Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Hip hop
| Hip hop [message #81016] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 13:33  |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all again
I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar player--at
one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been nailed
to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do THAT.'
So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of dollars
and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to music.
They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can imagine
a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in Europe,
and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke party
where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said to
themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A disproportionate
number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch will
prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued music
with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music themselves
is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
your day any less pleasant.
And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of lovely
Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold top.
I didn't get any takers last time.
TCB
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81025 is a reply to message #81016] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 15:40  |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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Time to open my big mouth!
I'm not saying there's no art to it. When the record companies figured out
that they weren't going to have to put out 18 tractor trailers full of Marshall
stacks for a rock tour anymore, RAP was in. It was a lot cheaper to throw
three guys out on the road with two turn tables and a couple of mics. They
didn't even have the expense of expensive wardrobes, they could get the baggy
look right at the second hand clothes store for next to nothing. It was
cheap and they knew they could sell it to the suckers and make more money.
One of the other problems with rap is there is no room to some degree for
any thing else. Once Michael Jackson cried about there being no black artist
on MTV, everything changed. It wasn't completely true, I had a buddy that
had a video on MTV and he was black. It was unfair and unbalanced the other
way. Anyways, Yo MTV RAPS killed it for a long time for any other kind of
music. If you go on MTV right now tell me what the ratio is after watching
ten music videos, if you can find any music videos anymore. It's obvious
to see.
MTV also screwed up their format and programming with dumb reality TV show
that had nothing to do with music. To me it is obvious that they didn't
know what to do. Now MTV is on the slide and laying off many people. I
wish I didn't have to pay for MTV in my cable bill, and subsidize their dumb
ass crap rap bullshit programming.
I worked with and produced rappers in the past, both white and black. I
can tell you there are a lot of rappers that don't know anything about music
and many have no talent. There are some talented guys out there too. I
will never work with rappers ever again. I have no interest in dealing with
their mentality, or the rest of the bullshit that goes with them. I've heard
vary little rap music that wasn't screwed up in some way! I speak of the
lyrical content.
The problem is most of it is about screwed up shit, or it is just nonsensical
gibberish. That's not art, it's just crap. The criminal side of it, is
bastard thinking that brings us all down to the lowest level. Rap music
and it's artist heavily promote criminal and bad behavior. Decent people
in the past would have shunned this kind of music because of it's content.
For the industry to accept and glorify this kind of music and bad behavior
is wrong. It should be socially unacceptable! Criminal behavior should
be socially unacceptable. It's typical that the industry wants to turn right
wrong and wrong right. They want to pervert any thing that is true and right.
Sing about life and hard times is OK. Blues lyrics are one thing, but most
rap lyrics are another. It's a lot of low class shit. It's a bunch of trash
that young influential minds should never been exposed to. Because of the
power of the record industry, kids don't know any thing else. They don't
have exposure to anything else. Rap took over. A lot of it musically is
bad. Now I know that not all rap music is bad, but the fact most of the main
stream rap is. Rap is not over and never will be, but, If rap was over as
we know it, gangster/hardcore rap, it would be a good think for all.
TCB, I know your trying to say rap is a great thing, but it's not. It just
sucks over all, and it's done a lot of harm to society So you can say that
RAP is great artistic music, and I'll tell you most people are sick of it,
and it's starting to show.
James
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all again
>I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>
>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>
>Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar player--at
>one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
>before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
nailed
>to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do THAT.'
>So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of dollars
>and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to music.
>They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
>point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can imagine
>a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
>me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
Europe,
>and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke party
>where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
>to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>
>If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
>Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said to
>themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A disproportionate
>number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch will
>prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued music
>with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
>see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music themselves
>is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
>to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
>your day any less pleasant.
>
>And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
>my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of lovely
>Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
top.
>I didn't get any takers last time.
>
>TCB
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81028 is a reply to message #81016] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 15:11 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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I'll certainly not take you up on your offer. I'm sure that scratching is an
art in itself. It's just not a sonic result that I particularly like to
hear. I just really don't like the seeming sameness of the genre. I can turn
on just about any radio station and before I try to find something else on
another channel I always seem to hear something that is immediately boring
and I identify it with someone playing a recording of a recording of
something someone else did, but just changed it up so that it's no longer
original.
I dunno.............it was a novelty when I first got ACID
..................now, I am into something else entirely. I just can't see,
personally, how it could be so popular for so long without evolving more.
