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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74364 is a reply to message #74351] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 06:30   |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and
waste your valuable time like that?
IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the
room, the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary
calamity happens to you?
Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
"reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
DJ wrote:
> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office machine.
> I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling Windows on
> my normal machine right now.
>
>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74365 is a reply to message #74364] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 06:45 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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My wireless went out last week and hosed XP. UN FREAKING BELIEVABLE.
Last Known config didn't work, Wouldn't boot past loading personal settings.
nice.
Jamie K wrote:
>
> Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and
> waste your valuable time like that?
>
> IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the
> room, the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary
> calamity happens to you?
>
> Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
> "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
> Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> DJ wrote:
>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office
>> machine. I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm
>> reinstalling Windows on my normal machine right now.
>>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74366 is a reply to message #74365] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 06:46 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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sorry, i meant wireless mouse
John wrote:
> My wireless went out last week and hosed XP. UN FREAKING BELIEVABLE.
> Last Known config didn't work, Wouldn't boot past loading personal
> settings.
>
> nice.
>
> Jamie K wrote:
>>
>> Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and
>> waste your valuable time like that?
>>
>> IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the
>> room, the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary
>> calamity happens to you?
>>
>> Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
>> "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
>> Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office
>>> machine. I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm
>>> reinstalling Windows on my normal machine right now.
>>>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74372 is a reply to message #74364] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 07:12 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
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While I agree with you _completely_ about M$oft you know it's prefectly reasonable
for a driver to cause a kernel panic and almost every OS out there. As a
OS X.CuteFurryAminal user you're working with a mach kernel which makes that
far, far less likely (at a performance cost of course) to blow out the kernel
but a driver can still make the user space unusable.
In either case if someone doesn't know how to remove the driver and undo
the changes made to config files and/or the registry one might wind up reinstalling
the OS. I haven't reinstalled XP other than by choice in many, many years,
but I'm willing to fish out the .inf file and work my way backwards while
booted off of a CD. And the Win32::Registry::File perl module lets me load
the entire registry into a hash so searching the entire registry takes, oh,
a few hundredths of a second.
Also, you must be a hell of a lot smarter than I am because when I was learning
Debian I probably reinstalled fifty times on various machines while learning
monkey stupid stuff like what's in /etc/init.d and xorg.conf. Same for BeOS
beta on a Power Computing PPC clone when I had to boot into open firmware
(OMG I can't believe I remember that, anyone who says your memory is destroyed
by alcohol and drug abuse is full of it). But hey, that's just me, other
people I guess can get that stuff right on the first try.
None of which in any was is a defense of M$oft, I promise.
TCB
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and
>waste your valuable time like that?
>
>IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the
>room, the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary
>calamity happens to you?
>
>Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
>"reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
>Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>DJ wrote:
>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office machine.
>> I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling Windows
on
>> my normal machine right now.
>>
>>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74374 is a reply to message #74364] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 07:44 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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Unless of course you have a bad USB bus (not just driver) on the motherboard
that looks like an OSX problem for the first two years - leading to wiping
your system drive, reinstalling the OS 3 times, losing 1 hard drive due to
corruption from kernel panics (the original system drive from Apple, btw),
and find that even for a 4 year old Mac the motherboard is $700 to replace.
In addition, losing CD writing capability due to a faulty combo drive....
At that point you see how relatively cost effective a less than perfect
Windows based system really is. Windows isn't great, but at least I can
build a complete PC for the cost of replacing a Mac motherboard... FWIW,
I've never had to reinstall Windows on any PC I've owned.
;-)
Truthfully, OSX and Windows aren't the solution for audio. There really
isn't one. While Linux may be a better OS from a developer's point of view,
it just isn't practical for audio since we are so entrenched in the other
two now, and it won't be. BeOS was likely the last potential way out of
this sibling rivalry between Steve and Bill. Now we won't see an exit
strategy until they both companies retire from the marketplace.
Did you guys see that Apple shipped a bunch of video iPods with a Windows
virus on board? Joswiak blamed Microsoft for having a virus prone OS. LOL.
I'm sure it was MS's fault for making Apple manufacture the iPods to begin
with. ;-) These two companies take the cake. Sigh....
Can't live with 'em, can't reformat 'em.
Dedric
On 10/18/06 7:30 AM, in article 45362a45@linux, "Jamie K"
<Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
> "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
> Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> DJ wrote:
>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office machine.
>> I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling Windows on
>> my normal machine right now.
