Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Vista knows best
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77481 is a reply to message #77474] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 16:05   |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
me.
But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all along,
which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided on
a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that much
of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast,
and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a MSoft
world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to some
people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the case.
MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war, until
Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple essentially
owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept right
on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in 1995
and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
TCB
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77483 is a reply to message #77479] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 16:20 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Careful what you wish for James. There are backdoors and security flaws in
BSD, which means they are in OS X. There's a certain geek code of ethics
that is usually respected that you don't beat the daylights out of quality,
security conscious operating systems like BSD and linux. You notify the maintainers
and give them a chance to fix it. But that quaint code or ethics is not shared
by the (increasingly powerful and lucrative) for profit crackers. They've
gotten good enough that they have new exploits for XP ready for release on
'Patch Tuesday' so they have the longest amount of time to use the code to
compromise hosts before machines can be patched. If OS X got a 15-20% market
share it's a much more attractive target for the really bad guys, particularly
because it's BSD based and thus highly multi-user and highly crash resistant.
And, take offense if you want I don't care, it's being used by a community
that has many members who are actually proud of being computer unsophisticated.
'I don't have to do anything to my Mac, it just works.' Well, now it 'just
works' as a DOS bot and your hosts.conf file has been changed and won't allow
security patches to be downloaded and it's owned by a hidden user account
with a randomly generated name and password that was sent over IRC to a compromised
web server in Bulgaria.
As I said, be careful what you wish for. Being a small, harder to find fish
can be a real advantage in some situations.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>
>
>Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>
>I really like their plans for E-commerce, now all internet businesses will
>have to register with Microsoft, and pay them to become certified as a legitimate
>business. The new version of IE phones home when you go on an E-commerce
>web site before it will literally give you a green light on the IE web browser.
> Talk about keeping track of everything people do. The worst part is the
>brain washed Microsoft loving masses will believe that it will only be safe
>to do business with MS certified businesses. So they will hold the hole
>world of E-commerce hostage. The small Business that can't afford to pay
>this ransom will just have to move over for big business.
>
>Microsoft has made billions on making their software difficult on the average
>user to fix and maintain. The average guy needs an expert to fix and maintain
>their PCs. Microsoft makes a lot of their money on Microsoft certification.
> I don't think it's going to be any easier with Vista. I'd think twice
about
>Vista.
>
>If you think Microsoft software is a safe bet, think again!
>
>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20061226/D8M8LL4O6.html
>
>I'll just say it now. There is going to be a big campaign in 2007 to try
>to convince people that Microsoft's main competitor in the OS market has
>a flawed and unsecured OS. It's going to be like a high school popularity
>contest, The competitor will be raked over the coals and lied about and
people
>will end up believing it. All you will be hearing in the news and so on,
>is how Vista is so much better with their new improved security. Stayed
>tuned, this has already leaked out.
>
>
>James
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77489 is a reply to message #77483] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 17:38 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Careful what you wish for James. There are backdoors and security flaws
in
>BSD, which means they are in OS X. There's a certain geek code of ethics
>that is usually respected that you don't beat the daylights out of quality,
>security conscious operating systems like BSD and linux. You notify the
maintainers
>and give them a chance to fix it. But that quaint code or ethics is not
shared
>by the (increasingly powerful and lucrative) for profit crackers. They've
>gotten good enough that they have new exploits for XP ready for release
on
>'Patch Tuesday' so they have the longest amount of time to use the code
to
>compromise hosts before machines can be patched. If OS X got a 15-20% market
>share it's a much more attractive target for the really bad guys, particularly
>because it's BSD based and thus highly multi-user and highly crash resistant.
>And, take offense if you want I don't care, it's being used by a community
>that has many members who are actually proud of being computer unsophisticated.
>'I don't have to do anything to my Mac, it just works.' Well, now it 'just
>works' as a DOS bot and your hosts.conf file has been changed and won't
allow
>security patches to be downloaded and it's owned by a hidden user account
>with a randomly generated name and password that was sent over IRC to a
compromised
>web server in Bulgaria.
>
>As I said, be careful what you wish for. Being a small, harder to find fish
>can be a real advantage in some situations.
>
>TCB
>
Hey Thad! I can dig that. Nothing is perfect, no matter what you do, any
house can be broken in to. I hear they are going to go way out of their
way to exploit Mac OS in 2007. I hear through MS's long tentacles, there
going to go after Their main competitor, Apple. MS doesn't just think that
Apple is just some little flee on their back anymore. They know that Mac
OSX is a threat to Windows market share in the home market. Microsoft is
gunning for Apple in 2007, they kicked it off with the Zune, but they are
nowhere near done yet. Stay tuned.
James
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>
>>
>>Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>>
>>I really like their plans for E-commerce, now all internet businesses will
>>have to register with Microsoft, and pay them to become certified as a
legitimate
>>business. The new version of IE phones home when you go on an E-commerce
>>web site before it will literally give you a green light on the IE web
browser.
>> Talk about keeping track of everything people do. The worst part is the
>>brain washed Microsoft loving masses will believe that it will only be
safe
>>to do business with MS certified businesses. So they will hold the hole
>>world of E-commerce hostage. The small Business that can't afford to pay
>>this ransom will just have to move over for big business.
>>
>>Microsoft has made billions on making their software difficult on the average
>>user to fix and maintain. The average guy needs an expert to fix and maintain
>>their PCs. Microsoft makes a lot of their money on Microsoft certification.
>> I don't think it's going to be any easier with Vista. I'd think twice
>about
>>Vista.
>>
>>If you think Microsoft software is a safe bet, think again!
>>
>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20061226/D8M8LL4O6.html
>>
>>I'll just say it now. There is going to be a big campaign in 2007 to try
>>to convince people that Microsoft's main competitor in the OS market has
>>a flawed and unsecured OS. It's going to be like a high school popularity
>>contest, The competitor will be raked over the coals and lied about and
>people
>>will end up believing it. All you will be hearing in the news and so on,
>>is how Vista is so much better with their new improved security. Stayed
>>tuned, this has already leaked out.
>>
>>
>>James
>
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77490 is a reply to message #77489] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 17:10 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Here's an OSX rant that was posted by someone who replied to a thread I
started elsewhere about this. Unlike me, he may be smart about this stuff:
<OSX drivers would make OSX users happy for sure, but if you think that
moving to OSX will prevent this in the long run you're kidding yourself.
In regards to the 'antipiracy' measures coming with Vista (as per the
article above), you need to consider that it's more than just
Microsoft/Vista behind this.
Apple was the first company in the 'technology' sector to cave on the
protected drm front with iTunes. Certainly they never would have gotten the
media companies to go along without iTunes drm, and theirs isn't as
restrictive as some, but it's a fact. Fact2 is that Apple is actually AHEAD
of Microsoft when it comes to using drm built into the hardware to 'secure
the OS'. The MacIntel boxes use a TPM module to 'secure' OSX86, and you can
be sure they want to tie iTunes into this in the long run. They've been
bashing Longhorn/Vista since early 2000 for its built in DRM, and meanwhile
they've been the first adopters 'in the field' so to speak (since Vista has
only now started shipping). Once compliant hardware is out you can be sure
OSX will 'have' to support it, and when that is in place you'll have OSX
locked down just as tight as Vista (iTunes & the motherboard already have it
in place, the rest of the hardware just needs to catch up).
I mention all of this not because I think Windoze SUXOR, nor is Apple the
boogie-man either, but because I'm of the opinion that this is really the
the major media conglomerates who have been pushing for this stuff since at
least 1998 (remember the p3's 'serial number'?) and are 'behind' what is
currently unfolding now. Now that computers are becoming more of a commodity
and meant more to 'consume' than to 'produce' simply due to the numbers of
consumers who are 'online' these days, I think that the slippery slope is
sliding faster & faster.
Make no mistake, the major media companies also have it in mind to make it
harder for independant content to be made available. It's not just the
point-of-sale they're losing control over these days, but the entire
production & distribution process.
And the hardware companies are going along not because the media companies
have their best interests in mind, but because Apple also has something else
Dell & co. would love. Single sale boxes that you replace every few years,
rather than the decades old 'incremental' upgrade process most current PC
users go through. If you're not allowed to manipulate the hardware without
incurring 'antipiracy' measures, then you'll eventually wind up (in 5-10
years) with boxes that you can barely upgrade at all, again making it even
more convenient to do a complete system replacement when you want a simple
'upgrade'. This is ALREADY the solution that many inexperienced users opt
for when confronted with something as simple as a machine overloaded with
malware.
