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Which mic? [message #104008] Thu, 27 August 2009 19:56 Go to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Hello Parisites,

I currently use a Equitek CAD e100 (not available anymore 1996-97 era) for my studio recordings. Similar CAD would be the e300. The e100 is a bit thin, a bit harsh and a little dirty.

I did a lame headphone check with my Shure 87C and it sounded about the same. The Shure has just a bit more low mid warmth.

Can you guys give me a quick low down on your favorite male vocal mic from the list below?

Here are my choices:

All large diaphram condensors. Used for male tenor voice. Includes prices. Some include external shock mounts.

Rode NT2-$400, NT1000-$350, NT2000-$600

Neuman TLM 103MT-$1000, TLM 49-$1500

AKG C414 B-XLS or XLII both $1000

Audio-Technica AT4047-$600

Blue?

I don't understand dual-diaphram. Should I get a transformerless? What about FETs? Do I need a shock mount if the tripod stand sits on a rug covering concrete?

I'm looking for minimal coloration, fairly flat, warm and rich but clear and just a touch of presence.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Wayne
Re: Which mic? [message #104010 is a reply to message #104008] Thu, 27 August 2009 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
Messages: 1529
Registered: February 2009
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Hey Wayne - you might also want to take a look at Advanced Audio mics. Some pretty cool studios up here just rave about their C12-inspired mic (I was on a session that used several of those recently in different roles and they killed) and his CM47 is also getting seriously good reviews (this is what Tape Op Magazine and Lynn Fuston had to say).

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Which mic? [message #104013 is a reply to message #104008] Fri, 28 August 2009 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Thanks Kerry.

I checked out the reviews and listened to an audio sample of the Advanced Audio CM47 vs the Audio Technica AT4047 and I hear the lower freq warmth that I'm looking for. Attached is the audio sample (111K mp3).

However, I'd really like to stay away from tube mics. Anyone else ready to chime?

Thanks,
Wayne
Re: Which mic? [message #104014 is a reply to message #104013] Fri, 28 August 2009 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Registered: February 2009
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In case you missed it, they have a CM-47 FET version too, priced at $289 (!), but I don't know anything about it. I'll ask Paul Baker if he's tried it (he's just using Dave's mics now, his Neumanns seldom get out of their boxes nowadays). Although this is a totally different thing, Dave's CM-54 mics are excellent too. I've seen some new products he hasn't got up on the site yet, such as tube SDCs and a tube ribbon mic.

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
icon7.gif  Re: Which mic? [message #104015 is a reply to message #104014] Fri, 28 August 2009 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Drago[2] is currently offline  Jim Drago[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 102
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
I can't comment on any of the mics on your list, but I can tell you I love my Studio Projects C-1 on my voice. Don't know if you are looking outside of the list or not, but a good choice IMHO..By the way I don't know about their newer models I have both generations of the C-1

[Updated on: Fri, 28 August 2009 11:23]

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Re: Which mic? [message #104016 is a reply to message #104008] Fri, 28 August 2009 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Thanks Jim,

I was wondering about Studio Projects. I'd heard some buzz.

I just read a boat load of reviews on the C1. Found this.

3 attached mp3's.

akg414 - some low mid muddiness in this sample - reminds me of Paris before my benchmark DAC and BigBen clock.
u87 - excellent presence
spC1 - similar tone to u87 but with less presence, slightly less fullness

I'll take anymore comments. Thanks guys.

Wayne
  • Attachment: spC1.mp3
    (Size: 152.01KB, Downloaded 62 times)
  • Attachment: akg414.mp3
    (Size: 203.36KB, Downloaded 71 times)
  • Attachment: u87.mp3
    (Size: 227.20KB, Downloaded 78 times)
Re: Which mic? [message #104017 is a reply to message #104016] Fri, 28 August 2009 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Drago[2] is currently offline  Jim Drago[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 102
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
I want to add that SP customer service is outstanding. I purchased my second C-1 on EBAY not working- bad capsule- for 19.00. They fixed it for free.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 August 2009 13:01]

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Re: Which mic? [message #104019 is a reply to message #104008] Fri, 28 August 2009 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DJ is currently offline  DJ   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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I have used most of those mics. It's hard to say what a mic is going to do with a particular voice, in a particular room with a particular preamp, but if'n I had to just grab the one I thought would work best for male vox, it would be the 4047.
Re: Which mic? [message #104026 is a reply to message #104008] Sat, 29 August 2009 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Thanks DJ,

This is what I thought might happen. I'd receive a several responses and each would favor a different mic. This is good. I still have to pick but feel that each will hold it's own.

I believe that the mic's at Guitar Center are one of the things they don't demo out due to health reasons, but I'd like to trial each at home. I doubt it. But I'm gonna try. They don't have a mic room.

I'll take any other inputs too.

Wayne
Re: Which mic? [message #104027 is a reply to message #104026] Sat, 29 August 2009 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Registered: February 2009
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I always loved the TLM103 as a good "all - rounder".

Hmmm... is there a studio with an extensive mic locker in your area that you could book an hour in for a shootout? An hour or two of studio time would be a worthwhile price to pay, and you could listen to the examples at home. If you explain what you're doing, I'm certain there'd be folks who'd be more than happy to go well out of their way to help.


