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| Re: The music industry [message #79629 is a reply to message #79628] |
Tue, 06 February 2007 22:39   |
![Deej [4] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "Deej [4] is currently offline")
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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LOL!!!!............the sooner RAP evolves into something else entirely, the
sooner I will start listening to mainstream media music programming. I'm
just so sick of it. I got pretty sick of punk and grunge as well but those
had a much shorter run/quicker evolution into something more musically
interesting. I know RAP has evolved some as well, but not really for the
better, IMHO.
DJ
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:45c97237$1@linux...
>
>
> Err, I agree with your comments...
>
> ...I'm surprised you neglected however to express some surprise at the
> line
> "(a) Rock was a new genre in 2006."...
>
> ...err, so they missed it for what, 50 years?
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Music industry stats.
>>
>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>
>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>>surprised
>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it by
> watching
>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>than RAP.
>>
>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top ten
>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>Ferguson
>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
> and
>>set sales records???
>>
>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>
>>James
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79630 is a reply to message #79629] |
Tue, 06 February 2007 23:45 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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RAP... sucks...
R&B... sucks...
Rock doesn't suck, but I'm kinda over it...
....perhaps I'm over music and should try my luck as a juggler or something.
;o)
Cheers,
kim.
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>LOL!!!!............the sooner RAP evolves into something else entirely,
the
>sooner I will start listening to mainstream media music programming. I'm
>just so sick of it. I got pretty sick of punk and grunge as well but those
>had a much shorter run/quicker evolution into something more musically
>interesting. I know RAP has evolved some as well, but not really for the
>better, IMHO.
>
>DJ
>
>
>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:45c97237$1@linux...
>>
>>
>> Err, I agree with your comments...
>>
>> ...I'm surprised you neglected however to express some surprise at the
>> line
>> "(a) Rock was a new genre in 2006."...
>>
>> ...err, so they missed it for what, 50 years?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kim.
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Music industry stats.
>>>
>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>
>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>>>surprised
>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it by
>> watching
>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>>than RAP.
>>>
>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top ten
>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>>Ferguson
>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>> and
>>>set sales records???
>>>
>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>
>>>James
>>
>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79651 is a reply to message #79625] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 12:16 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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The distinction between 'R&B' and 'Rap' is at least as difficult as the difference
between 'Rock' 'Metal' and 'Alternative.' When R&B and Rap are added together
they obviously sell lots and lots of records.
Two other things. First, 'rap' is a verb, it's something someone does. 'Hip
hop' is a noun, a kind of music. 'He raps very well on his new hip hop song,
but I think the production is a little bland.' Lastly, IMHO by far the most
fertile ground for interesting new sounds is dancehall (essentially, Jamaican
hip hop) and the US/UK hip hop producers who are listening into those sounds.
People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was just
released.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Music industry stats.
>
> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>
>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm surprised
>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it by
watching
>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>than RAP.
>
>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top ten
>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony Ferguson
>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
and
>set sales records???
>
>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>
>James
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| Re: The music industry [message #79653 is a reply to message #79651] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 11:56 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Rap involves talking or shouting, you can do it over any kind of music,
just a simple beat or unaccompanied. Sometimes it's done over
interesting music that has some semblance of development. More commonly
it's done over repetitive loops and the main attraction is dance moves.
I dunno about the blanket dissing of "geezer rock" in comparison. Hip
hop has been around long enough that there are geezers who rap, and
there is no shortage of boring retread hip hop. Maybe the Jamaicans can
infuse something new.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
TCB wrote:
> The distinction between 'R&B' and 'Rap' is at least as difficult as the difference
> between 'Rock' 'Metal' and 'Alternative.' When R&B and Rap are added together
> they obviously sell lots and lots of records.
>
> Two other things. First, 'rap' is a verb, it's something someone does. 'Hip
> hop' is a noun, a kind of music. 'He raps very well on his new hip hop song,
> but I think the production is a little bland.' Lastly, IMHO by far the most
> fertile ground for interesting new sounds is dancehall (essentially, Jamaican
> hip hop) and the US/UK hip hop producers who are listening into those sounds.
> People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
> 1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was just
> released.
>
> TCB
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Music industry stats.
>>
>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>
>> By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm surprised
>> that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it by
> watching
>> MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>> than RAP.
>>
>> I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top ten
>> albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony Ferguson
>> (Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
> and
>> set sales records???
>>
>> http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>
>> James
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79661 is a reply to message #79659] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 17:16 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hi Thad,
I'm not exactly sure what pushing sonic boundries means after reading this.
Is it the lack of sonic cliche so to speak? I'm asking because normally
I understand what you are saying, or at least think I do.
Thanks
Chuck
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know what Endless Wire is, but I'm guessing by this response it's
>a geezer rock platter. Assuming that's correct, what new sonic ground is
>it breaking? I didn't say every hip hop song has some amazing message or
>incredible songwriting, I said their pushing sonic boundaries and envelopes
>in a way that geezer rock is not, esp the ones listening to the Jamaicans
>who are really on a roll. So what is so great sound wise about Endless Wire?
