Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83886 is a reply to message #83869] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 17:57   |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
City.....
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>
> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
> >
> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
> > video
> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First,
it
> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
This
> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
some
> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
> > instead
> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
> >
> > "Images upon the screen
> > finish our imagining
> > first we watched the singers dance
> > now we watch the dancers sing"
> >
> >
>
> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading
up
> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots of
> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most often
> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown called
> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn, was
the
> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a bit.
> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
proficient
> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
gigs.
> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the
band
> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and only)
> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though the
> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just no
> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they got
> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were
> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all. When
> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started
and
> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris'
> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along the
> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album cuts,
> plus pretty much insured that a second album never happened...........but
he
> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he
could
> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had
been
> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and
> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had lots
of
> good songs in the can back then.
>
> ;o)
>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83887 is a reply to message #83886] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 18:33 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
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Senior Member |
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Yeah, that was a career-killer,wasn't it?
Multi-platinum first album, then go for the sappy movie theme
to score some easy bucks & BAM! yer back playin' dive bars
in Corpus Christi, baby lol
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
>City.....
>
>
>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>>
>> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
>> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>> >
>> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
>> > video
>> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First,
>it
>> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
>This
>> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
>some
>> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>> > instead
>> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>> >
>> > "Images upon the screen
>> > finish our imagining
>> > first we watched the singers dance
>> > now we watch the dancers sing"
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading
>up
>> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
of
>> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most often
>> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown called
>> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn, was
>the
>> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a
bit.
>> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
>proficient
>> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
>gigs.
>> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the
>band
>> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and only)
>> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though
the
>> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just
no
>> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they
got
>> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were
>> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all. When
>> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started
>and
>> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris'
>> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along
the
>> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
>> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album cuts,
>> plus pretty much insured that a second album never happened...........but
>he
>> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
>> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he
>could
>> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had
>been
>> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and
>> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had lots
>of
>> good songs in the can back then.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83888 is a reply to message #83865] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 18:30 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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1: Drum machines, (of any flavour)
2: Synth Strings.
That's about the time I got out of serious studio music recording, (mid
80's)
Some of the romance and fascination has returned, mainly due to the same
technology I guess, but you will never beat recording real
instruments...string, horns, woods etc.
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>
> I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
> video
> did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First, it
> placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song. This
> pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into some
> context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
> instead
> of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>
> "Images upon the screen
> finish our imagining
> first we watched the singers dance
> now we watch the dancers sing"
>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83891 is a reply to message #83870] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 19:36 |
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I was listening to the radio one day when a pretty big hit tune ame on by
a pretty famous female vocalist. I was driving my car and about every third
or fourth phrase I'd hear a note and think "I would have tuned that...".
It was "The Greatest Love" by Whitney Houston who is, IMHO, a great singer.
It made me realize how Autotune (and quantizing and all of our other little
studio tricks and tools) have changed the way we and everyone else hears
music these days. Music doesn't have to be perfectly in tune or in time
to be great. One of the important things that makes a Chicago blues shuffle
sound different from a New Orleans second line shuffle or a big band swing
shuffle is where the groove lays against "perfect" time. One of the most
important things about blues in general is the tension created by "blue"
notes.
Of course, we all know that. My big complaint about Autotune (and perhaps
quantizing and Beat Detective which, thank God, we don't have in Paris!!!)
is that now people expect to be able to march into the studio, deliver a
mediocre performance, and leave with a "perfect", radio ready, finished product.
I've had people tell me that if I can't tune them they'll go elsewhere to
work. And I'm talking about talented singers who are capable of getting
it right! So if I don't Autotune I don't work. I don't mind tuning a note
here and there to save a good singer from burning out during overdubs. I
don't mind tweaking a harmony to make a chord sound sweet. And being able
to make average music sound a lot better certainly brings me business. And
God knows, I need the business. But it get's tiresome sometimes.
Not to mention the repetitive motion stress related problems I have now because
I sit all day mousing and clicking to fix all this stuff!!! We're not recording
engineers anymore - We're data entry clerks!
Gantt
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>
>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>
>>2.) Quantizing
>
>If you had been working on the string arrangement I was fighting
>with over the past two weeks, you'd have BEGGED for the ability
>to quantize the backing track. I know I was.
