Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Apogee with Core audio - low latency breakthrough or markeing hype?
| Re: Apogee with Core audio - low latency breakthrough or markeing [message #96427 is a reply to message #96421] |
Fri, 29 February 2008 19:44   |
|
|
will do..But, can you read this..
Fuck Off!!
"alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>whatever. by the way, can you please turn on your spell checking.Its really
>hard reading your posts.
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47c82f61$1@linux...
>>
>> Look, I'm not trying to sell you on Pro Tools, just stating that you 100K
>> math was off..
>>
>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>well , DUH! thanks for the info Lamont. Im going out today and getting
a
>> pro
>>>tools rig! Im convinced ,OK?
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47c7503f$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Hey Alex, thats the beauty of DSP based rigs, you don't have to
>>>> necessarily
>>>> have upgrade to the lastest and greatest Mac..or Pc..
>>>>
>>>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>>my math was following every upgrade as they were available.including
the
>>>>
>>>>>overpriced macs needed to run it.
>>>>>someone jumping in today wouldn't see those incremental costs. what
kind
>>>> of
>>>>>"math" are you using?
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47c70cf7$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey ..the RME /Steinberg route is very nice and very Powerful. I think
>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> you need to redo your math on the 100k digi upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went from a audiomedia (still have) to Pro Tools 001(cost 400.00)
>> From
>>>>>> there, toa Mix Plus..Cost (great deal $3,800 with 1622
>>>>>> interface)...From
>>>>>> there..HD2acel..cost $6,500.00 with -1-192.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see where 100k comes in. Nor do I know of any of my buddies
>> who
>>>>
>>>>>> spent
>>>>>> 100k in upgrading their PT DAWS..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>I have a digi nubus soundesigner ll card.$1100)If I followed the digi
>>>>>>>upgrade train from that point (1994),I would have lost about $100K
in
>>>> yet
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>more useless obsolete basement clogging shit.I have no regrets in
>>>>>>>following
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>RME/Steinberg.It works for me.
>>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:47c57a5a$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Glad I still get name checked every now and then ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still think native is the way to go unless someone is running
a
>> big
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> hire room, and let's face it more of those are shutting down than
>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One thing about the RME mixer, it shouldn't be changed at all. It's
>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> flexible, powerful audio interface mixer I've ever seen. It's
>>>>>>>> incredibly
>>>>>>>> easy to use, just a little tricky to learn. I'll take that over
a
>>>>>>>> photorealistic
>>>>>>>> mixer that's less powerful any day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then again, I'm a linux geek. Then again, so are the RME guys.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thank you Chris for stating what I have been saying for years now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>All this tech talk :($$$$$$$$$$) about low latency on native
>>>>>>>>>solutions,
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>very costly AND, I might add, as Thad has said on numerous
>>>>>>>>>ocassions,
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>gained nothing!! due to that fact that we are all beholding to MS
>>>>>>>>>Vista/XP
>>>>>>>>>and OSX..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On the Nuendo.com website 10 mile post on system performance specs
>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>sickening!.
>>>>>>>>>Who cares? All, one should want is
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>A stable running system, that performes the task thats needed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I'm with the get Protools HD(X) and be done with it. There are those
>>>> on
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>and other sites how have sunk major$$$$ trying to "perice-Mill_
a
>>>>>>>>>working
>>>>>>>>>DAW hat outperforms ProTools HD. That's cool, but I would these
>>>>>>>>>folks
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>spent "More" money than just buying a super hot-rod ProTools HD6..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Note: Out 2 HD rigs on G5's also run Nuendo(Via Digis Asio
>>>>>>>>>drivers)..Runs
>>>>>>>>>great, and is as stable as ever. I can mix a 70 track project with
>>
>>>>>>>>>alot
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>plugins on that baby. So, Getting a ProTools HD rig is not 'So
>>>>>>>>>Closed"
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>some here believes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Back to the subject:
>>>>>>>>>If you were to do a search on Gearslutz on the symphony, yoou'd
see
>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>I slammed that card saying that "for a 1k or even 700 dollars, "What
>>>> am
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>getting".. No DSP, nothing but a glorified half baked mixer that
>>>>>>>>>allows
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>to play itunes .. Not impressed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>While we're onthe subject, I think RME's total mix should be
>>>>>>>>>simplified
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>Motu's MkIII DSP cue mixer app. Simple, yet very powerful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now look at all of us-you who have stayed on the PC/Mac upgrade
>>>>>>>>>bandwagon.
>>>>>>>>>Spent $$$ major money chasing the zero latency Native dream..Only
>> to
>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>into the win XP/Vista brick wall of doom..