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinCT.org> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
>>>1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was just
>>>released.
>>
>>
>>Endless Wire is great, vital, and new music made by geezers,
>>not "geezer rock".
>>
>>have you heard it?
>>
>>
>>How was your NOOGIE btw?
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79662 is a reply to message #79659] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 17:16 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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With categories like "geezer rock" it is clear that no one can
actually discuss, oh say, music, within your context.
Why don't we discuss geezer rock vs. commercial hip hop?
How about geezer jazz vs. misogynist rap?
We could have a go at geezer baroque vs. Bling R & B where
Hummers of both kinds are a must-have in all videos
I am really looking forward to a chat about geezer bebop
vs. gangsta rap. That one will be fun.
BTW, which reductionistic, anti-art category do you put your own
music in? Or does it have all kinds of new sounds, so it's
OK to not write good songs?
Endless Wire, BTW is the new Who disc and the sonic landscapes
are absolutely breathtaking in places. You should listen. Oh, and
there is also some actual songwriting and composition going
on.
DC
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know what Endless Wire is, but I'm guessing by this response it's
>a geezer rock platter. Assuming that's correct, what new sonic ground is
>it breaking? I didn't say every hip hop song has some amazing message or
>incredible songwriting, I said their pushing sonic boundaries and envelopes
>in a way that geezer rock is not, esp the ones listening to the Jamaicans
>who are really on a roll. So what is so great sound wise about Endless Wire?
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinCT.org> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
>>>1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was just
>>>released.
>>
>>
>>Endless Wire is great, vital, and new music made by geezers,
>>not "geezer rock".
>>
>>have you heard it?
>>
>>
>>How was your NOOGIE btw?
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79663 is a reply to message #79659] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 17:41 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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It's not 1969 anymore, but I think Geezer Butler kind of rocks (Terence Michael
Butler). I haven't listen to them in years, but the last time I saw them
they rocked. Actually being a drummer I pay more attention to Bill Ward,
I always kind of liked his playing style. At least these old Geezers can
actually play instruments.
Geezer Rock Rules; )
James
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know what Endless Wire is, but I'm guessing by this response it's
>a geezer rock platter. Assuming that's correct, what new sonic ground is
>it breaking? I didn't say every hip hop song has some amazing message or
>incredible songwriting, I said their pushing sonic boundaries and envelopes
>in a way that geezer rock is not, esp the ones listening to the Jamaicans
>who are really on a roll. So what is so great sound wise about Endless Wire?
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinCT.org> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
>>>1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was just
>>>released.
>>
>>
>>Endless Wire is great, vital, and new music made by geezers,
>>not "geezer rock".
>>
>>have you heard it?
>>
>>
>>How was your NOOGIE btw?
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79667 is a reply to message #79651] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 18:02 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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Ok Mon! I think this is what TCB is talking about, check it out, the videos.
Music, dance and culture. http://www.dancehallreggae.com/index1.aspx
Maybe TCB can post some better links. Turn us on to it TCB!
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>The distinction between 'R&B' and 'Rap' is at least as difficult as the
difference
>between 'Rock' 'Metal' and 'Alternative.' When R&B and Rap are added together
>they obviously sell lots and lots of records.
>
>Two other things. First, 'rap' is a verb, it's something someone does. 'Hip
>hop' is a noun, a kind of music. 'He raps very well on his new hip hop song,
>but I think the production is a little bland.' Lastly, IMHO by far the most
>fertile ground for interesting new sounds is dancehall (essentially, Jamaican
>hip hop) and the US/UK hip hop producers who are listening into those sounds.
>People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
>1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was just
>released.
>
>TCB
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Music industry stats.
>>
>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>
>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm surprised
>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it by
>watching
>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>than RAP.
>>
>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top ten
>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony Ferguson
>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>and
>>set sales records???
>>
>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>
>>James
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79668 is a reply to message #79666] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 19:51 |
LAMont[3]
Messages: 5
Registered: August 2006
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Junior Member |
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James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and neighbors
listen to Hip /Rap..
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not everybody
>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
for
>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>
>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such as Outcast.
>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven Em
>&
>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>
>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the industry
>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi nearly
>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And No Rock..
>>
>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>
>>
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Music industry stats.
>>>
>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>
>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm surprised
>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it by
>>watching
>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>>than RAP.
>>>
>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top ten
>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony Ferguson
>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>and
>>>set sales records???
>>>
>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>
>>>James
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79670 is a reply to message #79668] |
Wed, 07 February 2007 21:00 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
darn hard to find sometimes.
DC
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>
>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and
neighbors
>listen to Hip /Rap..
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not
everybody
>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
>for
>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>
>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such as
Outcast.