Maybe it has and I've been tuning it out.....but I've been tuning it out
because it sounds like the same old same old..........so like I said...I
dunno.......I am increasingly becomeing a crtchety old fart. Maybe that's
the problem.
;o)
Deej
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45e88a18$1@linux...
>
> We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all
> again
> I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>
> Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar
> player--at
> one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
> before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
> nailed
> to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do
> THAT.'
> So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of
> dollars
> and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to
> music.
> They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
> point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can
> imagine
> a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
> me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
> Europe,
> and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke
> party
> where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
> to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>
> If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
> Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said to
> themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A
> disproportionate
> number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch
> will
> prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued
> music
> with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
> see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music
> themselves
> is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
> to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
> your day any less pleasant.
>
> And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
> my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of
> lovely
> Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
> top.
> I didn't get any takers last time.
>
> TCB
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81054 is a reply to message #81016] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 20:29 |
Doug Wellington
Messages: 251
Registered: June 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
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Senior Member |
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NOTE: I'm assuming that this topic came about because of the discussion
of rap. If not, then I invite you to mark this post as "read" and move
on to the next one...
> We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all again
> I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
Gawd, I can't get around to my current back list of movies...Scratch
ain't gonna happen for me in the near future. So, help me out here,
what is the deal with hip hop and rap? Aren't they different? Am I
proving what a "white boy" I am when I ask if hip hop is what used to be
called "R&B" but updated with newer instruments and better recording
gear? I used to LOVE Motown, but I find the current crop of "urban
elements" based stuff boring and predictable. Sample some wailing chick
for an hour and then chop it up and play it over top of some drum loop
with some synth bleeps and bloops. Yawn... And rap seems to be some
bad-attitude punk either complaining or bragging over top of some
sampled beat. The worst was when I heard some rapper talking about his
grandmother...well, I can't even type it, it was so bad!!! (And if you
know me, you'll know that I'm not afraid to type much...) That was just
uncalled for...
From a technical standpoint, I hate it when I immediately think to
myself, "oh, that guy is still using a Triton," or "yeah, yeah, I've got
that beat in the Electribe..." (And it isn't limited to hip hop - I've
heard the same thing in Jean-Michel Jarre's music too.) It's rare when
I hear something on the local hip-hop or urban-elements stations that I
think is truly creative - something that I sit up and pay attention to,
something that I don't immediately think that I could replicate in a
couple hours with the sampler...
> Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar
> player--at one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy.
Yeah, I got to see Buddy right after SRV died... SRV, Eric Johnson and
Ernie Isley are the three guys that motivated me to start playing music
myself.
> And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
> my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of lovely
> Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold top.
> I didn't get any takers last time.
KXCI had a DJ contest a couple years ago. There was some real
scratching talent there. But I certainly don't remember any rappers in
that crowd. I remember the first time I heard a guy scratching that I
thought sounded good - the guy with Incubus - but a big part of it was
the overall sound of the band. Most scratching I've heard seems to be
just wanking - sort of like listening to Kaki King on guitar - great
technical chops, but no real musical context...
Doug
http://www.parisfaqs.com
http://www.parisfaqs.com
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81057 is a reply to message #81025] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 22:10 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Amen James..
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Time to open my big mouth!
>
>I'm not saying there's no art to it. When the record companies figured
out
>that they weren't going to have to put out 18 tractor trailers full of Marshall
>stacks for a rock tour anymore, RAP was in. It was a lot cheaper to throw
>three guys out on the road with two turn tables and a couple of mics. They
>didn't even have the expense of expensive wardrobes, they could get the
baggy
>look right at the second hand clothes store for next to nothing. It was
>cheap and they knew they could sell it to the suckers and make more money.
>
>One of the other problems with rap is there is no room to some degree for
>any thing else. Once Michael Jackson cried about there being no black artist
>on MTV, everything changed. It wasn't completely true, I had a buddy that
>had a video on MTV and he was black. It was unfair and unbalanced the
other
>way. Anyways, Yo MTV RAPS killed it for a long time for any other kind
of
>music. If you go on MTV right now tell me what the ratio is after watching
>ten music videos, if you can find any music videos anymore. It's obvious
>to see.
>
>MTV also screwed up their format and programming with dumb reality TV show
>that had nothing to do with music. To me it is obvious that they didn't
>know what to do. Now MTV is on the slide and laying off many people. I
>wish I didn't have to pay for MTV in my cable bill, and subsidize their
dumb
>ass crap rap bullshit programming.
