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| PCI XP-32 expansion vs PCIe Win7-64 expansion [message #108976] |
Mon, 19 October 2015 13:18  |
Wayne
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Hi gang,
This is a bit long but encompasses several circumstances, all of which are good to know.
After several different setups, two months of shipping wait time and a month of troubleshooting, here are my findings using an ATX 4 card mobo expansion chassis with two (audio tweaked) XP-32bit PARIS systems and one Win7-64 PARIS-64bit/ProTools11-64bit/EZdrummer2-64bit/SonyVegasPro13 -64bit video computer.
Host cards
EX-1094 (PCI host) qty 2 both in use
EX-1095 (PCIe host) qty 2 one in use (one spare)
EX-1035 (mobo) qty 2 one in use expansion chassis (one spare) (EX-1035 is the mobo only, also needed is an ATX chassis and power supply
Setup: Interface:
Win7-64 studio #1 MEC (2 8-in, 1 8-out, word clock)
XP-32 bit studio #1 uses the same MEC as Win7 (shared MEC, only one PARIS system used at a time in studio #1)
XP-32 bit studio #2 MEC (identical to studio #1 except no word clock, internal sync)
ATX expansion chassis used in both studios - 3 EDS installed (keeping one EDS as spare)
Short history - I originally purchased two EX-1094s (PCI host), one EX-1095 (PCIe host) and one EX-1035 (mobo with 4 PCI slots) from SWD. The original package was delivered severely damaged with part loose in the box. I did a close visual and each component appeared OK. I installed the 1035 and couldn't get it to turn on so I emailed tech support at ExSys (they told me the 1035 and 1095 were probably defective). SWD sent me a new 1035 and 1095.
The new 1035 turned on until I installed it. What tha'? Mobo was installed in a former Compaq Presario ATX chassis. I changed the mobo installation screws (still metal) and it worked perfectly. The screw heads of the original mobo (removed from the Compaq mobo) might be in inches and slightly larger, and the ones that worked might be metric and have a smaller head size. (I'm speculating on this, but head size is critical so that it doesn't go outside the silver circle mounting area of the EX-1035 and short the board to the chassis). I examined the Compaq ATX case original mobo and the silver circles around the mounting holes are larger and these are the screws I originally used. I installed the 1st 1035 in the Compaq chassis with the different size head screws and it works perfectly too. Note: The EX-1035 mobo does not come with screws. Hope this helps future ATX expansion mobo installers.
Playback - I've got 60 channels of playback while recording 2 more (all 24bit) on XP (both comps) and Win7. My largest mix had 30 tracks. Submix A - 16 tracks and submix B - 14 tracks. I copied all 16 and 14 tracks into submix C and D respectively, and copied all the mixer channel settings. So two full 30 track mixes doubled up on 4 cards including some looped tracks. I record enabled 2 tracks on submix B and the whole mix plays while recording. I did not hear any delay per se, except the mix is thicker and loses some stereo separation which I think is the slight sample offset of submix A to B to C to D. Stereo drums, bass, backing vocals, etc on A, pasted to C and stereo keys, horns, guitars copied from B to D and to an untrained ear it sounded fine. I did this copy procedure purely to listen to the sample delay and to see if 4 EDS and everything would play and record at once. This is not how I normally work. I also cleared submix C and D and record enabled 16 tracks on C. 30 track playback with 16 recording (24bit). Both XP machines and my Win7 machine are all using the same ATX expansion chassis. One XP machine has HT on the other does not. No difference.
The host cards remain in each separate computer with the interconnecting cable attached. One 1094 in studio #1 XP, one 1094 in studio #2 XP, and one 1095 in the Win7 computer. I use the same 1035 ATX 4 EDS expansion chassis for all 3 computers. After setting up the 1st computer four Scherzo's, I moved to the next computer and setup the four Scherzo's and then to the next computer. You only need to do this scherzo installation setup once. Now I can now move the ATX 1035 chassis from rig to rig to rig and it works perfectly. It is important to have identical interfaces and setup the patch bay identical, then save as the default project on each computer. The only thing I do now from comp to comp to comp is change sync source (if needed) and record path and everything falls in place.
