Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please
| Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74048] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 12:34  |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
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First, I'll review my working method so far:
Basically where we are with this is as follows:
I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and other =
VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix scenatio =
with Paris automation.
Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are set =
to 512k:
Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10 + 1 =
samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native =
insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer latency.
( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
Patch the Paris ADAT I/O to the I/O of the native audio interface and =
configure inserts to I/O in Paris patchbay-save as template routing.
In Forte, create input and output busses and assign the native I/O that =
correlates to the Paris I/O
Add a UAD-1 Delaycomp set to compensate for 5 plugins on each Forte =
output bus.
Insert whatever number of UAD-1 plugins after the Delaycomp plugin on =
each bus and reduce the number of pluins the Delaycomp is compensating =
for by the number of UAD-1 plugins on that bus.
Start playback in Paris. Your track will be processed at very low =
latency and you will be able to effectively use the Paris editor =
timeline to reference your fader automation moves.
This sounds complicated. It's not, at least for me. It's very easy to =
set up and save. I've got a mix template set up in Forte and =
patchbay/mixer timplates set up in Paris. A few clicks and I'm good. =
Forte has been very stable for me so far with 12 mono input busses, 12 =
mono output busses and a stereo bus processing 14 Paris tracks across =
EDS cards. At this point, I run out of access to my output points to =
create more busses in the Forte menu. Forte is capable of 32 busses and =
32 instruments/plugins, so a few more would be available to me if I =
created more stereo.busses, but since the Delaycomp is a plugin and must =
be on each bus, the number of busses must always be substantially less =
than the number of UAD-1 plugins since applying even one plugin after =
each Delaycomp will effectively double the number of plugins that Forte =
will need o be capable of handling .....thus the dilemma. In order to =
work, forte will need to be able to create as many busses as there are =
physical I/O and will need to be able to host, in theroy, at least 6 =
plugins per bus. On my rig, that would number in the hundreds (in =
theory).
Personally, I like mixing in Paris and this is the most viable solution =
I've found for using a second computer as a standalone VST processor =
rack which is able to reliably interface with Paris in a practical way =
at low latency.
I have seen reports that this program can also be interfaced between two =
workstations using Wormhole. I haven't tried it so I don't know how well =
that would work.=20
The price of this program in it's current incarnation is $129.95.=20
I have shared a few e-mails with the developer. In one of them I asked =
him what it would cost for he and his partner to basically build a =
"Paris version" with an unlimited number of plugins and limit the number =
of busses only to the available I/O of the audio interface. I explained =
to him about how our group here has been looking for viable solutions =
for moving this platform a little further along into the 21st century =
(well.....I guess from some of the responses I've gotten from other =
threads here about my experiments that maybe there aren't as many still =
interested in this than there once were, but anyway.....)
He has been very cordial and cooperative. I received a reply from him =
this morning. I have edited the name of his partner for now and am =
posting the reply, as follows:
How many licenses are we talking about here? I assume this could be =
done by guaranteeing a minimum number of licenses for some higher price =
to recover the additional development costs. **** and I would need to =
size the effort to come up with an acceptable rate.=20
=20
One concern I would have is that the Paris users would need to be =
willing to be beta testers for this functionality first. We could do =
the work, do a couple of beta drops, and then a final.
=20
Finally, the special features we do would be incorporated into the =
product for all to enjoy, but the Paris users would essentially be =
paying more to fund the development.
=20
Is this close to what you are thinking?
We have talked in the past about paying for upgrades to the Paris =
system. I am still in contact with my friend who programmed the MRI =
software and he is still interested in the delay compensation idea for =
Paris, but we would have to have the source code from ID and that is not =
forthcoming, to my knowledge.
I know that this is yet another workaround and involves a lot of =
*outside the box* stuff, but what I have done here works.....and works =
better than anything else I've tried. the only other thinkg that I know =
of that *might* be able to pull this off is NI KORE. Though I love their =
B4, Bandstand, etc., KORE does not appear ready for prime time, IMO, and =
for the pruposes I envision, is definitely overkill with a big price =
tag.=20
I have also seen on one of the websites associated with Forte that the =
Senderella code was used for their aux bus plugin for this app. I will =
be trying this out later today to see how well it works.
I don't want to yank anyone's chain either here or at Brainspawn. Let me =
know if you are interested in pursuing this and if you would be willing =
to pay for something like this.=20
You can PM me if you want at animix@animas.net or post here.
Thanks,
Deej
=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First, I'll review my working method so =
far:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basically where we are with this is as=20
follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can stream tracks from Paris =
*through* Forte,=20
applying UAD-1 and other VST plugins and it appears that this would=20
be usable in a mix scenatio with Paris automation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here are the steps involved if buffers =
for the=20
native audio card are set to 512k:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paris Editor: highlight all Paris =
tracks and nudge=20
to the left by 10 + 1 samples to compensate for buffer =
latency in=20
native DAW</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS =
inserts,=20
Sampleslide on native insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample =
accuracy with=20
buffer latency.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>( this will ned to be done for every =
track in the=20
mix)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Patch the Paris ADAT I/O to the I/O of =
the native=20
audio interface and configure inserts to I/O in Paris patchbay-save as =
template=20
routing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In Forte, create input and output =
busses and assign=20
the native I/O that correlates to the Paris I/O</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Add a UAD-1 Delaycomp set to compensate =
for 5=20
plugins on each Forte output bus.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Insert whatever number of UAD-1 =
plugins after=20
the Delaycomp plugin on each bus and reduce the number of pluins the =
Delaycomp=20
is compensating for by the number of UAD-1 plugins on that =
bus.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Start playback in Paris. Your track =
will be=20
processed at very low latency and you will be able to effectively use =
the Paris=20
editor timeline to reference your fader automation moves.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This sounds complicated. It's not, at =
least for me.=20
It's very easy to set up and save. I've got a mix template set up in =
Forte and=20
patchbay/mixer timplates set up in Paris. A few clicks and I'm good. =
Forte has=20
been very stable for me so far with 12 mono input busses, 12 mono output =
busses=20
and a stereo bus processing 14 Paris tracks across EDS cards. At this =
point, I=20
run out of access to my output points to create more busses in =
the=20
Forte menu. Forte is capable of 32 busses and 32 =
instruments/plugins, so a=20
few more would be available to me if I created more stereo.busses, =
but=20
since the Delaycomp is a plugin and must be on each bus, the number of =
busses=20
must always be substantially less than the number of UAD-1 plugins =
since=20
applying even one plugin after each Delaycomp will effectively double =
the number=20
of plugins that Forte will need o be capable of=20
handling .....thus the dilemma. In order to work, forte will need =
to be=20
able to create as many busses as there are physical I/O and will need to =
be able=20
to host, in theroy, at least 6 plugins per bus. On my rig, that would =
number in=20
the hundreds (in theory).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Personally, I like mixing in Paris and =
this is the=20
most viable solution I've found for using a second computer as a =
standalone VST=20
processor rack which is able to reliably interface with Paris in a=20
practical way at low latency.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have seen reports that this program =
can also be=20
interfaced between two workstations using Wormhole. I haven't tried it =
so I=20
don't know how well that would work. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The price of this program in it's =
current=20
incarnation is $129.95. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have shared a few e-mails with the =
developer. In=20
one of them I asked him what it would cost for he and his partner =
to=20
basically build a "Paris version" with an unlimited number of =
plugins and=20
limit the number of busses only to the available I/O of the audio =
interface. I=20
explained to him about how our group here has been looking for viable =
solutions=20
for moving this platform a little further along into the 21st century=20
(well.....I guess from some of the responses I've gotten from other =
threads here=20
about my experiments that maybe there aren't as many still =
interested in=20
this than there once were, but anyway.....)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He has been very cordial and =
cooperative. I=20
received a reply from him this morning. I have edited the name of his =
partner=20
for now and am posting the reply, as follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG><EM>How many licenses are we =
talking about=20
here? I assume this could be done by guaranteeing a minimum number =
of=20
licenses for some higher price to recover the additional development=20
costs. **** and I would need to size the effort to come =
up with=20
an acceptable rate. <BR> <BR>One concern I would have is that the =
Paris=20
users would need to be willing to be beta testers for this functionality =
first. We could do the work, do a couple of beta drops, and then a =
final.<BR> <BR>Finally, the special features we do would be =
incorporated=20
into the product for all to enjoy, but the Paris users would essentially =
be=20
paying more to fund the development.<BR> <BR>Is this close to what =
you are=20
thinking?</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV >
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have talked in the past about paying =
for=20
upgrades to the Paris system. I am still in contact with my friend who=20
programmed the MRI software and he is still interested in the delay =
compensation=20
idea for Paris, but we would have to have the source code from ID and =
that is=20
not forthcoming, to my knowledge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know that this is yet another =
workaround and=20
involves a lot of *outside the box* stuff, but what I have done here=20
works.....and works better than anything else I've tried. the only other =
thinkg=20
that I know of that *might* be able to pull this off is NI KORE. Though =
I love=20
their B4, Bandstand, etc., KORE does not appear ready for prime time, =
IMO, and=20
for the pruposes I envision, is definitely overkill with a big price =
tag.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have also seen on one of the websites =
associated=20
with Forte that the Senderella code was used for their aux bus plugin =
for this=20
app. I will be trying this out later today to see how well it=20
works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't want to yank anyone's chain =
either here or=20
at Brainspawn. Let me know if you are interested in pursuing =
this and if=20
you would be willing to pay for something like this. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can PM me if you want at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:animix@animas.net">animix@animas.net</A> or post=20
here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><STRONG><EM> <BR></EM></STRONG></DIV ></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74052 is a reply to message #74050] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 13:53  |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dave,
All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is to have
all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they are
being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each track
has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the Sampleslide
instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two computers
caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have tested
it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through Forte
and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but then you
get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed in
Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x UAD-1
plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but I'm
going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline while
mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be nudged
a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates a
nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this way,
I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3 wrapper. I
want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently compensated
rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
purpose to my way of thinking.
Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
;o)
"Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:453148b2$1@linux...
> Hey DJ,
>
> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>
> Just checking ;-)
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >
> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >
> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and other
> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix scenatio
> > with Paris automation.
> >
> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are set
> > to 512k:
> >
> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10 + 1
> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer latency.
> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >
> snip
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| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74055 is a reply to message #74052] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 14:21 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
Don
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> Dave,
>
> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is to
> have
> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they are
> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each track
> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> Sampleslide
> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> computers
> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
> tested
> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
> Forte
> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but then
> you
> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed in
> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
> UAD-1
> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but I'm
> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline while
> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
> nudged
> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates a
> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
> way,
> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3 wrapper.
> I
> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> compensated
> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
> purpose to my way of thinking.
>
> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>
> ;o)
>
>
> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> Hey DJ,
>>
>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>>
>> Just checking ;-)
>>
>> David.
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >
>> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >
>> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>> > other
>> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix scenatio
>> > with Paris automation.
>> >
>> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are
>> > set
>> > to 512k:
>> >
>> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10 +
>> > 1
>> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>> > latency.
>> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >
>> snip
>
>
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| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74061 is a reply to message #74055] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 14:37 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I track in
Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them into
a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono output
busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It takes 30
minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the EDS
external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and bypassed
until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris tracks
and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open Forte
to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project in
5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
inserts and auxes in Paris.
Deej
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>
> Don
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> > Dave,
> >
> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is to
> > have
> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they are
> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
track
> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> > Sampleslide
> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> > computers
> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
> > tested
> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
> > Forte
> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but then
> > you
> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed in
> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
> > UAD-1
> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but I'm
> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
while
> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
> > nudged
> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates a
> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
> > way,
> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
wrapper.
> > I
> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> > compensated
> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
> > purpose to my way of thinking.
> >
> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
> >
> > ;o)
> >
> >
> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
> >> Hey DJ,
> >>
> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
> >>
> >> Just checking ;-)
> >>
> >> David.
> >>
> >> DJ wrote:
> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >> >
> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >> >
> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
> >> > other
> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
scenatio
> >> > with Paris automation.
> >> >
> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are
> >> > set
> >> > to 512k:
> >> >
> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10
+
> >> > 1
> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
> >> > latency.
> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >> >
> >> snip
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74062 is a reply to message #74061] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 14:57 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
Don
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
> That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I track
> in
> Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
> network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
> into
> a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono output
> busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It takes
> 30
> minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
> almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
> jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
> importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the EDS
> external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
> bypassed
> until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
> tracks
> and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open Forte
> to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project
> in
> 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
> inserts and auxes in Paris.
>
> Deej
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>
>> Don
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>> > Dave,
>> >
>> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is to
>> > have
>> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they are
>> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
> track
>> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>> > Sampleslide
>> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>> > computers
>> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
>> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>> > tested
>> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
>> > Forte
>> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
>> > then
>> > you
>> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
>> > in
>> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
>> > UAD-1
>> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but I'm
>> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
> while
>> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
>> > nudged
>> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates
>> > a
>> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
>> > way,
>> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> wrapper.
>> > I
>> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>> > compensated
>> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
>> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>> >
>> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>> >
>> > ;o)
>> >
>> >
>> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> >> Hey DJ,
>> >>
>> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>> >>
>> >> Just checking ;-)
>> >>
>> >> David.
>> >>
>> >> DJ wrote:
>> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >> >
>> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >> >
>> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>> >> > other
>> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> scenatio
>> >> > with Paris automation.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are
>> >> > set
>> >> > to 512k:
>> >> >
>> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10
> +
>> >> > 1
>> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>> >> > latency.
>> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >> >
>> >> snip
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74063 is a reply to message #74062] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 14:50 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
>
> Don
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
track
> > in
> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
> > into
> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
output
> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
takes
> > 30
> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
EDS
> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
> > bypassed
> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
> > tracks
> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
Forte
> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project
> > in
> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> >
> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> >> > Dave,
> >> >
> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
to
> >> > have
> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
are
> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
> > track
> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> >> > Sampleslide
> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> >> > computers
> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
native
> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
> >> > tested
> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
> >> > Forte
> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
> >> > then
> >> > you
> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
> >> > in
> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
> >> > UAD-1
> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
I'm
> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
> > while
> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
> >> > nudged
> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
creates
> >> > a
> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
this
> >> > way,
> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> > wrapper.
> >> > I
> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> >> > compensated
> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
the
> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
> >> >
> >> > ;o)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
> >> >> Hey DJ,
> >> >>
> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just checking ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> David.
> >> >>
> >> >> DJ wrote:
> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
> >> >> > other
> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> > scenatio
> >> >> > with Paris automation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
are
> >> >> > set
> >> >> > to 512k:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
10
> > +
> >> >> > 1
> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
> >> >> > latency.
> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >> >> >
> >> >> snip
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74064 is a reply to message #74063] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 15:05 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well I did say it was a dumb question...sheesh!
;-)
D
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315bad@linux...
> Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
>> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
>> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
>>
>> Don
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
>> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
> track
>> > in
>> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
>> > overmy
>> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
>> > into
>> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
> output
>> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
> takes
>> > 30
>> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
>> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
>> > to
>> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
>> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
> EDS
>> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>> > bypassed
>> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>> > tracks
>> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
> Forte
>> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
>> > project
>> > in
>> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
>> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
>> >
>> > Deej
>> >
>> >
>> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>> >>
>> >> Don
>> >>
>> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>> >> > Dave,
>> >> >
>> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
> to
>> >> > have
>> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
> are
>> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
>> > track
>> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>> >> > Sampleslide
>> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>> >> > computers
>> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
> native
>> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>> >> > tested
>> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>> >> > through
>> >> > Forte
>> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
>> >> > then
>> >> > you
>> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>> >> > processed
>> >> > in
>> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5
>> >> > x
>> >> > UAD-1
>> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
> I'm
>> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>> > while
>> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would
>> >> > be
>> >> > nudged
>> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
> creates
>> >> > a
>> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
> this
>> >> > way,
>> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>> > wrapper.
>> >> > I
>> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>> >> > compensated
>> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
> the
>> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>> >> >
>> >> > ;o)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> >> >> Hey DJ,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just checking ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> David.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> DJ wrote:
>> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > other
>> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>> > scenatio
>> >> >> > with Paris automation.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
> are
>> >> >> > set
>> >> >> > to 512k:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
> 10
>> > +
>> >> >> > 1
>> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on
>> >> >> > native
>> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>> >> >> > latency.
>> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> snip
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74065 is a reply to message #74064] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 14:58 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It's OK.....Dave warned me that you were a drummer
;oD
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315d4f@linux...
> Well I did say it was a dumb question...sheesh!
>
> ;-)
>
> D
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315bad@linux...
> > Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
> >
> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
> >> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
> >> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
> >> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
> > track
> >> > in
> >> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
> >> > overmy
> >> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
them
> >> > into
> >> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
> > output
> >> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> >> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
> > takes
> >> > 30
> >> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
It's
> >> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
> >> > to
> >> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
and
> >> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with
the
> > EDS
> >> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
> >> > bypassed
> >> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
> >> > tracks
> >> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
> > Forte
> >> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
> >> > project
> >> > in
> >> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
on
> >> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
> >> >
> >> > Deej
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
> >> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
> >> >>
> >> >> Don
> >> >>
> >> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> >> >> > Dave,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this
is
> > to
> >> >> > have
> >> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether
they
> > are
> >> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this,
each
> >> > track
> >> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp
(and
> >> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> >> >> > Sampleslide
> >> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> >> >> > computers
> >> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
> > native
> >> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I
have
> >> >> > tested
> >> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
> >> >> > through
> >> >> > Forte
> >> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do,
but
> >> >> > then
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
> >> >> > processed
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of
5
> >> >> > x
> >> >> > UAD-1
> >> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it,
but
> > I'm
> >> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the
latency
> >> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris
timeline
> >> > while
> >> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would
> >> >> > be
> >> >> > nudged
> >> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
> > creates
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
> > this
> >> >> > way,
> >> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> >> > wrapper.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> >> >> > compensated
> >> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
> > the
> >> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ;o)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
> >> >> >> Hey DJ,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> >> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> >> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Just checking ;-)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> David.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> DJ wrote:
> >> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > other
> >> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> >> > scenatio
> >> >> >> > with Paris automation.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio
card
> > are
> >> >> >> > set
> >> >> >> > to 512k:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left
by
> > 10
> >> > +
> >> >> >> > 1
> >> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> >> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on
> >> >> >> > native
> >> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
> >> >> >> > latency.
