Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Tower of Babel
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97200 is a reply to message #97198] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 08:58   |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
final destination.
On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>always transparent to us.
see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
because we think that's what god would do.
>
>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>free to make it up as we go along.
and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
it's who i am, the way i was made.
>
>DC
>
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>ideas men come up with.
>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97231 is a reply to message #97197] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 13:36 |
Stevehwan
Messages: 207
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for yourself.
You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing is
"babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the tower
seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't back
down from the Truth?
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>ideas men come up with.
>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>
>
>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97234 is a reply to message #97231] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 13:51 |
Stevehwan
Messages: 207
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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Oh, forgot one important thing.... It wasn't men who came up with the "bright
idea" to confuse the language, it was Gods.
BUT it was mans idea to attempt to build the tower and according to what
the Word is all about, they would have succeded if God hadn't interviened
with the language confusion.
"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>
>Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for yourself.
>You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing is
>"babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
>to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the tower
>seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't back
>down from the Truth?
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>ideas men come up with.
>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97235 is a reply to message #97231] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 12:39 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
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Senior Member |
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Steve, I don't think Rick gives a hoot about the story. He is talking
about his ideas on god man, trees and swingin' cats. You're prolly not
going to get any traction on that Babylonian story.
Steve Cox wrote:
> Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for yourself.
> You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
> and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
> read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing is
> "babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
> It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
> to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
> the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the tower
> seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
> established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
> handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't back
> down from the Truth?
>
> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>> ideas men come up with.
>> sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>> as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>> partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>> god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>> populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>> the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>> know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>> i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>> allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>> chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>> plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>> capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>> have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>> the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>> is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>
>>
>> On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97246 is a reply to message #97200] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 14:52 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
grin
No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
deathbed.
I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
of either possibility.
DC
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>final destination.
>
>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>always transparent to us.
>
>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>
>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>because we think that's what god would do.
>>
>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>free to make it up as we go along.
>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>
>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97248 is a reply to message #97235] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 13:41 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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thanks bill. people will believe what they CAN believe more than what
they're told to believe.. hell, i was raised catholic...school...the
hole shot and if that didn't work i guess nothing will. according to
all religious soothsayers "if you don't believe the way we/i do you
are going to hell" so i guess everyone is.
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:39:07 -0400, Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com>
wrote:
>Steve, I don't think Rick gives a hoot about the story. He is talking
>about his ideas on god man, trees and swingin' cats. You're prolly not
>going to get any traction on that Babylonian story.
>
>
>Steve Cox wrote:
>> Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for yourself.
>> You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>> and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>> read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing is
>> "babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>> It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
>> to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>> the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the tower
>> seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>> established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>> handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't back
>> down from the Truth?
>>
>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>> ideas men come up with.
>>> sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>> as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>> partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>> god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>> populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>> the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>> know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>> i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>> allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>> chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>> plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>> capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>> have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>> the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>> is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97251 is a reply to message #97234] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 13:45 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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man has always spoken in metaphoric, allegoric and or euphemistic
terms...except biblicly. ya know steve i don't profess to be right
because i just don't know but it seems there are a lot of people so
willing to tell me how wrong i am when they're no different than me.
On 22 Mar 2008 06:51:06 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
wrote:
>
>Oh, forgot one important thing.... It wasn't men who came up with the "bright
>idea" to confuse the language, it was Gods.
>BUT it was mans idea to attempt to build the tower and according to what
>the Word is all about, they would have succeded if God hadn't interviened
>with the language confusion.
>
>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for yourself.
>>You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>>and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>>read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing is
>>"babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>>It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
>>to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>>the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the tower
>>seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>>established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>>handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't back
>>down from the Truth?
>>
>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>
>>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97267 is a reply to message #97251] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 17:08 |
Stevehwan
Messages: 207
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
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You are right about that Rick. I ain't no different than you.
"willing to tell me how wrong i am when they're no different than me".
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>man has always spoken in metaphoric, allegoric and or euphemistic
>terms...except biblicly. ya know steve i don't profess to be right
>because i just don't know but it seems there are a lot of people so
>willing to tell me how wrong i am when they're no different than me.
>
>On 22 Mar 2008 06:51:06 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Oh, forgot one important thing.... It wasn't men who came up with the "bright
>>idea" to confuse the language, it was Gods.
>>BUT it was mans idea to attempt to build the tower and according to what
>>the Word is all about, they would have succeded if God hadn't interviened
>>with the language confusion.
>>
>>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for
yourself.
>>>You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>>>and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>>>read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing
is
>>>"babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>>>It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
>>>to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>>>the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the
tower
>>>seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>>>established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>>>handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't
back
>>>down from the Truth?
>>>
>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97269 is a reply to message #97246] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 16:03 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
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It seems we have a hell of a day here;-) Ohhh, it's seems it midnight here
right now, just passed to Saturday...
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:47e42015$1@linux...
>
> Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>
> grin
>
> No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
> believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
> an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
> deathbed.
>
> I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>
> The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
> question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
> back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>
> Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
> see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>
> None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
> of either possibility.
>
> DC
>
>
> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>final destination.
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>always transparent to us.
