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| Re: The music industry [message #79737 is a reply to message #79735] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 17:36   |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Neil,
>
>And I've been saying the opposite, and I know your post is not intended
in
>reply to me.
>
>Why dismiss a genre as limited and just loops and samples, when it's not
>even a genre you are interested in?
I never said I wasn't interested in it - I do enjoy some of it,
though I don't seek it out, per se'. I mostly like it for some
of the female vocalists, because it's about the only current
genre with some energy behind it wherein you can hear some good
female singers that aren't overcompressed Amy Lee clones.
(go check out Flyleaf's hgome page for a REALLY overcompressed
example on the chorus of "Fully Alive").
I've recorded some hip-hop & R&B over the years, and I enjoyed
working on some of that, as well (one of the bands was
called "The Krunch" - two of whom went on to become the "Mac-
Money" team of guys that do a lot of samples & loops for
Sony/Acid); although it's certainly not a genre that I would
say I bring anything to the table for, other than my mad
engineerin' skillz. :D
And even if I wasn't interested in it in the least bit, I guess
I would respond to your question in the following manner: "for
the same reason that Thad dismisses a geezer rock genre that he
has no interest in."
Neil
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| Re: The music industry [message #79740 is a reply to message #79725] |
Thu, 08 February 2007 19:01 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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TCB wrote:
> Some of us find beats and bass lines to be at least as interesting as melody
> and harmony. Which is not to say that all hip hop is lacking in melodic or
> harmonic interest, just that there is a universe in the rhythm.
Oh, absolutely Thad. I love a good drum circle, for example.
I've shot some hip hop concerts by big name artists, check my web site.
Some were good or partially good, some were appallingly bad.
But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look
elsewhere without it being a knee-jerk diss.
Whereas I thought your geezer throwaway line was a knee-jerk diss of a
much wider range of music and musicians.
And BTW, I disagree with your line about about Kraftwerk, they did some
fun stuff but much of it flirted with boredom for me. You're missing a
lot if you stopped there but that just my opinion. Granted the fear and
loathing writing style is fun to engage in, but Hunter is dead.
(OK, that wasn't so fun to write and I miss the real Hunter).
Back to the music: I am usually looking for other things, ALONG WITH
great rhythmic ideas (in most bands I listen to the drummer first and I
dig a good bassist, but then I want more). Add in great melodies,
counterpoint, thematic development, instrumental talent and even
virtuosity, great singing...stuff that is absent or less present in most
hip hop, and that's what really makes my ears happiest.
I don't usually get much from being shouted at, yo, or having cheesy sub
bass lines pounded incessantly into my skull. Or record scratching. Or
repetitive inexpressive synth lines with the world's most boring
patches. or "bands" that are one guy yelling insults, more guys yelling
trash and a guy standing alone in back with some turntables and flashing
lights, or fake turntables and flashing lights. Or one woman singing
through autotune with just a bunch of dancers bouncing around an
erector-set stage, no musicians at all.
Again, I'm not saying all hip hop is like that, and probably there's
some I haven't heard that I'd like, but I've heard a lot of hip hop that
fits the above description.
A friend of mine is in a hip hop group that does some groovy almost-jazz
jams, with actual musicians playing live instruments behind a very
socially conscious rapper, they are better than most. But still not
something I'd listen to every day. There's no melody, very little
development, no singing, and no playing that makes my skin tingle. It
doesn't suck but it doesn't climb the musical mountain to a really
stunning view.
There's room in the world for a lot of different tastes. So enjoy what
you dig but don't be surprised if other people simply don't dig it.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> People talking and yelling in rhythm over a sonic background can be
>> listenable, even compelling. But it's harder to be as _musical_ as you
>> can be in genres that make greater use of melody and development.
>>
>> Lyrically, when it's just shock lyrics it's not particularly
>> interesting. Even though not all rapping is like that, the genre has
>> that reputation.
