Home » The Bin » Lester The Nightfly » I hate winter...
I just this liberal would get a clue...... [message #95292 is a reply to message #95246] |
Thu, 31 January 2008 15:26 |
Deej [5]
Messages: 373 Registered: March 2008
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Senior Member |
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http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/reviewofbooks_p rintable/4357/
;o)
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47a0168b@linux...
> chuck duffy wrote:
>> So does this evidence mean that .........
>
> ....global dimming and greenhouse gas induced warming are two different
> processes that for a time overlapped. Global dimming is not going to
> magically save us from the current warming trend. We're on the right track
> with worldwide plans to slow our contribution of greenhouse gases ASAP.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>> Chuck
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>> rick wrote:
>>>> this is a mac vs pc thing in disguise isn't it? ;o) thank god for
>>>> global dimming...
>>> Heh. Mac vs. PC is more benign.
>>>
>>> Here's a paper on the relationship between global dimming and greenhouse
>>
>>> warming: http://www.iac.ethz.ch/people/wild/2006GL028031.pdf
>>>
>>> From the summary:
>>> "In the present study we investigated the role of solar dimming and
>>> brightening in the context of recent global warming. Our analysis showed
>>
>>> that the decadal changes of land mean surface temperature as well as
>>> TMAX, TMIN, and DTR are in line with the proposed transition in surface
>>> solar radiation from dimming to brightening during the 1980s and with
>>> the increasing greenhouse effect. This suggests that solar dimming,
>>> possibly favoured by increasing air pollution, was effective in masking
>>
>>> greenhouse warming up to the 1980s, but not thereafter, when the dimming
>>
>>> disappeared and atmospheres started to clear up.
>>>
>>> The temperature response since the mid-1980s may therefore be a more
>>> genuine reflection of the greenhouse effect than during the decades
>>> before, which were subject to solar dimming. Unlike to the decades prior
>>
>>> to the 1980s, the recent rapid temperature rise therefore no longer
>>> underrates the response of the climate system to greenhouse forcing and
>>
>>> reflects the full magnitude of the greenhouse effect."
>>>
>>> More discussion here:
>>> http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/11/global -dimming-and-global-warming/
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Jamie
>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:51:55 -0700, Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> James McCloskey wrote:
>>>>>> Yep, those scientist don't know what they are talking about,
>>>>> If you're looking for the opinion of scientists, here's a start:
>>>>>
>>>>> From the American Physical Society
>>>>> http://www.aps.org/policy/statements/07_1.cfm
>>>>> "Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the
>>
>>>>> atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases
>>
>>>>> include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other
>>>>> gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of
>>>>> industrial and agricultural processes.
>>>>>
>>>>> The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no
>>
>>>>> mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s
>>
>>>>> physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human
>>>>> health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse
>>>>> gases
>>
>>>>> beginning now."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From the National Academy of Sciences
>>>>> http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf
>>>>> "Climate change is real:
>>>>> There will always be uncertainty in understanding a system as complex
>> as
>>>>> the world’s climate. However there is now strong evidence that
>>>>> significant global warming is occurring1. The evidence comes from
>>>>> direct
>>
>>>>> measurements of rising surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean
>>
>>>>> temperatures and from phenomena such as increases in average global
>>>>> sea
>>
>>>>> levels, retreating glaciers, and changes to many physical and
>>>>> biological
>>
>>>>> systems. It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can
>> be
>>>>> attributed to human activities (IPCC 2001)2. This warming has already
>>
>>>>> led to changes in the Earth's climate.
>>>>>
>>>>> The existence of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is vital to life
>> on
>>>>> Earth – in their absence average temperatures would be about 30
>>>>> centigrade degrees lower than they are today. But human activities are
>>
>>>>> now causing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases – including
>>
>>>>> carbon dioxide, methane, tropospheric ozone, and nitrous oxide – to
>>>>> rise
>>
>>>>> well above pre-industrial levels. Carbon dioxide levels have increased
>>
>>>> >from 280 ppm in 1750 to over 375 ppm today – higher than any previous
>>
>>>>> levels that can be reliably measured (i.e. in the last 420,000 years).
