Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » levels in paris
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| Re: levels in paris [message #76945 is a reply to message #76943] |
Mon, 11 December 2006 15:28   |
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John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Clip in Mec inputs bad
This corresponds with prefader meters.
Clip in postfader meters is ok.
To get close to an accurate reading, turn off any insert FXs, unclick the
all-EQ switch, make sure trim is set to zero, and set "show meters as post
fader" to off. Any of these could have an impact on the LED/meter, but don't
impact the actual signal being recorded to disk. Now set input gain. Take
the signal to point of clipping and watch your hardware LEDs on the MEC.
The hardware and software clipping indicators should be quite close. Then
set gain so that no clipping occurs.
===
1. The global master meter does not have clip indicators
2. The global master meter sometimes reads incorrectly based on the monitor
level
3. If you are using Waves plug-ins on the mac, you cannot count on your settings
be restoring correctly during on update.
So basically, sometimes for final mixes, I will "bounce" each submix, then
create a new submix and add in all of my bounced files
and do a final bounce of that. That way I can use the submixes meter as
the master, and I do not have the problem with waves plug-ins
===
Mixer window- under the 'settings' menu at the top, uncheck (that is, turn
off) 'Show meters as post fader.' The meters are now pre-fader. The meter
will now read whatever signal strength is hitting the input regardless of
where you set the fader. Control the signal level with the output of the
Sans-amp or whatever signal source you're using. Also, be aware that there
is a trim knob in the expanded view of the eq section. Keep in mind that
this gain knob never changes the recorded signal, it can only process the
output.
Even if you have the meter set to "pre-fader", the meter will show the compression.
So if you are recording with compression turned on, make sure that you set
the levels with it turned off. or your levels will be wrong.
===
For a workaround, create a new project and import all your submixes from
the working project into a single submix. You
now have your headroom indicators.
I was wondering what everyone does to deal with the fact that the master
"global" meter does not have a head room indicator.
I would like to get the output as hot as possible, but I have no way of
knowing if I'm getting any "overs".
Obviously this is not a problem if you only have one submix, but in a multi
submix project, it gets tricky.
===
1. The meters in PARIS are peak meters. You can't just "go well into the
yellow" 2 get a hot mix that averages --10. You have to stay "way" into the
yellow with all the peaks riding into the red. Unless you are doing this
it's very likely your average program is -10 or below. The main rule of thumb
is never to have an over. If you are going to be doing further eq processing
in another program it's best to leave the meters peaking consistently around
-3.
2. In a single submix make absolutely certain that the Global Masters Meters
correspond exactly to the meters in your submix. If they do not check for
plugins on the Global Master that are reducing gain. Key plugin here would
be compression.
===
The clip lights on the MEC are pre conversion and indicate analog clipping.
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| Re: levels in paris [message #76952 is a reply to message #76945] |
Mon, 11 December 2006 16:54 |
uptown jimmy
Messages: 441
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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I'm referring ONLY to mixing here, not tracking.
I forbid any clipping during tracking, period.
Jimmy
"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:457ddb84$1@linux...
>
> Clip in Mec inputs bad
> This corresponds with prefader meters.
>
> Clip in postfader meters is ok.
>
> To get close to an accurate reading, turn off any insert FXs, unclick the
> all-EQ switch, make sure trim is set to zero, and set "show meters as
post
> fader" to off. Any of these could have an impact on the LED/meter, but
don't
> impact the actual signal being recorded to disk. Now set input gain. Take
> the signal to point of clipping and watch your hardware LEDs on the MEC.
> The hardware and software clipping indicators should be quite close. Then
> set gain so that no clipping occurs.
>
> ===
> 1. The global master meter does not have clip indicators
> 2. The global master meter sometimes reads incorrectly based on the
monitor
> level
> 3. If you are using Waves plug-ins on the mac, you cannot count on your
settings
> be restoring correctly during on update.
>
> So basically, sometimes for final mixes, I will "bounce" each submix, then
> create a new submix and add in all of my bounced files
> and do a final bounce of that. That way I can use the submixes meter as
> the master, and I do not have the problem with waves plug-ins
> ===
> Mixer window- under the 'settings' menu at the top, uncheck (that is, turn
> off) 'Show meters as post fader.' The meters are now pre-fader. The meter
> will now read whatever signal strength is hitting the input regardless of
> where you set the fader. Control the signal level with the output of the
> Sans-amp or whatever signal source you're using. Also, be aware that
there
> is a trim knob in the expanded view of the eq section. Keep in mind that
> this gain knob never changes the recorded signal, it can only process the
> output.
>
>
> Even if you have the meter set to "pre-fader", the meter will show the
compression.
> So if you are recording with compression turned on, make sure that you set
> the levels with it turned off. or your levels will be wrong.
>
> ===
> For a workaround, create a new project and import all your submixes from
> the working project into a single submix. You
> now have your headroom indicators.
>
> I was wondering what everyone does to deal with the fact that the master
> "global" meter does not have a head room indicator.
