Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » I hate winter...
| Re: I hate winter... [message #95252 is a reply to message #95245] |
Wed, 30 January 2008 02:03   |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Rich Lamanna wrote:
> Jamie, the scientists interviewed in the film are "real" scientists, some
> who had to sue the IPCC to have their names removed from the report due to
> blatant omissions of the facts.
Out of all the many scientists involved in that report, how many are you
referring to?
In fact, most of the scientists involved do not fall into that category.
It would be wise to listen to them ALL, and not simply ignore most of
the scientists as this polemic "swindle" film did. That's a clear bias.
> In fact there is not a consensus, as many
> scientists disagree as agree.
You mean to claim there's a 50/50 split among climate scientists? Sorry,
but that's not even close to true. If it WERE just a simple vote by
published scientists in the field, it would be a landslide to the
consensus. But voting doesn't matter, evidence does. And on that point,
again the consensus is on the high ground.
A large chunk of the "controversy" is due to PR and lobbying from some
of the fossil fuel companies, who are currently making record profits.
They are obviously at risk for a drop in short term profits as countries
look for alternatives that spew less greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
Hence the FUD campaign. And so some of the more prominent contrarians
have been funded from that special interest source in order to amplify
any and all objections. To create and exaggerate controversy.
Anyway, here's an overview that looks at the history and some of the
science behind the consensus view:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
> Sea levels have been rising since the last ice
> age ended, around 15,000 years ago. There were no man made CO2 generating
> factories, cars, etc.... The Bahama bank was a huge land mass, now it's a
> collection of islands. We are at the end of a warming period in the planets
> vacillating temperature cycles.
Here's the thing. Climate scientists aren't stupid. They have been
studying the history of the earth and the atmosphere very carefully in
order to find out where we are and how we got here. So it's not like
they're ignoring any of that. And still the evidence points to a strong
chance that we are contributing to the current climate change event.
Read ALL the science.
> Humans are a pimple on the ass of the earth.
Speak for yourself! ;^)
However, consider that your pimple problem can be just enough for that
cute girl to say no when you ask her out. IOW it can make a big difference.
Likewise, it doesn't take much of a change in greenhouse gases to affect
the climate.
Why? Visible light passes through the atmosphere and is absorbed by the
ground. The ground reradiates some of that energy as infrared heat.
Most of our air, about 99 percent, is nitrogen and oxygen. Infrared
energy passes through nitrogen and oxygen heading for space. If there
were no so-called "greenhouse gases," much of that heat would radiate
out into space. The earth would be a much colder planet. Too cold for
the life we know and love to survive. Including us. We wouldn't be here.
But add in that tiny, tiny percentage of greenhouse gases and things
change significantly. C02, for example, is one of the gases that absorbs
the infrared heat energy and reradiates it. In the troposphere where we
live, these sparse but effective gases heat the air and the earth by
redirecting about half of the heat toward the ground (the rest is bucket
brigaded out to space). With that extra retained heat, the ecosystems we
know and love can thrive, and we have a place to live. Great!
But very recently in our history we've started to affect the greenhouse
gas component by digging up ancient carbon and pumping some of it into
the air. Here's where extra C02 comes into the picture, a byproduct of
burning that carbon.
Remember that it doesn't take much of a change in our very minor
greenhouse gas percentage to alter how much heat is retained. In less
than a century the evidence suggests we've started bumping up the
Earth's thermostat in a measurable way.
Today we are burning a huge and growing amount of ancient hydrocarbons,
including coal and oil. We are releasing byproducts as greenhouse gases
that would otherwise largely remain sequestered underground (see the
postscript below for some oil statistics). It's a huge, uncontrolled
experiment.
Bottom line: Very minute changes in the tiny percentage of greenhouse
gases can have a large effect on climate. We are providing that change
via our appetite for unleashing ancient carbon into today's atmosphere.
And yes, it's enough to make a difference.
More about greenhouse gases:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas
> The effect mankind has on the planet is negligible.
Not true. In fact we came very close to seriously impairing the
protective ozone layer, which blocks harmful UV radiation that is
otherwise a threat to life on earth.
After changes in human behavior (banning chlorofluorocarbons) the
stratospheric ozone is still in recovery (chlorofluorocarbons take a
long time to dissipate). If memory serves, it will take more than fifty
additional years for the ozone to recover. In the mean time we still
have a large ozone hole over Antarctica to remind us of the effects we
can and do have on atmospheric chemistry.
