Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » LaMont was right...
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94493 is a reply to message #94491] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 14:38   |
![dc[3] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "dc[3] is currently offline")
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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I don't think RP is a raving KKK-type racist or seperatist.
I do think the newsletters show that he has some loony ideas like
defending secession, the old south, and attacking Lincoln
with the same "unjust war" rhetoric he uses against Iraq.
I doubt too many of the anti-Iraq war crowd want to
sign on for that.
To defend the south is to say that government has no
business trying to end slavery. Now just imagine what would have
happened to the south had slavery still been around in say 1915
or so.
1964?
The resulting war would have been even worse than the
Civil War and would have been indeed a race war.
The amorality of these people, in the name of small-government
is truly astonishing. If there is one thing government is FOR it
is protecting all of its citizens against the ruthless.
So, if RP isn't a kluxer, fine. But he did not stand against them
did he??
This may be the end of RP as a candidate.
DC
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Not that I only go off my impressions, but I will say that my impression
of
>RP is not one of a racist or neo-Nazi. My impression of Bush in 2000 was
an
>ignorant self-entitled trust-fund baby who lacked any real vision. Now,
I
>don't agree with a few of RP's positions, but I don't get the vibe he's
even
>remotely as dangerous as Bush has been.
>
>peace!,
>-Carl
>
>
>"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4783e5ba$1@linux...
>> You know you can't trust these neo-con publications Don.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4783d602$1@linux...
>>>
>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>
>>>
>>> This is not good...
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94494 is a reply to message #94490] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 14:59 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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It's not a bombshell if you've been following libertarian politics for any
length of time. I've been reading the Rockwell site for years, don't agree
with all of it, or even most of it, but there aren't many places and anti-empire
conservative can hang out these days.
And don't forget, this article even states that it doesn't appear that RP
wrote any of this, though obviously he needs to take the hit for having his
name on the publication. Second, The New Republic was once a respectable
middle left paper that has become a fiercely neo-con rag. It's right up there
with the Weekly Standard as a warmongering mouthpiece for Cheney's office.
They'd accuse RP of molesting boys if they thought it might stick, regardless
of the validity of the claim.
Mind you, I'm not endorsing RP, I happen to agree with him on a lot of foreign
policy issues, as I'm a traditional conservative.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>This article and those newsletters are a bombshell, despite
>the spin in the forum.
>
>DC
>
>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>Yeah - check the forum on that link - there are some interesting arguments
>
>>against it. BUT, this stuff will need to be tested at some level - we will
>
>>need to know more about these candidates.
>>
>>
>>"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4783e5ba$1@linux...
>>> You know you can't trust these neo-con publications Don.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4783d602$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is not good...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94495 is a reply to message #94494] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 15:11 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Frankly, the whole game of smearing the source means
nothing whatsover if he wrote, or was responsible for these
things. If the research holds up, it could have come from
anywhere and it makes no difference at all.
DC
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>It's not a bombshell if you've been following libertarian politics for any
>length of time. I've been reading the Rockwell site for years, don't agree
>with all of it, or even most of it, but there aren't many places and anti-empire
>conservative can hang out these days.
>
>And don't forget, this article even states that it doesn't appear that RP
>wrote any of this, though obviously he needs to take the hit for having
his
>name on the publication. Second, The New Republic was once a respectable
>middle left paper that has become a fiercely neo-con rag. It's right up
there
>with the Weekly Standard as a warmongering mouthpiece for Cheney's office.
>They'd accuse RP of molesting boys if they thought it might stick, regardless
>of the validity of the claim.
>
>Mind you, I'm not endorsing RP, I happen to agree with him on a lot of foreign
>policy issues, as I'm a traditional conservative.
>
>TCB
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>This article and those newsletters are a bombshell, despite
>>the spin in the forum.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>Yeah - check the forum on that link - there are some interesting arguments
>>
>>>against it. BUT, this stuff will need to be tested at some level - we
will
>>
>>>need to know more about these candidates.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4783e5ba$1@linux...
>>>> You know you can't trust these neo-con publications Don.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4783d602$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94496 is a reply to message #94486] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 15:12 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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This guy was on the news last night blasting Ron Paul, when they asked him
if he could prove that Ron Paul had said all these things he couldn't. He
went on from there to continue his hearsay hatchet job. It was vary venomous
with nothing much to back it up. Keep in mind, there are a lot of deep pockets
that would have a lot to lose if Ron Paul would get in to office. The Dems.
and the Reps. are the same thing, they are both in bed with the media and
big business etc. Don't forget they said Ross Perot was a nut, a kook etc.
Perot said if we signed NAFTA, let China in to the WTO, and didn't get rid
of the foreign lobbyist we'd hear a huge sucking sound, well we are hearing
it loud and clear here in Detroit and around the country. According to them,
anybody that wants to change the corrupt way washington is run is a nut.
If you believe in the constitution, if you believe that government should
be for WE THE PEOPLE and not the filthy rich monopolistic corporations and
foreign governments, if you believe in freedom, equal rights, etc. you might
want to think about voting for Ron Paul. At least go check out his web site
and read it for yourself. http://www.ronpaul2008.com
If you like being lied to, if you like being treated like a mushroom, kept
in the dark and fed bullshit, If you like the way this war has been managed,
if you like having your country in debt to communist China, if you want a
government that is bought and run by the dirtiest lobbyist with the most
money, if you like having more and more of you rights taken away, more and
more of your money taken away for things you don't believe in, if your Ok
with the status quo, just vote in your favorite Democrat or republican and
you'll get more of what you've been getting.
They're trying to do a hatchet job on Ron Paul by saying he is a kook and
a racest. It's a drive by, what's new?
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>
>
>This is not good...
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94498 is a reply to message #94493] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 15:21 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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I'm sure Ron Paul was not and is not for slavery. I think he feels that states
have the right to govern them selves and I believe that is what he was referring
to., but I can't speak for him. Since we on the subject, I guess Robert
Byrd is Ok, right?
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>I don't think RP is a raving KKK-type racist or seperatist.
>
>I do think the newsletters show that he has some loony ideas like
>defending secession, the old south, and attacking Lincoln
>with the same "unjust war" rhetoric he uses against Iraq.
>I doubt too many of the anti-Iraq war crowd want to
>sign on for that.
>
>To defend the south is to say that government has no
>business trying to end slavery. Now just imagine what would have
>happened to the south had slavery still been around in say 1915
>or so.
>
>1964?
>
>The resulting war would have been even worse than the
>Civil War and would have been indeed a race war.
>
>The amorality of these people, in the name of small-government
>is truly astonishing. If there is one thing government is FOR it
>is protecting all of its citizens against the ruthless.
>
>So, if RP isn't a kluxer, fine. But he did not stand against them
>did he??
>
>This may be the end of RP as a candidate.
>
>DC
>
>
>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>Not that I only go off my impressions, but I will say that my impression
>of
>>RP is not one of a racist or neo-Nazi. My impression of Bush in 2000 was
>an
>>ignorant self-entitled trust-fund baby who lacked any real vision. Now,
>I
>>don't agree with a few of RP's positions, but I don't get the vibe he's
>even
>>remotely as dangerous as Bush has been.
>>
>>peace!,
>>-Carl
>>
>>
>>"Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4783e5ba$1@linux...
>>> You know you can't trust these neo-con publications Don.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4783d602$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is not good...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94509 is a reply to message #94495] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 20:27 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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As well, the game of smearing Ron Paul is an obvious way to distract
from his direct claims about the corruption of currently powerful
corporate and government interests.
More smearing to come, no doubt. The game is clearly on.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
DC wrote:
> Frankly, the whole game of smearing the source means
> nothing whatsover if he wrote, or was responsible for these
> things. If the research holds up, it could have come from
> anywhere and it makes no difference at all.
>
> DC
>
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> It's not a bombshell if you've been following libertarian politics for any
>> length of time. I've been reading the Rockwell site for years, don't agree
>> with all of it, or even most of it, but there aren't many places and anti-empire
>> conservative can hang out these days.
>>
>> And don't forget, this article even states that it doesn't appear that RP
>> wrote any of this, though obviously he needs to take the hit for having
> his
>> name on the publication. Second, The New Republic was once a respectable
>> middle left paper that has become a fiercely neo-con rag. It's right up
> there
>> with the Weekly Standard as a warmongering mouthpiece for Cheney's office.
>> They'd accuse RP of molesting boys if they thought it might stick, regardless
>> of the validity of the claim.
>>
>> Mind you, I'm not endorsing RP, I happen to agree with him on a lot of foreign
>> policy issues, as I'm a traditional conservative.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>> This article and those newsletters are a bombshell, despite
>>> the spin in the forum.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Yeah - check the forum on that link - there are some interesting arguments
>>>> against it. BUT, this stuff will need to be tested at some level - we
> will
>>>> need to know more about these candidates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Deej" <noway@jose.org> wrote in message news:4783e5ba$1@linux...
>>>>> You know you can't trust these neo-con publications Don.
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:4783d602$1@linux...
>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>
>>>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94523 is a reply to message #94486] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 12:11 |
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Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by Russert,
he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about his
past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about the
Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore, he
is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>
>
>This is not good...
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94524 is a reply to message #94523] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 11:24 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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LaMont, I very much value your opinion. I still need more info about RP,
myself. There is one thing he has stated, I believe it's on his website
video isses, in which he's explaining his support for guns that, to me,
gives some merit to your view. He mentions that we wouldn't have as much
violence in inner-cities if we had *more* guns - you'll have to watch it for
a more direct quote in context. I found it strange. I also don't agree with
support for more guns.
peace!,
-Carl
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47851c76$1@linux...
>
> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by
> Russert,
> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about his
> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>
> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about the
> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore, he
> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>
>>
>>This is not good...
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94527 is a reply to message #94523] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 13:21 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
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The status quo liberals don't like him because they know he would cut out
government hand out programs, especially the ones based on race. So now
they are calling him a racist. It's a hatchet job.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
>of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by Russert,
>he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about his
>past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>
>He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about the
>Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
>back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore, he
>is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>
>>
>>This is not good...
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94528 is a reply to message #94527] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 13:45 |
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Yep..Nothing wrong with status quo prams that are meant to do good. But, he
is a racist.
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>The status quo liberals don't like him because they know he would cut out
>government hand out programs, especially the ones based on race. So now
>they are calling him a racist. It's a hatchet job.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
>>of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by
Russert,
>>he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about his
>>past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>
>>He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
the
>>Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
>>back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore, he
>>is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>
>>>
>>>This is not good...
>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94530 is a reply to message #94527] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 14:05 |
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James, even the term "Librals" is a coded word. The Republicans have demonize
that word into meaning (now Under the Bush admin) as un-Patriotic, un-American,
anybody who is a Democrat,gay, or Black.
These labels do nothing but continue to divide us as a nation. Terms like
Evangelicals,Conservatives..yada yada..Rediculous!
Come on now. It's 2008 for pete's sake!!
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>The status quo liberals don't like him because they know he would cut out
>government hand out programs, especially the ones based on race. So now
>they are calling him a racist. It's a hatchet job.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
>>of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by
Russert,
>>he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about his
>>past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>
>>He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
the
>>Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
>>back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore, he
>>is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>
>>>
>>>This is not good...
>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94532 is a reply to message #94523] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 14:40 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Lamont,
What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
words.
Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
I did not catch that.
What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
LaMont wrote:
> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by Russert,
> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about his
> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>
> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about the
> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore, he
> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>
>>
>> This is not good...