> I would like to get the output as hot as possible, but I have no way of
> knowing if I'm getting any "overs".
> Obviously this is not a problem if you only have one submix, but in a
multi
> submix project, it gets tricky.
>
> ===
> 1. The meters in PARIS are peak meters. You can't just "go well into the
> yellow" 2 get a hot mix that averages --10. You have to stay "way" into
the
> yellow with all the peaks riding into the red. Unless you are doing this
> it's very likely your average program is -10 or below. The main rule of
thumb
> is never to have an over. If you are going to be doing further eq
processing
> in another program it's best to leave the meters peaking consistently
around
> -3.
>
> 2. In a single submix make absolutely certain that the Global Masters
Meters
> correspond exactly to the meters in your submix. If they do not check for
> plugins on the Global Master that are reducing gain. Key plugin here would
> be compression.
> ===
> The clip lights on the MEC are pre conversion and indicate analog
clipping.
>
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| Re: levels in paris [message #76959 is a reply to message #76952] |
Tue, 12 December 2006 05:17 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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Then you are on the right track. Push faders into red as to taste using
your ears. Don't clip EDS or Native effects though.
Also don't use EQ 1 as your first choice (of the 4 bands). I had some bug.
If you have your amp REALLY loud then you can push your submix faders up
moderately with the master pulled down and then you can push the submix faders
to make sure you are not just trying to get volume gain.
Keep pulling the master down as you push submix faders up. This way you'll
get the volume you want and will be listening to the sound and not trying
to just get it louder.
This makes it easy to hear distortion. Then, turn your amp down and push
your masters up to distortion and back off a bit. Of course meters are selected
post fader here.
"Uptown Jimmy" <johnson314@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I'm referring ONLY to mixing here, not tracking.
>
>I forbid any clipping during tracking, period.
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:457ddb84$1@linux...
>>
>> Clip in Mec inputs bad
>> This corresponds with prefader meters.
>>
>> Clip in postfader meters is ok.
>>
>> To get close to an accurate reading, turn off any insert FXs, unclick
the
>> all-EQ switch, make sure trim is set to zero, and set "show meters as
>post
>> fader" to off. Any of these could have an impact on the LED/meter, but
>don't
>> impact the actual signal being recorded to disk. Now set input gain.
Take
>> the signal to point of clipping and watch your hardware LEDs on the MEC.
>> The hardware and software clipping indicators should be quite close.
Then
>> set gain so that no clipping occurs.
>>
>> ===
>> 1. The global master meter does not have clip indicators
>> 2. The global master meter sometimes reads incorrectly based on the
>monitor
>> level
>> 3. If you are using Waves plug-ins on the mac, you cannot count on your
>settings
>> be restoring correctly during on update.
>>
>> So basically, sometimes for final mixes, I will "bounce" each submix,
then
>> create a new submix and add in all of my bounced files
>> and do a final bounce of that. That way I can use the submixes meter
as
>> the master, and I do not have the problem with waves plug-ins
>> ===
>> Mixer window- under the 'settings' menu at the top, uncheck (that is,
turn
>> off) 'Show meters as post fader.' The meters are now pre-fader. The meter
>> will now read whatever signal strength is hitting the input regardless
of
>> where you set the fader. Control the signal level with the output of the
>> Sans-amp or whatever signal source you're using. Also, be aware that
>there
>> is a trim knob in the expanded view of the eq section. Keep in mind that
>> this gain knob never changes the recorded signal, it can only process
the
>> output.
>>
>>
>> Even if you have the meter set to "pre-fader", the meter will show the
>compression.
>> So if you are recording with compression turned on, make sure that you
set
>> the levels with it turned off. or your levels will be wrong.
>>
>> ===
>> For a workaround, create a new project and import all your submixes from
>> the working project into a single submix. You
>> now have your headroom indicators.
>>
>> I was wondering what everyone does to deal with the fact that the master
>> "global" meter does not have a head room indicator.
>> I would like to get the output as hot as possible, but I have no way of
>> knowing if I'm getting any "overs".
>> Obviously this is not a problem if you only have one submix, but in a
>multi
>> submix project, it gets tricky.
>>
>> ===
>> 1. The meters in PARIS are peak meters. You can't just "go well into the
>> yellow" 2 get a hot mix that averages --10. You have to stay "way" into
>the
>> yellow with all the peaks riding into the red. Unless you are doing this
>> it's very likely your average program is -10 or below. The main rule of
>thumb
>> is never to have an over. If you are going to be doing further eq
>processing
>> in another program it's best to leave the meters peaking consistently
>around
>> -3.
>>
>> 2. In a single submix make absolutely certain that the Global Masters
>Meters
>> correspond exactly to the meters in your submix. If they do not check
for
>> plugins on the Global Master that are reducing gain. Key plugin here would
>> be compression.
>> ===
>> The clip lights on the MEC are pre conversion and indicate analog
>clipping.
>>
>
>
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