More on the ozone layer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_layer
> If anything we should be
> more concerned about the next ice age which is guaranteed. Try to imagine
> what the earth looked like 15,000 years ago. It was covered in ice dude. I
> personally prefer global warming.
A rapid rate of change in the current climate change event may be a
significant problem. Ecosystems may not be able to keep up. This could
put a number of species at risk.
As to the next ice age, are you kidding? You won't live nearly long
enough to see the next ice age. But you're already living through the
beginnings of the current warming event.
> There are several reports stating that sea levels have been falling.
> http://www.iceagenow.com/Sea_levels_are_falling.htm
> http://www.iceagenow.com/Arctic_Sea_Level_Falling.htm
Heh. "iceagenow." As if we're having an ice age RIGHT NOW. :^)
In fact, we're involved in a measurable warming trend. Although one
theory does say that if the Atlantic flow reverses due to warming,
(preventing warm waters from flowing up from the south on the east
coast), it could actually plunge parts of North America in a long term
regional cold spell due to new weather patterns. If that happens, we
might think it's an ice age in the affected area, but planet-wide the
average would still be warmer.
Anyway, in any given location, sea level is variable based on many
factors, including local water temperature, inflow, outflow, wind blown
effects, salt concentration, evaporation, precipitation, and currents.
Note that the satellite which measured a slight 2.17 millimeter drop per
year in Arctic sea level from 1995 to 2003 (which adds up to a little
over half an inch for that entire 8 year period in that local area) -
that same satellite also measured a worldwide yearly sea level RISE.
There's a clear bias in the way the iceagenow web site trumpets the
local data as gospel, and then turns around and criticizes the global
data from the SAME SATELLITE. They can't have it both ways.
More:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/11/9/162012/366
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/06/sea-le vel-in-the-arctic/
BTW, I couldn't find much on the Maldives assertions except that the
author has claimed a drop in sea level there for a short period in the
70s, and claimed an increase in local evaporation at that time. While
it's quite clear the iceagenow web site is scouting for any report of
sea level drop they can get their hands on, even if just a local one,
their simultaneous dismissal of global satellite data showing a rising
overall sea level shows clear bias. It seems to me that the global data
is the telling indicator of overall sea level trends, and iceagenow is
obviously cherrypicking local data wherever they can find a drop, even
though such local drops are not unexpected because local sea level is
variable.
If we see accelerated melting of the Antarctic ice sheets and the
Greenland ice sheet, sea level will be impacted much more dramatically.
There's an article on that in the current Scientific American, check it
out. I haven't finished it yet but it's on the reading pile...
Another possible impact of the warming climate is rising sea level due
to water expansion as the average ocean temperature goes up.
> To the contrary many glaciers are growing.
> http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm
Here again, it's not good enough to cherrypick a few glaciers. Overall,
glaciers are shrinking.
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/10/31/115130/58
http://www.geo.unizh.ch/wgms/mbb/mb04/sum04.html
http://nsidc.org/sotc/glacier_balance.html
Quote: "At one time or another, researchers have measured mass balance
on more than 300 glaciers since 1946, although we only have a continuous
record from about 40 glaciers since the early 1960s. These results
indicate that in most regions of the world, glaciers are shrinking in mass."
Check out the data graphed on the web site.
BTW, climate change doesn't mean that every square inch of the earth
will have identical weather. So in some places, it may actually get
colder, some places warmer, but on average, the earth is getting warmer.
Don't be fooled by cherrypicked local data (again, by the iceagenow
site, sheesh!).
> There's global warming on Mars by the way too. This suggests a solar not
> human cause.
> http://www.iceagenow.com/Global_Warming_on_Mars.htm
Mars vs. Earth is an apples/oranges comparison. Don't get distracted by
that one. The mechanism and result on Mars is different. Iceagenow is
not telling the complete story, to put it mildly.
From: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/222712/69
Quote: "The only relevant factor the earth and Mars share is the sun, so
if the warming were real and related, that would be the logical place to
look. As it happens, the sun is being watched and measured carefully
back here on earth, and it is not the primary cause of current climate
change."
(More on the sun's role:
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/28/090/30666)."
Quote: "On Earth, we have poles melting, surface temperature rising,
tropospheric temperatures rising, permafrost melting, glaciers worldwide
melting, CO2 concentrations increasing, borehole analysis showing
warming, sea ice receding, proxy reconstructions showing warming, sea
level rising, sea surface temperatures rising, energy imbalance, ice
sheets melting, and stratospheric cooling, all of which leads us to
believe the earth is undergoing global warming driven by an enhanced
greenhouse effect. One Mars we have one spot melting, which leads us to
believe that ... one spot is melting."