>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven Em
>>&
>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>
>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the industry
>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi nearly
>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And No
Rock..
>>>
>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>
>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>
>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
surprised
>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it
by
>>>watching
>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>>>than RAP.
>>>>
>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top
ten
>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony Ferguson
>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>and
>>>>set sales records???
>>>>
>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>
>>>>James
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79687 is a reply to message #79661] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 07:55 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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Mostly, yes, the lack of sonic cliche. Also a willingness to explore beats
beyond straight 4/4 time, incredible bass sounds, and a toleration of 'grit'
that I find refreshing.
Sorry I'm being less clear these days, must be early onset senility,
TCB
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Thad,
>
>I'm not exactly sure what pushing sonic boundries means after reading this.
> Is it the lack of sonic cliche so to speak? I'm asking because normally
>I understand what you are saying, or at least think I do.
>
>Thanks
>Chuck
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I don't know what Endless Wire is, but I'm guessing by this response it's
>>a geezer rock platter. Assuming that's correct, what new sonic ground is
>>it breaking? I didn't say every hip hop song has some amazing message or
>>incredible songwriting, I said their pushing sonic boundaries and envelopes
>>in a way that geezer rock is not, esp the ones listening to the Jamaicans
>>who are really on a roll. So what is so great sound wise about Endless
Wire?
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinCT.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
>>>>1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was
just
>>>>released.
>>>
>>>
>>>Endless Wire is great, vital, and new music made by geezers,
>>>not "geezer rock".
>>>
>>>have you heard it?
>>>
>>>
>>>How was your NOOGIE btw?
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79689 is a reply to message #79662] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 08:08 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
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Hey Don,
I play in what I would call a 'Brit flavored pop band' called the Mold Monkies.
You can hear some songs at www.moldmonkies.com or buy our CD if you actually
give a rip, which I suspect you don't. My own personal music I would call
'Reasonably good Thievery Corporation ripoff with treated vocals,' but the
pop songwriting in the Monkies has pushed me in a slightly different direction
I'm exploring now. We'll see how that works out.
Never liked The Who all that much. The only Brit geezer rockers I ever really
like were the Kinks and the Stones. But if someone else has that record I'll
listen to it.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinMA.com> wrote:
>
>With categories like "geezer rock" it is clear that no one can
>actually discuss, oh say, music, within your context.
>
>Why don't we discuss geezer rock vs. commercial hip hop?
>
>How about geezer jazz vs. misogynist rap?
>
>We could have a go at geezer baroque vs. Bling R & B where
>Hummers of both kinds are a must-have in all videos
>
>I am really looking forward to a chat about geezer bebop
>vs. gangsta rap. That one will be fun.
>
>BTW, which reductionistic, anti-art category do you put your own
>music in? Or does it have all kinds of new sounds, so it's
>OK to not write good songs?
>
>
>Endless Wire, BTW is the new Who disc and the sonic landscapes
>are absolutely breathtaking in places. You should listen. Oh, and
>there is also some actual songwriting and composition going
>on.
>
>DC
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I don't know what Endless Wire is, but I'm guessing by this response it's
>>a geezer rock platter. Assuming that's correct, what new sonic ground is
>>it breaking? I didn't say every hip hop song has some amazing message or
>>incredible songwriting, I said their pushing sonic boundaries and envelopes
>>in a way that geezer rock is not, esp the ones listening to the Jamaicans
>>who are really on a roll. So what is so great sound wise about Endless
Wire?
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinCT.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>People might not like the content, but from a sonic standpoint it's about
>>>>1000x more interesting that whatever geezer rock retread platter was
just
>>>>released.
>>>
>>>
>>>Endless Wire is great, vital, and new music made by geezers,
>>>not "geezer rock".
>>>
>>>have you heard it?
>>>
>>>
>>>How was your NOOGIE btw?
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79691 is a reply to message #79670] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 08:43 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
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Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>darn hard to find sometimes.
>
>DC
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>
>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and
>neighbors
>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not
>everybody
>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
>>for
>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>
>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such as
>Outcast.
>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
Em
>>>&
>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>
>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the industry
>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi
nearly
>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And No
>Rock..
>>>>
>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>
>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>surprised
>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it
>by
>>>>watching
>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>
>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top
>ten
>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
Ferguson
>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>>and
>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>
>>>>>James
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: The music industry [message #79692 is a reply to message #79688] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 08:45 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well, at least when the Stones ripped off an old bluesman, they
recorded & played the song themselves, and actually gave the
original writer the appropriate credit & royalties. I like Janet
Jacksons voice quite a lot, but when half of a CD consists of
looped samples of everything from Ventura Highway" to "You're So
Vain" (ok, so that's "geezer pop", not geezer rock"), you're
basically buying a CD full of karaeoke performances.
So, next time you wanna prove to us how hip you are by talking
smack about how cool & "groundbreaking" P.Diddy is, just
remember "Come With Me".
