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| Re: I hate winter... [message #95208 is a reply to message #95204] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 09:51   |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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James McCloskey wrote:
> Yep, those scientist don't know what they are talking about,
If you're looking for the opinion of scientists, here's a start:
From the American Physical Society
http://www.aps.org/policy/statements/07_1.cfm
"Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the
atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases
include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other
gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of
industrial and agricultural processes.
The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no
mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s
physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human
health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases
beginning now."
From the National Academy of Sciences
http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf
"Climate change is real:
There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system as complex as
the world’s climate. However there is now strong evidence that
significant global warming is occurring1. The evidence comes from direct
measurements of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean
temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in average global sea
levels, retreating glaciers, and changes to many physical and biological
systems. It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be
attributed to human activities (IPCC 2001)2. This warming has already
led to changes in the Earth's climate.
The existence of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is vital to life on
Earth – in their absence average temperatures would be about 30
centigrade degrees lower than they are today. But human activities are
now causing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases – including
carbon dioxide, methane, tropospheric ozone, and nitrous oxide – to rise
well above pre-industrial levels. Carbon dioxide levels have increased
from 280 ppm in 1750 to over 375 ppm today – higher than any previous
levels that can be reliably measured (i.e. in the last 420,000 years).
Increasing greenhouse gases are causing
temperatures to rise; the Earth’s surface warmed by approximately 0.6
centigrade degrees over the twentieth century. The Intergovernmental
Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected that the average global surface
temperatures will continue to increase to between 1.4 centigrade degrees
and 5.8 centigrade degrees above 1990 levels, by 2100."
From the American Geophysical Union
http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/positions/climate_change20 08.shtml
"Human Impacts on Climate:
The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many
components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the
atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers,
the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of
seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural
and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of
greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the
20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average
by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the
previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The
observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and
lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century.
Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows
warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many
physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate
change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and
summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of the
climate.
During recent millennia of relatively stable climate, civilization
became established and populations have grown rapidly. In the next 50
years, even the lower limit of impending climate change—an additional
global mean warming of 1°C above the last decade—is far beyond the range
of climate variability experienced during the past thousand years and
poses global problems in planning for and adapting to it. Warming
greater than 2°C above 19th century levels is projected to be
disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing
widespread loss of biodiversity, and—if sustained over centuries—melting
much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea level of
several meters. If this 2°C warming is to be avoided, then our net
annual emissions of CO2 must be reduced by more than 50 percent within
this century. With such projections, there are many sources of
scientific uncertainty, but none are known that could make the impact of
climate change inconsequential. Given the uncertainty in climate
projections, there can be surprises that may cause more dramatic
disruptions than anticipated from the most probable model projections.
With climate change, as with ozone depletion, the human footprint on
Earth is apparent. The cause of disruptive climate change, unlike ozone
depletion, is tied to energy use and runs through modern society.
Solutions will necessarily involve all aspects of society. Mitigation
strategies and adaptation responses will call for collaborations across
science, technology, industry, and government. Members of the AGU, as
part of the scientific community, collectively have special
responsibilities: to pursue research needed to understand it; to educate
the public on the causes, risks, and hazards; and to communicate clearly
and objectively with those who can implement policies to shape future
climate."
From The Geological Society of America
http://www.geosociety.org/positions/position10.htm
"The Geological Society of America (GSA) supports the scientific
conclusions that Earth’s climate is changing; the climate changes are
due in part to human activities; and the probable consequences of the
climate changes will be significant and blind to geopolitical
boundaries. Furthermore, the potential implications of global climate
change and the time scale over which such changes will likely occur
require active, effective, long-term planning. GSA also supports
statements on the global climate change issue made by the joint national
academies of science (June 2005), American Geophysical Union (December,
2003), and American Chemical Society (2004). GSA strongly encourages
that the following efforts be undertaken internationally: (1) adequately
research climate change at all time scales, (2) develop thoughtful,
science-based policy appropriate for the multifaceted issues of global
climate change, (3) organize global planning to recognize, prepare for,
and adapt to the causes and consequences of global climate change, and
(4) organize and develop comprehensive, long-term strategies for
sustainable energy, particularly focused on minimizing impacts on global
climate."