From: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192
Quote: "Globally, the mean temperature of the Martian atmosphere is
particularly sensitive to the strength and duration of hemispheric dust
storms, (see for example here and here). Large scale dust storms change
the atmospheric opacity and convection; as always when comparing mean
temperatures, the altitude at which the measurement is made matters, but
to the extent it is sensible to speak of a mean temperature for Mars,
the evidence is for significant cooling from the 1970's, when Viking
made measurements, compared to current temperatures. However, this is
essentially due to large scale dust storms that were common back then,
compared to a lower level of storminess now. The mean temperature on
Mars, averaged over the Martian year can change by many degrees from
year to year, depending on how active large scale dust storms are.
In 2001, Malin et al published a short article in Science (subscription
required) discussing MGS data showing a rapid shrinkage of the South
Polar Cap. Recently, the MGS team had a press release discussing more
recent data showing the trend had continued. MGS 2001 press release MGS
2005 press release. The shrinkage of the Martian South Polar Cap is
almost certainly a regional climate change, and is not any indication of
global warming trends in the Martian atmosphere. Colaprete et al in
Nature 2005 (subscription required) showed, using the Mars GCM, that the
south polar climate is unstable due to the peculiar topography near the
pole, and the current configuration is on the instability border; we
therefore expect to see rapid changes in ice cover as the regional
climate transits between the unstable states.
Thus inferring global warming from a 3 Martian year regional trend is
unwarranted. The observed regional changes in south polar ice cover are
almost certainly due to a regional climate transition, not a global
phenomenon, and are demonstrably unrelated to external forcing. There is
a slight irony in people rushing to claim that the glacier changes on
Mars are a sure sign of global warming, while not being swayed by the
much more persuasive analogous phenomena here on Earth…"
It's not credible when a source, such as iceagenow, grasps at any
possible objection to human contributions to climate change, while
turning a blind eye to the majority of evidence gathered over decades of
research, research that actually shows a strong likelyhood of human
contributions to the current climate change event.
It's not credible to ignore the billions of dollars at stake, in the
short term for the fossil fuels industry. Money distorts the discussion.
And it's not credible to imply that most of the scientific experts too
stupid to understand the role of the sun or other basic drivers of
climate. Or that they are all in a vast conspiracy of some sort. They
can't be both utterly stupid and diabolically clever. That's where the
denial industry PR flacks contradict themselves.
While it's useful to have some amount of contrarianism in science, in
this case it hasn't risen to the level of the consensus even with the
backing of well heeled special interests.
And so, despite the special interest denial industry's best efforts,
denial, half truths, and outright lies are NOT stopping us from acting
on what we already know, for which our kids will be grateful.
Denial sites may be fun, but read ALL the science if you truly want to