>
>I worked with and produced rappers in the past, both white and black. I
>can tell you there are a lot of rappers that don't know anything about music
>and many have no talent. There are some talented guys out there too. I
>will never work with rappers ever again. I have no interest in dealing
with
>their mentality, or the rest of the bullshit that goes with them. I've
heard
>vary little rap music that wasn't screwed up in some way! I speak of the
>lyrical content.
>
>The problem is most of it is about screwed up shit, or it is just nonsensical
>gibberish. That's not art, it's just crap. The criminal side of it, is
>bastard thinking that brings us all down to the lowest level. Rap music
>and it's artist heavily promote criminal and bad behavior. Decent people
>in the past would have shunned this kind of music because of it's content.
> For the industry to accept and glorify this kind of music and bad behavior
>is wrong. It should be socially unacceptable! Criminal behavior should
>be socially unacceptable. It's typical that the industry wants to turn
right
>wrong and wrong right. They want to pervert any thing that is true and
right.
>
>
>Sing about life and hard times is OK. Blues lyrics are one thing, but most
>rap lyrics are another. It's a lot of low class shit. It's a bunch of
trash
>that young influential minds should never been exposed to. Because of the
>power of the record industry, kids don't know any thing else. They don't
>have exposure to anything else. Rap took over. A lot of it musically is
>bad. Now I know that not all rap music is bad, but the fact most of the
main
>stream rap is. Rap is not over and never will be, but, If rap was over
as
>we know it, gangster/hardcore rap, it would be a good think for all.
>
>TCB, I know your trying to say rap is a great thing, but it's not. It just
>sucks over all, and it's done a lot of harm to society So you can say that
>RAP is great artistic music, and I'll tell you most people are sick of it,
>and it's starting to show.
>
>James
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all again
>>I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>>
>>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>>
>>Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar player--at
>>one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
>>before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
>nailed
>>to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do THAT.'
>>So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of dollars
>>and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to music.
>>They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
>>point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can
imagine
>>a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
>>me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
>Europe,
>>and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke
party
>>where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
>>to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>>
>>If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
>>Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said
to
>>themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A
disproportionate
>>number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch
will
>>prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued music
>>with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
>>see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music themselves
>>is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
>>to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
>>your day any less pleasant.
>>
>>And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
>>my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of lovely
>>Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
>top.
>>I didn't get any takers last time.
>>
>>TCB
>
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81058 is a reply to message #81054] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 22:20 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Just rent the DVD. Hip hop is a noun. Rap is a verb.
TCB
Doug Wellington <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>NOTE: I'm assuming that this topic came about because of the discussion
>of rap. If not, then I invite you to mark this post as "read" and move
>on to the next one...
>
>> We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all
again
>> I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>
>Gawd, I can't get around to my current back list of movies...Scratch
>ain't gonna happen for me in the near future. So, help me out here,
>what is the deal with hip hop and rap? Aren't they different? Am I
>proving what a "white boy" I am when I ask if hip hop is what used to be
>called "R&B" but updated with newer instruments and better recording
>gear? I used to LOVE Motown, but I find the current crop of "urban
>elements" based stuff boring and predictable. Sample some wailing chick
>for an hour and then chop it up and play it over top of some drum loop
>with some synth bleeps and bloops. Yawn... And rap seems to be some
>bad-attitude punk either complaining or bragging over top of some
>sampled beat. The worst was when I heard some rapper talking about his
>grandmother...well, I can't even type it, it was so bad!!! (And if you
>know me, you'll know that I'm not afraid to type much...) That was just
>uncalled for...
>
> From a technical standpoint, I hate it when I immediately think to
>myself, "oh, that guy is still using a Triton," or "yeah, yeah, I've got
>that beat in the Electribe..." (And it isn't limited to hip hop - I've
>heard the same thing in Jean-Michel Jarre's music too.) It's rare when
>I hear something on the local hip-hop or urban-elements stations that I
>think is truly creative - something that I sit up and pay attention to,
>something that I don't immediately think that I could replicate in a
>couple hours with the sampler...
>
>> Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar
> > player--at one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy.
>
>Yeah, I got to see Buddy right after SRV died... SRV, Eric Johnson and
>Ernie Isley are the three guys that motivated me to start playing music
>myself.
>
>> And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over
to
>> my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of
lovely
>> Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
top.
>> I didn't get any takers last time.