>>
>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>>
>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>
>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97270 is a reply to message #97248] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 17:22 |
Stevehwan
Messages: 207
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bill,
Traction? Don't have a clue what you are talking about and don't think you
do either. It looks like you jumped in about half way through the topic and
are responding to something you know nothing about. But that's ok. I wasn't
responding to you anyhow. I was responding to Rick's statement. ORIGINALLY
he clearly said the tower of babel was not about languages it was about gods.
As soon as you quit attacking me, I will drop the subject.
"Steve, I don't think Rick gives a hoot about the story. He is talking
>about his ideas on god man, trees and swingin' cats. You're prolly not
>going to get any traction on that Babylonian story".
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>thanks bill. people will believe what they CAN believe more than what
>they're told to believe.. hell, i was raised catholic...school...the
>hole shot and if that didn't work i guess nothing will. according to
>all religious soothsayers "if you don't believe the way we/i do you
>are going to hell" so i guess everyone is.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:39:07 -0400, Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Steve, I don't think Rick gives a hoot about the story. He is talking
>>about his ideas on god man, trees and swingin' cats. You're prolly not
>>going to get any traction on that Babylonian story.
>>
>>
>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>> Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for
yourself.
>>> You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>>> and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>>> read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing
is
>>> "babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>>> It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard
concept
>>> to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>>> the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the
tower
>>> seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>>> established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>>> handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't
back
>>> down from the Truth?
>>>
>>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>> ideas men come up with.
>>>> sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>> as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>> partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>> god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>> populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went
to
>>>> the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>> know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>> i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>> allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>> chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>> plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>> capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>> have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>> the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>> is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97272 is a reply to message #97267] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 16:19 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
that's just it. you are for you absolutely right in your beliefs for
you and i'm glad for it. do you for a moment think you are the first
or the 151st to tell me i'm wrong. i applaud you in your conviction
for your beliefs...they're just not mine. i meerly ask questions and
am not saying you are wrong because i can do no different. it is who
i am just as you as who you are and can be no other else. i don't
question gods word. i just question who it is trying to tell me what
gods word is...and yes my questions can be in error. but the final
question is...can i discern the difference? and i have always
said...i don't know. so my friend i will never tell you that you are
wrong but i will always ask what if. cuz that is who...what i am.
nothing more and certainly nothing less.
On 22 Mar 2008 10:08:10 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
wrote:
>
>You are right about that Rick. I ain't no different than you.
>
>"willing to tell me how wrong i am when they're no different than me".
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>man has always spoken in metaphoric, allegoric and or euphemistic
>>terms...except biblicly. ya know steve i don't profess to be right
>>because i just don't know but it seems there are a lot of people so
>>willing to tell me how wrong i am when they're no different than me.
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 06:51:06 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Oh, forgot one important thing.... It wasn't men who came up with the "bright
>>>idea" to confuse the language, it was Gods.
>>>BUT it was mans idea to attempt to build the tower and according to what
>>>the Word is all about, they would have succeded if God hadn't interviened
>>>with the language confusion.
>>>
>>>"Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for
>yourself.
>>>>You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>>>>and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>>>>read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing
>is
>>>>"babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>>>>It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard concept
>>>>to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>>>>the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the
>tower
>>>>seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>>>>established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>>>>handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't
>back
>>>>down from the Truth?
>>>>
>>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97277 is a reply to message #97246] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 16:44 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
because i do not prescribe to any particular religious bent does not
mean i am an athirst. i just choose not to follow organizations that
demand my money to be considered a faithful follower.
question 2...it truely (to me) depends on what you're (not you) trying
to sell. again, it's the way i was built. if something is thats good
as do unto others as... the no other explanation is necessary as that
is good enough for me. i don't need daily "miracles" to convince me.
what i do (as me) require is...here's life...you be the judge. the
virgin mary on a piece of toast ain't gonna so it. jesus on the side
of a building, ain't gonna do it. somebody selling me salvation for a
buck ain't gonna do it.
ya know jesus got really pissed at the money changers; if it were
today i'm sure all the tv geeks would have been included in that
tally. ad far back as i can remember the main point of the message
has always been money and it's no different today. salvation for a
buck...or whatever you can mortgage your house for. when jesus told
peter to build the church upon this rock he wasn't speaking of some
edifice that would take 100 years to build. he was talking about
faith and all that it entails both the good and the less than good.
all inclusive, not some exclusive club where only the self proclaimed
saved were welcomed.
but, being humans we feel compelled to make it after our own design.
something we can understand when truely we can't. we can site phrases
like "only god know" or "he works in mysterious way" or don't question
the ways of the lord' because we then don't have to (as god in his
devine wisdom) endowed us to...is to ask why.
what kind of parent wants his or her child never to ask a question.
to me, asking doesn't imply disrespect of what is. it says i've got
the brain you gave me so make me understand; i do. do unto
others...plain and simple. you do that and there is no need for
anything else.
bottom line...believe what you want and let me believe what i want as
neither is going to convince the other of thier righteousness and
quite frankly i'm very happy that you don't follow my beliefs.
peace and happy easter
On 22 Mar 2008 07:52:37 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>
>grin
>
>No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
>believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
>an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
>deathbed.
>
>I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>
>The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
>question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
>back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>
>Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
>see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>
>None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
>of either possibility.