> >> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> snip
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74066 is a reply to message #74065] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 15:24 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Good one!
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315d9b@linux...
> It's OK.....Dave warned me that you were a drummer
>
> ;oD
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315d4f@linux...
>> Well I did say it was a dumb question...sheesh!
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> D
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315bad@linux...
>> > Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
>> >
>> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
>> >> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
>> >> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
>> >>
>> >> Don
>> >>
>> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
>> >> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
>> > track
>> >> > in
>> >> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
>> >> > overmy
>> >> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
> them
>> >> > into
>> >> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>> > output
>> >> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>> >> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
>> > takes
>> >> > 30
>> >> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
> It's
>> >> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid
>> >> > having
>> >> > to
>> >> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
> and
>> >> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with
> the
>> > EDS
>> >> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>> >> > bypassed
>> >> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>> >> > tracks
>> >> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>> > Forte
>> >> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
>> >> > project
>> >> > in
>> >> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
> on
>> >> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
>> >> >
>> >> > Deej
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> >> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Don
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>> >> >> > Dave,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this
> is
>> > to
>> >> >> > have
>> >> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether
> they
>> > are
>> >> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this,
> each
>> >> > track
>> >> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp
> (and
>> >> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>> >> >> > Sampleslide
>> >> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the
>> >> >> > two
>> >> >> > computers
>> >> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
>> > native
>> >> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I
> have
>> >> >> > tested
>> >> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>> >> >> > through
>> >> >> > Forte
>> >> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do,
> but
>> >> >> > then
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>> >> >> > processed
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of
> 5
>> >> >> > x
>> >> >> > UAD-1
>> >> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it,
> but
>> > I'm
>> >> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the
> latency
>> >> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris
> timeline
>> >> > while
>> >> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte
>> >> >> > would
>> >> >> > be
>> >> >> > nudged
>> >> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
>> > creates
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
>> > this
>> >> >> > way,
>> >> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>> >> > wrapper.
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>> >> >> > compensated
>> >> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it
>> >> >> > defeats
>> > the
>> >> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ;o)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> >> >> >> Hey DJ,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> >> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> >> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Just checking ;-)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> David.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> DJ wrote:
>> >> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > other
>> >> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>> >> > scenatio
>> >> >> >> > with Paris automation.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio
> card
>> > are
>> >> >> >> > set
>> >> >> >> > to 512k:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left
> by
>> > 10
>> >> > +
>> >> >> >> > 1
>> >> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> >> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on
>> >> >> >> > native
>> >> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with
>> >> >> >> > buffer
>> >> >> >> > latency.
>> >> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> snip
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74067 is a reply to message #74061] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 15:21 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Deej, would it be possible to use multiple PCs to get all the processing
track counts your looking for? The wormhole thing would be really cool if
that worked.
James
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I track
in
>Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
>network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
into
>a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono output
>busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It takes
30
>minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
>almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
>jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
>importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the EDS
>external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and bypassed
>until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris tracks
>and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open Forte
>to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project
in
>5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
>inserts and auxes in Paris.
>
>Deej
>
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>
>> Don
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>> > Dave,
>> >
>> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
to
>> > have
>> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
are
>> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
>track
>> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>> > Sampleslide
>> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>> > computers
>> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
>> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>> > tested
>> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
>> > Forte
>> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
then
>> > you
>> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
in
>> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5
x
>> > UAD-1
>> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
I'm
>> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>while
>> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
>> > nudged
>> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates
a
>> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
>> > way,
>> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>wrapper.
>> > I
>> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>> > compensated
>> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
>> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>> >
>> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>> >
>> > ;o)
>> >
>> >
>> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> >> Hey DJ,
>> >>
>> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>> >>
>> >> Just checking ;-)
>> >>
>> >> David.
>> >>
>> >> DJ wrote:
>> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >> >
>> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >> >
>> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>> >> > other
>> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>scenatio
>> >> > with Paris automation.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
are
>> >> > set
>> >> > to 512k:
>> >> >
>> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
10
>+
>> >> > 1
>> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>> >> > latency.
>> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >> >
>> >> snip
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74069 is a reply to message #74048] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 16:00 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Deej...I'd be into it.
Rod
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>
>
>First, I'll review my working method so far:
>
>Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>
>I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and other
=
>VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix scenatio =
>with Paris automation.
>
>Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are set
=
>to 512k:
>
>Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10 + 1
=
>samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native =
>insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer latency.
>( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>
>Patch the Paris ADAT I/O to the I/O of the native audio interface and =
>configure inserts to I/O in Paris patchbay-save as template routing.
>
>In Forte, create input and output busses and assign the native I/O that
=
>correlates to the Paris I/O
>Add a UAD-1 Delaycomp set to compensate for 5 plugins on each Forte =
>output bus.
>Insert whatever number of UAD-1 plugins after the Delaycomp plugin on =
>each bus and reduce the number of pluins the Delaycomp is compensating =
>for by the number of UAD-1 plugins on that bus.
>
>Start playback in Paris. Your track will be processed at very low =
>latency and you will be able to effectively use the Paris editor =
>timeline to reference your fader automation moves.
>
>This sounds complicated. It's not, at least for me. It's very easy to =
>set up and save. I've got a mix template set up in Forte and =
>patchbay/mixer timplates set up in Paris. A few clicks and I'm good. =
>Forte has been very stable for me so far with 12 mono input busses, 12 =
>mono output busses and a stereo bus processing 14 Paris tracks across =
>EDS cards. At this point, I run out of access to my output points to =
>create more busses in the Forte menu. Forte is capable of 32 busses and
=
>32 instruments/plugins, so a few more would be available to me if I =
>created more stereo.busses, but since the Delaycomp is a plugin and must
=
>be on each bus, the number of busses must always be substantially less =
>than the number of UAD-1 plugins since applying even one plugin after =
>each Delaycomp will effectively double the number of plugins that Forte
=
>will need o be capable of handling .....thus the dilemma. In order to =
>work, forte will need to be able to create as many busses as there are =
>physical I/O and will need to be able to host, in theroy, at least 6 =
>plugins per bus. On my rig, that would number in the hundreds (in =
>theory).
>
>Personally, I like mixing in Paris and this is the most viable solution
=
>I've found for using a second computer as a standalone VST processor =
>rack which is able to reliably interface with Paris in a practical way =
>at low latency.
>
>I have seen reports that this program can also be interfaced between two
=
>workstations using Wormhole. I haven't tried it so I don't know how well
=
>that would work.=20
>
>The price of this program in it's current incarnation is $129.95.=20
>
>I have shared a few e-mails with the developer. In one of them I asked =
>him what it would cost for he and his partner to basically build a =
>"Paris version" with an unlimited number of plugins and limit the number
=
>of busses only to the available I/O of the audio interface. I explained
=
>to him about how our group here has been looking for viable solutions =
>for moving this platform a little further along into the 21st century =
>(well.....I guess from some of the responses I've gotten from other =
>threads here about my experiments that maybe there aren't as many still
=
>interested in this than there once were, but anyway.....)
>
>He has been very cordial and cooperative. I received a reply from him =
>this morning. I have edited the name of his partner for now and am =
>posting the reply, as follows:
>
>How many licenses are we talking about here? I assume this could be =
>done by guaranteeing a minimum number of licenses for some higher price
=
>to recover the additional development costs. **** and I would need to =
>size the effort to come up with an acceptable rate.=20
>=20
>One concern I would have is that the Paris users would need to be =
>willing to be beta testers for this functionality first. We could do =
>the work, do a couple of beta drops, and then a final.
>=20
>Finally, the special features we do would be incorporated into the =
>product for all to enjoy, but the Paris users would essentially be =
>paying more to fund the development.
>=20
>Is this close to what you are thinking?
>
>We have talked in the past about paying for upgrades to the Paris =
>system. I am still in contact with my friend who programmed the MRI =
>software and he is still interested in the delay compensation idea for =
>Paris, but we would have to have the source code from ID and that is not
=
>forthcoming, to my knowledge.
>
>I know that this is yet another workaround and involves a lot of =
>*outside the box* stuff, but what I have done here works.....and works =
>better than anything else I've tried. the only other thinkg that I know
=
>of that *might* be able to pull this off is NI KORE. Though I love their
=
>B4, Bandstand, etc., KORE does not appear ready for prime time, IMO, and
=
>for the pruposes I envision, is definitely overkill with a big price =
>tag.=20
>
>I have also seen on one of the websites associated with Forte that the =
>Senderella code was used for their aux bus plugin for this app. I will =
>be trying this out later today to see how well it works.