>
>KXCI had a DJ contest a couple years ago. There was some real
>scratching talent there. But I certainly don't remember any rappers in
>that crowd. I remember the first time I heard a guy scratching that I
>thought sounded good - the guy with Incubus - but a big part of it was
>the overall sound of the band. Most scratching I've heard seems to be
>just wanking - sort of like listening to Kaki King on guitar - great
>technical chops, but no real musical context...
>
>Doug
>
>http://www.parisfaqs.com
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81060 is a reply to message #81057] |
Fri, 02 March 2007 22:32 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Time for me to say something:
The beats creation OK.. I'll give that the label of Art Form.
Some creative Sampling:
The Vocal Gymnastics : Art form..
That's it..
Todays and most of the later 90's lyrics : God are awful, embarrasing. Sadistic,
Disrespectful to women, shameful. No art form what so ever!!
Learn to play an instrument!!! They are lazy. Not wanting to put in the time
to LEARN MUSIC and Create original music..!!!!
Having said that: Ludicris & Mary Bliege's "Runnaway Love" is a Very Positve,
very inspiring. That's Rap , That's Hip Hop!!!
LAD
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Amen James..
>
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Time to open my big mouth!
>>
>>I'm not saying there's no art to it. When the record companies figured
>out
>>that they weren't going to have to put out 18 tractor trailers full of
Marshall
>>stacks for a rock tour anymore, RAP was in. It was a lot cheaper to throw
>>three guys out on the road with two turn tables and a couple of mics.
They
>>didn't even have the expense of expensive wardrobes, they could get the
>baggy
>>look right at the second hand clothes store for next to nothing. It was
>>cheap and they knew they could sell it to the suckers and make more money.
>>
>>One of the other problems with rap is there is no room to some degree for
>>any thing else. Once Michael Jackson cried about there being no black
artist
>>on MTV, everything changed. It wasn't completely true, I had a buddy that
>>had a video on MTV and he was black. It was unfair and unbalanced the
>other
>>way. Anyways, Yo MTV RAPS killed it for a long time for any other kind
>of
>>music. If you go on MTV right now tell me what the ratio is after watching
>>ten music videos, if you can find any music videos anymore. It's obvious
>>to see.
>>
>>MTV also screwed up their format and programming with dumb reality TV show
>>that had nothing to do with music. To me it is obvious that they didn't
>>know what to do. Now MTV is on the slide and laying off many people.
I
>>wish I didn't have to pay for MTV in my cable bill, and subsidize their
>dumb
>>ass crap rap bullshit programming.
>>
>>I worked with and produced rappers in the past, both white and black.
I
>>can tell you there are a lot of rappers that don't know anything about
music
>>and many have no talent. There are some talented guys out there too.
I
>>will never work with rappers ever again. I have no interest in dealing
>with
>>their mentality, or the rest of the bullshit that goes with them. I've
>heard
>>vary little rap music that wasn't screwed up in some way! I speak of the
>>lyrical content.
>>
>>The problem is most of it is about screwed up shit, or it is just nonsensical
>>gibberish. That's not art, it's just crap. The criminal side of it, is
>>bastard thinking that brings us all down to the lowest level. Rap music
>>and it's artist heavily promote criminal and bad behavior. Decent people
>>in the past would have shunned this kind of music because of it's content.
>> For the industry to accept and glorify this kind of music and bad behavior
>>is wrong. It should be socially unacceptable! Criminal behavior should
>>be socially unacceptable. It's typical that the industry wants to turn
>right
>>wrong and wrong right. They want to pervert any thing that is true and
>right.
>>
>>
>>Sing about life and hard times is OK. Blues lyrics are one thing, but most
>>rap lyrics are another. It's a lot of low class shit. It's a bunch of
>trash
>>that young influential minds should never been exposed to. Because of
the
>>power of the record industry, kids don't know any thing else. They don't
>>have exposure to anything else. Rap took over. A lot of it musically
is
>>bad. Now I know that not all rap music is bad, but the fact most of the
>main
>>stream rap is. Rap is not over and never will be, but, If rap was over
>as
>>we know it, gangster/hardcore rap, it would be a good think for all.
>>
>>TCB, I know your trying to say rap is a great thing, but it's not. It
just
>>sucks over all, and it's done a lot of harm to society So you can say
that
>>RAP is great artistic music, and I'll tell you most people are sick of
it,
>>and it's starting to show.