>>
>> When posturing and dance have to take up the slack, sometimes the
>> dancing is spectacular. Other times it's mostly about marching back and
>
>> forth, repetitive gesturing, crotch grabbing and other simplistic and
>> cheesy moves.
>>
>> So really, it all depends on the piece and the performer.
>>
>> I could say similar things about other genres. So it's not the genre,
>> per se, it's the results that opens rappers to criticism from people who
>
>> would rather hear something more musical.
>>
>> Also, if you're looking for a virtuostic performance on an instrument or
>
>> amazing singing, there's not much there in a lot of hip hop. Some, yes,
>
>> but generally it doesn't deliver those goods. So the question of musical
>
>> talent comes up.
>>
>> To point those aspects out isn't dismissing the genre out of hand, it's
>
>> just recognizing some of the limitations that have become obvious since
>
>> the day when rapping actually was something new and fresh, and that's
>> been a while.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> chuck duffy wrote:
>>> You know the thing that has always bugged me about this group is how hiphop
>>> gets dismissed out of hand almost every time its mentioned. If I close
> my
>>> eyes I can almost see the bumperstickers that say RAP=CRAP next to the
> picture
>>> of calvin peeing on the chevy.
>>>
>>> I love three chord rockers, love the who, stones, beatles, kinks. But
> I
>>> also (I'm dating myself) love innovative, sonically interesting, thought
>>> provoking hiphop by guys like dela soul, pharcyde and tribe called quest.
>>> I don't understand how anyone could listen to that and not find at least
>>> something sonically or lyrically interesting. Who gives a rats ass if
> it's
>>> samples and loops put together.
>>>
>>> It also get's me thinking about intolerance. As many of you know, i am
> a
>>> PK. My dad is nutty as a fruitcake intolerant. Bad language, bad manners,
>>> things he percieved to be innately 'worthless', how society was going
> to
>>> hell with violence, the emptyness of the consumer society, the list goes
>>> on and on. One day he was raving on and on about a movie he had seen.
> Couldn't
>>> stop talking about it. Said it was the best thing he had seen in 20
> years.
>>> Go figure, guy can't stand to see a bloddy nose, change a diaper or hear
>>> a curse word and his favorite movie of the the past 20 years turns out
> to
>>> be BOYS IN THE HOOD!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>> Agreed..Those 2 genres are the titans..
>>>>
>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>> At my daughter's high school it's a big mix of everything, but
>>>>> there are lots of people rockin' including black kids. Also
>>>>> with a lot of music, the line between rock and rap is pretty
>>>>> darn hard to find sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>> DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritch.net> wrote:
>>>>>> James , I'm talking about the teens..Most of teen, including my own
> and
>>>>> neighbors
>>>>>> listen to Hip /Rap..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> LaMont we live in the same place, and run in two different crowds,
> not
>>>>> everybody
>>>>>>> here is in to RAP. Many are though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Not Me..I'm not surprised... Both Rock and RAP have been battling
> each
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the better part of the last 10 years. Rap
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RAP Sales have been dominate for the last 2 years with groups such
> as
>>>>> Outcast.
>>>>>>>> But this where things get's confusing.. Both Outcast & Ludacris aven
>>>> Em
>>>>>>> &
>>>>>>>> EM where catagorzed aS ROCK!!!! As is Jay-Z..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, you can see that how the numbers for Rock climbed. Some in the
> industry
>>>>>>>> calls this racism. I can tel you that in my neighborhood (Macomb)
> Mi
>>>> nearly
>>>>>>>> all kid(Wjites , Blacks, Hispanic) listen to only Hip Hop rap..And
> No
>>>>> Rock..
