Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet?
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77562 is a reply to message #77561] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 06:09   |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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This is a Project card. The reverb is excellent as is the Vinco. =
..Opimqaster and PysQ are good mastering tools, IMO, but then again, so =
are the UA mastering tools. That reverb is going to burn through a bit =
of DSP resources, but it's every bit as good as many hardware units I've =
heard. If someone was looking for a reverb and it was the choice between =
this and a standalone box of some sort, this card, be a contencer ,just =
for the reverb..
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote in message =
news:4594ba78@linux...
Hi Aaron,
I have the Pro card which includes the FX bundle. I've been tweaking =
my system
without listening up to this point. I think within one week I'll =
finally
have it installed to replace the old AMD 1.4. That's when the true =
testing
will come into play.
Based on what Dimitrios, Thad and Neil have said I will take the FX =
plugins with a grain
of salt to see if they were worth the extra cash. I like the UAD, =
some Paris plugs
and a few natives alot. If these compliment those that's great. I =
really needed the Pro card=20
for it's hardware and soft synths. =20
I'll report back when I have something valuable to add.
Tom
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message =
news:45949c8d$1@linux...
http://scope.creamware.de/scope_fx.htm
will be very interested to hear about it if so
AA=20
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is a Project card. The reverb is =
excellent as=20
is the Vinco. .Opimqaster and PysQ are good mastering tools, IMO, but =
then=20
again, so are the UA mastering tools. That reverb is going to burn =
through a bit=20
of DSP resources, but it's every bit as good as many hardware units I've =
heard.=20
If someone was looking for a reverb and it was the choice between this =
and a=20
standalone box of some sort, this card, be a contencer ,just for the=20
reverb..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Tom Bruhl" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:arpegio@comcast.net">arpegio@comcast.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A href=3D"news:4594ba78@linux">news:4594ba78@linux</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Aaron,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the Pro card which =
includes the FX=20
bundle. I've been tweaking my system</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>without listening up to this =
point. I think=20
within one week I'll finally</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>have it installed to replace the old =
AMD=20
1.4. That's when the true testing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>will come into play.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Based on what Dimitrios, Thad and =
Neil have said=20
I will take the FX plugins with a grain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of salt to see if they were worth the =
extra=20
cash. I like the UAD, some Paris plugs</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and a few natives alot. If =
these compliment=20
those that's great. I really needed the Pro card </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>it's hardware=20
and soft synths. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll report back when I have =
something valuable=20
to add.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Aaron Allen" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude">know-spam@not_here.dude</A>> =
wrote=20
in message <A=20
href=3D"news:45949c8d$1@linux">news:45949c8d$1@linux</A>...</DIV><A=20
=
href=3D"http://scope.creamware.de/scope_fx.htm">http://scope.creamware.de=
/scope_fx.htm</A><BR><BR>will=20
be very interested to hear about it if so<BR><BR><BR>AA =
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR><BR>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, =
and=20
you?<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html">http://www.polesoft.com/refer=
..html</A> </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE ></BODY></HTML>
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77563 is a reply to message #77561] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 07:46 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
exaggerating a bit).
Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
*MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
*Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
would be the one to use).
*Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
one's not a bad clone at all.
*PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
*Surroundmixer STM-48s
*Production Mixer STM-2448
*Inline Mixer STM-1632
(OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
or sum - anything!
See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
& you wanted to run each channel individually through the
Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
can do this, too.
*MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
sounds much different or not)
*Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
*Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
(OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
*Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
& Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
Neil
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77587 is a reply to message #77563] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 18:44 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
swappable.
So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
same way & do the same things).
2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
& the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
choices metioned above:
1.) Which card do you want?
a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
a MIDI i/o on that card.
If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
to choose between the following i/o options
a.) "Classic i/o"
b.) "Plus i/o"
c.) "Z-link i/o"
Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
work with one of THESE:
http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
To sum it all up:
If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
Neil
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77588 is a reply to message #77587] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 18:09 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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I'm now the proud 'toe in the water' owner of a Pulsar II running Scope 3.1
with 3 (shows 4 in scope meter though?) DSP chips and using the 'classic'
interface.. LOL
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4595c47c$1@linux...
>
> OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
> their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>
> First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
> Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
> nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
> Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
> one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
> so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
> swappable.
>
> So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>
> 1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
> DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
> same way & do the same things).
> 2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
> chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
> & the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
> options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
> 3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
> you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
> Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
> if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
> know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
> between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>
> Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
> choices metioned above:
>
> 1.) Which card do you want?
> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>
> For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
> II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
> are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
> FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
> that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>
> 2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>
> If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
> says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
> maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
> can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
> a MIDI i/o on that card.
>
> If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
> to choose between the following i/o options
>
> a.) "Classic i/o"
> b.) "Plus i/o"
> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>
> Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
> them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>
> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>
> The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>
> NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
> hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
> analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
> have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
> of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
> work with one of THESE:
>
> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>
>
> They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
> through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
> basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>
> To sum it all up:
> If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
> even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
> away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
> birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
> 6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
> for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
> to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
> would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
> just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
> the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
> Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
> with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
> Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
> to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>
> Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
> said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
> should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>
>
> Neil
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77591 is a reply to message #77587] |
Fri, 29 December 2006 19:57 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Neil,
That is one of my favorite ng posts EVER.
Chuck
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>
>First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>swappable.
>
>So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>
>1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>same way & do the same things).
>2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>& the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>
>Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>choices metioned above:
>
>1.) Which card do you want?
> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>
>For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>
>2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>
>If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>a MIDI i/o on that card.
>
>If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>to choose between the following i/o options
>
> a.) "Classic i/o"
> b.) "Plus i/o"
> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>
>Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>
> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>
>The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>
>NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>work with one of THESE:
>
>http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>
>
>They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>
>To sum it all up:
>If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>
>Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>
>
>Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77594 is a reply to message #77591] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 00:12 |
IOOIU
Messages: 13
Registered: December 2006
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Well thanks, Chuckster; but I must ask why is it one of your
favorites?
I mean, it's just a summary of some stuff that was (I thought)
confusing, and that I was trying to make clearer for the peeps,
since I know some folks here have had some questions on this
Pulsar kit.
Neil
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Neil,
>
>That is one of my favorite ng posts EVER.
>
>Chuck
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>>their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>
>>First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>>Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>>nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>>Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>>one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>>so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>>swappable.
>>
>>So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>
>>1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>>DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>>same way & do the same things).
>>2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>>chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>>& the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>>options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>>3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>>you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>>Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>>if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>>know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>>between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>
>>Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>>choices metioned above:
>>
>>1.) Which card do you want?
>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>
>>For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>>II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>>are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>>FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>>that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>
>>2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>
>>If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>>says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>>maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>>can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>>a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>
>>If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>>to choose between the following i/o options
>>
>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>
>>Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>>them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>
>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>
>>The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>
>>NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>>hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>>analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>>have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>>of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>>work with one of THESE:
>>
>>http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>
>>
>>They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>>through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>>basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>
>>To sum it all up:
>>If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>>even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>>away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>>birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>>6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>>for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>>to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>>would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>>just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>>the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>>Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>>with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>>Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>>to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>
>>Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>>said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>>should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>
>>
>>Neil
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77598 is a reply to message #77594] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 06:44 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Neil,
Take a step back and read your post as if you were someone interested in
purchasing a pulsar system.
There is a ton of useful information in your post, and the style is pretty
damn funny in my opinion.
It reminds me of the good old days :-)
Chuck
"Neil;" <IOOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Well thanks, Chuckster; but I must ask why is it one of your
>favorites?
>I mean, it's just a summary of some stuff that was (I thought)
>confusing, and that I was trying to make clearer for the peeps,
>since I know some folks here have had some questions on this
>Pulsar kit.
>
>Neil
>
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>Neil,
>>
>>That is one of my favorite ng posts EVER.
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>>>their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>>
>>>First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>>>Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>>>nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>>>Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>>>one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>>>so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>>>swappable.
>>>
>>>So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>>
>>>1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>>>DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>>>same way & do the same things).
>>>2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>>>chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>>>& the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>>>options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>>>3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>>>you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>>>Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>>>if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>>>know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>>>between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>>
>>>Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>>>choices metioned above:
>>>
>>>1.) Which card do you want?
>>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>>
>>>For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>>>II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>>>are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>>>FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>>>that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>>
>>>2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>>
>>>If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>>>says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>>>maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>>>can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>>>a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>>
>>>If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>>>to choose between the following i/o options
>>>
>>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>>
>>>Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>>>them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>>
>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>>
>>>The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>>
>>>NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>>>hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>>>analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>>>have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>>>of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>>>work with one of THESE:
>>>
>>>http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>>
>>>
>>>They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>>>through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>>>basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>>
>>>To sum it all up:
>>>If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>>>even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>>>away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>>>birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>>>6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>>>for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>>>to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>>>would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>>>just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>>>the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>>>Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>>>with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>>>Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>>>to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>>
>>>Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>>>said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>>>should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>>
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77610 is a reply to message #77598] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 08:18 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I gotta go with Chuck on this one too Neil, great post for the same reasons
he mentions.
AA
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45966d22$1@linux...
>
> Hi Neil,
>
> Take a step back and read your post as if you were someone interested in
> purchasing a pulsar system.
>
> There is a ton of useful information in your post, and the style is pretty
> damn funny in my opinion.
>
> It reminds me of the good old days :-)
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> "Neil;" <IOOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>Well thanks, Chuckster; but I must ask why is it one of your
>>favorites?
>>I mean, it's just a summary of some stuff that was (I thought)
>>confusing, and that I was trying to make clearer for the peeps,
>>since I know some folks here have had some questions on this
>>Pulsar kit.
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Neil,
>>>
>>>That is one of my favorite ng posts EVER.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>>>>their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>>>
>>>>First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>>>>Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>>>>nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>>>>Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>>>>one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>>>>so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>>>>swappable.
>>>>
>>>>So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>>>
>>>>1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>>>>DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>>>>same way & do the same things).
>>>>2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>>>>chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>>>>& the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>>>>options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>>>>3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>>>>you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>>>>Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>>>>if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>>>>know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>>>>between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>>>
>>>>Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>>>>choices metioned above:
>>>>
>>>>1.) Which card do you want?
>>>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>>>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>>>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>>>
>>>>For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>>>>II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>>>>are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>>>>FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>>>>that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>>>
>>>>2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>>>
>>>>If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>>>>says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>>>>maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>>>>can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>>>>a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>>>
>>>>If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>>>>to choose between the following i/o options
>>>>
>>>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>>>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>>>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>>>
>>>>Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>>>>them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>>>
>>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>>>
>>>>The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>>>
>>>>NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>>>>hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>>>>analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>>>>have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>>>>of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>>>>work with one of THESE:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>>>>through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>>>>basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>>>
>>>>To sum it all up:
>>>>If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>>>>even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>>>>away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>>>>birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>>>>6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>>>>for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>>>>to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>>>>would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>>>>just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>>>>the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>>>>Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>>>>with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>>>>Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>>>>to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>>>
>>>>Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>>>>said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>>>>should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77618 is a reply to message #77610] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 09:37 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
OK, well... cool - and thanks. Just trying to be helpful.
Heck, I figure if I was confused, and my IQ is AT LEAST 75 or
80, then probably some other people were, too. lol
Neil
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>I gotta go with Chuck on this one too Neil, great post for the same reasons
>he mentions.
>AA
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45966d22$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi Neil,
>>
>> Take a step back and read your post as if you were someone interested
in
>> purchasing a pulsar system.
>>
>> There is a ton of useful information in your post, and the style is pretty
>> damn funny in my opinion.
>>
>> It reminds me of the good old days :-)
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Neil;" <IOOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Well thanks, Chuckster; but I must ask why is it one of your
>>>favorites?
>>>I mean, it's just a summary of some stuff that was (I thought)
>>>confusing, and that I was trying to make clearer for the peeps,
>>>since I know some folks here have had some questions on this
>>>Pulsar kit.
>>>
>>>Neil
>>>
>>>
>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Neil,
>>>>
>>>>That is one of my favorite ng posts EVER.
>>>>
>>>>Chuck
>>>>
>>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>>>>>their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>>>>
>>>>>First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>>>>>Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>>>>>nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>>>>>Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>>>>>one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>>>>>so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>>>>>swappable.
>>>>>
>>>>>So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>>>>>DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>>>>>same way & do the same things).
>>>>>2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>>>>>chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>>>>>& the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>>>>>options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>>>>>3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>>>>>you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>>>>>Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>>>>>if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>>>>>know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>>>>>between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>>>>>choices metioned above:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.) Which card do you want?
>>>>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>>>>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>>>>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>>>>
>>>>>For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>>>>>II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>>>>>are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>>>>>FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>>>>>that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>>>>
>>>>>2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>>>>
>>>>>If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>>>>>says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>>>>>maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>>>>>can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>>>>>a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>>>>>to choose between the following i/o options
>>>>>
>>>>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>>>>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>>>>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>>>>>them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>>>>
>>>>>The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>>>>
>>>>>NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>>>>>hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>>>>>analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>>>>>have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>>>>>of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>>>>>work with one of THESE:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>>>>>through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>>>>>basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>>>>
>>>>>To sum it all up:
>>>>>If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>>>>>even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>>>>>away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>>>>>birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>>>>>6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>>>>>for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>>>>>to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>>>>>would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>>>>>just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>>>>>the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>>>>>Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>>>>>with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>>>>>Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>>>>>to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>>>>
>>>>>Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>>>>>said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>>>>>should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77621 is a reply to message #77587] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 09:09 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Home card has a 2 x ADAT I/O daughterboard so add X16 ADAT I/O.
Deej
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4595c47c$1@linux...
>
> OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
> their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>
> First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
> Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
> nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
> Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
> one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
> so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
> swappable.
>
> So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>
> 1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
> DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
> same way & do the same things).
> 2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
> chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
> & the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
> options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
> 3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
> you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
> Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
> if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
> know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
> between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>
> Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
> choices metioned above:
>
> 1.) Which card do you want?
> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>
> For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
> II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
> are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
> FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
> that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>
> 2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>
> If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
> says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
> maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
> can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
> a MIDI i/o on that card.
>
> If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
> to choose between the following i/o options
>
> a.) "Classic i/o"
> b.) "Plus i/o"
> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>
> Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
> them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>
> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>
> The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>
> NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
> hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
> analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
> have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
> of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
> work with one of THESE:
>
> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>
>
> They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
> through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
> basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>
> To sum it all up:
> If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
> even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
> away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
> birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
> 6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
> for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
> to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
> would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
> just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
> the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
> Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
> with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
> Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
> to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>
> Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
> said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
> should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>
>
> Neil
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77622 is a reply to message #77621] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 10:05 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That comes with it for that price, or is that an extender card
that you can buy separately?
Neil
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>Home card has a 2 x ADAT I/O daughterboard so add X16 ADAT I/O.
>
>Deej
>
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4595c47c$1@linux...
>>
>> OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>> their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>
>> First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>> Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>> nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>> Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>> one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>> so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>> swappable.
>>
>> So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>
>> 1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>> DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>> same way & do the same things).
>> 2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>> chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>> & the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>> options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>> 3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>> you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>> Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>> if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>> know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>> between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>
>> Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>> choices metioned above:
>>
>> 1.) Which card do you want?
>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>
>> For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>> II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>> are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>> FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>> that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>
>> 2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>
>> If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>> says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>> maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>> can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>> a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>
>> If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>> to choose between the following i/o options
>>
>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>
>> Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>> them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>
>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>
>> The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>
>> NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>> hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>> analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>> have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>> of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>> work with one of THESE:
>>
>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>
>>
>> They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>> through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>> basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>
>> To sum it all up:
>> If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>> even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>> away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>> birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>> 6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>> for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>> to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>> would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>> just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>> the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>> Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>> with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>> Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>> to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>
>> Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>> said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>> should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>
>>
>> Neil
>
>
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77628 is a reply to message #77563] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 10:01 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Neil,
Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now
here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at
the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots
of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that respect,
there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor counts.
It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that 30
DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same thing
with the Soundscape system.
Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to
need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT and
Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform. I've
got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock plugins for
this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that came
with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried the
deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent offerings that
were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be excellent
stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, the DSP
resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going Pro
would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as relates to
working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as
a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode
which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum
in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein
with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar to the
Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX processor
interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts and
auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got two
modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does a
nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as well
because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's and
they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good
account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on
Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1
scenario.
You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have been
met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular Paris
summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio platform
I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a stable
platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options
than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I
really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins
are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might..
In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO.
The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope platform to
be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that I was
getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of
admission.
Cheers,
;o)
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>
> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>
> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
> exaggerating a bit).
>
> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>
>
> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>
> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
> would be the one to use).
>
> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
> one's not a bad clone at all.
>
> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>
>
> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
> *Production Mixer STM-2448
> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
> or sum - anything!
> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>
> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
> can do this, too.
>
> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
> sounds much different or not)
>
> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>
> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>
> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>
> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>
> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>
>
> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>
>
> Neil
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77629 is a reply to message #77622] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 10:02 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It's part of the deal.