>>>>>>>>>The lie of the 64 bit dream.. Dual core this and that..SHAM!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>My Win ME Paris (4 card) rig still is as stable as it ever was.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>All in all, it's your money, spend it how you may, but one thing
is
>>>> for
>>>>>>>> sure,
>>>>>>>>>If are working on a major lable recording, it better be delivered
>> in
>>>>>>>>>ProTools..
>>>>>>>>>You want a job working a sudio or media house, you better know Pro
>>>>>>>>>Tools..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So, we can sit hear discussing Native torture test wasting
>>>>>>>>>time(IMHO)
>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>a vialble solution is already on the market that can be had these
>> days
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>under 10k..belive it or not.hat yields a very polished sound, very
>>
>>>>>>>>>very
>>>>>>>> flexible
>>>>>>>>>i/o routing for hardware owners..super low-latency that allows you
>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>track
>>>>>>>>>and mixrealtime live sessions..and oh yeah.. Super stable..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So, just look at the reciepts from the last 5 years on or Native
>>>>>>>>>Dream
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>journey
>>>>>>>>>and add em up. Then, add up all those clients who utter that all
>>>>>>>>>familiar
>>>>>>>>>phrase" Do you have Pro Tools"?..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I guess it comes down to is his this: Are you in the game or are
you
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>not?
>>>>>>>>>Simple..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Hi Dedric,
>>>>>>>>>>Apogee is doing nothing that hasn't been done by RME and Lynx for
>>
>>>>>>>>>>going
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>on 3 years now on PC and now on Intel Macs.
>>>>>>>>>>If I want a proprietary hardware system I'd just buy Pro Tools
and
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>done with it.
>>>>>>>>>>Now that RME and Lynx are starting to release PCI-e cards the
>>>>>>>>>>Symphony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>looks less and less attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>Not really sure what is good about it. Only thing I could see is
>> it
>>>>>>>>>>being the first PCI-e card for the MAC.
>>>>>>>>>>About the only fair comparison would be between and RME Madi card
>> at
>>>>>> 96k
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>and see how it compares against the Symphony numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>They both at this point would need to be running Logic 8 on Leopard
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>be accurate.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I like that Apogee doesn't post the test session on the web site
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>users to down load.
>>>>>>>>>>It would be the fair way for people to see what the card can do
>>>>>>>>>>compared
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>to the card they are using now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Sorta reminds me of the vague claims Rain Recording made about
>>>>>>>>>>Vista
>>>>>>>>>>with nothing to back it up other than Microsoft and Cakewalk press
>>>>>>>>>>releases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6693909#6 693909
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (should
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> take you to the next to last post on that page)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Apogee's numbers are only while tracking. Sounds
like
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> only posted part of the story with their great low latency
>>>>>>>>>>> figures.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is hard to say if this is the case for everyone though, except
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apogee's response when the user called, but since I brought it
>> up
>>>> in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the Vista thread, I thought I would pass it along to try and
sort
>>>>>>>>>>> through marketing myth and real world facts. I was actually
kind
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hoping the Apogee Symphony would smoke at low latency with Core
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and any app, just because it would be cool to have such a
>>>>>>>>>>> breakthrough, but this really just shows that ASIO is pushing
the
>>>>>>>>>>> limits of current OSs already, and we haven't really exceeded
it
>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The reports on Nuendo performance is quite a bit faster on XP
and
>>>>>>>>>>> ASIO2, but it's running fine at low latency on
>>>>>>>>>>> OSX/core audio - just about 20-30% higher (my adjusted
>>>>>>>>>>> estimate) plugin load on the same hardware, same latency: it's
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 76 Nuendo multiband comps at 64 samples on XP/ASIO, vs 45 on
>>>>>>>>>>> OSX/core
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> audio at 64, which is almost 50% more, but I'm assuming there
are
>>>>>>>>>>> other plugins in that benchmark test to compensate for, and vary
>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of that loading (I'll have to find out for sure when I have more
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> time)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - same dual quad hardware configs in both cases. I don't know
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> sure if some of this is Nuendo not being optimized for the lower
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OSX code base (maybe already), or still on Cocoa or whatever
-
>> or
>>>> if
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it is truly a limitation of OSX and core audio. Based on the
>>>>>>>>>>> Logic
>>>>>>>>>>> thread, the latter seems to have a bit more weight than it being
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> Nuendo-only performance issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fwiw,
>>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>>>>>>>>ADK
>>>>>>>>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>>>>>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>(859) 635-5762
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
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| Re: Apogee with Core audio - low latency breakthrough or markeing [message #96428 is a reply to message #96426] |
Fri, 29 February 2008 20:23 |
|
|
Fisrt off, I apologize for my last post.. second..If you subscribe to Sweerwaters
gear 2007 catalogs..you will see on page 126 thru 130 the different PT packages.