better understand the situation.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
PS. Recent oil consumption snapshot (in billion barrels per DAY) - (just
one of the ways we're adding extra greenhouse gases to the atmosphere
every day, week in and week out, month after month, year after
year...and consumption is growing):
#1 United States: 20,730,000 bbl/day
#2 China: 6,534,000 bbl/day
#3 Japan: 5,578,000 bbl/day
#4 Germany: 2,650,000 bbl/day
#5 Russia: 2,500,000 bbl/day
#6 India: 2,450,000 bbl/day
#7 Canada: 2,294,000 bbl/day
#8 Korea, South: 2,149,000 bbl/day
#9 Brazil: 2,100,000 bbl/day
#10 France: 1,970,000 bbl/day
#11 Mexico: 1,970,000 bbl/day
#12 Italy: 1,881,000 bbl/day
#13 Saudi Arabia: 1,845,000 bbl/day
#14 United Kingdom: 1,827,000 bbl/day
#15 Spain: 1,573,000 bbl/day
#16 Iran: 1,510,000 bbl/day
#17 Indonesia: 1,168,000 bbl/day
#18 Taiwan: 965,000 bbl/day
#19 Netherlands: 946,700 bbl/day
#20 Thailand: 900,000 bbl/day
#21 Australia: 877,300 bbl/day
#22 Singapore: 800,000 bbl/day
#23 Turkey: 715,100 bbl/day
#24 Belgium: 641,000 bbl/day
#25 Egypt: 590,000 bbl/day
#26 Venezuela: 560,000 bbl/day
#27 Malaysia: 515,000 bbl/day
#28 South Africa: 502,000 bbl/day
#29 Argentina: 470,000 bbl/day
#30 Poland: 445,700 bbl/day
#31 Greece: 435,700 bbl/day
#32 United Arab Emirates: 400,000 bbl/day
#33 Iraq: 377,000 bbl/day
#34 Sweden: 362,400 bbl/day
#35 Philippines: 342,000 bbl/day
#36 Kuwait: 335,000 bbl/day
#37 Portugal: 332,000 bbl/day
#38 Pakistan: 324,000 bbl/day
#39 Nigeria: 290,000 bbl/day
#40 Hong Kong: 285,000 bbl/day
#41 Ukraine: 284,600 bbl/day
#42 Austria: 282,000 bbl/day
#43 Colombia: 269,000 bbl/day
#44 Switzerland: 268,100 bbl/day
#45 Israel: 249,500 bbl/day
#46 Norway: 244,300 bbl/day
#47 Chile: 238,000 bbl/day
#48 Libya: 237,000 bbl/day
#49 Puerto Rico: 234,000 bbl/day
#50 Algeria: 233,000 bbl/day
#51 Vietnam: 230,000 bbl/day
#52 Syria: 230,000 bbl/day
#53 Kazakhstan: 222,000 bbl/day
#54 Finland: 220,400 bbl/day
#55 Romania: 212,000 bbl/day
#56 Cuba: 204,000 bbl/day
#57 Czech Republic: 203,100 bbl/day
#58 Ireland: 182,400 bbl/day
#59 Denmark: 171,000 bbl/day
#60 Morocco: 170,000 bbl/day
#61 Belarus: 165,000 bbl/day
#62 Peru: 156,000 bbl/day
#63 New Zealand: 150,600 bbl/day
#64 Uzbekistan: 148,000 bbl/day
#65 Ecuador: 148,000 bbl/day
#66 Hungary: 132,000 bbl/day
#67 Bulgaria: 131,400 bbl/day
#68 Dominican Republic: 127,000 bbl/day
#69 Azerbaijan: 120,000 bbl/day
#70 Virgin Islands: 115,000 bbl/day
#71 Lebanon: 107,000 bbl/day
#72 Jordan: 107,000 bbl/day
#73 Turkmenistan: 95,000 bbl/day
#74 Croatia: 93,000 bbl/day
#75 Tunisia: 89,000 bbl/day
#76 Serbia and Montenegro: 85,000 bbl/day
#77 Yemen: 85,000 bbl/day
#78 Bangladesh: 85,000 bbl/day
#79 Sri Lanka: 82,000 bbl/day
#80 Qatar: 80,000 bbl/day
#81 Panama: 79,000 bbl/day
#82 Slovakia: 74,000 bbl/day
#83 Guatemala: 73,510 bbl/day
#84 Jamaica: 72,080 bbl/day
#85 Netherlands Antilles: 70,000 bbl/day
#86 Sudan: 66,000 bbl/day
#87 Luxembourg: 62,420 bbl/day
#88 Estonia: 60,000 bbl/day
#89 Oman: 60,000 bbl/day
#90 Lithuania: 56,000 bbl/day
#91 Kenya: 55,000 bbl/day
#92 Slovenia: 53,000 bbl/day
#93 Angola: 48,000 bbl/day
#94 Latvia: 47,000 bbl/day
#95 Bolivia: 47,000 bbl/day
#96 Costa Rica: 44,000 bbl/day
#97 Ghana: 44,000 bbl/day
#98 El Salvador: 43,000 bbl/day
#99 Armenia: 41,000 bbl/day
#100 Uruguay: 38,100 bbl/day
#101 Honduras: 37,000 bbl/day
#102 Trinidad and Tobago: 34,000 bbl/day
#103 Senegal: 31,000 bbl/day
#104 Ethiopia: 29,000 bbl/day
#105 Tajikistan: 28,000 bbl/day
