Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!!
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86492 is a reply to message #86489] |
Tue, 12 June 2007 09:35   |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hey James, it's funny Safari was running like a champ when I was surfing around,
but it crashed on me 3 times when I tried to post to this forum.
Like I stated, this happend to alot of Win users when trying out the first
versions of itunes.. Now, itunes is rock solid!!
This is just a beta release..
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can you
be
>specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>
>
>A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the way
>bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the list
>when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up and
down,
>but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click. At
>least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
you
>have a lot of bookmarks.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds me
>when
>>itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>
>>I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>OS-X
>>for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a PC/Mac..
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
is
>>now
>>>on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>
>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86505 is a reply to message #86497] |
Tue, 12 June 2007 13:15 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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From Apples web site:
http://www.apple.com/safari/
Security.
Now you can enjoy worry-free web browsing on any computer. Apple engineers
designed Safari to be secure from day one.
For starters, Safari uses robust encryption to ensure that your private information
stays that way. When you browse a secure site, Safari displays a lock icon
in the upper-right corner of the browser. If you want to know more about
the credentials of a secure site, click the lock icon and Safari displays
detailed information about the site’s security certificate.
Safari supports SSL versions 2 and 3, as well as Transport Layer Security
(TLS), the next generation of Internet security. Safari uses these technologies
to provide a secure, encrypted channel that protects all your information
from online eavesdroppers. And Safari lets you use standards-based authentication
such as Kerberos single sign-on and X.509 personal certificates, or proprietary
protocols like NTLMv2 to log in to secure sites.
Safari also supports a variety of proxy protocols — services that help firewalls
control what flows in and out of the network — including Automatic Proxy
configuration, FTP Proxy, Web Proxy (HTTP), Secure Web Proxy (HTTPS), Streaming
Proxy (RTSP), SOCKS Proxy, and Gopher Proxy.
Pop-up blocking.
Say goodbye to annoying pop-up ads and pop-under windows that clutter up
your desktop and distract you from your browsing.
By default, Safari blocks all unprompted new windows. You can open new windows
when you click links, but you’ll get no surprises from unexpected, unwanted
pop-ups.
Private browsing.
Your browsing is your business. Which is exactly why Safari offers private
browsing — to keep your online activities private. Turn on private browsing
and Safari won’t store your Google searches, your cookies, the history of
sites you’ve visited, your download history, or information from online forms
you’ve filled out.
If you’ve been browsing without private browsing turned on, just use Privacy
Reset to empty your cache and clear Safari of your browsing, forms, and search
history. It’s a one-click clean slate.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security holes
>in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the bad
>stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not IE I'd
>strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>
>TCB
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can you
>be
>>specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>
>>
>>A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the way
>>bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the
list
>>when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up and
>down,
>>but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
At
>>least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
>you
>>have a lot of bookmarks.
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
me
>>when
>>>itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>
>>>I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>OS-X
>>>for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a PC/Mac..
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>is
>>>now
>>>>on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86507 is a reply to message #86497] |
Tue, 12 June 2007 13:26 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security holes
>in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the bad
>stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not IE I'd
>strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>
>TCB
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can you
>be
>>specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>
>>
>>A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the way
>>bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the
list
>>when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up and
>down,
>>but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
At
>>least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
>you
>>have a lot of bookmarks.
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
me
>>when
>>>itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>
>>>I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>OS-X
>>>for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a PC/Mac..
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>is
>>>now
>>>>on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86509 is a reply to message #86507] |
Tue, 12 June 2007 13:56 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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This slashdot article has links
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/12/0120230.shtml
It's not surprising that Apple would be unprepared for the kind of scrutiny
they will get on the security front releasing Windows software, especially
a browser. They've been living in a 'security by obscurity' bubble for some
time now, allowed to make outlandish claims about Apple security and safety.
The Larlhom blog was slashdotted into oblivion but I had a friend send it.
If they want a real presence on windows for their browser they'll have to
learn how to manage this stuff. The Mozilla/Firefox group had their teething
pains as well, but then again they were free software so could leverage both
goodwill and lots of coders to get up to snuff fast.
TCB
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security holes
>>in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the bad
>>stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not IE
I'd
>>strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can you
>>be
>>>specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>>
>>>
>>>A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the
way
>>>bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the
>list
>>>when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up and
>>down,
>>>but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
>At
>>>least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
>>you
>>>have a lot of bookmarks.
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
>me
>>>when
>>>>itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>>
>>>>I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>>OS-X
>>>>for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a PC/Mac..
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>>is
>>>>now
>>>>>on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86510 is a reply to message #86509] |
Tue, 12 June 2007 14:47 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>This slashdot article has links
>
>http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/12/0120230.shtml
>
>It's not surprising that Apple would be unprepared for the kind of scrutiny
>they will get on the security front releasing Windows software, especially
>a browser. They've been living in a 'security by obscurity' bubble for some
>time now, allowed to make outlandish claims about Apple security and safety.