>
>Neil
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83897 is a reply to message #83887] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 20:03 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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IMHO, the Christopher Cross phenomena was one of those deals where
songwriter meets the right producer. I had heard most of the songs on the
first album, but not *like that*. O'Martian's production brought that
material to life and made him a star. One of my clients here worked with him
many years ago when he was at the top of his game in the 80's and has told
some pretty great stories about how brilliant he thought OMartian
was/is.........not that he still might not be.....I just don't know. I don't
hear much on the radio these days that I think he would be a party to, but
maybe he is and I'm just not paying attention. I was glad to see Chris
Geppert and his band make it big. They were good and they worked hard for a
long time before they got their shot, though as usually happens, the band
got short shrift and faded back into the fabric of the working musicians
while the songwriter got the lions share of the recognition and $$$.
Hey.....he deserved it.........it's the biz and he wrote songs that
resonated with the times (especially with the right producer). Good for him.
;o)
..
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:463698fc$1@linux...
>
> Yeah, that was a career-killer,wasn't it?
>
> Multi-platinum first album, then go for the sappy movie theme
> to score some easy bucks & BAM! yer back playin' dive bars
> in Corpus Christi, baby lol
>
>
>
>
> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
>>City.....
>>
>>
>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>>>
>>> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
>>> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>>> >
>>> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
>>> > video
>>> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways.
>>> > First,
>>it
>>> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
>>This
>>> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
>>some
>>> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>>> > instead
>>> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>>> >
>>> > "Images upon the screen
>>> > finish our imagining
>>> > first we watched the singers dance
>>> > now we watch the dancers sing"
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading
>>up
>>> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
> of
>>> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
>>> often
>>> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
>>> called
>>> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn, was
>>the
>>> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a
> bit.
>>> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
>>proficient
>>> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
>>gigs.
>>> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the
>>band
>>> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and
>>> only)
>>> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though
> the
>>> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just
> no
>>> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they
> got
>>> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were
>>> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all. When
>>> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started
>>and
>>> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris'
>>> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along
> the
>>> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
>>> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album cuts,
>>> plus pretty much insured that a second album never
>>> happened...........but
>>he
>>> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
>>> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he
>>could
>>> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had
>>been
>>> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and
>>> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had lots
>>of
>>> good songs in the can back then.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83901 is a reply to message #83897] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 20:30 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
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You're right about that, prolly (good match between the artist
& producer), but another thing that I think contributed is that
I think that was really the "era of the soft singer".
Off the top of my head...
Boz Scaggs had a couple of non-"Lido Shuffle" sappy ballads that
hit in that era.
Steve Miller (who sang VERY soft for a rocker-ish kinda guy)
still was getting airplay.
Lionel Richie all over the place during that time.
Leo Sayer had his last hit or two around then.
Bob Welch - sappy Sentimental ballad & "Ebony Eyes" were around
then, IIRC.
Michael McFrickin'Donald singing on all the Doobie's mellow
stuff (apart from on everyone who could get him to do backups).
Rupert Holmes (no, mutherfucker I DON'T like Pina Coladas!!!).
Pre-Thriller M.J. ("Rock with You" that was pretty soft-sung).
Kenny Rogers' "Lady" was a hit the same year.
Robbie Dupree "Why don't we Steal Away... Steeeeal Aaaawaay...
into the night" (c'mon, I know you wanna sing a long".
George Benson - Gimme the Night.
Kool & the Gang - "You know yer Too Hot... too hot, Lady".
Geez, I think I could list another hundred... all these were
pretty soft-sung songs. Maybe I should rename it the "era of
the sensitive male" lol
Was Alan Alda making movies during that time? ROFL
Neil
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>IMHO, the Christopher Cross phenomena was one of those deals where
>songwriter meets the right producer. I had heard most of the songs on the
>first album, but not *like that*. O'Martian's production brought that
>material to life and made him a star. One of my clients here worked with
him
>many years ago when he was at the top of his game in the 80's and has told
>some pretty great stories about how brilliant he thought OMartian
>was/is.........not that he still might not be.....I just don't know. I don't
>hear much on the radio these days that I think he would be a party to, but
>maybe he is and I'm just not paying attention. I was glad to see Chris
>Geppert and his band make it big. They were good and they worked hard for
a
>long time before they got their shot, though as usually happens, the band
>got short shrift and faded back into the fabric of the working musicians
>while the songwriter got the lions share of the recognition and $$$.
>Hey.....he deserved it.........it's the biz and he wrote songs that
>resonated with the times (especially with the right producer). Good for
him.
>
>;o)
>.
>
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:463698fc$1@linux...
>>
>> Yeah, that was a career-killer,wasn't it?
>>
>> Multi-platinum first album, then go for the sappy movie theme
>> to score some easy bucks & BAM! yer back playin' dive bars
>> in Corpus Christi, baby lol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
>>>City.....
