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| Nuendo latency compensation??? Sort of! [message #88624] |
Mon, 30 July 2007 13:32  |
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mikep[1]
Messages: 27
Registered: July 2007
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Junior Member |
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I have been trying to learn my way around Nuendo as a possible future tracking/mixing
app. One of the biggest advantages to me was its auto latency compensation,
or so I thought. I was fooling around with stems of a song I recorded in
Paris and I used a few plugins on some of the stems. I finished what little
processing I was adding and started really listening to the song as a whole
when I realized it didn't have the same "feel" as it did without any processing.
I listened to the 2 track version and it definately sounded more "musical".
After much muting and bypassing, I realized that the guitars and bass were
a little late and it was ruining the rhythm of the song.
I agree that the tracks would have been way out of sync without the latency
compensation, but it didn't correct properly. How can I trust it now?
Anyone else have this issue?
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| Re: Nuendo latency compensation??? Sort of! [message #88630 is a reply to message #88629] |
Mon, 30 July 2007 19:38  |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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It may depend on the plugins you are using - some may be off in their delay
report to the PDC engine. Never had an issue with PDC here other than a few
times when inserting a UAD-1 plugin during playback (PDC can't calculate the
delay during playback, but once stopped and restarted, all is well).
Dedric
On 7/30/07 5:58 PM, in article 46ae7b0a$1@linux, "Mikep"
<mikep@hometownrecords.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I'll try that.
>
>
> "DJ" <animix _ at _ animas _ dot _ net> wrote:
>> Save the project, close Nuendo and relaunch the application. Sometimes PDC
>
>> just gets a mind of it's own and needs to have it's ass kicked.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>> "mikep" <mikep@hometownrecords.com> wrote in message
>> news:46ae4adc$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I have been trying to learn my way around Nuendo as a possible future
>
>>> tracking/mixing
>>> app. One of the biggest advantages to me was its auto latency
>>> compensation,
>>> or so I thought. I was fooling around with stems of a song I recorded
> in
>>> Paris and I used a few plugins on some of the stems. I finished what
>>> little
>>> processing I was adding and started really listening to the song as a
>
>>> whole
>>> when I realized it didn't have the same "feel" as it did without any
>>> processing.
>>> I listened to the 2 track version and it definately sounded more
>>> "musical".
>>> After much muting and bypassing, I realized that the guitars and bass
> were
>>> a little late and it was ruining the rhythm of the song.
>>> I agree that the tracks would have been way out of sync without the
>>> latency
>>> compensation, but it didn't correct properly. How can I trust it now?
>>>
>>> Anyone else have this issue?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Nuendo latency compensation??? Sort of! [message #88674 is a reply to message #88670] |
Wed, 01 August 2007 20:38 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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HI Niel,
If they are older VST or X plug-ins then they do not report latency so
the program has to pretty much wing it.
If there are plug-ins that have some form of FT or look ahead processing
which many mastering Es and compressors have or convolution based plug
ins will some times have very high buffers that add to the plug ins
latency. If a plug in or host pap is working right then adding a time
based effects will behave no different than a hard ware time based
effect would in an analog mixer.If he is monitoring an audio signal or
playing a VST instrument in real time then any plug ins added to that
signal that add that extra buffer will add up to a much higher latency
on the output signal. The plug in with the highest buffer will be the
output latency of the whole signal chain. So say if you had a 100 tracks
with comps and es and revers, etc that do not have any large buffer
added the in to out of PD will only be 1-2 ms difference normally. If
there is a large buffer plug in anywhere in the project even if it is
bypassed the buffer can add sometime up to 6ms to the output latency.
This is of course only an issue if you trying to monitor the effect on a
live signal of playing a VSTi. There should be if everything is working
right no latencies happening in the internal signal chain of the host pap.
Some of the better sound cards will actually report the AD/DA latency as
part of the driver latency. This will some time mis-lead people into
think that the device they use that does not report this is able to play
at a lower latency that it really is.
Chris
Neil wrote:
> I'd also be curious to know exactly which plugins or kinds of
> plugins he's talking about. Is he talking about a compressor or
> other type of dynamics plugin - in which case there shouldn't
> be any perceptible difference - or is he talking about a time-
> based plugin like a chorus, which by design will delay the
> signal a little bit on the processed portion, and if he had
> that effect set on "mostly wet", then yeah it's going to sound
> like it's running behind the beat a little bit - perhaps by as
> much as double-digit milliseconds.
>
> Neil
>
>
> Chris Ludwig oaudio.com> wrote:
>
>> HI Mike,
>> You make no mention of what audio interface or OS, plug ins or version
>> of Nuendo you are using.
>> Any or all of these can effect how good or bad PDc will function.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> mikep wrote:
>>
>>> I have been trying to learn my way around Nuendo as a possible future
>>>
> tracking/mixing
>
>>> app. One of the biggest advantages to me was its auto latency compensation,
>>> or so I thought. I was fooling around with stems of a song I recorded
>>>
> in
>
>>> Paris and I used a few plugins on some of the stems. I finished what little
>>> processing I was adding and started really listening to the song as a
>>>
> whole
>
>>> when I realized it didn't have the same "feel" as it did without any processing.
>>> I listened to the 2 track version and it definately sounded more "musical".
>>> After much muting and bypassing, I realized that the guitars and bass
>>>
> were
>
>>> a little late and it was ruining the rhythm of the song.
>>> I agree that the tracks would have been way out of sync without the latency
>>> compensation, but it didn't correct properly. How can I trust it now?