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45969c70$1@linux...
>
> That comes with it for that price, or is that an extender card
> that you can buy separately?
>
> Neil
>
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>Home card has a 2 x ADAT I/O daughterboard so add X16 ADAT I/O.
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4595c47c$1@linux...
>>>
>>> OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>>> their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>>
>>> First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>>> Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>>> nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>>> Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>>> one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>>> so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>>> swappable.
>>>
>>> So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>>
>>> 1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>>> DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>>> same way & do the same things).
>>> 2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>>> chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>>> & the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>>> options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>>> 3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>>> you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>>> Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>>> if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>>> know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>>> between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>>
>>> Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>>> choices metioned above:
>>>
>>> 1.) Which card do you want?
>>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>>
>>> For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>>> II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>>> are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>>> FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>>> that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>>
>>> 2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>>
>>> If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>>> says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>>> maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>>> can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>>> a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>>
>>> If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>>> to choose between the following i/o options
>>>
>>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>>
>>> Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>>> them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>>
>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>>
>>> The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>>
>>> NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>>> hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>>> analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>>> have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>>> of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>>> work with one of THESE:
>>>
>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>>
>>>
>>> They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>>> through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>>> basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>>
>>> To sum it all up:
>>> If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>>> even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>>> away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>>> birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>>> 6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>>> for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>>> to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>>> would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>>> just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>>> the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>>> Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>>> with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>>> Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>>> to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>>
>>> Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>>> said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>>> should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>>
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77638 is a reply to message #77628] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 10:56 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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I previously posted.............
>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
sum=20
in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
wherein <
this should read .......
Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
sum=20
in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
wherein .yadda yadda.......
Deej
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
> Neil,
>=20
> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. =
Now=20
> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>=20
> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. =
Look at=20
> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run =
lots=20
> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
respect,=20
> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor =
counts.=20
> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that =
30=20
> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
thing=20
> with the Soundscape system.
>=20
> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going =
to=20
> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with =
PT and=20
> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform. =
I've=20
> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
plugins for=20
> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
came=20
> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
the=20
> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
offerings that=20
> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
excellent=20
> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
the DSP=20
> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
Pro=20
> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
>=20
> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
relates to=20
> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
either as=20
> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC =
mode=20
> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
sum=20
> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
wherein=20
> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar =
to the=20
> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>=20
> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
processor=20
> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
and=20
> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got =
two=20
> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does =
a=20
> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
well=20
> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's =
and=20
> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
good=20
> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
plugins on=20
> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" =
UAD-1=20
> scenario.
>=20
> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have =
been=20
> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
Paris=20
> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
platform=20
> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
stable=20
> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
options=20
> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
me. I=20
> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
plugins=20
> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just =
might..=20
> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket =
IMO.=20
> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
platform to=20
> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that =
I was=20
> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
> admission.
>=20
> Cheers,
> ;o)
>=20
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>
>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>
>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>> exaggerating a bit).
>>
>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>
>>
>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>
>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>> would be the one to use).
>>
>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>
>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>
>>
>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>> or sum - anything!
>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>
>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>> can do this, too.
>>
>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>> sounds much different or not)
>>
>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>
>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>
>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>
>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>
>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>
>>
>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>
>>
>> Neil=20
>=20
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
posted.............</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
<BR>which=20
negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
<BR>in=20
Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein =
<</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
<BR>which=20
negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
<BR>in=20
Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
work "in=20
series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
wrote in=20
message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
<BR>> Great=20
post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
<BR>>=20
here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
<BR>> the=20
limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots =
<BR>>=20
of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
respect,=20
<BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
processor=20
counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
PlanetZ=20
forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
mixing.=20
The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
Also,=20
before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
<BR>>=20
need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT =
and=20
<BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
platform.=20
I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
stock=20
plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
EDS=20
plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
better=20
(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
Skunkworks=20
subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
for=20
this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
and as you=20
have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
on the=20
Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
was=20
going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
you that=20
the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
native=20
audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
<BR>>=20
which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
sum=20
<BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
series"=20
wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
the=20
series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
(the=20
familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
as a=20
*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
S/Pdif I/O=20
on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
inordinate=20
amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
it's an=20
1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
some of=20
the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
comparisons=20
that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
API=20
sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
the=20
UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
auxes/inserts=20
may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
works=20
wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
most=20
stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
encountered. I was=20
going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
incredible=20
(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
plugins. the=20
plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
never=20
expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
are to my=20
liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
<BR>> In=20
the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO. =
<BR>>=20
The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
platform to=20
<BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
here that=20
I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
price=20
of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
in message=20
</FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
thing as their=20
"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
another=20
problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
different=20
names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
their=20
marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
rename=20
their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
exact=20
same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
Pack, and=20
IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
are total=20
crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
some=20
don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
wonder:=20
"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
mentioned=20
that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
it=20
does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
Aaron, what=20
they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
of the=20
page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
ain't=20
exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
it in=20
the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
but it=20
sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
like=20
Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
It's not=20
as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
section (or=20
a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
it sounds=20
pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
totally=20
incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
get it=20
there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
avoid=20
overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
all of=20
the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
using=20
this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
things=20
a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
&=20
clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
then=20
this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
*Vinco=20
Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
far as I=20
can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
an 1176,=20
but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
found the=20
'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
lust=20
after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
a stereo=20
spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
thing=20
has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
the=20
hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
killer=20
stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
instead.=20
It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
STM-48s<BR>>>=20
*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
MIXERS, one=20
of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
able to=20
route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
sum -=20
anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
this... you=20
drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
smallest=20
mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
more=20
DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
and in a=20
very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
coming=20
from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
it=20
could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
were=20
running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
36-channel mix=20
going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
through=20
the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
do=20
a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
"1632"=20
mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
so=20
you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
signal to=20
go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
into=20
your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
Masterlink, and=20
also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
once?=20
You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
Classic=20
(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
but=20
without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
with it=20
enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
or=20
attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
if it's=20
not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
LowCut=20
Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
these are=20
all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
they=20
make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
for=20
example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
would=20
be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
phat=20
Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
it=20
even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
Phaser,=20
Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
Dither/Shaper,=20
Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
but most=20
of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
mold, in=20
the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
like=20
crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
algos=20
out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
up into=20
a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
tell=20
(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
what you'd=20
get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
software=20
option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
DSP=20
chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
Thad got=20
a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
the=20
Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
(which I=20
know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
- will=20
fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
of the=20
cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
their own=20
literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
from=20
later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C72C09.8CEB30E0--
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77640 is a reply to message #77622] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 11:04 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My card has 2 adat ports and a breakout snake (2x RCA I/O's, Spdif rca I/O,
midi in/out/thru).
AA
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45969c70$1@linux...
>
> That comes with it for that price, or is that an extender card
> that you can buy separately?
>
> Neil
>
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>Home card has a 2 x ADAT I/O daughterboard so add X16 ADAT I/O.
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:4595c47c$1@linux...
>>>
>>> OK, now as promised I'll continue where I left off: Clarifying
>>> their product nomenclatures & i/o options...
>>>
>>> First of all, the question I had was: "Is it Creamware, is it
>>> Scope, or is it Pulsar?" These guys have a marketing/branding
>>> nightmare going on, really. I guess I started calling it
>>> Pulsar, because two of the cards bear (or BORE) that name. No
>>> one on the Pulsar forum corrected me or was confused by this,
>>> so I guess the terms are more or less swappable. Confusing, but
>>> swappable.
>>>
>>> So you basically have three sets of choices to make:
>>>
>>> 1.) Which card you want (which basically means ONLY "how much
>>> DSP power do you want?", because all the cards interface the
>>> same way & do the same things).
>>> 2.) Which i/o options you want with the card you chose, IF you
>>> chose something besides the entry-level card? (the Project card
>>> & the Professional Card can take any of the three i/o
>>> options- I'll fill in more in this regard shortly)
>>> 3.) Which software pack do you want included with the card, IF
>>> you bought either the Project or Pro Cards? Mix & Master, or
>>> Synths & Samplers? (While there is currently a special wherein
>>> if you buy the big card you get both packs included, I don't
>>> know how long this will going on - normally this a choice
>>> between one & the other on these two cards, as I understand it.
>>>
>>> Now, going into further detail for each of the three sets of
>>> choices metioned above:
>>>
>>> 1.) Which card do you want?
>>> a.) "Home" Card? (~$450, and has 3 DSP chips)
>>> b.) "Project" Card ($~750, and has 6 DSP chips)
>>> c.) "Professional" card (~$1,250 and has 14 DSP chips)
>>>
>>> For the sake of less confusion, ignore the names LunaII, Pulsar
>>> II, and PowerPulsar that also show up on their websites... they
>>> are NOT different cards or card options! Those are simply the
>>> FORMER names of the Home, Project, and Professional cards, in
>>> that order (think Black Paris / Blue Paris lol).
>>>
>>> 2.) Which i/o setup do you want?
>>>
>>> If you get the "Home" Card, there's only one i/o setup... it
>>> says "up to 12" i/o's but I don't know where they get that -
>>> maybe that's if you add on an extender card, but from what I
>>> can tell it's just a stereo analog i/o & a stereo digital i/o &
>>> a MIDI i/o on that card.
>>>
>>> If you get either the {Project, or the Pro card, THEN you have
>>> to choose between the following i/o options
>>>
>>> a.) "Classic i/o"
>>> b.) "Plus i/o"
>>> c.) "Z-link i/o"
>>>
>>> Here's a link that gives you details on the differences between
>>> them (scroll down to the bottom half of that page):
>>>
>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/scope-cards/project/
>>>
>>> The i/o options are the same for the Project & Pro cards
>>>
>>> NOW... BE WARNED: the "Classic" & "Plus" i/o's can be used with
>>> hardware you (most likely) already have - it's straight-ahead
>>> analog & digiblah inzies & outsies, but the "Z-Link" has to
>>> have another piece of their hardware in order to make full use
>>> of the 28 total i/o's... the "Z-Link" i/o set is designed to
>>> work with one of THESE:
>>>
>>> http://www.infinitevortex.com/creamware/io/a16-ultra/
>>>
>>>
>>> They have more hardware like sync plates to clock externally
>>> through, and DSP booster cards with no i/o's, but those are the
>>> basic/foundation platforms & options I've listed above.
>>>
>>> To sum it all up:
>>> If you're going with just one card, my advice would be don't
>>> even fucking bother with the "Home" card - if you want to throw
>>> away 450 bucks, just send it to me and at least I'll send you a
>>> birthday & christmas card in return. In my experience with the
>>> 6-DSP Project card, the 3-DSP Home card won't do much at all
>>> for you - even at the lower sample rates... you MIGHT be able
>>> to sum a few channels & insert a couple of plugins, but that
>>> would be about the limit - ALSO, again if you're going with
>>> just one card (at least to start) the Plugins that come with
>>> the Home card are fairly scant... IOW, if you wanted the Mix &
>>> Master or Synths & Samplers pack & bought them separately along
>>> with a Home card, you'd be almost up the price of the 6-DSP
>>> Project card, which comes with your choice of either of those
>>> to begin with, plus has 3 more chips... see what I mean?
>>>
>>> Just make your first choice an educated one because like I've
>>> said, these people don't know their own product as well as they
>>> should, and also don't really stand behind it, either.
>>>
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77641 is a reply to message #77638] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 12:25 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Two things to add. First, and I know it's not your bag so you're not that
interested, but to repeat, Scope is a superb synthesis platform as well.
Second, I really wish XTC mode worked better, even if one wanted to run stems
to sum in the Scope mixer. For me, there is the composing/tracking/humming/screwing
around stage of making music and then the mixing/tweaking stage. The ability
to use XTC mode to start, then render the Scope tracks before 'serious' mixing
would be ideal. I know it's possible now but XTC mode is so shaky I'm not
sure it's worth the bother.
TCB
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>
>
>I previously posted.............
>
>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>sum=20
>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>wherein <
>
>this should read .......
>
>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>sum=20
>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
>wherein .yadda yadda.......
>
>Deej
>
>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
>> Neil,
>>=20
>> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing.
=
>Now=20
>> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>>=20
>> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. =
>Look at=20
>> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run
=
>lots=20
>> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>respect,=20
>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor =
>counts.=20
>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that
=
>30=20
>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
>thing=20
>> with the Soundscape system.
>>=20
>> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going
=
>to=20
>> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with =
>PT and=20
>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform.
=
>I've=20
>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
>plugins for=20
>> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
>came=20
>> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
>the=20
>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
>offerings that=20
>> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
>excellent=20
>> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
>the DSP=20
>> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
>Pro=20
>> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
>>=20
>> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
>relates to=20
>> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
>either as=20
>> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC
=
>mode=20
>> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
=
>sum=20
>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>wherein=20
>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar
=
>to the=20
>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>>=20
>> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
>processor=20
>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
>and=20
>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got
=
>two=20
>> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does
=
>a=20
>> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
>well=20
>> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's
=
>and=20
>> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
>good=20
>> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
>plugins on=20
>> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency"
=
>UAD-1=20
>> scenario.
>>=20
>> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have =
>been=20
>> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
>Paris=20
>> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
>platform=20
>> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
>stable=20
>> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
>options=20
>> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
>me. I=20
>> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
>plugins=20
>> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just =
>might..=20
>> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket =
>IMO.=20
>> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>platform to=20
>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that
=
>I was=20
>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
>> admission.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> ;o)
>>=20
>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>>
>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>>> exaggerating a bit).
>>>
>>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>>
>>>
>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>>
>>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>>> would be the one to use).
>>>
>>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>>
>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>>> or sum - anything!
>>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>>
>>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>>> can do this, too.
>>>
>>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>>> sounds much different or not)
>>>
>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>>
>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>>
>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>>
>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>>
>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>>
>>>
>>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>>
>>>
>>> Neil=20
>>=20
>>
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
>posted.............</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
><BR>which=20
>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
><BR>in=20
>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein
=
>
><</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
><BR>which=20
>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
><BR>in=20
>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
>work "in=20
>series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
>href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>wrote in=20
>message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
><BR>> Great=20
>post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
><BR>>=20
>here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
>proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
><BR>> the=20
>limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots =
><BR>>=20
>of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>respect,=20
><BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
>processor=20
>counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
>PlanetZ=20
>forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
>mixing.=20
>The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
>Also,=20
>before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
><BR>>=20
>need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT
=
>and=20
><BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
>platform.=20
>I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
>stock=20
>plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
>EDS=20
>plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
>better=20
>(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
>Skunkworks=20
>subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
>for=20
>this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
>and as you=20
>have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
>on the=20
>Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
>was=20
>going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
>you that=20
>the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
>native=20
>audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
>backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
><BR>>=20
>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>sum=20
><BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
>series"=20
>wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
>the=20
>series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
>(the=20
>familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
>as a=20
>*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
>S/Pdif I/O=20
>on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
>inordinate=20
>amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
>it's an=20
>1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
>some of=20
>the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
>comparisons=20
>that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
>API=20
>sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
>the=20
>UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
>auxes/inserts=20
>may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
>scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
>
>platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
>works=20
>wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
>most=20
>stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
>encountered. I was=20
>going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
>incredible=20
>(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
>plugins. the=20
>plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
>never=20
>expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
>are to my=20
>liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
><BR>> In=20
>the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO. =
><BR>>=20
>The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>platform to=20
><BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
>here that=20
>I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
>price=20
>of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
><BR>>=20
>"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
>in message=20
></FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
>thing as their=20
>"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
>another=20
>problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
>different=20
>names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
>their=20
>marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
>rename=20
>their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
>either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
>exact=20
>same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
>Pack, and=20
>IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
>are total=20
>crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
>some=20
>don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
>wonder:=20
>"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
>the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
>mentioned=20
>that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
>it=20
>does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
>
>haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
>were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
>Aaron, what=20
>they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
>of the=20
>page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
>ain't=20
>exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
>it in=20
>the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
>
>below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
>nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
>but it=20
>sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
>like=20
>Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
>Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
>It's not=20
>as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
>section (or=20
>a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
>it sounds=20
>pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
>totally=20
>incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
>get it=20
>there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
>avoid=20
>overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
>all of=20
>the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
>starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
>using=20
>this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
>things=20
>a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
>&=20
>clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
>then=20
>this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
>*Vinco=20
>Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
>far as I=20
>can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
>an 1176,=20
>but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
>found the=20
>'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
>lust=20
>after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
>all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
>a stereo=20
>spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
>thing=20
>has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
>the=20
>hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
>vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
>killer=20
>stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
>instead.=20
>It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
>B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
>STM-48s<BR>>>=20
>*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
>STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
>absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
>MIXERS, one=20
>of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
>able to=20
>route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
>sum -=20
>anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
>this... you=20
>drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
>
>from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
>smallest=20
>mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
>more=20
>DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
>represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
>and in a=20
>very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
>connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
>patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
>coming=20
>from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
>it=20
>could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
>were=20
>running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
>36-channel mix=20
>going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
>through=20
>the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
>do=20
>a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
>now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
>window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
>"1632"=20
>mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
>so=20
>you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
>channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
>signal to=20
>go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
>analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
>into=20
>your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
>
>the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
>monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
>Masterlink, and=20
>also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
>once?=20
>You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
>Classic=20
>(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
>but=20
>without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
>with it=20
>enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
>not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
>(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
>or=20
>attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
>if it's=20
>not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
>LowCut=20
>Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
>mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
>these are=20
>all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
>they=20
>make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
>conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
>for=20
>example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
>plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
>would=20
>be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
>phat=20
>Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
>
>here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
>it=20
>even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
>Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
>Phaser,=20
>Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
>Dither/Shaper,=20
>Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
>Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
>Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
>but most=20
>of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
>mold, in=20
>the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
>are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
>really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
>settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
>like=20
>crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
>algos=20
>out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
>presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
>above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
>Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
>up into=20
>a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
>and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
>that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
>tell=20
>(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
>what you'd=20
>get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
>software=20
>option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
>DSP=20
>chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
>Thad got=20
>a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
>with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
>the=20
>Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
>(which I=20
>know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
>bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
>- will=20
>fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
>of the=20
>cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
>their own=20
>literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
>from=20
>later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77642 is a reply to message #77641] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 11:47 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Shaky? Specifics bro, I'm trying to avoid the garden path currently.
