Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » vista where are we now ?
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96084 is a reply to message #96076] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 13:48   |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course she
calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if it's
anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of Netscape?
The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market. They're
always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS domination,
and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
Wow!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
Vista copies Mac OSX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>
>hehe
>
>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96085 is a reply to message #96084] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 14:16 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd be
calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have a
company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most powerful
consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is actually
so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price. I'd
tear his arm off taking that deal.
Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware and
development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their mindshare
in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
she
>calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if it's
>anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>
>Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of Netscape?
> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market. They're
>always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS domination,
>and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>
>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>
>Wow!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>
>One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>
>Vista copies Mac OSX
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>
>>hehe
>>
>>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96087 is a reply to message #96085] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 15:52 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some charitable
things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft certified
IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
be
>calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have a
>company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most powerful
>consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is actually
>so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price. I'd
>tear his arm off taking that deal.
>
>Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware and
>development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
mindshare
>in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>
>TCB
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>she
>>calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if it's
>>anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>
>>Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>>free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of Netscape?
>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>>and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market. They're
>>always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS domination,
>>and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>
>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>
>>Wow!
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>
>>One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>
>>Vista copies Mac OSX
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>
>>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>
>>>hehe
>>>
>>>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96088 is a reply to message #96087] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 15:17 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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Apple/MS debates aside, imho, Google will eventually "own" the internet. MS
and Apple will be irrelevant.
As may be AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc. In my opinion MS is making what may
be a last play
for anyone to challenge Google, outside of the federal government
potentially (antitrust, though doubtful).
We may eventually look back on these Apple vs. MS debates and wish we still
had two sides to debate about....just a guess.
Dedric
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bb5db9$1@linux...
>
> I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some
> charitable
> things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
> product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
> known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
> so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft
> certified
> IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
> be
>>calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have a
>>company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most
>>powerful
>>consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is
>>actually
>>so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price. I'd
>>tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>
>>Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>>to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware and
>>development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
> mindshare
>>in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>>she
>>>calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>>at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>>bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if it's
>>>anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>
>>>Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>>>free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
>>>Netscape?
>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>>recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free
>>>computers
>>>and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market.
>>>They're
>>>always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS
>>>domination,
>>>and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>
>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>
>>>Wow!
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>
>>>One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>>http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>
>>>Vista copies Mac OSX
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>
>>>
>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>
>>>>hehe
>>>>
>>>>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96089 is a reply to message #96087] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 15:19 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Well...
I do know that Apple have been VERY generous to our National Broadcaster.
They have started shooting with Panasonics Pro P2 type camera, and the
powers that be decided that Final Cut Pro would be used throughout the
network, (with some convincing by Apple, me thinks).
Before that it was PC / Avid based.
Consequently, the network had to be fitted out with Macs, HUGE order),
including using their new Media server software that no-one in Australia had
yet implemented.
As a by-product of that transition, Apple offered EXTREMELY generous deals
to the staff on any Mac product....
Don't tell me that's not buying your way in.
Martin Harrington
On 20/02/08 10:52 AM, in article 47bb5db9$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some
> charitable
> things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
> product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
> known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
> so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft
> certified
> IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>> First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
> be
>> calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have a
>> company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most powerful
>> consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is actually
>> so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price. I'd
>> tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>
>> Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>> to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware and
>> development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
> mindshare
>> in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>> she
>>> calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>> at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>> bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if it's
>>> anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>
>>> Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>>> free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
>>> Netscape?
>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>> recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>>> and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market. They're
>>> always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS
>>> domination,
>>> and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>
>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>
>>> Wow!
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>
>>> One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>
>>> Vista copies Mac OSX
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>
>>>> hehe
>>>>
>>>> I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96090 is a reply to message #96088] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 16:41 |
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I agree totally..
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Apple/MS debates aside, imho, Google will eventually "own" the internet.
MS
>and Apple will be irrelevant.
>As may be AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc. In my opinion MS is making what may
>be a last play
>for anyone to challenge Google, outside of the federal government
>potentially (antitrust, though doubtful).
>We may eventually look back on these Apple vs. MS debates and wish we still
>had two sides to debate about....just a guess.
>
>Dedric
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:47bb5db9$1@linux...
>>
>> I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some
>> charitable
>> things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
>> product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
>> known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
>> so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft
>> certified
>> IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
>> be
>>>calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have
a
>>>company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most
>>>powerful
>>>consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is
>>>actually
>>>so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price.
I'd
>>>tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>>
>>>Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>>>to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware
and
>>>development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
>> mindshare
>>>in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>>>she
>>>>calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>>>at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>>>bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if
it's
>>>>anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>>
>>>>Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>>>>free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
>>>>Netscape?
>>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>>>recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free
>>>>computers
>>>>and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market.
>>>>They're
>>>>always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS
>>>>domination,
>>>>and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>>
>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>>
>>>>Wow!
