Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » How do you handle it when....?
| How do you handle it when....? [message #70180] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 09:07  |
![brandon[2] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "brandon[2] is currently offline")
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
B
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70181 is a reply to message #70180] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 09:22  |
Chris Lang
Messages: 91
Registered: March 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
"21" song every now and then!
I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
Peace,
Chris
"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>
>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>
>B
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70195 is a reply to message #70181] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 12:16 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were. I
wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am doing
it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me every
step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
paying I would indulge them.
Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
I still listen to it from time to time as well.
I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
Getting close to completion.
Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
Lots of stuff to figure out.
Take care all.
"Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>
>Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>"21" song every now and then!
>
>I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>
>My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>
>My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>
>Peace,
>
>Chris
>
>
>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>
>>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
>>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>
>>B
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70196 is a reply to message #70195] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 12:22 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I
> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
doing
> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
every
> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
> paying I would indulge them.
What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank amateur and
is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix will
leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to mixes
that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will sound
wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
everyone that it is your fault.
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
>
> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were. I
> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
doing
> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
every
> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
> paying I would indulge them.
> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
> Getting close to completion.
> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
> Lots of stuff to figure out.
>
> Take care all.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
> >
> >Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
> >"21" song every now and then!
> >
> >I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
> >
> >My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
> >The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
> >He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
> >utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
> >just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
> >
> >My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
> >etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
> >for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
> >will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
> >can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
> >
> >Peace,
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
insistant
> >>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
> >>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
> >>
> >>B
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70199 is a reply to message #70195] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 14:00 |
Rich[3]
Messages: 132
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
What hardware are you using with Cubase - I've been looking at the Mackie
Oynox mixer with a firewire card added to it... as an addition to Paris
"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>
>Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were.
I
>wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am doing
>it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me every
>step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
>paying I would indulge them.
>Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>Getting close to completion.
>Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>Lots of stuff to figure out.
>
>Take care all.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>
>>Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>"21" song every now and then!
>>
>>I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>
>>My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>
>>My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>
>>Peace,
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>
>>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>>>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
to
>>>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>
>>>B
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70201 is a reply to message #70196] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 16:49 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 7/10/06 1:22 PM, in article 44b2a970$1@linux, "DJ"
<animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>
> What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank amateur and
> is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix will
> leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to mixes
> that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will sound
> wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
> everyone that it is your fault.
>
I know an engineer that says he's gotten more work by turning down work.
It's both reverse psychology and good time management. It's a concept I'm
adopting for the very reason you stated DJ. Amateur clients usually want
miracles for peanuts, and are the most difficult to deal with - not worth my
time, or theirs.
It's hard to know what a client will be like up front though, and takes a
bit of diplomacy to steer them in the right direction without offending or
turning them away, so sometimes you just have to let a few go.
If you are stuck in a situation you couldn't avoid, my advice would be to do
what the client asks, and move on.
Regards,
Dedric
>
> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
>>
>> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were. I
>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
> doing
>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
> every
>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
>> paying I would indulge them.
>> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>> Getting close to completion.
>> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>> Lots of stuff to figure out.
>>
>> Take care all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>> "21" song every now and then!
>>>
>>> I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>>
>>> My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>> The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>> He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>> utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>> just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>>
>>> My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>> etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>> for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>> will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>> can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
> insistant
>>>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
>>>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>>
>>>> B
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70203 is a reply to message #70180] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 17:39 |
Nei
Messages: 108
Registered: November 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>
>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>on very little or no compression?
Go ahead & do it, just give him an "option" mix the way you
think it ought to be, even if you do it on your own time...
that way:
a.) You're giving him a choice that you're not charging him
extra for... unless he's a total asshole, he'll appreciate this.
b.) You've got your ass covered if someone comes in to check out
your studio, but says: "Yeah, but I heard that stuff you did
for Dilbert Dillwinkle, and I didn't think it sounded all that
great." then you say: "Oh yeah, well listen to THIS version of
it." Monitors up, Scotty!
c.) Dilbert may come around after listening to your version a
few times.
>How do you handle it when they want to know everything about
>the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
Tell 'em the stuff they can see, but not the stuff they
can't... such as:
"Hey, so what is it again that you're doing to get my vocal
sound?"
"Well, you remember we used that old mic over there into this
Preamp here, with just a little bit of compression on the
way in."
"I see.. and the rest? Like what kind of stuff did you put on
it during the mix? What were those 'plug-in' thingies?"
"Secret Weapon... can't tell ya."
Or, really, if you're confident enough in your abilities, you
can just go ahead & spill every detail, because you KNOW he's
not gonna get the same results anywhere else, because YOU RAWK!
Something like this:
"Hey, so what is it again that you're doing to get my vocal
sound?"
"Well, you remember we used that Neumann M-47, into this
Muscusrite Red-15, and I made sure to max out the gain as far
as I could go before distorting the loud parts - that way we
got more breathiness in your softer parts, which you said you
liked when we were trying out mics earlier; then I slapped on
a little bit of this Distressor with the Brit Mod before we hit
the convertors, just in case things got too hot... you know, I
didn't want to lose a good take. Then I used this plugin called
a Voxengo Voxformer for some transparent compression & also
de-essing... see what happens when I pull it out? Sounds much
better with it in, huh? I also cut a very shallow swath out at
750 hz to get rid of that nasal thing you said you didn't like
about your voice, then I used this linear-phase EQ to boost
1.5db at a 2.7 "Q" setting at each 10k, 16k & 22k just to
enhance the airiness of the track, but I automated that - it
only comes in on the chorus parts. Check it... with...
without... with... without... you like? For reverb I used a
Lexicon Pantheon on a small-ish room setting, but with no high-
end cutoff, and on the chorus parts a delay comes in that's
sync'ed to the quarter-beat, but then backed-off one
millisecond so it lags just a tiny bit so the vocals seem a
little bit more relaxed, and it's set to 27% feedback so you
only clearly hear two repeats at this tempo, and the third
repeat gets mostly covered up by the start of your next line,
but it's just barely audible so it all flows smoothly."
That's me... I pretty much tell 'em everything. I figure no
one's going to remember it anyway, and unless I'm someone
famous, no one's going to think my secrets are worth stealing
anyhoo.
Neil
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70209 is a reply to message #70201] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 21:41 |
John Macy
Messages: 242
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
When I (rarely) get into a situation where I am]
pressed to do something I would not want to do,
I just tell the client that I will be glad to do
it, but there can be no mention of my name in the
credits on the project. Usually takes less than 5
minutes to come around.... :)
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>On 7/10/06 1:22 PM, in article 44b2a970$1@linux, "DJ"
><animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank amateur
and
>> is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix
will
>> leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to
mixes
>> that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will sound
>> wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
>> everyone that it is your fault.
>>
>
>I know an engineer that says he's gotten more work by turning down work.
>It's both reverse psychology and good time management. It's a concept I'm
>adopting for the very reason you stated DJ. Amateur clients usually want
>miracles for peanuts, and are the most difficult to deal with - not worth
my
>time, or theirs.