>>
>>>>> Increasing greenhouse gases are causing
>>>>> temperatures to rise; the Earth’s surface warmed by approximately 0.6
>>
>>>>> centigrade degrees over the twentieth century. The Intergovernmental
>>
>>>>> Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projected that the average global
>>>>> surface
>>
>>>>> temperatures will continue to increase to between 1.4 centigrade
>>>>> degrees
>>
>>>>> and 5.8 centigrade degrees above 1990 levels, by 2100."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From the American Geophysical Union
>>>>> http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/positions/climate_change20 08.shtml
>>>>> "Human Impacts on Climate:
>>>>> The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many
>>
>>>>> components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the
>>>>> atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain
>>>>> glaciers,
>>
>>>>> the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of
>>>>> seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural
>>
>>>>> and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of
>>>>> greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the
>>
>>>>> 20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average
>>
>>>>> by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the
>>>>> previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The
>>>>> observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and
>>
>>>>> lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century.
>>>>> Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows
>>
>>>>> warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many
>>>>> physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate
>>
>>>>> change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and
>>>>> summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on
>>
>>>>> Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of
>> the
>>>>> climate.
>>>>>
>>>>> During recent millennia of relatively stable climate, civilization
>>>>> became established and populations have grown rapidly. In the next 50
>>
>>>>> years, even the lower limit of impending climate change—an additional
>>
>>>>> global mean warming of 1°C above the last decade—is far beyond the
>>>>> range
>>
>>>>> of climate variability experienced during the past thousand years and
>>
>>>>> poses global problems in planning for and adapting to it. Warming
>>>>> greater than 2°C above 19th century levels is projected to be
>>>>> disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing
>>>>> widespread loss of biodiversity, and—if sustained over
>>>>> centuries—melting
>>
>>>>> much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea level of
>>>>> several meters. If this 2°C warming is to be avoided, then our net
>>>>> annual emissions of CO2 must be reduced by more than 50 percent within
>>
>>>>> this century. With such projections, there are many sources of
>>>>> scientific uncertainty, but none are known that could make the impact
>> of
>>>>> climate change inconsequential. Given the uncertainty in climate
>>>>> projections, there can be surprises that may cause more dramatic
>>>>> disruptions than anticipated from the most probable model projections.
>>>>>
>>>>> With climate change, as with ozone depletion, the human footprint on
>>
>>>>> Earth is apparent. The cause of disruptive climate change, unlike
>>>>> ozone
>>
>>>>> depletion, is tied to energy use and runs through modern society.
>>>>> Solutions will necessarily involve all aspects of society. Mitigation
>>
>>>>> strategies and adaptation responses will call for collaborations
>>>>> across
>>
>>>>> science, technology, industry, and government. Members of the AGU, as
>>
>>>>> part of the scientific community, collectively have special
>>>>> responsibilities: to pursue research needed to understand it; to
>>>>> educate
>>
>>>>> the public on the causes, risks, and hazards; and to communicate
>>>>> clearly
>>
>>>>> and objectively with those who can implement policies to shape future
>>
>>>>> climate."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From The Geological Society of America
>>>>> http://www.geosociety.org/positions/position10.htm
>>>>> "The Geological Society of America (GSA) supports the scientific
>>>>> conclusions that Earth’s climate is changing; the climate changes are
>>
>>>>> due in part to human activities; and the probable consequences of the
>>
>>>>> climate changes will be significant and blind to geopolitical
>>>>> boundaries. Furthermore, the potential implications of global climate
>>
>>>>> change and the time scale over which such changes will likely occur
>>>>> require active, effective, long-term planning. GSA also supports
>>>>> statements on the global climate change issue made by the joint
>>>>> national
>>
>>>>> academies of science (June 2005), American Geophysical Union
>>>>> (December,
>>
>>>>> 2003), and American Chemical Society (2004). GSA strongly encourages
>>
>>>>> that the following efforts be undertaken internationally: (1)
>>>>> adequately
>>
>>>>> research climate change at all time scales, (2) develop thoughtful,
>>>>> science-based policy appropriate for the multifaceted issues of global
>>
>>>>> climate change, (3) organize global planning to recognize, prepare
>>>>> for,
>>
>>>>> and adapt to the causes and consequences of global climate change, and
>>
>>>>> (4) organize and develop comprehensive, long-term strategies for
>>>>> sustainable energy, particularly focused on minimizing impacts on
>>>>> global
>>
>>>>> climate."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From the American Meteorological Society
>>>>> http://www.ametsoc.org/POLICY/2007climatechange.html
>>>>> "Why is climate changing?