>>
>>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74377 is a reply to message #74372] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 08:06 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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Heh. Well I haven't started up my MSWindows box in a while, so I guess I
_am_ smarter than you... ;^)
And I try not to waste time with odd and wobbly concepts like "the
registry."
Having to stop everything and reinstall an OS is about the biggest
performance hit you can take, so I'll stick with your "CuteFurryAminal"
for now. In the future, reliability will continue to be important to me
in OS choices. BTW, "Aminal" is cute just by itself. :^)
I think you're much, much deeper into Linux than me or most folks around
here. I'm sure you are _way_ smarter than me when it comes to Linux. I
evaluated it enough to know it wasn't quite there for me on a few levels
but worth looking at again, down the road.
My BeOS experience has been very straightforward, no "reinstalling"
necessary. The only problem there was MSWindows not playing nice sharing
the hardware. And of course, the company going under due to
non-competitive behavior from DJ's nemesis.
I've never had to reinstall TOS, AmigaOS, OS9 or OSX either, and I'm not
really all that lucky. But I've lost a fair amount of time to MSWindows,
I'd like to send them a bill.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
TCB wrote:
> While I agree with you _completely_ about M$oft you know it's prefectly reasonable
> for a driver to cause a kernel panic and almost every OS out there. As a
> OS X.CuteFurryAminal user you're working with a mach kernel which makes that
> far, far less likely (at a performance cost of course) to blow out the kernel
> but a driver can still make the user space unusable.
>
> In either case if someone doesn't know how to remove the driver and undo
> the changes made to config files and/or the registry one might wind up reinstalling
> the OS. I haven't reinstalled XP other than by choice in many, many years,
> but I'm willing to fish out the .inf file and work my way backwards while
> booted off of a CD. And the Win32::Registry::File perl module lets me load
> the entire registry into a hash so searching the entire registry takes, oh,
> a few hundredths of a second.
>
> Also, you must be a hell of a lot smarter than I am because when I was learning
> Debian I probably reinstalled fifty times on various machines while learning
> monkey stupid stuff like what's in /etc/init.d and xorg.conf. Same for BeOS
> beta on a Power Computing PPC clone when I had to boot into open firmware
> (OMG I can't believe I remember that, anyone who says your memory is destroyed
> by alcohol and drug abuse is full of it). But hey, that's just me, other
> people I guess can get that stuff right on the first try.
>
> None of which in any was is a defense of M$oft, I promise.
>
> TCB
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and
>> waste your valuable time like that?
>>
>> IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the
>> room, the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary
>> calamity happens to you?
>>
>> Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
>> "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
>> Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office machine.
>
>>> I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling Windows
> on
>>> my normal machine right now.
>>>
>>>
>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74388 is a reply to message #74374] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 09:46 |
animix
Messages: 356
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
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It's a wonderful feeling to follow the driver installation instructions to
the letter, then Install the PCI card, log in to windows and get a little
message saying "Explorer.exe not recognized. You need to reinstall
Windows"......so you boot to safe mode and the same thing happens, so you
yank the card and boot to safe mode and the same thing happens......and you
know that your last Ghosting was a week ago so if you just go back to the
last image, you lose a weeks work
I'm just now waking up and I actually dreamed about this (from 4:00to 10:30
AM) so it's like I didn't sleep at all.
Deej
"Dedric Terry" <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote in message
news:C15B9A07.4741%dterry@keyofd.net...
> Unless of course you have a bad USB bus (not just driver) on the
motherboard
> that looks like an OSX problem for the first two years - leading to wiping
> your system drive, reinstalling the OS 3 times, losing 1 hard drive due to
> corruption from kernel panics (the original system drive from Apple, btw),
> and find that even for a 4 year old Mac the motherboard is $700 to
replace.
> In addition, losing CD writing capability due to a faulty combo drive....
>
> At that point you see how relatively cost effective a less than perfect
> Windows based system really is. Windows isn't great, but at least I can
> build a complete PC for the cost of replacing a Mac motherboard... FWIW,
> I've never had to reinstall Windows on any PC I've owned.
>
> ;-)
>
> Truthfully, OSX and Windows aren't the solution for audio. There really
> isn't one. While Linux may be a better OS from a developer's point of
view,
> it just isn't practical for audio since we are so entrenched in the other
> two now, and it won't be. BeOS was likely the last potential way out of
> this sibling rivalry between Steve and Bill. Now we won't see an exit
> strategy until they both companies retire from the marketplace.