>
>It's hard to know what a client will be like up front though, and takes
a
>bit of diplomacy to steer them in the right direction without offending
or
>turning them away, so sometimes you just have to let a few go.
>
>If you are stuck in a situation you couldn't avoid, my advice would be to
do
>what the client asks, and move on.
>
>Regards,
>Dedric
>
>>
>> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
>>>
>>> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were.
I
>>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>> doing
>>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>> every
>>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they
were
>>> paying I would indulge them.
>>> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>>> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>>> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>>> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>>> Getting close to completion.
>>> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>>> Lots of stuff to figure out.
>>>
>>> Take care all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>>> "21" song every now and then!
>>>>
>>>> I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>>>
>>>> My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>>> The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>>> He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>>> utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>>> just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>>>
>>>> My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>>> etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>>> for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>>> will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>>> can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>>>
>>>> Peace,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
>> insistant
>>>>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
to
>>>>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>>>
>>>>> B
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70210 is a reply to message #70209] |
Mon, 10 July 2006 23:15 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That type of statement certainly would be an eye opener. Good idea.
"John Macy" <spamlessjohn@johnmacy.com> wrote in message
news:44b32bf9$1@linux...
>
> When I (rarely) get into a situation where I am]
> pressed to do something I would not want to do,
> I just tell the client that I will be glad to do
> it, but there can be no mention of my name in the
> credits on the project. Usually takes less than 5
> minutes to come around.... :)
>
>
>
> Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
> >On 7/10/06 1:22 PM, in article 44b2a970$1@linux, "DJ"
> ><animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank
amateur
> and
> >> is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix
> will
> >> leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to
> mixes
> >> that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will
sound
> >> wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
> >> everyone that it is your fault.
> >>
> >
> >I know an engineer that says he's gotten more work by turning down work.
> >It's both reverse psychology and good time management. It's a concept I'm
> >adopting for the very reason you stated DJ. Amateur clients usually want
> >miracles for peanuts, and are the most difficult to deal with - not worth
> my
> >time, or theirs.
> >
> >It's hard to know what a client will be like up front though, and takes
> a
> >bit of diplomacy to steer them in the right direction without offending
> or
> >turning them away, so sometimes you just have to let a few go.
> >
> >If you are stuck in a situation you couldn't avoid, my advice would be to
> do
> >what the client asks, and move on.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Dedric
> >
> >>
> >> "Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
> >>>
> >>> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts
were.
> I
> >>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
> >> doing
> >>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
> >> every
> >>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they
> were
> >>> paying I would indulge them.
> >>> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
> >>> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
> >>> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
> >>> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
> >>> Getting close to completion.
> >>> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
> >>> Lots of stuff to figure out.
> >>>
> >>> Take care all.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
> >>>> "21" song every now and then!
> >>>>
> >>>> I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
> >>>>
> >>>> My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
> >>>> The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
> >>>> He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
> >>>> utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
> >>>> just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
> >>>>
> >>>> My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
> >>>> etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
> >>>> for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
> >>>> will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
> >>>> can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Peace,
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
> >> insistant
> >>>>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they
want
> to
> >>>>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> B
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70212 is a reply to message #70180] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 00:54 |
Dubya Mark Wilson
Messages: 108
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I know you guys will laugh at this ploy but (and perhaps others will employ
my ploy) but when I was heavy on the road doing guitar I used to get
post-show exams on "how do you get should great tone, sounds, blah blah."
Because so few could really grasp that great guitar tone starts in your head
and can pretty much happen with most any guitar/amp setup, I developed
several more "believable" answers. So I built a small flat black box with a
wire coming out of it, wood and metal with rivets here and there and a made
up model number on placard. Wire went into my rack and disappeared into a
darkened recess. It was just easier to tell guys that the black box was
where the sound was really happening. Typical dialogue:
Q: Great tone... really cut it's own space in the show... whadya got going
here
A: Well this stuff is really pretty ordinary, Old Roland GP-100, a Rocktron
Type IIc for minimizing noise from the dirty patches out of the JMP-1, old
Rockman rackmount guitar pre for some of the clean stuff, I keep this old
Quadraverb for some patches that really do it for me - the noise doesn't
bother me much, and this guy here by DMC is where all my routing takes
place, and I output a stereo pair into this Ibanez SDR1000 which goes
directly to the 50/50 power amp... and these are just knock-offs of the old
Pacific 1x12" cabs. I had a guy copy them and build them from a slightly
denser woods... and that's pretty much it.
Q: But where are getting that tone of that tune (XYZ)?
A: That was the Rockman with some verb off the GP-100.
Q: Your cables must all be oxygen free or something, right?
A: Nah... I gotta mix of Canare quad and belden co-ax in there
Q: What kinda tubes in the power amp?
A: Ahhh... GT's, 5 rateds... nothing special there.
Q: What's this thing (black box) doing?
A: Some guy in California built that for me and that I don't really
couldn't tell you what it does or how it works but without it, my tone
pretty much just isn't there."
Q: Where can I get one?
And they are always so disappointed to learn that the builder is no longer
in business.
W.
"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>
> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>
> B
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70213 is a reply to message #70196] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 02:09 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
or his girlfriend/manager will call demanding their money
back...that's why you get them to sign a waiver on their mix.
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:22:30 -0600, "DJ"
<animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I
>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>doing
>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>every
>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
>> paying I would indulge them.
>
>What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank amateur and
>is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix will
>leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to mixes
>that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will sound
>wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
>everyone that it is your fault.
>
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
>>
>> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were. I
>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>doing
>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>every
>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
>> paying I would indulge them.
>> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>> Getting close to completion.
>> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>> Lots of stuff to figure out.
>>
>> Take care all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>> >
>> >Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>> >"21" song every now and then!
>> >
>> >I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>> >
>> >My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>> >The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>> >He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>> >utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>> >just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>> >
>> >My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>> >etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>> >for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>> >will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>> >can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>> >
>> >Peace,
>> >
>> >Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
>insistant
>> >>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
>> >>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>> >>
>> >>B
>> >
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70215 is a reply to message #70199] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 05:22 |
brandon[2]
Messages: 380
Registered: June 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I just got a EMU 0404. It was about $80 with a rebate that I haven't sent
in yet. The only thing that disappoints me about it is it doesn't send out
optical ADAT format. DJ posted a conversion box though that costs about $80.
Antway the coaxial SPDIF works fine. My current config monitors Cubase thru
PARIS via SPDIF on the MEC.
b
"rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>What hardware are you using with Cubase - I've been looking at the Mackie
>Oynox mixer with a firewire card added to it... as an addition to Paris
>
>
>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>
>>Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were.
>I
>>wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
doing
>>it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me every
>>step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they were
>>paying I would indulge them.
>>Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>>I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>>I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>>been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>>Getting close to completion.
>>Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>>Lots of stuff to figure out.
>>
>>Take care all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>>"21" song every now and then!
