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Typical Paris sound? [message #106852]

Thu, 29 December 2011 16:48

Micha

Messages: 72
Registered: January 2009

Member

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDXIWre9LVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHgbGZnkg58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d9qE1qB9wc

I know these guys recorded this material in paris, what do you think, can you hear the "parisness"? Smile

Have my MEC standin here, its waiting for the new drivers Very Happy

Ah and happy new year, guys!

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106853 is a reply to message #106852]

Fri, 30 December 2011 07:58

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

Deep, rich and three dimensional.

Hotly debated topic, whether one DAW has a "sound".

The only thing I find with Paris, is there's a lot of low-mid build up that seems inherent. So I usually have to work at getting the vertical height of the image increased. Means subtracting bass and/or boosting treble with a hi-pass. This often means trouble for me...

Ted

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106854 is a reply to message #106853]

Fri, 30 December 2011 11:53

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

That's the analog sound Wink

I usually have trouble with the same thing getting that definition with the lower end in a dense mix. Anything else you do that works for you Ted?

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106862 is a reply to message #106852]

Tue, 03 January 2012 14:58

anfallszonen

Messages: 10
Registered: April 2009

Junior Member

It can also sound like this.
http://www.myspace.com/sandbandinfo

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106863 is a reply to message #106862]

Wed, 04 January 2012 12:08

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

Sounds great. good job all 'round!

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106866 is a reply to message #106863]

Thu, 05 January 2012 08:32

Micha

Messages: 72
Registered: January 2009

Member

yeah, more Swedish music Smile

the ones postet above by me are native Swedes-

And also like this, http://soundcloud.com/micha-w/god-created-the-gameboy-to-kil l-your-ears
I made it with no experiance of anything and almost every channel was in the red indicators in paris because I thought it sounds cool Razz

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106867 is a reply to message #106866]

Thu, 05 January 2012 10:34

Will The Weirdo

Messages: 190
Registered: December 2009
Location: On The Lake

Senior Member

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYwo7eiiE0E

It's a classic now, and all done in PARIS.

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106868 is a reply to message #106867]

Fri, 06 January 2012 20:31

John Houston

Messages: 79
Registered: May 2009
Location: Hurricane Utah

Member

Check out ICHABOD TODD " FREAK "on You Tube. Also a Paris track, along with 90% of the ichabod Todd tracks on his you tube channel. Yup, ya gotta scupe some of the mud out!

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106899 is a reply to message #106868]

Mon, 30 January 2012 08:23

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

Really starting to rethink my setup and have a question in regards to what Ted has also mentioned. This last project I am working on and about ready to mix is a metal album and I really noticed this low/mid build up more than other times....maybe I am just listening more to newer stuff. I am wondering if it is more the way PARIS sums many tracks once you get a large track count going 40+....or just the converters are showing their age. I am wondering if anyone has found one way or the other better to remedy this....
way #1...track in PARIS and mix in another platform to get a more open sound
way #2...track through new converters and mix in PARIS.
I know some of you have mixed in other platforms and ran stems in to PARIS but did you record in PARIS as well? Did limiting to just a few stems keep the lower end less muddy due to less tracks being summing in PARIS? I am sure it is a combination of both but I am trying to find the most efficient way to work these days. I got a mix project in the other week that was done on protools and used AAtranslator to open the project in Reaper and just doing a rough mix using some UAD plugs with no work around I was feeling I was getting a better mix to start with and not missing that analog low mud. Smile

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106902 is a reply to message #106899]

Tue, 31 January 2012 09:21

Micha

Messages: 72
Registered: January 2009

Member

way #3 EQ low mids out?

"radical" mid eqing is useful for making distorted stuff more sitting in the mix i think. does the guitar really need much low end? often it comes from the bass, so its not needed. ain't i right?

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106903 is a reply to message #106899]

Tue, 31 January 2012 12:45

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

Way # 2 is way more desirable than #1 assuming you're good with all the well known current limitations of Paris.

