Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » OT: 64 bit -Microsoft Vista discusion) irritating.
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| Re: OT: 64 bit -Microsoft Vista (discussion) irritating. [message #89496 is a reply to message #89478] |
Sat, 08 September 2007 11:03   |
LaMon
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2007
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Junior Member |
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Hey Man,
look, ask those guys on Nuendo.com how they spent on their Native PC rigs,
you'd be shocked.. Plus, and I'm speaking of myself as well..As soon as AMD
or Intel inroduces another new whiz bang chip, say 8 core or 16 core processors,
we jump and rebuild our etire systems.. Yes, at first it SEEMS not that expensive...But,
If really honest and do the math from the time you Native...You'd be shocked
at you , Me and others have spent with trying to reach that Native Nirvana..
In the time I started using Nuendo (2002), I have upgraded 4 times.
The PC DAW builders including myself, was happy as well the music store outlets,
and Like James M states the Manufacturers who know they have the elusive
bait with the Native user market..
Let's not even talk about lost productivity with reiventing your Pc every
2 years..Chasing and waiting on DAW maufactuers to Catch up with the new
hardware offerings.. This is the very scenario that prompted me to start
this thread..
we just spec'ed out a new PT HD 3 for another room at the studio..Sweetwater
rep go t back with us with a price of 25K with a slew of top of the line
plugs. But, just for discussion sake, I personally don;t need a PT 3HD, a
HD2accel wol dmore than do..128 tracks, really flexible mixer and routing..nero
zero latency for say with I/O 14-15k...And this can run on a 500 pc an or
old mac ..
I'm not saying that PT is the bell end all, but rather just making point
as to how much is the real TCO -Total Cost Of Ownership of staying with
high-end Native.
It's big bucks for them..So, like the commercial states: You can pay me now,
Or you can Pay me later..
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>I guarantee you the Native is way more expensive in the long run, than
a
>>Pro Tools HD 3Acell rig..
>
>Well, that's just bullshit Lamont, because I can guarantee you
>- whether you choose to believe it or not - that I've not spent
>$20k-$25k on Native-related upgrades, hardware reconfigs, etc
>since HD3 came out. And my shit is competitive, if not better
>than what can be cranked out on an HD system - you've heard it
>yourself and said as much.
>Frankly, I don't even see how you could get CLOSE to the cost of
>an HD system in the Native Realm unless you went with MADI for
>hardware & Nuendo or Samplitude (the most expensive Native apps
>to my knowledge) on the soft side.
>
>Neil
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| Re: OT: 64 bit -Microsoft Vista discusion) irritating. [message #89502 is a reply to message #89452] |
Sat, 08 September 2007 12:58 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46e1c65d$1@linux...
>
> Well, LaMont, I'll go back to my tried and true response. Native users
> really
> want the power of [Pro Tools HD/SSL 9k/fill in blank] natively. Well, I
> really
> want to bang Scarlett Johansson but all the wanting it in the world won't
> make it so.
............and whoda' thunk that gawky little thing would end up being such
a hottie when she debuted in the Horse Whisperer?
>
> Don't take this too personally but I get a little sick of the 'power
> users'
> simultaneously turning their noses up at the 'bedroom studio' market
> segment
> while at the same time wanting everything in native land to be cheap,
> super
> powerful, and easy to use. If the crap that us 'bedroom' guys use can't
> get
> it done, well since you're so power user go off and spend a few million on
> a Neve desk and a boatload of fancy hardware. Good on ya. It also hacks me
> off that the 'bedroom studio' computer geeks like me spent nearly a decade
> getting our noses bloody and doing the ditch digging to help get
> nativeland
> working only to be told that we don't know what the hell we're talking
> about.
Ya know, I just dug up a big pile of those old Home Recording magazines when
cleaning out an old closet. I've been segregating them from the rest of my
audio porn (which, with the exception of a few issues) will soon be
relegated to the shredder to make excelsiorlike material for igniting
kindling in our big fireplace since it's getting cold here now at night (mid
40's is the norm-trees are turning already)
Those HR mags are still a good read because they talk about how do do
something instead of how warm tubes sound..Guess I'll never be a power suer
since every time I open HR, I actually learn something I didn't know, even
after almost 10 years at this.
Hmmmm.......well.........so much for my OT rant
;o)
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| Re: OT: 64 bit -Microsoft Vista discusion) irritating. [message #89513 is a reply to message #89474] |
Sat, 08 September 2007 16:27 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Dedric Terry wrote:
> On 9/7/07 8:06 PM, in article 46e20390$1@linux, "James McCloskey"
> <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>>> I think the moral of the story is that pro audio is best handled by
>>> developers in that market, not companies more interested in selling
>>> operating systems, home computers, and/or iToys.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dedric
>
>
>> Dedric, your comment insinuates that Apple is a toy company that does not
>> make serious computers, that is a slam. Apple products are not toys. Right
>
> You are right, it might insinuate that, but it wasn't intended to be a jab
> at Macs, but just a reference to the consumer/entertainment level apps that
> are at the forefront of Apple's marketing - they aren't sub-par apps for
> what they do - but they are home/entertainment apps when compared to
> workplace apps like Photoshop, Nuendo/ProTools, Final Cut Pro, etc, so let's
> not kid ourselves that Apple is intent on marketing a Mac to the average
> CompUsa or BestBuy shopper based on Final Cut Pro's gaussian blur rendering
> speed, or the number of instances of Kontakt Logic can run. Neither is
> Microsoft.