>
>I don't want to yank anyone's chain either here or at Brainspawn. Let me
=
>know if you are interested in pursuing this and if you would be willing
=
>to pay for something like this.=20
>
>You can PM me if you want at animix@animas.net or post here.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Deej
>
>
>=20
>
>
>
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First, I'll review my working method so
=
>
>far:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basically where we are with this is as=20
>follows:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can stream tracks from Paris =
>*through* Forte,=20
>applying UAD-1 and other VST plugins and it appears that this would=20
>be usable in a mix scenatio with Paris automation.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here are the steps involved if buffers
=
>for the=20
>native audio card are set to 512k:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paris Editor: highlight all Paris =
>tracks and nudge=20
>to the left by 10 + 1 samples to compensate for buffer =
>latency in=20
>native DAW</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS =
>inserts,=20
>Sampleslide on native insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample =
>accuracy with=20
>buffer latency.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>( this will ned to be done for every =
>track in the=20
>mix)</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Patch the Paris ADAT I/O to the I/O of
=
>the native=20
>audio interface and configure inserts to I/O in Paris patchbay-save as =
>template=20
>routing.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In Forte, create input and output =
>busses and assign=20
>the native I/O that correlates to the Paris I/O</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Add a UAD-1 Delaycomp set to compensate
=
>for 5=20
>plugins on each Forte output bus.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Insert whatever number of UAD-1 =
>plugins after=20
>the Delaycomp plugin on each bus and reduce the number of pluins the =
>Delaycomp=20
>is compensating for by the number of UAD-1 plugins on that =
>bus.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Start playback in Paris. Your track =
>will be=20
>processed at very low latency and you will be able to effectively use =
>the Paris=20
>editor timeline to reference your fader automation moves.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This sounds complicated. It's not, at =
>least for me.=20
>It's very easy to set up and save. I've got a mix template set up in =
>Forte and=20
>patchbay/mixer timplates set up in Paris. A few clicks and I'm good. =
>Forte has=20
>been very stable for me so far with 12 mono input busses, 12 mono output
=
>busses=20
>and a stereo bus processing 14 Paris tracks across EDS cards. At this =
>point, I=20
>run out of access to my output points to create more busses in =
>the=20
>Forte menu. Forte is capable of 32 busses and 32 =
>instruments/plugins, so a=20
>few more would be available to me if I created more stereo.busses, =
>but=20
>since the Delaycomp is a plugin and must be on each bus, the number of =
>busses=20
>must always be substantially less than the number of UAD-1 plugins =
>since=20
>applying even one plugin after each Delaycomp will effectively double =
>the number=20
>of plugins that Forte will need o be capable of=20
>handling .....thus the dilemma. In order to work, forte will need =
>to be=20
>able to create as many busses as there are physical I/O and will need to
=
>be able=20
>to host, in theroy, at least 6 plugins per bus. On my rig, that would =
>number in=20
>the hundreds (in theory).</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Personally, I like mixing in Paris and
=
>this is the=20
>most viable solution I've found for using a second computer as a =
>standalone VST=20
>processor rack which is able to reliably interface with Paris in a=20
>practical way at low latency.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have seen reports that this program =
>can also be=20
>interfaced between two workstations using Wormhole. I haven't tried it =
>so I=20
>don't know how well that would work. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The price of this program in it's =
>current=20
>incarnation is $129.95. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have shared a few e-mails with the =
>developer. In=20
>one of them I asked him what it would cost for he and his partner =
>to=20
>basically build a "Paris version" with an unlimited number of =
>plugins and=20
>limit the number of busses only to the available I/O of the audio =
>interface. I=20
>explained to him about how our group here has been looking for viable =
>solutions=20
>for moving this platform a little further along into the 21st century=20
>(well.....I guess from some of the responses I've gotten from other =
>threads here=20
>about my experiments that maybe there aren't as many still =
>interested in=20
>this than there once were, but anyway.....)</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He has been very cordial and =
>cooperative. I=20
>received a reply from him this morning. I have edited the name of his =
>partner=20
>for now and am posting the reply, as follows:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG><EM>How many licenses are we =
>talking about=20
>here? I assume this could be done by guaranteeing a minimum number =
>of=20
>licenses for some higher price to recover the additional development=20
>costs. **** and I would need to size the effort to come =
>up with=20
>an acceptable rate. <BR> <BR>One concern I would have is that the =
>Paris=20
>users would need to be willing to be beta testers for this functionality
=
>
>first. We could do the work, do a couple of beta drops, and then a =
>
>final.<BR> <BR>Finally, the special features we do would be =
>incorporated=20
>into the product for all to enjoy, but the Paris users would essentially
=
>be=20
>paying more to fund the development.<BR> <BR>Is this close to what =
>you are=20
>thinking?</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
>size=3D2><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have talked in the past about paying
=
>for=20
>upgrades to the Paris system. I am still in contact with my friend who=20
>programmed the MRI software and he is still interested in the delay =
>compensation=20
>idea for Paris, but we would have to have the source code from ID and =
>that is=20
>not forthcoming, to my knowledge.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know that this is yet another =
>workaround and=20
>involves a lot of *outside the box* stuff, but what I have done here=20
>works.....and works better than anything else I've tried. the only other
=
>thinkg=20
>that I know of that *might* be able to pull this off is NI KORE. Though
=
>I love=20
>their B4, Bandstand, etc., KORE does not appear ready for prime time, =
>IMO, and=20
>for the pruposes I envision, is definitely overkill with a big price =
>tag.=20
></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have also seen on one of the websites
=
>associated=20
>with Forte that the Senderella code was used for their aux bus plugin =
>for this=20
>app. I will be trying this out later today to see how well it=20
>works.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't want to yank anyone's chain =
>either here or=20
>at Brainspawn. Let me know if you are interested in pursuing =
>this and if=20
>you would be willing to pay for something like this. </FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can PM me if you want at <A=20
>href=3D"mailto:animix@animas.net">animix@animas.net</A> or post=20
>here.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Deej</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </DIV>
><DIV><BR><STRONG><EM> <BR></EM></STRONG></DIV></FONT >
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74070 is a reply to message #74048] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 16:52 |
duncan
Messages: 123
Registered: November 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
As soon as this gets boiled down enough for me to actually read and
comprehend -- I'm in...!
Chas.
(DJ -- you blew the coffee thing man, but I know you know it was
really more an offer of moral support. Keep punchin' -- we're all
still interested...)
On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:34:21 -0600, "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
>First, I'll review my working method so far:
>
>Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>
>I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and other VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix scenatio with Paris automation.
>
>Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are set to 512k:
>
>Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10 + 1 samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer latency.
>( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>
>Patch the Paris ADAT I/O to the I/O of the native audio interface and configure inserts to I/O in Paris patchbay-save as template routing.
>
>In Forte, create input and output busses and assign the native I/O that correlates to the Paris I/O
>Add a UAD-1 Delaycomp set to compensate for 5 plugins on each Forte output bus.
>Insert whatever number of UAD-1 plugins after the Delaycomp plugin on each bus and reduce the number of pluins the Delaycomp is compensating for by the number of UAD-1 plugins on that bus.
>
>Start playback in Paris. Your track will be processed at very low latency and you will be able to effectively use the Paris editor timeline to reference your fader automation moves.
>
>This sounds complicated. It's not, at least for me. It's very easy to set up and save. I've got a mix template set up in Forte and patchbay/mixer timplates set up in Paris. A few clicks and I'm good. Forte has been very stable for me so far with 12 mono input busses, 12 mono output busses and a stereo bus processing 14 Paris tracks across EDS cards. At this point, I run out of access to my output points to create more busses in the Forte menu. Forte is capable of 32 busses and 32 instruments/plugins, so a few more would be available to me if I created more stereo.busses, but since the Delaycomp is a plugin and must be on each bus, the number of busses must always be substantially less than the number of UAD-1 plugins since applying even one plugin after each Delaycomp will effectively double the number of plugins that Forte will need o be capable of handling .....thus the dilemma. In order to work, forte will need to be able to create as many busses as there are physical I/O and
>will need to be able to host, in theroy, at least 6 plugins per bus. On my rig, that would number in the hundreds (in theory).
>
>Personally, I like mixing in Paris and this is the most viable solution I've found for using a second computer as a standalone VST processor rack which is able to reliably interface with Paris in a practical way at low latency.
>
>I have seen reports that this program can also be interfaced between two workstations using Wormhole. I haven't tried it so I don't know how well that would work.
>
>The price of this program in it's current incarnation is $129.95.
>
>I have shared a few e-mails with the developer. In one of them I asked him what it would cost for he and his partner to basically build a "Paris version" with an unlimited number of plugins and limit the number of busses only to the available I/O of the audio interface. I explained to him about how our group here has been looking for viable solutions for moving this platform a little further along into the 21st century (well.....I guess from some of the responses I've gotten from other threads here about my experiments that maybe there aren't as many still interested in this than there once were, but anyway.....)
>
>He has been very cordial and cooperative. I received a reply from him this morning. I have edited the name of his partner for now and am posting the reply, as follows:
>
>How many licenses are we talking about here? I assume this could be done by guaranteeing a minimum number of licenses for some higher price to recover the additional development costs. **** and I would need to size the effort to come up with an acceptable rate.
>
>One concern I would have is that the Paris users would need to be willing to be beta testers for this functionality first. We could do the work, do a couple of beta drops, and then a final.
>
>Finally, the special features we do would be incorporated into the product for all to enjoy, but the Paris users would essentially be paying more to fund the development.
>
>Is this close to what you are thinking?