>>>
>>>
>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
>>>> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
>>>> > video
>>>> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways.
>>>> > First,
>>>it
>>>> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
>>>This
>>>> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
>>>some
>>>> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>>>> > instead
>>>> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>>>> >
>>>> > "Images upon the screen
>>>> > finish our imagining
>>>> > first we watched the singers dance
>>>> > now we watch the dancers sing"
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading
>>>up
>>>> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
>> of
>>>> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
>>>> often
>>>> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
>>>> called
>>>> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn,
was
>>>the
>>>> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys
a
>> bit.
>>>> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
>>>proficient
>>>> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
>>>gigs.
>>>> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the
>>>band
>>>> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and
>>>> only)
>>>> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though
>> the
>>>> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just
>> no
>>>> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they
>> got
>>>> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There
were
>>>> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all.
When
>>>> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started
>>>and
>>>> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris'
>>>> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along
>> the
>>>> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
>>>> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album cuts,
>>>> plus pretty much insured that a second album never
>>>> happened...........but
>>>he
>>>> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
>>>> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think
he
>>>could
>>>> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had
>>>been
>>>> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though)
and
>>>> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had
lots
>>>of
>>>> good songs in the can back then.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83903 is a reply to message #83897] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 20:48 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Deej, gimme a shout on my cell if you're still up.
AA
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:4636aed1@linux...
> IMHO, the Christopher Cross phenomena was one of those deals where
> songwriter meets the right producer. I had heard most of the songs on the
> first album, but not *like that*. O'Martian's production brought that
> material to life and made him a star. One of my clients here worked with
> him many years ago when he was at the top of his game in the 80's and has
> told some pretty great stories about how brilliant he thought OMartian
> was/is.........not that he still might not be.....I just don't know. I
> don't hear much on the radio these days that I think he would be a party
> to, but maybe he is and I'm just not paying attention. I was glad to see
> Chris Geppert and his band make it big. They were good and they worked
> hard for a long time before they got their shot, though as usually
> happens, the band got short shrift and faded back into the fabric of the
> working musicians while the songwriter got the lions share of the
> recognition and $$$. Hey.....he deserved it.........it's the biz and he
> wrote songs that resonated with the times (especially with the right
> producer). Good for him.
>
> ;o)
> .
>
> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:463698fc$1@linux...
>>
>> Yeah, that was a career-killer,wasn't it?
>>
>> Multi-platinum first album, then go for the sappy movie theme
>> to score some easy bucks & BAM! yer back playin' dive bars
>> in Corpus Christi, baby lol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>>Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
>>>City.....
>>>
>>>
>>>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>>>>
>>>> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
>>>> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
>>>> > video
>>>> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways.
>>>> > First,
>>>it
>>>> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
>>>This
>>>> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
>>>some
>>>> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>>>> > instead
>>>> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>>>> >
>>>> > "Images upon the screen
>>>> > finish our imagining
>>>> > first we watched the singers dance
>>>> > now we watch the dancers sing"
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was
>>>> heading
>>>up
>>>> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
>> of
>>>> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
>>>> often
>>>> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
>>>> called
>>>> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn, was
>>>the
>>>> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a
>> bit.
>>>> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
>>>proficient
>>>> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
>>>gigs.
>>>> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the
>>>band
>>>> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and
>>>> only)
>>>> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though
>> the
>>>> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just
>> no
>>>> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they
>> got
>>>> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There
>>>> were
>>>> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all.
>>>> When
>>>> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started
>>>and
>>>> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy.
>>>> Chris'
>>>> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along
>> the
>>>> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
>>>> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album
>>>> cuts,
>>>> plus pretty much insured that a second album never
>>>> happened...........but
>>>he
>>>> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
>>>> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he
>>>could
>>>> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had
>>>been
>>>> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though)
>>>> and
>>>> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had
>>>> lots
>>>of
>>>> good songs in the can back then.
>>>>
>>>> ;o)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83904 is a reply to message #83857] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 21:55 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Thad.. That's coming from a guy (Me) who is a master of Drum Machines
and beat boxes.. hey killed "living" breathing Music..
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>The 808 and MPC?!? You can't possibly be serious!
>
>TCB
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
>>like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal
performance..
>>
>>My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>>
>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>
>>>1. Autotune
>>>
>>>2. Quantizing
>>>
>>>Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Autotune
>>>>
>>>> 2. Autotune
>>>>
>>>> Gantt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations
of
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>> And
>>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>>But
>>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things
>on
>>>> everything.