>The Larlhom blog was slashdotted into oblivion but I had a friend send it.
>
Dude there is nothing outlandish about Apple security! I've never had a
virus, worm, hack or anything else in 14 years on Macs! Can you say that?
>
>If they want a real presence on windows for their browser they'll have to
>learn how to manage this stuff. The Mozilla/Firefox group had their teething
>pains as well, but then again they were free software so could leverage
both
>goodwill and lots of coders to get up to snuff fast.
>
>TCB
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security
holes
>>>in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the
bad
>>>stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not IE
>I'd
>>>strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can
you
>>>be
>>>>specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the
>way
>>>>bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the
>>list
>>>>when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up and
>>>down,
>>>>but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
>
>>At
>>>>least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
>>>you
>>>>have a lot of bookmarks.
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
>>me
>>>>when
>>>>>itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>>>
>>>>>I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>>>OS-X
>>>>>for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a
PC/Mac..
>>>>>
>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>>>is
>>>>>now
>>>>>>on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86511 is a reply to message #86509] |
Tue, 12 June 2007 15:45 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
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Safari is built on Konqueror, which is open source.
Apple has already shipped internet software for MSWindows: iTunes. Not
to mention Quicktime. So they do have a bit of experience.
The MSWindows release of Safari is a _beta release_, which means it is
not assumed to be production ready. Use at your own risk.
The guy reporting the problems discussed at slashdot declined to report
them to Apple. He's being criticized for that, but whatever.
As beta problems ARE reported, the expectation (of a normal develpment
cycle) is that they will be addressed by Apple before the final
MSWindows release.
So bash away and report any bugs you find IF you want to participate in
the beta - or wait for the final release if you don't.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
TCB wrote:
> This slashdot article has links
>
> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/12/0120230.shtml
>
> It's not surprising that Apple would be unprepared for the kind of scrutiny
> they will get on the security front releasing Windows software, especially
> a browser. They've been living in a 'security by obscurity' bubble for some
> time now, allowed to make outlandish claims about Apple security and safety.
> The Larlhom blog was slashdotted into oblivion but I had a friend send it.
>
>
> If they want a real presence on windows for their browser they'll have to
> learn how to manage this stuff. The Mozilla/Firefox group had their teething
> pains as well, but then again they were free software so could leverage both
> goodwill and lots of coders to get up to snuff fast.
>
> TCB
>
> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>> Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security holes
>>> in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the bad
>>> stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not IE
> I'd
>>> strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can you
>>> be
>>>> specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the
> way
>>>> bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the
>> list
>>>> when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up and
>>> down,
>>>> but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
>
>> At
>>>> least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
>>> you
>>>> have a lot of bookmarks.
>>>>
>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>> Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
>> me
>>>> when
>>>>> itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>>> OS-X
>>>>> for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a PC/Mac..
>>>>>
>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>>> is
>>>>> now
>>>>>> on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86540 is a reply to message #86510] |
Wed, 13 June 2007 06:25 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>This slashdot article has links
>>
>>http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/12/0120230.shtml
>>
>>It's not surprising that Apple would be unprepared for the kind of scrutiny
>>they will get on the security front releasing Windows software, especially
>>a browser. They've been living in a 'security by obscurity' bubble for
some
>>time now, allowed to make outlandish claims about Apple security and safety.
>>The Larlhom blog was slashdotted into oblivion but I had a friend send
it.
>>
>
>Dude there is nothing outlandish about Apple security! I've never had
a
>virus, worm, hack or anything else in 14 years on Macs! Can you say that?
For the servers I administer and the desktops/laptops I've owned, yes I can
say that.
TCB
>>
>>If they want a real presence on windows for their browser they'll have
to
>>learn how to manage this stuff. The Mozilla/Firefox group had their teething
>>pains as well, but then again they were free software so could leverage
>both
>>goodwill and lots of coders to get up to snuff fast.
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security
>holes
>>>>in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the
>bad
>>>>stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not IE
>>I'd
>>>>strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can
>you
>>>>be
>>>>>specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the
>>way
>>>>>bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of the
>>>list
>>>>>when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up
and
>>>>down,
>>>>>but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
>>
>>>At
>>>>>least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them when
>>>>you
>>>>>have a lot of bookmarks.
>>>>>
>>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
>>>me
>>>>>when
>>>>>>itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>>>>OS-X
>>>>>>for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase a
>PC/Mac..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>>>>is
>>>>>>now
>>>>>>>on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86541 is a reply to message #86511] |
Wed, 13 June 2007 06:39 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
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Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Safari is built on Konqueror, which is open source.