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>>
>>>>One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>>>http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>>
>>>>Vista copies Mac OSX
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>>
>>>>>hehe
>>>>>
>>>>>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96091 is a reply to message #96089] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 16:47 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm sure a Mac with FCP is a hell of a lot cheaper than a full blown Avid
system. At least somebody's got sense enough to pour piss out of a boot.
There is quite a bit of difference between a discount and giving away the
stuff for free! So what is this great discount? What can you get us Mac
towers for?
Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>Well...
>I do know that Apple have been VERY generous to our National Broadcaster.
>
>They have started shooting with Panasonics Pro P2 type camera, and the
>powers that be decided that Final Cut Pro would be used throughout the
>network, (with some convincing by Apple, me thinks).
>
>Before that it was PC / Avid based.
>
>Consequently, the network had to be fitted out with Macs, HUGE order),
>including using their new Media server software that no-one in Australia
had
>yet implemented.
>
>As a by-product of that transition, Apple offered EXTREMELY generous deals
>to the staff on any Mac product....
>
>Don't tell me that's not buying your way in.
>
>Martin Harrington
>
>
>
>
>On 20/02/08 10:52 AM, in article 47bb5db9$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
><excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some
>> charitable
>> things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
>> product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
>> known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
>> so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft
>> certified
>> IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
>> be
>>> calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have
a
>>> company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most powerful
>>> consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is actually
>>> so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price.
I'd
>>> tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>>
>>> Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>>> to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware
and
>>> development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
>> mindshare
>>> in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>>> she
>>>> calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>>> at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>>> bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if
it's
>>>> anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving
away
>>>> free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
>>>> Netscape?
>>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>>> recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>>>> and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market.
They're
>>>> always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS
>>>> domination,
>>>> and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>>
>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>>
>>>> Wow!
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>>
>>>> One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>>
>>>> Vista copies Mac OSX
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>>
>>>>> hehe
>>>>>
>>>>> I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96092 is a reply to message #96087] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 17:08 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Apple used to give close to 50% discounts to educational buyers, and would
give CS students every devel tool they had for free. It's fact James, and
they were doing it for the same reason, market share, not charity.
In addition I am most emphatically _not_ MS certified, so piss off. Nor am
I an apologist for MSFT. I have been a consistent and relentless critic of
the way they do business, on this forum and many others. However, in your
world full of tinfoil hat wearing conspiracies either one is an evil Apple
hater or a glorious Apple lover. The fact that I find the way _both_ of them
do business loathsome is obviously too much for you to get your arms around.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some charitable
>things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
>product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
>known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
>so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft certified
>IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
>be
>>calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have
a
>>company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most powerful
>>consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is actually
>>so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price. I'd
>>tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>
>>Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>>to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware
and
>>development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
>mindshare
>>in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>>she
>>>calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>>at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>>bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if it's
>>>anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>
>>>Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>>>free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
Netscape?
>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>>recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>>>and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market. They're
>>>always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS domination,
>>>and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>
>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>
>>>Wow!
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>
>>>One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>>http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>
>>>Vista copies Mac OSX
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>
>>>
>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>
>>>>hehe
>>>>
>>>>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96093 is a reply to message #96092] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 17:25 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Apple used to give close to 50% discounts to educational buyers, and would
>give CS students every devel tool they had for free. It's fact James, and
>they were doing it for the same reason, market share, not charity.
That's Bullshit, as a former educational dealer and being personal friends
with Apple educational sales reps I know their discount structures. There
were no such discounts or student freebees like that. I'd like you to show
me the free Apple software for students, this is another one I like to take
advantage of personally.
>
>In addition I am most emphatically _not_ MS certified, so piss off. Nor
am
>I an apologist for MSFT. I have been a consistent and relentless critic
of
>the way they do business, on this forum and many others. However, in your
>world full of tinfoil hat wearing conspiracies either one is an evil Apple
>hater or a glorious Apple lover. The fact that I find the way _both_ of
them
>do business loathsome is obviously too much for you to get your arms around.
>
>
>TCB
Bottom line, MS Vista sucks and so do their business practices.
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some charitable
>>things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
>>product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
>>known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
>>so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft certified
>>IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
>>be
>>>calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have
>a
>>>company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most powerful
>>>consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is actually
>>>so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price.
I'd
>>>tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>>
>>>Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>>>to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware
>and
>>>development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
>>mindshare
>>>in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>>>she
>>>>calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>>>at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>>>bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if
it's
>>>>anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>>
>>>>Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving away
>>>>free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
>Netscape?
>>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>>>recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>>>>and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market.
They're
>>>>always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS domination,
>>>>and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>>
>>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>>
>>>>Wow!
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>>
>>>>One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>>>http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>>
>>>>Vista copies Mac OSX
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>>
>>>>>hehe
>>>>>
>>>>>I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96094 is a reply to message #96093] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 18:50 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Bottom line, MS Vista sucks and so do their business practices.
Dude, I don't really want to get into this, but the fine print reads that
pretty much everybody agrees with you on that. What they don't agree on is
your claim that Apple aren't similar.