>>>
>>>I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>>
>>>My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>>The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>>He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>>utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>>just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>>
>>>My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>>etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>>for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>>will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>>can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>>
>>>Peace,
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>>>>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
>to
>>>>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>>
>>>>B
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70219 is a reply to message #70212] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 09:59 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I LOVE it! HA. I'm going to build one of those for the studio.
Rod
"Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote:
>I know you guys will laugh at this ploy but (and perhaps others will employ
>my ploy) but when I was heavy on the road doing guitar I used to get
>post-show exams on "how do you get should great tone, sounds, blah blah."
>Because so few could really grasp that great guitar tone starts in your
head
>and can pretty much happen with most any guitar/amp setup, I developed
>several more "believable" answers. So I built a small flat black box with
a
>wire coming out of it, wood and metal with rivets here and there and a made
>up model number on placard. Wire went into my rack and disappeared into
a
>darkened recess. It was just easier to tell guys that the black box was
>where the sound was really happening. Typical dialogue:
>
>Q: Great tone... really cut it's own space in the show... whadya got going
>here
>
>A: Well this stuff is really pretty ordinary, Old Roland GP-100, a Rocktron
>Type IIc for minimizing noise from the dirty patches out of the JMP-1, old
>Rockman rackmount guitar pre for some of the clean stuff, I keep this old
>Quadraverb for some patches that really do it for me - the noise doesn't
>bother me much, and this guy here by DMC is where all my routing takes
>place, and I output a stereo pair into this Ibanez SDR1000 which goes
>directly to the 50/50 power amp... and these are just knock-offs of the
old
>Pacific 1x12" cabs. I had a guy copy them and build them from a slightly
>denser woods... and that's pretty much it.
>
>Q: But where are getting that tone of that tune (XYZ)?
>
>A: That was the Rockman with some verb off the GP-100.
>
>Q: Your cables must all be oxygen free or something, right?
>
>A: Nah... I gotta mix of Canare quad and belden co-ax in there
>
>Q: What kinda tubes in the power amp?
>
>A: Ahhh... GT's, 5 rateds... nothing special there.
>
>Q: What's this thing (black box) doing?
>
>A: Some guy in California built that for me and that I don't really
>couldn't tell you what it does or how it works but without it, my tone
>pretty much just isn't there."
>
>Q: Where can I get one?
>
>And they are always so disappointed to learn that the builder is no longer
>in business.
>
>W.
>
>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>>
>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
to
>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>
>> B
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70222 is a reply to message #70219] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 11:33 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I just show them Frankencomp. After they get over the shock of seeing
Frankencomp I hand them a copy of the session methodology. Then tell them
that the reason it the way it does is because if everything id done exactly
right, that it is possible to configure two computers in a way that makes
the digital information sound like it's not being recorded on a computer at
all. They are usually so totally bewildered by that time that they get the
thousand yard stare, their eyes become glassy and fixed and they become meek
and submissive. I can sometimes even get them to go pick up my laundry and
go grocvery shopping for me. Sorta' like feeding them a digital dose of
Rohypnol.
;o)
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:44b3d8eb$1@linux...
>
> I LOVE it! HA. I'm going to build one of those for the studio.
> Rod
> "Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote:
> >I know you guys will laugh at this ploy but (and perhaps others will
employ
>
> >my ploy) but when I was heavy on the road doing guitar I used to get
> >post-show exams on "how do you get should great tone, sounds, blah blah."
>
> >Because so few could really grasp that great guitar tone starts in your
> head
> >and can pretty much happen with most any guitar/amp setup, I developed
> >several more "believable" answers. So I built a small flat black box
with
> a
> >wire coming out of it, wood and metal with rivets here and there and a
made
>
> >up model number on placard. Wire went into my rack and disappeared into
> a
> >darkened recess. It was just easier to tell guys that the black box was
>
> >where the sound was really happening. Typical dialogue:
> >
> >Q: Great tone... really cut it's own space in the show... whadya got
going
>
> >here
> >
> >A: Well this stuff is really pretty ordinary, Old Roland GP-100, a
Rocktron
>
> >Type IIc for minimizing noise from the dirty patches out of the JMP-1,
old
>
> >Rockman rackmount guitar pre for some of the clean stuff, I keep this old
>
> >Quadraverb for some patches that really do it for me - the noise doesn't
>
> >bother me much, and this guy here by DMC is where all my routing takes
> >place, and I output a stereo pair into this Ibanez SDR1000 which goes
> >directly to the 50/50 power amp... and these are just knock-offs of the
> old
> >Pacific 1x12" cabs. I had a guy copy them and build them from a slightly
>
> >denser woods... and that's pretty much it.
> >
> >Q: But where are getting that tone of that tune (XYZ)?
> >
> >A: That was the Rockman with some verb off the GP-100.
> >
> >Q: Your cables must all be oxygen free or something, right?
> >
> >A: Nah... I gotta mix of Canare quad and belden co-ax in there
> >
> >Q: What kinda tubes in the power amp?
> >
> >A: Ahhh... GT's, 5 rateds... nothing special there.
> >
> >Q: What's this thing (black box) doing?
> >
> >A: Some guy in California built that for me and that I don't really
> >couldn't tell you what it does or how it works but without it, my tone
> >pretty much just isn't there."
> >
> >Q: Where can I get one?
> >
> >And they are always so disappointed to learn that the builder is no
longer
>
> >in business.
> >
> >W.
> >
> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
> >>
> >> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
insistant
> >> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
> to
> >> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
> >>
> >> B
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70223 is a reply to message #70222] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 11:42 |
Rod Lincoln
Messages: 883
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Yeah...Frankencomp is pretty bewildering. I show people I know pics of Frankencomp.
Just the fact I know you gets a reaction.
I wish I had the room for a Frankencomp. In my head as well as my studio.
8Op'''''' oooops the stage is NOT level.
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I just show them Frankencomp. After they get over the shock of seeing
>Frankencomp I hand them a copy of the session methodology. Then tell them
>that the reason it the way it does is because if everything id done exactly
>right, that it is possible to configure two computers in a way that makes
>the digital information sound like it's not being recorded on a computer
at
>all. They are usually so totally bewildered by that time that they get
the
>thousand yard stare, their eyes become glassy and fixed and they become
meek
>and submissive. I can sometimes even get them to go pick up my laundry and
>go grocvery shopping for me. Sorta' like feeding them a digital dose of
>Rohypnol.
>
>;o)
>
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:44b3d8eb$1@linux...
>>
>> I LOVE it! HA. I'm going to build one of those for the studio.
>> Rod
>> "Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote:
>> >I know you guys will laugh at this ploy but (and perhaps others will
>employ
>>
>> >my ploy) but when I was heavy on the road doing guitar I used to get
>> >post-show exams on "how do you get should great tone, sounds, blah blah."