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94533 is a reply to message #94532] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 16:23 |
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Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on domestic
issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even supporting
those controversial views.
One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word for:
getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the so-called
war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
style politics..
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>Lamont,
>
>What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>words.
>
>Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>I did not catch that.
>
>What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>
>
>LaMont wrote:
>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by
Russert,
>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
his
>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>
>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
the
>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
he
>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>
>>>
>>> This is not good...
>>
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94534 is a reply to message #94533] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 15:58 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know RP's
views on race personally (and
neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views we
would all object to,
but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
politics" makes them racist
is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well be
because it is failing
to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution, but
keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
more
successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying to
change the education system from the inside out,
starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools across
the US have an average
of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level? That's
basic reading and math - 80%
are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but a
lower than realistic level.
I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
systems, not political parties.
Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
community leaders and parents
look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning. No, it's
a public problem that
"we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
responsibility on the students for just
not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't make
someone want to learn. To
the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program aims
to correct learning problems
that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates 20
years to work through the
red tape and establishment that is the current public school system. Doing
away with it just might
save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over 80,000
in a private school system
(can't get access to public schools....).
Regards,
Dedric
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>
> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on
> domestic
> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
> supporting
> those controversial views.
>
> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word
> for:
> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>
> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
> so-called
> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
> style politics..
> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>Lamont,
>>
>>What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>
>>words.
>>
>>Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>
>>I did not catch that.
>>
>>What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>>that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>
>>religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>>not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>
>>
>>LaMont wrote:
>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code
>>> word
>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by
> Russert,
>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
> his
>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>
>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
> the
>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>> America
>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
> he
>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is not good...
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94539 is a reply to message #94534] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 21:55 |
|
|
Dedric I could debate you on this for decades my friend. I'll only say this:
As product of an urban public school, I can say that there are many social
and economical factors that have caused the demised on the public school
system.
Since desegration and bussing, white-flight and it's money have done a lot
of damage.
I'll skip forward and say that the American School system as a whole is failing.
I live in a pretty afluent neighbor-hood, and it's school system is horible.
The pribate schools are not that much better.
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know RP's
>views on race personally (and
>neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views we
>would all object to,
>but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>politics" makes them racist
> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>
>His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well be
>because it is failing
>to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution, but
>keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>more
>successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>
>Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying to
>change the education system from the inside out,
>starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools across
>the US have an average
>of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level? That's
>basic reading and math - 80%
>are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but a
>lower than realistic level.
>I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>systems, not political parties.
>
>Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>community leaders and parents
>look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning. No, it's
>a public problem that
>"we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>responsibility on the students for just
>not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't make
>someone want to learn. To
>the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program aims
>to correct learning problems
>that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates 20
>years to work through the
>red tape and establishment that is the current public school system. Doing
>away with it just might
>save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over 80,000
>in a private school system
>(can't get access to public schools....).
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on
>> domestic
>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>> supporting
>> those controversial views.
>>
>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word
>> for:
>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>
>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>> so-called
>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
>> style politics..
>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>Lamont,
>>>
>>>What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>>
>>>words.
>>>
>>>Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>
>>>I did not catch that.
>>>
>>>What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>>>that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>>
>>>religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>>>not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>
>>>
>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code
>>>> word
>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
by
>> Russert,
>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
>> his
>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>
>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
>> the
>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>> America
>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>> he
>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94540 is a reply to message #94534] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 22:15 |
|
|
Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing ) the
US educational system. It's horrible.
My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year ) old
when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible. The
kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still students
in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President (Bush)
has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole major
funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student loan(sharks)
have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20 years)
made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology in the
name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening to
think about it.
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know RP's
>views on race personally (and
>neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views we
>would all object to,
>but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>politics" makes them racist
> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>
>His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well be
>because it is failing
>to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution, but
>keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>more
>successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>
>Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying to
>change the education system from the inside out,
>starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools across
>the US have an average
>of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level? That's
>basic reading and math - 80%
>are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but a
>lower than realistic level.
>I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>systems, not political parties.
>
>Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>community leaders and parents
>look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning. No, it's
>a public problem that
>"we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>responsibility on the students for just
>not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't make
>someone want to learn. To
>the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program aims
>to correct learning problems
>that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates 20
>years to work through the
>red tape and establishment that is the current public school system. Doing
>away with it just might
>save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over 80,000
>in a private school system
>(can't get access to public schools....).
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>
>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on
>> domestic
>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>> supporting
>> those controversial views.
>>
>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word
>> for:
>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>
>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>> so-called
>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
>> style politics..
>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>Lamont,
>>>
>>>What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>>
>>>words.
>>>
>>>Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>
>>>I did not catch that.
>>>
>>>What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>>>that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>>
>>>religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>>>not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>
>>>
>>>LaMont wrote:
>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code
>>>> word
>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
by
>> Russert,
>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
>> his
>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>
>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
>> the
>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>> America
>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>> he
>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94543 is a reply to message #94486] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 22:06 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many public
schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded systems).
For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy, or
program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality of
education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity and
sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will take
decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and for
pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private innovation is
drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a problem.
For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school (IB
program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level, problems
aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I attended
schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing) suburban and
urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to our 2
year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread at
earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more money at
the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level, which
transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in a given
community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or local
school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot one
another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and becomes a
part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities and
better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long. Schools
that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the history of
the school in your neighborhood.
If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes, it's
abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to be
managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already are.
I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and the
realities of what causes problems in society.
We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims rather
than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all heard
the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach
a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if he
doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll be
hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
considering stealing.
What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only what
we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what our
environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche for
the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority cause.
³No great man ever complains of want of opportunity.²
                                               Ralph Waldo Emerson
In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when they
started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it takes
determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or in our
society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the education
system - not just the Gates Foundation.
The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home, but if
people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities is the
most certain way to solve a problem.
PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your citizenship?
:-)
We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this week.
Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
allocation for OT this month. ;-))
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing ) the
> US educational system. It's horrible.
>
> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year ) old
> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible. The
> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>
> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still students
> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>
> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President (Bush)
> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole major
> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
> loan(sharks)
> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>
> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20 years)
> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology in the
> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening to
> think about it.
>
>
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know RP's
>
>> views on race personally (and
>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views we
>
>> would all object to,
>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>> politics" makes them racist
>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>
>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well be
>
>> because it is failing
>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution, but
>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>
>> more
>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>
>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying to
>
>> change the education system from the inside out,
>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools across
>
>> the US have an average
>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level? That's
>
>> basic reading and math - 80%
>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but a
>
>> lower than realistic level.
>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>> systems, not political parties.
>>
>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>
>> community leaders and parents
>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning. No, it's
>
>> a public problem that
>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>> responsibility on the students for just
>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't make
>
>> someone want to learn. To
>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program aims
>
>> to correct learning problems
>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates 20
>
>> years to work through the
>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system. Doing
>
>> away with it just might
>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over 80,000
>
>> in a private school system
>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on
>
>>> domestic
>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>> supporting
>>> those controversial views.
>>>
>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word
>
>>> for:
>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>
>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>>> so-called
>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
>>> style politics..
>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>> Lamont,
>>>>
>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>>>
>>>> words.
>>>>
>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>>
>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>
>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>>>
>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code
>
>>>>> word
>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
> by
>>> Russert,
>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
>>> his
>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>
>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
>>> the
>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>> America
>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>>> he
>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7d
>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94544 is a reply to message #94543] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 00:18 |
|
|
I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could and
needs to be reworked..
But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People, companys,farmers,this
country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you will.
If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a helphand,
and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take out
the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied (even
through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that he
can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then what??
I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do belive
that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some unbelievable
obstacales that would have made most quit..
Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education is
fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids are
out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads with
this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an major
-downside effect on American Teens..
I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka Blue
Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the poor.
Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many others,needed
that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many public
>schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded systems).
>
>For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy, or
>program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality of
>education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity and
>sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will
take
>decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and for
>pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private innovation
is
>drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a problem.
>
>For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school (IB
>program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level, problems
>aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I attended
>schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing) suburban
and
>urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to our
2
>year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
>people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
at
>earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more money
at
>the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level, which
>transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in a given
>community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or local
>school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
one
>another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and becomes
a
>part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
and
>better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long. Schools
>that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
>interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the history
of
>the school in your neighborhood.
>
>If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes, it's
>abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to be
>managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already are.
>I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and the
>realities of what causes problems in society.
>
>We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims rather
>than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all heard
>the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach
>a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if he
>doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
be
>hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>considering stealing.
>
>What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only what
>we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what our
>environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche for
>the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority cause.
>
>łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when they
>started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it takes
>determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or in
our
>society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the education
>system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>
>The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home, but
if
>people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities is
the
>most certain way to solve a problem.
>
>PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your citizenship?
>:-)
>
>We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this week.
>Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
) the
>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>
>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year )
old
>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible. The
>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>
>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still students
>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>
>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President (Bush)
>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
major
>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>> loan(sharks)
>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>
>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20
years)
>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology in
the
>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening
to
>> think about it.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know RP's
>>
>>> views on race personally (and
>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
we
>>
>>> would all object to,
>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>> politics" makes them racist
>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>
>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well
be
>>
>>> because it is failing
>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution, but
>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>>
>>> more
>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>
>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying
to
>>
>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools across
>>
>>> the US have an average
>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level? That's
>>
>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but
a
>>
>>> lower than realistic level.
>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>
>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>>
>>> community leaders and parents
>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning. No,
it's
>>
>>> a public problem that
>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't make
>>
>>> someone want to learn. To
>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
aims
>>
>>> to correct learning problems
>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
20
>>
>>> years to work through the
>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
Doing
>>
>>> away with it just might
>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over
80,000
>>
>>> in a private school system
>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on
>>
>>>> domestic
>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>> supporting
>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>
>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word
>>
>>>> for:
>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>
>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>>>> so-called
>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
>>>> style politics..
>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>>>>
>>>>> words.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>>>
>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>>>>
>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code
>>
>>>>>> word
>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
>> by
>>>> Russert,
>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
>>>> his
>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
>>>> the
>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>>> America
>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>>>> he
>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7d
>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94545 is a reply to message #94544] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 05:52 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and I
don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online (that
would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking about.
None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever. That's
shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping you
can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across. It's
hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
same way.
To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes of
changing a society. Monumental difference.
In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the effect
is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us are
guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do the
work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for it,
when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
guilty of that. Just a thought.
Regards,
Dedric
On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could and
> needs to be reworked..
>
> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
> companys,farmers,this
> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you will.
>
> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a helphand,
> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>
> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take out
> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied (even
> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>
> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that he
> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then what??
>
> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do belive
> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
> unbelievable
> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>
> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education is
> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids are
> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads with
> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an major
> -downside effect on American Teens..
>
> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka Blue
> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the poor.
> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
> others,needed
> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many public
>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded systems).
>>
>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy, or
>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality of
>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity and
>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will
> take
>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and for
>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private innovation
> is
>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a problem.
>>
>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school (IB
>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level, problems
>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I attended
>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing) suburban
> and
>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to our
> 2
>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
> at
>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more money
> at
>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level, which
>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in a given
>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or local
>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
> one
>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and becomes
> a
>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
> and
>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long. Schools
>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the history
> of
>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>
>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes, it's
>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to be
>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already are.