Can I download the source to Safari? Of course not, Apple uses very specific
pieces of K code licensed under the LGPL and locks the rest behind a vault.
Some code is merged back into the K tree but most is not. So if the security
problems are in Apple's code only Apple can fix it.
>Apple has already shipped internet software for MSWindows: iTunes. Not
>to mention Quicktime. So they do have a bit of experience.
A media player ain't a web browser, even if it does connect to a network.
>The MSWindows release of Safari is a _beta release_, which means it is
>not assumed to be production ready. Use at your own risk.
Which is precisely what I said in my first post, probably best to wait. And
btw, I don't think beta software has a right to have massive security problems.
Bugs, crashes, trouble with odd hardware is one thing, code injection, stack
overflows and such are very different.
>The guy reporting the problems discussed at slashdot declined to report
>them to Apple. He's being criticized for that, but whatever.
Which has nothing to do with whether it's a good idea to use an insecure
browser. Personally I don't think people who discover bugs in proprietary
software are bound to reveal them, I think it's a good idea in most cases,
but I don't think it's compelling.
>As beta problems ARE reported, the expectation (of a normal develpment
>cycle) is that they will be addressed by Apple before the final
>MSWindows release.
>
>So bash away and report any bugs you find IF you want to participate in
>the beta - or wait for the final release if you don't.
I wasn't bashing away at anything. Every piece of Apple software for Windows
I've ever dealt with has had major growing pains. The first version if quicktime,
the first version if itunes, and so on. In those situations, it was just
bad software that crashed a lot, and they eventually fixed thing. I have
itunes on one of my XP machines for the internet radio. But a browser is
one of the preferred ways for crackers to do really, really bad things to
a machine without the user doing anything especially stupid. So I was warning
people that within hours of the beta being out there some really serious
problems were coming up. I also suggested that for people who don't want
to use IE (which I applaud) and for some reason don't want to use firefox,
Opera is an excellent alternative.
TCB
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>TCB wrote:
>> This slashdot article has links
>>
>> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/12/0120230.shtml
>>
>> It's not surprising that Apple would be unprepared for the kind of scrutiny
>> they will get on the security front releasing Windows software, especially
>> a browser. They've been living in a 'security by obscurity' bubble for
some
>> time now, allowed to make outlandish claims about Apple security and safety.
>> The Larlhom blog was slashdotted into oblivion but I had a friend send
it.
>>
>>
>> If they want a real presence on windows for their browser they'll have
to
>> learn how to manage this stuff. The Mozilla/Firefox group had their teething
>> pains as well, but then again they were free software so could leverage
both
>> goodwill and lots of coders to get up to snuff fast.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>> Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security
holes
>>>> in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the
bad
>>>> stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not
IE
>> I'd
>>>> strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>>>>
>>>> TCB
>>>>
>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can
you
>>>> be
>>>>> specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the
>> way
>>>>> bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of
the
>>> list
>>>>> when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up
and
>>>> down,
>>>>> but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
>>
>>> At
>>>>> least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them
when
>>>> you
>>>>> have a lot of bookmarks.
>>>>>
>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
>>> me
>>>>> when
>>>>>> itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>>>> OS-X
>>>>>> for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase
a PC/Mac..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>>>> is
>>>>>> now
>>>>>>> on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>>
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| Re: Leopard looks great! Safari is now on Windows!!! [message #86544 is a reply to message #86541] |
Wed, 13 June 2007 08:35 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
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TCB wrote:
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Safari is built on Konqueror, which is open source.
>
> Can I download the source to Safari? Of course not, Apple uses very specific
> pieces of K code licensed under the LGPL and locks the rest behind a vault.
> Some code is merged back into the K tree but most is not. So if the security
> problems are in Apple's code only Apple can fix it.
If so, presumably they will fix it, in due course, during the beta phase.
>> Apple has already shipped internet software for MSWindows: iTunes. Not
>> to mention Quicktime. So they do have a bit of experience.
>
> A media player ain't a web browser, even if it does connect to a network.
I didn't make that claim. I said it's internet software, which it is.
>
>> The MSWindows release of Safari is a _beta release_, which means it is
>> not assumed to be production ready. Use at your own risk.
>
> Which is precisely what I said in my first post, probably best to wait. And
> btw, I don't think beta software has a right to have massive security problems.
> Bugs, crashes, trouble with odd hardware is one thing, code injection, stack
> overflows and such are very different.
Having been in my share of development cycles, beta software knows no
"rights" when it comes to wrongs. :^)
But if you want to criticize Apple's in-house alpha cycle for not
catching enough stuff, that's fine.
And if you want to use the stock "security through obscurity" claim in
every Apple thread, that's fine, too. Although it ignores some of
Apple's actual security efforts and glosses over their rather impressive
results with a vague wave of the hand.