>>>>>>>> And that's the trend all over this world not just the US..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Music industry stats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?nd mViewId=news_view&newsId=20070104005813&newsLang=en
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By genre, I'm surprised that Metal sold more than RAP. In fact,
> I'm
>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>> that Rock is about three times bigger than RAP. You'd never know
> it
>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> watching
>>>>>>>>> MTV or by watching any music award shows. You'd think nothing is
> bigger
>>>>>>>>> than RAP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was also surprised that the band No Doubt wasn't listed in the
> top
>>>>> ten
>>>>>>>>> albums from 1991-2006. I read and was told by Matt Wilder and Tony
>>>> Ferguson
>>>>>>>>> (Interscope Records) that Tragic Kingdom sold around 16 million
> records
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> set sales records???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.taxi.com/faq/ar/ferguson.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> James
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79745 is a reply to message #79740] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 06:20 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
without it being a knee-jerk diss."
Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the overly
simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the use
of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat to real
orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives honing
their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity, stopping
only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read) to
impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of musicianship,
but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the very
idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of lifelessness
and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
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| Re: The music industry [message #79759 is a reply to message #79745] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 08:26 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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chuck duffy wrote:
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>> But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
> by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
> without it being a knee-jerk diss."
>
> Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the overly
> simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
It's also record scratching (or samples thereof) and crotch grabbing,
don't forget. ;^)
> For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the use
> of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat to real
> orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives honing
> their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
> come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
> with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
> sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity, stopping
> only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read) to
> impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
Heh.
> It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of musicianship,
> but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the very
> idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of lifelessness
> and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
LOL.
I'll get you a bag to hork into.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
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| Re: The music industry [message #79777 is a reply to message #79745] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 11:04 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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FWIW, I may be able to explain some of that to make sense to you. Think of
the music not as a death (as in real life) but more in a comic book / Alice
Cooper context. It is not real, it's a fantasy land for this genre' -
although there are always idiots out there that don't understand and take it
WAY too far...
As to the orchestral part of it, it's an extension, in my experiences, of
the limitations of being tuned down and very heavily distored. Sort of like
when they kick an ac gtr piece out, only an extension of this thinking. It's
an expanded view of their skills I have found, and that's pretty cool. Most
of (note, I said -most-) the death metal guys I've worked with/around are
quite thoughtful and intelligent. Sadly, much more so than the bible belt
free riding idiots from religious groups I have in the past had to deal
with.
FWIW anyway. I'm of the mind that you get it being a PK but if not I hope
I've only illuminated and not offended.
AA
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45cc752d$1@linux...
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>>But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
> by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
> without it being a knee-jerk diss."
>
> Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the
> overly
> simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
>
> For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the use
> of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat to
> real
> orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives
> honing
> their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
> come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
> with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
> sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity,
> stopping
> only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read) to
> impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
>
> It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of
> musicianship,
> but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the
> very
> idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of
> lifelessness
> and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
>
>
>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79782 is a reply to message #79777] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 12:36 |
chuck duffy
Messages: 453
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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Aaron,
Reading your post reminded me of what a great guy you are :-) I wasn't even
aware there was really something called symphonic death metal. I was setting
it up as a joke on how people categorize hip-hop as not music, contradicting
my own post on how people shouldn't be bothered by genres they don't work
in.
I have no problem with mega orchestral sample libraries or the people who
use them, no matter what the genre :-)
Chuck
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>FWIW, I may be able to explain some of that to make sense to you. Think
of
>the music not as a death (as in real life) but more in a comic book / Alice
>Cooper context. It is not real, it's a fantasy land for this genre' -
>although there are always idiots out there that don't understand and take
it
>WAY too far...
>As to the orchestral part of it, it's an extension, in my experiences, of
>the limitations of being tuned down and very heavily distored. Sort of like
>when they kick an ac gtr piece out, only an extension of this thinking.
It's
>an expanded view of their skills I have found, and that's pretty cool. Most
>of (note, I said -most-) the death metal guys I've worked with/around are
>quite thoughtful and intelligent. Sadly, much more so than the bible belt
>free riding idiots from religious groups I have in the past had to deal
>with.