>
>DC
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>final destination.
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>always transparent to us.
>>
>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>>
>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>
>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97284 is a reply to message #97270] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 17:07 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
no, what i said was that instead of assigning the parable to language
that the metaphor was relating to how we deal with different concepts
or constructs of god. bill got it right...and he wasn't attacking
you, he was i believe restating what i had said...and i wasn't
attacking you either...mearly making a questioning statement. like
myself, i'
m sure bill is comfortable with what you believe.
steve, enjoy and take comfort in your beliefs for you have the answers
you want. i on the other hand will most likely never experience that
as i'm not you...and will never be you...cuz that's the way god
designed me through billions of years of...next...
On 22 Mar 2008 10:22:14 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
wrote:
>
>Bill,
>Traction? Don't have a clue what you are talking about and don't think you
>do either. It looks like you jumped in about half way through the topic and
>are responding to something you know nothing about. But that's ok. I wasn't
>responding to you anyhow. I was responding to Rick's statement. ORIGINALLY
>he clearly said the tower of babel was not about languages it was about gods.
>As soon as you quit attacking me, I will drop the subject.
>
>
>
>"Steve, I don't think Rick gives a hoot about the story. He is talking
>>about his ideas on god man, trees and swingin' cats. You're prolly not
>>going to get any traction on that Babylonian story".
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>thanks bill. people will believe what they CAN believe more than what
>>they're told to believe.. hell, i was raised catholic...school...the
>>hole shot and if that didn't work i guess nothing will. according to
>>all religious soothsayers "if you don't believe the way we/i do you
>>are going to hell" so i guess everyone is.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:39:07 -0400, Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Steve, I don't think Rick gives a hoot about the story. He is talking
>>>about his ideas on god man, trees and swingin' cats. You're prolly not
>
>>>going to get any traction on that Babylonian story.
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve Cox wrote:
>>>> Rick, I HIGHLY reccomend you crack the book open and read the text for
>yourself.
>>>> You keep coming up with all these goofy things about a tree being a tree
>>>> and swinging a cat around... Man... that's all just foolishness. Please,
>>>> read it first-THEN bring on the comments. Right now all you are doing
>is
>>>> "babelling" about something you don't know anything about. Read the text....
>>>> It WAS all about all the Babylonians speaking Babalonian. Not a hard
>concept
>>>> to understand. God wanted to break their power of agreement so he confused
>>>> the language and no-one understood each other and the progress of the
>tower
>>>> seeced. Why are you fighting such a simple, well known, taught to millions,
>>>> established story? You are fortunate that there are (just assuming guys)a
>>>> handful of Believers on this Forum who (you may as well face it) won't
>back
>>>> down from the Truth?
>>>>
>>>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>> ideas men come up with.
>>>>> sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>> as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>> partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>> god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>> populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went
>to
>>>>> the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>> know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>> i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>> allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>> chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>> plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>> capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>> have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>> the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>> is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97286 is a reply to message #97246] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 17:26 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
i guess the other question is what religion declares a preteen girl
who gets impregnated by an infinitely old god by a surrogate angel and
pins the deed on a 30 something old carpenter as okey dokey and
savior of us all??? not wanting to be critical but...if it were today
people would be calling for the old eye for an eye thing and ignoring
the vengeance is mine sayeth the lord...finishing of the phrase thing.
On 22 Mar 2008 07:52:37 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>
>grin
>
>No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
>believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
>an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
>deathbed.
>
>I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>
>The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
>question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
>back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>
>Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
>see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>
>None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
>of either possibility.
>
>DC
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>final destination.
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>always transparent to us.
>>
>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>>
>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>
>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97290 is a reply to message #97286] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 18:57 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
What way would you suggest that the savior of humanity come to
earth, but as one of us? Maybe even a bit lower and more disreputable
than most, (after all, what a story huh?) Someone who lived a real life,
not a cartoon one, and died a real death for the highest cause of all.
And that is the question. What really happened? Answer that and
you may pop right out of the matrix...
DC
ps I hear his next visit is going to be much, much more impressive....
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i guess the other question is what religion declares a preteen girl
>who gets impregnated by an infinitely old god by a surrogate angel and
>pins the deed on a 30 something old carpenter as okey dokey and
>savior of us all??? not wanting to be critical but...if it were today
>people would be calling for the old eye for an eye thing and ignoring
>the vengeance is mine sayeth the lord...finishing of the phrase thing.
>
>On 22 Mar 2008 07:52:37 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>>
>>grin
>>
>>No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
>>believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
>>an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
>>deathbed.
>>
>>I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>>
>>The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
>>question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
>>back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>>
>>Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
>>see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>>
>>None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
>>of either possibility.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>>final destination.
>>>
>>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>>always transparent to us.
>>>
>>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>>>
>>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>>
>>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>>
>>>>DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went
to
>>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>>
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97292 is a reply to message #97277] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 19:29 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>because i do not prescribe to any particular religious bent does not
>mean i am an athirst. i just choose not to follow organizations that
>demand my money to be considered a faithful follower.
That is one of the signs of a good church and you are wise to
believe it. There should be no connection made between your
salvation and giving to support the org. If anyone makes that
connection, walk out the door. I would.