>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all
again
>>>I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>>>
>>>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>>>
>>>Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar player--at
>>>one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
>>>before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
>>nailed
>>>to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do
THAT.'
>>>So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of
dollars
>>>and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to
music.
>>>They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
>>>point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can
>imagine
>>>a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
>>>me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
>>Europe,
>>>and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke
>party
>>>where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
>>>to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>>>
>>>If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
>>>Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said
>to
>>>themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A
>disproportionate
>>>number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch
>will
>>>prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued
music
>>>with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have.
To
>>>see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music themselves
>>>is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
>>>to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
>>>your day any less pleasant.
>>>
>>>And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over
to
>>>my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of
lovely
>>>Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
>>top.
>>>I didn't get any takers last time.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81087 is a reply to message #81016] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 09:16 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Appreciation for aesthetics and art are totally subjective. People respond
to art that is at or slightly above the emotion at which they themselves
communicate.
There is a Tone Scale of emotions (much like a musical scale) from low and
very solid to high and extremely light. It is a very valuble tool for
anyone, and especially for artists, as what we are doing is creating an
emotional impact on the person to whom we communicate. Here is a link to an
explanation of the Emotional Tone Scale:
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH4_1.HTM
It's easier to understand why a person likes a particular style of music or
art (or any communication for that matter), if you spot their emotional tone
level. In fact what they respond to is a direct indicator.
Bill L
As musicians or at leastr music-makers, you all should be able to appreciate
The Emotional Tone Scale. Here is an abbreviated version
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45e88a18$1@linux...
>
> We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all
> again
> I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>
> Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar
> player--at
> one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
> before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
> nailed
> to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do
> THAT.'
> So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of
> dollars
> and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to
> music.
> They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
> point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can
> imagine
> a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
> me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
> Europe,
> and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke
> party
> where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
> to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>
> If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
> Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said to
> themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A
> disproportionate
> number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch
> will
> prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued
> music
> with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
> see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music
> themselves
> is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
> to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
> your day any less pleasant.
>
> And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
> my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of
> lovely
> Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
> top.
> I didn't get any takers last time.
>
> TCB
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81094 is a reply to message #81092] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 12:22 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Doug Wellington <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>Bill Lorentzen wrote:
>> Appreciation for aesthetics and art are totally subjective.
>
>So true...
I'm actually going to disagree here. Just in one small way.
Here is something objective you can say about this:
The majority of people, if exposed to great music, (for the sake
of discussion, let's say Bach, Bird, & Jimi) will appreciate
at least some of it and their lives will be better because of
the improvement in their artistic horizons.
Therefore, while our personal enjoyment of music is a subjective
one, in that each person responds differently, music has objective
elements and those are things we all share if we have been
exposed to it.
It's one thing to say that we experience music subjectively,
it's quite another to say that since we do, it is totally a matter
of opinion...
Music appreciation classes should start in high school and
at least one course in college. IM-ever-so-HO
DC
|
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81101 is a reply to message #81094] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 14:54 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You are right because great art can reach one on a spiritual level. It can
cut through whatever you have going on in your life and lift you up or bring
you down.
My comments were more on a general level, that people will like art that is
parallel to or slightly above their emotional level. Happy people will
mostly like to listen to music (or any form of communication) that has a
happiness to it. Griefy people will like sad music.
BL
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:45e9caf2$1@linux...
>
> Doug Wellington <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>>Bill Lorentzen wrote:
>>> Appreciation for aesthetics and art are totally subjective.
>>
>>So true...
>
> I'm actually going to disagree here. Just in one small way.
>
> Here is something objective you can say about this:
>
> The majority of people, if exposed to great music, (for the sake
> of discussion, let's say Bach, Bird, & Jimi) will appreciate
> at least some of it and their lives will be better because of
> the improvement in their artistic horizons.
>
> Therefore, while our personal enjoyment of music is a subjective
> one, in that each person responds differently, music has objective
> elements and those are things we all share if we have been
> exposed to it.
>
> It's one thing to say that we experience music subjectively,
> it's quite another to say that since we do, it is totally a matter
> of opinion...
>
> Music appreciation classes should start in high school and
> at least one course in college. IM-ever-so-HO
>
> DC
>
|
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81102 is a reply to message #81028] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 14:59 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The very first "hip hop" I heard was Soul to Soul's "Keep on Moving". I
thought it was brilliant. It was also very uplifting. I think it changed,
man.