>>>>> Climate has changed throughout geological history, for many natural
>>>>> reasons such as changes in the sun’s energy received by Earth arising
>>
>>>> >from slow orbital changes, or changes in the sun’s energy reaching
>>>> >Earth’s surface due to volcanic eruptions. In recent decades, humans
>>
>>>>> have increasingly affected local, regional, and global climate by
>>>>> altering the flows of radiative energy and water through the Earth
>>>>> system (resulting in changes in temperature, winds, rainfall, etc.),
>>
>>>>> which comprises the atmosphere, land surface, vegetation, ocean, land
>>
>>>>> ice, and sea ice. Indeed, strong observational evidence and results
>>>>> from
>>
>>>>> modeling studies indicate that, at least over the last 50 years, human
>>
>>>>> activities are a major contributor to climate change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Direct human impact is through changes in the concentration of certain
>>
>>>>> trace gases such as carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, methane,
>>>>> nitrous oxide, ozone, and water vapor, known collectively as
>>>>> greenhouse
>>
>>>>> gases. Enhanced greenhouse gases have little effect on the incoming
>>>>> energy of the sun, but they act as a blanket to reduce the outgoing
>>>>> infrared radiation emitted by Earth and its atmosphere; the surface
>>>>> and
>>
>>>>> atmosphere therefore warm so as to increase the outgoing energy until
>>
>>>>> the outgoing and incoming flows of energy are equal. Carbon dioxide
>>>>> accounts for about half of the human-induced greenhouse gas
>>>>> contribution
>>
>>>>> to warming since the late 1800s, with increases in the other
>>>>> greenhouse
>>
>>>>> gases accounting for the rest; changes in solar output may have
>>>>> provided
>>
>>>>> an augmentation to warming in the first half of the 20th century.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carbon dioxide concentration is rising mostly as a result of
>>>>> fossil-fuel
>>
>>>>> burning and partly from clearing of vegetation; about 50% of the
>>>>> enhanced emissions remain in the atmosphere, while the rest of the
>>>>> Earth
>>
>>>>> system continues to absorb the remaining 50%. In the last 50 years
>>>>> atmospheric CO2 concentration has been increasing at a rate much
>>>>> faster
>>
>>>>> than any rates observed in the geological record of the past several
>>
>>>>> thousand years. Global annual-mean surface temperatures are rising at
>> a
>>>>> rapid rate to values higher than at any time in the last 400 (and
>>>>> probably in the last 1000) years. Once introduced in the atmosphere,
>>
>>>>> carbon dioxide remains for at least a few hundred years and implies a
>>
>>>>> lengthy guarantee of sustained future warming. Further, increases in
>>
>>>>> greenhouse gases are nearly certain to produce continued increases in
>>
>>>>> temperature. Such changes in temperature lead to changes in clouds,
>>>>> pressure, winds, and rainfall in a complex sequence of further
>>>>> effects."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Al Gore does,
>>>>>> after all he invented the internet.
>>>>> Here's what snopes has to say about that:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
>>>>> "Despite the derisive references that continue even today, Al Gore did
>>
>>>>> not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that
>>>>> could
>>
>>>>> reasonably be interpreted that way. The "Al Gore said he 'invented'
>>>>> the
>>
>>>>> Internet" put-downs were misleading, out-of-context distortions of
>>>>> something he said during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late
>>
>>>>> Edition" program on 9 March 1999."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, Al Gore is not the point, he's just one guy. Love him or hate
>>
>>>>> him, the climate will do what it does with or without him. It's best
>> to
>>>>> look to the actual science.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing like trying to shift the wealth
>>>>>> of the world and making money doing it by selling global offsets and
>> taxing
>>>>>> the shit out of stupid people with a lie!