>
>FWIW anyway. I'm of the mind that you get it being a PK but if not I hope
>I've only illuminated and not offended.
>
>AA
>
>
>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45cc752d$1@linux...
>>
>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>
>>>But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
>> by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
>> without it being a knee-jerk diss."
>>
>> Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the
>> overly
>> simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
>>
>> For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the
use
>> of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat to
>> real
>> orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives
>> honing
>> their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
>> come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
>> with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
>> sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity,
>> stopping
>> only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read)
to
>> impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
>>
>> It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of
>> musicianship,
>> but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the
>> very
>> idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of
>> lifelessness
>> and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79786 is a reply to message #79782] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 13:04 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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You guys should check out ichabod, they're an Amish Metal Rap band, it's going
to be the next big thing!
James
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Aaron,
>
>Reading your post reminded me of what a great guy you are :-) I wasn't
even
>aware there was really something called symphonic death metal. I was setting
>it up as a joke on how people categorize hip-hop as not music, contradicting
>my own post on how people shouldn't be bothered by genres they don't work
>in.
>
>I have no problem with mega orchestral sample libraries or the people who
>use them, no matter what the genre :-)
>
>Chuck
>
>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>FWIW, I may be able to explain some of that to make sense to you. Think
>of
>>the music not as a death (as in real life) but more in a comic book / Alice
>
>>Cooper context. It is not real, it's a fantasy land for this genre' -
>>although there are always idiots out there that don't understand and take
>it
>>WAY too far...
>>As to the orchestral part of it, it's an extension, in my experiences,
of
>
>>the limitations of being tuned down and very heavily distored. Sort of
like
>
>>when they kick an ac gtr piece out, only an extension of this thinking.
>It's
>>an expanded view of their skills I have found, and that's pretty cool.
Most
>
>>of (note, I said -most-) the death metal guys I've worked with/around are
>
>>quite thoughtful and intelligent. Sadly, much more so than the bible belt
>
>>free riding idiots from religious groups I have in the past had to deal
>
>>with.
>>
>>FWIW anyway. I'm of the mind that you get it being a PK but if not I hope
>
>>I've only illuminated and not offended.
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45cc752d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
>>> by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
>>> without it being a knee-jerk diss."
>>>
>>> Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the
>
>>> overly
>>> simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
>>>
>>> For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the
>use
>>> of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat
to
>
>>> real
>>> orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives
>
>>> honing
>>> their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
>>> come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
>>> with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
>>> sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity,
>
>>> stopping
>>> only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read)
>to
>>> impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
>>>
>>> It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of
>>> musicianship,
>>> but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the
>
>>> very
>>> idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of
>>> lifelessness
>>> and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79792 is a reply to message #79782] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 13:41 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
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irony + internet = wha??
heh
DC
"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote:
>
>Aaron,
>
>Reading your post reminded me of what a great guy you are :-) I wasn't
even
>aware there was really something called symphonic death metal. I was setting
>it up as a joke on how people categorize hip-hop as not music, contradicting
>my own post on how people shouldn't be bothered by genres they don't work
>in.
>
>I have no problem with mega orchestral sample libraries or the people who
>use them, no matter what the genre :-)
>
>Chuck
>
>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>FWIW, I may be able to explain some of that to make sense to you. Think
>of
>>the music not as a death (as in real life) but more in a comic book / Alice
>
>>Cooper context. It is not real, it's a fantasy land for this genre' -
>>although there are always idiots out there that don't understand and take
>it
>>WAY too far...
>>As to the orchestral part of it, it's an extension, in my experiences,
of
>
>>the limitations of being tuned down and very heavily distored. Sort of
like
>
>>when they kick an ac gtr piece out, only an extension of this thinking.
>It's
>>an expanded view of their skills I have found, and that's pretty cool.