Important finding:
The XP machines will record and play nice using the expansion chassis with 4 EDS cards but only with EDS efx's in use. I put one instance of iZotope Ozone 4 (mastering plugin - on native insert) on track 1 (stereo split, trk 1 and 2) and PARIS locks up. I removed one EDS (now 3 card) - same problem. I removed another EDS (now 2 card) - same problem. I used to run 2 EDS internally on my XP machine with no problem, but now the native plugin will not work when using the 1035 ATX expansion chassis on XP.
However - wait for it - iZotope Ozone 4 (native plugin) works flawlessly on Win7-64 with the 1035 ATX expansion and 4 EDS installed. So my Win7-64 machine has become my mastering machine and the XP's are for tracking, editing and mixing.
That about covers my experience. The two problems I encountered - screw head size and native plug-ins on XP. Other than that, I now move from comp to comp to comp quickly and efficiently which was my main goal and to progress toward Win7 as the XPs slowly die.
Best to all,
Wayne Carson
Audio-Audition Digital Studios, Las Vegas
www.audio-audition.com
http://www.audio-audition.com
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| Re: PCI XP-32 expansion vs PCIe Win7-64 expansion [message #108984 is a reply to message #108976] |
Tue, 27 October 2015 07:08  |
mikeaudet
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
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Senior Member |
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Thanks so much for posting this Wayne!
Edit:
Kim, you're finding the manufacturer of the Virtua Via chassis was a huge contribution to our community. Thanks so much!
Wayne, thanks so much for trying this out, also a huge contribution to the community!
Could the plug-in issue happen on XP without the chassis, too? The chassis would add some small latency when communicating with the cards, but that shouldn't affect the VST subsystem. The VST stuff happens before the audio is sent to the cards (I think). I'll have to check if the VST system gets passed 3000 samples at a time. I think that's the PARIS appp's buffer size for voice events.
All the best,
Mike
[Updated on: Fri, 30 October 2015 08:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PCI XP-32 expansion vs PCIe Win7-64 expansion [message #108985 is a reply to message #108984] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 09:19 |
Kim W.
Messages: 189
Registered: January 2010
Location: Australia
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Senior Member |
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Hi Wayne.
Glad you have your monster rig sorted.
I was a little worried about you springing all that coin for the Exsys backplane and host cards, with no guarantee of success, but your patience seems to have paid off.
For anyone interested in following in your footsteps, (myself included...) below is my original post. (It looks as if all those links are still working) Whilst I am happy with my present setup of 4 EDS's on probably the last Gigabyte AMD motherboard with four PCI slots, a quad core Phenom II, running win7 64 bit, I think I will have to "future proof" myself by investing in one of those Exsys backplanes, and a PCI express host card.
Hi Wayne.
I did a bit of digging around, and it seems the Virtua Via kit consists of two components. A host card (with dvi cable) and the actual PCI expansion card. (Jump to the bottom of this convoluted post for info on a complete 4 pci box for around US$300 plus shipping).
I found another source for what appears to be the exact same components. Not cheap mind you, (they come from Germany as well), but it may be an alternative if you can't score a Magma.
The four pci slot board appears identical to the VirtuaVia one.
It is here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EXSYS-EX-1035-Expansion-Board-mit -4x-PCI-Slots-fur-ATX-Gehaus-/151432894350?pt=DE_Computer_So nstige&hash=item23421a978e
The host adaptor card and cable is below. It is PCI.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Exsys-EX-1094-PCI-zu-PCI-Adapter- fur-EX-1031-1032-1035-/161448414408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;a mp;hash=item2597134cc8
I guess my point is that these things are made in the same factory, probably in China, and available under different names. Curiously, there is also an expresscard host for the 2x PCI/2x PCI-E box, but I think that expansion board doesn't have a ATX connector for power, only an external 12 volt wall wart input. (Thus probably precluding it from EDS duties, as does the case... it's too small to house the EDS's). Whether hard wiring a beefier 12V supply would help??????