>>
>> >Because so few could really grasp that great guitar tone starts in your
>> head
>> >and can pretty much happen with most any guitar/amp setup, I developed
>> >several more "believable" answers. So I built a small flat black box
>with
>> a
>> >wire coming out of it, wood and metal with rivets here and there and
a
>made
>>
>> >up model number on placard. Wire went into my rack and disappeared into
>> a
>> >darkened recess. It was just easier to tell guys that the black box
was
>>
>> >where the sound was really happening. Typical dialogue:
>> >
>> >Q: Great tone... really cut it's own space in the show... whadya got
>going
>>
>> >here
>> >
>> >A: Well this stuff is really pretty ordinary, Old Roland GP-100, a
>Rocktron
>>
>> >Type IIc for minimizing noise from the dirty patches out of the JMP-1,
>old
>>
>> >Rockman rackmount guitar pre for some of the clean stuff, I keep this
old
>>
>> >Quadraverb for some patches that really do it for me - the noise doesn't
>>
>> >bother me much, and this guy here by DMC is where all my routing takes
>> >place, and I output a stereo pair into this Ibanez SDR1000 which goes
>> >directly to the 50/50 power amp... and these are just knock-offs of the
>> old
>> >Pacific 1x12" cabs. I had a guy copy them and build them from a slightly
>>
>> >denser woods... and that's pretty much it.
>> >
>> >Q: But where are getting that tone of that tune (XYZ)?
>> >
>> >A: That was the Rockman with some verb off the GP-100.
>> >
>> >Q: Your cables must all be oxygen free or something, right?
>> >
>> >A: Nah... I gotta mix of Canare quad and belden co-ax in there
>> >
>> >Q: What kinda tubes in the power amp?
>> >
>> >A: Ahhh... GT's, 5 rateds... nothing special there.
>> >
>> >Q: What's this thing (black box) doing?
>> >
>> >A: Some guy in California built that for me and that I don't really
>> >couldn't tell you what it does or how it works but without it, my tone
>> >pretty much just isn't there."
>> >
>> >Q: Where can I get one?
>> >
>> >And they are always so disappointed to learn that the builder is no
>longer
>>
>> >in business.
>> >
>> >W.
>> >
>> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
>insistant
>> >> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
>> to
>> >> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>> >>
>> >> B
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70226 is a reply to message #70206] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 14:09 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This assumes your client can't hear well. More than once I've gotten into
pretty heated arguments with people in mixing situations where I caught them
doing just this. Once I said something along the lines of, 'If I wanted the
drums to sound like an effin' beer commercial I would have told you. Now
TURN THAT SHIT OFF!'
To the original poster, you try to explain to them that they spent money
on your for a reason and that they might want to take some suggestions. At
the same time, they're writing the check, and perhaps giving word of mouth
recommendations for/against other people working with you, so that's something
consider. I don't know how many 'secrets' there really are these days but
I bet you could probably throw people off by giving them incorrect advice
('yes, it's PARIS, it sounds more clinical than Pro Tools which is why I
like it, less coloration in the final sonics') if you think you have true
'trade secrets.'
TCB
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>Oops . . . what I meant to say was . . . first I agree with them, "Oh,
I
>know . . . compression is way overused . . . takes the life right out of
the
>mix." Then I go ahead and compress the shit out of everything anyway.
:)
>
>SJB
>
>
>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>>
>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
to
>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>
>> B
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70232 is a reply to message #70225] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 18:27 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Honestly - and I don't mean for this to come across in any
belittling manner - but I don't see why you guys/gals get upset
about this sort of thing... what's the big deal?
Consider that:
a.) At one time you were interested in this stuff too, and at
some point SOMEONE must've helped you out - told you what was
what, or clue'd you in just a little bit as to what they were
doing. This is how I got into being a recordist - and many of
us here play an instrument or sing or both... I assume that you
didn't start playing an instrument as a result of going into
engineeering, but the other way around; so what's wrong with
giving a little of your expertise or experience? Telling
someone the details of one or two or three things that they
happen to ask about is not going to enable them to set up a
studio & start stealing your business. In most cases, this
isn't what they're after anyway, they're just interested like
you were when you first started asking questions about
recording & how certain things are done & certain sounds are
achieved.
b.) With regard to too much compression, not enough
compression, no compression, nothing but a trackful of
compressor noise-with compression applied to it... why not
give the client what they want? Or at least what they THINK
they want? How many of you are so busy that you couldn't take
the time to tell the guy: "OK, i really don't think this is
going to come across the way you're imagining it, but i'll do
it, then i'll do a slightly different version for you to
compare, so you can see what i'm talking about - how's that
sound? You can pick whichever one you like better - it's up to
you, of course." Who's going to say no to that? It'd take you
not much time, off the clock, to do a slightly different
version in most cases - then you're a hero if he likes it
better, and you're at the very least a cool guy in his mind
just for trying it even if he doesn't. You've also given
yourself an ass-covering opportunity as i mentioned in a
previous post.
3.) What if the band/artist is strapped for cash & they're just
paranoid about "getting it right" the first time, so they don't
incur extra hours on the clock? Maybe that's why they're being
so specific about what they want - maybe they're wrong in the
interpretation of what they want & how to actually get there,
but then again, maybe they can't identify what's going on to
cause the sounds they like in the CD they gave you a copy of &
said: "I want to sound like THAT!". Take a little pity... try &
work it out & define exactly what it is they're looking for...
"Hey JimBob, what you're telling me you want to hear is
completely different from that Hank Williams Jr. kinda sound,
who's CD you played for me & whom you said was your main
influence for writing this song: "Are you ready for some Ping-
Pong?", are you sure you want me to break away from that & go
with this mix that sounds like it's off the 2nd "Strange
Advance" record? Let's just take a moment off the clock here &
discuss this, because ultimately what's most important to me is
that you leave here with a product that makes you happy."
I dunno - I guess I think that as engineering/producing types
we get a little cocky about what's right & what's not. Imagine
how you'd feel if you went into record with someone else at the
helm & they fought you on something? In that respect, what's
the difference between you & the artist you're recording?
None - except YOUR perception of their ability to know what
sounds good or not - and don't forget, that perception may be
right or it may be wrong. I think if a client has a "vision",
you ought to fulfill it. If a client is insisting on a certain
sound that you think is below your quality standards, think of
how Dave Stewart & Annie Lennox recorded "Sweet Dreams" in an
apartment on a 1/4-inch 8-track R2R at the height of the mega-
studios with their sync'ed 2" Studers.... that song sold a few
copies, as I recall.
Anyway, I should shut up because now this is starting to sound
like some kind of pompous lecture. Bottom line here - I'm with
Gene... if someone's paying for your time, then they're paying
for whatever you impart as a result of that time - you're not
going to give the farm by being generous with your revelations
of what you did - in fact, you might even get more work out of
it - if you did something really cool, chances are greater that
someone will try to work the same kind of magic & fail, than
those of someone trying to work the same kind of magic &
succeed. As for the clients wishes and whether you should give
them what they want or not, I refer your imagination to Eugene
Levy's car salesdude taliing to Chevy Chase in the
original "Vacation":
"I owe it to myself to tell you that if you're taking the whole
tribe cross-country, the Wagon Queen Family Truckster is the
way to go. You think you hate it now, but just wait until you
drive it!"
