of such jurors. One example of
>many, many.
>
>W
>
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:4666471f$1@linux...
>>
>> You don't sentence people for being arrogant. If we did, you, me and
>> every
>> judge and attorney would be behind bars. The prosecutor knew where the
>> leak
>> came from before ever questioning Libby. They were on a political witch
>> hunt. There was no crime. They trapped him in what is perceived to be
a
>> crime of perjury. It's questionable, and the punishment is extreme.
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week
of
>>>Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie under
>>>oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and
the
>>>sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
>> officer,
>>>who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>>>recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and
>>>probably
>>>guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>>>
>>>If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does that
>>>mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86197 is a reply to message #86158] |
Wed, 06 June 2007 07:41 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It depends on what you think of Scooter. I think that a combination of Rove/Cheney/Rice
intentionally outed two active CIA case workers. I think Scooter helped them,
and was the best fall guy they had. In doing so they also outed at least
one CIA front company used for overseas cover, probably also used by other
case workers. I think up to that point we're swimming in waters of great
likelihood. If that is all more or less true, any foreign intelligence agency
with a double digit average IQ and a working cell phone could find out a
number of people in their country working for the CIA. What do you think
happened to those people? What happened to the credibility of the next generation
of case officers to tell a potential spy for the US, 'We don't play politics,
we'll get you out if my cover is blown, you have the promise of the US government
that there is no higher priority for our intelligence gathering.'
Not using the LM much yet. We're still mostly in the tracking stages. I'm
going to start editing drums this weekend and maybe I'll play a little with
it then. However, the bits and pieces I've used it on so far I gotta say
I'm impressed.
TCB
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Thad,
>
>I'm not saying that Libby didn't do anything criminal. AFAIK, maybe he
>should have gotten 5 years. Lying to a grand jury is a big deal and those
>who do it should be nailed. I don't think our court system has gone
>completely off the deep end on that particular case, but what Berger did
was
>so criminal that it defies all logic that the guy shouldn't have been given
>20 years in Leavenworth and it really makes me wonder WTF is going on when
>he skates with a disbarment, a $250k fine and probation. Both of those are
>pretty stiff penalties for someone of lesser means, but the punishment he
>received would not dissuade another rich shill like Berger for taking a
>bullet for his boss......especially if/when the boss is Billary (now in
the
>guise of "Hilbilly")
>
>You still diggin that Liquidmix thang? We need to "talk some DAW" soon.
I'm
>specing out a new workhorse that has enough bandwidth (I think) to push
4 x
>UAD-1's, 3 x RME HDSP's and a Duende or Liquidmix (or maybe both). I'm going
>to need a PCIe FW card for this. what are you using for your LM?
>
>Deej
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46663c4d$1@linux...
>>
>> Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week
of
>> Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie under
>> oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and
the
>> sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
>> officer,
>> who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>> recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and
>> probably
>> guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>>
>> If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does that
>> mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86200 is a reply to message #86197] |
Wed, 06 June 2007 08:25 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
First he wasn't the one that leaked it. You think a lot of things, and your
jumping to a lot of conclusions. If the press is knowingly doing harm, where
is the responsibility of the press in all of this? By the way, she was a
desk clerk at the time, not a field agent.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>It depends on what you think of Scooter. I think that a combination of Rove/Cheney/Rice
>intentionally outed two active CIA case workers. I think Scooter helped
them,
>and was the best fall guy they had. In doing so they also outed at least
>one CIA front company used for overseas cover, probably also used by other
>case workers. I think up to that point we're swimming in waters of great
>likelihood. If that is all more or less true, any foreign intelligence agency
>with a double digit average IQ and a working cell phone could find out a
>number of people in their country working for the CIA. What do you think
>happened to those people? What happened to the credibility of the next generation
>of case officers to tell a potential spy for the US, 'We don't play politics,
>we'll get you out if my cover is blown, you have the promise of the US government
>that there is no higher priority for our intelligence gathering.'
>
>Not using the LM much yet. We're still mostly in the tracking stages. I'm
>going to start editing drums this weekend and maybe I'll play a little with
>it then. However, the bits and pieces I've used it on so far I gotta say
>I'm impressed.
>
>TCB
>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>Thad,
>>
>>I'm not saying that Libby didn't do anything criminal. AFAIK, maybe he
>>should have gotten 5 years. Lying to a grand jury is a big deal and those
>
>>who do it should be nailed. I don't think our court system has gone
>>completely off the deep end on that particular case, but what Berger did
>was
>>so criminal that it defies all logic that the guy shouldn't have been given
>
>>20 years in Leavenworth and it really makes me wonder WTF is going on when
>
>>he skates with a disbarment, a $250k fine and probation. Both of those
are
>
>>pretty stiff penalties for someone of lesser means, but the punishment
he
>
>>received would not dissuade another rich shill like Berger for taking a
>
>>bullet for his boss......especially if/when the boss is Billary (now in
>the
>>guise of "Hilbilly")
>>
>>You still diggin that Liquidmix thang? We need to "talk some DAW" soon.