AA
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:4596bd30$1@linux...
>
> Two things to add. First, and I know it's not your bag so you're not that
> interested, but to repeat, Scope is a superb synthesis platform as well.
> Second, I really wish XTC mode worked better, even if one wanted to run
> stems
> to sum in the Scope mixer. For me, there is the
> composing/tracking/humming/screwing
> around stage of making music and then the mixing/tweaking stage. The
> ability
> to use XTC mode to start, then render the Scope tracks before 'serious'
> mixing
> would be ideal. I know it's possible now but XTC mode is so shaky I'm not
> sure it's worth the bother.
>
> TCB
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I previously posted.............
>>
>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>sum=20
>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>wherein <
>>
>>this should read .......
>>
>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>sum=20
>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
>>wherein .yadda yadda.......
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
>>> Neil,
>>>=20
>>> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing.
> =
>>Now=20
>>> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>>>=20
>>> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. =
>>Look at=20
>>> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run
> =
>>lots=20
>>> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>respect,=20
>>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor =
>>counts.=20
>>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that
> =
>>30=20
>>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
>>thing=20
>>> with the Soundscape system.
>>>=20
>>> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going
> =
>>to=20
>>> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with =
>>PT and=20
>>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform.
> =
>>I've=20
>>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
>>plugins for=20
>>> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
>>came=20
>>> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
>>the=20
>>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
>>offerings that=20
>>> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
>>excellent=20
>>> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
>>the DSP=20
>>> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
>>Pro=20
>>> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
>>>=20
>>> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
>>relates to=20
>>> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
>>either as=20
>>> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC
> =
>>mode=20
>>> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
> =
>>sum=20
>>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>wherein=20
>>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar
> =
>>to the=20
>>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>>>=20
>>> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
>>processor=20
>>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
>>and=20
>>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got
> =
>>two=20
>>> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does
> =
>>a=20
>>> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
>>well=20
>>> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's
> =
>>and=20
>>> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
>>good=20
>>> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
>>plugins on=20
>>> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency"
> =
>>UAD-1=20
>>> scenario.
>>>=20
>>> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have =
>>been=20
>>> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
>>Paris=20
>>> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
>>platform=20
>>> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
>>stable=20
>>> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
>>options=20
>>> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
>>me. I=20
>>> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
>>plugins=20
>>> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just =
>>might..=20
>>> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket =
>>IMO.=20
>>> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>platform to=20
>>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that
> =
>>I was=20
>>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
>>> admission.
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>> ;o)
>>>=20
>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>>>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>>>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>>>> exaggerating a bit).
>>>>
>>>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>>>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>>>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>>>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>>>
>>>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>>>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>>>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>>>> would be the one to use).
>>>>
>>>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>>>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>>>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>>>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>>>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>>>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>>>
>>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>>>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>>>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>>>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>>>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>>>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>>>> or sum - anything!
>>>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>>>
>>>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>>>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>>>> can do this, too.
>>>>
>>>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>>>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>>>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>>>> sounds much different or not)
>>>>
>>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>>>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>>>
>>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>>>
>>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>>>
>>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>>>
>>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>>>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>>>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>>>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>>>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil=20
>>>=20
>>>
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
>>posted.............</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>><BR>which=20
>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>><BR>in=20
>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein
> =
>>
>><</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>><BR>which=20
>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>><BR>in=20
>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
>>work "in=20
>>series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>wrote in=20
>>message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
>><BR>> Great=20
>>post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
>><BR>>=20
>>here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
>>proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
>><BR>> the=20
>>limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots =
>><BR>>=20
>>of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>respect,=20
>><BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
>>processor=20
>>counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
>>PlanetZ=20
>>forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
>>mixing.=20
>>The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
>>Also,=20
>>before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
>><BR>>=20
>>need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT
> =
>>and=20
>><BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
>>platform.=20
>>I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
>>stock=20
>>plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
>>EDS=20
>>plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
>>better=20
>>(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
>>Skunkworks=20
>>subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
>>for=20
>>this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
>>and as you=20
>>have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
>>on the=20
>>Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
>>was=20
>>going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
>>you that=20
>>the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
>>native=20
>>audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
>>backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>><BR>>=20
>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>sum=20
>><BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
>>series"=20
>>wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
>>the=20
>>series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
>>(the=20
>>familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
>>as a=20
>>*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
>>S/Pdif I/O=20
>>on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
>>inordinate=20
>>amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
>>it's an=20
>>1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
>>some of=20
>>the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
>>comparisons=20
>>that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
>>API=20
>>sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
>>the=20
>>UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
>>auxes/inserts=20
>>may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
>>scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
>>
>>platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
>>works=20
>>wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
>>most=20
>>stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
>>encountered. I was=20
>>going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
>>incredible=20
>>(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
>>plugins. the=20
>>plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
>>never=20
>>expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
>>are to my=20
>>liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
>><BR>> In=20
>>the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO. =
>><BR>>=20
>>The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>platform to=20
>><BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
>>here that=20
>>I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
>>price=20
>>of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
>><BR>>=20
>>"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
>>in message=20
>></FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
>>thing as their=20
>>"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
>>another=20
>>problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
>>different=20
>>names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
>>their=20
>>marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
>>rename=20
>>their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
>>either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
>>exact=20
>>same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
>>Pack, and=20
>>IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
>>are total=20
>>crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
>>some=20
>>don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
>>wonder:=20
>>"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
>>the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
>>mentioned=20
>>that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
>>it=20
>>does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
>>
>>haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
>>were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
>>Aaron, what=20
>>they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
>>of the=20
>>page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
>>ain't=20
>>exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
>>it in=20
>>the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
>>
>>below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
>>nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
>>but it=20
>>sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
>>like=20
>>Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
>>Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
>>It's not=20
>>as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
>>section (or=20
>>a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
>>it sounds=20
>>pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
>>totally=20
>>incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
>>get it=20
>>there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
>>avoid=20
>>overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
>>all of=20
>>the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
>>starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
>>using=20
>>this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
>>things=20
>>a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
>>&=20
>>clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
>>then=20
>>this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
>>*Vinco=20
>>Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
>>far as I=20
>>can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
>>an 1176,=20
>>but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
>>found the=20
>>'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
>>lust=20
>>after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
>>all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
>>a stereo=20
>>spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
>>thing=20
>>has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
>>the=20
>>hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
>>vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
>>killer=20
>>stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
>>instead.=20
>>It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
>>B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
>>STM-48s<BR>>>=20
>>*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
>>STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
>>absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
>>MIXERS, one=20
>>of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
>>able to=20
>>route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
>>sum -=20
>>anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
>>this... you=20
>>drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
>>
>>from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
>>smallest=20
>>mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
>>more=20
>>DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
>>represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
>>and in a=20
>>very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
>>connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
>>patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
>>coming=20
>>from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
>>it=20
>>could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
>>were=20
>>running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
>>36-channel mix=20
>>going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
>>through=20
>>the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
>>do=20
>>a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
>>now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
>>window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
>>"1632"=20
>>mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
>>so=20
>>you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
>>channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
>>signal to=20
>>go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
>>analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
>>into=20
>>your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
>>
>>the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
>>monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
>>Masterlink, and=20
>>also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
>>once?=20
>>You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
>>Classic=20
>>(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
>>but=20
>>without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
>>with it=20
>>enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
>>not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
>>(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
>>or=20
>>attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
>>if it's=20
>>not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
>>LowCut=20
>>Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
>>mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
>>these are=20
>>all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
>>they=20
>>make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
>>conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
>>for=20
>>example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
>>plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
>>would=20
>>be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
>>phat=20
>>Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
>>
>>here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
>>it=20
>>even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
>>Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
>>Phaser,=20
>>Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
>>Dither/Shaper,=20
>>Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
>>Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
>>Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
>>but most=20
>>of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
>>mold, in=20
>>the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
>>are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
>>really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
>>settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
>>like=20
>>crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
>>algos=20
>>out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
>>presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
>>above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
>>Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
>>up into=20
>>a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
>>and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
>>that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
>>tell=20
>>(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
>>what you'd=20
>>get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
>>software=20
>>option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
>>DSP=20
>>chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
>>Thad got=20
>>a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
>>with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
>>the=20
>>Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
>>(which I=20
>>know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
>>bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
>>- will=20
>>fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
>>of the=20
>>cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
>>their own=20
>>literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
>>from=20
>>later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
>><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77643 is a reply to message #77641] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 12:12 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I've been sitting here mapping out my future tracking and mixdown platform.
It will be a two way street. I will keep my Pulsar cards where they are, in
my AMD 4400 x 2 system along with my VSTi's, all of which, with the
exception of the Steiny drum machine (whatever it's called) have standalone
GUIs .This system has 48 ADAT I/O, a stereo pair of s/pdif and a stereo pair
of AESI/O and 20 analog I/O (an A16U and an analog pair on two of the Pulsar
cards.
The other DAW will be happening on another DAW running aqn AMD 4800 x 2 CPU
with 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and an HDSP Multiface running Cubase 4 and 4 x
UAD-1 cards.
The 2 x 9652's will be lightpiped direct to the 48 I/O of the Pulsar cards
and their coax I/O will be patched directly to the Pulsar AES and spdif I/O
through a didital patchbay. The Multiface ADAT I/O will be interfaced with
an RME ADI4-DD which is patched into my 4X analog reverb processors. The
Multiface S/Pdif I/O will be patched directly to Mytek stereo 96 AD/DA's
through the digital patchbay.
Tracking will be done in Cubase with the Pulsar analog I/O routed digitally
via ADAT to the HDSP I/O and the Mytek I/O also being available to the Scope
system. The Multiface I/O being available directly in the Cubase rig. This
will give me 30 analog I/O during tracking sessions.........more then
enough.
Mixing will be done in Cubase with appropriate mono or stereo tracks as is
appropriate for the mix being bussed via lightpipe from the HDSP's to Pulsar
for summing.
This should hopefully allow for a nice *zero latency* tracking scenario,
similar to what can be achieved with Paris.........maybe, I hope..depending
on how the RME drivers behave. that's the big ?. The Pulsar drivers have put
the RME system to shame as far as operating at lower latencies but I have
heard that the newer RME betas have drastically improved this situation.
I've gotta try this. If I don't like it, I can repatch things fairly quickly
back to the situation I have now.
the quest continues....
;o)
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:4596bd30$1@linux...
>
> Two things to add. First, and I know it's not your bag so you're not that
> interested, but to repeat, Scope is a superb synthesis platform as well.
> Second, I really wish XTC mode worked better, even if one wanted to run
> stems
> to sum in the Scope mixer. For me, there is the
> composing/tracking/humming/screwing
> around stage of making music and then the mixing/tweaking stage. The
> ability
> to use XTC mode to start, then render the Scope tracks before 'serious'
> mixing
> would be ideal. I know it's possible now but XTC mode is so shaky I'm not
> sure it's worth the bother.
>
> TCB
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I previously posted.............
>>
>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>sum=20
>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>wherein <
>>
>>this should read .......
>>
>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>sum=20
>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
>>wherein .yadda yadda.......
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
>>> Neil,
>>>=20
>>> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing.
> =
>>Now=20
>>> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>>>=20
>>> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. =
>>Look at=20
>>> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run
> =
>>lots=20
>>> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>respect,=20
>>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor =
>>counts.=20
>>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that
> =
>>30=20
>>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
>>thing=20
>>> with the Soundscape system.
>>>=20
>>> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going
> =
>>to=20
>>> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with =
>>PT and=20
>>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform.
> =
>>I've=20
>>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
>>plugins for=20
>>> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
>>came=20
>>> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
>>the=20
>>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
>>offerings that=20
>>> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
>>excellent=20
>>> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
>>the DSP=20
>>> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
>>Pro=20
>>> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
>>>=20
>>> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
>>relates to=20
>>> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
>>either as=20
>>> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC
> =
>>mode=20
>>> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
> =
>>sum=20
>>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>wherein=20
>>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar
> =
>>to the=20
>>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>>>=20
>>> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
>>processor=20
>>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
>>and=20
>>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got
> =
>>two=20
>>> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does
> =
>>a=20
>>> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
>>well=20
>>> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's
> =
>>and=20
>>> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
>>good=20
>>> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
>>plugins on=20
>>> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency"
> =
>>UAD-1=20
>>> scenario.
>>>=20
>>> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have =
>>been=20
>>> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
>>Paris=20
>>> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
>>platform=20
>>> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
>>stable=20
>>> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
>>options=20
>>> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
>>me. I=20
>>> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
>>plugins=20
>>> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just =
>>might..=20
>>> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket =
>>IMO.=20
>>> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>platform to=20
>>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that
> =
>>I was=20
>>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
>>> admission.
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>> ;o)
>>>=20
>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>>>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>>>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>>>> exaggerating a bit).
>>>>
>>>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>>>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>>>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>>>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>>>
>>>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>>>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>>>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>>>> would be the one to use).
>>>>
>>>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>>>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>>>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>>>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>>>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>>>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>>>
>>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>>>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>>>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>>>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>>>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>>>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>>>> or sum - anything!
>>>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>>>
>>>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>>>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>>>> can do this, too.