>
>We have talked in the past about paying for upgrades to the Paris system. I am still in contact with my friend who programmed the MRI software and he is still interested in the delay compensation idea for Paris, but we would have to have the source code from ID and that is not forthcoming, to my knowledge.
>
>I know that this is yet another workaround and involves a lot of *outside the box* stuff, but what I have done here works.....and works better than anything else I've tried. the only other thinkg that I know of that *might* be able to pull this off is NI KORE. Though I love their B4, Bandstand, etc., KORE does not appear ready for prime time, IMO, and for the pruposes I envision, is definitely overkill with a big price tag.
>
>I have also seen on one of the websites associated with Forte that the Senderella code was used for their aux bus plugin for this app. I will be trying this out later today to see how well it works.
>
>I don't want to yank anyone's chain either here or at Brainspawn. Let me know if you are interested in pursuing this and if you would be willing to pay for something like this.
>
>You can PM me if you want at animix@animas.net or post here.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Deej
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74071 is a reply to message #74064] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 17:06 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I thought Chuck D developed a rewire plugin for Paris...or am I totally an
idiot, (probably).
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315d4f@linux...
> Well I did say it was a dumb question...sheesh!
>
> ;-)
>
> D
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315bad@linux...
>> Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
>>
>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
>>> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
>>> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
>>> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
>> track
>>> > in
>>> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
>>> > overmy
>>> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
>>> > them
>>> > into
>>> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>> output
>>> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>>> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
>> takes
>>> > 30
>>> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
>>> > It's
>>> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
>>> > to
>>> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
>>> > and
>>> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
>> EDS
>>> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>>> > bypassed
>>> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>>> > tracks
>>> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>> Forte
>>> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
>>> > project
>>> > in
>>> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
>>> > on
>>> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
>>> >
>>> > Deej
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>>> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>> >>
>>> >> Don
>>> >>
>>> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>>> >> > Dave,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this
>>> >> > is
>> to
>>> >> > have
>>> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
>> are
>>> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
>>> > track
>>> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp
>>> >> > (and
>>> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>>> >> > Sampleslide
>>> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>>> >> > computers
>>> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
>> native
>>> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I
>>> >> > have
>>> >> > tested
>>> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>>> >> > through
>>> >> > Forte
>>> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
>>> >> > then
>>> >> > you
>>> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>>> >> > processed
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5
>>> >> > x
>>> >> > UAD-1
>>> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
>> I'm
>>> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the
>>> >> > latency
>>> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>>> > while
>>> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would
>>> >> > be
>>> >> > nudged
>>> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
>> creates
>>> >> > a
>>> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
>> this
>>> >> > way,
>>> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>>> > wrapper.
>>> >> > I
>>> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>>> >> > compensated
>>> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
>> the
>>> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ;o)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>>> >> >> Hey DJ,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>>> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>>> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Just checking ;-)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> David.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> DJ wrote:
>>> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > other
>>> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>>> > scenatio
>>> >> >> > with Paris automation.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
>> are
>>> >> >> > set
>>> >> >> > to 512k:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left
>>> >> >> > by
>> 10
>>> > +
>>> >> >> > 1
>>> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>>> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on
>>> >> >> > native
>>> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>>> >> >> > latency.
>>> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> snip
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74072 is a reply to message #74067] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 17:01 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Actually, it would be possible to do this with three computers, with one of
my HDSP soundcards in each one, with the UAD-1 cards distributed between
the three computers and all three audio interfaces synced to Paris ADAT sync
(the house clock) and three Forte licenses. I actually have two computers
ready to go and another one that I'm building right now. I could actually do
this if I get desperate enough.
Right now I'm experimenting with mixing a 36 track Cubase Project. It's like
slogging uphill through knee deep mud compared to the Paris mix bus. There's
no comparison at all.....none.
I'm sure that I would be able to eventually get something I would like, but
it would be just as agonizing as what I'm doing now to get anywhere close.
Of course, everything gets easier over time. I'm going to have to change my
whole mix mindset to work this way though and right now, I think I'd rather
use 4 computers than mix ITB in cubase SX.
Jury is still definitely out and using three computers running Forte is
definitely not out of the question..
;o)
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:453162e5$1@linux...
>
> Hey Deej, would it be possible to use multiple PCs to get all the
processing
> track counts your looking for? The wormhole thing would be really cool if
> that worked.
>
> James
>
>
> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote:
> >That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I track
> in
> >Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
> >network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
> into
> >a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
output
> >busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> >processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It takes
> 30
> >minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
> >almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
> >jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
> >importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
EDS
> >external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
bypassed
> >until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
tracks
> >and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
Forte
> >to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project
> in
> >5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
> >inserts and auxes in Paris.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >
> >"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> >> > Dave,
> >> >
> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
> to
> >> > have
> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
> are
> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
> >track
> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> >> > Sampleslide
> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> >> > computers
> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
native
> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
> >> > tested
> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
> >> > Forte
> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
> then
> >> > you
> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
> in
> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5
> x
> >> > UAD-1
> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
> I'm
> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
> >while
> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
> >> > nudged
> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
creates
> a
> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
this
> >> > way,
> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> >wrapper.
> >> > I
> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> >> > compensated
> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
the
> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
> >> >
> >> > ;o)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
> >> >> Hey DJ,
> >> >>
> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just checking ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> David.
> >> >>
> >> >> DJ wrote:
> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
> >> >> > other
> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> >scenatio
> >> >> > with Paris automation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
> are
> >> >> > set
> >> >> > to 512k:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
> 10
> >+
> >> >> > 1
> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
> >> >> > latency.
> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >> >> >
> >> >> snip
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74074 is a reply to message #74071] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 19:07 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>I thought Chuck D developed a rewire plugin for Paris...or am I totally
an
>idiot, (probably).
I think you're getting confused with the "wires" add-on which was included
in the effects subsystem patch that Chuck and co developed. This doesn't
work with rewire however, it simply increases your patching options around
Paris itself.
Cheers,
Kim.
>--
>Martin Harrington
>www.lendanear-sound.com
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315d4f@linux...
>> Well I did say it was a dumb question...sheesh!
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> D
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315bad@linux...
>>> Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
>>>
>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
>>>> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
>>>> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
>>>> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If
I
>>> track
>>>> > in
>>>> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
>>>> > overmy
>>>> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
>>>> > them
>>>> > into
>>>> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>>> output
>>>> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>>>> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
>>> takes
>>>> > 30
>>>> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
>>>> > It's
>>>> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
>>>> > to
>>>> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
>>>> > and
>>>> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with
the
>>> EDS
>>>> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>>>> > bypassed
>>>> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>>>> > tracks
>>>> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>>> Forte
>>>> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
>>>> > project
>>>> > in
>>>> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
>>>> > on
>>>> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
>>>> >
>>>> > Deej
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>>>> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Don
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>>>> >> > Dave,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this
>>>> >> > is
>>> to
>>>> >> > have
>>>> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether
they
>>> are
>>>> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this,
each
>>>> > track
>>>> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp
>>>> >> > (and
>>>> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>>>> >> > Sampleslide
>>>> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the
two
>>>> >> > computers
>>>> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
>>> native
>>>> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I
>>>> >> > have
>>>> >> > tested
>>>> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>>>> >> > through
>>>> >> > Forte
>>>> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do,
but
>>>> >> > then
>>>> >> > you
>>>> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>>>> >> > processed
>>>> >> > in
>>>> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency
of 5
>>>> >> > x
>>>> >> > UAD-1
>>>> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it,
but
>>> I'm
>>>> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the
>>>> >> > latency
>>>> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>>>> > while
>>>> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would
>>>> >> > be
>>>> >> > nudged
>>>> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
>>> creates
>>>> >> > a
>>>> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
>>> this
>>>> >> > way,
>>>> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>>>> > wrapper.
>>>> >> > I
>>>> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>>>> >> > compensated
>>>> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
>>> the
>>>> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ;o)
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>>> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>>>> >> >> Hey DJ,
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>>>> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>>>> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Just checking ;-)
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> David.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> DJ wrote:
>>>> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1
>>>> >> >> > and
>>>> >> >> > other
>>>> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>>>> > scenatio
>>>> >> >> > with Paris automation.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio
card
>>> are
>>>> >> >> > set
>>>> >> >> > to 512k:
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left
>>>> >> >> > by
>>> 10
>>>> > +
>>>> >> >> > 1
>>>> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>>>> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on
>>>> >> >> > native
>>>> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>>>> >> >> > latency.
>>>> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> snip
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74076 is a reply to message #74074] |
Sat, 14 October 2006 21:54 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That's it...Who's a clever boy then??
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:453197de$1@linux...
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>I thought Chuck D developed a rewire plugin for Paris...or am I totally
> an
>>idiot, (probably).
>
> I think you're getting confused with the "wires" add-on which was included
> in the effects subsystem patch that Chuck and co developed. This doesn't
> work with rewire however, it simply increases your patching options around
> Paris itself.
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.
>
>
>>--
>>Martin Harrington
>>www.lendanear-sound.com
>>
>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315d4f@linux...
>>> Well I did say it was a dumb question...sheesh!
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> D
>>>
>>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315bad@linux...
>>>> Paris barely supports VST, much less Rewire.
>>>>
>>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45315b3f@linux...