From the American Meteorological Society
http://www.ametsoc.org/POLICY/2007climatechange.html
"Why is climate changing?
Climate has changed throughout geological history, for many natural
reasons such as changes in the sun’s energy received by Earth arising
from slow orbital changes, or changes in the sun’s energy reaching
Earth’s surface due to volcanic eruptions. In recent decades, humans
have increasingly affected local, regional, and global climate by
altering the flows of radiative energy and water through the Earth
system (resulting in changes in temperature, winds, rainfall, etc.),
which comprises the atmosphere, land surface, vegetation, ocean, land
ice, and sea ice. Indeed, strong observational evidence and results from
modeling studies indicate that, at least over the last 50 years, human
activities are a major contributor to climate change.
Direct human impact is through changes in the concentration of certain
trace gases such as carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, methane,
nitrous oxide, ozone, and water vapor, known collectively as greenhouse
gases. Enhanced greenhouse gases have little effect on the incoming
energy of the sun, but they act as a blanket to reduce the outgoing
infrared radiation emitted by Earth and its atmosphere; the surface and
atmosphere therefore warm so as to increase the outgoing energy until
the outgoing and incoming flows of energy are equal. Carbon dioxide
accounts for about half of the human-induced greenhouse gas contribution
to warming since the late 1800s, with increases in the other greenhouse
gases accounting for the rest; changes in solar output may have provided
an augmentation to warming in the first half of the 20th century.
Carbon dioxide concentration is rising mostly as a result of fossil-fuel
burning and partly from clearing of vegetation; about 50% of the
enhanced emissions remain in the atmosphere, while the rest of the Earth
system continues to absorb the remaining 50%. In the last 50 years
atmospheric CO2 concentration has been increasing at a rate much faster
than any rates observed in the geological record of the past several
thousand years. Global annual-mean surface temperatures are rising at a
rapid rate to values higher than at any time in the last 400 (and
probably in the last 1000) years. Once introduced in the atmosphere,
carbon dioxide remains for at least a few hundred years and implies a
lengthy guarantee of sustained future warming. Further, increases in
greenhouse gases are nearly certain to produce continued increases in
temperature. Such changes in temperature lead to changes in clouds,
pressure, winds, and rainfall in a complex sequence of further effects."
Al Gore does,
> after all he invented the internet.
Here's what snopes has to say about that:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
"Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did
not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could
reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented' the
Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of
something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late
Edition" program on 9 March 1999."
Besides, Al Gore is not the point, he's just one guy. Love him or hate
him, the climate will do what it does with or without him. It's best to
look to the actual science.
Nothing like trying to shift the wealth
> of the world and making money doing it by selling global offsets and taxing
> the shit out of stupid people with a lie!
That the climate is currently changing is not a lie, it's a measurable
phenomenon we are currently experiencing on our planet.
A lot of evidence points to human contributions to the current climate
change event. So again, this is not a lie.
Your problem is with politics and economics, not with science. Blaming
the science does not help your cause. You have political and economic
objections to some of the proposed solutions, so by all means take them
on. If you don't like using a market mechanism to regulate carbon
emissions, which is just one idea that's been proposed, there are other
options on the table.
Do your best to move the solutions conversation in a direction you're
more comfortable with. But simple blanket denial of actual evidence and
peer reviewed science won't get you there.
> The Bush's, the Clinton's, and
> the Gore's are all Trilateralists, they have done a fine job of lowering
> the standard of living here in the USA! Long live the CFR, the world banks
> and man made Global warming.
You can believe what you like about all that, except that there is
actual evidence supporting human contributions to the current climate
change event. Again, ignoring evidence won't get you very far.
> By the way, if you buy the man made global warming lie, I got some swamp
> land I'd like to sell you!
You're being sold swamp land already, possibly by the fossil fuels
industry, and by people who want to maintain power and income.
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/index.html
"The Denial Machine investigates the roots of the campaign to negate the
science and the threat of global warming. It tracks the activities of a
group of scientists, some of whom previously consulted for Big Tobacco,
and who are now receiving donations from major coal and oil companies."
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/
"The database compiles Exxon Foundation and corporate funding to a
series of institutions who have worked to undermine solutions to global
warming and climate change. It details the working relationships of
individuals associated with these organizations and their global warming
quotes and deeds."