>>>>
>>>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>>>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>>>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>>>> sounds much different or not)
>>>>
>>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>>>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>>>
>>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>>>
>>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>>>
>>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>>>
>>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>>>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>>>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>>>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>>>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil=20
>>>=20
>>>
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
>>posted.............</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>><BR>which=20
>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>><BR>in=20
>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein
> =
>>
>><</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>><BR>which=20
>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>><BR>in=20
>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
>>work "in=20
>>series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>wrote in=20
>>message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
>><BR>> Great=20
>>post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
>><BR>>=20
>>here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
>>proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
>><BR>> the=20
>>limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots =
>><BR>>=20
>>of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>respect,=20
>><BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
>>processor=20
>>counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
>>PlanetZ=20
>>forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
>>mixing.=20
>>The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
>>Also,=20
>>before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
>><BR>>=20
>>need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT
> =
>>and=20
>><BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
>>platform.=20
>>I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
>>stock=20
>>plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
>>EDS=20
>>plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
>>better=20
>>(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
>>Skunkworks=20
>>subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
>>for=20
>>this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
>>and as you=20
>>have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
>>on the=20
>>Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
>>was=20
>>going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
>>you that=20
>>the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
>>native=20
>>audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
>>backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>><BR>>=20
>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>sum=20
>><BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
>>series"=20
>>wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
>>the=20
>>series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
>>(the=20
>>familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
>>as a=20
>>*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
>>S/Pdif I/O=20
>>on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
>>inordinate=20
>>amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
>>it's an=20
>>1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
>>some of=20
>>the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
>>comparisons=20
>>that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
>>API=20
>>sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
>>the=20
>>UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
>>auxes/inserts=20
>>may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
>>scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
>>
>>platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
>>works=20
>>wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
>>most=20
>>stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
>>encountered. I was=20
>>going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
>>incredible=20
>>(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
>>plugins. the=20
>>plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
>>never=20
>>expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
>>are to my=20
>>liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
>><BR>> In=20
>>the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO. =
>><BR>>=20
>>The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>platform to=20
>><BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
>>here that=20
>>I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
>>price=20
>>of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
>><BR>>=20
>>"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
>>in message=20
>></FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
>>thing as their=20
>>"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
>>another=20
>>problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
>>different=20
>>names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
>>their=20
>>marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
>>rename=20
>>their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
>>either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
>>exact=20
>>same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
>>Pack, and=20
>>IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
>>are total=20
>>crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
>>some=20
>>don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
>>wonder:=20
>>"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
>>the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
>>mentioned=20
>>that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
>>it=20
>>does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
>>
>>haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
>>were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
>>Aaron, what=20
>>they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
>>of the=20
>>page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
>>ain't=20
>>exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
>>it in=20
>>the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
>>
>>below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
>>nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
>>but it=20
>>sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
>>like=20
>>Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
>>Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
>>It's not=20
>>as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
>>section (or=20
>>a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
>>it sounds=20
>>pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
>>totally=20
>>incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
>>get it=20
>>there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
>>avoid=20
>>overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
>>all of=20
>>the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
>>starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
>>using=20
>>this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
>>things=20
>>a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
>>&=20
>>clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
>>then=20
>>this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
>>*Vinco=20
>>Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
>>far as I=20
>>can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
>>an 1176,=20
>>but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
>>found the=20
>>'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
>>lust=20
>>after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
>>all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
>>a stereo=20
>>spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
>>thing=20
>>has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
>>the=20
>>hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
>>vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
>>killer=20
>>stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
>>instead.=20
>>It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
>>B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
>>STM-48s<BR>>>=20
>>*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
>>STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
>>absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
>>MIXERS, one=20
>>of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
>>able to=20
>>route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
>>sum -=20
>>anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
>>this... you=20
>>drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
>>
>>from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
>>smallest=20
>>mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
>>more=20
>>DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
>>represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
>>and in a=20
>>very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
>>connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
>>patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
>>coming=20
>>from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
>>it=20
>>could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
>>were=20
>>running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
>>36-channel mix=20
>>going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
>>through=20
>>the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
>>do=20
>>a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
>>now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
>>window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
>>"1632"=20
>>mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
>>so=20
>>you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
>>channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
>>signal to=20
>>go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
>>analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
>>into=20
>>your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
>>
>>the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
>>monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
>>Masterlink, and=20
>>also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
>>once?=20
>>You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
>>Classic=20
>>(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
>>but=20
>>without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
>>with it=20
>>enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
>>not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
>>(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
>>or=20
>>attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
>>if it's=20
>>not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
>>LowCut=20
>>Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
>>mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
>>these are=20
>>all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
>>they=20
>>make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
>>conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
>>for=20
>>example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
>>plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
>>would=20
>>be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
>>phat=20
>>Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
>>
>>here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
>>it=20
>>even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
>>Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
>>Phaser,=20
>>Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
>>Dither/Shaper,=20
>>Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
>>Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
>>Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
>>but most=20
>>of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
>>mold, in=20
>>the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
>>are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
>>really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
>>settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
>>like=20
>>crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
>>algos=20
>>out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
>>presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
>>above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
>>Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
>>up into=20
>>a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
>>and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
>>that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
>>tell=20
>>(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
>>what you'd=20
>>get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
>>software=20
>>option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
>>DSP=20
>>chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
>>Thad got=20
>>a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
>>with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
>>the=20
>>Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
>>(which I=20
>>know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
>>bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
>>- will=20
>>fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
>>of the=20
>>cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
>>their own=20
>>literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
>>from=20
>>later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
>><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77649 is a reply to message #77643] |
Sat, 30 December 2006 16:04 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Deej,
I get a headache and eyestrain just reading what you are doing with your
DAW's.
Have a happy and Productive new Year...that goes for everyone actually.
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596c522@linux...
> I've been sitting here mapping out my future tracking and mixdown
> platform. It will be a two way street. I will keep my Pulsar cards where
> they are, in my AMD 4400 x 2 system along with my VSTi's, all of which,
> with the exception of the Steiny drum machine (whatever it's called) have
> standalone GUIs .This system has 48 ADAT I/O, a stereo pair of s/pdif and
> a stereo pair of AESI/O and 20 analog I/O (an A16U and an analog pair on
> two of the Pulsar cards.
>
> The other DAW will be happening on another DAW running aqn AMD 4800 x 2
> CPU with 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and an HDSP Multiface running Cubase 4 and 4
> x UAD-1 cards.
>
> The 2 x 9652's will be lightpiped direct to the 48 I/O of the Pulsar cards
> and their coax I/O will be patched directly to the Pulsar AES and spdif
> I/O through a didital patchbay. The Multiface ADAT I/O will be interfaced
> with an RME ADI4-DD which is patched into my 4X analog reverb processors.
> The Multiface S/Pdif I/O will be patched directly to Mytek stereo 96
> AD/DA's through the digital patchbay.
>
> Tracking will be done in Cubase with the Pulsar analog I/O routed
> digitally via ADAT to the HDSP I/O and the Mytek I/O also being available
> to the Scope system. The Multiface I/O being available directly in the
> Cubase rig. This will give me 30 analog I/O during tracking
> sessions.........more then enough.
>
> Mixing will be done in Cubase with appropriate mono or stereo tracks as is
> appropriate for the mix being bussed via lightpipe from the HDSP's to
> Pulsar for summing.
>
> This should hopefully allow for a nice *zero latency* tracking scenario,
> similar to what can be achieved with Paris.........maybe, I
> hope..depending on how the RME drivers behave. that's the big ?. The
> Pulsar drivers have put the RME system to shame as far as operating at
> lower latencies but I have heard that the newer RME betas have drastically
> improved this situation.
>
> I've gotta try this. If I don't like it, I can repatch things fairly
> quickly back to the situation I have now.
>
> the quest continues....
>
> ;o)
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:4596bd30$1@linux...
>>
>> Two things to add. First, and I know it's not your bag so you're not that
>> interested, but to repeat, Scope is a superb synthesis platform as well.
>> Second, I really wish XTC mode worked better, even if one wanted to run
>> stems
>> to sum in the Scope mixer. For me, there is the
>> composing/tracking/humming/screwing
>> around stage of making music and then the mixing/tweaking stage. The
>> ability
>> to use XTC mode to start, then render the Scope tracks before 'serious'
>> mixing
>> would be ideal. I know it's possible now but XTC mode is so shaky I'm not
>> sure it's worth the bother.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>I previously posted.............
>>>
>>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>>sum=20
>>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>>wherein <
>>>
>>>this should read .......
>>>
>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>>sum=20
>>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
>>>wherein .yadda yadda.......
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
>>>> Neil,
>>>>=20
>>>> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing.
>> =
>>>Now=20
>>>> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>>>>=20
>>>> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. =
>>>Look at=20
>>>> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run
>> =
>>>lots=20
>>>> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>>respect,=20
>>>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor =
>>>counts.=20
>>>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that
>> =
>>>30=20
>>>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
>>>thing=20
>>>> with the Soundscape system.
>>>>=20
>>>> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going
>> =
>>>to=20
>>>> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with =
>>>PT and=20
>>>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform.
>> =
>>>I've=20
>>>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
>>>plugins for=20
>>>> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
>>>came=20
>>>> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
>>>the=20
>>>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
>>>offerings that=20
>>>> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
>>>excellent=20
>>>> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
>>>the DSP=20
>>>> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
>>>Pro=20
>>>> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
>>>>=20
>>>> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
>>>relates to=20
>>>> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
>>>either as=20
>>>> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC
>> =
>>>mode=20
>>>> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
>> =
>>>sum=20
>>>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>>wherein=20
>>>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar
>> =
>>>to the=20
>>>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>>>>=20
>>>> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
>>>processor=20
>>>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
>>>and=20
>>>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got
>> =
>>>two=20
>>>> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does
>> =
>>>a=20
>>>> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
>>>well=20
>>>> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's
>> =
>>>and=20
>>>> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
>>>good=20
>>>> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
>>>plugins on=20
>>>> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency"
>> =
>>>UAD-1=20
>>>> scenario.
>>>>=20
>>>> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have =
>>>been=20
>>>> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
>>>Paris=20
>>>> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
>>>platform=20
>>>> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
>>>stable=20
>>>> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
>>>options=20
>>>> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
>>>me. I=20
>>>> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
>>>plugins=20
>>>> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just =
>>>might..=20
>>>> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket =
>>>IMO.=20
>>>> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>>platform to=20
>>>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that
>> =
>>>I was=20
>>>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
>>>> admission.
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> ;o)
>>>>=20
>>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>>>>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>>>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>>>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>>>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>>>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>>>>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>>>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>>>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>>>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>>>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>>>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>>>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>>>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>>>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>>>>> exaggerating a bit).
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>>>>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>>>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>>>>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>>>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>>>>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>>>>
>>>>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>>>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>>>>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>>>>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>>>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>>>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>>>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>>>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>>>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>>>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>>>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>>>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>>>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>>>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>>>>> would be the one to use).
>>>>>
>>>>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>>>>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>>>>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>>>>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>>>>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>>>>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>>>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>>>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>>>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>>>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>>>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>>>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>>>>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>>>>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>>>>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>>>>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>>>>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>>>>> or sum - anything!
>>>>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>>>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>>>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>>>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>>>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>>>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>>>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>>>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>>>>
>>>>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>>>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>>>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>>>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>>>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>>>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>>>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>>>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>>>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>>>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>>>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>>>>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>>>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>>>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>>>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>>>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>>>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>>>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>>>>> can do this, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>>>>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>>>>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>>>>> sounds much different or not)
>>>>>
>>>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>>>>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>>>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>>>>
>>>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>>>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>>>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>>>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>>>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>>>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>>>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>>>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>>>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>>>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>>>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>>>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>>>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>>>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>>>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>>>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>>>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>>>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>>>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>>>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>>>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>>>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>>>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>>>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>>>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>>>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>>>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>>>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>>>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>>>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>>>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>>>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>>>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>>>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>>>>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>>>>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>>>>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>>>>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil=20
>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>
>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>></HEAD>
>>><BODY>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
>>>posted.............</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>><BR>which=20
>>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>>><BR>in=20
>>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein
>> =
>>>
>>><</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>><BR>which=20
>>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>>><BR>in=20
>>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
>>>work "in=20
>>>series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
>>>href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>>wrote in=20
>>>message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
>>><BR>> Great=20
>>>post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
>>><BR>>=20
>>>here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
>>>proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
>>><BR>> the=20
>>>limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots =
>>><BR>>=20
>>>of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>>respect,=20
>>><BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
>>>processor=20
>>>counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
>>>PlanetZ=20
>>>forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
>>>mixing.=20
>>>The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
>>>Also,=20
>>>before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
>>><BR>>=20
>>>need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT
>> =
>>>and=20
>>><BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
>>>platform.=20
>>>I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
>>>stock=20
>>>plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
>>>EDS=20
>>>plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
>>>better=20
>>>(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
>>>Skunkworks=20
>>>subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
>>>for=20
>>>this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
>>>and as you=20
>>>have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
>>>on the=20
>>>Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
>>>was=20
>>>going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
>>>you that=20
>>>the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
>>>native=20
>>>audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
>>>backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>><BR>>=20
>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>>sum=20
>>><BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
>>>series"=20
>>>wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
>>>the=20
>>>series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
>>>(the=20
>>>familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
>>>as a=20
>>>*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
>>>S/Pdif I/O=20
>>>on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
>>>inordinate=20
>>>amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
>>>it's an=20
>>>1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
>>>some of=20
>>>the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
>>>comparisons=20
>>>that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
>>>API=20
>>>sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
>>>the=20
>>>UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
>>>auxes/inserts=20
>>>may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
>>>scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
>>>
>>>platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
>>>works=20
>>>wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
>>>most=20
>>>stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
>>>encountered. I was=20
>>>going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
>>>incredible=20
>>>(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
>>>plugins. the=20
>>>plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
>>>never=20
>>>expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
>>>are to my=20
>>>liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
>>><BR>> In=20
>>>the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO. =
>>><BR>>=20
>>>The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>>platform to=20
>>><BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
>>>here that=20
>>>I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
>>>price=20
>>>of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
>>><BR>>=20
>>>"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
>>>in message=20
>>></FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
>>>thing as their=20
>>>"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
>>>another=20
>>>problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
>>>different=20
>>>names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
>>>their=20
>>>marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
>>>rename=20
>>>their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
>>>either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
>>>exact=20
>>>same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
>>>Pack, and=20
>>>IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
>>>are total=20
>>>crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
>>>some=20
>>>don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
>>>wonder:=20
>>>"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
>>>the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
>>>mentioned=20
>>>that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
>>>it=20
>>>does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
>>>
>>>haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
>>>were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
>>>Aaron, what=20
>>>they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
>>>of the=20
>>>page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
>>>ain't=20
>>>exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
>>>it in=20
>>>the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
>>>
>>>below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
>>>nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
>>>but it=20
>>>sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
>>>like=20
>>>Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
>>>Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
>>>It's not=20
>>>as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
>>>section (or=20
>>>a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
>>>it sounds=20
>>>pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
>>>totally=20
>>>incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
>>>get it=20
>>>there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
>>>avoid=20
>>>overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
>>>all of=20
>>>the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
>>>starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
>>>using=20
>>>this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
>>>things=20
>>>a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
>>>&=20
>>>clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
>>>then=20
>>>this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
>>>*Vinco=20
>>>Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
>>>far as I=20
>>>can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
>>>an 1176,=20
>>>but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
>>>found the=20
>>>'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
>>>lust=20
>>>after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
>>>all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
>>>a stereo=20
>>>spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
>>>thing=20
>>>has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
>>>the=20
>>>hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
>>>vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
>>>killer=20
>>>stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
>>>instead.=20
>>>It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
>>>B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
>>>STM-48s<BR>>>=20
>>>*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
>>>STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
>>>absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
>>>MIXERS, one=20
>>>of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
>>>able to=20
>>>route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
>>>sum -=20
>>>anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
>>>this... you=20
>>>drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
>>>
>>>from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
>>>smallest=20
>>>mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
>>>more=20
>>>DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
>>>represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
>>>and in a=20
>>>very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
>>>connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
>>>patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
>>>coming=20
>>>from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
>>>it=20
>>>could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
>>>were=20
>>>running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
>>>36-channel mix=20
>>>going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
>>>through=20
>>>the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
>>>do=20
>>>a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
>>>now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
>>>window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
>>>"1632"=20
>>>mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
>>>so=20
>>>you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
>>>channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
>>>signal to=20
>>>go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
>>>analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
>>>into=20
>>>your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
>>>
>>>the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
>>>monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
>>>Masterlink, and=20
>>>also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
>>>once?=20
>>>You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
>>>Classic=20
>>>(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
>>>but=20
>>>without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
>>>with it=20
>>>enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
>>>not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
>>>(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
>>>or=20
>>>attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
>>>if it's=20
>>>not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
>>>LowCut=20
>>>Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
>>>mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
>>>these are=20
>>>all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
>>>they=20
>>>make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
>>>conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
>>>for=20
>>>example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
>>>plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
>>>would=20
>>>be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
>>>phat=20
>>>Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
>>>
>>>here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
>>>it=20
>>>even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
>>>Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
>>>Phaser,=20
>>>Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
>>>Dither/Shaper,=20
>>>Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
>>>Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
>>>Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
>>>but most=20
>>>of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
>>>mold, in=20
>>>the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
>>>are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
>>>really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
>>>settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
>>>like=20
>>>crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
>>>algos=20
>>>out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
>>>presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
>>>above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
>>>Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
>>>up into=20
>>>a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
>>>and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
>>>that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
>>>tell=20
>>>(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
>>>what you'd=20
>>>get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
>>>software=20
>>>option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
>>>DSP=20
>>>chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
>>>Thad got=20
>>>a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
>>>with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
>>>the=20
>>>Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
>>>(which I=20
>>>know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
>>>bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
>>>- will=20
>>>fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
>>>of the=20
>>>cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
>>>their own=20
>>>literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
>>>from=20
>>>later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
>>><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77723 is a reply to message #77649] |
Sun, 31 December 2006 19:21 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Martin,
I'm thinking that by bussing groups in the Scope mixer and attenuating the
groups by, say -12dB and the main mix by the same, using Pulsar DSP based
compressors on the individual channels I *may* be able to recreate something
similar to the channel/submix/global mix gain staging of Paris.......then
again, I could just stick with Paris summing which is working perfectly
right now. I'm just sorta' thinking in terms of checking out some higher
sample rates that I won't be able to hear.
HNY,
;o)
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:4596fbf5@linux...
> Deej,
> I get a headache and eyestrain just reading what you are doing with your
> DAW's.
> Have a happy and Productive new Year...that goes for everyone actually.
> --
> Martin Harrington
> www.lendanear-sound.com
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596c522@linux...
>> I've been sitting here mapping out my future tracking and mixdown
>> platform. It will be a two way street. I will keep my Pulsar cards where
>> they are, in my AMD 4400 x 2 system along with my VSTi's, all of which,
>> with the exception of the Steiny drum machine (whatever it's called) have
>> standalone GUIs .This system has 48 ADAT I/O, a stereo pair of s/pdif and
>> a stereo pair of AESI/O and 20 analog I/O (an A16U and an analog pair on
>> two of the Pulsar cards.