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Which mic? [message #104028 is a reply to message #104008] Sat, 29 August 2009 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Hi Kerry,

Thanks, an excellent idea for analysis. I'll check into booking a studio. I hadn't thought of bringing home the sample waves. Maybe a talking sentence and vocal arpeggio scales using a mouth blown guitar tuner for reference. Thanks, Wayne
Re: Which mic? [message #104029 is a reply to message #104028] Sun, 30 August 2009 00:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
Messages: 1529
Registered: February 2009
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Hey Wayne - you could also prepare a "no vox" mix of a section of a tune you do. Pick a song you know really well and tend to sing consistently; render it out without vocals, trim it down to say 30 sec (just enough preroll to hear your "in", and then enough for a couple of phrases), do a little fade in and fade out on it, dump it onto a thumb drive as a WAV and bring it to the studio with you. Dropping it into the DAW there will be quick, get relative levels once and there you are, ready to test in "real world" conditions, all they need to do between takes is rewind/swap mics/match levels.

And at the risk of telling you stuff you probably know already: unless your own studio at home is huge - you ain't buying a big room, so don't use theirs Very Happy - that will add a variable you don't need, track in a booth if that's more like your own work environment. Arrange to have as many mics set up in advance as possible, and make sure they have them all ready to repatch into the same chain. Get them to use a pre as much like yours as possible, or if you're happy with your own, just bring it (some mics don't seem to match particularly well with some pres). If you do include any tube mics (probably not a bad idea, at least for reference - you aren't buying a tube mic today, but who knows, maybe some day you'll be in the market, and then you'll have the clips) then make sure they have 'em plugged in and warmed up, not sitting cold in a box waiting for their turn!


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Sun, 30 August 2009 00:39]

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Re: Which mic? [message #104031 is a reply to message #104008] Sun, 30 August 2009 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Hi Kerry,

No problem.

I had considered a no vox song and conducting my test in the dry vocal booth with flat identical chains. I hadn't considered taking my pre. That's a real good idea.

My pre is the PreSonus Eureka. Not the top of the line gear but not bad either. I had picked this up a few years back after researching better than average budget pres. Many reviews stated that it was a good buy at $550 bucks.

And it did make my CAD e100 nicer. It's a multi-unit with simulated tube saturation (even harmonics), compressor and EQ. I run it almost flat on the EQ, a bit of input compression and about 50% saturation. It also has a impedance selector with 50,150,600,1500 and 2500 ohms and phantom. Varying the impedance can dramatically change the tone. I use 150 because the CAD is <= to 200 as most of the mics I listed are in the 200 range but a couple are 50.

I'll let you know when all is said and done. Thanks.
Wayne
Re: Which mic? [message #104251 is a reply to message #104031] Mon, 19 October 2009 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
Messages: 1529
Registered: February 2009
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Hey Wayne - I recently ordered a CM47 and it made me think of this thread. How'd you get on with your mic choice, and did you wind up shooting some out?

- K


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: Which mic? [message #104252 is a reply to message #104251] Mon, 19 October 2009 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
roginator is currently offline  roginator   CROATIA
Messages: 28
Registered: January 2006
Junior Member
whell i have many mics

BUT one is extra cheap ( compared to same level sounding mics) and extra sounding !!!

Rode classic I with replaced Capsule and new Mullard tube...

capsule KK67 ..originaly used in U67 can be bought over ebay fro cca 300 euro
and tube is cca 40 euro...

KK67 fits into classic like original rode capsule wich is KK67 Clone BUT not as close to sound of original

near my Akg c12a and U67, 87, SM 69, Gefells this is my top 3 MIC of all times Smile with large membrane!!!

just pointing a good way to AWESOME MIC!!!

Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 19 October 2009 14:45]

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Re: Which mic? [message #104254 is a reply to message #104252] Tue, 20 October 2009 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne is currently offline  Wayne   UNITED STATES
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Senior Member
Hi all,

I was able to test the TLM103, AKG C414, my CAD Equitek E-100 and a couple Blue's with the PreSonus Eureka (which is the pre I have) at GC. I ran it completely flat. They didn't carry the 4047 which I would have liked to test too. I ended up purchasing the Blue Dragonfly. It was a compromize between the two.

As a reference. The E-100 has a honk like the Yama's NS-10Ms do in comparison to, let's say, ie, Adams, Genelic monitors.

I was almost convinced that I was going with the 103 prior to my tests. And in hind sight I would have been OK. But the 103 seemed a tad too hissy on the highs and the 414 seemed too muddy in the low end. The Dragonfly is not completely tonaly nuetral but does capture my voice with relative accuracy and little coloration.

During my test the 103 had more presence but made me sound a bit processed, the 414 sounded too thick and washy. Since my objective was to capture my voice as clean and nuetral as possible I went with the Dragonfly.

The Dragonfly has just a bit less presence, a good amount of clarity on the highs without the sizzle and a round yet tight low end. With just the Paris plate reverb, noLimit and 2db in a couple areas during mixing, I can hear the change and the vox climbs on top.

Would I recommend it? Yes and No. Why? Because my tests convinced me that until you use your pre and your voice, you're not going to know which mike is best. I guess you guys already knew that.

Is it a good mic? Yes. At $800 bucks (including elastic shock mount) it's a contender.

Wayne
Re: Which mic? [message #104268 is a reply to message #104254] Wed, 28 October 2009 17:16 Go to previous message
RonA is currently offline  RonA   UNITED STATES
Messages: 27
Registered: September 2009
Location: Colorado
Junior Member
I have a very soft singing voice. With that as a given, I dig my AT 4047 going through an Aphex 1100 tube pre SPDIF into the MEC. Works well with my flute, too. I have no experience with the other mics. Just in case anyone is reading this thread and still searching for a good mic...

Ron





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