Consider how much of the gear you buy these days is easily 'repairable'. On
the professional front most gear can still be serviced, but the closer you
get to consumer commodities, the more the price for the repairs versus the
price for new shiny crap makes it attractive to simply replace an entire
piece of hardware with a new item rather than trying to find someone who is
actually willing to repair the item in question. It's understandable from
the corporate standpoint. Why support independant repair technicians who you
mainly profit from when selling 'technical manuals' and 'proprietary'
testing tools, when you can have 'authorized' repair technicians that are
actually working on your timeclock in 'authorized' repair centers. And since
we now largely have 'authorized repair centers' and 'Returned Merchandise
Authorizations' (which makes it almost easier again to just buy a new
HardDrive etc rather than pay the shipping & wait 6 week to get your
computer working properly) why not just take it even further and you can
just replace the repair tech entirely with a sales clerk who is paid a low
wage & works to generate sales on new shiny crap.>
Much of this makes enough sense to me to believe that we're all hosed now
and we might as well just slit our wrists and be done with it..
;oP
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4591c073$1@linux...
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Careful what you wish for James. There are backdoors and security flaws
> in
>>BSD, which means they are in OS X. There's a certain geek code of ethics
>>that is usually respected that you don't beat the daylights out of
>>quality,
>>security conscious operating systems like BSD and linux. You notify the
> maintainers
>>and give them a chance to fix it. But that quaint code or ethics is not
> shared
>>by the (increasingly powerful and lucrative) for profit crackers. They've
>>gotten good enough that they have new exploits for XP ready for release
> on
>>'Patch Tuesday' so they have the longest amount of time to use the code
> to
>>compromise hosts before machines can be patched. If OS X got a 15-20%
>>market
>>share it's a much more attractive target for the really bad guys,
>>particularly
>>because it's BSD based and thus highly multi-user and highly crash
>>resistant.
>>And, take offense if you want I don't care, it's being used by a community
>>that has many members who are actually proud of being computer
>>unsophisticated.
>>'I don't have to do anything to my Mac, it just works.' Well, now it 'just
>>works' as a DOS bot and your hosts.conf file has been changed and won't
> allow
>>security patches to be downloaded and it's owned by a hidden user account
>>with a randomly generated name and password that was sent over IRC to a
> compromised
>>web server in Bulgaria.
>>
>>As I said, be careful what you wish for. Being a small, harder to find
>>fish
>>can be a real advantage in some situations.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>
> Hey Thad! I can dig that. Nothing is perfect, no matter what you do, any
> house can be broken in to. I hear they are going to go way out of their
> way to exploit Mac OS in 2007. I hear through MS's long tentacles, there
> going to go after Their main competitor, Apple. MS doesn't just think
> that
> Apple is just some little flee on their back anymore. They know that Mac
> OSX is a threat to Windows market share in the home market. Microsoft is
> gunning for Apple in 2007, they kicked it off with the Zune, but they are
> nowhere near done yet. Stay tuned.
>
> James
>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>
>>>
>>>Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>>>
>>>I really like their plans for E-commerce, now all internet businesses
>>>will
>>>have to register with Microsoft, and pay them to become certified as a
> legitimate
>>>business. The new version of IE phones home when you go on an E-commerce
>>>web site before it will literally give you a green light on the IE web
> browser.
>>> Talk about keeping track of everything people do. The worst part is the
>>>brain washed Microsoft loving masses will believe that it will only be
> safe
>>>to do business with MS certified businesses. So they will hold the hole
>>>world of E-commerce hostage. The small Business that can't afford to pay
>>>this ransom will just have to move over for big business.
>>>
>>>Microsoft has made billions on making their software difficult on the
>>>average
>>>user to fix and maintain. The average guy needs an expert to fix and
>>>maintain
>>>their PCs. Microsoft makes a lot of their money on Microsoft
>>>certification.
>>> I don't think it's going to be any easier with Vista. I'd think twice
>>about
>>>Vista.
>>>
>>>If you think Microsoft software is a safe bet, think again!
>>>
>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20061226/D8M8LL4O6.html
>>>
>>>I'll just say it now. There is going to be a big campaign in 2007 to try
>>>to convince people that Microsoft's main competitor in the OS market has
>>>a flawed and unsecured OS. It's going to be like a high school
>>>popularity
>>>contest, The competitor will be raked over the coals and lied about and
>>people
>>>will end up believing it. All you will be hearing in the news and so on,
>>>is how Vista is so much better with their new improved security. Stayed
>>>tuned, this has already leaked out.
>>>
>>>
>>>James
>>
>
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77493 is a reply to message #77481] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 18:56 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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HI,
To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
Chris
TCB wrote:
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>
>>
>
>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>me.
>
>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all along,
>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided on
>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that much
>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast,
>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>
>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a MSoft
>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to some
>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the case.
>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war, until
>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple essentially
>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept right
>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in 1995
>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>
>TCB
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77495 is a reply to message #77493] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 20:40 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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You're right Chris.. Nuendo was actually coded for the SGI(unix) platform
back in 1998-99. They switched to Windows when it was thought have more market
share to semi-pros to Pros.
So, Steinberg is ready to go at a momens notice for a unix switch over.
But, if they do (Steinberg) they will have to have a very cool looking (easy)
GUI shell.. No hints of unix coding what so ever. Remember, this is Music,
not a science project..
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI,
>To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>
>Chris
>
>
>TCB wrote:
>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>me.
>>
>>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
along,
>>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided on
>>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
much
>>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast,
>>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>
>>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a MSoft
>>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
some
>>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
case.
>>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
until
>>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
essentially
>>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept right
>>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
1995
>>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77497 is a reply to message #77478] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 20:01 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
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Don't worry Deej, using a Mac hasn't made a certain mono-winged,
stereo-tongued talk radio windbag into a Democrat, so you're probably
safe to muddle on as usual.
A truly self reliant conservative, or especially libertarian, would
probably lean toward Linux. Or better yet, write their own OS free from
ancient baggage, spyware and any kind of corporate or governmental agenda.
If you get a Mac I can't wait to see what your inventive mind concocts
for it. :^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
DJ wrote:
> The more I hear about Vista, the more I am thinking about (gasp!!!!)
> switching to a Mac. Looks like they've got the 64 bit OS situation well
> covered and Vista looks to be a cluster**** looking for a place to happen.
>
> damn!!!...........democrats running congress and now this??????..........I
> never thought things would get this bad. Next thing you know, pigs are gonna
> be leaving contrails in the stratosphere.
>
> ;o(
>
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45917d15$1@linux...
>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>
>
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77500 is a reply to message #77494] |
Tue, 26 December 2006 22:17 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
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"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4591ea3d$1@linux...
>
> Frankly, all of this tends to make a dedicated/optimized audio-only
> computer
>
> more and more attractive as time goes on. Especially in MS-land there is
> a
> constant tax on performance levied by all the protection apps needed to
> keep
>
> the jawas out of the box, and if Thad is right, OSX may be next. We may
> be
> using a computer only for production, keeping it offline most of the time,
> and
> another for everything else.
I moved to this (app only, no internet on the audio/video boxes) years ago,
and it was just reinforced when I shot the Paris video.. Tank didn't even
have a CDr burner on his paris machine, and a removable drive bay. Only
Paris. Dude knew.
Of course, the flip side of that is that I personally own 10 ( I do a LOT
with PC's) computers now, but they all do what they do and they do it w/o
hassles and fights.
Gut feeling is that I will not be moving them to Vista any sooner than I'm
forced to.
FWIW, I put Vista Beta on a 3 year old Dell box at work (optiplex GX240),
and it started placing all these hardware demands to run correctly. Now, how
would you like to explain to your employer that they may need to buy 35%-40%
of their working machines over again just to run the new OS?
That thinking just sucks, and there is no planned upgrade for that tier of
machines, believe me.
> Yes, there are still many issues to deal with in the next few years, but
> they are
> also opportunities for stripped down versions of OS's and even the open
> source
> world to contribute to audio production.
I'm still sore that BeOS was killed/turned into a bastardized former version
of itself.
grrr.......
> DC
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77507 is a reply to message #77493] |
Wed, 27 December 2006 07:20 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think they should, I don't think they will. It would mean bringing over
things like ASIO and VST to a free platform and I think that would scare
people. They could keep things like that proprietary but it would be a lot
easier all around to put it under the GPL or IBM Eclipse license (and have
it loadable easily into the kernel as modules) and big companies without
an understanding of free software usually aren't comfortable with that.