>>>>> That the climate is currently changing is not a lie, it's a measurable
>>
>>>>> phenomenon we are currently experiencing on our planet.
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of evidence points to human contributions to the current climate
>>
>>>>> change event. So again, this is not a lie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your problem is with politics and economics, not with science. Blaming
>>
>>>>> the science does not help your cause. You have political and economic
>>
>>>>> objections to some of the proposed solutions, so by all means take
>>>>> them
>>
>>>>> on. If you don't like using a market mechanism to regulate carbon
>>>>> emissions, which is just one idea that's been proposed, there are
>>>>> other
>>
>>>>> options on the table.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do your best to move the solutions conversation in a direction you're
>>
>>>>> more comfortable with. But simple blanket denial of actual evidence
>>>>> and
>>
>>>>> peer reviewed science won't get you there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Bush's, the Clinton's, and
>>>>>> the Gore's are all Trilateralists, they have done a fine job of
>>>>>> lowering
>>>>>> the standard of living here in the USA! Long live the CFR, the world
>> banks
>>>>>> and man made Global warming.
>>>>> You can believe what you like about all that, except that there is
>>>>> actual evidence supporting human contributions to the current climate
>>
>>>>> change event. Again, ignoring evidence won't get you very far.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, if you buy the man made global warming lie, I got some
>>>>>> swamp
>>>>>> land I'd like to sell you!
>>>>> You're being sold swamp land already, possibly by the fossil fuels
>>>>> industry, and by people who want to maintain power and income.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/denialmachine/index.html
>>>>> "The Denial Machine investigates the roots of the campaign to negate
>> the
>>>>> science and the threat of global warming. It tracks the activities of
>> a
>>>>> group of scientists, some of whom previously consulted for Big
>>>>> Tobacco,
>>
>>>>> and who are now receiving donations from major coal and oil
>>>>> companies."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.exxonsecrets.org/
>>>>> "The database compiles Exxon Foundation and corporate funding to a
>>>>> series of institutions who have worked to undermine solutions to
>>>>> global
>>
>>>>> warming and climate change. It details the working relationships of
>>>>> individuals associated with these organizations and their global
>>>>> warming
>>
>>>>> quotes and deeds."
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour
>>>>>>>> check
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>>>>> Yep, the swindle movie is old news, we even discussed it here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I mentioned at the time, it ignores the main body of
>>>>>>> peer-reviewed
>>
>>>>>>> scientific evidence for the sake of sensationalism. It was done that
>> way
>>>>>>> deliberately by the producers, with no attempt at an objective look
>> at
>>>>>>> the actual scientific evidence. Fair and balanced it ain't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do like the breathless announcer, fast cuts and dramatic music.
>>>>>>> It's
>>
>>>>>>> always fun to see a one-sided polemic that ironically accuses others
>> of
>>>>>>> being one-sided. I doubt anyone here is gullible enough to take it
>> as an
>>>>>>> objective authority.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But anyway, here's more (follow the links):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>>> http://climatedenial.org/2007/05/01/why-was-the-great-global -warming-swindle-so-persuasive/
>>>>>>> "The fans of the film would argue that it has been effective because
>> it
>>>>>>> is true. But truth is not, of itself, persuasive. When we receive
>>>>>>> new
>>
>>>>>>> information on a topic we have no idea whether it is true or not. We
>>
>>>>>>> base our conclusions on how it was presented to us, whether it
>>>>>>> concurs
>>
>>>>>>> with what we already know about that topic, how far we trust the
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> telling us, and how well that information fits inside our world
>>>>>>> view.
>> We
>>>>>>> then seek to match our initial conclusions against the conclusions
>> of
>>>>>>> our peers. So, although we think we seek truth, the process by which
>> we
>>>>>>> reach opinions is equally capable of leading us in the wrong
>>>>>>> direction.