Bill L
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:45e8af5d@linux...
> I'll certainly not take you up on your offer. I'm sure that scratching is
> an art in itself. It's just not a sonic result that I particularly like to
> hear. I just really don't like the seeming sameness of the genre. I can
> turn on just about any radio station and before I try to find something
> else on another channel I always seem to hear something that is
> immediately boring and I identify it with someone playing a recording of a
> recording of something someone else did, but just changed it up so that
> it's no longer original.
>
> I dunno.............it was a novelty when I first got ACID
> .................now, I am into something else entirely. I just can't see,
> personally, how it could be so popular for so long without evolving more.
> Maybe it has and I've been tuning it out.....but I've been tuning it out
> because it sounds like the same old same old..........so like I said...I
> dunno.......I am increasingly becomeing a crtchety old fart. Maybe that's
> the problem.
>
> ;o)
>
> Deej
>
>
>
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45e88a18$1@linux...
>>
>> We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all
>> again
>> I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>>
>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>>
>> Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar
>> player--at
>> one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
>> before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
>> nailed
>> to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do
>> THAT.'
>> So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of
>> dollars
>> and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to
>> music.
>> They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
>> point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can
>> imagine
>> a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid,
>> introduced
>> me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
>> Europe,
>> and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke
>> party
>> where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
>> to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>>
>> If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw
>> Grandmaster
>> Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said to
>> themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A
>> disproportionate
>> number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch
>> will
>> prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued
>> music
>> with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
>> see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music
>> themselves
>> is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
>> to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
>> your day any less pleasant.
>>
>> And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
>> my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of
>> lovely
>> Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
>> top.
>> I didn't get any takers last time.
>>
>> TCB
>
>
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81109 is a reply to message #81094] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 16:38 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, I kinw that I certainly feelwarm and cozy after hearing the word
*pimp*, numerous times per day in every imaginable contest...I mean, what
could glorify a subject more than the desire to *pimp* it?
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:45e9caf2$1@linux...
>
> Doug Wellington <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>>Bill Lorentzen wrote:
>>> Appreciation for aesthetics and art are totally subjective.
>>
>>So true...
>
> I'm actually going to disagree here. Just in one small way.
>
> Here is something objective you can say about this:
>
> The majority of people, if exposed to great music, (for the sake
> of discussion, let's say Bach, Bird, & Jimi) will appreciate
> at least some of it and their lives will be better because of
> the improvement in their artistic horizons.
>
> Therefore, while our personal enjoyment of music is a subjective
> one, in that each person responds differently, music has objective
> elements and those are things we all share if we have been
> exposed to it.
>
> It's one thing to say that we experience music subjectively,
> it's quite another to say that since we do, it is totally a matter
> of opinion...
>
> Music appreciation classes should start in high school and
> at least one course in college. IM-ever-so-HO
>
> DC
>
|
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81112 is a reply to message #81109] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 18:18 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ok, now make SURE you are not eating or drinking when you
this or you will be cleaning for hours...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuChM3_dZ4
It's time to unpimp your auto!!
heh heh
DC
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>Well, I kinw that I certainly feelwarm and cozy after hearing the word
>*pimp*, numerous times per day in every imaginable contest...I mean, what
>could glorify a subject more than the desire to *pimp* it?
>
>
>
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:45e9caf2$1@linux...
>>
>> Doug Wellington <doug@parisfaqs.com> wrote:
>>>Bill Lorentzen wrote:
>>>> Appreciation for aesthetics and art are totally subjective.
>>>
>>>So true...
>>
>> I'm actually going to disagree here. Just in one small way.
>>
>> Here is something objective you can say about this:
>>
>> The majority of people, if exposed to great music, (for the sake
>> of discussion, let's say Bach, Bird, & Jimi) will appreciate
>> at least some of it and their lives will be better because of
>> the improvement in their artistic horizons.
>>
>> Therefore, while our personal enjoyment of music is a subjective
>> one, in that each person responds differently, music has objective
>> elements and those are things we all share if we have been
>> exposed to it.
>>
>> It's one thing to say that we experience music subjectively,
>> it's quite another to say that since we do, it is totally a matter
>> of opinion...
>>
>> Music appreciation classes should start in high school and
>> at least one course in college. IM-ever-so-HO
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81114 is a reply to message #81016] |
Sat, 03 March 2007 18:28 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yo, word, know what I'm sayin'?