Yes, the latest OSX is much nicer than Vista. It's plausible that Apple's
business practices are not quite as bad as M$. It's very highly plausible
that this is because they don't have a monopoly with which to exercise that
power.
Most people I know agrees that M$ and Apple both act extremely suspiciously
whenever they get the chance, with M$ having the upper hand because they
have the upper hand in muscle. How you can claim Apple have never tried to
buy market share I just don't get.
Just because one company is very evil doesn't mean you are forced to become
blind to the evils of the other. Most people on this group see evils in both.
I have seen you criticise Apple, but it's very very rare. They do a long
more wrong IMHO than you give them credit for, and claiming they don't buy
market share, well...
<rant off>
Cheers,
Kim.
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96095 is a reply to message #96091] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 17:42 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't work for them, except as a freelancer, so I get zilch.
Martin H
On 20/02/08 11:47 AM, in article 47bb6aa2$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sure a Mac with FCP is a hell of a lot cheaper than a full blown Avid
> system. At least somebody's got sense enough to pour piss out of a boot.
>
> There is quite a bit of difference between a discount and giving away the
> stuff for free! So what is this great discount? What can you get us Mac
> towers for?
>
> Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> Well...
>> I do know that Apple have been VERY generous to our National Broadcaster.
>>
>> They have started shooting with Panasonics Pro P2 type camera, and the
>> powers that be decided that Final Cut Pro would be used throughout the
>> network, (with some convincing by Apple, me thinks).
>>
>> Before that it was PC / Avid based.
>>
>> Consequently, the network had to be fitted out with Macs, HUGE order),
>> including using their new Media server software that no-one in Australia
> had
>> yet implemented.
>>
>> As a by-product of that transition, Apple offered EXTREMELY generous deals
>> to the staff on any Mac product....
>>
>> Don't tell me that's not buying your way in.
>>
>> Martin Harrington
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20/02/08 10:52 AM, in article 47bb5db9$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
>> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't know every move Apple has made, I'm sure they have done some
>>> charitable
>>> things in the past, but they have never made it a practice of giving away
>>> product to steal educational market share, Microsoft has, and it's a well
>>> known fact! MS has given major universities free computers and software
>>> so MS dominates their curriculum, it's a fact! Of course a Microsoft
>>> certified
>>> IT guy would defend Microsoft's business practices.
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First, if I owned a single share of Yahoo stock (thank god I don't) I'd
>>> be
>>>> calling for the board to be strung up on by their balls. Here you have
> a
>>>> company that has been consistently loosing market share to the most
>>>> powerful
>>>> consumer force in the history of the internet, and Steve Ballmer is
>>>> actually
>>>> so stupid he's willing to pay a 62% premium on the Yahoo share price.
> I'd
>>>> tear his arm off taking that deal.
>>>>
>>>> Second, it's a little rich for a Mac zealot to beat up on MSFT for trying
>>>> to capture the educational market. Apple nearly gave away the hardware
> and
>>>> development tools for their platform forever in order to maintain their
>>> mindshare
>>>> in education. So that's OK for Apple to do but for MSFT it's evil?
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My sister in law just bought a Compaq lap top with Vista, and of course
>>>> she
>>>>> calls me because the damned thing is crashing. She told me the salesman
>>>>> at Best Buy told her that Vista was the best of Mac and Windows, I almost
>>>>> bit my tong off! I'm sure that's another MS perpetuated lie, and if
> it's
>>>>> anything like the past, I'm sure this pile will get repeated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of MS tricks and tactics, MS is back to business of giving
> away
>>>>> free software in order to crush the competition, anybody ever hear of
>>>>> Netscape?
>>>>> The article is pointed at Adobe, funny they don't mention Sun and their
>>>>> recent acquisitions such as MySQL. MS has been giving away free computers
>>>>> and software to schools for years so they can dominate the market.
> They're
>>>>> always trying to control the market, we sure don't need anymore MS
>>>>> domination,
>>>>> and I'm glad Yahoo is rejecting MS's offer.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080219/D8UT829O0.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow!
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRQzjkLAQs&feature=relat ed
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my favorites: Back to the future, or as I say, Back to the past.
>>>>> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
>>>>>
>>>>> Vista copies Mac OSX
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Tu5CPVoP8
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just started running vista and I gotta say, yeah baby , it sucks
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96096 is a reply to message #96094] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 21:10 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share? I
have seen Apple do some things strait out of the MS play book, but it's not
vary often.
Somebody vary close to me was an executive at a software company (N) and
was over their HR department. MS was hiring away (N) top software engineers
by giving them 1 to 3 million dollar starting bonuses, (bribes). They hired
way (N) intellectual technology to work on IE, and they gave IE away for
free to drive (N) out of business. How many times have you heard of Apple
stomping their competition to death? How many times have you heard of Apple
coming in to a market and giving products away for free in order to drive
their competition out of business? How many times have you heard of Apple
threatening to pull all products from a VAR for installing a competing software
product on a system? To say that they are the same is not true. MS copies
from, steals from or buys out from their competition at their price, and
if that doesn't work they crush their competition, they almost never play
ethically. When it comes to ethics and business practices these companies
are not even close.