Bottom line - Clark Griswold didn't get what he wanted... don't
give 'em what they'll think of as the audio equivalent of a
"Family Truckster".
Neil
(bracing for the flames)
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Sounds like a Chicago/Electrical Audio/Albini wannabe. Tell them to go
>there. I also really dig DJ's and also Sarah's response. !!!
>
>rock on,
>-Carl
>
>
>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>>
>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
to
>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>
>> B
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70233 is a reply to message #70181] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 19:26 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Chris, what's your band's name? What club was it, and what engineer?
Just curious since I'm in Denver.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
Chris Lang wrote:
> Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
> "21" song every now and then!
>
> I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>
> My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
> The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
> He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
> utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
> just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>
> My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
> etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
> for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
> will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
> can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>
> Peace,
>
> Chris
>
>
> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want to
>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>
>> B
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70235 is a reply to message #70232] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 20:59 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Neil,
I totally get where you are coming from, and you make some great points. For
the type of bands I mostly work with, this specific "we don't want
compression" phrase has become trendy thing to say, and it's derived from
the Electrical Audio/Albini/Tape Op scene. It's not a *bad* thing,
however... I don't know how familliar you are with that style... I have
never liked the sound of it too much. Drums are mid-rangy boxes, it isn't
punchy, and it's very two-dimensional, IMO. I will say that it does work for
a few bands, but I've heard *more* done that way that it doesn't do justice
for (again, IMO).
It's no different to me than when people think if they buy a finalizer or
some magic piece of gear, that they will then have 'quality' recordings. I
have had bands tell me, "we want the biggest, loudest recording you've ever
done - we want ours to stand out from your other stuff - oh, and we want no
compression". Quite silly now, ey?
rock on,
-Carl
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44b4500f$1@linux...
>
> Honestly - and I don't mean for this to come across in any
> belittling manner - but I don't see why you guys/gals get upset
> about this sort of thing... what's the big deal?
> Consider that:
>
> a.) At one time you were interested in this stuff too, and at
> some point SOMEONE must've helped you out - told you what was
> what, or clue'd you in just a little bit as to what they were
> doing. This is how I got into being a recordist - and many of
> us here play an instrument or sing or both... I assume that you
> didn't start playing an instrument as a result of going into
> engineeering, but the other way around; so what's wrong with
> giving a little of your expertise or experience? Telling
> someone the details of one or two or three things that they
> happen to ask about is not going to enable them to set up a
> studio & start stealing your business. In most cases, this
> isn't what they're after anyway, they're just interested like
> you were when you first started asking questions about
> recording & how certain things are done & certain sounds are
> achieved.
>
> b.) With regard to too much compression, not enough
> compression, no compression, nothing but a trackful of
> compressor noise-with compression applied to it... why not
> give the client what they want? Or at least what they THINK
> they want? How many of you are so busy that you couldn't take
> the time to tell the guy: "OK, i really don't think this is
> going to come across the way you're imagining it, but i'll do
> it, then i'll do a slightly different version for you to
> compare, so you can see what i'm talking about - how's that
> sound? You can pick whichever one you like better - it's up to
> you, of course." Who's going to say no to that? It'd take you
> not much time, off the clock, to do a slightly different
> version in most cases - then you're a hero if he likes it
> better, and you're at the very least a cool guy in his mind
> just for trying it even if he doesn't. You've also given
> yourself an ass-covering opportunity as i mentioned in a
> previous post.
>
> 3.) What if the band/artist is strapped for cash & they're just
> paranoid about "getting it right" the first time, so they don't
> incur extra hours on the clock? Maybe that's why they're being
> so specific about what they want - maybe they're wrong in the
> interpretation of what they want & how to actually get there,
> but then again, maybe they can't identify what's going on to
> cause the sounds they like in the CD they gave you a copy of &
> said: "I want to sound like THAT!". Take a little pity... try &
> work it out & define exactly what it is they're looking for...
> "Hey JimBob, what you're telling me you want to hear is
> completely different from that Hank Williams Jr. kinda sound,
> who's CD you played for me & whom you said was your main
> influence for writing this song: "Are you ready for some Ping-
> Pong?", are you sure you want me to break away from that & go
> with this mix that sounds like it's off the 2nd "Strange
> Advance" record? Let's just take a moment off the clock here &
> discuss this, because ultimately what's most important to me is
> that you leave here with a product that makes you happy."
>
> I dunno - I guess I think that as engineering/producing types
> we get a little cocky about what's right & what's not. Imagine
> how you'd feel if you went into record with someone else at the
> helm & they fought you on something? In that respect, what's
> the difference between you & the artist you're recording?
> None - except YOUR perception of their ability to know what
> sounds good or not - and don't forget, that perception may be
> right or it may be wrong. I think if a client has a "vision",
> you ought to fulfill it. If a client is insisting on a certain
> sound that you think is below your quality standards, think of
> how Dave Stewart & Annie Lennox recorded "Sweet Dreams" in an
> apartment on a 1/4-inch 8-track R2R at the height of the mega-
> studios with their sync'ed 2" Studers.... that song sold a few
> copies, as I recall.
>
> Anyway, I should shut up because now this is starting to sound
> like some kind of pompous lecture. Bottom line here - I'm with
> Gene... if someone's paying for your time, then they're paying
> for whatever you impart as a result of that time - you're not
> going to give the farm by being generous with your revelations
> of what you did - in fact, you might even get more work out of
> it - if you did something really cool, chances are greater that
> someone will try to work the same kind of magic & fail, than
> those of someone trying to work the same kind of magic &
> succeed. As for the clients wishes and whether you should give
> them what they want or not, I refer your imagination to Eugene
> Levy's car salesdude taliing to Chevy Chase in the
> original "Vacation":
>
> "I owe it to myself to tell you that if you're taking the whole
> tribe cross-country, the Wagon Queen Family Truckster is the
> way to go. You think you hate it now, but just wait until you
> drive it!"
>
> Bottom line - Clark Griswold didn't get what he wanted... don't
> give 'em what they'll think of as the audio equivalent of a
> "Family Truckster".
>
> Neil
> (bracing for the flames)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >Sounds like a Chicago/Electrical Audio/Albini wannabe. Tell them to go
> >there. I also really dig DJ's and also Sarah's response. !!!
> >
> >rock on,
> >-Carl
> >
> >
> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
> >>
> >> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
insistant
> >> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
> to
> >> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
> >>
> >> B
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70236 is a reply to message #70233] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 20:54 |
Chris Lang
Messages: 91
Registered: March 2007
|
Member |
|
|
Hi Jamie- cool, another Denver-Paris person.
Band name: His Beloved (www.hisbeloved.net)
Club: The Walnut Room
Engineer: Ron Gordon (ron@thewalnutroom.com)
Ron designed the layout of the room, and picked all of the gear.