Most
>
>>of (note, I said -most-) the death metal guys I've worked with/around are
>
>>quite thoughtful and intelligent. Sadly, much more so than the bible belt
>
>>free riding idiots from religious groups I have in the past had to deal
>
>>with.
>>
>>FWIW anyway. I'm of the mind that you get it being a PK but if not I hope
>
>>I've only illuminated and not offended.
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45cc752d$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
>>> by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
>>> without it being a knee-jerk diss."
>>>
>>> Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the
>
>>> overly
>>> simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
>>>
>>> For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the
>use
>>> of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat
to
>
>>> real
>>> orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives
>
>>> honing
>>> their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
>>> come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
>>> with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
>>> sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity,
>
>>> stopping
>>> only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read)
>to
>>> impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
>>>
>>> It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of
>>> musicianship,
>>> but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the
>
>>> very
>>> idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of
>>> lifelessness
>>> and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79797 is a reply to message #79782] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 13:21 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Heh, you had to make something up to find something worse than hip hop.
Just kidding! ;^)
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
chuck duffy wrote:
> Aaron,
>
> Reading your post reminded me of what a great guy you are :-) I wasn't even
> aware there was really something called symphonic death metal. I was setting
> it up as a joke on how people categorize hip-hop as not music, contradicting
> my own post on how people shouldn't be bothered by genres they don't work
> in.
>
> I have no problem with mega orchestral sample libraries or the people who
> use them, no matter what the genre :-)
>
> Chuck
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>> FWIW, I may be able to explain some of that to make sense to you. Think
> of
>> the music not as a death (as in real life) but more in a comic book / Alice
>
>> Cooper context. It is not real, it's a fantasy land for this genre' -
>> although there are always idiots out there that don't understand and take
> it
>> WAY too far...
>> As to the orchestral part of it, it's an extension, in my experiences, of
>
>> the limitations of being tuned down and very heavily distored. Sort of like
>
>> when they kick an ac gtr piece out, only an extension of this thinking.
> It's
>> an expanded view of their skills I have found, and that's pretty cool. Most
>
>> of (note, I said -most-) the death metal guys I've worked with/around are
>
>> quite thoughtful and intelligent. Sadly, much more so than the bible belt
>
>> free riding idiots from religious groups I have in the past had to deal
>
>> with.
>>
>> FWIW anyway. I'm of the mind that you get it being a PK but if not I hope
>
>> I've only illuminated and not offended.
>>
>> AA
>>
>>
>> "chuck duffy" <c@c.com> wrote in message news:45cc752d$1@linux...
>>> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But if you and Chuck are wondering why not everyone is thoroughly amazed
>>> by hip hop in general, there are reasons people may want to look elsewhere
>>> without it being a knee-jerk diss."
>>>
>>> Jamie I never asked anyone to be amazed. I just don't understand the
>
>>> overly
>>> simplistic rap is just samples and loops bit.
>>>
>>> For example, i'm not a fan of symphonic death metal. I think that the
> use
>>> of large scale symphonic sample libraries is a cheap demeaning cheat to
>
>>> real
>>> orchestra players, conductors and composers who have spent their lives
>
>>> honing
>>> their skills and applying their craft. These symphonic death metal guys
>>> come along with huge oversized midi rigs, gigantic over-powered computers
>>> with massive amounts of RAM, and ham fistedly thrust away at their touch
>>> sensitive keyboards in a frenzy of mellodramatic hair brained insanity,
>
>>> stopping
>>> only to print out scores they never wrote (and definitely can't read)
> to
>>> impress their symphonic death metal groupies.
>>>
>>> It makes me sick to my stomache, not only for the appalling lack of
>>> musicianship,
>>> but for the atrocious misunderstanding of the nature of death, and the
>
>>> very
>>> idea that they can sufficiently illuminate the twin realities of
>>> lifelessness
>>> and the void using the self-limiting vocabulary of symphonic death metal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: The music industry [message #79803 is a reply to message #79798] |
Fri, 09 February 2007 15:32 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ichabod rocks!