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
> it
>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>> Yep, the swindle movie is old news, we even discussed it here.
>>
>> As I mentioned at the time, it ignores the main body of peer-reviewed
>> scientific evidence for the sake of sensationalism. It was done that way
>
>> deliberately by the producers, with no attempt at an objective look at
>> the actual scientific evidence. Fair and balanced it ain't.
>>
>> I do like the breathless announcer, fast cuts and dramatic music. It's
>> always fun to see a one-sided polemic that ironically accuses others of
>
>> being one-sided. I doubt anyone here is gullible enough to take it as an
>
>> objective authority.
>>
>> But anyway, here's more (follow the links):
>>
>> From:
>> http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global -warming-swindle-so-persuasive/
>> "The fans of the film would argue that it has been effective because it
>
>> is true. But truth is not, of itself, persuasive. When we receive new
>> information on a topic we have no idea whether it is true or not. We
>> base our conclusions on how it was presented to us, whether it concurs
>> with what we already know about that topic, how far we trust the person
>
>> telling us, and how well that information fits inside our world view. We
>
>> then seek to match our initial conclusions against the conclusions of
>> our peers. So, although we think we seek truth, the process by which we
>
>> reach opinions is equally capable of leading us in the wrong direction.
>
>> It turns out that Swindle was a collection of rather crude distortions
>> in an elegant package. We now know that the data was misrepresented, the
>
>> charts re-arranged, and the interviews edited in ways that were designed
>
>> to mislead."
>>
>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindl e
>> "Although the documentary was welcomed by global warming sceptics, it
>> was criticised heavily by many scientific organisations and individual
>> scientists (including two of the film's contributors[3][4]). The film's
>
>> critics argued that it had misused data, relied on out-of-date research,
>
>> employed misleading arguments, and misrepresented the position of the
>> Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
>>
>> From: http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/7
>> "The DVD version of ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ has been
>> available for purchase since late July 2007. The front of the
>> presentation case describes it as a “documentary”, which is defined by
>> the Oxford English Dictionary as “a film or television or radio
>> programme giving a factual account of something, using film,
>> photographs, and sound recordings of real events”. However, the DVD
>> contains at least five major misrepresentations of the scientific
>> evidence and researchers’ views on climate change. This document
>> presents details of the five misrepresentations."
>>
>> From http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.p hp
>> "What we now have is an out-and-out propaganda piece, in which there is
>
>> not even a gesture toward balance or explanation of why many of the
>> extended inferences drawn in the film are not widely accepted by the
>> scientific community. There are so many examples, it's hard to know
>> where to begin, so I will cite only one: a speaker asserts, as is true,
>
>> that carbon dioxide is only a small fraction of the atmospheric mass.
>> The viewer is left to infer that means it couldn't really matter. But
>> even a beginning meteorology student could tell you that the relative
>> masses of gases are irrelevant to their effects on radiative balance. A
>
>> director not intending to produce pure propaganda would have tried to
>> eliminate that piece of disinformation.” (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/
>
>> papersonline/channel4response)"
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
> it
>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>
>>> http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warm ing-Swindle
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> "EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:479e36ad$1@linux...
>>>> Woke up this morning and the temp with wind chill was -59C >:(
>>>>
>>>> Why did I move here again???
>>>>
>>>> David.
>>>
>
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I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Mon, 28 January 2008 11:55 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 13:27 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Bill L on Mon, 28 January 2008 12:30 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:02 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:38 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:48 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:50 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:53 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Neil on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:59 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 21:56 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:49 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 20:04 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:39 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: excelav on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:03 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 09:51 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:36 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 11:16 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 22:03 |
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I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Thu, 31 January 2008 15:26 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:35 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:10 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Fri, 01 February 2008 10:40 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:57 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 11:55 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:53 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 20:31 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 23:10 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Kim on Thu, 31 January 2008 19:31 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 23:08 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Wed, 30 January 2008 02:03 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:38 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:48 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Wed, 30 January 2008 01:41 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Don Nafe on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:31 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Tue, 29 January 2008 07:45 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:41 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:50 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:42 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:56 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Thu, 31 January 2008 02:28 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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