>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and the
>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>
>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims rather
>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all heard
>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach
>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if he
>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
> be
>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>> considering stealing.
>>
>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only what
>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what our
>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche for
>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority cause.
>>
>> ³No great man ever complains of want of opportunity.²
>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>
>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when they
>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it takes
>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or in
> our
>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the education
>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>
>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home, but
> if
>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities is
> the
>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>
>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your citizenship?
>> :-)
>>
>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this week.
>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
> ) the
>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>
>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year )
> old
>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible. The
>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>
>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still students
>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>
>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President (Bush)
>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
> major
>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>> loan(sharks)
>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>
>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20
> years)
>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology in
> the
>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening
> to
>>> think about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know RP's
>>>
>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
> we
>>>
>>>> would all object to,
>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>
>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well
> be
>>>
>>>> because it is failing
>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution, but
>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>>>
>>>> more
>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>
>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying
> to
>>>
>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools across
>>>
>>>> the US have an average
>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level? That's
>>>
>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but
> a
>>>
>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>
>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>>>
>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning. No,
> it's
>>>
>>>> a public problem that
>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't make
>>>
>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
> aims
>>>
>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
> 20
>>>
>>>> years to work through the
>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
> Doing
>>>
>>>> away with it just might
>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over
> 80,000
>>>
>>>> in a private school system
>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on
>>>
>>>>> domestic
>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>> supporting
>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>
>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word
>>>
>>>>> for:
>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>
>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>>>>> so-called
>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
>>>>> style politics..
>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>>>>>
>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>>>>>
>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code
>>>
>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
>>> by
>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
>>>>> his
>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>>>>> he
>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94546 is a reply to message #94545] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 08:03 |
|
|
Good Morning,
I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a fact
from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our cultural
upbringing.
I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose how
to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
to someone who is?
Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the economy"..Oh
Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure.. Should
we not help them?
You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor folks
arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and richer.
And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it on..
It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing less.
Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's fight".
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
>at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
I
>don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online (that
>would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
>man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking about.
>None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever. That's
>shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping you
>can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across. It's
>hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>same way.
>
>To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
>the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
of
>changing a society. Monumental difference.
>
>In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
>what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the effect
>is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
are
>guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do the
>work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
it,
>when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>guilty of that. Just a thought.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
and
>> needs to be reworked..
>>
>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>> companys,farmers,this
>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
will.
>>
>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a helphand,
>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>
>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
out
>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied
(even
>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>
>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
he
>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
what??
>>
>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do belive
>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>> unbelievable
>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>
>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education
is
>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
are
>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads
with
>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
major
>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>
>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka Blue
>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
poor.
>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>> others,needed
>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
public
>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded systems).
>>>
>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
or
>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality of
>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity and
>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will
>> take
>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
for
>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private innovation
>> is
>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a problem.
>>>
>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
(IB
>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level, problems
>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I attended
>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing) suburban
>> and
>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
our
>> 2
>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
>> at
>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more money
>> at
>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
which
>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
a given
>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or local
>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
>> one
>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and becomes
>> a
>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
>> and
>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long. Schools
>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the history
>> of
>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>
>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes,
it's
>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to be
>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
are.
>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
the
>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>
>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims rather
>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
heard
>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Teach
>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if
he
>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
>> be
>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>> considering stealing.
>>>
>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only
what
>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what
our
>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche
for
>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
cause.
>>>
>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>
>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when they
>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it
takes
>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or
in
>> our
>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the education
>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>
>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
but
>> if
>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
is
>> the
>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>
>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your citizenship?
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this
week.
>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
>> ) the
>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>
>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
)
>> old
>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
The
>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>
>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
students
>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
(Bush)
>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
>> major
>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>
>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20
>> years)
>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
in
>> the
>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening
>> to
>>>> think about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
RP's
>>>>
>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
>> we
>>>>
>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>
>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well
>> be
>>>>
>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
but
>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>>>>
>>>>> more
>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>
>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying
>> to
>>>>
>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
across
>>>>
>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
That's
>>>>
>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but
>> a
>>>>
>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>>>>
>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
No,
>> it's
>>>>
>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
make
>>>>
>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
>> aims
>>>>
>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
>> 20
>>>>
>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
>> Doing
>>>>
>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over
>> 80,000
>>>>
>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
on
>>>>
>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
word
>>>>
>>>>>> for:
>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
Texas
>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
those
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
with
>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
racial,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or
may
>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
code
>>>>
>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
>>>> by
>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
about
>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
about
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94547 is a reply to message #94533] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 07:37 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Lamont, There are tens of thousands of public schools and only a
small number of them are in "inner cities" (isn't that a code word for
depressed racial minority areas?). Even supposing Ron Paul is talking
about inner city schools (which I don't believe he is), do you think the
inner city schools are doing a super wonderful job? For that matter do
you think inner city life is so fantastic we should press on with the
highly successful status quo?
Personally the last time I was in the South Bronx or Watts or even parts
of St Petersburg Florida, I didn't want to move there. Could it be that
the "solutions" have not worked? Eventually every solution can become a
problem if relied on too long. Maybe a real change that suits the
current conditions is needed, not just more of the same.
From my experience any solution that tried to address a mass of people
at once will fail because everybody is unique. Change is made by
treating every person as an individual and helping them to improve their
life, to reach their dreams and to build their own unique future.
Attempts to help whole groups end up specializing in problems,
especially old problems. When you specialize in problems, you only get
more of them and you get people experiencing the same old problems over
and over again.
When you specialize in creating the future you get an intentionally
created future and it can be new and brilliant and a lot of fun to be in.
LaMont wrote:
> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views on domestic
> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even supporting
> those controversial views.
>
> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code word for:
> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>
> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the so-called
> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old Texas
> style politics..
> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>> Lamont,
>>
>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know those
>
>> words.
>>
>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>
>> I did not catch that.
>>
>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree with
>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be racial,
>
>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or may
>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>
>>
>> LaMont wrote:
>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the code word
>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews by
> Russert,
>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on about
> his
>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>
>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things about
> the
>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take America
>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
> he
>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a7da84ca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is not good...
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94548 is a reply to message #94546] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 07:47 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Here is a very interesting link to a story about a guy who is doing
something cool in our troubled urban areas:
http://susanstroh.com/hello_Somebody.html
I know Reverend Johnson and he is an awesome guy. check it out.
LaMont wrote:
> Good Morning,
>
> I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a fact
> from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our cultural
> upbringing.
>
> I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
> not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose how
> to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
> turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
> to someone who is?
>
> Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the economy"..Oh
> Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure.. Should
> we not help them?
>
> You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor folks
> arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and richer.
> And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it on..
>
> It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing less.
> Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>
> Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's fight".
>
>
>
>
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>> prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
>> at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
> I
>> don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online (that
>> would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>> someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
>> man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking about.
>> None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever. That's
>> shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>> observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping you
>> can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across. It's
>> hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>> same way.
>>
>> To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
>> the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
> of
>> changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>
>> In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>> community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
>> what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the effect
>> is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>> personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
> are
>> guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do the
>> work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
> it,
>> when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>> guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
> and
>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>
>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>> companys,farmers,this
>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
> will.
>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a helphand,
>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>
>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
> out
>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied
> (even
>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>
>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
> he
>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
> what??
>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do belive
>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>>> unbelievable
>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>
>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education
> is
>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
> are
>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads
> with
>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
> major
>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>
>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka Blue
>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
> poor.
>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>> others,needed
>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
> public
>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded systems).
>>>>
>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
> or
>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality of
>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity and
>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will
>>> take
>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
> for
>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private innovation
>>> is
>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a problem.
>>>>
>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
> (IB
>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level, problems
>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I attended
>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing) suburban
>>> and
>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
> our
>>> 2
>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
>>> at
>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more money
>>> at
>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
> which
>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
> a given
>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or local
>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
>>> one
>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and becomes
>>> a
>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
>>> and
>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long. Schools
>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the history
>>> of
>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>
>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes,
> it's
>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to be
>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
> are.
>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
> the
>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>
>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims rather
>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
> heard
>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
> Teach
>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if
> he
>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
>>> be
>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>
>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only
> what
>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what
> our
>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche
> for
>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
> cause.
>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>
>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when they
>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it
> takes
>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or
> in
>>> our
>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the education
>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>
>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
> but
>>> if
>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
> is
>>> the
>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>
>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your citizenship?
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this
> week.
>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
>>> ) the
>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>
>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
> )
>>> old
>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
> The
>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
> students
>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
> (Bush)
>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
>>> major
>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>
>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20
>>> years)
>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
> in
>>> the
>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening
>>> to
>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
> RP's
>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
>>> we
>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well
>>> be
>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
> but
>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying
>>> to
>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
> across
>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
> That's
>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but
>>> a
>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
> No,
>>> it's
>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
> make
>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
>>> aims
>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
>>> 20
>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
>>> Doing
>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over
>>> 80,000
>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
> on
>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
> word
>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
> Texas
>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
> those
>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
> with
>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
> racial,
>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or
> may
>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
> code
>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
> about
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
> about
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94549 is a reply to message #94546] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 07:50 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
So are you poor or just looking for sympathy at someone else's expense?
Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what it sounds like. To paraphrase your
admonishment,
if you aren't poor, then you have no right to fight a poor man's fight.
You are also still
making "your types" generalizations, and I don't appreciate it. You don't
know what you
are talking about and again, no offense, but you are using race as a crutch,
and I find that offensive.
I personally know people who've seen more hard times and challenges than you
could imagine,
and I know for certain they would be insulted by your approach and attitude
to what one needs to do personally to
succeed in this country or any other, regardless of race. I'm not going to
state their race because imho, their race isn't important - who they are and
what they've accomplished in life is (no, these aren't millionaires - just
people who've refused
to use race as an excuse).
1 - we were talking about education, not welfare, health care or feeding the
poor. Handouts don't make people want to become more educated, and lack of
handouts don't prevent people from going to the public library, doing their
homework, or listening in class. Granted not all schools have great
teachers, but all schools have students that don't try. Sorry, but you
won't get any sympathy by claiming that the "pull yourself up" mentality is
wrong and a "white man's" point of view. See my previous paragraph for the
reasons why.
2 - you said: "But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work
". People, companys,farmers,this
country needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
will."
Therein lies the problem - "have expected handouts". Any program that gives
handouts on a regular basis
with no effective method of turning that handout into a basis for an
individual to work on their own just creates a dependancy
rather than true effective change. Like I said, helping each other is one
of the best things we can do
with our time and resources, but creating dependancy on handouts is
dangerous. We all need help from time to
time, and as a society I agree - the balance of wealth is dangerously skewed
in many areas: artist, entertainers, and sports stars
are at the top of my list, yet that's one area most people are happy to
spend money on without a second thought of that imbalance, regardless of
their economic capabilities. No need to talk about corporate greed - we're
on the same
page there, but I think your view that "Those Billionairs love to keep us
scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save.." is
about is victim minded as I've heard.
Really Lamont, if you feel that oppressed by corporate America, just buy
Japanese and Chinese. ;-) It's easier
than buying American. ;-)) Hope you see the sad humor in that given you are
from the Detroit area - the home
of companies that have for years resisted alternative fuels, more efficient
and enduring engines, supporting the one
industry that has more wealth than our country, and holds the whole world by
the cohones - oil.