>>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>>for
>>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>
>>>>>shouldn't
>>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>
>>>>>percussive
>>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of
ten
>>>> I
>>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>they
>>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>>
>>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going
to
>>
>>>>>make
>>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>>I
>>>> solemnly
>>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>>
>>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83908 is a reply to message #83878] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 06:09 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ha ha, yes, I'm a confused one, and almost always would like a little more
cowbell.
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>How about a a need more cowbell Zionist?
>
>
>
>TCB wrote:
>
>>
>> However, I the official tempo Nazi in the band. And the designated guitar
>> volume Nazi, anti-compression Nazi, less reverb Nazi, and a couple of
other
>> ones that don't come immediately to mind.
>>
>> TCB
>>
>> "Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>> OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Autotune
>>> Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>>> other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>>> passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>>> came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>>>
>>>> 2.) Quantizing
>>> If you had been working on the string arrangement I was fighting
>>> with over the past two weeks, you'd have BEGGED for the ability
>>> to quantize the backing track. I know I was.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>
>ADK Pro Audio
>(859) 635-5762
>www.adkproaudio.com
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com
|
|
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83909 is a reply to message #83904] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 07:16 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Live drummers playing to a click took care of that long before the 808 was
a gleam in Roland's eye.
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>Hey Thad.. That's coming from a guy (Me) who is a master of Drum Machines
>and beat boxes.. hey killed "living" breathing Music..
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>The 808 and MPC?!? You can't possibly be serious!
>>
>>TCB
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
>>>like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal
>performance..
>>>
>>>My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>>>
>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>>
>>>>1. Autotune
>>>>
>>>>2. Quantizing
>>>>
>>>>Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Autotune
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Autotune
>>>>>
>>>>> Gantt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations
>of
>>>
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>>> And
>>>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>>>But
>>>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things
>>on
>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>>>for
>>>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>
>>>>>>shouldn't
>>>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>
>>>>>>percussive
>>>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of
>ten
>>>>> I
>>>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>>they
>>>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going
>to
>>>
>>>>>>make
>>>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>>>I
>>>>> solemnly
>>>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83913 is a reply to message #83897] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 11:29 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Synchronicity - so today as I go out to lunch and stand in line to
order..... and I rarely go out to lunch - what song comes on the friggin'
restuarant radio???
When you get caught between..........
Holy Cow,
-Carl
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:4636aed1@linux...
> IMHO, the Christopher Cross phenomena was one of those deals where
> songwriter meets the right producer. I had heard most of the songs on the
> first album, but not *like that*. O'Martian's production brought that
> material to life and made him a star. One of my clients here worked with
him
> many years ago when he was at the top of his game in the 80's and has told
> some pretty great stories about how brilliant he thought OMartian
> was/is.........not that he still might not be.....I just don't know. I
don't
> hear much on the radio these days that I think he would be a party to, but
> maybe he is and I'm just not paying attention. I was glad to see Chris
> Geppert and his band make it big. They were good and they worked hard for
a
> long time before they got their shot, though as usually happens, the band
> got short shrift and faded back into the fabric of the working musicians
> while the songwriter got the lions share of the recognition and $$$.
> Hey.....he deserved it.........it's the biz and he wrote songs that
> resonated with the times (especially with the right producer). Good for
him.
>
> ;o)
> .
>
> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:463698fc$1@linux...
> >
> > Yeah, that was a career-killer,wasn't it?
> >
> > Multi-platinum first album, then go for the sappy movie theme
> > to score some easy bucks & BAM! yer back playin' dive bars
> > in Corpus Christi, baby lol
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >>Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
> >>City.....
> >>
> >>
> >>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
> >>>
> >>> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
> >>> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
> >>> >
> >>> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the
music
> >>> > video
> >>> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways.
> >>> > First,
> >>it
> >>> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
> >>This
> >>> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it
into
> >>some
> >>> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
> >>> > instead
> >>> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
> >>> >
> >>> > "Images upon the screen
> >>> > finish our imagining
> >>> > first we watched the singers dance
> >>> > now we watch the dancers sing"
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was
heading
> >>up
> >>> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
> > of
> >>> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
> >>> often
> >>> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
> >>> called
> >>> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn,
was
> >>the
> >>> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a
> > bit.
> >>> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
> >>proficient
> >>> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
> >>gigs.
> >>> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the
> >>band
> >>> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and
> >>> only)
> >>> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though
> > the
> >>> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was
just
> > no
> >>> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they
> > got
> >>> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There
were
> >>> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all.