Why does MS need Yahoo so bad? Isn't MSN and all their products good enough?
Why must they do a hostile take over of Yahoo? It will be interesting to
see how many products MS gives away for free if they get Yahoo. It's not
about competition, it's about conquering. MS must control all. It's an
ego trip for them.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080220/D8UTN3800.html
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Bottom line, MS Vista sucks and so do their business practices.
>
>Dude, I don't really want to get into this, but the fine print reads that
>pretty much everybody agrees with you on that. What they don't agree on
is
>your claim that Apple aren't similar.
>
>Yes, the latest OSX is much nicer than Vista. It's plausible that Apple's
>business practices are not quite as bad as M$. It's very highly plausible
>that this is because they don't have a monopoly with which to exercise that
>power.
>
>Most people I know agrees that M$ and Apple both act extremely suspiciously
>whenever they get the chance, with M$ having the upper hand because they
>have the upper hand in muscle. How you can claim Apple have never tried
to
>buy market share I just don't get.
>
>Just because one company is very evil doesn't mean you are forced to become
>blind to the evils of the other. Most people on this group see evils in
both.
>I have seen you criticise Apple, but it's very very rare. They do a long
>more wrong IMHO than you give them credit for, and claiming they don't buy
>market share, well...
>
><rant off>
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.
|
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96097 is a reply to message #96096] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 21:32 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dude, all I'm saying is that we have two evil companies, and one has more
money, hence power, than the other. Hence the one with more power obviously
is in a better position to do all this evil stuff. Apple have less examples
of questionable business practises, yes, but they have a smaller budget so
what do you expect?
Why does M$ need yahoo? Why did Apple need any of a number of companies they
have absorbed? Why does society think we need to grow all the time when the
size of the planet has been fairly stable since its existence? Got me stuffed.
Like I said I don't really want to get into this.
Cheers,
Kim.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
I
>have seen Apple do some things strait out of the MS play book, but it's
not
>vary often.
>
>Somebody vary close to me was an executive at a software company (N) and
>was over their HR department. MS was hiring away (N) top software engineers
>by giving them 1 to 3 million dollar starting bonuses, (bribes). They hired
>way (N) intellectual technology to work on IE, and they gave IE away for
>free to drive (N) out of business. How many times have you heard of Apple
>stomping their competition to death? How many times have you heard of Apple
>coming in to a market and giving products away for free in order to drive
>their competition out of business? How many times have you heard of Apple
>threatening to pull all products from a VAR for installing a competing software
>product on a system? To say that they are the same is not true. MS copies
>from, steals from or buys out from their competition at their price, and
>if that doesn't work they crush their competition, they almost never play
>ethically. When it comes to ethics and business practices these companies
>are not even close.
>
>Why does MS need Yahoo so bad? Isn't MSN and all their products good enough?
> Why must they do a hostile take over of Yahoo? It will be interesting
to
>see how many products MS gives away for free if they get Yahoo. It's not
>about competition, it's about conquering. MS must control all. It's an
>ego trip for them.
>
>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080220/D8UTN3800.html
>
>
>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Bottom line, MS Vista sucks and so do their business practices.
>>
>>Dude, I don't really want to get into this, but the fine print reads that
>>pretty much everybody agrees with you on that. What they don't agree on
>is
>>your claim that Apple aren't similar.
>>
>>Yes, the latest OSX is much nicer than Vista. It's plausible that Apple's
>>business practices are not quite as bad as M$. It's very highly plausible
>>that this is because they don't have a monopoly with which to exercise
that
>>power.
>>
>>Most people I know agrees that M$ and Apple both act extremely suspiciously
>>whenever they get the chance, with M$ having the upper hand because they
>>have the upper hand in muscle. How you can claim Apple have never tried
>to
>>buy market share I just don't get.
>>
>>Just because one company is very evil doesn't mean you are forced to become
>>blind to the evils of the other. Most people on this group see evils in
>both.
>>I have seen you criticise Apple, but it's very very rare. They do a long
>>more wrong IMHO than you give them credit for, and claiming they don't
buy
>>market share, well...
>>
>><rant off>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Kim.
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96098 is a reply to message #96096] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 20:27 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 2/19/08 10:10 PM, in article 47bba823$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
<excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Somebody vary close to me was an executive at a software company (N) and
> was over their HR department. MS was hiring away (N) top software engineers
> by giving them 1 to 3 million dollar starting bonuses, (bribes). They hired
> way (N) intellectual technology to work on IE, and they gave IE away for
> free to drive (N) out of business. How many times have you heard of Apple
> stomping their competition to death?
There's nothing unusual about that in either the tech industry or higher end
corporate jobs. Yes, MS pays well, because they are making a lot of money -
but Google pays well also, as do oil companies. There's nothing different
about MS giving hiring bonuses to high end engineers than Intel, Cisco,
Yamaha, Avid, a biotech firm or anyone else doing it. I was in engineering
for several years, and was offered significant stock options when
interviewing with fast growing, up and coming networking companies - that
was standard in that market - signing bonuses are as well - heck, it happens
every week in the NFL, NBA, MSL, music industry, etc. In the corporate
world it is routine for highly qualified people to be contacted by head
hunters offering bonuses, stock options, higher salary, better advancement
with another company. There's nothing unethical about it unless the
employee just does it to use as a bargaining chip for more pay at their
current job.