For 100k, aka dream package..you get hd3 acel..With(4) io units..a slew of
high end mic ppres..high end mics..pair os adam s3as..a pair of jbl lrs..tack
mounts storage..a mac pro quad ..montor..and a slw of the best tdm plugins
on the market...ahhh for a fall 75k..you get a hd3 acel.base 4 control mixer
some base plug..no mac..
"alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>I actually sent an email to digi requesting price lists since 1994.ill keep
>you posted.I consider it my duty.
>I couldn't find the older lists on their support site.
>unless someone else here has kept copies of that shit , I see no other
way
>to know the cost.
>ill keep you posted.
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:47c8a083$1@linux...
>>
>> He's typing in Pro-Tools... that doesn't have spell-check
>> (but you CAN get it in a free VST plugin for Native apps!)
>>
>> :)
>>
>>
>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>whatever. by the way, can you please turn on your spell checking.Its
>>>really
>>
>>>hard reading your posts.
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47c82f61$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Look, I'm not trying to sell you on Pro Tools, just stating that you
>>>> 100K
>>>> math was off..
>>>>
>>>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>>well , DUH! thanks for the info Lamont. Im going out today and getting
>> a
>>>> pro
>>>>>tools rig! Im convinced ,OK?
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47c7503f$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Alex, thats the beauty of DSP based rigs, you don't have to
>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>> have upgrade to the lastest and greatest Mac..or Pc..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>my math was following every upgrade as they were available.including
>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>overpriced macs needed to run it.
>>>>>>>someone jumping in today wouldn't see those incremental costs. what
>> kind
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>"math" are you using?
>>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47c70cf7$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey ..the RME /Steinberg route is very nice and very Powerful. I
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> you need to redo your math on the 100k digi upgrade.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I went from a audiomedia (still have) to Pro Tools 001(cost 400.00)
>>>> From
>>>>>>>> there, toa Mix Plus..Cost (great deal $3,800 with 1622
>>>>>>>> interface)...From
>>>>>>>> there..HD2acel..cost $6,500.00 with -1-192.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't see where 100k comes in. Nor do I know of any of my buddies
>>>> who
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>>>> 100k in upgrading their PT DAWS..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "alex plasko" <alex.plasko@snet.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>I have a digi nubus soundesigner ll card.$1100)If I followed the
>>>>>>>>>digi
>>>>>>>>>upgrade train from that point (1994),I would have lost about $100K
>> in
>>>>>> yet
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>more useless obsolete basement clogging shit.I have no regrets in
>>>>>>>>>following
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>RME/Steinberg.It works for me.
>>>>>>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:47c57a5a$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Glad I still get name checked every now and then ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I still think native is the way to go unless someone is running
>> a
>>>> big
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> hire room, and let's face it more of those are shutting down than
>>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One thing about the RME mixer, it shouldn't be changed at all.
>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>> flexible, powerful audio interface mixer I've ever seen. It's
>>>>>>>>>> incredibly
>>>>>>>>>> easy to use, just a little tricky to learn. I'll take that over
>> a
>>>>>>>>>> photorealistic
>>>>>>>>>> mixer that's less powerful any day.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then again, I'm a linux geek. Then again, so are the RME guys.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thank you Chris for stating what I have been saying for years
now.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>All this tech talk :($$$$$$$$$$) about low latency on native
>>>>>>>>>>>solutions,
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>very costly AND, I might add, as Thad has said on numerous
>>>>>>>>>>>ocassions,
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>gained nothing!! due to that fact that we are all beholding to
MS
>>>>>>>>>>>Vista/XP
>>>>>>>>>>>and OSX..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On the Nuendo.com website 10 mile post on system performance specs
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>sickening!.
>>>>>>>>>>>Who cares? All, one should want is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>A stable running system, that performes the task thats needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I'm with the get Protools HD(X) and be done with it. There are
>>>>>>>>>>>those
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>and other sites how have sunk major$$$$ trying to "perice-Mill_
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>working
>>>>>>>>>>>DAW hat outperforms ProTools HD. That's cool, but I would these
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>folks
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>spent "More" money than just buying a super hot-rod ProTools HD6..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Note: Out 2 HD rigs on G5's also run Nuendo(Via Digis Asio
>>>>>>>>>>>drivers)..Runs
>>>>>>>>>>>great, and is as stable as ever. I can mix a 70 track project
with
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>alot
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>plugins on that baby. So, Getting a ProTools HD rig is not 'So
>>>>>>>>>>>Closed"
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>some here believes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Back to the subject:
>>>>>>>>>>>If you were to do a search on Gearslutz on the symphony, yoou'd
>> see
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>I slammed that card saying that "for a 1k or even 700 dollars,
>>>>>>>>>>>"What
>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>getting".. No DSP, nothing but a glorified half baked mixer that
>>>>>>>>>>>allows
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>to play itunes .. Not impressed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>While we're onthe subject, I think RME's total mix should be
>>>>>>>>>>>simplified
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>Motu's MkIII DSP cue mixer app. Simple, yet very powerful.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now look at all of us-you who have stayed on the PC/Mac upgrade
>>>>>>>>>>>bandwagon.