>>
>> The other DAW will be happening on another DAW running aqn AMD 4800 x 2
>> CPU with 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and an HDSP Multiface running Cubase 4 and 4
>> x UAD-1 cards.
>>
>> The 2 x 9652's will be lightpiped direct to the 48 I/O of the Pulsar
>> cards and their coax I/O will be patched directly to the Pulsar AES and
>> spdif I/O through a didital patchbay. The Multiface ADAT I/O will be
>> interfaced with an RME ADI4-DD which is patched into my 4X analog reverb
>> processors. The Multiface S/Pdif I/O will be patched directly to Mytek
>> stereo 96 AD/DA's through the digital patchbay.
>>
>> Tracking will be done in Cubase with the Pulsar analog I/O routed
>> digitally via ADAT to the HDSP I/O and the Mytek I/O also being available
>> to the Scope system. The Multiface I/O being available directly in the
>> Cubase rig. This will give me 30 analog I/O during tracking
>> sessions.........more then enough.
>>
>> Mixing will be done in Cubase with appropriate mono or stereo tracks as
>> is appropriate for the mix being bussed via lightpipe from the HDSP's to
>> Pulsar for summing.
>>
>> This should hopefully allow for a nice *zero latency* tracking scenario,
>> similar to what can be achieved with Paris.........maybe, I
>> hope..depending on how the RME drivers behave. that's the big ?. The
>> Pulsar drivers have put the RME system to shame as far as operating at
>> lower latencies but I have heard that the newer RME betas have
>> drastically improved this situation.
>>
>> I've gotta try this. If I don't like it, I can repatch things fairly
>> quickly back to the situation I have now.
>>
>> the quest continues....
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:4596bd30$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Two things to add. First, and I know it's not your bag so you're not
>>> that
>>> interested, but to repeat, Scope is a superb synthesis platform as well.
>>> Second, I really wish XTC mode worked better, even if one wanted to run
>>> stems
>>> to sum in the Scope mixer. For me, there is the
>>> composing/tracking/humming/screwing
>>> around stage of making music and then the mixing/tweaking stage. The
>>> ability
>>> to use XTC mode to start, then render the Scope tracks before 'serious'
>>> mixing
>>> would be ideal. I know it's possible now but XTC mode is so shaky I'm
>>> not
>>> sure it's worth the bother.
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I previously posted.............
>>>>
>>>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>>>sum=20
>>>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>>>wherein <
>>>>
>>>>this should read .......
>>>>
>>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>>>sum=20
>>>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
>>>>wherein .yadda yadda.......
>>>>
>>>>Deej
>>>>
>>>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
>>>>> Neil,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing.
>>> =
>>>>Now=20
>>>>> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. =
>>>>Look at=20
>>>>> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run
>>> =
>>>>lots=20
>>>>> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>>>respect,=20
>>>>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor =
>>>>counts.=20
>>>>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum that
>>> =
>>>>30=20
>>>>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
>>>>thing=20
>>>>> with the Soundscape system.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going
>>> =
>>>>to=20
>>>>> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with =
>>>>PT and=20
>>>>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this platform.
>>> =
>>>>I've=20
>>>>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
>>>>plugins for=20
>>>>> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
>>>>came=20
>>>>> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
>>>>the=20
>>>>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
>>>>offerings that=20
>>>>> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
>>>>excellent=20
>>>>> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
>>>>the DSP=20
>>>>> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
>>>>Pro=20
>>>>> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown platform..
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
>>>>relates to=20
>>>>> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
>>>>either as=20
>>>>> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC
>>> =
>>>>mode=20
>>>>> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
>>> =
>>>>sum=20
>>>>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>>>wherein=20
>>>>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar
>>> =
>>>>to the=20
>>>>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
>>>>processor=20
>>>>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
>>>>and=20
>>>>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got
>>> =
>>>>two=20
>>>>> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also does
>>> =
>>>>a=20
>>>>> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
>>>>well=20
>>>>> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS EQ's
>>> =
>>>>and=20
>>>>> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
>>>>good=20
>>>>> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
>>>>plugins on=20
>>>>> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency"
>>> =
>>>>UAD-1=20
>>>>> scenario.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have =
>>>>been=20
>>>>> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
>>>>Paris=20
>>>>> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
>>>>platform=20
>>>>> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
>>>>stable=20
>>>>> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
>>>>options=20
>>>>> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
>>>>me. I=20
>>>>> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
>>>>plugins=20
>>>>> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just =
>>>>might..=20
>>>>> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket =
>>>>IMO.=20
>>>>> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>>>platform to=20
>>>>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here that
>>> =
>>>>I was=20
>>>>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
>>>>> admission.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>>>>>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>>>>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>>>>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>>>>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>>>>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>>>>>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>>>>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>>>>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>>>>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>>>>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>>>>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>>>>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>>>>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>>>>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>>>>>> exaggerating a bit).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>>>>>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>>>>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>>>>>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>>>>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>>>>>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>>>>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>>>>>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>>>>>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>>>>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>>>>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>>>>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>>>>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>>>>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>>>>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>>>>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>>>>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>>>>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>>>>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>>>>>> would be the one to use).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>>>>>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>>>>>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>>>>>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>>>>>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>>>>>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>>>>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>>>>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>>>>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>>>>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>>>>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>>>>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>>>>>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>>>>>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>>>>>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>>>>>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>>>>>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>>>>>> or sum - anything!
>>>>>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>>>>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>>>>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>>>>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>>>>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>>>>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>>>>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>>>>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>>>>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>>>>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>>>>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>>>>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>>>>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>>>>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>>>>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>>>>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>>>>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>>>>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>>>>>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>>>>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>>>>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>>>>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>>>>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>>>>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>>>>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>>>>>> can do this, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>>>>>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>>>>>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>>>>>> sounds much different or not)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>>>>>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>>>>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>>>>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>>>>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>>>>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>>>>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>>>>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>>>>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>>>>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>>>>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>>>>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>>>>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>>>>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>>>>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>>>>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>>>>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>>>>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>>>>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>>>>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>>>>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>>>>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>>>>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>>>>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>>>>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>>>>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>>>>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>>>>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>>>>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>>>>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>>>>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>>>>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>>>>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>>>>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>>>>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>>>>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>>>>>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>>>>>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>>>>>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>>>>>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>></HEAD>
>>>><BODY>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
>>>>posted.............</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>>><BR>which=20
>>>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>>>><BR>in=20
>>>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" wherein
>>> =
>>>>
>>>><</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>>><BR>which=20
>>>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>>>><BR>in=20
>>>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
>>>>work "in=20
>>>>series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
>>>>href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>>>wrote in=20
>>>>message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
>>>><BR>> Great=20
>>>>post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
>>>>proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
>>>><BR>> the=20
>>>>limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots =
>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>>>respect,=20
>>>><BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
>>>>processor=20
>>>>counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
>>>>PlanetZ=20
>>>>forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
>>>>mixing.=20
>>>>The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
>>>>Also,=20
>>>>before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT
>>> =
>>>>and=20
>>>><BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
>>>>platform.=20
>>>>I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
>>>>stock=20
>>>>plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
>>>>EDS=20
>>>>plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
>>>>better=20
>>>>(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
>>>>Skunkworks=20
>>>>subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
>>>>for=20
>>>>this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
>>>>and as you=20
>>>>have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
>>>>on the=20
>>>>Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
>>>>was=20
>>>>going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
>>>>you that=20
>>>>the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
>>>>native=20
>>>>audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
>>>>backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you =
>>>>sum=20
>>>><BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
>>>>series"=20
>>>>wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
>>>>the=20
>>>>series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
>>>>(the=20
>>>>familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
>>>>as a=20
>>>>*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
>>>>S/Pdif I/O=20
>>>>on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
>>>>inordinate=20
>>>>amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
>>>>it's an=20
>>>>1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
>>>>some of=20
>>>>the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
>>>>comparisons=20
>>>>that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
>>>>API=20
>>>>sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
>>>>the=20
>>>>UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
>>>>auxes/inserts=20
>>>>may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
>>>>scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
>>>>
>>>>platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
>>>>works=20
>>>>wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
>>>>most=20
>>>>stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
>>>>encountered. I was=20
>>>>going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
>>>>incredible=20
>>>>(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
>>>>plugins. the=20
>>>>plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
>>>>never=20
>>>>expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
>>>>are to my=20
>>>>liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
>>>><BR>> In=20
>>>>the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO. =
>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>>>platform to=20
>>>><BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
>>>>here that=20
>>>>I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
>>>>price=20
>>>>of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
>>>>in message=20
>>>></FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
>>>>thing as their=20
>>>>"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
>>>>another=20
>>>>problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
>>>>different=20
>>>>names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
>>>>their=20
>>>>marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
>>>>rename=20
>>>>their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
>>>>either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
>>>>exact=20
>>>>same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
>>>>Pack, and=20
>>>>IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
>>>>are total=20
>>>>crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
>>>>some=20
>>>>don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
>>>>wonder:=20
>>>>"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
>>>>the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
>>>>mentioned=20
>>>>that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
>>>>it=20
>>>>does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
>>>>
>>>>haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
>>>>were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
>>>>Aaron, what=20
>>>>they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
>>>>of the=20
>>>>page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
>>>>ain't=20
>>>>exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
>>>>it in=20
>>>>the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
>>>>
>>>>below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
>>>>nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
>>>>but it=20
>>>>sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
>>>>like=20
>>>>Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
>>>>Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
>>>>It's not=20
>>>>as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
>>>>section (or=20
>>>>a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
>>>>it sounds=20
>>>>pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
>>>>totally=20
>>>>incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
>>>>get it=20
>>>>there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
>>>>avoid=20
>>>>overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
>>>>all of=20
>>>>the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
>>>>starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
>>>>using=20
>>>>this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
>>>>things=20
>>>>a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
>>>>&=20
>>>>clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
>>>>then=20
>>>>this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
>>>>*Vinco=20
>>>>Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
>>>>far as I=20
>>>>can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
>>>>an 1176,=20
>>>>but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
>>>>found the=20
>>>>'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
>>>>lust=20
>>>>after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
>>>>all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
>>>>a stereo=20
>>>>spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
>>>>thing=20
>>>>has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
>>>>the=20
>>>>hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
>>>>vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
>>>>killer=20
>>>>stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
>>>>instead.=20
>>>>It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
>>>>B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
>>>>STM-48s<BR>>>=20
>>>>*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
>>>>STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
>>>>absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
>>>>MIXERS, one=20
>>>>of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
>>>>able to=20
>>>>route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
>>>>sum -=20
>>>>anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
>>>>this... you=20
>>>>drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
>>>>
>>>>from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
>>>>smallest=20
>>>>mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
>>>>more=20
>>>>DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
>>>>represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
>>>>and in a=20
>>>>very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
>>>>connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
>>>>patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
>>>>coming=20
>>>>from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
>>>>it=20
>>>>could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
>>>>were=20
>>>>running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
>>>>36-channel mix=20
>>>>going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
>>>>through=20
>>>>the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
>>>>do=20
>>>>a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
>>>>now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
>>>>window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
>>>>"1632"=20
>>>>mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
>>>>so=20
>>>>you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
>>>>channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
>>>>signal to=20
>>>>go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
>>>>analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
>>>>into=20
>>>>your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
>>>>
>>>>the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
>>>>monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
>>>>Masterlink, and=20
>>>>also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
>>>>once?=20
>>>>You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
>>>>Classic=20
>>>>(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
>>>>but=20
>>>>without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
>>>>with it=20
>>>>enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
>>>>not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
>>>>(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
>>>>or=20
>>>>attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
>>>>if it's=20
>>>>not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
>>>>LowCut=20
>>>>Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
>>>>mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
>>>>these are=20
>>>>all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
>>>>they=20
>>>>make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
>>>>conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
>>>>for=20
>>>>example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
>>>>plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
>>>>would=20
>>>>be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
>>>>phat=20
>>>>Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
>>>>
>>>>here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
>>>>it=20
>>>>even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
>>>>Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
>>>>Phaser,=20
>>>>Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
>>>>Dither/Shaper,=20
>>>>Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
>>>>Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
>>>>Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
>>>>but most=20
>>>>of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
>>>>mold, in=20
>>>>the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
>>>>are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
>>>>really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
>>>>settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
>>>>like=20
>>>>crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
>>>>algos=20
>>>>out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
>>>>presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
>>>>above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
>>>>Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
>>>>up into=20
>>>>a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
>>>>and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
>>>>that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
>>>>tell=20
>>>>(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
>>>>what you'd=20
>>>>get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
>>>>software=20
>>>>option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
>>>>DSP=20
>>>>chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
>>>>Thad got=20
>>>>a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
>>>>with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
>>>>the=20
>>>>Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
>>>>(which I=20
>>>>know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
>>>>bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
>>>>- will=20
>>>>fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
>>>>of the=20
>>>>cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
>>>>their own=20
>>>>literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
>>>>from=20
>>>>later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
>>>><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77725 is a reply to message #77723] |
Sun, 31 December 2006 20:41 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
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"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>Martin,
>
>I'm thinking that by bussing groups in the Scope mixer and attenuating the
>groups by, say -12dB and the main mix by the same, using Pulsar DSP based
>compressors on the individual channels I *may* be able to recreate something
>similar to the channel/submix/global mix gain staging of Paris.......then
>again, I could just stick with Paris summing which is working perfectly
>right now. I'm just sorta' thinking in terms of checking out some higher
>sample rates that I won't be able to hear.
>
>HNY,
>
>;o)
You'll be able to hear the difference. It's not all about
what's up in the 30k-plus range, it's really about cleaning up
the top end of what you ARE able to hear.
I agree with Martin, though - I could never get my head around
the configurations you're trying to make work LOL. Even with
two machines, my rig is pretty simple
Here's a pic... Cubase machine on the right, along with my main
Multiface (up on top of the rack, next to the Portico) since
most of what I mic is going to happen in that room behind to
the right, whether it's drums, vocals, an acoustic guitar or
other instrument... hence most of my preamps being in that
rack, as well (the big empty space is where the ISA 428 goes,
which is off having channel 4 fixed right now), I can lightpipe
the 428 to the Multiface, for a total of 12 inputs on that side
(I don't have a pre with SPDIF out, so it's the 8 analog & 4
lightpipes per Multiface for me). Then on the other side is the
Pulsar/Paris machine with it's monitor on top of the MEC.
That's taking lightpipes from both Multifaces - the other of
which you see is right underneath the left Dynaudio speaker, on
top of the Grace 101's - which sit right there because if I'm
micing electric guitar the amp/cabinets are going to be in that
room behind to the left, and there's a 99.9% chance I'm going
to use the Graces and/or the Focusrite Red 8, so having the
Graces there is convenient. Having the Multiface on that side
means I've got a convenient MIDI and analog hook-in for the
other synth, also. Word Clock & Central Station underneath
since I don't have to touch them much... Central Station analog
in's (2 sets) gets fed by both the Pulsar outs & the Main
Multiface outs, and its SPDIF in gets fed by the MEC's SPDIF
out, so I can switch between 'em... and bada-bing! Simple!
I'd like to get another rack for the left side, since there's
a few things I don't have racked (a TL Audio channel strip & a
couple of dbx comps, plus I could stick the MEC in there), but
I want to find one that's short enough to keep that monitor
screen at about the same height.
I've seen pics of your racks & rig... I'd need four times the
space to fit your setup in here! lol
Neil
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77726 is a reply to message #77723] |
Sun, 31 December 2006 19:55 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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My headache's getting worse, although that could have something to do with
last nights celebrations...oh well...off to see Happy Feet now..HNY to you..
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:45987b2b@linux...
> Martin,
>
> I'm thinking that by bussing groups in the Scope mixer and attenuating the
> groups by, say -12dB and the main mix by the same, using Pulsar DSP based
> compressors on the individual channels I *may* be able to recreate
> something similar to the channel/submix/global mix gain staging of
> Paris.......then again, I could just stick with Paris summing which is
> working perfectly right now. I'm just sorta' thinking in terms of checking
> out some higher sample rates that I won't be able to hear.
>
> HNY,
>
> ;o)
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:4596fbf5@linux...
>> Deej,
>> I get a headache and eyestrain just reading what you are doing with your
>> DAW's.
>> Have a happy and Productive new Year...that goes for everyone actually.
>> --
>> Martin Harrington
>> www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596c522@linux...
>>> I've been sitting here mapping out my future tracking and mixdown
>>> platform. It will be a two way street. I will keep my Pulsar cards where
>>> they are, in my AMD 4400 x 2 system along with my VSTi's, all of which,
>>> with the exception of the Steiny drum machine (whatever it's called)
>>> have standalone GUIs .This system has 48 ADAT I/O, a stereo pair of
>>> s/pdif and a stereo pair of AESI/O and 20 analog I/O (an A16U and an
>>> analog pair on two of the Pulsar cards.