When
> >>> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting
started
> >>and
> >>> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy.
Chris'
> >>> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along
> > the
> >>> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
> >>> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album
cuts,
> >>> plus pretty much insured that a second album never
> >>> happened...........but
> >>he
> >>> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
> >>> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he
> >>could
> >>> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had
> >>been
> >>> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though)
and
> >>> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had
lots
> >>of
> >>> good songs in the can back then.
> >>>
> >>> ;o)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
|
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83914 is a reply to message #83913] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 11:47 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
heheh!!!...........ooooooeeeeeeeoooooo
;o)
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote in message
news:463787f3$1@linux...
> Synchronicity - so today as I go out to lunch and stand in line to
> order..... and I rarely go out to lunch - what song comes on the friggin'
> restuarant radio???
>
> When you get caught between..........
>
> Holy Cow,
> -Carl
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:4636aed1@linux...
>> IMHO, the Christopher Cross phenomena was one of those deals where
>> songwriter meets the right producer. I had heard most of the songs on the
>> first album, but not *like that*. O'Martian's production brought that
>> material to life and made him a star. One of my clients here worked with
> him
>> many years ago when he was at the top of his game in the 80's and has
>> told
>> some pretty great stories about how brilliant he thought OMartian
>> was/is.........not that he still might not be.....I just don't know. I
> don't
>> hear much on the radio these days that I think he would be a party to,
>> but
>> maybe he is and I'm just not paying attention. I was glad to see Chris
>> Geppert and his band make it big. They were good and they worked hard for
> a
>> long time before they got their shot, though as usually happens, the band
>> got short shrift and faded back into the fabric of the working musicians
>> while the songwriter got the lions share of the recognition and $$$.
>> Hey.....he deserved it.........it's the biz and he wrote songs that
>> resonated with the times (especially with the right producer). Good for
> him.
>>
>> ;o)
>> .
>>
>> "Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:463698fc$1@linux...
>> >
>> > Yeah, that was a career-killer,wasn't it?
>> >
>> > Multi-platinum first album, then go for the sappy movie theme
>> > to score some easy bucks & BAM! yer back playin' dive bars
>> > in Corpus Christi, baby lol
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>> >>Are you serious DJ? When you get caught between the moon and New York
>> >>City.....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>> >>>
>> >>> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
>> >>> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the
> music
>> >>> > video
>> >>> > did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways.
>> >>> > First,
>> >>it
>> >>> > placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song.
>> >>This
>> >>> > pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it
> into
>> >>some
>> >>> > context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>> >>> > instead
>> >>> > of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > "Images upon the screen
>> >>> > finish our imagining
>> >>> > first we watched the singers dance
>> >>> > now we watch the dancers sing"
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was
> heading
>> >>up
>> >>> a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
>> > of
>> >>> proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
>> >>> often
>> >>> at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
>> >>> called
>> >>> Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn,
> was
>> >>the
>> >>> owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a
>> > bit.
>> >>> Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly
>> >>proficient
>> >>> guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club
>> >>gigs.
>> >>> He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and
>> >>> the
>> >>band
>> >>> was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and
>> >>> only)
>> >>> album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though
>> > the
>> >>> band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was
> just
>> > no
>> >>> match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album).
>> >>> they
>> > got
>> >>> major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There
> were
>> >>> lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all.
> When
>> >>> they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting
> started
>> >>and
>> >>> they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy.
> Chris'
>> >>> lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring
>> >>> along
>> > the
>> >>> studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
>> >>> audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album
> cuts,
>> >>> plus pretty much insured that a second album never
>> >>> happened...........but
>> >>he
>> >>> did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
>> >>> stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think
>> >>> he
>> >>could
>> >>> have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he
>> >>> had
>> >>been
>> >>> the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though)
> and
>> >>> fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had
> lots
>> >>of
>> >>> good songs in the can back then.
>> >>>
>> >>> ;o)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
|
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83915 is a reply to message #83910] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 11:52 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>I guess you're of the Eric Johnson school, then?
>
>I've done _way_ more than ten takes of guitar parts before getting the one
>I like. Usually I could comp a little but I still like the idea of playing
>it really right, and if that takes 20 takes or more then so be it.
It's not a rule or anything, I just have found that if I can't get it
in 10 takes, I usually will not get it in 95 either.
For me, if I am ready, it's take 2-4 that is the good one. I also
find that if I comp, it is never as alive as if it would be if my
playing was really together.