There was a big rock fight on the Ohio Pennsylvania border. Battle of the
amish metal bands. The last two bands standing were Ichabod against The
Malachi's, kind of a Hatfield's against the Macoy's. Ichabod won, the Malachi's
were disqualified because they wore fake beards and hair extensions.
There was some great music to come out of that battle of the bands though.
Amish Metal rules dude! It's the best most innovative music to come out
in a long time. It's not some retread old geezer stuff, it's Amish Metal.
The new band wagon to get on, it's gonna be big, and by now you know, I'm
putting you on.
Guys, music is subjective and we all have different tastes. You can have
your opinion, but saying something like, RAP is the best and most innovative
form of music to day, would be ridiculous. It would be like saying that
break dancing is the best form of dancing. Just like Geezer Rock packed
arenas and still does, doesn't mean it's the best stuff out there.
What is the best music is pretty silly, it subjective.
The Geezer Rock comment is some what true, there is a lot of old tired rock
out there. Although, it seemed that it was a slam on all rock, including
new rock, as to say it all sucks, it's all old retread stuff, and RAP is
new and innovative.
I must say I am inspired with this term Geezer Rock. I think I'm going to
dig up all the old Geezer rock stuff I wrote in the 80s and rerecord a bunch
of that old stuff. I might even call the CD Geezer Rock! Geezer Rock Productions!
On retread records. The Old Geezers are so old school it's cool!
We've been through it all before here. I will say that Rock has it's roots
in the Blues, but not all rock. I don't hear much Muddy Waters in Iron Maiden,
or Chuck berry in Rush, TNT, Saxon, Pantera, Yngwie Malmsteen, Genesis, Kansas
etc. So it's not all a rip off.
However, a lot of stuff was ripped off so to speak, or should we say influenced.
The depictions in the movie Dream Girls was sad, funny and pathetic all
at the same time. Just like what they are doing in the industry these days
is sad, funny and pathetic.
They are always pushing a lot of crap, and some eat it up like candy. It's
called bad taste, and a lot of people have it. Just because something is
popular doesn't mean it's good. The industry decides what will be popular.
They ram it down our throats until the masses start to like the taste of
the shit they are pushing. The kids are being raised on what the industry
says is cool, and that is all they will know. It's also called marketing
or brain washing. It's always good to listen to some different kinds of
music once in a while to open up to different things.
In the end it's opinion and we all got one.
"W. Mark Wilson" <xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote:
>
>
>I'll stick by my prognostication Neil if you'll make the same one James'
=
>just made.
>
>W. Mark Wilson
>
>.
>"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45ccda03$1@linux...
>>=20
>> "W. Mark Wilson" <xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote:
>>>James, although it pleases me to read about and then hear these =
>musical
>>=20
>>>alloys, I doubt that Amish Metal Rap is going to be the next big =
>thing.
>>=20
>> No? Then you ought to check out "Slap Up My Bitch Buggy" by the
>> Butter Churning Ho's. Charting at #2 on Soundscan right now.
>>=20
>> :D
>>
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"">
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll stick by my prognostication Neil=20
>if you'll make the same one James' just made.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>W. Mark Wilson</DIV>
><DIV><BR>.<BR>"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message=20
>news:45ccda03$1@linux...<BR>> <BR>> "W. Mark Wilson"=20
><xpam_mark@avidrecording> wrote:<BR>>>James, although it =
>pleases me=20
>to read about and then hear these musical<BR>> <BR>>>alloys, I =
>doubt=20
>that Amish Metal Rap is going to be the next big thing.<BR>> <BR>> =
>No?=20
>Then you ought to check out "Slap Up My Bitch Buggy" by the<BR>> =
>Butter=20
>Churning Ho's. Charting at #2 on Soundscan right now.<BR>> <BR>>=20
>:D<BR>></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>
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