>>>>>>> It turns out that Swindle was a collection of rather crude
>>>>>>> distortions
>>
>>>>>>> in an elegant package. We now know that the data was misrepresented,
>> the
>>>>>>> charts re-arranged, and the interviews edited in ways that were
>>>>>>> designed
>>>>>>> to mislead."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindl e
>>>>>>> "Although the documentary was welcomed by global warming sceptics,
>> it
>>>>>>> was criticised heavily by many scientific organisations and
>>>>>>> individual
>>
>>>>>>> scientists (including two of the film's contributors[3][4]). The
>>>>>>> film's
>>>>>>> critics argued that it had misused data, relied on out-of-date
>>>>>>> research,
>>>>>>> employed misleading arguments, and misrepresented the position of
>>>>>>> the
>>
>>>>>>> Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: http://www.climateofdenial.net/?q=node/7
>>>>>>> "The DVD version of ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’ has been
>>>>>>> available for purchase since late July 2007. The front of the
>>>>>>> presentation case describes it as a “documentary”, which is defined
>> by
>>>>>>> the Oxford English Dictionary as “a film or television or radio
>>>>>>> programme giving a factual account of something, using film,
>>>>>>> photographs, and sound recordings of real events”. However, the DVD
>>
>>>>>>> contains at least five major misrepresentations of the scientific
>>>>>>> evidence and researchers’ views on climate change. This document
>>>>>>> presents details of the five misrepresentations."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pure_propaganda_the.p hp
>>>>>>> "What we now have is an out-and-out propaganda piece, in which there
>> is
>>>>>>> not even a gesture toward balance or explanation of why many of the
>>
>>>>>>> extended inferences drawn in the film are not widely accepted by the
>>
>>>>>>> scientific community. There are so many examples, it's hard to know
>>
>>>>>>> where to begin, so I will cite only one: a speaker asserts, as is
>>>>>>> true,
>>>>>>> that carbon dioxide is only a small fraction of the atmospheric
>>>>>>> mass.
>>
>>>>>>> The viewer is left to infer that means it couldn't really matter.
>>>>>>> But
>>
>>>>>>> even a beginning meteorology student could tell you that the
>>>>>>> relative
>>
>>>>>>> masses of gases are irrelevant to their effects on radiative
>>>>>>> balance.
>> A
>>>>>>> director not intending to produce pure propaganda would have tried
>> to
>>>>>>> eliminate that piece of disinformation.”
>>>>>>> (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/
>>>>>>> papersonline/channel4response)"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> -Jamie
>>>>>>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rich Lamanna wrote:
>>>>>>>> Must be global warming. Anyone seen this? If you've got an hour
>>>>>>>> check
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> out. It may take a minute or two to load.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warm ing-Swindle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rich
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:479e36ad$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>> Woke up this morning and the temp with wind chill was -59C >:(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why did I move here again???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David.
>>
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I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Mon, 28 January 2008 11:55
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 13:27
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Bill L on Mon, 28 January 2008 12:30
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:02
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 14:38
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:48
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:50
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:53
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Neil on Mon, 28 January 2008 22:59
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 21:56
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:49
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 28 January 2008 20:04
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Mon, 28 January 2008 23:39
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Re: I hate winter...
By: excelav on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:03
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 09:51
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:36
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 11:16
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Tue, 29 January 2008 22:03
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I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Thu, 31 January 2008 15:26
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:35
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Thu, 31 January 2008 17:10
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Deej [5] on Fri, 01 February 2008 10:40
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:57
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 11:55
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 13:53
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: excelav on Fri, 01 February 2008 20:31
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Jamie K on Fri, 01 February 2008 23:10
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: Kim on Thu, 31 January 2008 19:31
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Re: I just this liberal would get a clue......
By: dc[3] on Thu, 31 January 2008 23:08
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Jamie K on Wed, 30 January 2008 02:03
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:38
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Deej [5] on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:48
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Wed, 30 January 2008 01:41
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Don Nafe on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:31
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Re: I hate winter...
By: EK Sound on Tue, 29 January 2008 07:45
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:41
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Tue, 29 January 2008 05:50
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Tue, 29 January 2008 10:42
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Re: I hate winter...
By: Sarah on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:56
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Re: I hate winter...
By: rick on Thu, 31 January 2008 02:28
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Re: I hate winter...
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