>I'm
>>specing out a new workhorse that has enough bandwidth (I think) to push
>4 x
>>UAD-1's, 3 x RME HDSP's and a Duende or Liquidmix (or maybe both). I'm
going
>
>>to need a PCIe FW card for this. what are you using for your LM?
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46663c4d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week
>of
>>> Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie
under
>>> oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and
>the
>>> sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
>
>>> officer,
>>> who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>>> recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and
>>> probably
>>> guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>>>
>>> If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does
that
>>> mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: ....and Sandy Berger's not [message #86205 is a reply to message #86200] |
Wed, 06 June 2007 08:53 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Case officer, James, not agent. Agents are the foreigners they recruit, they
CIA people doing the recruiting are case officers. And yes, she was at a
desk at the time it happened, everyone gets pulled back to work at Langley
sometimes and they almost always despise it. But it wouldn't take much ingenuity
knowing she had been a case officer working for a particular front company
to figure out other people involved.
And if you want to hang Robert Novak by the nuts be my guest. I'm sure you'd
be howling for blood if Al Gore's office had outed a CIA officer actively
working in counter terrorism to Anderson Cooper.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>First he wasn't the one that leaked it. You think a lot of things, and
your
>jumping to a lot of conclusions. If the press is knowingly doing harm,
where
>is the responsibility of the press in all of this? By the way, she was
a
>desk clerk at the time, not a field agent.
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>It depends on what you think of Scooter. I think that a combination of
Rove/Cheney/Rice
>>intentionally outed two active CIA case workers. I think Scooter helped
>them,
>>and was the best fall guy they had. In doing so they also outed at least
>>one CIA front company used for overseas cover, probably also used by other
>>case workers. I think up to that point we're swimming in waters of great
>>likelihood. If that is all more or less true, any foreign intelligence
agency
>>with a double digit average IQ and a working cell phone could find out
a
>>number of people in their country working for the CIA. What do you think
>>happened to those people? What happened to the credibility of the next
generation
>>of case officers to tell a potential spy for the US, 'We don't play politics,
>>we'll get you out if my cover is blown, you have the promise of the US
government
>>that there is no higher priority for our intelligence gathering.'
>>
>>Not using the LM much yet. We're still mostly in the tracking stages. I'm
>>going to start editing drums this weekend and maybe I'll play a little
with
>>it then. However, the bits and pieces I've used it on so far I gotta say
>>I'm impressed.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>Thad,
>>>
>>>I'm not saying that Libby didn't do anything criminal. AFAIK, maybe he
>
>>>should have gotten 5 years. Lying to a grand jury is a big deal and those
>>
>>>who do it should be nailed. I don't think our court system has gone
>>>completely off the deep end on that particular case, but what Berger did
>>was
>>>so criminal that it defies all logic that the guy shouldn't have been
given
>>
>>>20 years in Leavenworth and it really makes me wonder WTF is going on
when
>>
>>>he skates with a disbarment, a $250k fine and probation. Both of those
>are
>>
>>>pretty stiff penalties for someone of lesser means, but the punishment
>he
>>
>>>received would not dissuade another rich shill like Berger for taking
a
>>
>>>bullet for his boss......especially if/when the boss is Billary (now in
>>the
>>>guise of "Hilbilly")
>>>
>>>You still diggin that Liquidmix thang? We need to "talk some DAW" soon.
>>I'm
>>>specing out a new workhorse that has enough bandwidth (I think) to push
>>4 x
>>>UAD-1's, 3 x RME HDSP's and a Duende or Liquidmix (or maybe both). I'm
>going
>>
>>>to need a PCIe FW card for this. what are you using for your LM?
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46663c4d$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Deeh, you're a good guy but I'm sorry this doesn't pass the first week
>>of
>>>> Logic 101. Maybe Berger should be in jail, but Libby didn't just lie
>under
>>>> oath, he went out of his way to be arrogant both during the trial and
>>the
>>>> sentencing hearings. The judge sentenced him to more than the probation
>>
>>>> officer,
>>>> who draws up sentencing recommendations for the judge in a federal case,
>>>> recommended. That means the judge thought he was guilty as sin, and
>>>> probably
>>>> guilty of other stuff he perjured about.
>>>>
>>>> If someone put Crash into a dog pit fight and got away with it, does
>that
>>>> mean other people who run dog pits shouldn't be convicted of cruelty?
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>>How fuckin' ridiculous is that?
>>>>>
>>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4665ba2e@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIPOLG2&show_a rticle=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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