The point is - if you are worth that much to someone else, then they must
really want you, and you had better deliver.
> Why does MS need Yahoo so bad?
Because Google is going to stomp them, Yahoo, Apple, AT&T, Sprint and a few
others if they don't.
My .02.
Dedric
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96100 is a reply to message #96097] |
Tue, 19 February 2008 23:31 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Dude, all I'm saying is that we have two evil companies, and one has more
>money, hence power, than the other. Hence the one with more power obviously
>is in a better position to do all this evil stuff. Apple have less examples
>of questionable business practises, yes, but they have a smaller budget
so
>what do you expect?
Evil may not expand in proportion to the money injected into the equation,
there is also the corporate culture involved. Apple is expected to support
the product better than others and people pay more, in part, based on
this expectation. Now, they have dropped the ball more than once, but
I have also seen them be very attentive and supportive, giving direct
phone numbers to contact the techs about the problem and responding
quickly and competently. I have never once seen Dell or MS do so.
(the only PC folks I have experience with)
Honda and Toyota are making much more money than GM is, but
don't try to tell me the quality of the product is the same, and that
arises directly from the corporate culture.
Companies are not all the same; only limited by money from doing
evil.
That's pretty cynical. All too often true, mind you, but not always.
best
DC
ps having said all that... DAMN I hate online platform arguments!
I mean who really cares?
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96102 is a reply to message #96099] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 00:30 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Aaron I'd love to here your version of the two events. It's obvious that
Jobs was a driven men with a vision of where he wanted his company to go,
and it's obvious that John Sculley didn't agree with him. Jobs was anal
and autocratic back in the early 80s, that actually was a management style
back in those days, and obviously not a vary good one. I'm sure some people
back in those days would say he was driven to insanity, I'm sure he would
say his ideas were Insanely Great.
Jobs and Sculley had to different visions of Apple. Jobs try to regain control
of his company Apple in a board room take over, Jobs got the short end of
the stick and quit Apple.
Who had better vision and was a better CEO for Apple, Jobs or Sculley? You
can't argue with success.
So how is Apple as a company unethical?
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Come now ... if we're talking ethical standards riddle me 2 things, early
>history:
>
>How did the Apple Lisa get it's name?
>Who fired Steve Jobs, and why was he pushed out of the Apple Lisa project?
>
>The funny thing about humanity and ethics is they usually leave the room
to
>make more space for money and greed when the word 'corporate' gets involved.
>
>Now, I'm not sayin Gates is a saint (or Ballmer), hardly that, but it's
>rather obvious that Apple doesn't mind strong arming folks either. Let's
>take iTunes. Apple and Apple Records had an agreement. One conveniently
>forgotten by Jobs that he later got to pay for. Jobs will tell you he saved
>the record business. I bet the fat cats on boards at labels have a different
>song. (On the other end, the Zune is a failure IMO) My perspective is
>different than both those parties. Everybody has their truth.
>But to say Apple or MS either one are ethical is a tall order, and it's
>strictly a matter of power to push the smaller ones around. MS just has
more
>power.
>
>Just a little levity.
>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96103 is a reply to message #96097] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 00:40 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dude mon! Apple does some things that I do not care for, however I don't
see Apple as an evil company. Please enlighten me as to why you see Apple
as an evil company.
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Dude, all I'm saying is that we have two evil companies, and one has more
>money, hence power, than the other. Hence the one with more power obviously
>is in a better position to do all this evil stuff. Apple have less examples
>of questionable business practises, yes, but they have a smaller budget
so
>what do you expect?
>
>Why does M$ need yahoo? Why did Apple need any of a number of companies
they
>have absorbed? Why does society think we need to grow all the time when
the
>size of the planet has been fairly stable since its existence? Got me stuffed.
>
>Like I said I don't really want to get into this.
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Ok, can you give me a legitimate example of Apple buying market share?
>I
>>have seen Apple do some things strait out of the MS play book, but it's
>not
>>vary often.
>>
>>Somebody vary close to me was an executive at a software company (N) and
>>was over their HR department. MS was hiring away (N) top software engineers
>>by giving them 1 to 3 million dollar starting bonuses, (bribes). They
hired
>>way (N) intellectual technology to work on IE, and they gave IE away for
>>free to drive (N) out of business. How many times have you heard of Apple
>>stomping their competition to death? How many times have you heard of
Apple
>>coming in to a market and giving products away for free in order to drive
>>their competition out of business? How many times have you heard of Apple
>>threatening to pull all products from a VAR for installing a competing
software
>>product on a system? To say that they are the same is not true. MS copies
>>from, steals from or buys out from their competition at their price, and
>>if that doesn't work they crush their competition, they almost never play
>>ethically. When it comes to ethics and business practices these companies
>>are not even close.