>question 2...it truely (to me) depends on what you're (not you) trying
>to sell. again, it's the way i was built. if something is thats good
>as do unto others as... the no other explanation is necessary as that
>is good enough for me. i don't need daily "miracles" to convince me.
>what i do (as me) require is...here's life...you be the judge. the
>virgin mary on a piece of toast ain't gonna so it. jesus on the side
>of a building, ain't gonna do it. somebody selling me salvation for a
>buck ain't gonna do it.
How about this one:
I'm 17 or so, and we are driving to NYC from CA to see relatives. I drive
because Dad is a terrible driver, and I can drive all night at that age.
We are in the midwest tooling along in the left lane of a divided freeway
doing about my usual 75 (everyone is asleep, right?) when a voice, as
clear and loud as can be goes CHANGE LANES NOW.
It didn't seem like a voice you questioned, so into the middle lane I went
and immediately some LUNATIC comes screaming around the bend
(the road curves left there) going *the wrong way* in the lane I had
just vacated, doing at least 90+ with no lights on! At that speed, headon,
there would have been nothing left but purple mush. I think I aged 5
years in 30 seconds right there...
Where'd the voice come from?
Here's a quickie: Know how many people beat hepatitus C?
No one. Except me.
I have the antibodies and none of the virus. Many tests. No one can
explain it. Guess there was something I was supposed to do.
Me talking to you is the result of miracles. No toast involved.
If one disallows all miracles, then they can make Jesus into
another teacher and go follow anything they want. If he raised dead
guys, it is a different situation.
>ya know jesus got really pissed at the money changers; if it were
>today i'm sure all the tv geeks would have been included in that
>tally.
I used to work for a teevee "ministry" and I can tell you it was worse
than you think. He'd kick their butts.
I think ole Billy Graham would pass muster though.
>when jesus told
>peter to build the church upon this rock he wasn't speaking of some
>edifice that would take 100 years to build. he was talking about
>faith and all that it entails both the good and the less than good.
>all inclusive, not some exclusive club where only the self proclaimed
>saved were welcomed.
Yes! The true church is invisible and does not have a headquarters!
you are so right.
>but, being humans we feel compelled to make it after our own design.
>something we can understand when truely we can't. we can site phrases
>like "only god know" or "he works in mysterious way" or don't question
>the ways of the lord' because we then don't have to (as god in his
>devine wisdom) endowed us to...is to ask why.
Well we should ask why, and we should challenge God at times, and
I have been very angry with God on occasion. It's OK, he can take it.
Still at the end of the day, we either trust or we do not. I can tell you
that trusting is better. Without a doubt.
>what kind of parent wants his or her child never to ask a question.
>to me, asking doesn't imply disrespect of what is. it says i've got
>the brain you gave me so make me understand; i do. do unto
>others...plain and simple. you do that and there is no need for
>anything else.
But we can't. We are all fallen and lost, and we need a savior. Which
explains why Jesus did what he did. Yes, sometimes atheists live more
moral lives than some Christians, but real Christians are still living
better lives than they would have without him. Going to heaven is
not a work/merit system, which is why my atheist uncle, friend to Madalyn
Murray O'Hare and hater of Christianity, could pray on his deathbed
and go to heaven, and I may not, having been a life-long Christian,
if I deny my Lord. It's not that I doubt my salvation, but I can be
total crap as a Christian sometimes and I have failed to stand up for
him out of fear of hostility and ridicule.
>bottom line...believe what you want and let me believe what i want as
>neither is going to convince the other of thier righteousness and
>quite frankly i'm very happy that you don't follow my beliefs.
I have no righteousness at all. Take care.
DC
|
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97293 is a reply to message #97286] |
Fri, 21 March 2008 20:16 |
Stevehwan
Messages: 207
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
You guys.... You have really good questions and concerns. They deserve accurate
and honest answers, but your not going to find them on the Paris Forum. Nothing
here but man's opinion. You need to read the answers for yourself from the
Word. Your life will only get better.
Dedric my friend I commend you for your courage man. NEVER back down.
Steve
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i guess the other question is what religion declares a preteen girl
>who gets impregnated by an infinitely old god by a surrogate angel and
>pins the deed on a 30 something old carpenter as okey dokey and
>savior of us all??? not wanting to be critical but...if it were today
>people would be calling for the old eye for an eye thing and ignoring
>the vengeance is mine sayeth the lord...finishing of the phrase thing.
>
>On 22 Mar 2008 07:52:37 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>>
>>grin
>>
>>No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
>>believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
>>an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
>>deathbed.
>>
>>I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>>
>>The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
>>question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
>>back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>>
>>Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
>>see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>>
>>None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
>>of either possibility.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>>final destination.
>>>
>>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>>always transparent to us.
>>>
>>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>>>
>>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>>
>>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>>
>>>>DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went
to
>>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>>
>>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97308 is a reply to message #97293] |
Sat, 22 March 2008 01:42 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
am i dedric? ;o)
On 22 Mar 2008 13:16:00 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
wrote:
>
>You guys.... You have really good questions and concerns. They deserve accurate
>and honest answers, but your not going to find them on the Paris Forum. Nothing
>here but man's opinion. You need to read the answers for yourself from the
>Word. Your life will only get better.
>Dedric my friend I commend you for your courage man. NEVER back down.