>>>>> dumb Q - why couldn't you do this with rewire and cubase on the same
>>>>> machine as Paris or does Paris not support it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Don
>>>>>
>>>>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45315886@linux...
>>>>> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If
> I
>>>> track
>>>>> > in
>>>>> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
>
>>>>> > overmy
>>>>> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
>
>>>>> > them
>>>>> > into
>>>>> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>>>> output
>>>>> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>>>>> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
>>>> takes
>>>>> > 30
>>>>> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
>
>>>>> > It's
>>>>> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid
>>>>> > having
>
>>>>> > to
>>>>> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
>
>>>>> > and
>>>>> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with
> the
>>>> EDS
>>>>> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>>>>> > bypassed
>>>>> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>>>>> > tracks
>>>>> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>>>> Forte
>>>>> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
>>>>> > project
>>>>> > in
>>>>> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
>
>>>>> > on
>>>>> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Deej
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message
>>>>> > news:453152c8$1@linux...
>>>>> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Don
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>>>>> >> > Dave,
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this
>
>>>>> >> > is
>>>> to
>>>>> >> > have
>>>>> >> > all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether
> they
>>>> are
>>>>> >> > being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this,
> each
>>>>> > track
>>>>> >> > has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp
>
>>>>> >> > (and
>>>>> >> > whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>>>>> >> > Sampleslide
>>>>> >> > instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the
> two
>>>>> >> > computers
>>>>> >> > caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
>>>> native
>>>>> >> > platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I
>
>>>>> >> > have
>>>>> >> > tested
>>>>> >> > it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>>>>> >> > through
>>>>> >> > Forte
>>>>> >> > and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do,
> but
>>>>> >> > then
>>>>> >> > you
>>>>> >> > get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>>>>> >> > processed
>>>>> >> > in
>>>>> >> > Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency
> of 5
>>>>> >> > x
>>>>> >> > UAD-1
>>>>> >> > plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it,
> but
>>>> I'm
>>>>> >> > going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the
>>>>> >> > latency
>>>>> >> > threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris
>>>>> >> > timeline
>>>>> > while
>>>>> >> > mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte
>>>>> >> > would
>
>>>>> >> > be
>>>>> >> > nudged
>>>>> >> > a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
>>>> creates
>>>>> >> > a
>>>>> >> > nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
>>>> this
>>>>> >> > way,
>>>>> >> > I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>>>>> > wrapper.
>>>>> >> > I
>>>>> >> > want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>>>>> >> > compensated
>>>>> >> > rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it
>>>>> >> > defeats
>>>> the
>>>>> >> > purpose to my way of thinking.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > ;o)
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>>>> >> > news:453148b2$1@linux...
>>>>> >> >> Hey DJ,
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>>>>> >> >> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>>>>> >> >> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> Just checking ;-)
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> David.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> DJ wrote:
>>>>> >> >> > First, I'll review my working method so far:
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1
>
>>>>> >> >> > and
>>>>> >> >> > other
>>>>> >> >> > VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>>>>> > scenatio
>>>>> >> >> > with Paris automation.
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio
> card
>>>> are
>>>>> >> >> > set
>>>>> >> >> > to 512k:
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> > Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left
>
>>>>> >> >> > by
>>>> 10
>>>>> > +
>>>>> >> >> > 1
>>>>> >> >> > samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>>>>> >> >> > Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on
>
>>>>> >> >> > native
>>>>> >> >> > insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with
>>>>> >> >> > buffer
>>>>> >> >> > latency.
>>>>> >> >> > ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>> >> >> snip
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74080 is a reply to message #74061] |
Sun, 15 October 2006 04:34 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
wow, what a pain in the ass !
J wrote:
> That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I track in
> Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
> network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them into
> a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono output
> busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It takes 30
> minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
> almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
> jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
> importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the EDS
> external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and bypassed
> until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris tracks
> and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open Forte
> to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project in
> 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
> inserts and auxes in Paris.
>
> Deej
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>
>> Don
>>
>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is to
>>> have
>>> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they are
>>> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
> track
>>> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>>> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>>> Sampleslide
>>> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>>> computers
>>> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
>>> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>>> tested
>>> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
>>> Forte
>>> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but then
>>> you
>>> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed in
>>> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
>>> UAD-1
>>> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but I'm
>>> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>>> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
> while
>>> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
>>> nudged
>>> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates a
>>> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
>>> way,
>>> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> wrapper.
>>> I
>>> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>>> compensated
>>> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
>>> purpose to my way of thinking.
>>>
>>> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:453148b2$1@linux...
>>>> Hey DJ,
>>>>
>>>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>>>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>>>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>>>>
>>>> Just checking ;-)
>>>>
>>>> David.
>>>>
>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>> First, I'll review my working method so far:
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>>>>>
>>>>> I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>>>>> other
>>>>> VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> scenatio
>>>>> with Paris automation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are
>>>>> set
>>>>> to 512k:
>>>>>
>>>>> Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10
> +
>>>>> 1
>>>>> samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>>>>> Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>>>>> insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>>>>> latency.
>>>>> ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>>>>>
>>>> snip
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74083 is a reply to message #74080] |
Sun, 15 October 2006 08:25 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well....I could mix in Paris, or in Cubase at this point. I prefer what I'm
doing for a reason. I guess you'd best do something else.
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45321abd@linux...
> wow, what a pain in the ass !
>
> J wrote:
> > That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
track in
> > Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
> > network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
into
> > a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
output
> > busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> > processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
takes 30
> > minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
> > almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
> > jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
> > importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
EDS
> > external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
bypassed
> > until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
tracks
> > and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
Forte
> > to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project
in
> > 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
> > inserts and auxes in Paris.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> >
> > "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
> >> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> >>> Dave,
> >>>
> >>> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
to
> >>> have
> >>> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
are
> >>> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
> > track
> >>> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
> >>> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> >>> Sampleslide
> >>> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> >>> computers
> >>> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
native
> >>> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
> >>> tested
> >>> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
> >>> Forte
> >>> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
then
> >>> you
> >>> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
in
> >>> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
> >>> UAD-1
> >>> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
I'm
> >>> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
> >>> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
> > while
> >>> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
> >>> nudged
> >>> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates
a
> >>> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
> >>> way,
> >>> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> > wrapper.
> >>> I
> >>> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> >>> compensated
> >>> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
> >>> purpose to my way of thinking.
> >>>
> >>> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
> >>>
> >>> ;o)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >>> news:453148b2$1@linux...
> >>>> Hey DJ,
> >>>>
> >>>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> >>>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> >>>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just checking ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> David.
> >>>>
> >>>> DJ wrote:
> >>>>> First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> > scenatio
> >>>>> with Paris automation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are
> >>>>> set
> >>>>> to 512k:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10
> > +
> >>>>> 1
> >>>>> samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> >>>>> Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
> >>>>> insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
> >>>>> latency.
> >>>>> ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >>>>>
> >>>> snip
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74084 is a reply to message #74080] |
Sun, 15 October 2006 08:56 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Actually John once you get things setup and create a template in both apps
you're good to go. Deej walked me through his lastest setup (configured to
my modules) and we were pretty well done in 15 minutes with an additional
1/2 hour on my part to make sure all components were playing nicely with
each other.
Funny thing was I was able to use this basic template in two other apps -
Saw studio (demo) and Reaper (demo) with no real problems at all.
Don
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45321abd@linux...
> wow, what a pain in the ass !
>
> J wrote:
>> That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I track
>> in
>> Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them overmy
>> network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
>> into
>> a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>> output
>> busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>> processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It takes
>> 30
>> minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
>> almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having to
>> jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
>> importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
>> EDS
>> external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>> bypassed
>> until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>> tracks
>> and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>> Forte
>> to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track project
>> in
>> 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
>> inserts and auxes in Paris.
>>
>> Deej
>>
>>
>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is to
>>>> have
>>>> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they are
>>>> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
>> track
>>>> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>>>> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>>>> Sampleslide
>>>> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>>>> computers
>>>> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the native
>>>> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>>>> tested
>>>> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
>>>> Forte
>>>> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
>>>> then
>>>> you
>>>> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
>>>> in
>>>> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
>>>> UAD-1
>>>> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but I'm
>>>> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>>>> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>> while
>>>> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
>>>> nudged
>>>> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This creates
>>>> a
>>>> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work this
>>>> way,
>>>> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>> wrapper.
>>>> I
>>>> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>>>> compensated
>>>> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats the
>>>> purpose to my way of thinking.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:453148b2$1@linux...
>>>>> Hey DJ,
>>>>>
>>>>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>>>>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>>>>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just checking ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> David.
>>>>>
>>>>> DJ wrote:
>>>>>> First, I'll review my working method so far:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>> scenatio
>>>>>> with Paris automation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card are
>>>>>> set
>>>>>> to 512k:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by 10
>> +
>>>>>> 1
>>>>>> samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>>>>>> Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>>>>>> insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>>>>>> latency.
>>>>>> ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>>>>>>
>>>>> snip
>>>>
>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74085 is a reply to message #74084] |
Sun, 15 October 2006 10:29 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Don,
I'm just a bit crabby this morning. Apologies to brother John for my
smartass remark Mixing like this really can be a PITA when you've got as
many I/O as I do. I'm thinking about moving to a Pulsar rig but more on that
later. As for what's going on here now, the applications themselves are very
stable on their own but there is all sorts of potential for clocking errors.