#106 Bahrain: 27,000 bbl/day
#107 Paraguay: 27,000 bbl/day
#108 Bahamas, The: 27,000 bbl/day
#109 Nicaragua: 25,200 bbl/day
#110 Albania: 25,200 bbl/day
#111 Korea, North: 25,000 bbl/day
#112 Mauritania: 24,200 bbl/day
#113 Cameroon: 24,000 bbl/day
#114 Gibraltar: 24,000 bbl/day
#115 Côte d'Ivoire: 23,000 bbl/day
#116 Tanzania: 23,000 bbl/day
#117 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 23,000 bbl/day
#118 Macedonia, Republic of: 23,000 bbl/day
#119 Zimbabwe: 22,500 bbl/day
#120 Mauritius: 21,500 bbl/day
#121 Iceland: 20,560 bbl/day
#122 Burma: 20,460 bbl/day
#123 Malta: 19,000 bbl/day
#124 Papua New Guinea: 18,000 bbl/day
#125 Namibia: 18,000 bbl/day
#126 Guam: 16,000 bbl/day
#127 Brunei: 14,900 bbl/day
#128 Madagascar: 14,500 bbl/day
#129 Togo: 14,000 bbl/day
#130 Benin: 14,000 bbl/day
#131 Moldova: 14,000 bbl/day
#132 Georgia: 13,000 bbl/day
#133 Gabon: 13,000 bbl/day
#134 Zambia: 13,000 bbl/day
#135 Macau: 12,360 bbl/day
#136 Djibouti: 11,900 bbl/day
#137 Haiti: 11,600 bbl/day
#138 Nepal: 11,550 bbl/day
#139 Mozambique: 11,500 bbl/day
#140 Botswana: 11,500 bbl/day
#141 Mongolia: 11,220 bbl/day
#142 Guyana: 11,200 bbl/day
#143 Suriname: 11,200 bbl/day
#144 Barbados: 11,000 bbl/day
#145 Uganda: 10,890 bbl/day
#146 New Caledonia: 10,000 bbl/day
#147 Kyrgyzstan: 10,000 bbl/day
#148 Fiji: 10,000 bbl/day
#149 Guinea: 9,650 bbl/day
#150 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 8,200 bbl/day
#151 Burkina Faso: 8,200 bbl/day
#152 Maldives: 7,200 bbl/day
#153 Aruba: 7,000 bbl/day
#154 Sierra Leone: 6,600 bbl/day
#155 French Polynesia: 6,000 bbl/day
#156 Congo, Republic of the: 6,000 bbl/day
#157 Seychelles: 5,600 bbl/day
#158 Niger: 5,500 bbl/day
#159 Malawi: 5,500 bbl/day
#160 Rwanda: 5,400 bbl/day
#161 Eritrea: 5,300 bbl/day
#162 Somalia: 5,000 bbl/day
#163 Bermuda: 4,658 bbl/day
#164 Faroe Islands: 4,550 bbl/day
#165 Afghanistan: 4,500 bbl/day
#166 Mali: 4,300 bbl/day
#167 American Samoa: 3,900 bbl/day
#168 Greenland: 3,860 bbl/day
#169 Antigua and Barbuda: 3,800 bbl/day
#170 Cambodia: 3,750 bbl/day
#171 Liberia: 3,500 bbl/day
#172 Swaziland: 3,500 bbl/day
#173 Burundi: 3,100 bbl/day
#174 Belize: 3,000 bbl/day
#175 Laos: 3,000 bbl/day
#176 Saint Lucia: 2,800 bbl/day
#177 Cayman Islands: 2,600 bbl/day
#178 Guinea-Bissau: 2,500 bbl/day
#179 Central African Republic: 2,420 bbl/day
#180 Gambia, The: 2,000 bbl/day
#181 Grenada: 1,800 bbl/day
#182 Western Sahara: 1,800 bbl/day
#183 Chad: 1,460 bbl/day
#184 Lesotho: 1,400 bbl/day
#185 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: 1,400 bbl/day
#186 Solomon Islands: 1,280 bbl/day
#187 Equatorial Guinea: 1,220 bbl/day
#188 Bhutan: 1,160 bbl/day
#189 Cape Verde: 1,150 bbl/day
#190 Samoa: 1,000 bbl/day
#191 Nauru: 1,000 bbl/day
#192 Tonga: 900 bbl/day
#193 Dominica: 900 bbl/day
#194 Saint Kitts and Nevis: 800 bbl/day
#195 Comoros: 720 bbl/day
#196 São Tomé and Príncipe: 660 bbl/day
#197 Vanuatu: 620 bbl/day
#198 Saint Pierre and Miquelon: 500 bbl/day
#199 British Virgin Islands: 480 bbl/day
#200 Cook Islands: 420 bbl/day
#201 Montserrat: 380 bbl/day
#202 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas): 230 bbl/day
#203 Kiribati: 200 bbl/day
#204 Saint Helena: 100 bbl/day
#205 Turks and Caicos Islands: 80 bbl/day
#206 Niue: 20 bbl/day
Total: 82,234,918 bbl/day
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-con sumption
> Night,
> Rich
>
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:479edb94$1@linux...