In fact, I think you should one-up him... why not just write
& rap some new lyrics over a looped main riff of "Black Dog",
that was an even bigger hit for Zep than "Kashmir" was. lol
Neil
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Unlike those geezer rockers, who were COMPLETELY original. Nobody ever nicked
>a Chuck Berry or Muddy Waters lick back in the day, right? Or ripped off
>some Everly Brothers harmonies. Just brand new ideas straight from the ether
> . .
>
>TCB
>
>"Neil" <OIUOI@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I don't know what Endless Wire is, but I'm guessing by this response it's
>>>a geezer rock platter. Assuming that's correct, what new sonic ground
is
>>>it breaking? I didn't say every hip hop song has some amazing message
or
>>>incredible songwriting, I said their pushing sonic boundaries and envelopes
>>>in a way that geezer rock is not
>>
>>Considering that nearly all rap/hip-hop involves recycling
>>something that someone else has already done (whether it's a
>>sampled loop from a geezer rock song or an Acid loop or
>>repeating one-shot sample that someone else has recorded), I'd
>>say they're breaking, oh... ZERO new ground.
>>
>>Neil
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79700 is a reply to message #79688] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 11:22 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Unlike those geezer rockers, who were COMPLETELY original. Nobody ever nicked
>a Chuck Berry or Muddy Waters lick back in the day, right? Or ripped off
>some Everly Brothers harmonies. Just brand new ideas straight from the ether
> . .
>
>TCB
Oh, I think most people would see some qualitative difference
between throwing samples together and learning to play a Chuck
Berry song.
As with punk, even your esthetic sense will too become a
period piece as the culture absorbs it. Yesterday's news.
Instead of looking for a new trend, I prefer doing what I do well.
Oh, and shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but that is what the
trendsetters are doing; what they do well. They are too busy
to worry about all this, to follow a trend, and to criticize
other musicians, even old ones. Those who do, who worry about
the next trend and where the new sounds may come from,
are all behind the curve by the amount time of the writing,
production, and marketing process.
In other words, anyone who gives a shit about "where the new
sounds are coming from" is 6 months to 2 years behind the
curve anyway.
Oh, and as you have seen, the young can be dumped on for
their youth, the Jamaicans for their cultural myopia and lack of
musical breadth, the rappers for not understanding music at all,
and the hip-hoppers for their obsession with money and
criminality.
Lessee, how about we come up with some stupid and useless
descriptions of these guys...
Maybe
Zit-Rockers
or
Ganja Dancehallers
or perhaps
Numbnutz no-talent Rap hustlers
and don't forget Bling-Hop!
The problem with all these stupid phrases, as with
"geezer rock"; is not that saying them makes the music bad.
It cannot do that.
The problem is that they blind the person who uses them.
just my .02
DC
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| Re: The music industry [message #79702 is a reply to message #79691] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 12:06 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close my
eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the picture
of calvin peeing on the chevy.
I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But I
also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if it's
samples and loops put together.
It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am a
PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going to
hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen. Couldn't
stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20 years.
Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out to
be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and
>>neighbors
>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not
>>everybody
>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
>>>for
>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>
>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such as
>>Outcast.
>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>Em
>>>>&
>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>
>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the industry
>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi
>nearly
>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And No
>>Rock..
>>>>>
>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>
>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>>surprised
>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it
>>by
>>>>>watching
>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top
>>ten
>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>Ferguson
>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>>>and
>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79703 is a reply to message #79702] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 12:24 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Chuck,
Glad you're still around.
You have my deepest sympathy as a PK. They have it harder
as kids than most people know.
I give a big rats ass about whether it is sampled and looped.
Not that you can't make cool music that way, you obviously can,
but I fear the death of genuine music skills. Theory, composition,
lyric writing, arranging, instrumental technique all have a long
tradition and one was expected to acheive some skills in these
areas to be a musician. The artistic backbone, if you will, of
the music has to be strong enough to support a growing and
expanding style, and the skills of looping and sampling are
simply too small of a backbone to support anything for any
period of time. Why learn an instrument if you can sit at a KB
and make a hit? So, how do we get a new generation of
musicians instead of (virtual) knob-twirlers?
As with 60's pop, a lot of R&B, Hip Hop, Rap, etc is pure
garbage, but some is very good indeed. The problem is the
decline in respect for musical skills that these styles encourage.
That will have serious consequences.
I am not worried because my teenager and her friends are
so omnivorous in their tastes, so curious about all kinds of
music, that they will discover music and love it, if given just
a bit of exposure. That of course, can be a problem.
I see people like Nick Cannon and P.O.D. and I see real musical
skills along with the samples and rapping.
Bitchin! They will own the future, not the braindead samplers
and stoned-out thug-rappers.
DC
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
my
>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the picture
>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>
>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But I
>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if it's
>samples and loops put together.