Oh.... 3 - you actually don't know what my race is, so aren't you just
reading my post, point of view,
and judging my race based on your own perception of stereotypes? How much
more racist could one possibly be?
Imho the place to stop racism is by individually ceasing to judge people's
potential based on skin color, and judging their
skin color based on their point of view. The rest will follow. Don't judge
just because you think it makes your argument
stronger. Quite the opposite.
Regards,
Dedric
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:478633ad@linux...
>
> Good Morning,
>
> I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a fact
> from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our
> cultural
> upbringing.
>
> I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
> not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose how
> to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
> turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
> to someone who is?
>
> Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the
> economy"..Oh
> Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure..
> Should
> we not help them?
>
> You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor folks
> arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and
> richer.
> And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it
> on..
>
> It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing
> less.
> Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>
> Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's
> fight".
>
>
>
>
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>>prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
>>at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
> I
>>don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online
>>(that
>>would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>>someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
>>man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking
>>about.
>>None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever.
>>That's
>>shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>>observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping you
>>can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across. It's
>>hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>>same way.
>>
>>To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
>>the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
> of
>>changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>
>>In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>>community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
>>what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the
>>effect
>>is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>>personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
> are
>>guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do the
>>work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
> it,
>>when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>>guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont"
>><jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
> and
>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>
>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>> companys,farmers,this
>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
> will.
>>>
>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a
>>> helphand,
>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>
>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
> out
>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied
> (even
>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>
>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
> he
>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
> what??
>>>
>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do
>>> belive
>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>>> unbelievable
>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>
>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education
> is
>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
> are
>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads
> with
>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
> major
>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>
>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka
>>> Blue
>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
> poor.
>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>> others,needed
>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
> public
>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded
>>>> systems).
>>>>
>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
> or
>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality of
>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity and
>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will
>>> take
>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
> for
>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private
>>>> innovation
>>> is
>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
> (IB
>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level,
>>>> problems
>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I
>>>> attended
>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing)
>>>> suburban
>>> and
>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
> our
>>> 2
>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
>>> at
>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more
>>>> money
>>> at
>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
> which
>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
> a given
>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or
>>>> local
>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
>>> one
>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and
>>>> becomes
>>> a
>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
>>> and
>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long.
>>>> Schools
>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the
>>>> history
>>> of
>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>
>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes,
> it's
>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to be
>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
> are.
>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
> the
>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>
>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims
>>>> rather
>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
> heard
>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
> Teach
>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if
> he
>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
>>> be
>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>
>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only
> what
>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what
> our
>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche
> for
>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
> cause.
>>>>
>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>
>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when
>>>> they
>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it
> takes
>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or
> in
>>> our
>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the
>>>> education
>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>
>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
> but
>>> if
>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
> is
>>> the
>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>
>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your
>>>> citizenship?
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this
> week.
>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
>>> ) the
>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>
>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
> )
>>> old
>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
> The
>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the
>>>>> teachers.
>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this
>>>>> community,
>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
> students
>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
> (Bush)
>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
>>> major
>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>
>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last 20
>>> years)
>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
> in
>>> the
>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's
>>>>> saddening
>>> to
>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
> RP's
>>>>>
>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
>>> we
>>>>>
>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well
>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
> but
>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are
>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company)
>>>>>> trying
>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
> across
>>>>>
>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
> That's
>>>>>
>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level, but
>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad the
>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless
>>>>>> teachers,
>>>>>
>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
> No,
>>> it's
>>>>>
>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
> make
>>>>>
>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
>>> aims
>>>>>
>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
>>> 20
>>>>>
>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
>>> Doing
>>>>>
>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over
>>> 80,000
>>>>>
>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When
>>>>>>> questioned
>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
> word
>>>>>
>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and the
>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
> Texas
>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
> those
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race
>>>>>>>> relations?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
> with
>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
> racial,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or
> may
>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
> code
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When
>>>>>>>>> interviews
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
> about
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
> about
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore,
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94551 is a reply to message #94549] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 10:36 |
|
|
Let me just state, I totally disagree with you points..All Of them.
That's why we have a divided nation..
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>So are you poor or just looking for sympathy at someone else's expense?
>Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what it sounds like. To paraphrase your
>admonishment,
>if you aren't poor, then you have no right to fight a poor man's fight.
>You are also still
>making "your types" generalizations, and I don't appreciate it. You don't
>know what you
>are talking about and again, no offense, but you are using race as a crutch,
>and I find that offensive.
>
>I personally know people who've seen more hard times and challenges than
you
>could imagine,
>and I know for certain they would be insulted by your approach and attitude
>to what one needs to do personally to
> succeed in this country or any other, regardless of race. I'm not going
to
>state their race because imho, their race isn't important - who they are
and
>what they've accomplished in life is (no, these aren't millionaires - just
>people who've refused
>to use race as an excuse).
>
>1 - we were talking about education, not welfare, health care or feeding
the
>poor. Handouts don't make people want to become more educated, and lack
of
>handouts don't prevent people from going to the public library, doing their
>homework, or listening in class. Granted not all schools have great
>teachers, but all schools have students that don't try. Sorry, but you
>won't get any sympathy by claiming that the "pull yourself up" mentality
is
>wrong and a "white man's" point of view. See my previous paragraph for
the
>reasons why.
>
>2 - you said: "But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work
>". People, companys,farmers,this
> country needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>will."
>
>Therein lies the problem - "have expected handouts". Any program that gives
>handouts on a regular basis
>with no effective method of turning that handout into a basis for an
>individual to work on their own just creates a dependancy
>rather than true effective change. Like I said, helping each other is one
>of the best things we can do
>with our time and resources, but creating dependancy on handouts is
>dangerous. We all need help from time to
>time, and as a society I agree - the balance of wealth is dangerously skewed
>in many areas: artist, entertainers, and sports stars
>are at the top of my list, yet that's one area most people are happy to
>spend money on without a second thought of that imbalance, regardless of
>their economic capabilities. No need to talk about corporate greed - we're
>on the same
>page there, but I think your view that "Those Billionairs love to keep us
>scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save.."
is
>about is victim minded as I've heard.
>Really Lamont, if you feel that oppressed by corporate America, just buy
>Japanese and Chinese. ;-) It's easier
>than buying American. ;-)) Hope you see the sad humor in that given you
are
>from the Detroit area - the home
>of companies that have for years resisted alternative fuels, more efficient
>and enduring engines, supporting the one
>industry that has more wealth than our country, and holds the whole world
by
>the cohones - oil.
>
>Oh.... 3 - you actually don't know what my race is, so aren't you just
>reading my post, point of view,
>and judging my race based on your own perception of stereotypes? How much
>more racist could one possibly be?
>Imho the place to stop racism is by individually ceasing to judge people's
>potential based on skin color, and judging their
>skin color based on their point of view. The rest will follow. Don't judge
>just because you think it makes your argument
>stronger. Quite the opposite.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:478633ad@linux...
>>
>> Good Morning,
>>
>> I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a
fact
>> from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our
>> cultural
>> upbringing.
>>
>> I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
>> not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose
how
>> to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
>> turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
>> to someone who is?
>>
>> Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the
>> economy"..Oh
>> Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure..
>> Should
>> we not help them?
>>
>> You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor folks
>> arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and
>> richer.
>> And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it
>> on..
>>
>> It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing
>> less.
>> Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>>
>> Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's
>> fight".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>>>prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
>>>at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
>> I
>>>don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online
>>>(that
>>>would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>>>someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
>>>man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking
>>>about.
>>>None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever.
>>>That's
>>>shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>>>observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping
you
>>>can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across.
It's
>>>hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>>>same way.
>>>
>>>To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
>>>the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
>> of
>>>changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>>
>>>In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>>>community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
>>>what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the
>>>effect
>>>is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>>>personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
>> are
>>>guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do
the
>>>work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
>> it,
>>>when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>>>guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dedric
>>>
>>>On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>><jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
>> and
>>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>>
>>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>>> companys,farmers,this
>>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>> will.
>>>>
>>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
>>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a
>>>> helphand,
>>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>>
>>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
>> out
>>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied
>> (even
>>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>>
>>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
>> he
>>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
>> what??
>>>>
>>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do
>>>> belive
>>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>>>> unbelievable
>>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>>
>>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education
>> is
>>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
>> are
>>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads
>> with
>>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
>> major
>>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>>
>>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka
>>>> Blue
>>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
>> poor.
>>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>>> others,needed
>>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
>> public
>>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded
>>>>> systems).
>>>>>
>>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
>> or
>>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality
of
>>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity
and
>>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it
will
>>>> take
>>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
>> for
>>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private
>>>>> innovation
>>>> is
>>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
>> (IB
>>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level,
>>>>> problems
>>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I
>>>>> attended
>>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing)
>>>>> suburban
>>>> and
>>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
>> our
>>>> 2
>>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago,
and
>>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
>>>> at
>>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more
>>>>> money
>>>> at
>>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
>> which
>>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
>> a given
>>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or
>>>>> local
>>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
>>>> one
>>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and
>>>>> becomes
>>>> a
>>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
>>>> and
>>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long.
>>>>> Schools
>>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might
be
>>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the
>>>>> history
>>>> of
>>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes,
>> it's
>>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to
be
>>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
>> are.
>>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
>> the
>>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims
>>>>> rather
>>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
>> heard
>>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
>> Teach
>>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But
if
>> he
>>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
>>>> be
>>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only
>> what
>>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what
>> our
>>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche
>> for
>>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
>> cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>>
>>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when
>>>>> they
>>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful -
it
>> takes
>>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home
or
>> in
>>>> our
>>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the
>>>>> education
>>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
>> but
>>>> if
>>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
>> is
>>>> the
>>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your
>>>>> citizenship?
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this
>> week.
>>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
>>>> ) the
>>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
>> )
>>>> old
>>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
>> The
>>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the
>>>>>> teachers.
>>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this
>>>>>> community,
>>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
>> students
>>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
>> (Bush)
>>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
>>>> major
>>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last
20
>>>> years)
>>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
>> in
>>>> the
>>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's
>>>>>> saddening
>>>> to
>>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
>> RP's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
>>>> we
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may
well
>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
>> but
>>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company)
>>>>>>> trying
>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
>> across
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
>> That's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level,
but
>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad
the
>>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless
>>>>>>> teachers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
>> No,
>>>> it's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
>> make
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
>>>> aims
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
>>>> 20
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
>>>> Doing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with
over
>>>> 80,000
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When
>>>>>>>> questioned
>>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
>> word
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and
the
>>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
>> Texas
>>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
>> those
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race
>>>>>>>>> relations?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
>> with
>>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
>> racial,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may
or
>> may
>>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
>> code
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When
>>>>>>>>>> interviews
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
>> about
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
>> about
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to
take
>>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>> Therefore,
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94552 is a reply to message #94551] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 09:58 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'll bet that if we got you two (LaMont and Dedric) in a room together,
you would quickly find some common ground. Sometimes a text forum isn't
the best form of communication...
Hey LaMont, on the off chance you could come on out to Colorado this
Friday, we're having a little PARIS get-together that Deej inspired (but
Deej can't come after all - we'll miss you Deej!).
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
LaM0nt wrote:
> Let me just state, I totally disagree with you points..All Of them.
>
> That's why we have a divided nation..
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>> So are you poor or just looking for sympathy at someone else's expense?
>> Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what it sounds like. To paraphrase your
>
>> admonishment,
>> if you aren't poor, then you have no right to fight a poor man's fight.
>
>> You are also still
>> making "your types" generalizations, and I don't appreciate it. You don't
>
>> know what you
>> are talking about and again, no offense, but you are using race as a crutch,
>
>> and I find that offensive.
>>
>> I personally know people who've seen more hard times and challenges than
> you
>> could imagine,
>> and I know for certain they would be insulted by your approach and attitude
>
>> to what one needs to do personally to
>> succeed in this country or any other, regardless of race. I'm not going
> to
>> state their race because imho, their race isn't important - who they are
> and
>> what they've accomplished in life is (no, these aren't millionaires - just
>
>> people who've refused
>> to use race as an excuse).
>>
>> 1 - we were talking about education, not welfare, health care or feeding
> the
>> poor. Handouts don't make people want to become more educated, and lack
> of
>> handouts don't prevent people from going to the public library, doing their
>
>> homework, or listening in class. Granted not all schools have great
>> teachers, but all schools have students that don't try. Sorry, but you
>
>> won't get any sympathy by claiming that the "pull yourself up" mentality
> is
>> wrong and a "white man's" point of view. See my previous paragraph for
> the
>> reasons why.
>>
>> 2 - you said: "But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work
>
>> ". People, companys,farmers,this
>> country needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>
>> will."
>>
>> Therein lies the problem - "have expected handouts". Any program that gives
>
>> handouts on a regular basis
>> with no effective method of turning that handout into a basis for an
>> individual to work on their own just creates a dependancy
>> rather than true effective change. Like I said, helping each other is one
>
>> of the best things we can do
>> with our time and resources, but creating dependancy on handouts is
>> dangerous. We all need help from time to
>> time, and as a society I agree - the balance of wealth is dangerously skewed
>
>> in many areas: artist, entertainers, and sports stars
>> are at the top of my list, yet that's one area most people are happy to
>
>> spend money on without a second thought of that imbalance, regardless of
>
>> their economic capabilities. No need to talk about corporate greed - we're
>
>> on the same
>> page there, but I think your view that "Those Billionairs love to keep us
>
>> scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save.."
> is
>> about is victim minded as I've heard.
>> Really Lamont, if you feel that oppressed by corporate America, just buy
>
>> Japanese and Chinese. ;-) It's easier
>> than buying American. ;-)) Hope you see the sad humor in that given you
> are
>>from the Detroit area - the home
>> of companies that have for years resisted alternative fuels, more efficient
>
>> and enduring engines, supporting the one
>> industry that has more wealth than our country, and holds the whole world
> by
>> the cohones - oil.
>>
>> Oh.... 3 - you actually don't know what my race is, so aren't you just
>> reading my post, point of view,
>> and judging my race based on your own perception of stereotypes? How much
>
>> more racist could one possibly be?
>> Imho the place to stop racism is by individually ceasing to judge people's
>
>> potential based on skin color, and judging their
>> skin color based on their point of view. The rest will follow. Don't judge
>
>> just because you think it makes your argument
>> stronger. Quite the opposite.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dedric
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:478633ad@linux...
>>> Good Morning,
>>>
>>> I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a
> fact
>>> from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our
>
>>> cultural
>>> upbringing.
>>>
>>> I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
>>> not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose
> how
>>> to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
>>> turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
>>> to someone who is?
>>>
>>> Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the
>>> economy"..Oh
>>> Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure..
>
>>> Should
>>> we not help them?
>>>
>>> You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor folks
>>> arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and
>
>>> richer.
>>> And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it
>
>>> on..
>>>
>>> It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing
>
>>> less.
>>> Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
>>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>>>
>>> Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's
>>> fight".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>>>> prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
>>>> at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
>>> I
>>>> don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online
>
>>>> (that
>>>> would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>>>> someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
>>>> man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking
>>>> about.
>>>> None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever.
>>>> That's
>>>> shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>>>> observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping
> you
>>>> can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across.
> It's
>>>> hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>>>> same way.
>>>>
>>>> To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
>>>> the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
>>> of
>>>> changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>>>
>>>> In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>>>> community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
>>>> what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the
>>>> effect
>>>> is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>>>> personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
>>> are
>>>> guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do
> the
>>>> work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
>>> it,
>>>> when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>>>> guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
>>> and
>>>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>>>
>>>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>>>> companys,farmers,this
>>>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>>> will.
>>>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
>>>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a
>
>>>>> helphand,
>>>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>>>
>>>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
>>> out
>>>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied
>>> (even
>>>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
>>> he
>>>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
>>> what??
>>>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do
>
>>>>> belive
>>>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>>>>> unbelievable
>>>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education
>>> is
>>>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
>>> are
>>>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads
>>> with
>>>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
>>> major
>>>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka
>
>>>>> Blue
>>>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
>>> poor.
>>>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>>>> others,needed
>>>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
>>> public
>>>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded
>>>>>> systems).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>>>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
>>> or
>>>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality
> of
>>>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity
> and
>>>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it
> will
>>>>> take
>>>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
>>> for
>>>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private
>>>>>> innovation
>>>>> is
>>>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a
>
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
>>> (IB
>>>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level,
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I
>>>>>> attended
>>>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing)
>>>>>> suburban
>>>>> and
>>>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
>>> our
>>>>> 2
>>>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago,
> and
>>>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
>>>>> at
>>>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more
>
>>>>>> money
>>>>> at
>>>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
>>> which
>>>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
>>> a given
>>>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or
>
>>>>>> local
>>>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
>>>>> one
>>>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and
>>>>>> becomes
>>>>> a
>>>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
>>>>> and
>>>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long.
>>>>>> Schools
>>>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might
> be
>>>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the
>>>>>> history
>>>>> of
>>>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes,
>>> it's
>>>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to
> be
>>>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
>>> are.
>>>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
>>> the
>>>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims
>
>>>>>> rather
>>>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
>>> heard
>>>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
>>> Teach
>>>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But
> if
>>> he
>>>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
>>>>> be
>>>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only
>>> what
>>>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what
>>> our
>>>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche
>>> for
>>>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
>>> cause.
>>>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when
>
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful -
> it
>>> takes
>>>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home
> or
>>> in
>>>>> our
>>>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the
>>>>>> education
>>>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
>>> but
>>>>> if
>>>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>>>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
>>> is
>>>>> the
>>>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your
>>>>>> citizenship?
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this
>>> week.
>>>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
>>>>> ) the
>>>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
>>> )
>>>>> old
>>>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
>>> The
>>>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the
>>>>>>> teachers.
>>>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this
>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
>>> students
>>>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
>>> (Bush)
>>>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
>>>>> major
>>>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last
> 20
>>>>> years)
>>>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
>>> in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's
>>>>>>> saddening
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
>>> RP's
>>>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may
> well
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
>>> but
>>>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are
>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company)
>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
>>> across
>>>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
>>> That's
>>>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level,
> but
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad
> the
>>>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless
>>>>>>>> teachers,
>>>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
>>> No,
>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
>>> make
>>>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
>>>>> aims
>>>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
>>>>> 20
>>>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
>>>>> Doing
>>>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with
> over
>>>>> 80,000
>>>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
>>> on
>>>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When
>>>>>>>>> questioned
>>>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
>>> word
>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and
> the
>>>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
>>> Texas
>>>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
>>> those
>>>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race
>>>>>>>>>> relations?
>>>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
>>> racial,
>>>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may
> or
>>> may
>>>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When
>>>>>>>>>>> interviews
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
>>> about
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
>>> about
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to
> take
>>>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore,
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94553 is a reply to message #94551] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 10:06 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Wow. You even disagree that you don't know my race? You disagree that we
agree about the problems
with corporate greed? that education needs improvement? You did say *all*
of my points....
No, Lamont, we don't have a divided nation. We have a nation increasingly
filled with people (of all races) unwilling
to take responsibility for improving it by working together, putting
differences aside, not waiting for someone else
to do it for them (McDonalds' syndrome); People not willing to look past
their own baggage, prejudices, and perception of "the man", regardless of
cultural background, to seek a positive solution; People not willing to
recognize ill-placed pride and instead carry an attitude that it's always
someone else's fault - "sue whoever hurts you or makes your coffee too hot",
"blame whoever you disagree with", and if all else fails, blame the
government, all the time talking about equality, freedom to choose, and
empowering individuality. Pretty contradictory imho.
"And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it
on.."
Before you go accusing others of "blaming others", take a look at your own
words my friend.
Let this cool down. We aren't enemies, but it saddens me that too many
discussions seem to head down this
road here. You are right, we will never be of like-mind until you are
willing to see us as more alike than different.
"LaM0nt" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47865796$1@linux...
>
> Let me just state, I totally disagree with you points..All Of them.
>
> That's why we have a divided nation..
>
> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>So are you poor or just looking for sympathy at someone else's expense?
>>Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what it sounds like. To paraphrase your
>
>>admonishment,
>>if you aren't poor, then you have no right to fight a poor man's fight.
>
>>You are also still
>>making "your types" generalizations, and I don't appreciate it. You don't
>
>>know what you
>>are talking about and again, no offense, but you are using race as a
>>crutch,
>
>>and I find that offensive.
>>
>>I personally know people who've seen more hard times and challenges than
> you
>>could imagine,
>>and I know for certain they would be insulted by your approach and
>>attitude
>
>>to what one needs to do personally to
>> succeed in this country or any other, regardless of race. I'm not going
> to
>>state their race because imho, their race isn't important - who they are
> and
>>what they've accomplished in life is (no, these aren't millionaires - just
>
>>people who've refused
>>to use race as an excuse).
>>
>>1 - we were talking about education, not welfare, health care or feeding
> the
>>poor. Handouts don't make people want to become more educated, and lack
> of
>>handouts don't prevent people from going to the public library, doing
>>their
>
>>homework, or listening in class. Granted not all schools have great
>>teachers, but all schools have students that don't try. Sorry, but you
>
>>won't get any sympathy by claiming that the "pull yourself up" mentality
> is
>>wrong and a "white man's" point of view. See my previous paragraph for
> the
>>reasons why.
>>
>>2 - you said: "But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work
>
>>". People, companys,farmers,this
>> country needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>
>>will."
>>
>>Therein lies the problem - "have expected handouts". Any program that
>>gives
>
>>handouts on a regular basis
>>with no effective method of turning that handout into a basis for an
>>individual to work on their own just creates a dependancy
>>rather than true effective change. Like I said, helping each other is one
>
>>of the best things we can do
>>with our time and resources, but creating dependancy on handouts is
>>dangerous. We all need help from time to
>>time, and as a society I agree - the balance of wealth is dangerously
>>skewed
>
>>in many areas: artist, entertainers, and sports stars
>>are at the top of my list, yet that's one area most people are happy to
>
>>spend money on without a second thought of that imbalance, regardless of
>
>>their economic capabilities. No need to talk about corporate greed -
>>we're
>
>>on the same
>>page there, but I think your view that "Those Billionairs love to keep us
>
>>scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save.."
> is
>>about is victim minded as I've heard.
>>Really Lamont, if you feel that oppressed by corporate America, just buy
>
>>Japanese and Chinese. ;-) It's easier
>>than buying American. ;-)) Hope you see the sad humor in that given you
> are
>>from the Detroit area - the home
>>of companies that have for years resisted alternative fuels, more
>>efficient
>
>>and enduring engines, supporting the one
>>industry that has more wealth than our country, and holds the whole world
> by
>>the cohones - oil.