>
> Did you guys see that Apple shipped a bunch of video iPods with a Windows
> virus on board? Joswiak blamed Microsoft for having a virus prone OS.
LOL.
> I'm sure it was MS's fault for making Apple manufacture the iPods to begin
> with. ;-) These two companies take the cake. Sigh....
>
> Can't live with 'em, can't reformat 'em.
>
> Dedric
>
> On 10/18/06 7:30 AM, in article 45362a45@linux, "Jamie K"
> <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> > Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
> > "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall"
> > Atari's TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -Jamie
> > http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> >
> >
> > DJ wrote:
> >> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office
machine.
> >> I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling Windows
on
> >> my normal machine right now.
> >>
> >>
>
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74404 is a reply to message #74364] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 13:15 |
Dubya Mark Wilson
Messages: 108
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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Good grief, Jamie. You've been around PC's for a while, right? I've seen
it 29,463,876 plus or minus a few times. If an elephant was behaving
normally and is behaving normally and a mouse makes a booty call and the
elephant gets coded ouyt the door into the rain, there' a more
likely-than-not presumption leveraged by good ol' horse sense (or elephant
sense in this case) that since everything was fine until the mouse showed
up, the mouse needs to go bye-bye. While it's plausible that MS didn't give
Belkin a full meal code deal for their driver development, mouses have been
around for a long time and anyone doing device drivers can get it right way
easier than getting it wrong.
I'll bet good money you don't let your kids whip out a cereal box CDROM and
install cheap apps on your PARIS rig. And I'll bet there are a scant few
who sell more cheaply made hdwr/swr products than Belkin.
W. Mark Wilson
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:45362a45@linux...
>
> Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and waste
> your valuable time like that?
>
> IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the room,
> the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary calamity
> happens to you?
>
> Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
> "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall" Atari's
> TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
> DJ wrote:
>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office
>> machine. I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling
>> Windows on my normal machine right now.
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| Re: I hate Belkin [message #74406 is a reply to message #74404] |
Wed, 18 October 2006 13:35 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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I've been around computers for a while, yep. If the OS needs to be
reinstalled 29,463,876 times, by at least the 3rd time I would be
questioning the whole system and looking for something more reliable.
If I hitch a trailer to my truck I don't want to see the truck blow up.
If that happened I would investigate the trailer AND the truck. And the
hitch.
I feel for Deej.
BTW, my current music production rig, dual G5 OSX Logic, is always
multitasking a bunch of apps. It isn't "stripped down" at all, plus
there's a ton of stuff hanging off of the various ports. Not that I'm
saying it's perfect, mind you, just that right now it's the most
reliable and capable production system I've had to date.
(Knock on silicon)
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
Dubya Mark Wilson wrote:
> Good grief, Jamie. You've been around PC's for a while, right? I've seen
> it 29,463,876 plus or minus a few times. If an elephant was behaving
> normally and is behaving normally and a mouse makes a booty call and the
> elephant gets coded ouyt the door into the rain, there' a more
> likely-than-not presumption leveraged by good ol' horse sense (or elephant
> sense in this case) that since everything was fine until the mouse showed
> up, the mouse needs to go bye-bye. While it's plausible that MS didn't give
> Belkin a full meal code deal for their driver development, mouses have been
> around for a long time and anyone doing device drivers can get it right way
> easier than getting it wrong.
>
> I'll bet good money you don't let your kids whip out a cereal box CDROM and
> install cheap apps on your PARIS rig. And I'll bet there are a scant few
> who sell more cheaply made hdwr/swr products than Belkin.
>
> W. Mark Wilson
>
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:45362a45@linux...
>> Why should loading a driver completely hose an operating system and waste
>> your valuable time like that?
>>
>> IOW, why do you hate Belkin yet not even mention the elephant in the room,
>> the operating system manufacturer, when this kind of unnecessary calamity
>> happens to you?
>>
>> Just curious. BTW, I've also been through the preposterous and silly
>> "reinstalling MSWindows" time soak. I've never had to "reinstall" Atari's
>> TOS, AmigaOS, MacOS9, BeOS, Linux or MacOSX.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> DJ wrote:
>>> I just loaded Belkin drivers for a USB 2.0 controller on my office
>>> machine. I'm typing this from my backup machine because I'm reinstalling
>>> Windows on my normal machine right now.
>
>
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