If on the other hand, you're happy with the Paris AD and find bussing capabilities and automatic plugin delay of Reaper etc really really speeds up your mixing, then maybe that's the better route for you.

All I know is that a number of folks have used other ADs - Radar, Apogee etc (I use Lavry) - and mixed in Paris, finding that to be a good combination.

T

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106904 is a reply to message #106903]

Tue, 31 January 2012 19:29

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

Yeah Ted....that is what I am thinking as well. The last few projects I have been integrating Reaper more and more especially with VSTi's and using some plugs that don't seem to keep their presets in PARIS, specifically the Slate Trigger plugin which I am really liking. I also got a project in to mix a couple of weeks ago and just imported it straight into Reaper and am finding things to be much more efficient. I have not yet but will eventually send some stems into PARIS for that and see what is going on. I am just afraid I do need to spend the money on new converters and once I do I will be happy without PARIS as I am finding I really need to be more efficient and really would like a more streamlined workflow...although tracking and editing in PARIS is a breeze but I guess most things might be after using them for over 10 years.

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106905 is a reply to message #106852]

Wed, 01 February 2012 05:47

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

First off - I'm not a pro mixer.

True - I spend way too much time doing this for the amount of money I get paid for it, but it is not my principle occupation. Therefore my abilities or lack thereof work against me producing top level mixes on any platform.

Having said that, I have tried mixing in Logic, Harrison Mixbus, Studio One, Reaper and CuBase and even if I reach acceptable results quickly, they never seem to have the 3 dimensionality that is quickly apparent to me with Paris.

Maybe if I learned the approach suited to those platforms more, things would change. But I have the suspicion that if I did mix in those programs, I would be craving major external comps, verbs, eqs and summing, which I can't afford.

I have and use an API2500, ADL 1500, Smart C1, Overstayer FET, UBK Clariphonic and TC3000 and Lex PCM 91 with Paris now, and you would think with these external boxes I could get great results using the other programs, but I just have difficulty doing so. Things just seem to collapse more quickly...

T

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106906 is a reply to message #106905]

Wed, 01 February 2012 07:13

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

Yeah....when I go back to PARIS I get the depth I am missing but do seem to loose a little bit of width. So if anyone has any tips on widening the stereo field in PARIS while keeping the depth I am all ears here to. I am thinking maybe new monitors are in order as well to help translate the low mids better when eq'ing. Leaning towards a pair of Focal 6 solo's to replace my tired and aging Tannoy Reveals. Just trying to make the fight easier. Got about $2500 to spend on some upgrades so just looking as always to get the most for what I need right now and that is to clean up the mud in some of my dense mixes and take that veil off of my PARIS ones.

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106909 is a reply to message #106906]

Wed, 01 February 2012 17:11

Wayne

Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas

Senior Member

Last year I purchased Izotope's Ozone 4. It was $200.00, I think. I did it for a mastering tool. It is a native resource hog with a serious latency so I don't use it within projects.

I mixdown a project to a stereo mix I then pop it in a new project and use the Ozone on track one, engage the stereo function and it grabs track two. It can really widen the mix, has multiband compression, delay, a boat load of presets, a master reverb, parametric eq with 10 or 12 nodes and a master reverb.

I haven't really been able to get super good tight low end because I don't know how to use the modules that well yet. But it does widen well on several of the presets.

Don't try to use it in a standard mix, just the stereo master mix in it's own project. I think I was able to have a 10-30 day trial period too. I can't remember exactly. I downloaded the software from Izotope.

Wayne

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106912 is a reply to message #106905]

Sat, 04 February 2012 11:57

cduffy

Messages: 29
Registered: June 2009
Location: dc

Junior Member

hi ted - i found the thing that makes a native daws image collapse almost immediately is the very thing we instinctively do in paris - recording super hot and pushing the faders.