I remade an old song recently, and when I came to do the solo,
I knew it was not there. I finally got it technically right, and
then I went back and listened to the original. Oh hey.. the
ten-years-younger version of me just kicked-my-ass all over
the control room... Depressing.
There is an effortless strength and off-the-cuff sort of musicality
to REALLY being in good shape playing wise... You cannot get
that from comping. I remember making the original track...
Alone, in the control room, running multi-track reel-to-reel,
running the mixer, trying not to watch the counter and meters
while playing... I just turned around, looked at the wall, and
nailed it on take 2. Totally improvised and perfect.
I hated that young, arrogant weenie!!! How dare he play like
that?
Now everyone knows that most clients don't walk in that ready
to nail it, so I am not going to criticize anyone, but many clients
DO walk in expecting a world-beater of a recording.
The gap between those two truths is where we audio people
live isn't it?
DC
btw, I practiced that damn song for months, and can now play
it right again, and I learned a lot about staying in shape, both
musically and physically.
|
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83922 is a reply to message #83915] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 12:59 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
It's a tradeoff for sure. I've been appalled at how far my chops have gone
to hell. I've taken to playing arps and scales while watching the NBA playoffs
to get my fingers back working with each other. There isn't a lot to executing
power pop parts and solos correctly but I need to get my fingers in better
shape.
The best term I've ever come up with for what it's like to really have the
chops together (and this is me, not Joe Pass or Hendrix) is that 'the string
feels bigger.' Like I can feel more of it with my fingers and there's more
space between the frets and strings. I can feel the scrape on the fret when
I bend and hear that the vibrato is centered around the fundamental and so
on. Not there now.
Then again, ten years ago when I quit practicing every day it's because I
was sick of playing guitar and wanted to make a trip hop record. I didn't
know anything about editing or tracking or synths or mixing or compression
(beyond my MXR Dynacomp) and so forth. So I'd have missed out on a lot had
I decided the be all end all of my musical life was being able to sight read
Charlie Christian solos and improvise complex bass lines and chord shapes
around a melody.
TCB
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>I guess you're of the Eric Johnson school, then?
>>
>>I've done _way_ more than ten takes of guitar parts before getting the
one
>>I like. Usually I could comp a little but I still like the idea of playing
>>it really right, and if that takes 20 takes or more then so be it.
>
>
>It's not a rule or anything, I just have found that if I can't get it
>in 10 takes, I usually will not get it in 95 either.
>
>For me, if I am ready, it's take 2-4 that is the good one. I also
>find that if I comp, it is never as alive as if it would be if my
>playing was really together.
>
>I remade an old song recently, and when I came to do the solo,
>I knew it was not there. I finally got it technically right, and
>then I went back and listened to the original. Oh hey.. the
>ten-years-younger version of me just kicked-my-ass all over
>the control room... Depressing.
>
>There is an effortless strength and off-the-cuff sort of musicality
>to REALLY being in good shape playing wise... You cannot get
>that from comping. I remember making the original track...
>Alone, in the control room, running multi-track reel-to-reel,
>running the mixer, trying not to watch the counter and meters
>while playing... I just turned around, looked at the wall, and
>nailed it on take 2. Totally improvised and perfect.
>
>I hated that young, arrogant weenie!!! How dare he play like
>that?
>
>Now everyone knows that most clients don't walk in that ready
>to nail it, so I am not going to criticize anyone, but many clients
>DO walk in expecting a world-beater of a recording.
>
>The gap between those two truths is where we audio people
>live isn't it?
>
>DC
>
>btw, I practiced that damn song for months, and can now play
>it right again, and I learned a lot about staying in shape, both
>musically and physically.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83923 is a reply to message #83909] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 13:08 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
i Disagree my friend. A good drummer can "liven" up a click tracked song..
Just his/her nuances and playing in-between the clicks on-time, can humanize
a stale robotic track..
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>Live drummers playing to a click took care of that long before the 808 was
>a gleam in Roland's eye.
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Thad.. That's coming from a guy (Me) who is a master of Drum Machines
>>and beat boxes.. hey killed "living" breathing Music..
>>
>>
>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>The 808 and MPC?!? You can't possibly be serious!
>>>
>>>TCB
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
>>>>like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal
>>performance..