Again, I agree that they should, and Ubuntu would be a great place to start,
and I think Mark Shuttleworth would be thrilled to have a high quality audio
platform running on Ubuntu. But I don't think anyone will. Hope I'm wrong.
TCB
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI,
>To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>
>Chris
>
>
>TCB wrote:
>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>me.
>>
>>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
along,
>>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided on
>>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
much
>>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast,
>>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>
>>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a MSoft
>>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
some
>>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
case.
>>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
until
>>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
essentially
>>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept right
>>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
1995
>>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77509 is a reply to message #77489] |
Wed, 27 December 2006 07:24 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I don't think MSoft thinks of Apple as a competitor, but as a boutique hardware
line. Vista is supposed to compete with Google, RIM, and to a lesser extent
Sony, Comcast, Disney, Cablevision, and others. Apple is _very_ low on the
hit list, and if they make it that far down the list the jig is up anyway.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Careful what you wish for James. There are backdoors and security flaws
>in
>>BSD, which means they are in OS X. There's a certain geek code of ethics
>>that is usually respected that you don't beat the daylights out of quality,
>>security conscious operating systems like BSD and linux. You notify the
>maintainers
>>and give them a chance to fix it. But that quaint code or ethics is not
>shared
>>by the (increasingly powerful and lucrative) for profit crackers. They've
>>gotten good enough that they have new exploits for XP ready for release
>on
>>'Patch Tuesday' so they have the longest amount of time to use the code
>to
>>compromise hosts before machines can be patched. If OS X got a 15-20% market
>>share it's a much more attractive target for the really bad guys, particularly
>>because it's BSD based and thus highly multi-user and highly crash resistant.
>>And, take offense if you want I don't care, it's being used by a community
>>that has many members who are actually proud of being computer unsophisticated.
>>'I don't have to do anything to my Mac, it just works.' Well, now it 'just
>>works' as a DOS bot and your hosts.conf file has been changed and won't
>allow
>>security patches to be downloaded and it's owned by a hidden user account
>>with a randomly generated name and password that was sent over IRC to a
>compromised
>>web server in Bulgaria.
>>
>>As I said, be careful what you wish for. Being a small, harder to find
fish
>>can be a real advantage in some situations.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>
>Hey Thad! I can dig that. Nothing is perfect, no matter what you do, any
>house can be broken in to. I hear they are going to go way out of their
>way to exploit Mac OS in 2007. I hear through MS's long tentacles, there
>going to go after Their main competitor, Apple. MS doesn't just think that
>Apple is just some little flee on their back anymore. They know that Mac
>OSX is a threat to Windows market share in the home market. Microsoft is
>gunning for Apple in 2007, they kicked it off with the Zune, but they are
>nowhere near done yet. Stay tuned.
>
>James
>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>
>>>
>>>Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>>>
>>>I really like their plans for E-commerce, now all internet businesses
will
>>>have to register with Microsoft, and pay them to become certified as a
>legitimate
>>>business. The new version of IE phones home when you go on an E-commerce
>>>web site before it will literally give you a green light on the IE web
>browser.
>>> Talk about keeping track of everything people do. The worst part is
the
>>>brain washed Microsoft loving masses will believe that it will only be
>safe
>>>to do business with MS certified businesses. So they will hold the hole
>>>world of E-commerce hostage. The small Business that can't afford to
pay
>>>this ransom will just have to move over for big business.
>>>
>>>Microsoft has made billions on making their software difficult on the
average
>>>user to fix and maintain. The average guy needs an expert to fix and
maintain
>>>their PCs. Microsoft makes a lot of their money on Microsoft certification.
>>> I don't think it's going to be any easier with Vista. I'd think twice
>>about
>>>Vista.
>>>
>>>If you think Microsoft software is a safe bet, think again!
>>>
>>>http://apnews.excite.com/article/20061226/D8M8LL4O6.html
>>>
>>>I'll just say it now. There is going to be a big campaign in 2007 to
try
>>>to convince people that Microsoft's main competitor in the OS market has
>>>a flawed and unsecured OS. It's going to be like a high school popularity
>>>contest, The competitor will be raked over the coals and lied about and
>>people
>>>will end up believing it. All you will be hearing in the news and so
on,
>>>is how Vista is so much better with their new improved security. Stayed
>>>tuned, this has already leaked out.
>>>
>>>
>>>James
>>
>
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77536 is a reply to message #77493] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 11:25 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI,
>To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>
>Chris
>
Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
all of us?
Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that he
was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of the
company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing command
lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
I don't get the disregard.
James
>
>TCB wrote:
>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>me.
>>
>>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
along,
>>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided on
>>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
much
>>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast,
>>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>
>>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a MSoft
>>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
some
>>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
case.
>>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
until
>>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
essentially
>>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept right
>>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
1995
>>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77537 is a reply to message #77536] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 12:22 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi James,
I think the dislike comes on 2 fronts:
-1 When Mr Jobs stopped the Mac Clone industry. That really pissed alot of
Mac owners(Me included) off. They Apple were getting handed their lunch by
the clone macs.
-2 The "over-hype" if you will, of the G4 prowess. As well as the G5. He
outright lied on it's performance capabilities. And, he continued to lie
when the G5 came out.
Too much hype that good people bought into. Then, to turn around and start
using the very same processor that you stated the G4 &G5 was superior to.
This pissed 'real" computer people off , and he (Jobs) really disccredited
himself in the overall computer industry.
Yes Apple is properous again, but he's left too many bloody trails of G4's
& G5 to be given a pass.
Remember all the Mac vs PC wars where good Mac owners knowinly or not knowinglly
argued totheir were blue in the face. Convinced that the Mac they just purchased
was "light years" faster than the current Intel offerings.. Bogus Adobe
Speed test, and the like..
Then to add insult to injury, the stop development for Logic Windows!!! Never
mind good people paid good money for that hal-baked- audio recoreder/editor,
midi sequencer. Thinking most of us Logic Win users would switch over.. wel,
most went straight to Cubase. The others, Sonar,and even DP..But, most went
to Cuabse.
As a PC user (Intel/AMD) these statements from Mr Jobs were "offensive" and
begs for an Appology to all PC (windows) users. ANd, and Applogy to all Mac
zealots who bought in to the CPU G4/G5 speed hype.
So, James, it's easy to see why the mention of Me Jobs stirs such venom..
Take care,
LaMont
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>HI,
>>To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>
>>Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>
>>as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>
>>niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>
>>they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>
>>to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>>base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>
>>around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>
>Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
>what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
>all of us?
>
>Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
he
>was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of
the
>company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
>Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
>Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
>to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>
>Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
>in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing command
>lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>
>The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
>Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>
>I don't get the disregard.
>
>James
>
>
>>
>>TCB wrote:
>>
>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>>me.
>>>
>>>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
>along,
>>>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
on
>>>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
>much
>>>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
Comcast,
>>>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>>
>>>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a
MSoft
>>>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
>some
>>>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
>case.
>>>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>until
>>>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>essentially
>>>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
right
>>>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
>1995
>>>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Chris Ludwig
>>ADK
>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>(859) 635-5762
>
|
|
|
|
| Steve Jobs Hatred (was Re: Vista knows best) [message #77542 is a reply to message #77537] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 13:32 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bloody trails? Maybe you're exaggerating a bit yourself... ;^)
Sure there was CPU hype (and not just from Apple), but I had a dual G4
and it was a BIG step up, speedwise, from my previous Intel box. Way
better. It was certainly fast enough for audio production, even native
audio production if I froze tracks with intensive synth or FX plugins as
needed. A bit noisy and quickly overtaken by other CPU developments, but
not a slouch.
I think that G4 box really was the fastest computer on the block, for
about a week, until it was passed up by the chip of the following week
(probably AMD). And so it goes.
My dual G5 was a big step up from the G4. And it's STILL fast enough for
audio production without freezing tracks, typically, and even HD video
production. Runs quieter, too. So the trail isn't all that bloody here.
BTW, all the comparisons to Intel chips that you resent were to older
chips. Some of the comparisons were fair, some were exaggerated, true.
But keep in mind that the Mac itself didn't go Intel until the recent
Core Duo series. Apple has never claimed the G4 or G5 is faster than
that chip line. In fact, they went to a fair bit of trouble to switch
chips so Mac users could have access to the core duo development future
instead of the slower-evolving PPC line. Next studio Mac: 8 cores!