If you can get over that one single habit i think you will see some serious 'gains' in any native daw u choose - all that great external gear you have should just make it better.

use 24 bit and track conservatively peaking around -12 or so. mix peaking @ -3 or so max.

watch very closely for clipping in individual insert plugs

trick yourself by trying the following before mixing (it's what paris did behind the scenes anyway..) use the builtin trim - or a trim plug first on EVERY single channel and lower it by about 10db. Set it up in a template - then get amnesia and forget you did it Smile

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106920 is a reply to message #106912]

Mon, 06 February 2012 19:42

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

HI Chuck

Thanks for the input

Yeah I'm aware of that process and tried it a few years ago in Logic. I could probably do much better today than I did then.

In fact i don't track that hot in PARIS either - aiming for -10 or so peak and -20 or so average. I also use the Sonalksis Free G on lots of channels.

Thing also is that I don't have 16 channels of good ADDA to run outboard. I did install an SSL Alpha Link here ( I sell them) to run Paris ADAT in/out through and it was better conversion but I couldn't get rid of a ton of clicks and pops no matter what WC config I tried.

If I had better ADDA outside of my PARIS i/o I would do much better I'm sure. In fact, I'm waiting to try the new Focusrite Rednet with Ethernet on my laptop to see how that works.

The Alpha Link is one of the great audio deals out there right now - 24 ADDA with 3 ms latency using a PCIe host card, or 10ms latency in standalone, all for about $3K. The Rednet looks good 'cause I can use it on my MacBook Pro.

T

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106921 is a reply to message #106920]

Mon, 06 February 2012 19:44

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

BTW - one of the things I noticed right away with the SSL ADDA was less low mid congestion...

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106922 is a reply to message #106921]

Tue, 07 February 2012 14:29

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

Chuck and Ted....thanks for the detailed responses. Looks like I will have to make due a bit longer with what I have. Just found out about 3 days ago I am being furloughed for about 4-6 months from my "other real job" so a couple purchases I have been looking at will have to be put off. I guess I get to work harder on my mixes. Wink

Attached is where I am at with a song off that current metal project that they finally finished tracking.

UPDATED MIX 9:24 CST 2/7/12.....Now I think we are getting somewhere Wink

Attachment: this time mix A.mp3
(Size: 7.47MB, Downloaded 282 times)

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

[Updated on: Tue, 07 February 2012 19:25]

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106924 is a reply to message #106922]

Wed, 08 February 2012 03:56

dnafe

Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

with the exception of that dead snare you've nailed it

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106925 is a reply to message #106924]

Wed, 08 February 2012 06:41

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

Thanks for the encouragement Don. I think once I started doing some filtering and cutting my biggest help was actually a pair of Altec Lansing earbuds that I bought for listening to stuff while I am gone a few months back. Never really thought about using them until referencing other material through them and realizing how much detail they had which is what I was looking for to clean things up.....funny. I don't have a sub with my Tannoys so I think I like to track mixing for a really full sound but end up fighting that in my mixes in the end. Yeah, I should probably go back and add a bit more of the original snare in or use one with a bit more ring as I can probably add that back in now as I found which wrapper let slate trigger keep its settings too.

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106930 is a reply to message #106925]

Wed, 08 February 2012 18:42

thesandbox1

Messages: 167
Registered: July 2009
Location: Carmel, IN

Senior Member

Next song on the project...this snare any better? Wink

Attachment: the unnamed mix A.mp3
(Size: 5.74MB, Downloaded 276 times)

https://www.facebook.com/Sandbox-Productions-Recording-Studi o-Carmel-IN-122733877784336/

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106931 is a reply to message #106930]

Wed, 08 February 2012 20:19

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

Yes it is. Sounds really good.

Everything (snare/kick, guitars even vox) could use more pronounced attack though.
More chunk.

And surprisingly, when I compare to Ermz' stuff on his site (referenced above) there's room for _more_ lower mids on your mix, or at least less on the upper end of the guitars. Could be a little darker overall IMO.

Really good though.