>>
>>Why does MS need Yahoo so bad? Isn't MSN and all their products good enough?
>> Why must they do a hostile take over of Yahoo? It will be interesting
>to
>>see how many products MS gives away for free if they get Yahoo. It's not
>>about competition, it's about conquering. MS must control all. It's an
>>ego trip for them.
>>
>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080220/D8UTN3800.html
>>
>>
>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bottom line, MS Vista sucks and so do their business practices.
>>>
>>>Dude, I don't really want to get into this, but the fine print reads that
>>>pretty much everybody agrees with you on that. What they don't agree on
>>is
>>>your claim that Apple aren't similar.
>>>
>>>Yes, the latest OSX is much nicer than Vista. It's plausible that Apple's
>>>business practices are not quite as bad as M$. It's very highly plausible
>>>that this is because they don't have a monopoly with which to exercise
>that
>>>power.
>>>
>>>Most people I know agrees that M$ and Apple both act extremely suspiciously
>>>whenever they get the chance, with M$ having the upper hand because they
>>>have the upper hand in muscle. How you can claim Apple have never tried
>>to
>>>buy market share I just don't get.
>>>
>>>Just because one company is very evil doesn't mean you are forced to become
>>>blind to the evils of the other. Most people on this group see evils in
>>both.
>>>I have seen you criticise Apple, but it's very very rare. They do a long
>>>more wrong IMHO than you give them credit for, and claiming they don't
>buy
>>>market share, well...
>>>
>>><rant off>
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Kim.
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96105 is a reply to message #96099] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 01:32 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Apple Computer was sued by Apple Records in what I would call a greedy and
frivolous law suit. It's a big stretch to say that people got the two companies
confused leading to a loss in sales. It's ridiculous to say that Apple records
has an exclusive right to the common name Apple. That would be like a zoo
saying they have an exclusive right to the name impala.
Apple Paid Apple records 20 million to settle out. Apple did agree not to
enter the record company business, so Apple records sued Apple computer again
when Apple started iTunes. Is Best Buy or Circuit City in the the record
company business? Well neither was Apple Computer. Apple had a right to
resell music or recordings just like best buy or mp3.com, there was nothing
unethical about it. Apple records filed another frivolous law suit against
Apple computer. I do not believe the results of that suit were disclosed,
however it sounds like Apple Computer did Ok.
By the way, wasn't this about Vista? Vista still sucks; )
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Come now ... if we're talking ethical standards riddle me 2 things, early
>history:
>
>How did the Apple Lisa get it's name?
>Who fired Steve Jobs, and why was he pushed out of the Apple Lisa project?
>
>The funny thing about humanity and ethics is they usually leave the room
to
>make more space for money and greed when the word 'corporate' gets involved.
>
>Now, I'm not sayin Gates is a saint (or Ballmer), hardly that, but it's
>rather obvious that Apple doesn't mind strong arming folks either. Let's
>take iTunes. Apple and Apple Records had an agreement. One conveniently
>forgotten by Jobs that he later got to pay for. Jobs will tell you he saved
>the record business. I bet the fat cats on boards at labels have a different
>song. (On the other end, the Zune is a failure IMO) My perspective is
>different than both those parties. Everybody has their truth.
>But to say Apple or MS either one are ethical is a tall order, and it's
>strictly a matter of power to push the smaller ones around. MS just has
more
>power.
>
>Just a little levity.
>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96107 is a reply to message #96101] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 00:55 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
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Senior Member |
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It seems noone here seems to remember what's happeing when Mac nearly
was going to the graveyard, was it in the early '90ties? Micro$$
would get monopoly problems with the gouvernment if Mac lost that
fight, so Micro$$$ was spitting millions of $ into the Macfirm, just
to be sure it would survive. I don't know yet, if Micro$$$ still is
one of the MAC owners.
Erling
On 20 Feb 2008 17:53:31 +1000, "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>Companies are not all the same; only limited by money from doing
>>evil.
>
>True, to an extent. Apple are certainly not beyond both ends, and to an extent
>it always depends on who dealt with the area which involves you.
>
>>ps having said all that... DAMN I hate online platform arguments!
>>I mean who really cares?
>
>Well that was more or less my point. I mean we seem to have reached a point
>in many of these arguments just perpetuate. I just wanted to point out that
>no company is beyond doing good or bad.
>
>I tend to think we should put our efforts here into the specifics of the
>user experience in the O.S. moreso than the underlying politics, which belongs
>on General one would think.
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96109 is a reply to message #96099] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 01:50 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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ask atari about the ethics of some employees they once had.
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:19:21 -0600, "Aaron Allen"
<know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Come now ... if we're talking ethical standards riddle me 2 things, early
>history:
>
>How did the Apple Lisa get it's name?
>Who fired Steve Jobs, and why was he pushed out of the Apple Lisa project?
>
>The funny thing about humanity and ethics is they usually leave the room to
>make more space for money and greed when the word 'corporate' gets involved.