The room and the mix are incredible. I would compare the sound
to the old Rainbow Music Hall or the current Fox Theater in
Boulder. It's that good; he's that good.
I cannot say enough about Ron. He is a pro's pro, and a
wonderful guy. I am trying to find ways to work with him
again. He is a perfect example of the answer to all of the
ranting in this particular thread: No smug attitude. No
patronization of the client. Just great sound.
Nice to meet you, Jamie-
Chris
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>Hey Chris, what's your band's name? What club was it, and what engineer?
>Just curious since I'm in Denver.
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>Chris Lang wrote:
>> Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>> "21" song every now and then!
>>
>> I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>
>> My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>> The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>> He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>> utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>> just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>
>> My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>> etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>> for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>> will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>> can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
to
>>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>
>>> B
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70237 is a reply to message #70232] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 21:02 |
Chris Lang
Messages: 91
Registered: March 2007
|
Member |
|
|
AMEN BROTHER!!!!!
For a bunch of cool and helpful people, the arrogance of some
of the posts in this thread really surprised me.
Hey, I'm living proof. I've gotten some great advice from a
lot of you, but I still can't mix. I can track now, though,
so I'm making progress! Look out man, if your business starts
shrinking it's because I'm taking over!! MUHAHAHAHA
Peace,
Chris
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Honestly - and I don't mean for this to come across in any
>belittling manner - but I don't see why you guys/gals get upset
>about this sort of thing... what's the big deal?
>Consider that:
>
>a.) At one time you were interested in this stuff too, and at
>some point SOMEONE must've helped you out - told you what was
>what, or clue'd you in just a little bit as to what they were
>doing. This is how I got into being a recordist - and many of
>us here play an instrument or sing or both... I assume that you
>didn't start playing an instrument as a result of going into
>engineeering, but the other way around; so what's wrong with
>giving a little of your expertise or experience? Telling
>someone the details of one or two or three things that they
>happen to ask about is not going to enable them to set up a
>studio & start stealing your business. In most cases, this
>isn't what they're after anyway, they're just interested like
>you were when you first started asking questions about
>recording & how certain things are done & certain sounds are
>achieved.
>
>b.) With regard to too much compression, not enough
>compression, no compression, nothing but a trackful of
>compressor noise-with compression applied to it... why not
>give the client what they want? Or at least what they THINK
>they want? How many of you are so busy that you couldn't take
>the time to tell the guy: "OK, i really don't think this is
>going to come across the way you're imagining it, but i'll do
>it, then i'll do a slightly different version for you to
>compare, so you can see what i'm talking about - how's that
>sound? You can pick whichever one you like better - it's up to
>you, of course." Who's going to say no to that? It'd take you
>not much time, off the clock, to do a slightly different
>version in most cases - then you're a hero if he likes it
>better, and you're at the very least a cool guy in his mind
>just for trying it even if he doesn't. You've also given
>yourself an ass-covering opportunity as i mentioned in a
>previous post.
>
>3.) What if the band/artist is strapped for cash & they're just
>paranoid about "getting it right" the first time, so they don't
>incur extra hours on the clock? Maybe that's why they're being
>so specific about what they want - maybe they're wrong in the
>interpretation of what they want & how to actually get there,
>but then again, maybe they can't identify what's going on to
>cause the sounds they like in the CD they gave you a copy of &
>said: "I want to sound like THAT!". Take a little pity... try &
>work it out & define exactly what it is they're looking for...
>"Hey JimBob, what you're telling me you want to hear is
>completely different from that Hank Williams Jr. kinda sound,
>who's CD you played for me & whom you said was your main
>influence for writing this song: "Are you ready for some Ping-
>Pong?", are you sure you want me to break away from that & go
>with this mix that sounds like it's off the 2nd "Strange
>Advance" record? Let's just take a moment off the clock here &
>discuss this, because ultimately what's most important to me is
>that you leave here with a product that makes you happy."
>
>I dunno - I guess I think that as engineering/producing types
>we get a little cocky about what's right & what's not. Imagine
>how you'd feel if you went into record with someone else at the
>helm & they fought you on something? In that respect, what's
>the difference between you & the artist you're recording?
>None - except YOUR perception of their ability to know what
>sounds good or not - and don't forget, that perception may be
>right or it may be wrong. I think if a client has a "vision",
>you ought to fulfill it. If a client is insisting on a certain
>sound that you think is below your quality standards, think of
>how Dave Stewart & Annie Lennox recorded "Sweet Dreams" in an
>apartment on a 1/4-inch 8-track R2R at the height of the mega-
>studios with their sync'ed 2" Studers.... that song sold a few
>copies, as I recall.
>
>Anyway, I should shut up because now this is starting to sound
>like some kind of pompous lecture. Bottom line here - I'm with
>Gene... if someone's paying for your time, then they're paying
>for whatever you impart as a result of that time - you're not
>going to give the farm by being generous with your revelations
>of what you did - in fact, you might even get more work out of
>it - if you did something really cool, chances are greater that
>someone will try to work the same kind of magic & fail, than
>those of someone trying to work the same kind of magic &
>succeed. As for the clients wishes and whether you should give
>them what they want or not, I refer your imagination to Eugene
>Levy's car salesdude taliing to Chevy Chase in the
>original "Vacation":
>
>"I owe it to myself to tell you that if you're taking the whole
>tribe cross-country, the Wagon Queen Family Truckster is the
>way to go. You think you hate it now, but just wait until you
>drive it!"
>
>Bottom line - Clark Griswold didn't get what he wanted... don't
>give 'em what they'll think of as the audio equivalent of a
>"Family Truckster".
>
>Neil
>(bracing for the flames)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>>Sounds like a Chicago/Electrical Audio/Albini wannabe. Tell them to go
>>there. I also really dig DJ's and also Sarah's response. !!!
>>
>>rock on,
>>-Carl
>>
>>
>>"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>>>
>>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
>to
>>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>
>>> B
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70241 is a reply to message #70232] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 21:32 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Neil,
In all seriousness, I have to go along with you. You're right (as is Gene)
IMHO.......and I'm not some legendary mixwizard.....and I've been in
situations like Brandon described, and like I described in my first answer
to his post.......and I've spent many many many hours of my own time
polishing turds until I felt like they were something I could let out of the
studio. I also learned a lot this way so I'm not sorry I did it, but to be
honest, Sarah's advice has been the best advice in many situations.....and
the client has been happiest when his wishes and thoughts were
acknowledged/validated while at the same time, ignored to the betterment of
the project.......and even the client admitted this after A/B'ing the mixes.
Regards,
Deej
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:44b4500f$1@linux...
>
> Honestly - and I don't mean for this to come across in any
> belittling manner - but I don't see why you guys/gals get upset
> about this sort of thing... what's the big deal?