>>
>>Oh.... 3 - you actually don't know what my race is, so aren't you just
>>reading my post, point of view,
>>and judging my race based on your own perception of stereotypes? How much
>
>>more racist could one possibly be?
>>Imho the place to stop racism is by individually ceasing to judge people's
>
>>potential based on skin color, and judging their
>>skin color based on their point of view. The rest will follow. Don't
>>judge
>
>>just because you think it makes your argument
>>stronger. Quite the opposite.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:478633ad@linux...
>>>
>>> Good Morning,
>>>
>>> I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a
> fact
>>> from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our
>
>>> cultural
>>> upbringing.
>>>
>>> I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
>>> not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose
> how
>>> to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
>>> turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
>>> to someone who is?
>>>
>>> Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the
>>> economy"..Oh
>>> Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure..
>
>>> Should
>>> we not help them?
>>>
>>> You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor
>>> folks
>>> arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and
>
>>> richer.
>>> And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it
>
>>> on..
>>>
>>> It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing
>
>>> less.
>>> Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing
>>> fingers,
>>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>>>
>>> Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's
>>> fight".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>>>>prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is
>>>>directed
>>>>at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
>>> I
>>>>don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online
>
>>>>(that
>>>>would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>>>>someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical
>>>>white
>>>>man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking
>>>>about.
>>>>None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever.
>>>>That's
>>>>shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>>>>observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping
> you
>>>>can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across.
> It's
>>>>hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>>>>same way.
>>>>
>>>>To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between
>>>>helping
>>>>the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
>>> of
>>>>changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>>>
>>>>In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>>>>community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to
>>>>expand
>>>>what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the
>>>>effect
>>>>is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>>>>personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
>>> are
>>>>guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do
> the
>>>>work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
>>> it,
>>>>when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>>>>guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Dedric
>>>>
>>>>On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>><jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
>>> and
>>>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>>>
>>>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>>>> companys,farmers,this
>>>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>>> will.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for
>>>>> things
>>>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a
>
>>>>> helphand,
>>>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>>>
>>>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
>>> out
>>>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been
>>>>> denied
>>> (even
>>>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
>>> he
>>>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
>>> what??
>>>>>
>>>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do
>
>>>>> belive
>>>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>>>>> unbelievable
>>>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle
>>>>> education
>>> is
>>>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
>>> are
>>>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at
>>>>> cross-roads
>>> with
>>>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
>>> major
>>>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka
>
>>>>> Blue
>>>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
>>> poor.
>>>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>>>> others,needed
>>>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
>>> public
>>>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded
>>>>>> systems).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
>>> or
>>>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality
> of
>>>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity
> and
>>>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it
> will
>>>>> take
>>>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
>>> for
>>>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private
>>>>>> innovation
>>>>> is
>>>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a
>
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
>>> (IB
>>>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level,
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I
>>>>>> attended
>>>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing)
>>>>>> suburban
>>>>> and
>>>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
>>> our
>>>>> 2
>>>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago,
> and
>>>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more
>>>>>> widespread
>>>>> at
>>>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more
>
>>>>>> money
>>>>> at
>>>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
>>> which
>>>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
>>> a given
>>>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or
>
>>>>>> local
>>>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant,
>>>>>> shoot
>>>>> one
>>>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and
>>>>>> becomes
>>>>> a
>>>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better
>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>> and
>>>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long.
>>>>>> Schools
>>>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might
> be
>>>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the
>>>>>> history
>>>>> of
>>>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus
>>>>>> proposes,
>>> it's
>>>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to
> be
>>>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
>>> are.
>>>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
>>> the
>>>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims
>
>>>>>> rather
>>>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
>>> heard
>>>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
>>> Teach
>>>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But
> if
>>> he
>>>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one,
>>>>>> he'll
>>>>> be
>>>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are
>>>>>> only
>>> what
>>>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only
>>>>>> what
>>> our
>>>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte
>>>>>> blanche
>>> for
>>>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
>>> cause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when
>
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful -
> it
>>> takes
>>>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home
> or
>>> in
>>>>> our
>>>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the
>>>>>> education
>>>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
>>> but
>>>>> if
>>>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
>>> is
>>>>> the
>>>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your
>>>>>> citizenship?
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for
>>>>>> this
>>> week.
>>>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates
>>>>>>> (re-inventing
>>>>> ) the
>>>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
>>> )
>>>>> old
>>>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
>>> The
>>>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the
>>>>>>> teachers.
>>>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this
>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
>>> students
>>>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
>>> (Bush)
>>>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then,
>>>>>>> stole
>>>>> major
>>>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last
> 20
>>>>> years)
>>>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
>>> in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's
>>>>>>> saddening
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
>>> RP's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have
>>>>>>>> views
>>>>> we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may
> well
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
>>> but
>>>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are
>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company)
>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
>>> across
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
>>> That's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level,
> but
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad
> the
>>>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from
>>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless
>>>>>>>> teachers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
>>> No,
>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
>>> make
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's
>>>>>>>> program
>>>>> aims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he
>>>>>>>> estimates
>>>>> 20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school
>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>> Doing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with
> over
>>>>> 80,000
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
>>> on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When
>>>>>>>>> questioned
>>>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
>>> word
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and
> the
>>>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
>>> Texas
>>>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
>>> those
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race
>>>>>>>>>> relations?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in
>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
>>> racial,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may
> or
>>> may
>>>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
>>> code
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When
>>>>>>>>>>> interviews
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
>>> about
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then
>>>>>>>>>>> "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
>>> about
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to
> take
>>>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore,
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94554 is a reply to message #94552] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 10:31 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I have no doubt whatsover that you are right Jamie. And Lamont, hopefully
I'll have the pleasure of meeting you in person
someday - perhaps a future group trip/meet at a NAMM show or AES. And I'll
ditto that invite for Friday, even though I know it's probably not
realistic, it's still just as sincere.
Regards,
Dedric
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47865d69@linux...
>
> I'll bet that if we got you two (LaMont and Dedric) in a room together,
> you would quickly find some common ground. Sometimes a text forum isn't
> the best form of communication...
>
> Hey LaMont, on the off chance you could come on out to Colorado this
> Friday, we're having a little PARIS get-together that Deej inspired (but
> Deej can't come after all - we'll miss you Deej!).
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
> LaM0nt wrote:
>> Let me just state, I totally disagree with you points..All Of them.
>>
>> That's why we have a divided nation..
>>
>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> So are you poor or just looking for sympathy at someone else's expense?
>>> Sorry to be so blunt, but that's what it sounds like. To paraphrase
>>> your
>>
>>> admonishment,
>>> if you aren't poor, then you have no right to fight a poor man's fight.
>>
>>> You are also still
>>> making "your types" generalizations, and I don't appreciate it. You
>>> don't
>>
>>> know what you
>>> are talking about and again, no offense, but you are using race as a
>>> crutch,
>>
>>> and I find that offensive.
>>>
>>> I personally know people who've seen more hard times and challenges than
>> you
>>> could imagine,
>>> and I know for certain they would be insulted by your approach and
>>> attitude
>>
>>> to what one needs to do personally to
>>> succeed in this country or any other, regardless of race. I'm not going
>> to
>>> state their race because imho, their race isn't important - who they are
>> and
>>> what they've accomplished in life is (no, these aren't millionaires -
>>> just
>>
>>> people who've refused
>>> to use race as an excuse).
>>>
>>> 1 - we were talking about education, not welfare, health care or feeding
>> the
>>> poor. Handouts don't make people want to become more educated, and lack
>> of
>>> handouts don't prevent people from going to the public library, doing
>>> their
>>
>>> homework, or listening in class. Granted not all schools have great
>>> teachers, but all schools have students that don't try. Sorry, but you
>>
>>> won't get any sympathy by claiming that the "pull yourself up" mentality
>> is
>>> wrong and a "white man's" point of view. See my previous paragraph for
>> the
>>> reasons why.
>>>
>>> 2 - you said: "But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never
>>> work
>>
>>> ". People, companys,farmers,this
>>> country needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>>
>>> will."
>>>
>>> Therein lies the problem - "have expected handouts". Any program that
>>> gives
>>
>>> handouts on a regular basis
>>> with no effective method of turning that handout into a basis for an
>>> individual to work on their own just creates a dependancy
>>> rather than true effective change. Like I said, helping each other is
>>> one
>>
>>> of the best things we can do
>>> with our time and resources, but creating dependancy on handouts is
>>> dangerous. We all need help from time to
>>> time, and as a society I agree - the balance of wealth is dangerously
>>> skewed
>>
>>> in many areas: artist, entertainers, and sports stars
>>> are at the top of my list, yet that's one area most people are happy to
>>
>>> spend money on without a second thought of that imbalance, regardless of
>>
>>> their economic capabilities. No need to talk about corporate greed -
>>> we're
>>
>>> on the same
>>> page there, but I think your view that "Those Billionairs love to keep
>>> us
>>
>>> scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
>>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save.."
>> is
>>> about is victim minded as I've heard.
>>> Really Lamont, if you feel that oppressed by corporate America, just buy
>>
>>> Japanese and Chinese. ;-) It's easier
>>> than buying American. ;-)) Hope you see the sad humor in that given you
>> are
>>>from the Detroit area - the home
>>> of companies that have for years resisted alternative fuels, more
>>> efficient
>>
>>> and enduring engines, supporting the one
>>> industry that has more wealth than our country, and holds the whole
>>> world
>> by
>>> the cohones - oil.
>>>
>>> Oh.... 3 - you actually don't know what my race is, so aren't you just
>>> reading my post, point of view,
>>> and judging my race based on your own perception of stereotypes? How
>>> much
>>
>>> more racist could one possibly be?
>>> Imho the place to stop racism is by individually ceasing to judge
>>> people's
>>
>>> potential based on skin color, and judging their
>>> skin color based on their point of view. The rest will follow. Don't
>>> judge
>>
>>> just because you think it makes your argument
>>> stronger. Quite the opposite.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:478633ad@linux...
>>>> Good Morning,
>>>>
>>>> I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a
>> fact
>>>> from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our
>>
>>>> cultural
>>>> upbringing.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First,
>>>> it's
>>>> not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose
>> how
>>>> to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does
>>>> not
>>>> turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind
>>>> eye
>>>> to someone who is?
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the
>>>> economy"..Oh
>>>> Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure..
>>
>>>> Should
>>>> we not help them?
>>>>
>>>> You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor
>>>> folks
>>>> arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and
>>
>>>> richer.
>>>> And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it
>>
>>>> on..
>>>>
>>>> It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing
>>
>>>> less.
>>>> Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing
>>>> fingers,
>>>> while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>>>>
>>>> Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's
>>>> fight".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>> Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>>>>> prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is
>>>>> directed
>>>>> at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere
>>>>> and
>>>> I
>>>>> don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online
>>
>>>>> (that
>>>>> would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>>>>> someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical
>>>>> white
>>>>> man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking
>>>>> about.
>>>>> None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>>>>> observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping
>> you
>>>>> can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across.
>> It's
>>>>> hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others
>>>>> the
>>>>> same way.