Marketing to one market doesn't exclude the other, so it can't be a
legitimately serious put down of the Mac, as you say. Clearly Apple is
also marketing decent products to professional media folks at the same
time, and have been for years.
> No, Macs are not toys, and Apple does a good job of putting together a
> complete package with useful and nicely designed apps for the
> home/entertainment user, and can be useful in the workplace as well.
>
> But, James, you are overly sensitive to any mention of Macs and always
> assume it's negative. Try to lighten up a bit and read more objectively.
> It would make conversing about platform pros and cons (yes, they have both),
> much easier and informative, which is what this forum is usually about.
>
> To that end, let's just settle the hardware cost/quality debate once and for
> all:
>
> Open up a new dual core 2 Mac pro, spec the cpus (dual 6600 etc),
> motherboard (which will be name/brandless I am guessing, so just supply the
> specs (I/O, drive ports, max ram, fsb, etc) and a photo), hard drive bays,
> drive models, capacity and number, ram brand and specs, power supply
> brand/model/power rating, DVD drive brand/model, etc. Seriously - it would
> better serve users who are highly tech savvy to know what they are getting
> should they/we decide to buy a Mac at some point, rather than always getting
> the same generic defensive posture from Mac users - let's put it all to the
> test. I couldn't care less which is cheaper, or a better bang for the buck
> - I just want to see that for once we could have an objective discussion
> about them on this forum, and put real numbers to the defensive speculating
> on the Mac end.
There are a couple of web sites that regularly review the hardware specs
and performance.
Beyond just the pile of components and the case they come in, the
elegance of the OS matters to some folks. So whether the whole package
is worth it or not is a judgment call.
Things I think about include the total system abilities and speed, the
elegance of integration between apps, the amount of time it does (or
doesn't) take to keep the system running, the useful life of the system,
and the overall reliability over that life. Time is money, so initial
cost is just one consideration (not an unimportant consideration, but
not the only consideration).
Based on their own considerations, different people with different
experiences and expectations choose different systems, which helps keep
the market at least somewhat vibrant given the few choices remaining.
> As far as service, I'm sure Apple's service is good (I have film/video
> producer friends I work with that have used it, several times...), but the
> service I got from Staples/HP the one time I had to use it, was, however
> surprisingly, much better and way faster - can't beat 20 minutes from dead
> PC to new one that is twice as fast, not a refurb, no bench test, no
> shipping costs - that rivals golden support packages from high tech
> companies, esp. considering that Staples is only 300 yds from my office ;-).
That sounds pretty handy. They just put a Staples up near my old house
in Conifer. It would have been nice to have that when I lived there...
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Dedric
>
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| Re: OT: 64 bit -Microsoft Vista (discussion) irritating. [message #89522 is a reply to message #89496] |
Sat, 08 September 2007 18:31 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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Hi Lamont,
The vast majority of people that make a living using Nuendo, Cubase or
another app for that matter do not upgrade their systems that often.
The vast majority of people who waste bandwidth on Steinies, Cakewalk's
and even DUC are at best enthusiasts on par with DIY gamer kids.
But thats mainly the companies fault for not managing their forums better.
Chris
LaMont wrote:
> Hey Man,
> look, ask those guys on Nuendo.com how they spent on their Native PC rigs,
> you'd be shocked.. Plus, and I'm speaking of myself as well..As soon as AMD
> or Intel inroduces another new whiz bang chip, say 8 core or 16 core processors,
> we jump and rebuild our etire systems.. Yes, at first it SEEMS not that expensive...But,
> If really honest and do the math from the time you Native...You'd be shocked
> at you , Me and others have spent with trying to reach that Native Nirvana..
>
> In the time I started using Nuendo (2002), I have upgraded 4 times.
> The PC DAW builders including myself, was happy as well the music store outlets,
> and Like James M states the Manufacturers who know they have the elusive
> bait with the Native user market..
>
> Let's not even talk about lost productivity with reiventing your Pc every
> 2 years..Chasing and waiting on DAW maufactuers to Catch up with the new
> hardware offerings.. This is the very scenario that prompted me to start
> this thread..
>
> we just spec'ed out a new PT HD 3 for another room at the studio..Sweetwater
> rep go t back with us with a price of 25K with a slew of top of the line
> plugs. But, just for discussion sake, I personally don;t need a PT 3HD, a
> HD2accel wol dmore than do..128 tracks, really flexible mixer and routing..nero
> zero latency for say with I/O 14-15k...And this can run on a 500 pc an or
> old mac ..