Good job.

Ted

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #106932 is a reply to message #106931]

Thu, 09 February 2012 03:49

dnafe

Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009

Senior Member

I agree with Ted, particularly about adding some beef, oomph. etc

[Updated on: Thu, 09 February 2012 03:50]

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #110197 is a reply to message #106920]

Thu, 14 September 2023 00:16

MaybeImAmazed

Messages: 14
Registered: February 2018
Location: USA

Junior Member

Ted, did you ever get the Alpha Link running over ADAT without all the pops and clicks? I got a good deal on a MADI-AX running v2.5 firmware, but can't get it to not pop and click and I've also tried all sorts of different WC configurations. It stayed quiet for a few minutes tonight but then started popping again.

[Updated on: Thu, 14 September 2023 00:17]

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #110198 is a reply to message #110197]

Thu, 14 September 2023 23:09

MaybeImAmazed

Messages: 14
Registered: February 2018
Location: USA

Junior Member

After hours of trying seemingly endless combinations and just about giving up, I found a way to make these two work together. I might be the last person to ever care about the Alpha-Link/Paris combo, but I'll share my solution anyway.

Firstly, on your Alpha set all 8 settings in Option Switch 1 to off. Same with Option Switch 2 (you might want to alter settings 1&2 here if it fits your ADAT channels choice - see the manual). These switch changes aren't committed until you press the Sample Rate and Clock buttons at the same time, by the way (didn't see that in the manual).

On the Alpha, set ADAT Input to Analog Output, and Analog Input to ADAT Output. That part is pretty obvious, but it can take some fiddling to get the settings to stick (if I remember right I had to have the MEC on for the ADAT Input setting to stick - something like that).

Connect a 48kHz master clock into the wordclock in on the Alpha and connect the Alpha's wordclock out to to the wordclock in on the Paris MEC. Set the Alpha's Clock to Ext and set Paris Sync Source to Wordclock and they'll sync at 48Khz (but not cleanly yet).

Now set the Alpha's Clock to ADAT. At this point you will probably have to set Paris Sync Source to Internal and then back to Wordclock. You can turn off the external master clock now if you want because it has sadly done its duty (Big Ben or whatever is a doorstop at this point of the configuration). You'll notice that even though the Alpha is synced to ADAT, no Sample Rate is lit up for some odd reason (the Paris will show 48kHz though). It's a strange way to mate these two, but it should be working pretty cleanly for you now.

I still get the very occasional pop, but nothing like it was. Also seems to only happen when it's quiet (I haven't listened closely enough yet to determine if that's completely true). The pops when they do happen aren't as loud either. I wish it was perfect, but I can play a passage without it popping.

I tried just about every other combination starting with direct wordclock connections to the Alpha and MEC from Big Ben, and then daisy chaining with tees and different termination settings, etc etc. This combination is the only way I've gotten it to work without constant popping.

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #110199 is a reply to message #110198]

Mon, 02 October 2023 18:30

Ted Gerber

Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009

Senior Member

Hey thanks for the description! I did not pursue the SSL Alpha Link at that time. I was a dealer and it was a demo unit on loan, so I returned it.
I used either the Focusrite 428 with AD option card feeding the MEC or the Metric Halo ULN-8 doing the same.
In the end, I would just use the MH unit or an Allen Heath Avantis that I have access to for capture, and bypass Paris converters.

However - after listening to Will the Weirdo (and older Paris recordings of mine done years ago) I think the Paris converters are still fantastic, esp when clocked to a good external unit.
I may resurrect that option again in the future...

Sorry for the slow response. I only pop on here once a month or so : )

Best

Ted

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Re: Typical Paris sound? [message #110220 is a reply to message #110199]

Fri, 13 October 2023 05:45

danielcornelius

Messages: 171
Registered: May 2012

Senior Member

These days, i try to go back to Paris again. It sounds on its own way.
If i have my production ready i will wrire you again here !

Best Regards
Dan

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