>>>>
>>>>My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>>>>
>>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>>>
>>>>>1. Autotune
>>>>>
>>>>>2. Quantizing
>>>>>
>>>>>Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Autotune
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Autotune
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gantt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations
>>of
>>>>
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>>>>But
>>>>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things
>>>on
>>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>>>>for
>>>>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>>
>>>>>>>shouldn't
>>>>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>
>>>>>>>percussive
>>>>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of
>>ten
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>>>they
>>>>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going
>>to
>>>>
>>>>>>>make
>>>>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>>>>I
>>>>>> solemnly
>>>>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83926 is a reply to message #83923] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 15:02 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
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I actually like machines sounding like machines (Kraftwerk, ENB, Sleng Teng
riddim) and humans sounding human (Stevie Wonder, Meters) but that 'I can
tell the drummer is playing to a click' sound is torture to me. Much harder
on my brain than the 'I can hear this was autotuned sound.' But groove matters
more to me than pitch, so there you go.
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>i Disagree my friend. A good drummer can "liven" up a click tracked song..
>Just his/her nuances and playing in-between the clicks on-time, can humanize
>a stale robotic track..
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>Live drummers playing to a click took care of that long before the 808
was
>>a gleam in Roland's eye.
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hey Thad.. That's coming from a guy (Me) who is a master of Drum Machines
>>>and beat boxes.. hey killed "living" breathing Music..
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>The 808 and MPC?!? You can't possibly be serious!
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
>>>>>like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal
>>>performance..
>>>>>
>>>>>My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>>>>>
>>>>>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. Autotune
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2. Quantizing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sarah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Autotune
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Autotune
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gantt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations
>>>of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>>>>>But
>>>>>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things
>>>>on
>>>>>>> everything.
>>>>>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too
fast
>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars,
which
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>shouldn't
>>>>>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and
the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>percussive
>>>>>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out
of
>>>ten
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and
then
>>>>>they
>>>>>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going
>>>to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>make
>>>>>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>>>>>I
>>>>>>> solemnly
>>>>>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83934 is a reply to message #83930] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 22:50 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
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|
I had/have Session8. It was more stable than PT, LOL.... I still have (and
occasionally fire up for giggles on an old PII400 Asus mobo) my AudioMedia
III card. I dunno if I agree it was the end of things as we know them. I did
local mastering (can you say sound forge II?) through that card and fixed
many a vocal comp through it to Adats. I think I paid like $1300 for it and
Sound Forge. Reeeal early adoptor, had to revision the card so it worked
with PT when that became available, LOL. It was really quite solid a rig,
and with a MQX-32 ISA card strapped on it time lock was tight tight tight. I
wanna say I started using it on a P 200 mmx?
AA
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46380e6f$1@linux...
>
> 1.) Steve Jobs
>
> 2.) Steve Jobs
>
> Here's why: 1.) Apple computers where the ones that a small
> company decided were the best platform for a product called
> Session8 - first marketed to radio stations for commercial
> production, mainly ("Come on, you can get rid of that Otari
> 5050!!!"), but eventually it caught on & became...... YOU GOT
> IT! Pro-Tools! Arguably the end of music as we knew it.
>
> 2) The iPod/iTunes combo... arguably the end of profitable music
> as we knew it.
>
> Discuss.
>
> (anyone but McCloskey may participate in this portion of
> thread LOL!)
>
> Neil
>
> BTW, just for laughs, here's a sales blurb from 1996:
> Digi's new Pro Tools Project is a digital audio workstation
> designed to provide Pro Tools functionality at a truly
> affordable price. The Pro Tools Project Core System includes
> Pro Tools 3.2 software bundled with the Session 8 Mac audio
> card (now renamed the Pro Tools Project Audio Card). Your I/O
> choices include the 882 I/O and 882 Studio I/O. Pro Tools
> Project is a complete digital workstation that provides eight
> tracks of recording, plus many sophisticated editing and mixing
> tools and will be available in early 1996 at the surprising
> list price of just $2495.
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83936 is a reply to message #83930] |
Tue, 01 May 2007 22:56 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Neil, you know I respect you a lot, but I have to disagree with you
regarding Session 8.
I had it on Windows, (I still have it taking up rack space in my studio, and
I think it was originally a PC product) in 1994, (I think).
I don't think a Mac version came out for quite some time after .
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46380e6f$1@linux...
>
> 1.) Steve Jobs
>
> 2.) Steve Jobs
>
> Here's why: 1.) Apple computers where the ones that a small
> company decided were the best platform for a product called
> Session8 - first marketed to radio stations for commercial
> production, mainly ("Come on, you can get rid of that Otari
> 5050!!!"), but eventually it caught on & became...... YOU GOT
> IT! Pro-Tools! Arguably the end of music as we knew it.