I, too, admired Grand Master Flash's ability to literally "play
records", especially after hearing Teri Gross's interview with him. And one
of my favorite records, "Dummy" by Portishead has lots of cool scratching on
it. But as others have already said, admiring someone's skill doesn't mean
I like listening to what they're doing. I admire the skill of guitarists
who can play 10,000 notes a second, but I don't have any records of that
style. Music is a mixture of creativity, emotion, and technical skill, I
personally like music that leans heavily on the creativity/emotional side.
I can tolerate a lot of rough edges if the music is creative and has feeling
(Rolling Stones, Talking Heads, Bob Dylan, etc.) I don't really care about
musical acrobatics if they're not rooted in feeling and creativity.
My main problem with most (not all) rap, hip-hop, rap-hop, whatever, is
that I don't see a lot of creativity, and I question the skill of putting on
a big coat, waving your arms around, holding the mike like an erect penis,
and talking about how "bad" you are in rhymes that sound like they were
written by a sixth grader. YAWN! And the predominant emotion seems to be
hostile machismo. I hate machismo, whether it's in music or any other
aspect of life.
A black DJ friend told me I don't "understand" rap because I'm not
black. Uh huh. So how come the biggest market for rap is teenage white
boys? The same people who like that cheezy, oh-so-scary metal and hardcore.
But to be fair, I don't like most pop music, because most of it is so
predictable, derivative, and shallow. There's a dearth of real creativity
on the airwaves these days. Sadly, the image takes priority over the art.
Hey, I don't care, it's all just opinion. I make my own music if I
wanna hear something interesting. If you want something done right, do it
yourself. :)
Sarah
www.sarahtonin.com/wayward.htm
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:45e88a18$1@linux...
>
> We've had this discussion here before, but rather than go over it all
> again
> I suggest you all rent Scratch and watch it.
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143861/
>
> Having been a casual musician all of my life, at 17 I saw a guitar
> player--at
> one of the low points in his career--named Buddy Guy. Probably 2-3 years
> before 'Damn Right I Got the Blues' came out. I might as well have been
> nailed
> to the floor I was so blown away. That moment I decided 'I want to do
> THAT.'
> So began what is now almost 20 years of spending tens of thousands of
> dollars
> and hours playing, writing, recording, writing about and listening to
> music.
> They have not always been good times, not by a long stretch, but at this
> point in my life I can imagine it without music about as much as I can
> imagine
> a life without water. Music has gotten me jobs, gotten me laid, introduced
> me to new people, supported the material needs of my life for a year in
> Europe,
> and a few weeks ago let me shock and awe my entire office at a karaoke
> party
> where I sang 'Wonderwall' to a bunch of finance geeks. All because I went
> to a Buddy Guy show because I had read Eric Clapton liked him.
>
> If you rent Scratch you find out that a generation of DJ's saw Grandmaster
> Flash play Rockit with Herbie Hancock on the Grammy's in 1985 and said to
> themselves 'I want to do THAT' just like I did when I saw Buddy Guy. A
> disproportionate
> number, though not all, were young, urban, and black. Watching Scratch
> will
> prove to anyone willing to take an honest view that they have pursued
> music
> with at least as much passion, dedication, and inspiration as I have. To
> see that mocked and maligned by people who supposedly love music
> themselves
> is simply repulsive, especially when it's obvious that they don't listen
> to it. Having other people make hip hop nether costs you a dime or makes
> your day any less pleasant.
>
> And if it's so simple and uncreative, I once again invite anyone over to
> my house to show me how to scratch and beat mix better on the pair of
> lovely
> Technics 1200s that sit next to my Danelectro bass and my Les Paul gold
> top.
> I didn't get any takers last time.
>
> TCB
|
|
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81121 is a reply to message #81114] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 00:15 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:45ea2ee3@linux...
> Yo, word, know what I'm sayin'?
>
> I, too, admired Grand Master Flash's ability to literally "play
> records", especially after hearing Teri Gross's interview with him. And
> one of my favorite records, "Dummy" by Portishead has lots of cool
> scratching on it. But as others have already said, admiring someone's
> skill doesn't mean I like listening to what they're doing. I admire the
> skill of guitarists who can play 10,000 notes a second, but I don't have
> any records of that style. Music is a mixture of creativity, emotion, and
> technical skill, I personally like music that leans heavily on the
> creativity/emotional side. I can tolerate a lot of rough edges if the
> music is creative and has feeling (Rolling Stones, Talking Heads, Bob
> Dylan, etc.) I don't really care about musical acrobatics if they're not
> rooted in feeling and creativity.