>Steve
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i guess the other question is what religion declares a preteen girl
>>who gets impregnated by an infinitely old god by a surrogate angel and
>>pins the deed on a 30 something old carpenter as okey dokey and
>>savior of us all??? not wanting to be critical but...if it were today
>>people would be calling for the old eye for an eye thing and ignoring
>>the vengeance is mine sayeth the lord...finishing of the phrase thing.
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 07:52:37 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>>>
>>>grin
>>>
>>>No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
>>>believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
>>>an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
>>>deathbed.
>>>
>>>I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>>>
>>>The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
>>>question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
>>>back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>>>
>>>Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
>>>see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>>>
>>>None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
>>>of either possibility.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>>>final destination.
>>>>
>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>>>always transparent to us.
>>>>
>>>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>
>>>>
>>>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>>>
>>>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>>>
>>>>>DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went
>to
>>>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97312 is a reply to message #97290] |
Sat, 22 March 2008 02:28 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 22 Mar 2008 11:57:21 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>What way would you suggest that the savior of humanity come to
>earth, but as one of us?
saving us from what...original sin? it was after all his failed plan
from the beginning. what did he expect from an imperfect creation.
why did he feel it necessary to kill his son to forgive us for
something he made us capable of doing?
Maybe even a bit lower and more disreputable
>than most, (after all, what a story huh?) Someone who lived a real life,
>
>not a cartoon one, and died a real death for the highest cause of all.
>
>And that is the question. What really happened? Answer that and
>you may pop right out of the matrix...
>
>DC
>
>ps I hear his next visit is going to be much, much more impressive....
>
>
>
>
>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>i guess the other question is what religion declares a preteen girl
>>who gets impregnated by an infinitely old god by a surrogate angel and
>>pins the deed on a 30 something old carpenter as okey dokey and
>>savior of us all??? not wanting to be critical but...if it were today
>>people would be calling for the old eye for an eye thing and ignoring
>>the vengeance is mine sayeth the lord...finishing of the phrase thing.
>>
>>On 22 Mar 2008 07:52:37 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Hell, I wouldn't even send Thad to hell!
>>>
>>>grin
>>>
>>>No one has any right to say any of those things. Personally, I
>>>believe I am in more danger of hell than someone who lives as
>>>an honest atheist all their lives and give Jesus a chance on their
>>>deathbed.
>>>
>>>I cannot pass judgment on anyone's eternal destiny.
>>>
>>>The question that concerns me this Easter is answering the
>>>question of what we would see if we could take a time machine
>>>back to Jesus tomb on early Sunday morning after his death.
>>>
>>>Would we see a bunch of guys stealing a body, or would we
>>>see a resurrected Lord and Saviour?
>>>
>>>None of us is wired so as to not understand the ramifications
>>>of either possibility.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
>>>>else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
>>>>capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
>>>>without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
>>>>equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
>>>>find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
>>>>become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
>>>>here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
>>>>honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
>>>>someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
>>>>final destination.
>>>>
>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>>>>always transparent to us.
>>>>
>>>>see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
>>>>we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
>>>>human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
>>>>things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
>>>>would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>
>>>>
>>>>would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
>>>>torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
>>>>you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
>>>>one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
>>>>between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
>>>>better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
>>>>than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
>>>>because we think that's what god would do.
>>>>>
>>>>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>>>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>>>>free to make it up as we go along.
>>>>and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
>>>>question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
>>>>it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>>>>
>>>>>DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went
>to
>>>>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97356 is a reply to message #97292] |
Sat, 22 March 2008 15:21 |
Bill L
Messages: 766
Registered: August 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Great stories! I'm curious because you did not specify how you knew it
was Jesus that did that stuff for you?
DC wrote:
> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> because i do not prescribe to any particular religious bent does not
>> mean i am an athirst. i just choose not to follow organizations that
>> demand my money to be considered a faithful follower.
>
> That is one of the signs of a good church and you are wise to
> believe it. There should be no connection made between your
> salvation and giving to support the org. If anyone makes that
> connection, walk out the door. I would.
>
>
>> question 2...it truely (to me) depends on what you're (not you) trying
>> to sell. again, it's the way i was built. if something is thats good
>> as do unto others as... the no other explanation is necessary as that
>> is good enough for me. i don't need daily "miracles" to convince me.
>> what i do (as me) require is...here's life...you be the judge. the
>> virgin mary on a piece of toast ain't gonna so it. jesus on the side
>> of a building, ain't gonna do it. somebody selling me salvation for a
>> buck ain't gonna do it.
>
>
> How about this one:
>
> I'm 17 or so, and we are driving to NYC from CA to see relatives. I drive
> because Dad is a terrible driver, and I can drive all night at that age.
> We are in the midwest tooling along in the left lane of a divided freeway
> doing about my usual 75 (everyone is asleep, right?) when a voice, as
> clear and loud as can be goes CHANGE LANES NOW.
>
> It didn't seem like a voice you questioned, so into the middle lane I went
> and immediately some LUNATIC comes screaming around the bend
> (the road curves left there) going *the wrong way* in the lane I had
> just vacated, doing at least 90+ with no lights on! At that speed, headon,
> there would have been nothing left but purple mush. I think I aged 5
> years in 30 seconds right there...
>
> Where'd the voice come from?
