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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103698 is a reply to message #103697] |
Wed, 08 July 2009 20:33   |
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EDS "bus compression" by submix is pretty straightahead. This tip is courtesy of Dimitrios - correct me if I've got anything wrong, folks.
For the sake of this example, let's say you have drum tracks on channels one to ten in one of your submixes (although you can use this technique for as many of the submix's tracks as you like). Find an unused aux in the submix (let's say it's AUX 1). Name it "DRUM BUS" (or something similar).
Now, on each channel from 1-10:
- Set AUX 1 send "on"
- Set AUX 1 send to "pre-fader"
- mute each channel strip
All your drums should now be coming through the AUX 1 bus only, ready for stereo processing like compression. Latency between submixes is measurable in imperceptible fractions of a millisecond, so that's only a factor when considering phase; because all the drums are being sent to the same bus the phase relationships between them are maintained.
----
"Parallel bus compression" (feeding a "squashed" copy of the drums up underneath uncompressed drums to add body and impact without killing dynamics) is similar.
Follow the steps for bus compression, but set up *two* auxes instead of one (one for a "dry bus" and one for "squashed"). It's important to put the same compressor on *both* auxes. Open the compressor on the "dry" (unprocessed) drum bus and set the threshold to its highest (zero) and set the ratio to zero. The signal will now pass through the compressor *without* being affected. Close that compressor.
Now open the compressor on your "squashed" bus and go crazy - squash the drums hard. Blend the squashed signal up underneath the dry, to taste.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103702 is a reply to message #103700] |
Thu, 09 July 2009 08:34 |
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| Dimitrios wrote on Thu, 09 July 2009 06:10 | Hi,
AND
Every submix has a separate spdif out !!!
Yes if you have a mec connected to other than submix 1 (main) then the spdif outputs and inputs ONLY that specific out of the submix.
Now you can imagine some benefits...
Regards,
Dimitrios
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I did *not* know that! Man, I'm getting excited at that thought!
Dimitrios, I've been going through your contributions over the many years - your work on plugins and routing tricks has been nothing short of incredible.
One of my ambitions is to clean up some of those great ideas and turn them into their own Wiki mini-tutorials. You never need these tricks until you *really* need them - fast and fluidly - and I reckon step-by-step tutorials will help folks get over the hurdle of using them in practice.
I'm just now taking my first steps into screencasts (lots of free software out there now like Jing or CamStudio). I think they have the potential to show how easy these routing techniques actually are. I'll undoubtedly be asking your opinion about "most important tricks" for the Wiki.
Thanks for all you've done for PARIS over the years!
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
[Updated on: Thu, 09 July 2009 09:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103703 is a reply to message #103701] |
Thu, 09 July 2009 08:39 |
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| Ted Gerber wrote on Thu, 09 July 2009 06:20 | Yes good point, I'd forgotten that. Thanks Dimitrios and Kerry!
T
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Forgive my overly-detailed reply, by the way, Ted - I know you know this stuff, I'm writing with half an eye towards making a clear step-by-step tutorial for other folks encountering this technique for the first time.
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103708 is a reply to message #103707] |
Thu, 09 July 2009 10:55 |
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OK - Dimitrios, I'll get around to testing later myself, but - would this work?
Let's assume you have 2 EDS cards and 2 MECs. You have all of your drums on Submix 2. Everything else is on Submix 1. You still have two free channels on Mixer 1. So -
1) Take MEC 2 and physically cable its SP/DIF OUT to MEC 1's SP/DIF IN.
2) Prepare your drum bus "sends":
- open the patch bay and drag in the MEC MASTER-B and MIXER-B objects.
- cable the MIXER-B L and R outs to MEC MASTER-B's "dL" and "dR"connections, which send the submix to MEC B's digital outs.
- drag them back into the Object List (top R) to unclutter the workspace for the next operation.
[question - is that step even needed? or do they just show up already? do we need to break the audio connection to *subtract* Submix 2 from the global mix so the drums *just* show up in the two channel strips in Submix 1?]
3) Prepare your drum bus "receive":
- open the patch bay and drag in the MEC MASTER-A and MIXER-A objects.
- cable MEC MASTER-A's "dL" and "dR" to a pair of channels in MIXER-A.
- hit "M" to call up the mixer and turn on "Show Groupings" ("Settings" menu)
- assign those two channels to an unused group, linking their Faders, EQs and Auxes as "absolute" and their pan as "absolute" on one side and "inverse" on the other
4) Voila - your drums (or for that matter "background vocals", or "string section" or "horn section") are now on those two channels, ready to automate globally, put VST FX on, put EDS FX on, slap NoLimit across...
Am I misunderstanding something? It can't really be that simple, can it?
[additional question: would this work with ADAT modules?]
[edited to add further: each time we get a killer procedure like this, I want to workshop it here on the forums until there's no possibility of it being misunderstood, and then commit it to the Wiki - say, for folks who are in the middle of a mix and need a workaround and need a clear and definitive step-by-step. Or just for folks like myself that confuse easily  ]
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
[Updated on: Thu, 09 July 2009 14:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103713 is a reply to message #103703] |
Thu, 09 July 2009 16:55 |
Ted Gerber
Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009
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Senior Member |
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| kerryg wrote on Thu, 09 July 2009 08:39 | | Ted Gerber wrote on Thu, 09 July 2009 06:20 | Yes good point, I'd forgotten that. Thanks Dimitrios and Kerry!
T
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Forgive my overly-detailed reply, by the way, Ted - I know you know this stuff, I'm writing with half an eye towards making a clear step-by-step tutorial for other folks encountering this technique for the first time.
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Nothing to forgive my friend. Thanks for all the effort you make.
On another note, I have the feeling that a bunch of folks have slipped by the wayside since we've migrated to this new platform. AA, Jamie K. James McCl etc etc
Glad to see Louis and Dimitrios post, hope others find us hanging here too...
On yet another note - Kerry I'll be in Vancouver briefly the weekend of Aug 14, it's unlikely I'll be able to steal time (wedding Friday, off to the Island on Sun for a week then up into the mountains north of Kamloops for a few days) but if I can, I'd love to grab a beer or a coffee with you...
Ted
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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103720 is a reply to message #103694] |
Fri, 10 July 2009 02:11 |
damien
Messages: 36
Registered: October 2008
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I think the only way to avoid routing tracks in the output of a submix, while faders pushed is to :
- double all tracks (same audiofiles same console settings)
- groups absolute faders of each track and its "brother"
- phase reverse each doubled track
So you can keep your aux send post fader post pan, you keep the stereo and you still use faders for mixing.
Problem is : you are limited to 8 tracks, and maybe 7, if you want to route back your stereo aux in two tracks.
eeee, never tested, pure speculation.
EDIT :
OOOPS : Kerry already suggested this...
[Updated on: Fri, 10 July 2009 02:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Work around for plugins on submixes? [message #103725 is a reply to message #103720] |
Fri, 10 July 2009 14:46 |
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Maybe we should ask Mike Audet if there's a way to redirect the output of one of the submixes down at the PARIS Studio Control Library level. Have it come out... somewhere else...
Mike?
"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
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