>
>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
a
>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going to
>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
Couldn't
>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20 years.
> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out to
>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and
>>>neighbors
>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not
>>>everybody
>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
>>>>for
>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>
>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
as
>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>Em
>>>>>&
>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
industry
>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi
>>nearly
>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
No
>>>Rock..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>>>surprised
>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
it
>>>by
>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
bigger
>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top
>>>ten
>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: The music industry [message #79706 is a reply to message #79701] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 12:43 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
We're very much a live outfit, though that CD was done with very, very little
of my influence. The next one will have my stomp prints all over it and I'm
hoping to make it sound MORE live. I'm quite excited with the really bare
bones mixes we're getting right now. Our 'signature' is three part harmonies
on almost everything with a big loud rock'n'roll noise behind it and we're
getting there on the next CD.
As far as a producer, we already have three pretty strong personalities and
I don't think another one would add much. And we'd rather not pay one of
course. And we have a song on the next CD called 'Hobo Rocket' that's about,
you guessed it, a bunch of hobos who take over a rocket, and I wouldn't want
some smart producer to keep us from doing all of the stupid, silly stuff
we do.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.org> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Don,
>>
>>I play in what I would call a 'Brit flavored pop band' called the Mold
Monkies.
>>You can hear some songs at www.moldmonkies.com or buy our CD if you actually
>>give a rip, which I suspect you don't.
>
>
>Actually I do, and like some of the tunes. I hear the need for a
>producer to focus things a bit. Sounds like a good band for a
>fun live show.
>
>DC
|
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| Re: The music industry [message #79707 is a reply to message #79702] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 12:48 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I've never understood it either. I mean, I'm 37, white, played in blues/jazz
bands for years, and I can enjoy hip hop so I would think everyone could.
For me it was the first time I heard 'Fight the Power' that I realized there
was something going on that demanded my immediate attention.
We used to have Derek around which helped a bit.
Oh well, more cool tunes for me,
TCB
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
my
>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the picture
>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>
>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But I
>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if it's
>samples and loops put together.
>
>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
a
>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going to
>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
Couldn't
>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20 years.
> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out to
>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and
>>>neighbors
>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not
>>>everybody
>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
>>>>for
>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>
>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
as
>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>Em
>>>>>&
>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
industry
>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi
>>nearly
>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
No
>>>Rock..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>>>surprised
>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
it
>>>by
>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
bigger
>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top
>>>ten
>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: The music industry [message #79709 is a reply to message #79707] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 12:53 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
FWIW, I wasn't dismissing rap or hip-hop out-of-hand,
allimsayinis: don't try & tell me that it's groundbreaking or
even remotely original.
When the only thing new or fresh is a vocal line, then there
really hasn't been anything "original" in that genre since Kurtis
Blow.
Also, what's "PK"?
Neil
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I've never understood it either. I mean, I'm 37, white, played in blues/jazz
>bands for years, and I can enjoy hip hop so I would think everyone could.
>For me it was the first time I heard 'Fight the Power' that I realized there
>was something going on that demanded my immediate attention.
>
>We used to have Derek around which helped a bit.
>
>Oh well, more cool tunes for me,
>
>TCB
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>
>>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
>my
>>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
picture
>>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>
>>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
I
>>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if
it's
>>samples and loops put together.
>>
>>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
>a
>>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going to
>>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
>Couldn't
>>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20 years.
>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
to
>>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>
>>>>DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
and
>>>>neighbors
>>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
not
>>>>everybody
>>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
each
>>>>>for
>>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
>as
>>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>>Em
>>>>>>&
>>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
>industry
>>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
Mi
>>>nearly
>>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
>No
>>>>Rock..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
I'm
>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
>it
>>>>by
>>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
>bigger
>>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
top
>>>>ten
>>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The music industry [message #79711 is a reply to message #79702] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 12:07 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
People talking and yelling in rhythm over a sonic background can be
listenable, even compelling. But it's harder to be as _musical_ as you
can be in genres that make greater use of melody and development.
Lyrically, when it's just shock lyrics it's not particularly
interesting. Even though not all rapping is like that, the genre has
that reputation.
When posturing and dance have to take up the slack, sometimes the
dancing is spectacular. Other times it's mostly about marching back and
forth, repetitive gesturing, crotch grabbing and other simplistic and
cheesy moves.
So really, it all depends on the piece and the performer.
I could say similar things about other genres. So it's not the genre,
per se, it's the results that opens rappers to criticism from people who
would rather hear something more musical.
Also, if you're looking for a virtuostic performance on an instrument or
amazing singing, there's not much there in a lot of hip hop. Some, yes,
but generally it doesn't deliver those goods. So the question of musical
talent comes up.
To point those aspects out isn't dismissing the genre out of hand, it's
just recognizing some of the limitations that have become obvious since
the day when rapping actually was something new and fresh, and that's
been a while.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
chuck duffy wrote:
> You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
> gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close my
> eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the picture
> of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>
> I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But I
> also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
> provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
> something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if it's
> samples and loops put together.