>>>>>
>>>>> To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between
>>>>> helping
>>>>> the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in
>>>>> hopes
>>>> of
>>>>> changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>>>>> community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to
>>>>> expand
>>>>> what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the
>>>>> effect
>>>>> is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>>>>> personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of
>>>>> us
>>>> are
>>>>> guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do
>> the
>>>>> work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better
>>>>> for
>>>> it,
>>>>> when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>>>>> guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
>>>> and
>>>>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>>>>> companys,farmers,this
>>>>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if
>>>>>> you
>>>> will.
>>>>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a
>>
>>>>>> helphand,
>>>>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You
>>>>>> take
>>>> out
>>>>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>>>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been
>>>>>> denied
>>>> (even
>>>>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
>>>> he
>>>>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified,
>>>>>> then
>>>> what??
>>>>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do
>>
>>>>>> belive
>>>>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> unbelievable
>>>>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle
>>>>>> education
>>>> is
>>>>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These
>>>>>> kids
>>>> are
>>>>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at
>>>>>> cross-roads
>>>> with
>>>>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
>>>> major
>>>>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka
>>
>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
>>>> poor.
>>>>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>>>>> others,needed
>>>>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
>>>> public
>>>>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded
>>>>>>> systems).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
>>>> or
>>>>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality
>> of
>>>>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity
>> and
>>>>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it
>> will
>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work -
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
>>>> for
>>>>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private
>>>>>>> innovation
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a
>>
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public
>>>>>>> school
>>>> (IB
>>>>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level,
>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I
>>>>>>> attended
>>>>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing)
>>>>>>> suburban
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
>>>> our
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago,
>> and
>>>>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more
>>>>>>> widespread
>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more
>>
>>>>>>> money
>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
>>>> which
>>>>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
>>>> a given
>>>>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or
>>
>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant,
>>>>>>> shoot
>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and
>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better
>>>>>>> opportunities
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long.
>>>>>>> Schools
>>>>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might
>> be
>>>>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the
>>>>>>> history
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus
>>>>>>> proposes,
>>>> it's
>>>>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to
>> be
>>>>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
>>>> are.
>>>>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts
>>>>>>> and
>>>> the
>>>>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims
>>
>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've
>>>>>>> all
>>>> heard
>>>>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
>>>> Teach
>>>>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But
>> if
>>>> he
>>>>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one,
>>>>>>> he'll
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are
>>>>>>> only
>>>> what
>>>>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only
>>>>>>> what
>>>> our
>>>>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte
>>>>>>> blanche
>>>> for
>>>>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
>>>> cause.
>>>>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when
>>
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful -
>> it
>>>> takes
>>>>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home
>> or
>>>> in
>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the
>>>>>>> education
>>>>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
>>>> but
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
>>>> is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your
>>>>>>> citizenship?
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for
>>>>>>> this
>>>> week.
>>>>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my
>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont"
>>>>>>> <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates
>>>>>>>> (re-inventing
>>>>>> ) the
>>>>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2
>>>>>>>> year
>>>> )
>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a
>>>>>>>> horrible.
>>>> The
>>>>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the
>>>>>>>> teachers.
>>>>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this
>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
>>>> students
>>>>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
>>>> (Bush)
>>>>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then,
>>>>>>>> stole
>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last
>> 20
>>>>>> years)
>>>>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's
>>>>>>>> saddening
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't
>>>>>>>>> know
>>>> RP's
>>>>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have
>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole
>>>>>>>>> boy
>>>>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may
>> well
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are
>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company)
>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
>>>> across
>>>>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
>>>> That's
>>>>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level,
>> but
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad
>> the
>>>>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from
>>>>>>>>> schools
>>>>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless
>>>>>>>>> teachers,
>>>>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
>>>> No,
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's
>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>> aims
>>>>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he
>>>>>>>>> estimates
>>>>>> 20
>>>>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school
>>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>> Doing
>>>>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with
>> over
>>>>>> 80,000
>>>>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen
>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When
>>>>>>>>>> questioned
>>>>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education:
>>>>>>>>>> Code
>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and
>> the
>>>>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is
>>>>>>>>>> old
>>>> Texas
>>>>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race
>>>>>>>>>>> relations?
>>>>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in
>>>>>>>>>>> addressing
>>>>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I
>>>>>>>>>>> agree
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
>>>> racial,
>>>>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may
>> or
>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to
>>>>>>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When
>>>>>>>>>>>> interviews
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then
>>>>>>>>>>>> "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right
>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to
>> take
>>>>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore,
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>
|
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94557 is a reply to message #94556] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 12:03 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well put, Don. Part of the problem is that demonization is stock in
trade with some kinds of political talk programming.
Next time you hear a self-appointed political pundit use a derisive term
for someone he or she merely disagrees with, turn off the radio/TV/web
site and walk away.
Demonization is only good for dividing us, and why should we fall for
that? Are we so insecure with out beliefs that we must disrespect others
merely for having a different opinion?
And anyway, if the pundits in question had actual factual support for
whatever points of view they were flogging, derisive terms would be
totally unnecessary.
We're in for a long election season, stand by with the off buttons. That
goes for negative political commercials, too.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
DC wrote:
> The truth is found, not in rhetoric, but in relationship.
>
> Too many black people have no white friends, and too many white
> people have no black friends.
>
> Too many lefties have no conservative friends, and of course
> Too many conservatives have no liberal friends...
>
> Relationships will open your eyes.
>
> Personally, I think equality for all is a basic conservative
> position. There are millions of black people who feel this
> way. They will be an important force in this country in
> the next decade.
>
> I think the right needs to re-embrace
> both civil rights and black people to be become what it
> should be.
>
> DC
|
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| Re: LaMont was right... [message #94561 is a reply to message #94546] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 14:27 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ron Paul clearly says the we, (our Government) Should take care of our homeless
and poor, and he doesn't care what race they are. He also says we should
help them get on their feet. As opposed to handing out billions of dollars
like breath mints to the rest of the world. He wants to get rid of the useless
federal bureaucracies. He wants the government to focus on we the people,
and not the bureaucracies. Go check out his web site and watch his speeches.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Good Morning,
>
>I apologize if my statements come off as racist, they are not..Just a fact
>from a Black man in America. Our view points are differnt because our cultural
>upbringing.
>
>I disagree with you about giving and so-called gov freebies. First, it's
>not the Govs money. It's our. So, we the people have a right to choose how
>to spend it. Helping people in need is Trait from God. He (God) does not
>turn his back on us when we ar e in need, so why are to turn a blind eye
>to someone who is?
>
>Not to mention, Corp bailouts all in name ad cause of "good for the economy"..Oh
>Yeah, what about all those who have been and are facing foreclosure.. Should
>we not help them?
>
>You are speweing right-wing libritarian nonsense that keeps us poor folks
>arguing over "scraps".Meanwhile the rich just keep getting richer and richer.
>And all your types do is look at a brand or group of folks to blame it on..
>
>It's all about the 'Distribution Of Wealth". $$$$ Nothing more, nothing
less.
>Those Billionairs love to keep us scabbling and blaming, pointing fingers,
>while they continue to rape us of what little monies we try to save..
>
>Unless you are rich, you have no right to "fight/debate a richman's fight".
>
>
>
>
>
>Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>Lamont, don't take offense to this, but your post sounds as racist and
>>prejudiced as I've heard, and certainly in the context that it is directed
>>at me. I'm not going to get into this further as it's going nowhere and
>I
>>don't have any interest in sharing my personal life experiences online
(that
>>would have to be over coffee in person - perhaps we'll have a chance
>>someday), but trust me when I say, when referring to me as "typical white
>>man" or "your hero Ron Reagan" you have no idea what you are talking about.
>>None. You are judging me without knowing me or any facts whatsoever. That's
>>shortsighted at best, racist at worst - not an accusation, just an
>>observation. Again, no personal offense intended at all - just hoping
you
>>can see the reality of how your words and point of view come across. It's
>>hard to gain sympathy for a problem you may face if you treat others the
>>same way.
>>
>>To end on a less personal note, there is a huge difference between helping
>>the poor and handing out token freebies as a government program in hopes
>of
>>changing a society. Monumental difference.
>>
>>In truth it's our society that should be helping one another at the
>>community, neighborhood and personal level. We develop programs to expand
>>what we want to do personally on a smaller scale, but eventually the effect
>>is watered down both financially among other costs, and certainly on a
>>personal level as there is no personal interaction. I think most of us
>are
>>guilty of relying on another organization, church, or government to do
the
>>work while we drop a check in the mail or the basket to feel better for
>it,
>>when the person who needs a hand most might be next door. I know I am
>>guilty of that. Just a thought.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Dedric
>>
>>On 1/10/08 1:18 AM, in article 4785c6ad$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I would agree withg you that some federal spending on education could
>and
>>> needs to be reworked..
>>>
>>> But, I totaly disagree with you about "Handouts never work ". People,
>>> companys,farmers,this
>>> country ) needs bailouts , and have excpeted handouts, bailouts if you
>will.
>>>
>>> If you are a spiritual man, than you lean to rely on the Lord for things
>>> that you can't do. Bottom line, everybody form time to time needs a
helphand,
>>> and yes a blessing, gift, handout, bailout..
>>>
>>> Your kind of thinking is a typical white man's point of view. You take
>out
>>> the race. This country is not fair to all. Do we agree on that?
>>> I know of folks (African Americans)who have tried but have been denied
>(even
>>> through qualified) oportunities,jobs, houses, loans
>>>
>>> So, you can traach a man to fish hunt, But, if that man, is told that
>he
>>> can't hunt nor fish on this land or pond, or he is not qualified, then
>what??
>>>
>>> I do'nt buy this pull you self up lingo in this country. Wait, I do belive
>>> that if you are white.. And, yes, some of us blacks do make in by some
>>> unbelievable
>>> obstacales that would have made most quit..
>>>
>>> Back to education: I would say that our elementary and middle education
>is
>>> fine...but, it's the high schools, and better the students..These kids
>are
>>> out of control. Reguardless of race. The teachers are of at cross-roads
>with
>>> this generation teeangers. This is all behavioral. Hip-Hop has had an
>major
>>> -downside effect on American Teens..
>>>
>>> I don't have an answer to that..BTW, I'm a conservative Democrat(Aka
Blue
>>> Dog-Christain). I give Tithes and offering to help and feed/cloth the
>poor.
>>> Your hero Ron Reagan was on Welfare. Did'nt stay on it, but like many
>>> others,needed
>>> that helping hand (AKa Hand out)..
>>>
>>>
>>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Lamont - so you agree with me that urban school systems, and many
>public
>>>> schools are not working under "status quo" (e.g. federally funded systems).
>>>>
>>>> For reference, my info is from people who have dedicated years to this
>>>> cause, so it isn't idle speculation or personal frustration, and the
>>>> solution isn't even in the ballpark of a government program, policy,
>or
>>>> program. There are simple solutions that could improve the quality
of
>>>> education for each child in this country, but due to the complexity
and
>>>> sluggish nature of our education system (being federally tied), it will
>>> take
>>>> decades to make a dent, if at all. I've seen the program work - it's
>>>> phenomenal and could do what no amount of federal funding could, and
>for
>>>> pennies per child, if not free. That's where personal/private innovation
>>> is
>>>> drastically more effective than waiting for a government to solve a
problem.