>
>
> Here's a quickie: Know how many people beat hepatitus C?
> No one. Except me.
> I have the antibodies and none of the virus. Many tests. No one can
> explain it. Guess there was something I was supposed to do.
>
> Me talking to you is the result of miracles. No toast involved.
>
> If one disallows all miracles, then they can make Jesus into
> another teacher and go follow anything they want. If he raised dead
> guys, it is a different situation.
>
>
>> ya know jesus got really pissed at the money changers; if it were
>> today i'm sure all the tv geeks would have been included in that
>> tally.
>
> I used to work for a teevee "ministry" and I can tell you it was worse
> than you think. He'd kick their butts.
>
> I think ole Billy Graham would pass muster though.
>
>> when jesus told
>> peter to build the church upon this rock he wasn't speaking of some
>> edifice that would take 100 years to build. he was talking about
>> faith and all that it entails both the good and the less than good.
>> all inclusive, not some exclusive club where only the self proclaimed
>> saved were welcomed.
>
> Yes! The true church is invisible and does not have a headquarters!
> you are so right.
>
>
>> but, being humans we feel compelled to make it after our own design.
>> something we can understand when truely we can't. we can site phrases
>> like "only god know" or "he works in mysterious way" or don't question
>> the ways of the lord' because we then don't have to (as god in his
>> devine wisdom) endowed us to...is to ask why.
>
> Well we should ask why, and we should challenge God at times, and
> I have been very angry with God on occasion. It's OK, he can take it.
> Still at the end of the day, we either trust or we do not. I can tell you
> that trusting is better. Without a doubt.
>
>
>> what kind of parent wants his or her child never to ask a question.
>> to me, asking doesn't imply disrespect of what is. it says i've got
>> the brain you gave me so make me understand; i do. do unto
>> others...plain and simple. you do that and there is no need for
>> anything else.
>
> But we can't. We are all fallen and lost, and we need a savior. Which
> explains why Jesus did what he did. Yes, sometimes atheists live more
> moral lives than some Christians, but real Christians are still living
> better lives than they would have without him. Going to heaven is
> not a work/merit system, which is why my atheist uncle, friend to Madalyn
> Murray O'Hare and hater of Christianity, could pray on his deathbed
> and go to heaven, and I may not, having been a life-long Christian,
> if I deny my Lord. It's not that I doubt my salvation, but I can be
> total crap as a Christian sometimes and I have failed to stand up for
> him out of fear of hostility and ridicule.
>
>
>> bottom line...believe what you want and let me believe what i want as
>> neither is going to convince the other of thier righteousness and
>> quite frankly i'm very happy that you don't follow my beliefs.
>
> I have no righteousness at all. Take care.
>
> DC
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97361 is a reply to message #97356] |
Sat, 22 March 2008 17:39 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
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The context of my life. Long story. Come on out, bring your
Chick Corea stories and some beer and we'll discuss it.
DC
Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>Great stories! I'm curious because you did not specify how you knew it
>was Jesus that did that stuff for you?
>
>DC wrote:
>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> because i do not prescribe to any particular religious bent does not
>>> mean i am an athirst. i just choose not to follow organizations that
>>> demand my money to be considered a faithful follower.
>>
>> That is one of the signs of a good church and you are wise to
>> believe it. There should be no connection made between your
>> salvation and giving to support the org. If anyone makes that
>> connection, walk out the door. I would.
>>
>>
>>> question 2...it truely (to me) depends on what you're (not you) trying
>>> to sell. again, it's the way i was built. if something is thats good
>>> as do unto others as... the no other explanation is necessary as that
>>> is good enough for me. i don't need daily "miracles" to convince me.
>>> what i do (as me) require is...here's life...you be the judge. the
>>> virgin mary on a piece of toast ain't gonna so it. jesus on the side
>>> of a building, ain't gonna do it. somebody selling me salvation for
a
>>> buck ain't gonna do it.
>>
>>
>> How about this one:
>>
>> I'm 17 or so, and we are driving to NYC from CA to see relatives. I drive
>> because Dad is a terrible driver, and I can drive all night at that age.
>> We are in the midwest tooling along in the left lane of a divided freeway
>> doing about my usual 75 (everyone is asleep, right?) when a voice, as
>> clear and loud as can be goes CHANGE LANES NOW.
>>
>> It didn't seem like a voice you questioned, so into the middle lane I
went
>> and immediately some LUNATIC comes screaming around the bend
>> (the road curves left there) going *the wrong way* in the lane I had
>> just vacated, doing at least 90+ with no lights on! At that speed, headon,
>> there would have been nothing left but purple mush. I think I aged 5
>> years in 30 seconds right there...
>>
>> Where'd the voice come from?
>>
>>
>> Here's a quickie: Know how many people beat hepatitus C?
>> No one. Except me.
>> I have the antibodies and none of the virus. Many tests. No one can
>> explain it. Guess there was something I was supposed to do.
>>
>> Me talking to you is the result of miracles. No toast involved.
>>
>> If one disallows all miracles, then they can make Jesus into
>> another teacher and go follow anything they want. If he raised dead
>> guys, it is a different situation.
>>
>>
>>> ya know jesus got really pissed at the money changers; if it were
>>> today i'm sure all the tv geeks would have been included in that
>>> tally.