>>>
>>> The other DAW will be happening on another DAW running aqn AMD 4800 x 2
>>> CPU with 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and an HDSP Multiface running Cubase 4 and
>>> 4 x UAD-1 cards.
>>>
>>> The 2 x 9652's will be lightpiped direct to the 48 I/O of the Pulsar
>>> cards and their coax I/O will be patched directly to the Pulsar AES and
>>> spdif I/O through a didital patchbay. The Multiface ADAT I/O will be
>>> interfaced with an RME ADI4-DD which is patched into my 4X analog reverb
>>> processors. The Multiface S/Pdif I/O will be patched directly to Mytek
>>> stereo 96 AD/DA's through the digital patchbay.
>>>
>>> Tracking will be done in Cubase with the Pulsar analog I/O routed
>>> digitally via ADAT to the HDSP I/O and the Mytek I/O also being
>>> available to the Scope system. The Multiface I/O being available
>>> directly in the Cubase rig. This will give me 30 analog I/O during
>>> tracking sessions.........more then enough.
>>>
>>> Mixing will be done in Cubase with appropriate mono or stereo tracks as
>>> is appropriate for the mix being bussed via lightpipe from the HDSP's to
>>> Pulsar for summing.
>>>
>>> This should hopefully allow for a nice *zero latency* tracking scenario,
>>> similar to what can be achieved with Paris.........maybe, I
>>> hope..depending on how the RME drivers behave. that's the big ?. The
>>> Pulsar drivers have put the RME system to shame as far as operating at
>>> lower latencies but I have heard that the newer RME betas have
>>> drastically improved this situation.
>>>
>>> I've gotta try this. If I don't like it, I can repatch things fairly
>>> quickly back to the situation I have now.
>>>
>>> the quest continues....
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:4596bd30$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Two things to add. First, and I know it's not your bag so you're not
>>>> that
>>>> interested, but to repeat, Scope is a superb synthesis platform as
>>>> well.
>>>> Second, I really wish XTC mode worked better, even if one wanted to run
>>>> stems
>>>> to sum in the Scope mixer. For me, there is the
>>>> composing/tracking/humming/screwing
>>>> around stage of making music and then the mixing/tweaking stage. The
>>>> ability
>>>> to use XTC mode to start, then render the Scope tracks before 'serious'
>>>> mixing
>>>> would be ideal. I know it's possible now but XTC mode is so shaky I'm
>>>> not
>>>> sure it's worth the bother.
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I previously posted.............
>>>>>
>>>>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
>>>>>=
>>>>>sum=20
>>>>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>>>>wherein <
>>>>>
>>>>>this should read .......
>>>>>
>>>>>Either you have to work in XTC mode=20
>>>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
>>>>>=
>>>>>sum=20
>>>>>in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, so you work "in series" =
>>>>>wherein .yadda yadda.......
>>>>>
>>>>>Deej
>>>>>
>>>>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4596a69a@linux...
>>>>>> Neil,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Great post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing.
>>>> =
>>>>>Now=20
>>>>>> here are some more thoughts for Parisites.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Seems all proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks.
>>>>>> =
>>>>>Look at=20
>>>>>> the limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run
>>>> =
>>>>>lots=20
>>>>>> of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>>>>respect,=20
>>>>>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP processor
>>>>>> =
>>>>>counts.=20
>>>>>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the PlanetZ forum
>>>>>> that
>>>> =
>>>>>30=20
>>>>>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious mixing. The same =
>>>>>thing=20
>>>>>> with the Soundscape system.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Also, before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm
>>>>>> going
>>>> =
>>>>>to=20
>>>>>> need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with
>>>>>> =
>>>>>PT and=20
>>>>>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this
>>>>>> platform.
>>>> =
>>>>>I've=20
>>>>>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the stock =
>>>>>plugins for=20
>>>>>> this platform are as good or better than the stock EDS plugins that =
>>>>>came=20
>>>>>> with the Paris system with some being "much" better (have you tried =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the Skunkworks subsequent =
>>>>>offerings that=20
>>>>>> were DSP based, the third party plugs for this program may be =
>>>>>excellent=20
>>>>>> stuff..........but like Paris, and as you have already pointed out, =
>>>>>the DSP=20
>>>>>> resources are rather limited on the Home and Project cards so going =
>>>>>Pro=20
>>>>>> would be the ticket if this was going to be a large mixdown
>>>>>> platform..
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I do agree with you that the implementation of this platform as =
>>>>>relates to=20
>>>>>> working in a native audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it =
>>>>>either as=20
>>>>>> a step backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC
>>>> =
>>>>>mode=20
>>>>>> which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or
>>>>>> you
>>>> =
>>>>>sum=20
>>>>>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series" =
>>>>>wherein=20
>>>>>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in the series, similar
>>>> =
>>>>>to the=20
>>>>>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario (the familiar).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Another killer way to use this platform is as a *real time* FX =
>>>>>processor=20
>>>>>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and S/Pdif I/O on the Paris inserts =
>>>>>and=20
>>>>>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an inordinate amount of DSP and it's got
>>>> =
>>>>>two=20
>>>>>> modes. Again as you pointed out, it's an 1176 ringer, but it also
>>>>>> does
>>>> =
>>>>>a=20
>>>>>> nice opto. I will be looking at some of the third party plugins as =
>>>>>well=20
>>>>>> because I have heard some comparisons that were posted of the DAS
>>>>>> EQ's
>>>> =
>>>>>and=20
>>>>>> they were damned nice. The API sounded killer and the Pultec gave a =
>>>>>good=20
>>>>>> account of itself vs the UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" =
>>>>>plugins on=20
>>>>>> Paris auxes/inserts may be similar to having a "zero audible latency"
>>>> =
>>>>>UAD-1=20
>>>>>> scenario.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> You and I had different expectations for this platform and mine have
>>>>>> =
>>>>>been=20
>>>>>> met in spades. The way I use Scope works wonders for my particular =
>>>>>Paris=20
>>>>>> summing madness and it is the most stable and flexible native audio =
>>>>>platform=20
>>>>>> I've ever encountered. I was going more for I/O connectivity on a =
>>>>>stable=20
>>>>>> platform and the incredible (and to me, fast & intuitive) routing =
>>>>>options=20
>>>>>> than the plugins. the plugins and synths were icing on the cake for =
>>>>>me. I=20
>>>>>> really never expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party =
>>>>>plugins=20
>>>>>> are to my liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just
>>>>>> =
>>>>>might..=20
>>>>>> In the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket
>>>>>> =
>>>>>IMO.=20
>>>>>> The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>>>>platform to=20
>>>>>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have here
>>>>>> that
>>>> =
>>>>>I was=20
>>>>>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the price of=20
>>>>>> admission.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45952a49$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, this looks like the same thing as their "Mix & Master
>>>>>>> Pack", which I also have... this is another problem with the
>>>>>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of different names for
>>>>>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help their marketing
>>>>>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to rename their
>>>>>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names, either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the exact same thing as what
>>>>>>> they now call their Mix & Master Pack, and IMO, YMMV, etc, some
>>>>>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em are total crap... or more
>>>>>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, some don't seem to
>>>>>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to wonder: "why
>>>>>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of the
>>>>>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone mentioned that
>>>>>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before it does
>>>>>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I haven't
>>>>>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they were
>>>>>>> exaggerating a bit).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, Aaron, what they mention on that page you liked to (down
>>>>>>> at the bottom of the page) with regard to the list
>>>>>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em ain't exactly plugins!. I'll
>>>>>>> paste that list in & run through it in the order they mention
>>>>>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis below):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving
>>>>>>> about it, necessarily, but it sucketh not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Optimaster (this is something like Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-
>>>>>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a Compressor, a limiter, expander,
>>>>>>> all multi-band (3 bands). It's not as versatile as Ozone, and
>>>>>>> doesn't have a stereo spread section (or a reverb, but that
>>>>>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but it sounds pretty good,
>>>>>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either totally incapable
>>>>>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to get it there,
>>>>>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to avoid overs
>>>>>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not all of the
>>>>>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as starting
>>>>>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house using this
>>>>>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching things a
>>>>>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth & clear-
>>>>>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, then this
>>>>>>> would be the one to use).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Vinco Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least
>>>>>>> as far as I can tell from what I've run through it so far)
>>>>>>> emulation of an 1176, but cleaner - maybe a little
>>>>>>> less "attitude". I've never found the '76's to be all that
>>>>>>> useful, personally, but for those who lust after them, his
>>>>>>> one's not a bad clone at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at a stereo spread
>>>>>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this thing has
>>>>>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing the hell
>>>>>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost vaguely
>>>>>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a killer stereo
>>>>>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone instead. It's
>>>>>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini B.A.S.E.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Surroundmixer STM-48s
>>>>>>> *Production Mixer STM-2448
>>>>>>> *Inline Mixer STM-1632
>>>>>>> (OK, absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're
>>>>>>> MIXERS, one of which you have to have in your routing window &
>>>>>>> be able to route signals through it in order to actually MIX -
>>>>>>> or sum - anything!
>>>>>>> See, the routing window works something like this... you drop
>>>>>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming from,
>>>>>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the smallest mixer
>>>>>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the more DSP
>>>>>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that represents
>>>>>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, and in a very
>>>>>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get connected
>>>>>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual patchbay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The part about "where your signal is coming from" could mean a
>>>>>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or it could mean a
>>>>>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you were running
>>>>>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a 36-channel mix going on
>>>>>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually through the
>>>>>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, do a
>>>>>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right now,
>>>>>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing window...
>>>>>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the "1632" mixer
>>>>>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, so you'd
>>>>>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those channels
>>>>>>> individually. The part about "where you want your signal to go
>>>>>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to analog
>>>>>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back into your
>>>>>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in the
>>>>>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for monitoring
>>>>>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis Masterlink, and also
>>>>>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at once? You
>>>>>>> can do this, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *MasterVerb Classic (seems to me like the same basic algo's as
>>>>>>> the MasterVerb, but without as much control and a different
>>>>>>> GUI - haven't messed with it enough to be able to tell if it
>>>>>>> sounds much different or not)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander, (plain-vanilla dynamics
>>>>>>> plugs without any form of coloration or attitude whatsover...
>>>>>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* if it's not.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, LowCut Filter,
>>>>>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they mentioned
>>>>>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... these are all
>>>>>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think they make
>>>>>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to conserve
>>>>>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, for example) -
>>>>>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than plain
>>>>>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that would be
>>>>>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice phat Neve-
>>>>>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it here,
>>>>>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is it even
>>>>>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical? Nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Delay, Dual
>>>>>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, Dither/Shaper, Early
>>>>>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay, Overdrive,
>>>>>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator, Tremolo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, but most of the
>>>>>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same mold, in the
>>>>>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX are
>>>>>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't really
>>>>>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few settings,
>>>>>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound like crap...
>>>>>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping algos out
>>>>>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the presets
>>>>>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch above
>>>>>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay, Modulation,
>>>>>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken up into a
>>>>>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience and
>>>>>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can tell (unless I'm
>>>>>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to what you'd get if
>>>>>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the software option
>>>>>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 DSP chips)
>>>>>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... Thad got a
>>>>>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish with
>>>>>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both the Mix
>>>>>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack (which I know
>>>>>>> nothing about since I don't have that software bundle).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Argh... tired of typing now - will fill you in on the confusing
>>>>>>> differences between the names of the cards (both new AND old/yet
>>>>>>> continuing to be referenced in their own literature), and the
>>>>>>> different i/o options you have to pick from later on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>>><HTML><HEAD>
>>>>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>>><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>>></HEAD>
>>>>><BODY>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I previously =
>>>>>posted.............</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>>>><BR>which=20
>>>>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>>>>><BR>in=20
>>>>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in series"
>>>>>wherein
>>>> =
>>>>>
>>>>><</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this should read .......</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>>>><BR>which=20
>>>>>negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you sum =
>>>>><BR>in=20
>>>>>Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, <STRONG>so</STRONG> you =
>>>>>work "in=20
>>>>>series" wherein .yadda yadda.......</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>>>>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DJ" <</FONT><A=20
>>>>>href=3D"mailto:nowayjose@dude.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>>size=3D2>nowayjose@dude.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
>>>>>wrote in=20
>>>>>message </FONT><A href=3D"news:4596a69a@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>>size=3D2>news:4596a69a@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>>size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Neil,<BR>> =
>>>>><BR>> Great=20
>>>>>post. The evolution of the cards/names is definitely confusing. Now =
>>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>>here are some more thoughts for Parisites.<BR>> <BR>> Seems all=20
>>>>>proprietary DSP cards have their advantages and drawbacks. Look at =
>>>>><BR>> the=20
>>>>>limitations of Pro Tools for instance as far as being able to run lots
>>>>>=
>>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>>of plugins. You have to buy lot$ of extra DSP hardware so in that =
>>>>>respect,=20
>>>>><BR>> there are similarities to Scope and needing the higher DSP =
>>>>>processor=20
>>>>>counts. <BR>> It's pretty much a concensus of opinion over on the =
>>>>>PlanetZ=20
>>>>>forum that 30 <BR>> DSP's (two "Pro cards") are necessary for serious =
>>>>>mixing.=20
>>>>>The same thing <BR>> with the Soundscape system.<BR>> <BR>> =
>>>>>Also,=20
>>>>>before I diss the Scope platform as far as plugins go, I'm going to =
>>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>>need to get spend some time with the third party offerings.. As with PT
>>>> =
>>>>>and=20
>>>>><BR>> Soundscape, there are "lots" of third party plugins for this =
>>>>>platform.=20
>>>>>I've <BR>> got the demos DL'ed but haven't tried them yet. IMHO, the =
>>>>>stock=20
>>>>>plugins for <BR>> this platform are as good or better than the stock =
>>>>>EDS=20
>>>>>plugins that came <BR>> with the Paris system with some being "much" =
>>>>>better=20
>>>>>(have you tried the <BR>> deesser?), and I'll wager that like the =
>>>>>Skunkworks=20
>>>>>subsequent offerings that <BR>> were DSP based, the third party plugs =
>>>>>for=20
>>>>>this program may be excellent <BR>> stuff..........but like Paris, =
>>>>>and as you=20
>>>>>have already pointed out, the DSP <BR>> resources are rather limited =
>>>>>on the=20
>>>>>Home and Project cards so going Pro <BR>> would be the ticket if this =
>>>>>was=20
>>>>>going to be a large mixdown platform..<BR>> <BR>> I do agree with =
>>>>>you that=20
>>>>>the implementation of this platform as relates to <BR>> working in a =
>>>>>native=20
>>>>>audio app sorta sucks, but you can look at it either as <BR>> a step=20
>>>>>backwards or as being familiar. Either you have to work in XTC mode =
>>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>>which negates the ability to sum in Pulsar (the step backwards) or you
>>>>>=
>>>>>sum=20
>>>>><BR>> in Pulsar and apply the Scope plugns there, or you work "in =
>>>>>series"=20
>>>>>wherein <BR>> with the VST plugins are required to be first in =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>series, similar to the <BR>> Paris native>EDS "in series" scenario =
>>>>>(the=20
>>>>>familiar).<BR>> <BR>> Another killer way to use this platform is =
>>>>>as a=20
>>>>>*real time* FX processor <BR>> interfacing with the Paris ADAT and =
>>>>>S/Pdif I/O=20
>>>>>on the Paris inserts and <BR>> auxes. The Vinco doesn't use an =
>>>>>inordinate=20
>>>>>amount of DSP and it's got two <BR>> modes. Again as you pointed out, =
>>>>>it's an=20
>>>>>1176 ringer, but it also does a <BR>> nice opto. I will be looking at =
>>>>>some of=20
>>>>>the third party plugins as well <BR>> because I have heard some =
>>>>>comparisons=20
>>>>>that were posted of the DAS EQ's and <BR>> they were damned nice. The =
>>>>>API=20
>>>>>sounded killer and the Pultec gave a good <BR>> account of itself vs =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>UAD-1 Pultec. Using these as "real time" plugins on <BR>> Paris =
>>>>>auxes/inserts=20
>>>>>may be similar to having a "zero audible latency" UAD-1 <BR>>=20
>>>>>scenario.<BR>> <BR>> You and I had different expectations for this =
>>>>>
>>>>>platform and mine have been <BR>> met in spades. The way I use Scope =
>>>>>works=20
>>>>>wonders for my particular Paris <BR>> summing madness and it is the =
>>>>>most=20
>>>>>stable and flexible native audio platform <BR>> I've ever =
>>>>>encountered. I was=20
>>>>>going more for I/O connectivity on a stable <BR>> platform and the =
>>>>>incredible=20
>>>>>(and to me, fast & intuitive) routing options <BR>> than the =
>>>>>plugins. the=20
>>>>>plugins and synths were icing on the cake for me. I <BR>> really =
>>>>>never=20
>>>>>expected to give up my UAD cards but if the 3rd party plugins <BR>> =
>>>>>are to my=20
>>>>>liking and I get sick of mixing on three platforms, I just might.. =
>>>>><BR>> In=20
>>>>>the meantime, the stability and the routing were the major ticket IMO.