>
>Now, I'm not sayin Gates is a saint (or Ballmer), hardly that, but it's
>rather obvious that Apple doesn't mind strong arming folks either. Let's
>take iTunes. Apple and Apple Records had an agreement. One conveniently
>forgotten by Jobs that he later got to pay for. Jobs will tell you he saved
>the record business. I bet the fat cats on boards at labels have a different
>song. (On the other end, the Zune is a failure IMO) My perspective is
>different than both those parties. Everybody has their truth.
>But to say Apple or MS either one are ethical is a tall order, and it's
>strictly a matter of power to push the smaller ones around. MS just has more
>power.
>
>Just a little levity.
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96111 is a reply to message #96102] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 07:52 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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I think there are a few million AAPL shareholders who would be moderately
surprised to find out that the company belongs to Steve Jobs.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Aaron I'd love to here your version of the two events. It's obvious that
>Jobs was a driven men with a vision of where he wanted his company to go,
>and it's obvious that John Sculley didn't agree with him. Jobs was anal
>and autocratic back in the early 80s, that actually was a management style
>back in those days, and obviously not a vary good one. I'm sure some people
>back in those days would say he was driven to insanity, I'm sure he would
>say his ideas were Insanely Great.
>
>Jobs and Sculley had to different visions of Apple. Jobs try to regain
control
>of his company Apple in a board room take over, Jobs got the short end of
>the stick and quit Apple.
>
>Who had better vision and was a better CEO for Apple, Jobs or Sculley?
You
>can't argue with success.
>
>So how is Apple as a company unethical?
>
>
>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>Come now ... if we're talking ethical standards riddle me 2 things, early
>
>>history:
>>
>>How did the Apple Lisa get it's name?
>>Who fired Steve Jobs, and why was he pushed out of the Apple Lisa project?
>>
>>The funny thing about humanity and ethics is they usually leave the room
>to
>>make more space for money and greed when the word 'corporate' gets involved.
>>
>>Now, I'm not sayin Gates is a saint (or Ballmer), hardly that, but it's
>
>>rather obvious that Apple doesn't mind strong arming folks either. Let's
>
>>take iTunes. Apple and Apple Records had an agreement. One conveniently
>
>>forgotten by Jobs that he later got to pay for. Jobs will tell you he saved
>
>>the record business. I bet the fat cats on boards at labels have a different
>
>>song. (On the other end, the Zune is a failure IMO) My perspective is
>>different than both those parties. Everybody has their truth.
>>But to say Apple or MS either one are ethical is a tall order, and it's
>
>>strictly a matter of power to push the smaller ones around. MS just has
>more
>>power.
>>
>>Just a little levity.
>>
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96117 is a reply to message #96107] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 11:43 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In 1997 Apple was worth 11 Billion, most of it was liquid, but their stock
price was in the dumper. There sales were cannibalized by the Mac clones.
Microsoft was in hot water with their anti trust issues. Because Microsoft
Office is the worlds de-facto standard Apple needed Office to be available
on the Mac. It was renewal time for development. Apple needed MS and MS
needed Apple, so they made a deal. MS would continue to develop MS Office
for the Mac, and they would invest 150 million in Apple by buying Apple common
stock and holding it for a few years. The ploy worked, Wall st. said, if
Bill Gates thinks Apple is a good company to in vest in to than so should
everybody. Apples stock price went up. Remember, Apple was worth 11 Billion,
they needed the perception not the money. I think MS made out the best
because MS got a 5 year cross licensing agreement which took them in to Mac
OSX, MS got the code! That's why XP had a new look and Vista with it's Mac
OSX look and aqua icons, etc., and there is no law suit. MS also got Apple
to make IE the default browser, pushing Netscape out of the way.
I love the boos! Mac users just love MS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY
Here's what Jobs had to say about MS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw&feature=relat ed
More Jobs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA&NR=1
erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>It seems noone here seems to remember what's happeing when Mac nearly
>was going to the graveyard, was it in the early '90ties? Micro$$
>would get monopoly problems with the gouvernment if Mac lost that
>fight, so Micro$$$ was spitting millions of $ into the Macfirm, just
>to be sure it would survive. I don't know yet, if Micro$$$ still is
>one of the MAC owners.
>
>Erling
>
>On 20 Feb 2008 17:53:31 +1000, "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>Companies are not all the same; only limited by money from doing
>>>evil.
>>
>>True, to an extent. Apple are certainly not beyond both ends, and to an
extent
>>it always depends on who dealt with the area which involves you.
>>
>>>ps having said all that... DAMN I hate online platform arguments!
>>>I mean who really cares?
>>
>>Well that was more or less my point. I mean we seem to have reached a point
>>in many of these arguments just perpetuate. I just wanted to point out
that
>>no company is beyond doing good or bad.
>>
>>I tend to think we should put our efforts here into the specifics of the
>>user experience in the O.S. moreso than the underlying politics, which
belongs
>>on General one would think.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Kim.
|
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96118 is a reply to message #96117] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 10:48 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bc74e5$1@linux...
>
> Here's what Jobs had to say about MS.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw&feature=relat ed
That's one of the funniest and most juvenile comments I've every heard from
a CEO.