>
> I'm not saying that PT is the bell end all, but rather just making point
> as to how much is the real TCO -Total Cost Of Ownership of staying with
> high-end Native.
>
>
> It's big bucks for them..So, like the commercial states: You can pay me now,
> Or you can Pay me later..
>
>
>
> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I guarantee you the Native is way more expensive in the long run, than
>>>
> a
>
>>> Pro Tools HD 3Acell rig..
>>>
>> Well, that's just bullshit Lamont, because I can guarantee you
>> - whether you choose to believe it or not - that I've not spent
>> $20k-$25k on Native-related upgrades, hardware reconfigs, etc
>> since HD3 came out. And my shit is competitive, if not better
>> than what can be cranked out on an HD system - you've heard it
>> yourself and said as much.
>> Frankly, I don't even see how you could get CLOSE to the cost of
>> an HD system in the Native Realm unless you went with MADI for
>> hardware & Nuendo or Samplitude (the most expensive Native apps
>> to my knowledge) on the soft side.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
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| Re: OT: 64 bit -Microsoft Vista (discussion) irritating. [message #89524 is a reply to message #89522] |
Sat, 08 September 2007 19:03 |
LaMon
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2007
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Junior Member |
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Chris, man have you been ont the Neundo's harware userlist site of late? Man,
they are always specing new PC rig setups. In my circle, whenever INTEL or
AMD makes a statement about a new CPU, they are already planning their new
rig. And, they jump all the time..8 core, 4 cores ...Dual core..Dual Dual
cores
The only people I don't see on the upgrade war path :) are the Pr Tools HD
folks.
The PC market as you state has a very enthusiest mentality. And I agrre with
you, with the online forums, the Upgrade discussion are never ending. Now,
when you read your 'real-world" or beter State of what's really going on
with DAW manufacuers, you can see how the users on the PC and Mac side are
getting taking for and Expensive rider..
That's why I will always be a DSP DW guy first, a Native-via Mixer guy second..No
ITB box for me..Too expensive in the long run..
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>Hi Lamont,
>The vast majority of people that make a living using Nuendo, Cubase or
>another app for that matter do not upgrade their systems that often.
>The vast majority of people who waste bandwidth on Steinies, Cakewalk's
>and even DUC are at best enthusiasts on par with DIY gamer kids.
>But thats mainly the companies fault for not managing their forums better.
>Chris
>
>LaMont wrote:
>> Hey Man,
>> look, ask those guys on Nuendo.com how they spent on their Native PC rigs,
>> you'd be shocked.. Plus, and I'm speaking of myself as well..As soon as
AMD
>> or Intel inroduces another new whiz bang chip, say 8 core or 16 core processors,
>> we jump and rebuild our etire systems.. Yes, at first it SEEMS not that
expensive...But,
>> If really honest and do the math from the time you Native...You'd be shocked
>> at you , Me and others have spent with trying to reach that Native Nirvana..
>>
>> In the time I started using Nuendo (2002), I have upgraded 4 times.
>> The PC DAW builders including myself, was happy as well the music store
outlets,
>> and Like James M states the Manufacturers who know they have the elusive
>> bait with the Native user market..
>>
>> Let's not even talk about lost productivity with reiventing your Pc every
>> 2 years..Chasing and waiting on DAW maufactuers to Catch up with the new
>> hardware offerings.. This is the very scenario that prompted me to start
>> this thread..
>>
>> we just spec'ed out a new PT HD 3 for another room at the studio..Sweetwater
>> rep go t back with us with a price of 25K with a slew of top of the line
>> plugs. But, just for discussion sake, I personally don;t need a PT 3HD,
a
>> HD2accel wol dmore than do..128 tracks, really flexible mixer and routing..nero
>> zero latency for say with I/O 14-15k...And this can run on a 500 pc an
or
>> old mac ..
>>
>> I'm not saying that PT is the bell end all, but rather just making point
>> as to how much is the real TCO -Total Cost Of Ownership of staying with
>> high-end Native.
>>
>>
>> It's big bucks for them..So, like the commercial states: You can pay me
now,
>> Or you can Pay me later..
>>
>>
>>
>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guarantee you the Native is way more expensive in the long run, than
>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> Pro Tools HD 3Acell rig..
>>>>
>>> Well, that's just bullshit Lamont, because I can guarantee you
>>> - whether you choose to believe it or not - that I've not spent
>>> $20k-$25k on Native-related upgrades, hardware reconfigs, etc
>>> since HD3 came out. And my shit is competitive, if not better
>>> than what can be cranked out on an HD system - you've heard it
>>> yourself and said as much.
>>> Frankly, I don't even see how you could get CLOSE to the cost of
>>> an HD system in the Native Realm unless you went with MADI for
>>> hardware & Nuendo or Samplitude (the most expensive Native apps
>>> to my knowledge) on the soft side.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
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