One of the main reasons for this (I'm almost certain) is because of the
sample delay between EDS cards. Signals that are routed between the digital
I/O of the RME cards from ADAT modules on MECs attached to Cards B/C/D are
almost certainly receiving this sample latency. It's a wonder this even
works at all. Add to it the fact that the RME cards are all receiving their
clock signal from MEC ADAT modules and the modules are on cards A & B, it's
almost certain that the RME card that is attached to the MEC on Card B is
receiving a clock signal that is not sample accurate with the signal that
the other two RME cards are receiving from the ADAT modules on card A. Now,
let's throw into this whole equatiion the fact that I've got three outboard
modules patched into the three S/Pdif I/O of the RME cards and these devices
are receiving their clock signals from the RME cards which are clocked to
the Paris ADAT sync and the signals that are routed/being processed through
them are routed through auxes on MECs attached to Card C and D (now there's
the sample delay between signals routed through these procesors and the 4 x
EDS cards and the three RME cards.) OK...we're not done yet.........let's
throw into the equation that one of these outboard processors, a Quantec
Yardstick has AES I/O only and is routed through two format converters. Now
let's move on to the fact that the SPdif I/O of Paris cards A, B, C, a Sony
DPS, V77, a POD XP Pro, two Mytek converters and the ADAT I/O of one of the
HDSP 9652 cards, the Multiface, ADAT #2 of MEC on card C and ADAT #1 of Card
D and the Optical input of my Benchmark DAC-1 are all being interpatched
through two MAudio Digipatch units which*do not* reclock the signals
(although the Benchmark DAC-1 does)......and finally, due to the fact that
these outboard devices are spread out in racks in various parts of theroom,
many of the S/Pdif cables and lightpipe cables which are carrying (likely
inaccurate) clock signals between these different devices are of varying
lengths.....some of them over 20' long. It's a miracle that thiseven works,
much works and sounds good to boot. I do hold my breath every time I fire it
up though and I'm getting kinda tired of that.
I've been told that I'm one of those personality types that likes to jump
out of perfectly good airplanes....but I sorta' doubt it since I haven't
ever done that.
Never a boring moment.
;o)
"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45325830@linux...
> Actually John once you get things setup and create a template in both apps
> you're good to go. Deej walked me through his lastest setup (configured
to
> my modules) and we were pretty well done in 15 minutes with an additional
> 1/2 hour on my part to make sure all components were playing nicely with
> each other.
>
> Funny thing was I was able to use this basic template in two other apps -
> Saw studio (demo) and Reaper (demo) with no real problems at all.
>
> Don
>
>
> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45321abd@linux...
> > wow, what a pain in the ass !
> >
> > J wrote:
> >> That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
track
> >> in
> >> Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
overmy
> >> network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import them
> >> into
> >> a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
> >> output
> >> busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
> >> processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
takes
> >> 30
> >> minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going. It's
> >> almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
to
> >> jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL and
> >> importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
> >> EDS
> >> external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
> >> bypassed
> >> until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
> >> tracks
> >> and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
> >> Forte
> >> to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
project
> >> in
> >> 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware on
> >> inserts and auxes in Paris.
> >>
> >> Deej
> >>
> >>
> >> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
> >>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
> >>>
> >>> Don
> >>>
> >>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
> >>>> Dave,
> >>>>
> >>>> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
to
> >>>> have
> >>>> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
are
> >>>> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
> >> track
> >>>> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
> >>>> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
> >>>> Sampleslide
> >>>> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
> >>>> computers
> >>>> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
native
> >>>> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
> >>>> tested
> >>>> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks through
> >>>> Forte
> >>>> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
> >>>> then
> >>>> you
> >>>> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being processed
> >>>> in
> >>>> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5 x
> >>>> UAD-1
> >>>> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
I'm
> >>>> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
> >>>> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
> >> while
> >>>> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would be
> >>>> nudged
> >>>> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
creates
> >>>> a
> >>>> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
this
> >>>> way,
> >>>> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
> >> wrapper.
> >>>> I
> >>>> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
> >>>> compensated
> >>>> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
the
> >>>> purpose to my way of thinking.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
> >>>>
> >>>> ;o)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >>>> news:453148b2$1@linux...
> >>>>> Hey DJ,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
> >>>>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
> >>>>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just checking ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> DJ wrote:
> >>>>>> First, I'll review my working method so far:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Basically where we are with this is as follows:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
> >>>>>> other
> >>>>>> VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
> >> scenatio
> >>>>>> with Paris automation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
are
> >>>>>> set
> >>>>>> to 512k:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
10
> >> +
> >>>>>> 1
> >>>>>> samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
> >>>>>> Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
> >>>>>> insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
> >>>>>> latency.
> >>>>>> ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> snip
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74087 is a reply to message #74085] |
Sun, 15 October 2006 11:35 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Wow talk about convoluted...you're absolutely right, it is amazing it
works.
Out of curiosity did you give Reaper a shot?
DOn
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45327020@linux...
> Hi Don,
>
> I'm just a bit crabby this morning. Apologies to brother John for my
> smartass remark Mixing like this really can be a PITA when you've got as
> many I/O as I do. I'm thinking about moving to a Pulsar rig but more on
> that
> later. As for what's going on here now, the applications themselves are
> very
> stable on their own but there is all sorts of potential for clocking
> errors.
> One of the main reasons for this (I'm almost certain) is because of the
> sample delay between EDS cards. Signals that are routed between the
> digital
> I/O of the RME cards from ADAT modules on MECs attached to Cards B/C/D are
> almost certainly receiving this sample latency. It's a wonder this even
> works at all. Add to it the fact that the RME cards are all receiving
> their
> clock signal from MEC ADAT modules and the modules are on cards A & B,
> it's
> almost certain that the RME card that is attached to the MEC on Card B is
> receiving a clock signal that is not sample accurate with the signal that
> the other two RME cards are receiving from the ADAT modules on card A.
> Now,
> let's throw into this whole equatiion the fact that I've got three
> outboard
> modules patched into the three S/Pdif I/O of the RME cards and these
> devices
> are receiving their clock signals from the RME cards which are clocked to
> the Paris ADAT sync and the signals that are routed/being processed
> through
> them are routed through auxes on MECs attached to Card C and D (now
> there's
> the sample delay between signals routed through these procesors and the 4
> x
> EDS cards and the three RME cards.) OK...we're not done yet.........let's
> throw into the equation that one of these outboard processors, a Quantec
> Yardstick has AES I/O only and is routed through two format converters.
> Now
> let's move on to the fact that the SPdif I/O of Paris cards A, B, C, a
> Sony
> DPS, V77, a POD XP Pro, two Mytek converters and the ADAT I/O of one of
> the
> HDSP 9652 cards, the Multiface, ADAT #2 of MEC on card C and ADAT #1 of
> Card
> D and the Optical input of my Benchmark DAC-1 are all being interpatched
> through two MAudio Digipatch units which*do not* reclock the signals
> (although the Benchmark DAC-1 does)......and finally, due to the fact that
> these outboard devices are spread out in racks in various parts of
> theroom,
> many of the S/Pdif cables and lightpipe cables which are carrying (likely
> inaccurate) clock signals between these different devices are of varying
> lengths.....some of them over 20' long. It's a miracle that thiseven
> works,
> much works and sounds good to boot. I do hold my breath every time I fire
> it
> up though and I'm getting kinda tired of that.
>
> I've been told that I'm one of those personality types that likes to jump
> out of perfectly good airplanes....but I sorta' doubt it since I haven't
> ever done that.
>
> Never a boring moment.
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45325830@linux...
>> Actually John once you get things setup and create a template in both
>> apps
>> you're good to go. Deej walked me through his lastest setup (configured
> to
>> my modules) and we were pretty well done in 15 minutes with an
>> additional
>> 1/2 hour on my part to make sure all components were playing nicely with
>> each other.
>>
>> Funny thing was I was able to use this basic template in two other apps -
>> Saw studio (demo) and Reaper (demo) with no real problems at all.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45321abd@linux...
>> > wow, what a pain in the ass !
>> >
>> > J wrote:
>> >> That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
> track
>> >> in
>> >> Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
> overmy
>> >> network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
>> >> them
>> >> into
>> >> a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>> >> output
>> >> busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>> >> processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
> takes
>> >> 30
>> >> minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
>> >> It's
>> >> almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
> to
>> >> jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
>> >> and
>> >> importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
>> >> EDS
>> >> external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>> >> bypassed
>> >> until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>> >> tracks
>> >> and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>> >> Forte
>> >> to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
> project
>> >> in
>> >> 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
>> >> on
>> >> inserts and auxes in Paris.
>> >>
>> >> Deej
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> >>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>> >>>
>> >>> Don
>> >>>
>> >>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>> >>>> Dave,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
> to
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
> are
>> >>>> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
>> >> track
>> >>>> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>> >>>> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>> >>>> Sampleslide
>> >>>> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>> >>>> computers
>> >>>> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
> native
>> >>>> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>> >>>> tested
>> >>>> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>> >>>> through
>> >>>> Forte
>> >>>> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
>> >>>> then
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>> >>>> processed
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5
>> >>>> x
>> >>>> UAD-1
>> >>>> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
> I'm
>> >>>> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>> >>>> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>> >> while
>> >>>> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> nudged
>> >>>> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
> creates
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
> this
>> >>>> way,
>> >>>> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>> >> wrapper.