>>
>> I used to work for a teevee "ministry" and I can tell you it was worse
>> than you think. He'd kick their butts.
>>
>> I think ole Billy Graham would pass muster though.
>>
>>> when jesus told
>>> peter to build the church upon this rock he wasn't speaking of some
>>> edifice that would take 100 years to build. he was talking about
>>> faith and all that it entails both the good and the less than good.
>>> all inclusive, not some exclusive club where only the self proclaimed
>>> saved were welcomed.
>>
>> Yes! The true church is invisible and does not have a headquarters!
>> you are so right.
>>
>>
>>> but, being humans we feel compelled to make it after our own design.
>>> something we can understand when truely we can't. we can site phrases
>>> like "only god know" or "he works in mysterious way" or don't question
>>> the ways of the lord' because we then don't have to (as god in his
>>> devine wisdom) endowed us to...is to ask why.
>>
>> Well we should ask why, and we should challenge God at times, and
>> I have been very angry with God on occasion. It's OK, he can take it.
>> Still at the end of the day, we either trust or we do not. I can tell
you
>> that trusting is better. Without a doubt.
>>
>>
>>> what kind of parent wants his or her child never to ask a question.
>>> to me, asking doesn't imply disrespect of what is. it says i've got
>>> the brain you gave me so make me understand; i do. do unto
>>> others...plain and simple. you do that and there is no need for
>>> anything else.
>>
>> But we can't. We are all fallen and lost, and we need a savior. Which
>> explains why Jesus did what he did. Yes, sometimes atheists live more
>> moral lives than some Christians, but real Christians are still living
>> better lives than they would have without him. Going to heaven is
>> not a work/merit system, which is why my atheist uncle, friend to Madalyn
>> Murray O'Hare and hater of Christianity, could pray on his deathbed
>> and go to heaven, and I may not, having been a life-long Christian,
>> if I deny my Lord. It's not that I doubt my salvation, but I can be
>> total crap as a Christian sometimes and I have failed to stand up for
>> him out of fear of hostility and ridicule.
>>
>>
>>> bottom line...believe what you want and let me believe what i want as
>>> neither is going to convince the other of thier righteousness and
>>> quite frankly i'm very happy that you don't follow my beliefs.
>>
>> I have no righteousness at all. Take care.
>>
>> DC
>>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97363 is a reply to message #97361] |
Sat, 22 March 2008 18:18 |
Stevehwan
Messages: 207
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Now there's somebody I can relate to!
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>The context of my life. Long story. Come on out, bring your
>Chick Corea stories and some beer and we'll discuss it.
>
>DC
>
>
>Bill L <bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
>>Great stories! I'm curious because you did not specify how you knew it
>>was Jesus that did that stuff for you?
>>
>>DC wrote:
>>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> because i do not prescribe to any particular religious bent does not
>>>> mean i am an athirst. i just choose not to follow organizations that
>>>> demand my money to be considered a faithful follower.
>>>
>>> That is one of the signs of a good church and you are wise to
>>> believe it. There should be no connection made between your
>>> salvation and giving to support the org. If anyone makes that
>>> connection, walk out the door. I would.
>>>
>>>
>>>> question 2...it truely (to me) depends on what you're (not you) trying
>>>> to sell. again, it's the way i was built. if something is thats good
>>>> as do unto others as... the no other explanation is necessary as that
>>>> is good enough for me. i don't need daily "miracles" to convince me.
>>>> what i do (as me) require is...here's life...you be the judge. the
>>>> virgin mary on a piece of toast ain't gonna so it. jesus on the side
>>>> of a building, ain't gonna do it. somebody selling me salvation for
>a
>>>> buck ain't gonna do it.
>>>
>>>
>>> How about this one:
>>>
>>> I'm 17 or so, and we are driving to NYC from CA to see relatives. I
drive
>>> because Dad is a terrible driver, and I can drive all night at that age.
>>> We are in the midwest tooling along in the left lane of a divided freeway
>>> doing about my usual 75 (everyone is asleep, right?) when a voice, as
>>> clear and loud as can be goes CHANGE LANES NOW.
>>>
>>> It didn't seem like a voice you questioned, so into the middle lane I
>went
>>> and immediately some LUNATIC comes screaming around the bend
>>> (the road curves left there) going *the wrong way* in the lane I had
>>> just vacated, doing at least 90+ with no lights on! At that speed,
headon,
>>> there would have been nothing left but purple mush. I think I aged 5
>>> years in 30 seconds right there...
>>>
>>> Where'd the voice come from?
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's a quickie: Know how many people beat hepatitus C?
>>> No one. Except me.
>>> I have the antibodies and none of the virus. Many tests. No one can
>>> explain it. Guess there was something I was supposed to do.
>>>
>>> Me talking to you is the result of miracles. No toast involved.
>>>
>>> If one disallows all miracles, then they can make Jesus into
>>> another teacher and go follow anything they want. If he raised dead
>>> guys, it is a different situation.
>>>
>>>
>>>> ya know jesus got really pissed at the money changers; if it were
>>>> today i'm sure all the tv geeks would have been included in that
>>>> tally.
>>>
>>> I used to work for a teevee "ministry" and I can tell you it was worse
>>> than you think. He'd kick their butts.