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>> > Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
> it
>> > out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>
>> Yep, the swindle movie is old news, we even discussed it here.
>>
>> As I mentioned at the time, it ignores the main body of peer-reviewed
>> scientific evidence for the sake of sensationalism. It was done that way
>> deliberately by the producers, with no attempt at an objective look at
>> the actual scientific evidence. Fair and balanced it ain't.
>>
>> I do like the breathless announcer, fast cuts and dramatic music. It's
>> always fun to see a one-sided polemic that ironically accuses others of
>> being one-sided. I doubt anyone here is gullible enough to take it as an
>> objective authority.
>>
>> But anyway, here's more (follow the links):
>>
>> From:
>>
> http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global -warming-swindle-so-persuasive/
>> "The fans of the film would argue that it has been effective because it
>> is true. But truth is not, of itself, persuasive. When we receive new
>> information on a topic we have no idea whether it is true or not. We
>> base our conclusions on how it was presented to us, whether it concurs
>> with what we already know about that topic, how far we trust the person
>> telling us, and how well that information fits inside our world view. We
>> then seek to match our initial conclusions against the conclusions of
>> our peers. So, although we think we seek truth, the process by which we
>> reach opinions is equally capable of leading us in the wrong direction.
>> It turns out that Swindle was a collection of rather crude distortions
>> in an elegant package. We now know that the data was misrepresented, the
>> charts re-arranged, and the interviews edited in ways that were designed
>> to mislead."
>>
>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindl e
>> "Although the documentary was welcomed by global warming sceptics, it
>> was criticised heavily by many scientific organisations and individual
>> scientists (including two of the film's contributors[3][4]). The film's
>> critics argued that it had misused data, relied on out-of-date research,
>> employed misleading arguments, and misrepresented the position of the
>> Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
>>
>> From: http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/7
>> "The DVD version of ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ has been
>> available for purchase since late July 2007. The front of the
>> presentation case describes it as a “documentary”, which is defined by
>> the Oxford English Dictionary as “a film or television or radio
>> programme giving a factual account of something, using film,
>> photographs, and sound recordings of real events”. However, the DVD
>> contains at least five major misrepresentations of the scientific
>> evidence and researchers’ views on climate change. This document
>> presents details of the five misrepresentations."
>>
>> From http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.p hp
>> "What we now have is an out-and-out propaganda piece, in which there is
>> not even a gesture toward balance or explanation of why many of the
>> extended inferences drawn in the film are not widely accepted by the
>> scientific community. There are so many examples, it's hard to know
>> where to begin, so I will cite only one: a speaker asserts, as is true,
>> that carbon dioxide is only a small fraction of the atmospheric mass.
>> The viewer is left to infer that means it couldn't really matter. But
>> even a beginning meteorology student could tell you that the relative
>> masses of gases are irrelevant to their effects on radiative balance. A
>> director not intending to produce pure propaganda would have tried to
>> eliminate that piece of disinformation.” (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/
>> papersonline/channel4response)"
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour check
> it
>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>
>>> http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warm ing-Swindle
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> "EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:479e36ad$1@linux...
>>>> Woke up this morning and the temp with wind chill was -59C >:(
>>>>
>>>> Why did I move here again???
>>>>
>>>> David.
>>>
>
>
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I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Mon, 28 January 2008 11:55 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 13:27 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Bill L on Mon, 28 January 2008 12:30 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:02 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:38 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:48 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:50 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:53 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Neil on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:59 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 21:56 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:49 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 20:04 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:39 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: excelav on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:03 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 09:51 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:36 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 11:16 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 22:03 |
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I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Thu, 31 January 2008 15:26 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:35 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:10 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Fri, 01 February 2008 10:40 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:57 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 11:55 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:53 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 20:31 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 23:10 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Kim on Thu, 31 January 2008 19:31 |
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 23:08 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Wed, 30 January 2008 02:03 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:38 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:48 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Wed, 30 January 2008 01:41 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Don Nafe on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:31 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Tue, 29 January 2008 07:45 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:41 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:50 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:42 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:56 |
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Thu, 31 January 2008 02:28 |
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Re: I hate winter...
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