>>>>>=
>>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>>The routing has saved me lots of $$$ because it allows the Scope =
>>>>>platform to=20
>>>>><BR>> be used as a digital patchbay, enhancing what I already have =
>>>>>here that=20
>>>>>I was <BR>> getting ready to expand.. These two things were worth the =
>>>>>price=20
>>>>>of <BR>> admission.<BR>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> ;o)<BR>> =
>>>>><BR>>=20
>>>>>"Neil" <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>>size=3D2>OIUOIU@OIU.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote =
>>>>>in message=20
>>>>></FONT><A href=3D"news:45952a49$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>>size=3D2>news:45952a49$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
>>>>>size=3D2>...<BR>>><BR>>> Yeah, this looks like the same =
>>>>>thing as their=20
>>>>>"Mix & Master<BR>>> Pack", which I also have... this is =
>>>>>another=20
>>>>>problem with the<BR>>> Creamware stuff - they have a couple of =
>>>>>different=20
>>>>>names for<BR>>> every product, and it's confusing (can't help =
>>>>>their=20
>>>>>marketing<BR>>> efforts any, either); it's like they decided to =
>>>>>rename=20
>>>>>their<BR>>> entire product line, but never dropped the old names,=20
>>>>>either.<BR>>><BR>>> Anyway, yes, to me this looks like the =
>>>>>exact=20
>>>>>same thing as what<BR>>> they now call their Mix & Master =
>>>>>Pack, and=20
>>>>>IMO, YMMV, etc, some<BR>>> of the FX are useful, and some of 'em =
>>>>>are total=20
>>>>>crap... or more<BR>>> accurately, some are useful, some are crap, =
>>>>>some=20
>>>>>don't seem to<BR>>> do much of anything at all and so you have to =
>>>>>wonder:=20
>>>>>"why<BR>>> bother even writing this plugin?". I noticed in one of=20
>>>>>the<BR>>> Pulsar forum threads the other day where someone =
>>>>>mentioned=20
>>>>>that<BR>>> you have to get the Vinco compressor in the red before =
>>>>>it=20
>>>>>does<BR>>> anything. I didn't find that to be the case, but then I =
>>>>>
>>>>>haven't<BR>>> tried it on low-level signals (and maybe they=20
>>>>>were<BR>>> exaggerating a bit).<BR>>><BR>>> Also, =
>>>>>Aaron, what=20
>>>>>they mention on that page you liked to (down<BR>>> at the bottom =
>>>>>of the=20
>>>>>page) with regard to the list<BR>>> of "plugins", well some of 'em =
>>>>>ain't=20
>>>>>exactly plugins!. I'll<BR>>> paste that list in & run through =
>>>>>it in=20
>>>>>the order they mention<BR>>> the items (my comments in parenthesis =
>>>>>
>>>>>below):<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb Pro (a pretty=20
>>>>>nice-sounding reverb, IMO. Not raving<BR>>> about it, necessarily, =
>>>>>but it=20
>>>>>sucketh not).<BR>>><BR>>> *Optimaster (this is something =
>>>>>like=20
>>>>>Izotope's Ozone... a Multi-<BR>>> EFX mastering app. It's got a=20
>>>>>Compressor, a limiter, expander,<BR>>> all multi-band (3 bands). =
>>>>>It's not=20
>>>>>as versatile as Ozone, and<BR>>> doesn't have a stereo spread =
>>>>>section (or=20
>>>>>a reverb, but that<BR>>> would be your "MasterVerb", above), but =
>>>>>it sounds=20
>>>>>pretty good,<BR>>> I think - very smooth. The limiter is either =
>>>>>totally=20
>>>>>incapable<BR>>> of brickwaling, or I haven't figured out how to =
>>>>>get it=20
>>>>>there,<BR>>> because I've had to adjust the master level down to =
>>>>>avoid=20
>>>>>overs<BR>>> even when using this. It has a bunch of presets (not =
>>>>>all of=20
>>>>>the<BR>>> plugins do), some of which seem pretty useful as=20
>>>>>starting<BR>>> points. I wouldn't want to run a Mastering house =
>>>>>using=20
>>>>>this<BR>>> application, so their choice of name may be stretching =
>>>>>things=20
>>>>>a<BR>>> bit, but if you want to strap something nice & smooth =
>>>>>&=20
>>>>>clear-<BR>>> sounding/uncolored across your Pulsar mixer's 2-buss, =
>>>>>then=20
>>>>>this<BR>>> would be the one to use).<BR>>><BR>>> =
>>>>>*Vinco=20
>>>>>Vintage Compressor (a one-trick pony dead-on (at least<BR>>> as =
>>>>>far as I=20
>>>>>can tell from what I've run through it so far)<BR>>> emulation of =
>>>>>an 1176,=20
>>>>>but cleaner - maybe a little<BR>>> less "attitude". I've never =
>>>>>found the=20
>>>>>'76's to be all that<BR>>> useful, personally, but for those who =
>>>>>lust=20
>>>>>after them, his<BR>>> one's not a bad clone at=20
>>>>>all.<BR>>><BR>>> *PSY-Q (Totally fuckin' useless attempt at =
>>>>>a stereo=20
>>>>>spread<BR>>> modifer... as I think I pointed out before, this =
>>>>>thing=20
>>>>>has<BR>>> about two degress of variance before it starts chewing =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>hell<BR>>> out of your signal & barfing up something almost=20
>>>>>vaguely<BR>>> resembling music. A waste of code, IMO). Want a =
>>>>>killer=20
>>>>>stereo<BR>>> spread modifier? Get the one that comes in Ozone =
>>>>>instead.=20
>>>>>It's<BR>>> the only good one I've heard since the Bedini=20
>>>>>B.A.S.E.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> *Surroundmixer =
>>>>>STM-48s<BR>>>=20
>>>>>*Production Mixer STM-2448<BR>>> *Inline Mixer =
>>>>>STM-1632<BR>>> (OK,=20
>>>>>absolutely NONE of these are really plugins... they're<BR>>> =
>>>>>MIXERS, one=20
>>>>>of which you have to have in your routing window &<BR>>> be =
>>>>>able to=20
>>>>>route signals through it in order to actually MIX -<BR>>> or =
>>>>>sum -=20
>>>>>anything!<BR>>> See, the routing window works something like =
>>>>>this... you=20
>>>>>drop<BR>>> in a module that represents where your signal is coming =
>>>>>
>>>>>from,<BR>>> then you drop in a mixer module - you pick the =
>>>>>smallest=20
>>>>>mixer<BR>>> you really need, because the bigger the mixer, the =
>>>>>more=20
>>>>>DSP<BR>>> power it takes - then you drop in a module that=20
>>>>>represents<BR>>> where you want your signal to go FROM the mixer, =
>>>>>and in a=20
>>>>>very<BR>>> small nutshell, that's it. The different modules get=20
>>>>>connected<BR>>> very much like how you do it in Paris' virtual=20
>>>>>patchbay.<BR>>><BR>>> The part about "where your signal is =
>>>>>coming=20
>>>>>from" could mean a<BR>>> hardware input (ADAT/Analog/SPDIF/AES) or =
>>>>>it=20
>>>>>could mean a<BR>>> software/ASIO input (like for example if you =
>>>>>were=20
>>>>>running<BR>>> Cubase or Nuendo or whatnot & you had a =
>>>>>36-channel mix=20
>>>>>going on<BR>>> & you wanted to run each channel individually =
>>>>>through=20
>>>>>the<BR>>> Pulsar DSP mixer, you'd drop in an "ASIO Source" module, =
>>>>>do=20
>>>>>a<BR>>> couple other things that I don't want to get into right=20
>>>>>now,<BR>>> and connect tha module to the mixer in your routing=20
>>>>>window...<BR>>> now if it's a 32-channel mix you couldn't use the =
>>>>>"1632"=20
>>>>>mixer<BR>>> mentioned above, because you'd be four channels short, =
>>>>>so=20
>>>>>you'd<BR>>> have to select the 48-channel mixer to get all those=20
>>>>>channels<BR>>> individually. The part about "where you want your =
>>>>>signal to=20
>>>>>go<BR>>> to FROM the mixer" is similar... do you want it to go to=20
>>>>>analog<BR>>> outs? Straight to somewhere on the hard disk? Back =
>>>>>into=20
>>>>>your<BR>>> native app on 2 new tracks so you can keep the mixes in =
>>>>>
>>>>>the<BR>>> same project? A combination of Analog outs for=20
>>>>>monitoring<BR>>> purposes, lightpipe outs to your Alesis =
>>>>>Masterlink, and=20
>>>>>also<BR>>> straight to the hard disk for a backup copy, all at =
>>>>>once?=20
>>>>>You<BR>>> can do this, too.<BR>>><BR>>> *MasterVerb =
>>>>>Classic=20
>>>>>(seems to me like the same basic algo's as<BR>>> the MasterVerb, =
>>>>>but=20
>>>>>without as much control and a different<BR>>> GUI - haven't messed =
>>>>>with it=20
>>>>>enough to be able to tell if it<BR>>> sounds much different or=20
>>>>>not)<BR>>><BR>>> *Compressor, Limiter, Gate, Expander,=20
>>>>>(plain-vanilla dynamics<BR>>> plugs without any form of coloration =
>>>>>or=20
>>>>>attitude whatsover...<BR>>> great if that's what you want, *YAWN* =
>>>>>if it's=20
>>>>>not.)<BR>>><BR>>> *Parametric EQ, 4-Pole, HighCut Filter, =
>>>>>LowCut=20
>>>>>Filter,<BR>>> (OK, I THOUGHT I was going to go in the order they=20
>>>>>mentioned<BR>>> it, but these needed to be grouped together... =
>>>>>these are=20
>>>>>all<BR>>> the same basic EQ plugin, and the only reason I think =
>>>>>they=20
>>>>>make<BR>>> them "separate" plugins is to give you the choice to=20
>>>>>conserve<BR>>> DSP if you only need one band (hi cut or lo cut, =
>>>>>for=20
>>>>>example) -<BR>>> again, if there was a way to get more plain than=20
>>>>>plain<BR>>> vanilla... how about a soy-based vanilla? - then that =
>>>>>would=20
>>>>>be<BR>>> the way to describe these plugins. Looking for a nice =
>>>>>phat=20
>>>>>Neve-<BR>>> ish, phasey, smeary, analog EQ... y'aint gonna find it =
>>>>>
>>>>>here,<BR>>> al. Phase-linear - I'm guessing - to the point of: "Is =
>>>>>it=20
>>>>>even<BR>>> ON?" is the game here. Clean? Yep. Musical?=20
>>>>>Nope.<BR>>><BR>>> *Filter, Chorus, 4-Tap, Chorus, Flanger, =
>>>>>Phaser,=20
>>>>>Delay, Dual<BR>>> Delay, AutoPan, AutoWah, Distortion, =
>>>>>Dither/Shaper,=20
>>>>>Early<BR>>> Reflector, Harmonic Chorus/Flanger, Multitap Delay,=20
>>>>>Overdrive,<BR>>> Pitch Shifter, Resonator, RingModulator,=20
>>>>>Tremolo<BR>>><BR>>> I haven't used ANY of the delays yet, =
>>>>>but most=20
>>>>>of the<BR>>> modulation EFX all appear to be cut from the same =
>>>>>mold, in=20
>>>>>the<BR>>> manner of the different EQ plugs - most of the mod EFX=20
>>>>>are<BR>>> pretty funky, and something I wouldn't use, so I can't=20
>>>>>really<BR>>> comment much on these. The dither has quite a few=20
>>>>>settings,<BR>>> some of which sound OK, and some of which sound =
>>>>>like=20
>>>>>crap...<BR>>> there's about ninetymillion dither/noise-shaping =
>>>>>algos=20
>>>>>out<BR>>> there now, so I'm not even sure what some of the=20
>>>>>presets<BR>>> represent! Anyway, to sum it all up, this batch=20
>>>>>above<BR>>> represents really about 4 total plugin's (Delay,=20
>>>>>Modulation,<BR>>> Dither, and Distortion) that happen to be broken =
>>>>>up into=20
>>>>>a<BR>>> number of sub-applets for probably both convenience=20
>>>>>and<BR>>> conservation of DSP... can't blame 'em for=20
>>>>>that.<BR>>><BR>>> This above3 lsit of stuff, as far as I can =
>>>>>tell=20
>>>>>(unless I'm<BR>>> missing something somewhere) is identical to =
>>>>>what you'd=20
>>>>>get if<BR>>> you select their Mix & Master pack as the =
>>>>>software=20
>>>>>option<BR>>> if you order either the "Home" card ($450-ish with 3 =
>>>>>DSP=20
>>>>>chips)<BR>>> or the "Project" card ($750-ish with 6 DSP chips)... =
>>>>>Thad got=20
>>>>>a<BR>>> special they have for the "Professional" card ($1,250-ish=20
>>>>>with<BR>>> 14 DSP chps) wherein if you buy that card you get both =
>>>>>the=20
>>>>>Mix<BR>>> & Master pack PLUS the Synths & Samplers pack =
>>>>>(which I=20
>>>>>know<BR>>> nothing about since I don't have that software=20
>>>>>bundle).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Argh... tired of typing now =
>>>>>- will=20
>>>>>fill you in on the confusing<BR>>> differences between the names =
>>>>>of the=20
>>>>>cards (both new AND old/yet<BR>>> continuing to be referenced in =
>>>>>their own=20
>>>>>literature), and the<BR>>> different i/o options you have to pick =
>>>>>from=20
>>>>>later on.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Neil <BR>>=20
>>>>><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77729 is a reply to message #77725] |
Sun, 31 December 2006 21:34 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
rate max but without them I will die. .
Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if I
would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
projects with higher sample
rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
sort. theoretically, I guess I could run the AES I/O of each of the hardware
boxes into some sort of SRC box, but since I'm returning these to the
ADI4-DD via lightpipe, I'm thinking that the bandwidth limitation would hose
this or limit me to 2 x processors in some sort of an SMUX setup The only
device I see on the market that might possibly accomplish this is the
ADI192-DD since it has onboard SRC and 8 x lightipe I/O so I'm thinking that
before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to need
to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using convoverbs
or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those nice
sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's the
CPU hit.
Now my head even hurts.
;o)
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:459882ee$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>Martin,
>>
>>I'm thinking that by bussing groups in the Scope mixer and attenuating the
>
>>groups by, say -12dB and the main mix by the same, using Pulsar DSP based
>
>>compressors on the individual channels I *may* be able to recreate
>>something
>
>>similar to the channel/submix/global mix gain staging of Paris.......then
>
>>again, I could just stick with Paris summing which is working perfectly
>
>>right now. I'm just sorta' thinking in terms of checking out some higher
>
>>sample rates that I won't be able to hear.
>>
>>HNY,
>>
>>;o)
>
> You'll be able to hear the difference. It's not all about
> what's up in the 30k-plus range, it's really about cleaning up
> the top end of what you ARE able to hear.
>
> I agree with Martin, though - I could never get my head around
> the configurations you're trying to make work LOL. Even with
> two machines, my rig is pretty simple
>
> Here's a pic... Cubase machine on the right, along with my main
> Multiface (up on top of the rack, next to the Portico) since
> most of what I mic is going to happen in that room behind to
> the right, whether it's drums, vocals, an acoustic guitar or
> other instrument... hence most of my preamps being in that
> rack, as well (the big empty space is where the ISA 428 goes,
> which is off having channel 4 fixed right now), I can lightpipe
> the 428 to the Multiface, for a total of 12 inputs on that side
> (I don't have a pre with SPDIF out, so it's the 8 analog & 4
> lightpipes per Multiface for me). Then on the other side is the
> Pulsar/Paris machine with it's monitor on top of the MEC.
> That's taking lightpipes from both Multifaces - the other of
> which you see is right underneath the left Dynaudio speaker, on
> top of the Grace 101's - which sit right there because if I'm
> micing electric guitar the amp/cabinets are going to be in that
> room behind to the left, and there's a 99.9% chance I'm going
> to use the Graces and/or the Focusrite Red 8, so having the
> Graces there is convenient. Having the Multiface on that side
> means I've got a convenient MIDI and analog hook-in for the
> other synth, also. Word Clock & Central Station underneath
> since I don't have to touch them much... Central Station analog
> in's (2 sets) gets fed by both the Pulsar outs & the Main
> Multiface outs, and its SPDIF in gets fed by the MEC's SPDIF
> out, so I can switch between 'em... and bada-bing! Simple!
>
> I'd like to get another rack for the left side, since there's
> a few things I don't have racked (a TL Audio channel strip & a
> couple of dbx comps, plus I could stick the MEC in there), but
> I want to find one that's short enough to keep that monitor
> screen at about the same height.