>
> It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am a
> PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
> things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going to
> hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
> on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen. Couldn't
> stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20 years.
> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
> a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out to
> be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>
>
> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>> Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>> At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>> there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>> with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>> darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>> James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own and
>>> neighbors
>>>> listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds, not
>>> everybody
>>>>> here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>
>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling each
>>>> for
>>>>>> the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such as
>>> Outcast.
>>>>>> But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>> Em
>>>>> &
>>>>>> EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the industry
>>>>>> calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb) Mi
>> nearly
>>>>>> all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And No
>>> Rock..
>>>>>> And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact, I'm
>>> surprised
>>>>>>> that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know it
>>> by
>>>>>> watching
>>>>>>> MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is bigger
>>>>>>> than RAP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the top
>>> ten
>>>>>>> albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>> Ferguson
>>>>>>> (Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million records
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> set sales records???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The music industry [message #79713 is a reply to message #79709] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 13:37 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Neil,
"When the only thing new or fresh is a vocal line, then there
>really hasn't been anything "original" in that genre since "
I don't think you listen to hip-hop, not that that matters, but there is
plenty of original thinking, lyric, delivery and musical content amongst
the groups I cited and dozens of others. You'll probably think this is criticism
of you personally, but it's not, everyone likes what they like.
Chuck
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>FWIW, I wasn't dismissing rap or hip-hop out-of-hand,
>allimsayinis: don't try & tell me that it's groundbreaking or
>even remotely original.
>
>When the only thing new or fresh is a vocal line, then there
>really hasn't been anything "original" in that genre since Kurtis
>Blow.
>
>Also, what's "PK"?
>
>
>Neil
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've never understood it either. I mean, I'm 37, white, played in blues/jazz
>>bands for years, and I can enjoy hip hop so I would think everyone could.
>>For me it was the first time I heard 'Fight the Power' that I realized
there
>>was something going on that demanded my immediate attention.
>>
>>We used to have Derek around which helped a bit.
>>
>>Oh well, more cool tunes for me,
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>>>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
>>my
>>>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
>picture
>>>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>>
>>>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
>I
>>>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>>>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>>>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if
>it's
>>>samples and loops put together.
>>>
>>>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
>>a
>>>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>>>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going
to
>>>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>>>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
>
>>Couldn't
>>>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20
years.
>>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>>>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
>to
>>>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>>DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
>and
>>>>>neighbors
>>>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
>not
>>>>>everybody
>>>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
>each
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
>>as
>>>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>>>Em
>>>>>>>&
>>>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
>>industry
>>>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
>Mi
>>>>nearly
>>>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
>>No
>>>>>Rock..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
>I'm
>>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
>>it
>>>>>by
>>>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
>>bigger
>>>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
>top
>>>>>ten
>>>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million
records
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The music industry [message #79725 is a reply to message #79711] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 15:00 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Some of us find beats and bass lines to be at least as interesting as melody
and harmony. Which is not to say that all hip hop is lacking in melodic or
harmonic interest, just that there is a universe in the rhythm.
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>People talking and yelling in rhythm over a sonic background can be
>listenable, even compelling. But it's harder to be as _musical_ as you
>can be in genres that make greater use of melody and development.
>
>Lyrically, when it's just shock lyrics it's not particularly
>interesting. Even though not all rapping is like that, the genre has
>that reputation.
>
>When posturing and dance have to take up the slack, sometimes the
>dancing is spectacular. Other times it's mostly about marching back and
>forth, repetitive gesturing, crotch grabbing and other simplistic and
>cheesy moves.
>
>So really, it all depends on the piece and the performer.
>
>I could say similar things about other genres. So it's not the genre,
>per se, it's the results that opens rappers to criticism from people who
>would rather hear something more musical.
>
>Also, if you're looking for a virtuostic performance on an instrument or
>amazing singing, there's not much there in a lot of hip hop. Some, yes,
>but generally it doesn't deliver those goods. So the question of musical
>talent comes up.
>
>To point those aspects out isn't dismissing the genre out of hand, it's
>just recognizing some of the limitations that have become obvious since
>the day when rapping actually was something new and fresh, and that's
>been a while.
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>chuck duffy wrote:
>> You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>> gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
my
>> eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
picture
>> of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>
>> I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
I
>> also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>> provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>> something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if
it's
>> samples and loops put together.
>>
>> It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
a
>> PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>> things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going
to
>> hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>> on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
Couldn't
>> stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20
years.
>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>> a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
to
>> be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>
>>
>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>> Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>> At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>> there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>> with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>> darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>> James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
and
>>>> neighbors
>>>>> listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>
>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
not
>>>> everybody
>>>>>> here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
each
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
as
>>>> Outcast.