> Consider that:
>
> a.) At one time you were interested in this stuff too, and at
> some point SOMEONE must've helped you out - told you what was
> what, or clue'd you in just a little bit as to what they were
> doing. This is how I got into being a recordist - and many of
> us here play an instrument or sing or both... I assume that you
> didn't start playing an instrument as a result of going into
> engineeering, but the other way around; so what's wrong with
> giving a little of your expertise or experience? Telling
> someone the details of one or two or three things that they
> happen to ask about is not going to enable them to set up a
> studio & start stealing your business. In most cases, this
> isn't what they're after anyway, they're just interested like
> you were when you first started asking questions about
> recording & how certain things are done & certain sounds are
> achieved.
>
> b.) With regard to too much compression, not enough
> compression, no compression, nothing but a trackful of
> compressor noise-with compression applied to it... why not
> give the client what they want? Or at least what they THINK
> they want? How many of you are so busy that you couldn't take
> the time to tell the guy: "OK, i really don't think this is
> going to come across the way you're imagining it, but i'll do
> it, then i'll do a slightly different version for you to
> compare, so you can see what i'm talking about - how's that
> sound? You can pick whichever one you like better - it's up to
> you, of course." Who's going to say no to that? It'd take you
> not much time, off the clock, to do a slightly different
> version in most cases - then you're a hero if he likes it
> better, and you're at the very least a cool guy in his mind
> just for trying it even if he doesn't. You've also given
> yourself an ass-covering opportunity as i mentioned in a
> previous post.
>
> 3.) What if the band/artist is strapped for cash & they're just
> paranoid about "getting it right" the first time, so they don't
> incur extra hours on the clock? Maybe that's why they're being
> so specific about what they want - maybe they're wrong in the
> interpretation of what they want & how to actually get there,
> but then again, maybe they can't identify what's going on to
> cause the sounds they like in the CD they gave you a copy of &
> said: "I want to sound like THAT!". Take a little pity... try &
> work it out & define exactly what it is they're looking for...
> "Hey JimBob, what you're telling me you want to hear is
> completely different from that Hank Williams Jr. kinda sound,
> who's CD you played for me & whom you said was your main
> influence for writing this song: "Are you ready for some Ping-
> Pong?", are you sure you want me to break away from that & go
> with this mix that sounds like it's off the 2nd "Strange
> Advance" record? Let's just take a moment off the clock here &
> discuss this, because ultimately what's most important to me is
> that you leave here with a product that makes you happy."
>
> I dunno - I guess I think that as engineering/producing types
> we get a little cocky about what's right & what's not. Imagine
> how you'd feel if you went into record with someone else at the
> helm & they fought you on something? In that respect, what's
> the difference between you & the artist you're recording?
> None - except YOUR perception of their ability to know what
> sounds good or not - and don't forget, that perception may be
> right or it may be wrong. I think if a client has a "vision",
> you ought to fulfill it. If a client is insisting on a certain
> sound that you think is below your quality standards, think of
> how Dave Stewart & Annie Lennox recorded "Sweet Dreams" in an
> apartment on a 1/4-inch 8-track R2R at the height of the mega-
> studios with their sync'ed 2" Studers.... that song sold a few
> copies, as I recall.
>
> Anyway, I should shut up because now this is starting to sound
> like some kind of pompous lecture. Bottom line here - I'm with
> Gene... if someone's paying for your time, then they're paying
> for whatever you impart as a result of that time - you're not
> going to give the farm by being generous with your revelations
> of what you did - in fact, you might even get more work out of
> it - if you did something really cool, chances are greater that
> someone will try to work the same kind of magic & fail, than
> those of someone trying to work the same kind of magic &
> succeed. As for the clients wishes and whether you should give
> them what they want or not, I refer your imagination to Eugene
> Levy's car salesdude taliing to Chevy Chase in the
> original "Vacation":
>
> "I owe it to myself to tell you that if you're taking the whole
> tribe cross-country, the Wagon Queen Family Truckster is the
> way to go. You think you hate it now, but just wait until you
> drive it!"
>
> Bottom line - Clark Griswold didn't get what he wanted... don't
> give 'em what they'll think of as the audio equivalent of a
> "Family Truckster".
>
> Neil
> (bracing for the flames)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> >Sounds like a Chicago/Electrical Audio/Albini wannabe. Tell them to go
> >there. I also really dig DJ's and also Sarah's response. !!!
> >
> >rock on,
> >-Carl
> >
> >
> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
> >>
> >> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
insistant
> >> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
> to
> >> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
> >>
> >> B
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70243 is a reply to message #70222] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 22:49 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Do you bother to tell them that the CIA has a large file on your system, and
that NORAD has a killer satellite hovering over your place in case they ever
have to take it out?
James
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I just show them Frankencomp. After they get over the shock of seeing
>Frankencomp I hand them a copy of the session methodology. Then tell them
>that the reason it the way it does is because if everything id done exactly
>right, that it is possible to configure two computers in a way that makes
>the digital information sound like it's not being recorded on a computer
at
>all. They are usually so totally bewildered by that time that they get
the
>thousand yard stare, their eyes become glassy and fixed and they become
meek
>and submissive. I can sometimes even get them to go pick up my laundry and
>go grocvery shopping for me. Sorta' like feeding them a digital dose of
>Rohypnol.
>
>;o)
>
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:44b3d8eb$1@linux...
>>
>> I LOVE it! HA. I'm going to build one of those for the studio.
>> Rod
>> "Dubya Mark Wilson" <mark.xspam@avidrecording.com> wrote:
>> >I know you guys will laugh at this ploy but (and perhaps others will
>employ
>>
>> >my ploy) but when I was heavy on the road doing guitar I used to get
>> >post-show exams on "how do you get should great tone, sounds, blah blah."
>>
>> >Because so few could really grasp that great guitar tone starts in your
>> head
>> >and can pretty much happen with most any guitar/amp setup, I developed
>> >several more "believable" answers. So I built a small flat black box
>with
>> a
>> >wire coming out of it, wood and metal with rivets here and there and
a
>made
>>
>> >up model number on placard. Wire went into my rack and disappeared into
>> a
>> >darkened recess. It was just easier to tell guys that the black box
was
>>
>> >where the sound was really happening. Typical dialogue:
>> >
>> >Q: Great tone... really cut it's own space in the show... whadya got
>going
>>
>> >here
>> >
>> >A: Well this stuff is really pretty ordinary, Old Roland GP-100, a
>Rocktron
>>
>> >Type IIc for minimizing noise from the dirty patches out of the JMP-1,
>old
>>
>> >Rockman rackmount guitar pre for some of the clean stuff, I keep this
old
>>
>> >Quadraverb for some patches that really do it for me - the noise doesn't
>>
>> >bother me much, and this guy here by DMC is where all my routing takes
>> >place, and I output a stereo pair into this Ibanez SDR1000 which goes
>> >directly to the 50/50 power amp... and these are just knock-offs of the
>> old
>> >Pacific 1x12" cabs. I had a guy copy them and build them from a slightly
>>
>> >denser woods... and that's pretty much it.
>> >
>> >Q: But where are getting that tone of that tune (XYZ)?