Chips are only part of the story. Even the first release of OSX was a
breath of fresh air compared to moldy Wi98. And especially compared to
the wheezing OS9. Not being a classic Mac zealot, the reason I bought a
Mac in the first place was for OSX.
BTW, if you think you're upset about Logic not being supported on
MSWindows, what about all the Atari users... :^/
I agree about the clone situation, that seemed like a mistake to me.
But here's the benefit to you. Apple managed to survive the onslaught of
an illegally leveraged monopoly when a lot of others did not. They offer
useful products for audio recording and all kinds of media production,
many of which are industry leading. Even if you don't buy their
products, just having them in the market keeps at least some choice
available, which helps keep other products at least somewhat
competitive. So whether you buy Apple products or not, it benefits you
to have them available.
Jobs has certainly made mistakes as well as contributions. I give him
credit for some of the early Mac successes, criticisms for some of the
early Mac missteps. Credit for taking a gamble with NeXT. Big credit for
OSX, minus a few criticisms here and there. Credit for charting a
difficult course with PPC and now (surprised me!) Intel core duo. Credit
for buying Logic. Some criticism over Logic development history.
On balance, positive.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
LaMont wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> I think the dislike comes on 2 fronts:
>
> -1 When Mr Jobs stopped the Mac Clone industry. That really pissed alot of
> Mac owners(Me included) off. They Apple were getting handed their lunch by
> the clone macs.
>
> -2 The "over-hype" if you will, of the G4 prowess. As well as the G5. He
> outright lied on it's performance capabilities. And, he continued to lie
> when the G5 came out.
> Too much hype that good people bought into. Then, to turn around and start
> using the very same processor that you stated the G4 &G5 was superior to.
> This pissed 'real" computer people off , and he (Jobs) really disccredited
> himself in the overall computer industry.
>
> Yes Apple is properous again, but he's left too many bloody trails of G4's
> & G5 to be given a pass.
>
> Remember all the Mac vs PC wars where good Mac owners knowinly or not knowinglly
> argued totheir were blue in the face. Convinced that the Mac they just purchased
> was "light years" faster than the current Intel offerings.. Bogus Adobe
> Speed test, and the like..
>
> Then to add insult to injury, the stop development for Logic Windows!!! Never
> mind good people paid good money for that hal-baked- audio recoreder/editor,
> midi sequencer. Thinking most of us Logic Win users would switch over.. wel,
> most went straight to Cubase. The others, Sonar,and even DP..But, most went
> to Cuabse.
>
> As a PC user (Intel/AMD) these statements from Mr Jobs were "offensive" and
> begs for an Appology to all PC (windows) users. ANd, and Applogy to all Mac
> zealots who bought in to the CPU G4/G5 speed hype.
>
> So, James, it's easy to see why the mention of Me Jobs stirs such venom..
>
> Take care,
> LaMont
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>> HI,
>>> To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>>> Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>>> as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>>> niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>> would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>> politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>> quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>>> they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>> Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>> windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>>> to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>
>>> base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>> forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>>> around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>> Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
>> what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
>> all of us?
>>
>> Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
> he
>> was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of
> the
>> company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
>> Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
>> Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
>> to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>>
>> Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
>> in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing command
>> lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>>
>> The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
>> Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>>
>> I don't get the disregard.
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>>> TCB wrote:
>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>>> and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>>> client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>>> pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
>> along,
>>>> which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>>> That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
> on
>>>> a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
>> much
>>>> of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>>> all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
> Comcast,
>>>> and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>>> vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>
>>>> I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a
> MSoft
>>>> world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
>> some
>>>> people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>>> margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
>> case.
>>>> MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>> until
>>>> Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>> essentially
>>>> owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>>> Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>>> software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
> right
>>>> on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
>> 1995
>>>> and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> ADK
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>> (859) 635-5762
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77545 is a reply to message #77536] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 15:02 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hmmmm, I scrolled back a few pages and find the following from one James McCloskey
Esq. regarding Windows Vista
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have said myself some unkind things about El Presidente For Life Estebahn
Jobs, but in none of them have I ever called him Adolf Jobs or even Steve
Mussolini. So even before I begin I'm reminded of a phrase that includes
the words pot, kettle, and black.
That said, in addition to the things Lamont mentioned I have two problems
with Steve Jobs. First, it's his relentless emphasis on what I call 'Apple
Exceptionalism,' the belief that somehow something inside an Apple OS or
piece of hardware is mystically better than anything else. They're not, it's
just a computer and an operating system, there's nothing special about it
at all. Some people do special things with them, but some people do special
things with gardening tools, others with saxophones, and still others with
computers running Windows believe it or not. The whole [grammatically incorrect]
Think Different campaign only made that worse.
The second thing I can't stand about Steve Jobs is the whole 'visionary who
changed the world' thing. Neither he, nor Gates, nor any of the people trotted
out as visionaries were anything close to it. The real visionaries in the
world of computing are people like Marc Andreesen and Jamie Zawinski who
in essence made the web usable by normal people. Vinton Cerf is a visionary.
Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman are visionaries, no matter how much
they can't stand each other. My old friend Stephan Sprenger, who wrote an
SGI app that would do morphing DSP on audio files, but it was so complex
in 1993 that to morph a piece of audio would take 18 hours and if you didn't
like the results you'd have to change one parameter and try again the next
day. That's passion and vision and caring. The person who probably fits that
description best at Apple was/is Woz. Compared to Woz Jobs is the carny barker,
the marketing stooge, the actor. But because he gets on stage and flashes
an iPod nano he's something special. To me that diminishes the accomplishments
of the true visionaries.
But I never called him Adolf Jobs, just for the record.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>HI,
>>To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>
>>Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>
>>as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>
>>niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>
>>they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>
>>to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>>base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>
>>around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>
>Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
>what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
>all of us?
>
>Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
he
>was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of
the
>company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
>Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
>Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
>to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>
>Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
>in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing command
>lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>
>The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
>Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>
>I don't get the disregard.
>
>James
>
>
>>
>>TCB wrote:
>>
>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>>me.
>>>
>>>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
>along,
>>>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
on
>>>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
>much
>>>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
Comcast,
>>>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>>
>>>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a
MSoft
>>>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
>some
>>>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
>case.
>>>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>until
>>>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>essentially
>>>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
right
>>>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
>1995
>>>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Chris Ludwig
>>ADK
>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>(859) 635-5762
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77548 is a reply to message #77545] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 15:33 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I dunno Thad. Even when I didn't choose Macs, even when MacOS sucked, I
though "insanely great" was a much more inspiring mantra than the mere
"a computer on every desk." It seems to me Jobs pushed for quality,
sometimes, and at times when the biggest competitor was happy with good
enough. At critical moments Jobs was at the helm for major leaps at
Apple, when the biggest competition was content to milk backwards
compatibility to the stone age.
No vague handwaving can somehow make every OS identical, every computer
identical, every company identical or history vanish into sameness. In
fact, choice is good and Apple has, despite some wrong turns here and
there, done some things very right with OSX.
Granted OSX is not open source (past Darwin and a ton of apps). Granted
it will never pay your bills (doesn't need heavy duty administration
like you're used to). Granted, you can't cobble together your own OSX
hardware. So I expect your endearing and committed grumbling will
continue whenever the subject of Apple comes up.
Did Jobs change the world? Along the way, he did have a hand in some big
things. On the down side he made some poor choices and may have crossed
the line with stock options. Gates? Probably best at accelerating the
commoditization of the industry, but worse as a destroyer of competition
leading to criminal indictments and a major MAJOR, uh, wrist slapping.
The free software and academic folks? Big contributions as you say.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
TCB wrote:
> Hmmmm, I scrolled back a few pages and find the following from one James McCloskey
> Esq. regarding Windows Vista
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> I have said myself some unkind things about El Presidente For Life Estebahn
> Jobs, but in none of them have I ever called him Adolf Jobs or even Steve
> Mussolini. So even before I begin I'm reminded of a phrase that includes
> the words pot, kettle, and black.
>
> That said, in addition to the things Lamont mentioned I have two problems
> with Steve Jobs. First, it's his relentless emphasis on what I call 'Apple
> Exceptionalism,' the belief that somehow something inside an Apple OS or
> piece of hardware is mystically better than anything else. They're not, it's
> just a computer and an operating system, there's nothing special about it
> at all. Some people do special things with them, but some people do special
> things with gardening tools, others with saxophones, and still others with
> computers running Windows believe it or not. The whole [grammatically incorrect]
> Think Different campaign only made that worse.