>>>
>>> I think ole Billy Graham would pass muster though.
>>>
>>>> when jesus told
>>>> peter to build the church upon this rock he wasn't speaking of some
>>>> edifice that would take 100 years to build. he was talking about
>>>> faith and all that it entails both the good and the less than good.
>>>> all inclusive, not some exclusive club where only the self proclaimed
>>>> saved were welcomed.
>>>
>>> Yes! The true church is invisible and does not have a headquarters!
>>> you are so right.
>>>
>>>
>>>> but, being humans we feel compelled to make it after our own design.
>>>> something we can understand when truely we can't. we can site phrases
>>>> like "only god know" or "he works in mysterious way" or don't question
>>>> the ways of the lord' because we then don't have to (as god in his
>>>> devine wisdom) endowed us to...is to ask why.
>>>
>>> Well we should ask why, and we should challenge God at times, and
>>> I have been very angry with God on occasion. It's OK, he can take it.
>>> Still at the end of the day, we either trust or we do not. I can tell
>you
>>> that trusting is better. Without a doubt.
>>>
>>>
>>>> what kind of parent wants his or her child never to ask a question.
>>>> to me, asking doesn't imply disrespect of what is. it says i've got
>>>> the brain you gave me so make me understand; i do. do unto
>>>> others...plain and simple. you do that and there is no need for
>>>> anything else.
>>>
>>> But we can't. We are all fallen and lost, and we need a savior. Which
>>> explains why Jesus did what he did. Yes, sometimes atheists live more
>>> moral lives than some Christians, but real Christians are still living
>>> better lives than they would have without him. Going to heaven is
>>> not a work/merit system, which is why my atheist uncle, friend to Madalyn
>>> Murray O'Hare and hater of Christianity, could pray on his deathbed
>>> and go to heaven, and I may not, having been a life-long Christian,
>>> if I deny my Lord. It's not that I doubt my salvation, but I can be
>>> total crap as a Christian sometimes and I have failed to stand up for
>>> him out of fear of hostility and ridicule.
>>>
>>>
>>>> bottom line...believe what you want and let me believe what i want as
>>>> neither is going to convince the other of thier righteousness and
>>>> quite frankly i'm very happy that you don't follow my beliefs.
>>>
>>> I have no righteousness at all. Take care.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>
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| Re: Tower of Babel [message #97505 is a reply to message #97200] |
Thu, 27 March 2008 23:06 |
Deej [5]
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
......cousin Rita?
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:efl7u3d919ujaqc05p0ep07d89jkv74hr5@4ax.com...
>i believe in do unto others as you would have them do unto you. what
> else can be said for human behavior. of course not everyone has that
> capability due to thier genetic wiring. just as some people can kill
> without remorse others cannot accept certain "truths"; it is that
> equal deserving of eternal hell according to some religious sects i
> find problematic. after all the vengeful god of the old testament
> become the god of love in the new and i'm not really feelin' the love
> here according to the words of some. (not spoken here but lets be
> honest out in the real world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit
> someone who is willing to tell you that hell, hades, sheol is your
> final destination.
>
> On 22 Mar 2008 02:42:44 +1000, "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Rick, there's some good insights here. How God works is not
>>always transparent to us.
>
> see, now that's where i think the problem lies. god should know that
> we're not going to get the message as he wants us to because we're
> human and will translate anything to our own advantage. of all the
> things to deserve eternal damnation for (if you believe in it) one
> would think that the inability to "get it" would not be one of them.
>
> would you as a parent condemn your child to a never ending life of
> torment simply because he or she couldn't understand the totality of
> you being "the creator (parent)" of them. you know, it can take only
> one gene to make someone either a murderer, saint and everything in
> between. so to me a loving, just and forgiving god would have a
> better plan then eternal suffering. we on the other hand are more
> than willing to threaten and enact all levels of retribution on others
> because we think that's what god would do.
>>
>>What concerns me is the reality of Jesus. From that issue flow all
>>others, and whether there is an objective truth here or we are
>>free to make it up as we go along.
> and whose to say where the "making up" began. it is in my nature to
> question what i see and hear and if i go to hell for it...then oh well
> it's who i am, the way i was made.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>
>>rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>again, i know the story is about language, confusion and other bright
>>>ideas men come up with.
>>>sorry, but i have a problem with "men" had one language thing. just
>>>as i have a problem with god being suprised that adam and eve would
>>>partake of the forbidden fruit when told no no no you don't. he's
>>>god...for his sakes... guess he also didn't think of incest when
>>>populating the earth from just one pair of peeps. i mean cain went to
>>>the land of nod and eventually married...who...i don't
>>>know...mom...sis...cousin rita???
>>>i believe god was smart enough to create the laws of physics that
>>>allow certain things to happen under certain conditions and lets the
>>>chips fall where they may. to me god doesn't kill 250 people on a
>>>plane and spare one as a lesson of his devine intervention
>>>capabilities. he doesn't kill half a town yet spares a church so they
>>>have somewhere to mourn the dead.
>>>the truely (again to me) sad thing about the differing concepts of god
>>>is how their used to validate the harm we do each other.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 22 Mar 2008 00:13:36 +1000, "Steve Cox" <stevec1@charter.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://ldolphin.org/babel.html
>>>
>
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