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>> >>>> compensated
>> >>>> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
> the
>> >>>> purpose to my way of thinking.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ;o)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>> news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> >>>>> Hey DJ,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> >>>>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> >>>>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Just checking ;-)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> David.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> DJ wrote:
>> >>>>>> First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>> >>>>>> other
>> >>>>>> VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>> >> scenatio
>> >>>>>> with Paris automation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
> are
>> >>>>>> set
>> >>>>>> to 512k:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
> 10
>> >> +
>> >>>>>> 1
>> >>>>>> samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> >>>>>> Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>> >>>>>> insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>> >>>>>> latency.
>> >>>>>> ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> snip
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Forte development especially for Paris-feedback please [message #74088 is a reply to message #74085] |
Sun, 15 October 2006 11:36 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Funny you mention Pulsar as that was one of the two DAW's we were looking at
way back when, Paris being the other of course.
"DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45327020@linux...
> Hi Don,
>
> I'm just a bit crabby this morning. Apologies to brother John for my
> smartass remark Mixing like this really can be a PITA when you've got as
> many I/O as I do. I'm thinking about moving to a Pulsar rig but more on
> that
> later. As for what's going on here now, the applications themselves are
> very
> stable on their own but there is all sorts of potential for clocking
> errors.
> One of the main reasons for this (I'm almost certain) is because of the
> sample delay between EDS cards. Signals that are routed between the
> digital
> I/O of the RME cards from ADAT modules on MECs attached to Cards B/C/D are
> almost certainly receiving this sample latency. It's a wonder this even
> works at all. Add to it the fact that the RME cards are all receiving
> their
> clock signal from MEC ADAT modules and the modules are on cards A & B,
> it's
> almost certain that the RME card that is attached to the MEC on Card B is
> receiving a clock signal that is not sample accurate with the signal that
> the other two RME cards are receiving from the ADAT modules on card A.
> Now,
> let's throw into this whole equatiion the fact that I've got three
> outboard
> modules patched into the three S/Pdif I/O of the RME cards and these
> devices
> are receiving their clock signals from the RME cards which are clocked to
> the Paris ADAT sync and the signals that are routed/being processed
> through
> them are routed through auxes on MECs attached to Card C and D (now
> there's
> the sample delay between signals routed through these procesors and the 4
> x
> EDS cards and the three RME cards.) OK...we're not done yet.........let's
> throw into the equation that one of these outboard processors, a Quantec
> Yardstick has AES I/O only and is routed through two format converters.
> Now
> let's move on to the fact that the SPdif I/O of Paris cards A, B, C, a
> Sony
> DPS, V77, a POD XP Pro, two Mytek converters and the ADAT I/O of one of
> the
> HDSP 9652 cards, the Multiface, ADAT #2 of MEC on card C and ADAT #1 of
> Card
> D and the Optical input of my Benchmark DAC-1 are all being interpatched
> through two MAudio Digipatch units which*do not* reclock the signals
> (although the Benchmark DAC-1 does)......and finally, due to the fact that
> these outboard devices are spread out in racks in various parts of
> theroom,
> many of the S/Pdif cables and lightpipe cables which are carrying (likely
> inaccurate) clock signals between these different devices are of varying
> lengths.....some of them over 20' long. It's a miracle that thiseven
> works,
> much works and sounds good to boot. I do hold my breath every time I fire
> it
> up though and I'm getting kinda tired of that.
>
> I've been told that I'm one of those personality types that likes to jump
> out of perfectly good airplanes....but I sorta' doubt it since I haven't
> ever done that.
>
> Never a boring moment.
>
> ;o)
>
>
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:45325830@linux...
>> Actually John once you get things setup and create a template in both
>> apps
>> you're good to go. Deej walked me through his lastest setup (configured
> to
>> my modules) and we were pretty well done in 15 minutes with an
>> additional
>> 1/2 hour on my part to make sure all components were playing nicely with
>> each other.
>>
>> Funny thing was I was able to use this basic template in two other apps -
>> Saw studio (demo) and Reaper (demo) with no real problems at all.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> "John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:45321abd@linux...
>> > wow, what a pain in the ass !
>> >
>> > J wrote:
>> >> That's correct. this is what I'm doing in Cubase SX right now. If I
> track
>> >> in
>> >> Paris (which I love for tracking) then render the files, fly them
> overmy
>> >> network, batch convert them to .wav format in Wavelab, then import
>> >> them
>> >> into
>> >> a Cubase project to be processed and then set the SX tracks on mono
>> >> output
>> >> busses to stream the tracks back over lightpipe to Paris for further
>> >> processing, panning and summing, then the system is very stable. It
> takes
>> >> 30
>> >> minutes to an hour per song (24 tracks average) to get this going.
>> >> It's
>> >> almost second nature to me now actually, but I'd like to avoid having
> to
>> >> jump through the initial hoops of rendering, batch conversion in WL
>> >> and
>> >> importing into Cubase. With my Paris tracking template set up with the
>> >> EDS
>> >> external inserts and the Sampleslide native insert ready to go and
>> >> bypassed
>> >> until mix time, I could just enable the inserts, highlight all Paris
>> >> tracks
>> >> and nudge them 10 + 1, click on my mix patchbay setup in Paris, open
>> >> Forte
>> >> to the default rack processor template and I'm mixing a 40 track
> project
>> >> in
>> >> 5 minutes with delay compensated UAD-1 plugins and external hardware
>> >> on
>> >> inserts and auxes in Paris.
>> >>
>> >> Deej
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote in message news:453152c8$1@linux...
>> >>> hence the need for such a large I/O interface?
>> >>>
>> >>> Don
>> >>>
>> >>> "DJ" <notachance@net.net> wrote in message news:45314e37@linux...
>> >>>> Dave,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> All tracks are being played back through Paris. The point of this is
> to
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> all tracks crossing the editor timeline simultaneously whether they
> are
>> >>>> being processed by a plugin, or not. In order to achieve this, each
>> >> track
>> >>>> has to be sent to a Forte bus, processed by the UAD-1 Delaycomp (and
>> >>>> whatever else) then returned to Paris. the "nudge" and then the
>> >>>> Sampleslide
>> >>>> instance in Paris is in order to cover the latency between the two
>> >>>> computers
>> >>>> caused by the 512k buffer settings of the audio interface on the
> native
>> >>>> platforn. without this, there will be flamming of all tracks (I have
>> >>>> tested
>> >>>> it). Another solution would be to process only certain tracks
>> >>>> through
>> >>>> Forte
>> >>>> and leave others to play back in Paris. this is possible to do, but
>> >>>> then
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> get into nudging "all" tracks in Paris that are *not* being
>> >>>> processed
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> Forte by a measured increment which would be the total latency of 5
>> >>>> x
>> >>>> UAD-1
>> >>>> plugins plus the 512K sample buffer. I haven't yet measured it, but
> I'm
>> >>>> going to do so today. I'm thinking this may be well over the latency
>> >>>> threshold that would allow a visual reference to the Paris timeline
>> >> while
>> >>>> mixing, plus, those tracks that are being processed in Forte would
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> nudged
>> >>>> a different number of samples from the ones that weren't. This
> creates
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> nightmare of a messy mix scenario in my mind. If I wanted to work
> this
>> >>>> way,
>> >>>> I'd just be using the UAD-1 plugs in Paris with the FXPansion 3.3
>> >> wrapper.
>> >>>> I
>> >>>> want all lateny to be consistent so that it can be consistently
>> >>>> compensated
>> >>>> rather than doing it differently *per track*, otherwise it defeats
> the
>> >>>> purpose to my way of thinking.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yeah....I'm wayyy to picky, I know.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ;o)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Dave(EK Sound)" <audioguy_editout_@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>> news:453148b2$1@linux...
>> >>>>> Hey DJ,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Quick question on your method... why are you nudging *all*
>> >>>>> Paris tracks? Seems pointless unless you meant nudge all
>> >>>>> tracks being used for external inserts only.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Just checking ;-)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> David.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> DJ wrote:
>> >>>>>> First, I'll review my working method so far:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Basically where we are with this is as follows:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I can stream tracks from Paris *through* Forte, applying UAD-1 and
>> >>>>>> other
>> >>>>>> VST plugins and it appears that this would be usable in a mix
>> >> scenatio
>> >>>>>> with Paris automation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Here are the steps involved if buffers for the native audio card
> are
>> >>>>>> set
>> >>>>>> to 512k:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Paris Editor: highlight all Paris tracks and nudge to the left by
> 10
>> >> +
>> >>>>>> 1
>> >>>>>> samples to compensate for buffer latency in native DAW
>> >>>>>> Paris Mixer: External insert in EDS inserts, Sampleslide on native
>> >>>>>> insert set to 48 samples to achieve sample accuracy with buffer
>> >>>>>> latency.
>> >>>>>> ( this will ned to be done for every track in the mix)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> snip
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>
>
|
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|
|
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