>
> The second thing I can't stand about Steve Jobs is the whole 'visionary who
> changed the world' thing. Neither he, nor Gates, nor any of the people trotted
> out as visionaries were anything close to it. The real visionaries in the
> world of computing are people like Marc Andreesen and Jamie Zawinski who
> in essence made the web usable by normal people. Vinton Cerf is a visionary.
> Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman are visionaries, no matter how much
> they can't stand each other. My old friend Stephan Sprenger, who wrote an
> SGI app that would do morphing DSP on audio files, but it was so complex
> in 1993 that to morph a piece of audio would take 18 hours and if you didn't
> like the results you'd have to change one parameter and try again the next
> day. That's passion and vision and caring. The person who probably fits that
> description best at Apple was/is Woz. Compared to Woz Jobs is the carny barker,
> the marketing stooge, the actor. But because he gets on stage and flashes
> an iPod nano he's something special. To me that diminishes the accomplishments
> of the true visionaries.
>
> But I never called him Adolf Jobs, just for the record.
>
> TCB
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>> HI,
>>> To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>>> Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>>> as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>>> niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>> would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>> politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>> quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>>> they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>> Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>> windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>>> to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>
>>> base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>> forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>>> around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>> Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
>> what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
>> all of us?
>>
>> Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
> he
>> was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of
> the
>> company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
>> Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
>> Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
>> to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>>
>> Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
>> in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing command
>> lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>>
>> The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
>> Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>>
>> I don't get the disregard.
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>>> TCB wrote:
>>>
>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>>> and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>>> client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>>> pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
>> along,
>>>> which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>>> That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
> on
>>>> a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
>> much
>>>> of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>>> all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
> Comcast,
>>>> and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>>> vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>
>>>> I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a
> MSoft
>>>> world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
>> some
>>>> people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>>> margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
>> case.
>>>> MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>> until
>>>> Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>> essentially
>>>> owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>>> Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>>> software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
> right
>>>> on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
>> 1995
>>>> and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Ludwig
>>> ADK
>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>> (859) 635-5762
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77549 is a reply to message #77536] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 16:44 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
James McCloskey wrote:
> Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much?
Cuz he's a stinking tree hugging hippie!!!! ;)
Have you ever considered
> what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
> all of us?
yes
>
> Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that he
> was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of the
> company he started?
I did not call him a bully. I stated that if in the same position as
Bill Gates he probably wouldn't act any different to protect his
interests. But sadly we all would probably act as crazy as BG if given
all the money and power.
Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
> Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
> Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground.
It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
> to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
Agreed for sure.
>
> Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
> in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing command
> lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
Had it not been for Free BSD and UNIX you'd still be using OS9 ...yuck :)
>
> The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
> Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
And Bill Gates
>
> I don't get the disregard.
I hate and love em all I think I'm just jealous sense I have trouble
paying for my electric bill and they make more money than the electric
company does....!!! LOL
Actually James I'm quite impressed with the new Intel Macs. To the point
I might get back into selling them again. The whole boot camp part is
quite cool. We have this weird thing here where many of the high end
customers are ditching the Mac (even new ones) for PCs for their
production machines but having allot of home and project studio guys
think about going for the MAC. Obviously we would rather have them get
the Mac from us.:)
Chris
PS- I hate Vista!!!
>
> James
>
>
>> TCB wrote:
>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>> And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>> and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>> me.
>>>
>>> But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>> client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP. That's
>>> pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
> along,
>>> which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube, MySpace.
>>> That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided on
>>> a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
> much
>>> of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to funnel
>>> all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast,
>>> and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>> vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>>
>>> I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a MSoft
>>> world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
> some
>>> people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking profit
>>> margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
> case.
>>> MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
> until
>>> Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
> essentially
>>> owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>> Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_ free
>>> software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept right
>>> on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
> 1995
>>> and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>> ADK
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> (859) 635-5762
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK Pro Audio
(859) 635-5762
www.adkproaudio.com
chrisl@adkproaudio.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77557 is a reply to message #77537] |
Thu, 28 December 2006 19:26 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
We agree LaMont. You were reading my mind.
;o)
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:4594196e$1@linux...
>
> Hi James,
>
> I think the dislike comes on 2 fronts:
>
> -1 When Mr Jobs stopped the Mac Clone industry. That really pissed alot of
> Mac owners(Me included) off. They Apple were getting handed their lunch by
> the clone macs.
>
> -2 The "over-hype" if you will, of the G4 prowess. As well as the G5. He
> outright lied on it's performance capabilities. And, he continued to lie
> when the G5 came out.
> Too much hype that good people bought into. Then, to turn around and start
> using the very same processor that you stated the G4 &G5 was superior to.
> This pissed 'real" computer people off , and he (Jobs) really disccredited
> himself in the overall computer industry.
>
> Yes Apple is properous again, but he's left too many bloody trails of G4's
> & G5 to be given a pass.
>
> Remember all the Mac vs PC wars where good Mac owners knowinly or not
> knowinglly
> argued totheir were blue in the face. Convinced that the Mac they just
> purchased
> was "light years" faster than the current Intel offerings.. Bogus Adobe
> Speed test, and the like..
>
> Then to add insult to injury, the stop development for Logic Windows!!!
> Never
> mind good people paid good money for that hal-baked- audio
> recoreder/editor,
> midi sequencer. Thinking most of us Logic Win users would switch over..
> wel,
> most went straight to Cubase. The others, Sonar,and even DP..But, most
> went
> to Cuabse.
>
> As a PC user (Intel/AMD) these statements from Mr Jobs were "offensive"
> and
> begs for an Appology to all PC (windows) users. ANd, and Applogy to all
> Mac
> zealots who bought in to the CPU G4/G5 speed hype.
>
> So, James, it's easy to see why the mention of Me Jobs stirs such venom..
>
> Take care,
> LaMont
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>HI,
>>>To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>>
>>>Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>>
>>>as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>>
>>>niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>>would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>>politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>>quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>>
>>>they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>>Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>>windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>>
>>>to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>
>>>base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>>forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>>
>>>around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>
>>Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever
>>considered
>>what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has
>>benefitted
>>all of us?
>>
>>Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
> he
>>was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of
> the
>>company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
>>Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
>>Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
>>to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>>
>>Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM
>>terminals
>>in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing
>>command
>>lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>>
>>The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
>>Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>>
>>I don't get the disregard.
>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>>
>>>TCB wrote:
>>>
>>>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to
>>>>organize
>>>>and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>>>me.
>>>>
>>>>But there are two things that will work against this. First, the
>>>>corporate
>>>>client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP.
>>>>That's
>>>>pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
>>along,
>>>>which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube,
>>>>MySpace.
>>>>That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
> on
>>>>a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
>>much
>>>>of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to
>>>>funnel
>>>>all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
> Comcast,
>>>>and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and
>>>>hardware/software
>>>>vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>
>>>>
>>>>I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a
> MSoft
>>>>world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
>>some
>>>>people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking
>>>>profit
>>>>margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
>>case.
>>>>MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>>until
>>>>Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>>essentially
>>>>owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>>>Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_
>>>>free
>>>>software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
> right
>>>>on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
>>1995
>>>>and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>ADK
>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>(859) 635-5762
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77579 is a reply to message #77548] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 12:14 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Two quick points. If you believe 'insanely great' you clearly never used 7.5.3
or the first release of OS X. which as far as I can tell had to download
the entire BSD source to run a single security patch. Second, my primary
area of expertise is networking, not Windows administration, so I'll have
a job as long as computers are networked, regardless of OS. However, in the
corporate world that pretty much means Windows/Office/Outlook on the desktops,
and in our case a combination of Windows, linux, and Solaris in the server
room. If I had to manage 60 desktops that were all OS X machines it would
be AT LEAST as difficult and time consuming as managing our XP boxes. Say
what you will about MSoft, and I say plenty, but they at least give us the
tools to manage patches and application upgrades, volume licenses for software,
and mail/user/domain changes from a central location. I also have imaging
tools to move out multiple machines, XP boot CDs for search and rescue, and
so on.
With some pain and suffering I could switch to linux desktops and I think
in the long run things would be easier, save that my users would give up
Outlook only after a bitter and deadly (for me) struggle. Unix was designed
precisely for central management and such. OS X networks, though, I see people
with a lot of CDs stacked up at their workstations, not the kind of central
control I need.
Lastly. Visionary? Cerf invented TCP, Stallman Emacs, Torvalds the X86 linux
kernel, Andreesen took Mosaic and brought it to the world. What is Jobs'
visionary achievement? The handle on the Mac? I always did like that handle
. . .