Anyway, just thought I'd post in case anyone wants to look into it further.
Kim
UPDATE: OK, I have found the PCI-E host card here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Exsys-EX-1095-PCI-Express-Adapter -Karte-fur-EX-1010-31-32-41-42-/151140655891?pt=DE_Computer_ Sonstige&hash=item2330af6313
...And the Expresscard host is available by itself here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Exsys-EX-1096-Notebook-ExpressCar d-Adapter-Karte-fur-EX-1031-32-35-41-42-45-/151438414279
Apparently all this stuff and more is available direct from distributor (and cheaper) here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1035.html
This looks neat! An all in one box big enough to house 4 EDS'S. (Have to get host card separately...about $US35, the Expresscard host is about the same). It has an inbuilt 220 watt P/S and fan.
http://swd.de/oxid/Manufacturer/Exsys-GmbH/Expansion-Box/EXS -EX-1031.html?listtype=search&searchparam=ex%201096
PCI host card here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1094.html?listtype=search&a mp;a mp;a mp;searchparam=ex%201094
PCI-E Host card here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1095.html?listtype=search&a mp;a mp;a mp;searchparam=ex-1095
Expresscard host here (with DVI style cable):
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1096.html?listtype=search&a mp;a mp;a mp;searchparam=ex%201096
and apparently another Expresscard host, but with a 2 metre HDMI cable to connect to expansion chassis here:
http://swd.de/oxid/Products-oxid/Hardware/Multiport-Solution s/passive-Multiport-Cards/EXS-EX-1097.html?listtype=search&a mp;a mp;a mp;searchparam=ex-1097
[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2015 09:57]
[Updated on: Wed, 28 October 2015 09:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PCI XP-32 expansion vs PCIe Win7-64 expansion [message #108986 is a reply to message #108984] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 13:30 |
Wayne
Messages: 206
Registered: July 2008
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Hi Mike and Kim,
1st - thanks Kim for steering me to SWD company for the 1094 PCI host card since VirtuaVia did not carry it at the time I ordered. VirtuaVia only carried the 1035 and PCIe 1095 host. Without that info . . . none of this would have happened.
Mike - the iZotope Ozone 4 mastering plug is a resource hog. I did not try a mono instance of it. I just put it on track one with stereo plug check and it automatically adds the right channel. So I've only used it as a stereo plug-in for mastering 2 tracks.
Inside the plugin it runs - a 10 point graphical EQ, multiband compression, multiband exciter, multiband stereo spread, global reverb and global loudness maximizer all at once.
When it worked (2 EDS installed internally) there wa a good 1/4 - 1/2 second delay from active to bypass on my XP. I have not notice it on my Win7-64 but I think there still is some.
All the plugin components did work when I had 2 EDS installed internally on the XP. With the expansion chassis, the moment I hit play it chokes and requires a quit and Paris relaunch. A couple of times it required a comp restart.
I did not test this plugin with 1 card on the expansion chassis. I didn't see use in doing this.
As one final note: I think I may have also ran 3 EDS internally and the mastering plug still worked but the system felt unstable so I backed down to 2 EDS. Could have been for multiple reasons. Heat, max'd out computer and motherboard and PS and 2 DVD drives.
Wayne
[Updated on: Wed, 28 October 2015 13:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: PCI XP-32 expansion vs PCIe Win7-64 expansion [message #108987 is a reply to message #108986] |
Wed, 28 October 2015 13:36 |
mikeaudet
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
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Senior Member |
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Hi Wayne and Kim!
Correction: Thank you so much Kim for finding this stuff out. That was a huge service to the community!
And, thank you Wayne for buying it an confirming that it works with PARIS. That is a huge contribution to the community, too.
Sorry for my mis-remebering, Kim!
All the best, guys!
Mike
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