>>>>>>> But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>> Em
>>>>>> &
>>>>>>> EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
industry
>>>>>>> calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
Mi
>>> nearly
>>>>>>> all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
No
>>>> Rock..
>>>>>>> And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
I'm
>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>> that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
it
>>>> by
>>>>>>> watching
>>>>>>>> MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
bigger
>>>>>>>> than RAP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
top
>>>> ten
>>>>>>>> albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>> Ferguson
>>>>>>>> (Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million
records
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> set sales records???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> James
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The music industry [message #79727 is a reply to message #79709] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 15:09 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Of course not, saying something isn't even remotely original isn't dismissive
at all. Farthest from it.
It's in the beats guys, and the bass. And if you think it's easy cook up
a groove half as cool as the Diwali riddim and play it for me. Listen to
Sean Paul's 'Get Busy' to hear Diwali, it was the supernova riddim of about
3 years ago and you'll still hear it now and then. Maybe try any of the recent
Missy Elliot records, Timbaland usually saves his choicest beats for her
and he has his ear tuned to dancehall more than almost anyone in US hip hop.
Oh yeah, and scratch me up juggled beat like Qbert while you're at it since
it's so easy and unoriginal and all.
TCB
P.S. The last truly original band was Kraftwerk, so even if hip hop ended
with Kurtis Blow it's more current.
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>FWIW, I wasn't dismissing rap or hip-hop out-of-hand,
>allimsayinis: don't try & tell me that it's groundbreaking or
>even remotely original.
>
>When the only thing new or fresh is a vocal line, then there
>really hasn't been anything "original" in that genre since Kurtis
>Blow.
>
>Also, what's "PK"?
>
>
>Neil
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I've never understood it either. I mean, I'm 37, white, played in blues/jazz
>>bands for years, and I can enjoy hip hop so I would think everyone could.
>>For me it was the first time I heard 'Fight the Power' that I realized
there
>>was something going on that demanded my immediate attention.
>>
>>We used to have Derek around which helped a bit.
>>
>>Oh well, more cool tunes for me,
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>>>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
>>my
>>>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
>picture
>>>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>>
>>>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
>I
>>>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>>>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>>>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if
>it's
>>>samples and loops put together.
>>>
>>>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
>>a
>>>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>>>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going
to
>>>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>>>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
>
>>Couldn't
>>>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20
years.
>>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>>>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
>to
>>>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>>DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
>and
>>>>>neighbors
>>>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
>not
>>>>>everybody
>>>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
>each
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
>>as
>>>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>>>Em
>>>>>>>&
>>>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
>>industry
>>>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
>Mi
>>>>nearly
>>>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
>>No
>>>>>Rock..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
>I'm
>>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
>>it
>>>>>by
>>>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
>>bigger
>>>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
>top
>>>>>ten
>>>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million
records
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The music industry [message #79728 is a reply to message #79727] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 15:33 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Challenging someone to put out something in a genre that they
don't work in is a pretty irrelevant challenge, kinda like
if I were to suggest that you go try to deadlift 1,000 pounds
if you were to bemoan the fact that our powerlifters always lose
to the eastern european powerlifters. Would my challenging you
to do that suddenly make you wrong?
Enjoy your groove thang.
Neil
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Of course not, saying something isn't even remotely original isn't dismissive
>at all. Farthest from it.
>
>It's in the beats guys, and the bass. And if you think it's easy cook up
>a groove half as cool as the Diwali riddim and play it for me. Listen to
>Sean Paul's 'Get Busy' to hear Diwali, it was the supernova riddim of about
>3 years ago and you'll still hear it now and then. Maybe try any of the
recent
>Missy Elliot records, Timbaland usually saves his choicest beats for her
>and he has his ear tuned to dancehall more than almost anyone in US hip
hop.
>
>
>Oh yeah, and scratch me up juggled beat like Qbert while you're at it since
>it's so easy and unoriginal and all.
>
>TCB
>
>P.S. The last truly original band was Kraftwerk, so even if hip hop ended
>with Kurtis Blow it's more current.
>
>"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>FWIW, I wasn't dismissing rap or hip-hop out-of-hand,
>>allimsayinis: don't try & tell me that it's groundbreaking or
>>even remotely original.
>>
>>When the only thing new or fresh is a vocal line, then there
>>really hasn't been anything "original" in that genre since Kurtis
>>Blow.
>>
>>Also, what's "PK"?
>>
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I've never understood it either. I mean, I'm 37, white, played in blues/jazz
>>>bands for years, and I can enjoy hip hop so I would think everyone could.
>>>For me it was the first time I heard 'Fight the Power' that I realized
>there
>>>was something going on that demanded my immediate attention.
>>>
>>>We used to have Derek around which helped a bit.