>>>>>>>>>>>Spent $$$ major money chasing the zero latency Native dream..Only
>>>> to
>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>into the win XP/Vista brick wall of doom..
>>>>>>>>>>>The lie of the 64 bit dream.. Dual core this and that..SHAM!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>My Win ME Paris (4 card) rig still is as stable as it ever was.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>All in all, it's your money, spend it how you may, but one thing
>> is
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> sure,
>>>>>>>>>>>If are working on a major lable recording, it better be delivered
>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>ProTools..
>>>>>>>>>>>You want a job working a sudio or media house, you better know
Pro
>>>>>>>>>>>Tools..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>So, we can sit hear discussing Native torture test wasting
>>>>>>>>>>>time(IMHO)
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>a vialble solution is already on the market that can be had these
>>>> days
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>under 10k..belive it or not.hat yields a very polished sound,
very
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>very
>>>>>>>>>> flexible
>>>>>>>>>>>i/o routing for hardware owners..super low-latency that allows
you
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>track
>>>>>>>>>>>and mixrealtime live sessions..and oh yeah.. Super stable..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>So, just look at the reciepts from the last 5 years on or Native
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Dream
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>journey
>>>>>>>>>>>and add em up. Then, add up all those clients who utter that all
>>>>>>>>>>>familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>phrase" Do you have Pro Tools"?..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I guess it comes down to is his this: Are you in the game or are
>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>not?
>>>>>>>>>>>Simple..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Dedric,
>>>>>>>>>>>>Apogee is doing nothing that hasn't been done by RME and Lynx
for
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>going
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>on 3 years now on PC and now on Intel Macs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>If I want a proprietary hardware system I'd just buy Pro Tools
>> and
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>done with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Now that RME and Lynx are starting to release PCI-e cards the
>>>>>>>>>>>>Symphony
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>looks less and less attractive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Not really sure what is good about it. Only thing I could see
is
>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>being the first PCI-e card for the MAC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>About the only fair comparison would be between and RME Madi
card
>>>> at
>>>>>>>> 96k
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>and see how it compares against the Symphony numbers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>They both at this point would need to be running Logic 8 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>Leopard
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>be accurate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I like that Apogee doesn't post the test session on the web site
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>users to down load.
>>>>>>>>>>>>It would be the fair way for people to see what the card can
do
>>>>>>>>>>>>compared
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>to the card they are using now.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Sorta reminds me of the vague claims Rain Recording made about
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Vista
>>>>>>>>>>>>with nothing to back it up other than Microsoft and Cakewalk
>>>>>>>>>>>>press
>>>>>>>>>>>>releases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6693909#6 693909
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (should
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take you to the next to last post on that page)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently Apogee's numbers are only while tracking. Sounds
>> like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only posted part of the story with their great low latency
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figures.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is hard to say if this is the case for everyone though,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> except
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apogee's response when the user called, but since I brought
it
>>>> up
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Vista thread, I thought I would pass it along to try and
>> sort
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through marketing myth and real world facts. I was actually
>> kind
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping the Apogee Symphony would smoke at low latency with
Core
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and any app, just because it would be cool to have such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakthrough, but this really just shows that ASIO is pushing
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> limits of current OSs already, and we haven't really exceeded
>> it
>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The reports on Nuendo performance is quite a bit faster on
XP
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASIO2, but it's running fine at low latency on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSX/core audio - just about 20-30% higher (my adjusted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> estimate) plugin load on the same hardware, same latency: it's
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 76 Nuendo multiband comps at 64 samples on XP/ASIO, vs 45 on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSX/core
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio at 64, which is almost 50% more, but I'm assuming there
>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other plugins in that benchmark test to compensate for, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vary
>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of that loading (I'll have to find out for sure when I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - same dual quad hardware configs in both cases. I don't know
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure if some of this is Nuendo not being optimized for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lower
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSX code base (maybe already), or still on Cocoa or whatever
>> -
>>>> or
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is truly a limitation of OSX and core audio. Based on the
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Logic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread, the latter seems to have a bit more weight than it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nuendo-only performance issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fwiw,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>>>>>>>>>>ADK
>>>>>>>>>>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>(859) 635-5762
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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