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| Re: Anyone using K-metering ? [message #91056 is a reply to message #91050] |
Sat, 06 October 2007 09:49   |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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I use it all the time - it's really designed to train your ears to hear max
levels without over doing it, once you set your monitors to a reference
level. Once you know what those reference levels are, you could setup your
DAW's metering to correspond (at least you can in Nuendo simply by changing
the green, yellow, red bands to correspond to whichever you are using for a
project) - or you could just adjust your ears to hear -20, -14, or -12 as
your "0" line (the idea behind the metering).
I use K-20 for film mixes, K-20/K-14 for DVD usually, with my monitors setup
to adjust for 3 different SPL reference levels (85dBC for film). The key
though is setting up your monitors to a reference level so loud does sound
loud and you just don't want to go there as often as the current radio wars
suggest. K metering gives you a visual reference to what is -12dBFS,
-14dBFS, -20dbFS, etc as your SPL reference point.
RME's Digicheck has K metering and is extremely valuable. Inspector XL
(Roger Nichols) also has K system.
Regards,
Dedric
On 10/6/07 9:53 AM, in article 4707af70@linux, "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
> This sounds really interesting. I'm gonna try K-14 metering. Apparently
> once you set it up you can just use your ears and forget the meters. I read
> all the threads and it makes total sense to me.
>
> Notes from the thread (least confusing)
> http://pastebin.com/m4a6148d6
>
> The long thread (more confusing)
> http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/64536-anyone- using-k-14-meterin
> g.html
>
> More confusing:
> http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-2-includ es-the-k-system.ht
> ml
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| Re: Anyone using K-metering ? [message #91075 is a reply to message #91074] |
Sat, 06 October 2007 12:26 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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My suggestion would be to use a separate K-system metering since your output
buss in Cubase will be used for bounces.
But, if you want Cubase's metering to correspond to K-14 just to try it, set
green max (yellow min) to -14dBFS, and yellow max to red min at -10dBFS. Of
course these are just giving you peak levels and for it to be accurate, it
must be correlated to 83db SPL in your monitors, C weighted using pink noise
(and pink noise full bandwidth is different from band limited and there are
discrepancies in what is considered the most accurate - e.g. Blue Sky's spec
vs. Dolby, etc).
More later... gotta run take the kids to soccer...:-)
Dedric
On 10/6/07 1:23 PM, in article 4707e0cc$1@linux, "John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
> Great reply. Thanks, so what do you set the bands in Cubase/Nuendo to? What
> do you set the green/yellow/red values to?
>
> Thanks again,
> John
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| Re: Anyone using K-metering ? [message #91144 is a reply to message #91131] |
Mon, 08 October 2007 11:06 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:470a1f2e$1@linux...
>
> Thanks Dedric, I setup the K-14 using the -20dB pink noise file from Bob
> Katz site with +6dB trim added to it. I set one monitor to 83dB and
> together
> they measured 85 for two monitors. When you add two monitors is it 2dB or
> 3dB? I always read 3dB but the measurement is showing 2dB rise for a 2nd
> monitor.
The sum is between two monitors may depend on placement, reflections,
etc, but yes, it would be 3dB in most cases, measured at the center mix
position.
>
> My understanding of the metering system is that you really don't need to
> use the meters because it will be too loud if you get anywhere near
> clipping.
> That's where I'm confused because 85dB average signal is not LOUD it's
> just
> what I call medium loud. It's a great volume for monitoring but I'm not
> understanding the statements that it will be way too loud. I'm able to
> meter
The idea is that music that is, for example, -9dBFS average RMS, will sound
really loud in K-system.
Bob even recommends actually using K-20 even for pop. K-14 is fine until
the industry adopts a wider
dynamic range (in 5.1 K-20 is just right and sounds way better than
compressed stereo).
> out my mix on the K-14 metering system in my RME Digicheck and some other
> meters also so I know the level is correct. Since I'm doing pop music
> K-14
> makes sense to be using it but my understanding is that peaks will be at
> 99dB (+14dB from the 85) and that will be way too loud. Well...I'm
> getting
> my meters at 0dB on the K-14 meters and nothing is blowing me out of the
> room.
>
That sound about right. At 0dB on K-14, you are 14dB below 0dBFS. I also
assume you are using Digicheck for metering -
also be sure Digicheck is set for RMS levels, not peak. When you run the
pink noise test, with Digicheck set for
RMS (ASIO outputs, not hardware), the pink noise test should register 0dB on
both channels (with your master buss at 0,
Control Room at 0, Totalmix at 0 on the ASIO channels,, and whatever level
is needed on the output channels along with your outboard monitor gain).
Put on something like No Doubt's Rock Steady CD, or anything with an average
RMS of
-9 to -11dB - it should sound too loud when monitoring with 83 db SPL (esp.
at K-20)(The average rms is -9 to -8.5dBFS on most songs on Rock Steady).
But I would advise starting with a lower monitor level, and working up to
your 83db reference to see how loud it really sounds - it will be well over
83db - probably around 95-100db SPL.
The idea is to get us out of the loudness mindset and back to mixing with
dynamic range, and hearing subtle, quieter detail in the process without the
ear fatigue that is associated with mixing for high average rms levels.
With rock/pop, you want your average
levels around 0 on K-14 with some pushing yellow, but few peaks in the red.
You shouldn't have any levels sitting in the red with
K-14, but guaranteed, most over compressed pop CDs will sit in the red.
Regards,
Dedric
> hmmmm
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
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| Re: Anyone using K-metering ? [message #91146 is a reply to message #91144] |
Mon, 08 October 2007 11:50 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Dedric, Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. This is really important
for me because otherwise I just keep turning it up and up and up till it
all sounds loud and nothing else.
Thanks !
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