>
> I've seen pics of your racks & rig... I'd need four times the
> space to fit your setup in here! lol
>
> Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77730 is a reply to message #77729] |
Sun, 31 December 2006 21:42 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
O'yeah..I've already thought of just interfacing them via analog but this
would be too easy.
HNY!!!
;o)
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:45989a7a$1@linux...
> Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
> instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>
> Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
> hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
> Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
> rate max but without them I will die. .
>
> Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if I
> would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
> projects with higher sample
> rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
> sort. theoretically, I guess I could run the AES I/O of each of the
> hardware boxes into some sort of SRC box, but since I'm returning these to
> the
> ADI4-DD via lightpipe, I'm thinking that the bandwidth limitation would
> hose this or limit me to 2 x processors in some sort of an SMUX setup The
> only device I see on the market that might possibly accomplish this is the
> ADI192-DD since it has onboard SRC and 8 x lightipe I/O so I'm thinking
> that before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
> need to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
> convoverbs or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run
> those nice sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm
> thinking convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then
> there's the CPU hit.
>
> Now my head even hurts.
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:459882ee$1@linux...
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>Martin,
>>>
>>>I'm thinking that by bussing groups in the Scope mixer and attenuating
>>>the
>>
>>>groups by, say -12dB and the main mix by the same, using Pulsar DSP
>>>based
>>
>>>compressors on the individual channels I *may* be able to recreate
>>>something
>>
>>>similar to the channel/submix/global mix gain staging of Paris.......then
>>
>>>again, I could just stick with Paris summing which is working perfectly
>>
>>>right now. I'm just sorta' thinking in terms of checking out some higher
>>
>>>sample rates that I won't be able to hear.
>>>
>>>HNY,
>>>
>>>;o)
>>
>> You'll be able to hear the difference. It's not all about
>> what's up in the 30k-plus range, it's really about cleaning up
>> the top end of what you ARE able to hear.
>>
>> I agree with Martin, though - I could never get my head around
>> the configurations you're trying to make work LOL. Even with
>> two machines, my rig is pretty simple
>>
>> Here's a pic... Cubase machine on the right, along with my main
>> Multiface (up on top of the rack, next to the Portico) since
>> most of what I mic is going to happen in that room behind to
>> the right, whether it's drums, vocals, an acoustic guitar or
>> other instrument... hence most of my preamps being in that
>> rack, as well (the big empty space is where the ISA 428 goes,
>> which is off having channel 4 fixed right now), I can lightpipe
>> the 428 to the Multiface, for a total of 12 inputs on that side
>> (I don't have a pre with SPDIF out, so it's the 8 analog & 4
>> lightpipes per Multiface for me). Then on the other side is the
>> Pulsar/Paris machine with it's monitor on top of the MEC.
>> That's taking lightpipes from both Multifaces - the other of
>> which you see is right underneath the left Dynaudio speaker, on
>> top of the Grace 101's - which sit right there because if I'm
>> micing electric guitar the amp/cabinets are going to be in that
>> room behind to the left, and there's a 99.9% chance I'm going
>> to use the Graces and/or the Focusrite Red 8, so having the
>> Graces there is convenient. Having the Multiface on that side
>> means I've got a convenient MIDI and analog hook-in for the
>> other synth, also. Word Clock & Central Station underneath
>> since I don't have to touch them much... Central Station analog
>> in's (2 sets) gets fed by both the Pulsar outs & the Main
>> Multiface outs, and its SPDIF in gets fed by the MEC's SPDIF
>> out, so I can switch between 'em... and bada-bing! Simple!
>>
>> I'd like to get another rack for the left side, since there's
>> a few things I don't have racked (a TL Audio channel strip & a
>> couple of dbx comps, plus I could stick the MEC in there), but
>> I want to find one that's short enough to keep that monitor
>> screen at about the same height.
>>
>> I've seen pics of your racks & rig... I'd need four times the
>> space to fit your setup in here! lol
>>
>> Neil
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77745 is a reply to message #77729] |
Mon, 01 January 2007 09:14 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>
>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
>rate max but without them I will die. .
>
>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if
I
>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>projects with higher sample
>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
>sort.
I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to need
>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using convoverbs
>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those nice
>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's the
>CPU hit.
And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
currently have & like, so you have three options:
1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
system stable as it is.
2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
afterthought.
>Now my head even hurts.
Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
move! lol
Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77746 is a reply to message #77745] |
Mon, 01 January 2007 09:26 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>
>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
>
>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>
>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if
> I
>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>projects with higher sample
>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
>
>>sort.
>
> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>
>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to need
>
>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>convoverbs
>
>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those nice
>
>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's the
>
>>CPU hit.
>
> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>
> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
> system stable as it is.
> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
> afterthought.
>
>>Now my head even hurts.
>
> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
> move! lol
>
> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>
> Neil
Yeah...I tried it using at 96k. The processors would not sync through my RME
ADI4-DD that the devices are interfacing with (and which is synced to my
WC). there was kust no response from the processors.That's what I expected.
I checked in at the RME forum last night and the deal is that the ADI192-DD
will do this, but it takes two of them to pull it off. That's around
$2400.00. That analog cabling is starting to look like good stuff ;o)
I'll get you something to listen to today.
;o)
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77759 is a reply to message #77745] |
Mon, 01 January 2007 17:48 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
;o)
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>
>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
>
>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>
>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if
> I
>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>projects with higher sample
>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
>
>>sort.
>
> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>
>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to need
>
>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>convoverbs
>
>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those nice
>
>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's the
>
>>CPU hit.
>
> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>
> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
> system stable as it is.
> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
> afterthought.
>
>>Now my head even hurts.
>
> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
> move! lol
>
> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>
> Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77760 is a reply to message #77759] |
Mon, 01 January 2007 17:57 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
AA
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
> POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>
>
> CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>
> ;o)
>
> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>
>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
>>
>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>
>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if
>> I
>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>projects with higher sample
>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
>>
>>>sort.
>>
>> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>
>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>need
>>
>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>convoverbs
>>
>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>nice
>>
>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's
>>>the
>>
>>>CPU hit.
>>
>> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>
>> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>> system stable as it is.
>> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>> afterthought.
>>
>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>
>> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>> move! lol
>>
>> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>
>> Neil
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77767 is a reply to message #77760] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 07:24 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
PM me with an addy I can answer.
;o)
animix-at-animas-dot-com
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
news:4599b94e@linux...
>I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
>
> AA
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
>> POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>
>>
>> CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>>
>>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
>>>
>>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>>
>>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if
>>> I
>>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>>projects with higher sample
>>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
>>>
>>>>sort.
>>>
>>> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>>> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>>> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>>> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>>> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>>> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>>
>>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>>need
>>>
>>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>>convoverbs
>>>
>>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>>nice
>>>
>>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's
>>>>the
>>>
>>>>CPU hit.
>>>
>>> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>>> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>>> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>>
>>> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>>> system stable as it is.
>>> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>>> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>>> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>>> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>>> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>>> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>>> afterthought.
>>>
>>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>>
>>> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>>> move! lol
>>>
>>> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>>> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>>> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77768 is a reply to message #77760] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 07:28 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Nevermind. I've got the green light to post his
http://saqqararecords.com/MiscAudio/I Knew How Far-Animix.mp3
I can't get this link to work but if you click on the part of it that does,
then copy the part that doesn't, It will play.
I'll probably roll some of the verb off the mando in the intro before it's
all over.
Cheers,
Deej
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
news:4599b94e@linux...
>I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
>
> AA
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
>> POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>
>>
>> CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>>
>>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k sample
>>>
>>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>>
>>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering if
>>> I
>>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>>projects with higher sample
>>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of some
>>>
>>>>sort.
>>>
>>> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>>> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>>> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>>> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>>> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>>> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>>
>>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>>need
>>>
>>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>>convoverbs
>>>
>>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>>nice
>>>
>>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's
>>>>the
>>>
>>>>CPU hit.
>>>
>>> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>>> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>>> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>>
>>> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>>> system stable as it is.
>>> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>>> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>>> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>>> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>>> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>>> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>>> afterthought.
>>>
>>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>>
>>> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>>> move! lol
>>>
>>> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>>> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>>> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77769 is a reply to message #77768] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 07:34 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In fact, I may roll the verb off the vocal a bit too. It's a little washy to
my ears this morning. That's the problem with the Quantec. I keep wanting to
hear it a bit too much.
;oD
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:459a772e$1@linux...
> Nevermind. I've got the green light to post his
>
> http://saqqararecords.com/MiscAudio/I Knew How Far-Animix.mp3
>
> I can't get this link to work but if you click on the part of it that
> does, then copy the part that doesn't, It will play.
>
> I'll probably roll some of the verb off the mando in the intro before it's
> all over.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Deej
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
> news:4599b94e@linux...
>>I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
>>
>> AA
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
>>> POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>
>>>
>>> CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k
>>>>>sample
>>>>
>>>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>>>
>>>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering
>>>>>if
>>>> I
>>>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>>>projects with higher sample
>>>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of
>>>>>some
>>>>
>>>>>sort.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>>>> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>>>> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>>>> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>>>> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>>>> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>>>
>>>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>>>need
>>>>
>>>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>>>convoverbs
>>>>
>>>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>>>nice
>>>>
>>>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's
>>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>CPU hit.
>>>>
>>>> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>>>> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>>>> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>>>
>>>> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>>>> system stable as it is.
>>>> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>>>> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>>>> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>>>> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>>>> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>>>> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>>>> afterthought.
>>>>
>>>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>>>
>>>> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>>>> move! lol
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>>>> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>>>> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77772 is a reply to message #77769] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 08:01 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yeah, I hear the wash on the mando, but I'm not quite sure (I've got the
flu, head clogged at the moment so take it with that info) that the vocal is
out of place. Perhaps just a little EQing out of the mids/upper mids on that
verb to place it back a little? A spatializer might also do the trick on the
return insert to widen the verb.
AA
"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:459a787c@linux...
> In fact, I may roll the verb off the vocal a bit too. It's a little washy
> to my ears this morning. That's the problem with the Quantec. I keep
> wanting to hear it a bit too much.
>
> ;oD
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:459a772e$1@linux...
>> Nevermind. I've got the green light to post his
>>
>> http://saqqararecords.com/MiscAudio/I Knew How Far-Animix.mp3
>>
>> I can't get this link to work but if you click on the part of it that
>> does, then copy the part that doesn't, It will play.
>>
>> I'll probably roll some of the verb off the mando in the intro before
>> it's all over.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Deej
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>> news:4599b94e@linux...
>>>I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
>>>
>>> AA
>>>
>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
>>>> POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k
>>>>>>sample
>>>>>
>>>>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering
>>>>>>if
>>>>> I
>>>>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>>>>projects with higher sample
>>>>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of
>>>>>>some
>>>>>
>>>>>>sort.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>>>>> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>>>>> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>>>>> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>>>>> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>>>>> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>>>>
>>>>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>>>>need
>>>>>
>>>>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>>>>convoverbs
>>>>>
>>>>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>>>>nice
>>>>>
>>>>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's
>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>CPU hit.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>>>>> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>>>>> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>>>>> system stable as it is.
>>>>> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>>>>> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>>>>> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>>>>> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>>>>> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>>>>> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>>>>> afterthought.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>>>>> move! lol
>>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>>>>> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>>>>> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77773 is a reply to message #77772] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 08:02 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
BTW, nice work man. Very present and believable mix you got cooking there.
AA
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
news:459a7f26@linux...
> Yeah, I hear the wash on the mando, but I'm not quite sure (I've got the
> flu, head clogged at the moment so take it with that info) that the vocal
> is out of place. Perhaps just a little EQing out of the mids/upper mids on
> that verb to place it back a little? A spatializer might also do the trick
> on the return insert to widen the verb.
>
> AA
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:459a787c@linux...
>> In fact, I may roll the verb off the vocal a bit too. It's a little washy
>> to my ears this morning. That's the problem with the Quantec. I keep
>> wanting to hear it a bit too much.
>>
>> ;oD
>>
>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:459a772e$1@linux...
>>> Nevermind. I've got the green light to post his
>>>
>>> http://saqqararecords.com/MiscAudio/I Knew How Far-Animix.mp3
>>>
>>> I can't get this link to work but if you click on the part of it that
>>> does, then copy the part that doesn't, It will play.
>>>
>>> I'll probably roll some of the verb off the mando in the intro before
>>> it's all over.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Deej
>>>
>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>> news:4599b94e@linux...
>>>>I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
>>>>
>>>> AA
>>>>
>>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
>>>>> POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> ;o)
>>>>>
>>>>> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>>>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>>>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>>>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k
>>>>>>>sample
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering
>>>>>>>if
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>>>>>projects with higher sample
>>>>>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of
>>>>>>>some
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>sort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>>>>>> like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>>>>>> you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>>>>>> this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>>>>>> recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>>>>>> sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>>>>>need
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>>>>>convoverbs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>>>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then
>>>>>>>there's the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>CPU hit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>>>>>> the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>>>>>> currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>>>>>> system stable as it is.
>>>>>> 2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>>>>>> 3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>>>>>> know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>>>>>> majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>>>>>> in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>>>>>> domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>>>>>> afterthought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>>>>>> move! lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>>>>>> now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>>>>>> sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Scope FX.... anyone bit into this one yet? [message #77779 is a reply to message #77769] |
Tue, 02 January 2007 10:28 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
DJ,
Great mix. I'm hearing a little extra latency in th background vocals.
Is that intentional? Could be giving a little of that "washy" feeling.
My wife was loves it...what does Amy think?
Hoov
DJ wrote:
> In fact, I may roll the verb off the vocal a bit too. It's a little washy to
> my ears this morning. That's the problem with the Quantec. I keep wanting to
> hear it a bit too much.
>
> ;oD
>
> "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:459a772e$1@linux...
>
>>Nevermind. I've got the green light to post his
>>
>>http://saqqararecords.com/MiscAudio/I Knew How Far-Animix.mp3
>>
>>I can't get this link to work but if you click on the part of it that
>>does, then copy the part that doesn't, It will play.
>>
>>I'll probably roll some of the verb off the mando in the intro before it's
>>all over.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>news:4599b94e@linux...
>>
>>>I did.. not a thing in there from ya ;P
>>>
>>>AA
>>>
>>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote in message news:4599b6ec$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>;o)
>>>>
>>>>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45993350$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>"DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Nice setup Neil. You actually have computers that look like computers
>>>>>>instead of stacks of components in disarray like me..LOL!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here's another dilemma for me. I am digitally interfacing four older
>>>>>>hardware reverbs (Lexi PCM 91, Quantec Yardstick, Sony DPS V77 and
>>>>>>Roland R-880 with an RME ADI4-DD). These are only capable of 48k
>>>>>>sample
>>>>>
>>>>>>rate max but without them I will die. .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since I use these old hardware processors in parallel, I'm wondering
>>>>>>if
>>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>>
>>>>>>would even hear any sonic degradation if I could somehow sync them to
>>>>>>projects with higher sample
>>>>>>rates, I was thinking of trying to upsample them using a SRC box of
>>>>>>some
>>>>>
>>>>>>sort.
>>>>>
>>>>>I doubt you'd hear any sonic degradation - they'd sound just
>>>>>like they ought to sound as long as you had a good SRC. But if
>>>>>you mean you could try it WITHOUT upsampling them, well, then
>>>>>this just won't work - the receiving device would either not
>>>>>recognize the input at all, or it would pass a signal that
>>>>>sounded something like: "blithr-blathr-bblbblbbl-BLAT!"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>before I get to far into this higher sample rate stuff, I am going to
>>>>>>need
>>>>>
>>>>>>to jump through some more insane hoops.either that or start using
>>>>>>convoverbs
>>>>>
>>>>>>or trade my Pulsar Project cards in for Pro models so I can run those
>>>>>>nice
>>>>>
>>>>>>sonic timeworks and Masterverbs at higher samplerates. I'm thinking
>>>>>>convolution reverbs would definitely be the cheapest, but then there's
>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>CPU hit.
>>>>>
>>>>>And the Pulsarverbs & convoverbs aren't going to to give you
>>>>>the same sounds as you're getting out of the items you
>>>>>currently have & like, so you have three options:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.) Never bother with anything above 48k and just keep your
>>>>>system stable as it is.
>>>>>2.) Get one of those newer RME SRC's.
>>>>>3.) Run your outboard verbs out & in via analog... ideally, I
>>>>>know you want to stay in digital, but don't forget, the vast
>>>>>majority of everything you've heard these reverbs on was done
>>>>>in analog - they were designed to work primarily in the analog
>>>>>domain & the digital ins & outs were more or less simply an
>>>>>afterthought.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Now my head even hurts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not as much as mine does when trying to figure out your next
>>>>>move! lol
>>>>>
>>>>>Why don't you quit beta-testing for awhile & make some music
>>>>>now that you have a stable-as-hell rig that you're loing the
>>>>>sound of? POST SOME MIXES, DAMMIT - WE WANNA HEAR IT! lol
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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