>> >
>> >A: That was the Rockman with some verb off the GP-100.
>> >
>> >Q: Your cables must all be oxygen free or something, right?
>> >
>> >A: Nah... I gotta mix of Canare quad and belden co-ax in there
>> >
>> >Q: What kinda tubes in the power amp?
>> >
>> >A: Ahhh... GT's, 5 rateds... nothing special there.
>> >
>> >Q: What's this thing (black box) doing?
>> >
>> >A: Some guy in California built that for me and that I don't really
>> >couldn't tell you what it does or how it works but without it, my tone
>> >pretty much just isn't there."
>> >
>> >Q: Where can I get one?
>> >
>> >And they are always so disappointed to learn that the builder is no
>longer
>>
>> >in business.
>> >
>> >W.
>> >
>> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b27b39$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
>insistant
>> >> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
>> to
>> >> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>> >>
>> >> B
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70244 is a reply to message #70236] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 22:55 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Chris,
Nice to meet you, too!
I haven't played the Walnut room but I've heard some bands there and
done a shoot there. Good to hear your recommendation about Ron and his
system, it's great when someone does it right.
Cheers,
-Jamie
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
Chris Lang wrote:
> Hi Jamie- cool, another Denver-Paris person.
>
> Band name: His Beloved (www.hisbeloved.net)
>
> Club: The Walnut Room
>
> Engineer: Ron Gordon (ron@thewalnutroom.com)
>
> Ron designed the layout of the room, and picked all of the gear.
>
> The room and the mix are incredible. I would compare the sound
> to the old Rainbow Music Hall or the current Fox Theater in
> Boulder. It's that good; he's that good.
>
> I cannot say enough about Ron. He is a pro's pro, and a
> wonderful guy. I am trying to find ways to work with him
> again. He is a perfect example of the answer to all of the
> ranting in this particular thread: No smug attitude. No
> patronization of the client. Just great sound.
>
> Nice to meet you, Jamie-
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>> Hey Chris, what's your band's name? What club was it, and what engineer?
>
>> Just curious since I'm in Denver.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>
>> Chris Lang wrote:
>>> Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>> "21" song every now and then!
>>>
>>> I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>>
>>> My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>> The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>> He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>> utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>> just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>>
>>> My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>> etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>> for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>> will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>> can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> "brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>> How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is insistant
>>>> on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
> to
>>>> know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>>
>>>> B
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70249 is a reply to message #70213] |
Tue, 11 July 2006 23:22 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Depends man.. didja do it in doubly?
AA
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pjq6b2lh1bqk6qa1kfff5o6h8rejui1fe0@4ax.com...
> or his girlfriend/manager will call demanding their money
> back...that's why you get them to sign a waiver on their mix.
>
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:22:30 -0600, "DJ"
> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>
>>I
>>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>>doing
>>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>>every
>>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they
>>> were
>>> paying I would indulge them.
>>
>>What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank amateur
>>and
>>is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix
>>will
>>leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to
>>mixes
>>that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will sound
>>wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
>>everyone that it is your fault.
>>
>>
>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
>>>
>>> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were.
>>> I
>>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>>doing
>>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>>every
>>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they
>>> were
>>> paying I would indulge them.
>>> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>>> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>>> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>>> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>>> Getting close to completion.
>>> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>>> Lots of stuff to figure out.
>>>
>>> Take care all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>> >"21" song every now and then!
>>> >
>>> >I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>> >
>>> >My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>> >The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>> >He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>> >utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>> >just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>> >
>>> >My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>> >etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>> >for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>> >will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>> >can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>> >
>>> >Peace,
>>> >
>>> >Chris
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
>>insistant
>>> >>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
>>> >>to
>>> >>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>> >>
>>> >>B
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: How do you handle it when....? [message #70252 is a reply to message #70249] |
Wed, 12 July 2006 01:58 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
to be more accurate the mix was 99% done when he says "i've got a
friend in florida that will mix it for free" sp his girlfriend/manager
thought they shouldn't have to pay. the time log proved my point and
he told her to shut the eff up and drop it.
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:22:50 -0500, "Aaron Allen"
<nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Depends man.. didja do it in doubly?
>AA
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:pjq6b2lh1bqk6qa1kfff5o6h8rejui1fe0@4ax.com...
>> or his girlfriend/manager will call demanding their money
>> back...that's why you get them to sign a waiver on their mix.
>>
>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:22:30 -0600, "DJ"
>> <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I
>>>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>>>doing
>>>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>>>every
>>>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they
>>>> were
>>>> paying I would indulge them.
>>>
>>>What I hate about these situations is that if this guy is a rank amateur
>>>and
>>>is clueless, he's going to insist on trying to run the show and the mix
>>>will
>>>leave your studio sounding fine to him, but then he will compare it to
>>>mixes
>>>that have been properly done with compression and his/your mix will sound
>>>wimpy by comparison and then he will run around all over town telling
>>>everyone that it is your fault.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Brandon" <a@a.com> wrote in message news:44b2a77d@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Just wanted to get an idea of what the general population thoughts were.
>>>> I
>>>> wouldn't really have a problem explaining what I am doing and why I am
>>>doing
>>>> it as long they understand it is on their dime and aren't fighting me
>>>every
>>>> step of the way. But even if they were fighting me...as long as they
>>>> were
>>>> paying I would indulge them.
>>>> Hey Chris..Hope things are going good with you!
>>>> I still listen to it from time to time as well.
>>>> I haven't been doing much songwriting lately..just
>>>> been focusing on rebuilding my studio/mixing enviroment.
>>>> Getting close to completion.
>>>> Started using Cubase in conjunction with PARIS.
>>>> Lots of stuff to figure out.
>>>>
>>>> Take care all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris Lang" <yo@yo.yo> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >Hey Brandon- hope everything is cool! I still listen to that
>>>> >"21" song every now and then!
>>>> >
>>>> >I would just give them what they want, in both cases.
>>>> >
>>>> >My band just played at a Denver club, and recorded the gig.
>>>> >The sound guy had good equipment, but nothing real high-end.
>>>> >He proceded to do an absolutely AWESOME and artistic job of
>>>> >utilizing that gear, and the sound, both live and on disk, is
>>>> >just amazing. Even the sound board mix is fabulous.
>>>> >
>>>> >My point is that any amount of info you share on gear, settings,
>>>> >etc, will not help the client become a pro. They might go away
>>>> >for a while, thinking that they can do it themselves, but they
>>>> >will return when they realize that if it sounds good, and you
>>>> >can make it sound good, then it's worth it to hire you.
>>>> >
>>>> >Peace,
>>>> >
>>>> >Chris
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >"brandon" <a@a.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>How do you guys and gals handle it when you get a client who is
>>>insistant
>>>> >>on very little or no compression? How do you handle it when they want
>>>> >>to
>>>> >>know everything about the signal chain?(hence your mixing secrets)
>>>> >>
>>>> >>B
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Nov 06 12:42:04 PST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.04694 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