>> The guy reporting the problems discussed at slashdot declined to report
>
>> them to Apple. He's being criticized for that, but whatever.
>
> Which has nothing to do with whether it's a good idea to use an insecure
> browser. Personally I don't think people who discover bugs in proprietary
> software are bound to reveal them, I think it's a good idea in most cases,
> but I don't think it's compelling.
Like I said, he has his reasons so whatever. I didn't criticize him but
some of the folks on slashdot got on his case about it.
I figure someone will report it along with other bugs. It's early in the
beta, a lot of people are using the software and some of them are making
the effort to report bugs.
>> As beta problems ARE reported, the expectation (of a normal develpment
>> cycle) is that they will be addressed by Apple before the final
>> MSWindows release.
>>
>> So bash away and report any bugs you find IF you want to participate in
>
>> the beta - or wait for the final release if you don't.
>
> I wasn't bashing away at anything.
I'm not referring to bashing away at Apple. What I mean is: bash away at
the software. It's a beta, that's what it's for. If anyone wants to test
it, test it. Put it through its paces, do your worst, and when you find
a problem that you would like to see fixed, report it.
> Every piece of Apple software for Windows
> I've ever dealt with has had major growing pains. The first version if quicktime,
> the first version if itunes, and so on.
Maybe that's why they released this one as a beta FIRST, to give you or
others a chance to find problems BEFORE releasing a dot zero version.
> In those situations, it was just
> bad software that crashed a lot, and they eventually fixed thing.
Bad is bad. Fixed is good. :^)
> I have
> itunes on one of my XP machines for the internet radio. But a browser is
> one of the preferred ways for crackers to do really, really bad things to
> a machine without the user doing anything especially stupid. So I was warning
> people that within hours of the beta being out there some really serious
> problems were coming up. I also suggested that for people who don't want
> to use IE (which I applaud) and for some reason don't want to use firefox,
> Opera is an excellent alternative.
Good advice. Firefox is a great choice on either platform, and free. I
run it along with Safari on OSX. I haven't used Opera but those guys are
no slouches.
My advice is to use the beta of Safari on MSWindows only if you don't
mind risking a beta version on your system, but to wait if you do mind
the risks. Standard advice for a beta.
Our advice is not far apart.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> TCB
>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> TCB wrote:
>>> This slashdot article has links
>>>
>>> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/06/12/0120230.shtml
>>>
>>> It's not surprising that Apple would be unprepared for the kind of scrutiny
>>> they will get on the security front releasing Windows software, especially
>>> a browser. They've been living in a 'security by obscurity' bubble for
> some
>>> time now, allowed to make outlandish claims about Apple security and safety.
>>> The Larlhom blog was slashdotted into oblivion but I had a friend send
> it.
>>>
>>> If they want a real presence on windows for their browser they'll have
> to
>>> learn how to manage this stuff. The Mozilla/Firefox group had their teething
>>> pains as well, but then again they were free software so could leverage
> both
>>> goodwill and lots of coders to get up to snuff fast.
>>>
>>> TCB
>>>
>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If this is really true, they will have to fix this quick.
>>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>> Windows security guys are finding 'drive a truck through it' security
> holes
>>>>> in Win Safari. And these are stack overflows and heap corruption, the
> bad
>>>>> stuff. If any windows users want a closed source browser that's not
> IE
>>> I'd
>>>>> strongly suggest Opera. Bruce Schneier uses it. 'Nuff said.
>>>>>
>>>>> TCB
>>>>>
>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Did you actually try Safari? What did you find buggy about it? Can
> you
>>>>> be
>>>>>> specific? What you are finding as bugs, might just be the way it works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A example of something that people might consider to be buggy, is the
>>> way
>>>>>> bookmarks are arranged. The book marks are added to the bottom of
> the
>>>> list
>>>>>> when you add a new bookmark. You can drag bookmarks and folders up
> and
>>>>> down,
>>>>>> but you can't simply arrange them in alphabetical order in one click.
>>>> At
>>>>>> least I haven't found a way. It's a PITA to manually arrange them
> when
>>>>> you
>>>>>> have a lot of bookmarks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Nice..But, a little buggy. That's to be expected from a beta. Reminds
>>>> me
>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> itunes was first introduced , buggy, but now a pretty good player..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't and don't see why Apple just won;t Pull the trigger and release
>>>>>> OS-X
>>>>>>> for any PC ..Give us an alternative without having to re-purchase
> a PC/Mac..
>>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Leopard is really looking cool, and it's still only $129.00. Safari
>>>>> is
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>> on Windows. Apple is making some moves. More to come!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/11/steve-jobs-live-from-wwdc -2007/
>
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