>>>
>>> Anyone else have this issue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>> ADK
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> (859) 635-5762
>>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
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| Re: Nuendo latency compensation??? Sort of! [message #88691 is a reply to message #88669] |
Fri, 03 August 2007 11:58 |
mikep[1]
Messages: 27
Registered: July 2007
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Junior Member |
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I was using tracks that were recorded in Paris, I don't have an interface
for Nuendo yet. I am using my stereo motu 2496 sound card for playback. I
am running Nuendo 3.2 in win xp on a pretty fast machine. I believe I was
using the Izotope mastering plugin on the guitars.
On another note, I ran the stems dry and bounced them down both in Paris
and Nuendo just to see what the sound difference was. It was huge, Nuendo
had much less definition in the center channel, which made it sound wider,
but not necessarily in a good way. The Paris mix was punchier and sounded
more dense. I played it for two of my students and they both liked the Paris
mix much better was well.
Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Mike,
>You make no mention of what audio interface or OS, plug ins or version
>of Nuendo you are using.
>Any or all of these can effect how good or bad PDc will function.
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>
>mikep wrote:
>> I have been trying to learn my way around Nuendo as a possible future
tracking/mixing
>> app. One of the biggest advantages to me was its auto latency compensation,
>> or so I thought. I was fooling around with stems of a song I recorded
in
>> Paris and I used a few plugins on some of the stems. I finished what little
>> processing I was adding and started really listening to the song as a
whole
>> when I realized it didn't have the same "feel" as it did without any processing.
>> I listened to the 2 track version and it definately sounded more "musical".
>> After much muting and bypassing, I realized that the guitars and bass
were
>> a little late and it was ruining the rhythm of the song.
>> I agree that the tracks would have been way out of sync without the latency
>> compensation, but it didn't correct properly. How can I trust it now?
>>
>> Anyone else have this issue?
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Chris Ludwig
>ADK
>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>(859) 635-5762
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| Re: Nuendo latency compensation??? Sort of! [message #88706 is a reply to message #88691] |
Fri, 03 August 2007 21:42 |
Chris Ludwig
Messages: 868
Registered: May 2006
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Senior Member |
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HI Mike, Yes as Neils says it could be a pan law thing. Also be real
careful with Izotope Ozone.. Besides being one of those plug-ins with a
huge buffer I've had do weird stuff to mixes also. It is very easy to
accidentally leave on some of the imaging portions of the plug in.
Chris
mikep wrote:
> I was using tracks that were recorded in Paris, I don't have an interface
> for Nuendo yet. I am using my stereo motu 2496 sound card for playback. I
> am running Nuendo 3.2 in win xp on a pretty fast machine. I believe I was
> using the Izotope mastering plugin on the guitars.
>
> On another note, I ran the stems dry and bounced them down both in Paris
> and Nuendo just to see what the sound difference was. It was huge, Nuendo
> had much less definition in the center channel, which made it sound wider,
> but not necessarily in a good way. The Paris mix was punchier and sounded
> more dense. I played it for two of my students and they both liked the Paris
> mix much better was well.
>
> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>
>> HI Mike,
>> You make no mention of what audio interface or OS, plug ins or version
>> of Nuendo you are using.
>> Any or all of these can effect how good or bad PDc will function.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> mikep wrote:
>>
>>> I have been trying to learn my way around Nuendo as a possible future
>>>
> tracking/mixing
>
>>> app. One of the biggest advantages to me was its auto latency compensation,
>>> or so I thought. I was fooling around with stems of a song I recorded
>>>
> in
>
>>> Paris and I used a few plugins on some of the stems. I finished what little
>>> processing I was adding and started really listening to the song as a
>>>
> whole
>
>>> when I realized it didn't have the same "feel" as it did without any processing.
>>> I listened to the 2 track version and it definately sounded more "musical".
>>> After much muting and bypassing, I realized that the guitars and bass
>>>
> were
>
>>> a little late and it was ruining the rhythm of the song.
>>> I agree that the tracks would have been way out of sync without the latency
>>> compensation, but it didn't correct properly. How can I trust it now?
>>>
>>> Anyone else have this issue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Chris Ludwig
>> ADK
>> chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>> www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>> (859) 635-5762
>>
>
>
--
Chris Ludwig
ADK
chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
(859) 635-5762
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| Re: Nuendo latency compensation??? Sort of! [message #88720 is a reply to message #88706] |
Sat, 04 August 2007 10:09 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
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Senior Member |
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Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>HI Mike, Yes as Neils says it could be a pan law thing. Also be real
>careful with Izotope Ozone.. Besides being one of those plug-ins with a
>huge buffer I've had do weird stuff to mixes also. It is very easy to
>accidentally leave on some of the imaging portions of the plug in.
OH YEAH, Good point... I didn't even think of that! Yes, Mike,
if you picked one of the Ozone presets as a stating point,
there's a good chance you have the Multiband Stereo Imaging
section engaged. you have to really be careful of that,
especially on the low end - it can drop the center out of your
soundstage pretty easily (or boost the center & drop the sides
out, if you go into the negative ranges on the imaging
settings). If you have that feature "on", then check to see
that you're not getting too crazy with the stereo spread on any
band - and I would recommend if you're using it in multi-band
mode, don't spread out anything below the 250hz/300hz range
at ALL, and then add your spread percentages gradually above
that - like perhaps +2 on the next band up, +4 or +5 on the
next... know what I mean? If you're using it in single-band
mode, I'd say don't go above +3 under any circumstances - your
bottom end will get flabby. (Then we'll have to send you to the
gym. lol)
All in all, though, it's probably a useless comparison to
listen to a Paris mix & a Nuendo or SX mix & try to make one
sound like the other... they're different beasts... it'd be
like having the ability to toggle between a mix on a Neve
console & the same mix on an SSL console & saying "Wow, these
two don't sound alike." - well, no kidding. Point is, they're
both good, just "different".
Neil
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