TCB
TCB
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>I dunno Thad. Even when I didn't choose Macs, even when MacOS sucked, I
>though "insanely great" was a much more inspiring mantra than the mere
>"a computer on every desk." It seems to me Jobs pushed for quality,
>sometimes, and at times when the biggest competitor was happy with good
>enough. At critical moments Jobs was at the helm for major leaps at
>Apple, when the biggest competition was content to milk backwards
>compatibility to the stone age.
>
>No vague handwaving can somehow make every OS identical, every computer
>identical, every company identical or history vanish into sameness. In
>fact, choice is good and Apple has, despite some wrong turns here and
>there, done some things very right with OSX.
>
>Granted OSX is not open source (past Darwin and a ton of apps). Granted
>it will never pay your bills (doesn't need heavy duty administration
>like you're used to). Granted, you can't cobble together your own OSX
>hardware. So I expect your endearing and committed grumbling will
>continue whenever the subject of Apple comes up.
>
>Did Jobs change the world? Along the way, he did have a hand in some big
>things. On the down side he made some poor choices and may have crossed
>the line with stock options. Gates? Probably best at accelerating the
>commoditization of the industry, but worse as a destroyer of competition
>leading to criminal indictments and a major MAJOR, uh, wrist slapping.
>The free software and academic folks? Big contributions as you say.
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>TCB wrote:
>> Hmmmm, I scrolled back a few pages and find the following from one James
McCloskey
>> Esq. regarding Windows Vista
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> I have said myself some unkind things about El Presidente For Life Estebahn
>> Jobs, but in none of them have I ever called him Adolf Jobs or even Steve
>> Mussolini. So even before I begin I'm reminded of a phrase that includes
>> the words pot, kettle, and black.
>>
>> That said, in addition to the things Lamont mentioned I have two problems
>> with Steve Jobs. First, it's his relentless emphasis on what I call 'Apple
>> Exceptionalism,' the belief that somehow something inside an Apple OS
or
>> piece of hardware is mystically better than anything else. They're not,
it's
>> just a computer and an operating system, there's nothing special about
it
>> at all. Some people do special things with them, but some people do special
>> things with gardening tools, others with saxophones, and still others
with
>> computers running Windows believe it or not. The whole [grammatically
incorrect]
>> Think Different campaign only made that worse.
>>
>> The second thing I can't stand about Steve Jobs is the whole 'visionary
who
>> changed the world' thing. Neither he, nor Gates, nor any of the people
trotted
>> out as visionaries were anything close to it. The real visionaries in
the
>> world of computing are people like Marc Andreesen and Jamie Zawinski who
>> in essence made the web usable by normal people. Vinton Cerf is a visionary.
>> Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman are visionaries, no matter how much
>> they can't stand each other. My old friend Stephan Sprenger, who wrote
an
>> SGI app that would do morphing DSP on audio files, but it was so complex
>> in 1993 that to morph a piece of audio would take 18 hours and if you
didn't
>> like the results you'd have to change one parameter and try again the
next
>> day. That's passion and vision and caring. The person who probably fits
that
>> description best at Apple was/is Woz. Compared to Woz Jobs is the carny
barker,
>> the marketing stooge, the actor. But because he gets on stage and flashes
>> an iPod nano he's something special. To me that diminishes the accomplishments
>> of the true visionaries.
>>
>> But I never called him Adolf Jobs, just for the record.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>> HI,
>>>> To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>>>> Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as
big
>>>> as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher
end
>>>> niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>>> would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>>> politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>>> quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard
if
>>>> they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>>> Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>>> windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>>>> to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>>
>>>> base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>>> forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS
was
>>>> around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>> Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
>>> what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
>>> all of us?
>>>
>>> Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
>> he
>>> was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction
of
>> the
>>> company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with
John
>>> Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with
Gil
>>> Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came
back
>>> to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>>>
>>> Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
>>> in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing
command
>>> lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>>>
>>> The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't
for
>>> Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>>>
>>> I don't get the disregard.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>
>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>>>> and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly,
trust
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>>>> client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP.
That's
>>>>> pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying
all
>>> along,
>>>>> which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube,
MySpace.
>>>>> That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
>> on
>>>>> a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is
that
>>> much
>>>>> of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to
funnel
>>>>> all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
>> Comcast,
>>>>> and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>>>> vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>
>>>>> I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become
a
>> MSoft
>>>>> world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks
to
>>> some
>>>>> people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking
profit
>>>>> margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not
the
>>> case.
>>>>> MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>>> until
>>>>> Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>>> essentially
>>>>> owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft
and
>>>>> Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_
free
>>>>> software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
>> right
>>>>> on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money
in
>>> 1995
>>>>> and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77581 is a reply to message #77579] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 13:05 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You missed my point, which is that "insanely great" is just a better
attitude for development efforts. Also, the old MacOS, any version, was
never that elegant as I've said many times. It had some great ideas on
top but some problems in the foundation. I was never a big fan of some
of the early Mac OS design decisions, even when I was writing for
MacWEEK, MacUser, etc. With OSX, Apple transcended the old baggage for
the better.
Also, clearly the first release of OSX wasn't as good as the latest
release. No disagreement there, and no surprise either. Do you remember
the first release of MSWindows? Appalling. The first release of AmigaOS?
Major stability problems. I could go on...
OSX has its share of networking admin tools. Some folks seem to think
they're pretty OK. You don't use it so I wouldn't expect you to be an
expert. I'm glad you like the tools you do use, you may as well enjoy
what you spend time doing. But if you want to know more about what is
available for OSX, google "osx network admin tools." For example:
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/
http://homepage.mac.com/duling/halfdozen/
http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Network-Admin/Apple-OS-X-Server -Admin-Tools-10-4-7.shtml
http://www.samspublishing.com/library/content.asp?b=Mac_OS_X _Unleashed&seqNum=189&rl=1
The chip you carry about OSX doesn't seem to be shared by a lot of folks
on slashdot, although I'm sure you have some company. No one tool is
right for everyone, and no tool is perfect. I would feel most
comfortable asking you for Linux advice, and perhaps MSWindows advice
but I think you have a blind spot about OSX. To hear you tell it, OSX is
practically unusable and should be avoided, whereas I use it every day
and can report a good user experience even with heavy media production
demands. Note that I certainly don't claim OSX is perfect (I have some
criticisms), but it seems the best option for what I do at the moment.
As I mentioned about Jobs, he was at the top spot when difficult Apple
course changes were made, and made successfully. He managed to negotiate
agreements with reticent record companies to create a commercial music
download service when no one else could pull that off. He also started
NeXT, which made great progress when Apple and MicroSoft were bogged
down. BTW Tim Berners-Lee wrote the first World Wide Web server and
browser with a NeXT box. http://www.thocp.net/biographies/berners_lee.html
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
TCB wrote:
> Two quick points. If you believe 'insanely great' you clearly never used 7.5.3
> or the first release of OS X. which as far as I can tell had to download
> the entire BSD source to run a single security patch. Second, my primary
> area of expertise is networking, not Windows administration, so I'll have
> a job as long as computers are networked, regardless of OS. However, in the
> corporate world that pretty much means Windows/Office/Outlook on the desktops,
> and in our case a combination of Windows, linux, and Solaris in the server
> room. If I had to manage 60 desktops that were all OS X machines it would
> be AT LEAST as difficult and time consuming as managing our XP boxes. Say
> what you will about MSoft, and I say plenty, but they at least give us the
> tools to manage patches and application upgrades, volume licenses for software,
> and mail/user/domain changes from a central location. I also have imaging
> tools to move out multiple machines, XP boot CDs for search and rescue, and
> so on.
>
> With some pain and suffering I could switch to linux desktops and I think
> in the long run things would be easier, save that my users would give up
> Outlook only after a bitter and deadly (for me) struggle. Unix was designed
> precisely for central management and such. OS X networks, though, I see people
> with a lot of CDs stacked up at their workstations, not the kind of central
> control I need.
>
> Lastly. Visionary? Cerf invented TCP, Stallman Emacs, Torvalds the X86 linux
> kernel, Andreesen took Mosaic and brought it to the world. What is Jobs'
> visionary achievement? The handle on the Mac? I always did like that handle
> . . .
>
> TCB
>
> TCB
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> I dunno Thad. Even when I didn't choose Macs, even when MacOS sucked, I
>
>> though "insanely great" was a much more inspiring mantra than the mere
>> "a computer on every desk." It seems to me Jobs pushed for quality,
>> sometimes, and at times when the biggest competitor was happy with good
>
>> enough. At critical moments Jobs was at the helm for major leaps at
>> Apple, when the biggest competition was content to milk backwards
>> compatibility to the stone age.