>
> My main problem with most (not all) rap, hip-hop, rap-hop, whatever, is
> that I don't see a lot of creativity, and I question the skill of putting
> on a big coat, waving your arms around, holding the mike like an erect
> penis, and talking about how "bad" you are in rhymes that sound like they
> were written by a sixth grader. YAWN! And the predominant emotion seems
> to be hostile machismo. I hate machismo, whether it's in music or any
> other aspect of life.
>
> A black DJ friend told me I don't "understand" rap because I'm not
> black. Uh huh. So how come the biggest market for rap is teenage white
> boys? The same people who like that cheezy, oh-so-scary metal and
> hardcore.
>
> But to be fair, I don't like most pop music, because most of it is so
> predictable, derivative, and shallow. There's a dearth of real creativity
> on the airwaves these days. Sadly, the image takes priority over the art.
>
> Hey, I don't care, it's all just opinion. I make my own music if I
> wanna hear something interesting. If you want something done right, do it
> yourself. :)
>
> Sarah
I never watch this show.....ever..........but a friend just sent me this
link. I'm just enough of an old fart for this performance to give me
chills.....
now if we could just get some kind of sampled beat and a 10Hz - 120Hz
subbass filter sweep going with this song at around 90dB..........
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R0hTG3X7sKw
BTW, I just uncovered your last e-mail in a batch that got filtered somehow.
I'm in the process of getting this straightened out and I'll get back to you
on the session stuff.
Thanks,
Deej
|
|
|
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| Re: Hip hop [message #81128 is a reply to message #81121] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 09:03 |
Bill Lorentzen
Messages: 140
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Great Youtube. I play that tune almost every gig. It's one of the greatest
standards we have. Don't forget, without the song you're just bobbing in the
water holding onto a paddle. I'm very happy she exposed the Idol public to
the zenith of the songwriter's art.
Bill L
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:45ea8049@linux...
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:45ea2ee3@linux...
>> Yo, word, know what I'm sayin'?
>>
>> I, too, admired Grand Master Flash's ability to literally "play
>> records", especially after hearing Teri Gross's interview with him. And
>> one of my favorite records, "Dummy" by Portishead has lots of cool
>> scratching on it. But as others have already said, admiring someone's
>> skill doesn't mean I like listening to what they're doing. I admire the
>> skill of guitarists who can play 10,000 notes a second, but I don't have
>> any records of that style. Music is a mixture of creativity, emotion,
>> and technical skill, I personally like music that leans heavily on the
>> creativity/emotional side. I can tolerate a lot of rough edges if the
>> music is creative and has feeling (Rolling Stones, Talking Heads, Bob
>> Dylan, etc.) I don't really care about musical acrobatics if they're not
>> rooted in feeling and creativity.
>>
>> My main problem with most (not all) rap, hip-hop, rap-hop, whatever,
>> is that I don't see a lot of creativity, and I question the skill of
>> putting on a big coat, waving your arms around, holding the mike like an
>> erect penis, and talking about how "bad" you are in rhymes that sound
>> like they were written by a sixth grader. YAWN! And the predominant
>> emotion seems to be hostile machismo. I hate machismo, whether it's in
>> music or any other aspect of life.
>>
>> A black DJ friend told me I don't "understand" rap because I'm not
>> black. Uh huh. So how come the biggest market for rap is teenage white
>> boys? The same people who like that cheezy, oh-so-scary metal and
>> hardcore.
>>
>> But to be fair, I don't like most pop music, because most of it is so
>> predictable, derivative, and shallow. There's a dearth of real
>> creativity on the airwaves these days. Sadly, the image takes priority
>> over the art.
>>
>> Hey, I don't care, it's all just opinion. I make my own music if I
>> wanna hear something interesting. If you want something done right, do
>> it yourself. :)
>>
>> Sarah
>
> I never watch this show.....ever..........but a friend just sent me this
> link. I'm just enough of an old fart for this performance to give me
> chills.....
>
> now if we could just get some kind of sampled beat and a 10Hz - 120Hz
> subbass filter sweep going with this song at around 90dB..........
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=R0hTG3X7sKw
>
> BTW, I just uncovered your last e-mail in a batch that got filtered
> somehow. I'm in the process of getting this straightened out and I'll get
> back to you on the session stuff.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Deej
>
>
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