Ah, the Jobs/Gates family feud - will it ever end? Well eventually,
morbidly speaking...
or when Google takes them both over....
>
> More Jobs
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA&NR=1
>
>
> erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>It seems noone here seems to remember what's happeing when Mac nearly
>>was going to the graveyard, was it in the early '90ties? Micro$$
>>would get monopoly problems with the gouvernment if Mac lost that
>>fight, so Micro$$$ was spitting millions of $ into the Macfirm, just
>>to be sure it would survive. I don't know yet, if Micro$$$ still is
>>one of the MAC owners.
>>
>>Erling
>>
>>On 20 Feb 2008 17:53:31 +1000, "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>Companies are not all the same; only limited by money from doing
>>>>evil.
>>>
>>>True, to an extent. Apple are certainly not beyond both ends, and to an
> extent
>>>it always depends on who dealt with the area which involves you.
>>>
>>>>ps having said all that... DAMN I hate online platform arguments!
>>>>I mean who really cares?
>>>
>>>Well that was more or less my point. I mean we seem to have reached a
>>>point
>>>in many of these arguments just perpetuate. I just wanted to point out
> that
>>>no company is beyond doing good or bad.
>>>
>>>I tend to think we should put our efforts here into the specifics of the
>>>user experience in the O.S. moreso than the underlying politics, which
> belongs
>>>on General one would think.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Kim.
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96119 is a reply to message #96118] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 12:30 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think Google is a little too smart for either of those purchases.
TCB
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:47bc74e5$1@linux...
>>
>> Here's what Jobs had to say about MS.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw&feature=relat ed
>
>That's one of the funniest and most juvenile comments I've every heard from
>a CEO.
>Ah, the Jobs/Gates family feud - will it ever end? Well eventually,
>morbidly speaking...
>or when Google takes them both over....
>
>>
>> More Jobs
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA&NR=1
>>
>>
>> erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>>It seems noone here seems to remember what's happeing when Mac nearly
>>>was going to the graveyard, was it in the early '90ties? Micro$$
>>>would get monopoly problems with the gouvernment if Mac lost that
>>>fight, so Micro$$$ was spitting millions of $ into the Macfirm, just
>>>to be sure it would survive. I don't know yet, if Micro$$$ still is
>>>one of the MAC owners.
>>>
>>>Erling
>>>
>>>On 20 Feb 2008 17:53:31 +1000, "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>Companies are not all the same; only limited by money from doing
>>>>>evil.
>>>>
>>>>True, to an extent. Apple are certainly not beyond both ends, and to
an
>> extent
>>>>it always depends on who dealt with the area which involves you.
>>>>
>>>>>ps having said all that... DAMN I hate online platform arguments!
>>>>>I mean who really cares?
>>>>
>>>>Well that was more or less my point. I mean we seem to have reached a
>>>>point
>>>>in many of these arguments just perpetuate. I just wanted to point out
>> that
>>>>no company is beyond doing good or bad.
>>>>
>>>>I tend to think we should put our efforts here into the specifics of
the
>>>>user experience in the O.S. moreso than the underlying politics, which
>> belongs
>>>>on General one would think.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Kim.
>>
>
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| Re: vista where are we now ? [message #96120 is a reply to message #96116] |
Wed, 20 February 2008 12:42 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That line from gates is a fictional line from the movie "Pirates of Silicon
Valley". the truth is Apple licensed the rights from Xerox for one million
dollars worth of Apple common stock, which Xerox sold about a year later
for around 16 million. It's too bad the Xerox executives had poor vision,
had they held that stock it would be worth a lot more today. Xerox under
utilized that technology. The Xerox executives under estimated the value
of the technology. Apple developed the raw technology in to a very useable
GUI with color. When the Xerox executives saw what Apple did with the technology,
they wanted to sue Apple, but it was too late.
What did Microsoft pay for the technology? Xerox created the basic technology,
Apple licensed the technology and developed it quite a bit further, Microsoft
stole it!
It's a well known fact that Apple had a development license deal with MS
to develop a spread sheet for the Macintosh OS. Apple provided MS with the
Mac OS code, MS saw what Apple was doing and how they were achieving it,
MS copied what Apple was doing. Gates did not beat Apple to market, that's
fiction, The Macintosh was released on Jan 24th 1984, Windows was not released
until Nov. 20th 1985 almost two years later. MS copied and ripped off Apple.
A judge thought competition was good for the people.
Here is more on the subject:
this article
this to say
here
here
click here
http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=gui
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>This is even more interesting, and seems more historical (coming from an
>earlier developer
>than Horn), also without so much of the Mac slant of the other link:
>
>http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=gui
>
>Also note the last couple of paragraphs on OS's - I completely agree with
>him there (really a side note to this debate, but interesting).
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:47bc6a7a$1@linux...
>>
>> http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>Yes Rick or IBM? PARC anyone?
>>>
>>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1ttnr3lrlrb1ess4jdek459qu724gpa07b@4ax.com...
>>>> ask atari about the ethics of some employees they once had.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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