>>>>
>>>> For additional reference, my son goes to an alternative public school
>(IB
>>>> program) and it is excellent. Granted, at the elementary level, problems
>>>> aren't as bad as higher grades (though there are exceptions). I attended
>>>> schools in all parts of our home town (as a product of bussing) suburban
>>> and
>>>> urban - some were good, some were just okay (5 different ones due to
>our
>>> 2
>>>> year system, from first to 12th grade). That was a few years ago, and
>>>> people have changed; society has changed. Problems are more widespread
>>> at
>>>> earlier ages. Is that the government's fault for not throwing more
money
>>> at
>>>> the problem? No, it's a failure at the family and individual level,
>which
>>>> transfers to every job and responsibility taken by any individual in
>a given
>>>> community or society. No one from federal or local governments, or
local
>>>> school systems is encouraging young teenagers to become pregnant, shoot
>>> one
>>>> another, or take drugs. That happens as a product of society and becomes
>>> a
>>>> part of every aspect of that society. We can make better opportunities
>>> and
>>>> better environments with enough money, but it only lasts so long. Schools
>>>> that are now problematic, were probably great 20 years ago. Might be
>>>> interesting to check the test scores and pass/fail rates for the history
>>> of
>>>> the school in your neighborhood.
>>>>
>>>> If you check what Ron Paul and the Republican Liberty Caucus proposes,
>it's
>>>> abolishing the Federal Department of Education - leaving schools to
be
>>>> managed at the state and local levels, which the pretty much already
>are.
>>>> I'm not making a statement either way - just clarifying the facts and
>the
>>>> realities of what causes problems in society.
>>>>
>>>> We are fast becoming a bleeding heart, woe-is-me country of victims
rather
>>>> than innovators and problem solvers. Handouts never work - we've all
>heard
>>>> the Chinese proverb - "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
> Teach
>>>> a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"... it is true. But if
>he
>>>> doesn't want to learn to fish and just wants you to give him one, he'll
>>> be
>>>> hungry the next day. If you don't give him one then, he'll start
>>>> considering stealing.
>>>>
>>>> What I personally would discourage is a victim mentality. We are only
>what
>>>> we are individually out of choice, unless you believe we are only what
>our
>>>> environment allows, and nothing more. Circumstances aren't always
>>>> favorable, or even tolerable, but blaming the government carte blanche
>for
>>>> the ils of society is in fact part of the problem, if not a majority
>cause.
>>>>
>>>> łNo great man ever complains of want of opportunity.˛
>>>> Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>>>
>>>> In support of this, 2/3 of today's billionaires were dirt poor when
they
>>>> started out... it takes more the open doors to become successful - it
>takes
>>>> determination. That's what isn't being taught in schools, at home or
>in
>>> our
>>>> society. I know of other billionaires working on revamping the education
>>>> system - not just the Gates Foundation.
>>>>
>>>> The point is, we can change our government until the cows come home,
>but
>>> if
>>>> people who work and live at the local level don't want to change, then
>>>> voting for change is a fool's folly. Making one's own opportunities
>is
>>> the
>>>> most certain way to solve a problem.
>>>>
>>>> PS: Why do you say "your President"? Have you changed your citizenship?
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> We don't have to go on with this - probably enough OT threads for this
>week.
>>>> Email me offline if you prefer. I think I've about exhausted my time
>>>> allocation for OT this month. ;-))
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dedric
>>>>
>>>> On 1/9/08 11:15 PM, in article 4785a9ef$1@linux, "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cont: I'm a big supporter of the Bill and Melinda Gates (re-inventing
>>> ) the
>>>>> US educational system. It's horrible.
>>>>>
>>>>> My wie and I are agonising over what school to send our baby (2 year
>)
>>> old
>>>>> when shes turns five(school age). These suburban schools a horrible.
>The
>>>>> kids lack manners. Are having sex (in school). Cursing out the teachers.
>>>>> Girls dress like strippers. Horrible. When we invested into this community,
>>>>> we did not expect the local school system to be this bad.
>>>>> ANd, we're told the private schools are not that much better.
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT, do i want to kill public education. For it's ills, there still
>students
>>>>> in this nation who are "learning". Can it improve, yes..
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaking of the goverment throwing more money..Well, your President
>(Bush)
>>>>> has underfunded the No Child Left Behind program big time. Then, stole
>>> major
>>>>> funding to our public universities, while letting Predatory Student
>>>>> loan(sharks)
>>>>> have their way and in-debt students for life..(I digress) :)
>>>>>
>>>>> What's really broke is America. Our Gov has has been (for the last
20
>>> years)
>>>>> made a concerted effort to dumb us all down andslow down technology
>in
>>> the
>>>>> name of NAtional Security. We so behind in so many areas it's saddening
>>> to
>>>>> think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I only read part of the originally posted transcript and don't know
>RP's
>>>>>
>>>>>> views on race personally (and
>>>>>> neither does anyone else apparently) so he may or may not have views
>>> we
>>>>>
>>>>>> would all object to,
>>>>>> but just have to interject that just saying someone's "good ole boy
>>>>>> politics" makes them racist
>>>>>> is in itself stereotyping and just as prejudiced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His reasoning for getting rid of the Department of Education may well
>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>>> because it is failing
>>>>>> to do it's job (I don't know if getting rid of it is the solution,
>but
>>>>>> keeping it "status quo" is not, for certain).
>>>>>> Charter schools, private and alternative approach schools are significantly
>>>>>
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> successful currently (I have inside info to know this).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lamont, I worked with an entrepreneur (and his partner company) trying
>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> change the education system from the inside out,
>>>>>> starting with inner city schools. Did you know that urban schools
>across
>>>>>
>>>>>> the US have an average
>>>>>> of 80% student population falling below a basic proficiency level?
> That's
>>>>>
>>>>>> basic reading and math - 80%
>>>>>> are below a very basic level - not a higher than realistic level,
but
>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>> lower than realistic level.
>>>>>> I don't recall all of the stats, but it blew me away just how bad
the
>>>>>> education system is. Atlanta is in terrible shape.
>>>>>> Others are doing poorly as well. These are their stats from schools
>>>>>> systems, not political parties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who's failure is that? Politicians in Washington? Not unless teachers,
>>>>>
>>>>>> community leaders and parents
>>>>>> look to Washington for instruction when they get up each morning.
>No,
>>> it's
>>>>>
>>>>>> a public problem that
>>>>>> "we the people" are ignoring, and it's hard to not put a bit of
>>>>>> responsibility on the students for just
>>>>>> not caring enough to try harder. All the money in the world can't
>make
>>>>>
>>>>>> someone want to learn. To
>>>>>> the support of students who haven't had a chance, my friend's program
>>> aims
>>>>>
>>>>>> to correct learning problems
>>>>>> that are holding a lot of kids back - and it works - but he estimates
>>> 20
>>>>>
>>>>>> years to work through the
>>>>>> red tape and establishment that is the current public school system.
>>> Doing
>>>>>
>>>>>> away with it just might
>>>>>> save a few hundred thousand kids. They are already working with over
>>> 80,000
>>>>>
>>>>>> in a private school system
>>>>>> (can't get access to public schools....).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dedric
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote in message news:47855784$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Bill, when Russert pressed RP on his past voting, writen views
>on
>>>>>
>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>> issues, they were in line with the good O'l boy politics. When questioned
>>>>>>> about those thngs he tried to deny saying them and voting or even
>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>> those controversial views.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One comment was: To do away with the Department of Education: Code
>word
>>>>>
>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>> getting rid of public (Inner city) education..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While, I agree with his stance on the current administration and
the
>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>> war, I disagree with his kind of politics in general, which is old
>Texas
>>>>>>> style politics..
>>>>>>> Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lamont,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the code words? What did he actually say? I want to know
>those
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where did he say he wants to take the US back to 1940 on race relations?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did not catch that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I have heard him say is that he does not believe in addressing
>>>>>>>> problems of groups, but that it should be of individuals. I agree
>with
>>>>>>>> that. Any effort to lump people together as group, whether it be
>racial,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> religious, political or sexual generates generalities that may or
>may
>>>>>>>> not apply. Only specific truths and viewpoints lead to solutions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LaMont wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Being a student of racial affairs of this nation, you learn the
>code
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>> of Racist. I's a disguised language of codes words. When interviews
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> Russert,
>>>>>>>>> he RP started saying those coded words. When Russert pressed on
>about
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>> past voting record and writings, he got angry and then "cracked"..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's a Texan Reacist. Period. Yeah, he's saying the right things
>about
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Iraq situation, but on the domestic front, this dude whats to take
>>>>>>>>> America
>>>>>>>>> back into the 1940-50s on race relations. That's not good. Therefore,
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> is a Kook..A hack, a Third rate Racist Texas Politicition..
>>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=e2f15397-a3c7-4720 -ac15-4532a
>>>>>>>>>> 7d
>>>>>>>>>> a84ca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is not good...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: LaMont was right... RP responds [message #94566 is a reply to message #94556] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 15:09 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/125/ron-paul-state ment-on-the-new-republic-article-regarding-old-newsletters
Sorry, I find this unconvincing.
Essentially, RP says:
Old News
Already Dealt With
Rehashed
I didn't write that stuff
Dirty Trick on day of NH primary
I am sorry for not editing those comments more closely
I love MLK!
Sorry, no sale... I suspect those newsletters were unattributed
(no author listed) for precisely these reasons: they would then
be deniable.
They went out under his name. He is responsible.
Now, if those stupid articles had come out under MY name,
I would have resigned from the org and LOUDLY denounced the
author by name the next morning.
If RP had done that, all he would have to do is quote himself.
He did not. He is responsible for those stupid and ignorant
articles.
I don't think he is a closet kluxer,
but those articles describe how he really feels IMO.
And if it was a dirty trick, why in hell use it now? Paul is not
a factor in the race at this point. If it was a dirty trick, you save
it for when he becomes a real threat to win, then you drop
the bomb.
And, suppose a real kluxer, (or former kluxer) say Dukes or Byrd,
was running. Would you buy the "old news" defense?
We need a Libertarian candidate to run. Not this one however.
DC
|
|
|
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| Re: LaMont was right... RP responds [message #94570 is a reply to message #94566] |
Thu, 10 January 2008 14:22 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, I believe him. Take a look at his congressional voting record and
see if it does not align tightly with what he says is his platform. To
me a voting record consistent with your candidacy promises and stated
beliefs shows integrity and i like that in a candidate.
DC wrote:
> http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/125/ron-paul-state ment-on-the-new-republic-article-regarding-old-newsletters
>
> Sorry, I find this unconvincing.
>
> Essentially, RP says:
>
> Old News
>
> Already Dealt With
>
> Rehashed
>
> I didn't write that stuff
>
> Dirty Trick on day of NH primary
>
> I am sorry for not editing those comments more closely
>
> I love MLK!
>
>
> Sorry, no sale... I suspect those newsletters were unattributed
> (no author listed) for precisely these reasons: they would then
> be deniable.
>
> They went out under his name. He is responsible.
>
> Now, if those stupid articles had come out under MY name,
> I would have resigned from the org and LOUDLY denounced the
> author by name the next morning.
> If RP had done that, all he would have to do is quote himself.
> He did not. He is responsible for those stupid and ignorant
> articles.
>
> I don't think he is a closet kluxer,
> but those articles describe how he really feels IMO.
>
> And if it was a dirty trick, why in hell use it now? Paul is not
> a factor in the race at this point. If it was a dirty trick, you save
> it for when he becomes a real threat to win, then you drop
> the bomb.
>
> And, suppose a real kluxer, (or former kluxer) say Dukes or Byrd,
> was running. Would you buy the "old news" defense?
>
> We need a Libertarian candidate to run. Not this one however.
>
> DC
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