>>
>> No vague handwaving can somehow make every OS identical, every computer
>
>> identical, every company identical or history vanish into sameness. In
>> fact, choice is good and Apple has, despite some wrong turns here and
>> there, done some things very right with OSX.
>>
>> Granted OSX is not open source (past Darwin and a ton of apps). Granted
>
>> it will never pay your bills (doesn't need heavy duty administration
>> like you're used to). Granted, you can't cobble together your own OSX
>> hardware. So I expect your endearing and committed grumbling will
>> continue whenever the subject of Apple comes up.
>>
>> Did Jobs change the world? Along the way, he did have a hand in some big
>
>> things. On the down side he made some poor choices and may have crossed
>
>> the line with stock options. Gates? Probably best at accelerating the
>> commoditization of the industry, but worse as a destroyer of competition
>
>> leading to criminal indictments and a major MAJOR, uh, wrist slapping.
>> The free software and academic folks? Big contributions as you say.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> TCB wrote:
>>> Hmmmm, I scrolled back a few pages and find the following from one James
> McCloskey
>>> Esq. regarding Windows Vista
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>> Adolph Gates and the MS software Nazi's strike again!
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>> I have said myself some unkind things about El Presidente For Life Estebahn
>>> Jobs, but in none of them have I ever called him Adolf Jobs or even Steve
>>> Mussolini. So even before I begin I'm reminded of a phrase that includes
>>> the words pot, kettle, and black.
>>>
>>> That said, in addition to the things Lamont mentioned I have two problems
>>> with Steve Jobs. First, it's his relentless emphasis on what I call 'Apple
>>> Exceptionalism,' the belief that somehow something inside an Apple OS
> or
>>> piece of hardware is mystically better than anything else. They're not,
> it's
>>> just a computer and an operating system, there's nothing special about
> it
>>> at all. Some people do special things with them, but some people do special
>>> things with gardening tools, others with saxophones, and still others
> with
>>> computers running Windows believe it or not. The whole [grammatically
> incorrect]
>>> Think Different campaign only made that worse.
>>>
>>> The second thing I can't stand about Steve Jobs is the whole 'visionary
> who
>>> changed the world' thing. Neither he, nor Gates, nor any of the people
> trotted
>>> out as visionaries were anything close to it. The real visionaries in
> the
>>> world of computing are people like Marc Andreesen and Jamie Zawinski who
>>> in essence made the web usable by normal people. Vinton Cerf is a visionary.
>>> Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman are visionaries, no matter how much
>>> they can't stand each other. My old friend Stephan Sprenger, who wrote
> an
>>> SGI app that would do morphing DSP on audio files, but it was so complex
>>> in 1993 that to morph a piece of audio would take 18 hours and if you
> didn't
>>> like the results you'd have to change one parameter and try again the
> next
>>> day. That's passion and vision and caring. The person who probably fits
> that
>>> description best at Apple was/is Woz. Compared to Woz Jobs is the carny
> barker,
>>> the marketing stooge, the actor. But because he gets on stage and flashes
>>> an iPod nano he's something special. To me that diminishes the accomplishments
>>> of the true visionaries.
>>>
>>> But I never called him Adolf Jobs, just for the record.
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>> HI,
>>>>> To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>>>>> Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as
> big
>>>>> as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher
> end
>>>>> niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>
>>>>> would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>>>> politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>
>>>>> quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard
> if
>>>>> they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>
>>>>> Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>>>> windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>>>>> to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>>>>> base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>
>>>>> forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS
> was
>>>>> around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>> Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever considered
>>>> what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has benefitted
>>>> all of us?
>>>>
>>>> Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
>>> he
>>>> was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction
> of
>>> the
>>>> company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with
> John
>>>> Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with
> Gil
>>>> Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came
> back
>>>> to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>>>>
>>>> Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM terminals
>>>> in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing
> command
>>>> lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>>>>
>>>> The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't
> for
>>>> Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>>>>
>>>> I don't get the disregard.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to organize
>>>>>> and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly,
> trust
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But there are two things that will work against this. First, the corporate
>>>>>> client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP.
> That's
>>>>>> pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying
> all
>>>> along,
>>>>>> which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube,
> MySpace.
>>>>>> That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
>>> on
>>>>>> a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is
> that
>>>> much
>>>>>> of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to
> funnel
>>>>>> all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
>>> Comcast,
>>>>>> and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and hardware/software
>>>>>> vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>>>>> I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become
> a
>>> MSoft
>>>>>> world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks
> to
>>>> some
>>>>>> people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking
> profit
>>>>>> margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not
> the
>>>> case.
>>>>>> MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>>>> until
>>>>>> Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>>>> essentially
>>>>>> owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft
> and
>>>>>> Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_
> free
>>>>>> software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
>>> right
>>>>>> on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money
> in
>>>> 1995
>>>>>> and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>>> ADK
>>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>> (859) 635-5762
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Vista knows best [message #77755 is a reply to message #77557] |
Mon, 01 January 2007 13:12 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Just got around to reading the original link - this could be the end of
Windows. And I agree with you as well Lamont. Imho, both Microsoft and
Apple have done a lot to advance the personal computer industry, but they
have also conveniently crippled it for the sake of profit margin, just like
most major US companies are doing now.
If I were Warren Buffet, I would buy a linux company, load them up with
marketing and development capabilities and blitz the crap out of both
Microsoft and Apple at their own game, and build a system for consumers
rather than Sony, Disney and Microsoft/Apple.
Regards,
Dedric
On 12/28/06 8:26 PM, in article 459487f6@linux, "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net>
wrote:
> We agree LaMont. You were reading my mind.
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:4594196e$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> I think the dislike comes on 2 fronts:
>>
>> -1 When Mr Jobs stopped the Mac Clone industry. That really pissed alot of
>> Mac owners(Me included) off. They Apple were getting handed their lunch by
>> the clone macs.
>>
>> -2 The "over-hype" if you will, of the G4 prowess. As well as the G5. He
>> outright lied on it's performance capabilities. And, he continued to lie
>> when the G5 came out.
>> Too much hype that good people bought into. Then, to turn around and start
>> using the very same processor that you stated the G4 &G5 was superior to.
>> This pissed 'real" computer people off , and he (Jobs) really disccredited
>> himself in the overall computer industry.
>>
>> Yes Apple is properous again, but he's left too many bloody trails of G4's
>> & G5 to be given a pass.
>>
>> Remember all the Mac vs PC wars where good Mac owners knowinly or not
>> knowinglly
>> argued totheir were blue in the face. Convinced that the Mac they just
>> purchased
>> was "light years" faster than the current Intel offerings.. Bogus Adobe
>> Speed test, and the like..
>>
>> Then to add insult to injury, the stop development for Logic Windows!!!
>> Never
>> mind good people paid good money for that hal-baked- audio
>> recoreder/editor,
>> midi sequencer. Thinking most of us Logic Win users would switch over..
>> wel,
>> most went straight to Cubase. The others, Sonar,and even DP..But, most
>> went
>> to Cuabse.
>>
>> As a PC user (Intel/AMD) these statements from Mr Jobs were "offensive"
>> and
>> begs for an Appology to all PC (windows) users. ANd, and Applogy to all
>> Mac
>> zealots who bought in to the CPU G4/G5 speed hype.
>>
>> So, James, it's easy to see why the mention of Me Jobs stirs such venom..
>>
>> Take care,
>> LaMont
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>> HI,
>>>> To me this more than ever a time for the Linux folks to setup. I dislike
>>>
>>>> Microsoft and Apple pretty much equally. Given the chance Jobs be as big
>>>
>>>> as bully and buffoon as Gates. This would be a great time for higher end
>>>
>>>> niche type companies to really look into Linux support. I think they
>>>> would greatly benefit from it big time at this point. Allot less
>>>> politics involved then in the Windows and Apple world and much more
>>>> quality of the end product. Some companies might be hit by that hard if
>>>
>>>> they have Windows or OSX centric code base like Cakewalk or Magix.
>>>> Sense Apple have "borrowed" a UNIX/BSD core and MS have reinvented
>>>> windows 3.1 with the shell that looks like OSX why not just go directly
>>>
>>>> to Linux and cut out the retarded middle men. Glad Steinberg do their
>>
>>>> base development for Cubase and Nuendo in a Linux environment. Don't
>>>> forget they had a fully functional version on Nuendo back when Be OS was
>>>
>>>> around. Worked great with my RME Digi968 card.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why do so many people dislike Steve Jobs so much? Have you ever
>>> considered
>>> what he did for the (PC) Personal Computer industry, and how it has
>>> benefitted
>>> all of us?