>>>
>>>Oh well, more cool tunes for me,
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how
hiphop
>>>>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
>>>my
>>>>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
>>picture
>>>>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>>>
>>>>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
>>I
>>>>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>>>>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>>>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>>>>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if
>>it's
>>>>samples and loops put together.
>>>>
>>>>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i
am
>>>a
>>>>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>>>>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going
>to
>>>>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>>>>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
>>
>>>Couldn't
>>>>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20
>years.
>>>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or
hear
>>>>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
>>to
>>>>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>>>
>>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
>>and
>>>>>>neighbors
>>>>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
>>not
>>>>>>everybody
>>>>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
>>each
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
>>>as
>>>>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris
aven
>>>>>Em
>>>>>>>>&
>>>>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
>>>industry
>>>>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
>>Mi
>>>>>nearly
>>>>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
>>>No
>>>>>>Rock..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
>>I'm
>>>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
>>>it
>>>>>>by
>>>>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing
is
>>>bigger
>>>>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
>>top
>>>>>>ten
>>>>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and
Tony
>>>>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million
>records
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The music industry [message #79735 is a reply to message #79728] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 17:02 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Neil,
And I've been saying the opposite, and I know your post is not intended in
reply to me.
Why dismiss a genre as limited and just loops and samples, when it's not
even a genre you are interested in?
Chuck
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Challenging someone to put out something in a genre that they
>don't work in is a pretty irrelevant challenge, kinda like
>if I were to suggest that you go try to deadlift 1,000 pounds
>if you were to bemoan the fact that our powerlifters always lose
>to the eastern european powerlifters. Would my challenging you
>to do that suddenly make you wrong?
>
>Enjoy your groove thang.
>
>Neil
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Of course not, saying something isn't even remotely original isn't dismissive
>>at all. Farthest from it.
>>
>>It's in the beats guys, and the bass. And if you think it's easy cook up
>>a groove half as cool as the Diwali riddim and play it for me. Listen to
>>Sean Paul's 'Get Busy' to hear Diwali, it was the supernova riddim of about
>>3 years ago and you'll still hear it now and then. Maybe try any of the
>recent
>>Missy Elliot records, Timbaland usually saves his choicest beats for her
>>and he has his ear tuned to dancehall more than almost anyone in US hip
>hop.
>>
>>
>>Oh yeah, and scratch me up juggled beat like Qbert while you're at it since
>>it's so easy and unoriginal and all.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>P.S. The last truly original band was Kraftwerk, so even if hip hop ended
>>with Kurtis Blow it's more current.
>>
>>"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>FWIW, I wasn't dismissing rap or hip-hop out-of-hand,
>>>allimsayinis: don't try & tell me that it's groundbreaking or
>>>even remotely original.
>>>
>>>When the only thing new or fresh is a vocal line, then there
>>>really hasn't been anything "original" in that genre since Kurtis
>>>Blow.
>>>
>>>Also, what's "PK"?
>>>
>>>
>>>Neil
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I've never understood it either. I mean, I'm 37, white, played in blues/jazz
>>>>bands for years, and I can enjoy hip hop so I would think everyone could.
>>>>For me it was the first time I heard 'Fight the Power' that I realized
>>there
>>>>was something going on that demanded my immediate attention.
>>>>
>>>>We used to have Derek around which helped a bit.
>>>>
>>>>Oh well, more cool tunes for me,
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how
>hiphop
>>>>>gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
>>>>my
>>>>>eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
>>>picture
>>>>>of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>>>>
>>>>>I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
>>>I
>>>>>also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>>>>>provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>>>>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at
least
>>>>>something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass
if
>>>it's
>>>>>samples and loops put together.
>>>>>
>>>>>It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i
>am
>>>>a
>>>>>PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>>>>>things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going
>>to
>>>>>hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list
goes
>>>>>on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
>>>
>>>>Couldn't
>>>>>stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20
>>years.
>>>>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or
>hear
>>>>>a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
>>>to
>>>>>be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>>>>>there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>>>>>with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>>>>>darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>DC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
>>>and
>>>>>>>neighbors
>>>>>>>>listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
>>>not
>>>>>>>everybody
>>>>>>>>>here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
>>>each
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
>>>>as
>>>>>>>Outcast.
>>>>>>>>>>But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris
>aven
>>>>>>Em
>>>>>>>>>&
>>>>>>>>>>EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in
the
>>>>industry
>>>>>>>>>>calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
>>>Mi
>>>>>>nearly
>>>>>>>>>>all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
>>>>No
>>>>>>>Rock..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
>>>I'm
>>>>>>>surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
>>>>it
>>>>>>>by
>>>>>>>>>>watching
>>>>>>>>>>>MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing
>is
>>>>bigger
>>>>>>>>>>>than RAP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
>>>top
>>>>>>>ten
>>>>>>>>>>>albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and
>Tony
>>>>>>Ferguson
>>>>>>>>>>>(Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million
>>records
>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>>set sales records???
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>James
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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