>
> 2) The iPod/iTunes combo... arguably the end of profitable music
> as we knew it.
>
> Discuss.
>
> (anyone but McCloskey may participate in this portion of
> thread LOL!)
>
> Neil
>
> BTW, just for laughs, here's a sales blurb from 1996:
> Digi's new Pro Tools Project is a digital audio workstation
> designed to provide Pro Tools functionality at a truly
> affordable price. The Pro Tools Project Core System includes
> Pro Tools 3.2 software bundled with the Session 8 Mac audio
> card (now renamed the Pro Tools Project Audio Card). Your I/O
> choices include the 882 I/O and 882 Studio I/O. Pro Tools
> Project is a complete digital workstation that provides eight
> tracks of recording, plus many sophisticated editing and mixing
> tools and will be available in early 1996 at the surprising
> list price of just $2495.
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83941 is a reply to message #83936] |
Wed, 02 May 2007 06:24 |
neil[1]
Messages: 164
Registered: October 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>Hey Neil, you know I respect you a lot, but I have to disagree with you
>regarding Session 8.
>I had it on Windows, (I still have it taking up rack space in my studio,
and
>I think it was originally a PC product) in 1994, (I think).
>I don't think a Mac version came out for quite some time after .
What? I thought that was always a Mac-first product! The sales
blurb I pasted in on my prior post was actually from '95, I
think, because it says that the new PT "project card"
(formerly Session8 ***Mac*** card) bundle would be out in
early '96, so are you sure you just didn't encounter it on PC
first? I could be wrong, tho.
Damn, and here I was thinking I could pin the whole mess of the
music business, from recording to retailing, on Steve Jobs.
:)
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #84015 is a reply to message #83941] |
Thu, 03 May 2007 18:44 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Pretty sure it was PC first, I remember when the Mac software come out , it
had some features that the PC version didn't have, like being able to
control the SMPTE Slave Driver.
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46389113$1@linux...
>
> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>Hey Neil, you know I respect you a lot, but I have to disagree with you
>
>>regarding Session 8.
>>I had it on Windows, (I still have it taking up rack space in my studio,
> and
>>I think it was originally a PC product) in 1994, (I think).
>>I don't think a Mac version came out for quite some time after .
>
> What? I thought that was always a Mac-first product! The sales
> blurb I pasted in on my prior post was actually from '95, I
> think, because it says that the new PT "project card"
> (formerly Session8 ***Mac*** card) bundle would be out in
> early '96, so are you sure you just didn't encounter it on PC
> first? I could be wrong, tho.
>
> Damn, and here I was thinking I could pin the whole mess of the
> music business, from recording to retailing, on Steve Jobs.
>
> :)
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #84021 is a reply to message #84015] |
Fri, 04 May 2007 04:11 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I got mine for PC at a cost of $3500 in 1994. Worked flawlessly. When I
ditched it in 1997, sold it for $200 and bought paris sight unseen, then
loaded up paris 1.0 I had one of the biggest sinking feelings of my life
:-)
Chuck
"Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>Pretty sure it was PC first, I remember when the Mac software come out ,
it
>had some features that the PC version didn't have, like being able to
>control the SMPTE Slave Driver.
>--
>Martin Harrington
>www.lendanear-sound.com
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:46389113$1@linux...
>>
>> "Martin Harrington" <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>Hey Neil, you know I respect you a lot, but I have to disagree with you
>>
>>>regarding Session 8.
>>>I had it on Windows, (I still have it taking up rack space in my studio,
>> and
>>>I think it was originally a PC product) in 1994, (I think).
>>>I don't think a Mac version came out for quite some time after .
>>
>> What? I thought that was always a Mac-first product! The sales
>> blurb I pasted in on my prior post was actually from '95, I
>> think, because it says that the new PT "project card"
>> (formerly Session8 ***Mac*** card) bundle would be out in
>> early '96, so are you sure you just didn't encounter it on PC
>> first? I could be wrong, tho.
>>
>> Damn, and here I was thinking I could pin the whole mess of the
>> music business, from recording to retailing, on Steve Jobs.
>>
>> :)
>
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| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #84025 is a reply to message #84021] |
Fri, 04 May 2007 11:50 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>I got mine for PC at a cost of $3500 in 1994. Worked flawlessly. When
I
>ditched it in 1997, sold it for $200 and bought paris sight unseen, then
>loaded up paris 1.0 I had one of the biggest sinking feelings of my life
>:-)
>
>Chuck
Yeah and THEN you started a Paris NG...
And that sinking feeling got much worse!
heh heh...
DC
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