>>>
>>> Chris, do you call Steve Jobs a bully because you heard the rumors that
>> he
>>> was a tuff boss, that he was anal about his vision and the direction of
>> the
>>> company he started? Can you really blame him? I think his feud with John
>>> Sculley has now proven that Steve Jobs was right. Scully, along with Gil
>>> Amelio, ran Apple in to the ground. It wasn't until Steve Jobs came back
>>> to Apple that Apple started to prosper again.
>>>
>>> Had it all been left up to IBM, at best we might have expensive IBM
>>> terminals
>>> in business. Had it been left to Microsoft, you might be still typing
>>> command
>>> lines in DOS 2007. (Dumb Operating System 2007)
>>>
>>> The PC industry certainly wouldn't be where it is today, if it wasn't for
>>> Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
>>>
>>> I don't get the disregard.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> TCB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And this doesn't even touch on the incredible PITA it will be to
>>>>> organize
>>>>> and maintain a Vista corporate/educational environment. It's ugly, trust
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But there are two things that will work against this. First, the
>>>>> corporate
>>>>> client who at some point will simply say 'no mas' and stick with XP.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> pretty much the plan in my office. Second is what I've been saying all
>>> along,
>>>>> which is that the OS doesn't really matter anymore. Google, YouTube,
>>>>> MySpace.
>>>>> That's what people want from their computers and they can be provided
>> on
>>>>> a wide range of operating systems. A third potential dark horse is that
>>> much
>>>>> of the DRM is an attempt by MSoft to force the content providers to
>>>>> funnel
>>>>> all of their content via MSoft authentication. Sony, Warner Brothers,
>> Comcast,
>>>>> and a host of other content providers, bandwidth sellers, and
>>>>> hardware/software
>>>>> vendors with deep pockets have an interest in seeing this not happen.
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was really scared when tech cratered in 2001 that it would become a
>> MSoft
>>>>> world, simply because nobody could afford to fight them. But thanks to
>>> some
>>>>> people waking up and the massive amount of money (and breathtaking
>>>>> profit
>>>>> margins) finally being generated by internet advertising that's not the
>>> case.
>>>>> MSoft had its nose bloodied severely at the outset of the console war,
>>> until
>>>>> Sony decided it would do the nice thing and blow itself to bits. Apple
>>> essentially
>>>>> owns the consumer downloaded audio market, which bloodied both MSoft and
>>>>> Sony noses. And, closest to my heart, after tech cratered the _real_
>>>>> free
>>>>> software projects, Apache, Perl, the kernel, Debian, Gnome, etc. kept
>> right
>>>>> on going just like they had before. They didn't need sleezy VC money in
>>> 1995
>>>>> and they don't need it now, and they don't need MSoft either.
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Ludwig
>>>> ADK
>>>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>> (859) 635-5762
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77757 is a reply to message #77485] |
Mon, 01 January 2007 13:33 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> Remember, you really need a 64 bit (integer, remember, the native audio math
> is a float anyway) OS if you want to address for than 4 GB of RAM. I can't
> see that being necessary for audio apps any time in the next few years.
>
Hi Thad - I may be misreading what your last comment was referring, but
needing more than 4G is a significant issue with sample libraries.
The apps don't need it and shouldn't for many years, but to run large sample
libraries, it's already a big limitation, and has been for a while.
Many composers have many PCs to host all the VSTi's and sample libraries
(one I know of has over 30) - limited ram and cpu power being the two main
reasons. For most audio/music app users 4G is enough, but if XP supported
it (doesn't actually even access all of 4G - more like 3.2G), I could use
well over 4G now.
If Vista really is the dog it sounds like, the audio industry may become
Mac-only, not Mac-centric as it once was, but Mac only, at least once XP is
mothballed by app developers. This "Vista" Microsoft thinks they are
viewing a lucrative plain from may actually be Death Valley for them in the
professional media industry. The same questions and speculations are
circulating video production forums. The movie industry is making some of
the same mistakes - too much protection and you isolate yourself to the
point of starvation.
If you hear any rumors or reason to think that Linux may be making some
headway in the pro audio/music world, keep us updated. I'm all for a 3rd
option to shake things up, or at least give us a viable pro audio/music
platform. I would lose so many apps going to Macs now it just doesn't make
sense yet, but may later this year - once Nuendo has a univ. binary version
at least.
I'm not fond of some things Apple has done and a big part of its' business
model, but if the lesser of two evils is a closed platform (Mac-OSX) vs. one
that doesn't even work with pro audio gear (PC-Vista), I'll buy a Mac,
unless another OS makes a resounding splash. Time will tell I guess.
Regards,
Dedric
On 12/26/06 5:39 PM, in article 4591b2a9$1@linux, "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com>
wrote:
>
> TCB
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>> The more I hear about Vista, the more I am thinking about (gasp!!!!)
>> switching to a Mac. Looks like they've got the 64 bit OS situation well
>
>> covered and Vista looks to be a cluster**** looking for a place to happen.
>>
>> damn!!!...........democrats running congress and now this??????..........I
>
>> never thought things would get this bad. Next thing you know, pigs are gonna
>
>> be leaving contrails in the stratosphere.
>>
>> ;o(
>>
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45917d15$1@linux...
>>>
>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Vista knows best [message #77766 is a reply to message #77757] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 07:38 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
While what you say about sample libraries is true, pro audio is already a
tiny market for mainstream software/hardware vendors, and the subset of people
who fit your description in the pro audio world is a small subset of that.
I would expect that companies would rather build 64 bit XP drivers than Vista
drivers under most circumstances.
I don't think any vendors will get on the linux bus any time soon. It takes
some real forward thinking to do that right, and I don't see a combination
of hardware/software ready to take that leap. Also, something like ASIO and
VST would have to go to linux, and I don't see Steinberg (or anyone else)
doing that under the GPL, which is how it would make the most sense. But
we can hope, I guess.
TCB
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> Remember, you really need a 64 bit (integer, remember, the native audio
math
>> is a float anyway) OS if you want to address for than 4 GB of RAM. I can't
>> see that being necessary for audio apps any time in the next few years.
>>
>
>Hi Thad - I may be misreading what your last comment was referring, but
>needing more than 4G is a significant issue with sample libraries.
>The apps don't need it and shouldn't for many years, but to run large sample
>libraries, it's already a big limitation, and has been for a while.
>
>Many composers have many PCs to host all the VSTi's and sample libraries
>(one I know of has over 30) - limited ram and cpu power being the two main
>reasons. For most audio/music app users 4G is enough, but if XP supported
>it (doesn't actually even access all of 4G - more like 3.2G), I could use
>well over 4G now.
>
>If Vista really is the dog it sounds like, the audio industry may become
>Mac-only, not Mac-centric as it once was, but Mac only, at least once XP
is
>mothballed by app developers. This "Vista" Microsoft thinks they are
>viewing a lucrative plain from may actually be Death Valley for them in
the
>professional media industry. The same questions and speculations are
>circulating video production forums. The movie industry is making some
of
>the same mistakes - too much protection and you isolate yourself to the
>point of starvation.
>
>If you hear any rumors or reason to think that Linux may be making some
>headway in the pro audio/music world, keep us updated. I'm all for a 3rd
>option to shake things up, or at least give us a viable pro audio/music
>platform. I would lose so many apps going to Macs now it just doesn't make
>sense yet, but may later this year - once Nuendo has a univ. binary version
>at least.
>
>I'm not fond of some things Apple has done and a big part of its' business
>model, but if the lesser of two evils is a closed platform (Mac-OSX) vs.
one
>that doesn't even work with pro audio gear (PC-Vista), I'll buy a Mac,
>unless another OS makes a resounding splash. Time will tell I guess.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 12/26/06 5:39 PM, in article 4591b2a9$1@linux, "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>> The more I hear about Vista, the more I am thinking about (gasp!!!!)
>>> switching to a Mac. Looks like they've got the 64 bit OS situation well
>>
>>> covered and Vista looks to be a cluster**** looking for a place to happen.
>>>
>>> damn!!!...........democrats running congress and now this??????..........I
>>
>>> never thought things would get this bad. Next thing you know, pigs are
gonna
>>
>>> be leaving contrails in the stratosphere.
>>>
>>> ;o(
>>>
>>>
>>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45917d15$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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