Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Anyone game for some drum editing?
| Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73125] |
Tue, 26 September 2006 14:16  |
Dan B
Messages: 54
Registered: June 2005
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Member |
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Hi,
I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in relation
to multi-track drum editing.
Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see what
editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work remotely
on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks to
a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the performances
are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps using
Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I suspect
the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off throughout
most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than a straight
100% iterative quanitze.
The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and what
your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you to
complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall completion).
Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
in obtaining a professional product.
Many thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Daniel
daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73127 is a reply to message #73125] |
Tue, 26 September 2006 15:21  |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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$0.10 per edit per track per song
;-)
Don
ps. I can do it, and do it well but it's not one of my favorite things to
do...and I'm a drummer!
"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:451998bd$1@linux...
>
> Hi,
> I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in
> relation
> to multi-track drum editing.
> Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see what
> editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
> remotely
> on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
> During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks to
> a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the
> performances
> are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
> using
> Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I
> suspect
> the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off
> throughout
> most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
> will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than a
> straight
> 100% iterative quanitze.
> The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
> but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
> and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
> 1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
> I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
> might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
> what
> your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
> also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you to
> complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
> completion).
>
> Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
> is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
> in obtaining a professional product.
> Many thanks in advance.
> Kind regards,
> Daniel
> daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73130 is a reply to message #73125] |
Tue, 26 September 2006 18:20 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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If you've never done this, let me offer a big gotcha I've run into before
you blow a wad of cash on edits.
If the other tracks are playing to these 'grooves', you'll be redoing them
too. Reason? Once you move the drums around the other parts will need to
follow it because that timing reference is now gone.
However, if you played the other guys in on the click, that's a good thing.
AA
"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:451998bd$1@linux...
>
> Hi,
> I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in
> relation
> to multi-track drum editing.
> Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see what
> editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
> remotely
> on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
> During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks to
> a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the
> performances
> are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
> using
> Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I
> suspect
> the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off
> throughout
> most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
> will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than a
> straight
> 100% iterative quanitze.
> The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
> but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
> and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
> 1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
> I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
> might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
> what
> your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
> also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you to
> complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
> completion).
>
> Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
> is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
> in obtaining a professional product.
> Many thanks in advance.
> Kind regards,
> Daniel
> daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73133 is a reply to message #73125] |
Tue, 26 September 2006 19:56 |
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Funny... I'm in the midst of a project in which I'm having to do much drum
editing, sometimes with a click, sometimes without. There were a few tunes
that needed so much repair that I convinced them to re-record them. I almost
had them convinced to use a real studio drummer, but alas, they decided that
a band is a band, and the old drummer came back. He did better, but he's
still not a great studio player. There are so many little things that go
into making what I consider to be a studio quality drum performance: Good,
consistant time; good consistant tone; a solid groove that makes the other
musicians want to play their best; good taste when it comes to where and
when to play fills. I can fix timing, although sometimes the life of the
groove suffers, and I can fix the occasional less than stellar snare or kick
drum hit, but if I've learned nothing else in 19 years of doing this for
a living it's this: The best money anyone can spend on a project - maybe
even more important than the $$$ spent on the studio - is to hire the very
best studio drummer you can find!
All that said, my first question would be - Is it possible to hire a better
drum to come in and replace the existing drums? My guess is that it wouldn't
be more expensive than hiring someone to edit the drums you already have.
I'd be happy to do it for you, but I charge $75 per hour and drum editing
is painstaking work...
Good luck!
Gantt
"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in relation
>to multi-track drum editing.
>Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see what
>editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work remotely
>on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks to
>a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the performances
>are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
using
>Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I suspect
>the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off throughout
>most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than a
straight
>100% iterative quanitze.
>The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
>and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
>might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and what
>your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
>also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you to
>complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
completion).
>
>Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
>is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>in obtaining a professional product.
>Many thanks in advance.
>Kind regards,
>Daniel
>daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73134 is a reply to message #73133] |
Tue, 26 September 2006 20:09 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
|
|
You & Aaron both make some good points... these guys could
EASILY spend more $$$ in edits than on re-tracking the whole
thing - and they still may have to retrack the "other than
drums" parts.
These guys are picky & want to do it right, but can't nail it
themselves? Here's my advice in that scenario, FWTFIW:
1.) get a MIDI track going with a rudimentary programmed drum
track for the rest of the guys to play with.
2.) once the basic rhythm tracks are done, have the drummer
play along with these, but mute the MIDI drums.
3.) Have someone who's got either PT with Beat Detective - or
something like CubaseV3 so they can create audio slices from
the hitpoints - edit the drummer's tracks to the MIDI groove.
They don't have to nail everything down perfectly locked if you
want it to swing a little.
In this case, I think that'd be the best way to go... and
probably the least expensive, as well. Either way, you're
gonna have to retrack the other instruments if you edit the
drums - if theyr'e as off as much & as often as you say they
are.
Neil
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Funny... I'm in the midst of a project in which I'm having to do much drum
>editing, sometimes with a click, sometimes without. There were a few tunes
>that needed so much repair that I convinced them to re-record them. I almost
>had them convinced to use a real studio drummer, but alas, they decided
that
>a band is a band, and the old drummer came back. He did better, but he's
>still not a great studio player. There are so many little things that go
>into making what I consider to be a studio quality drum performance: Good,
>consistant time; good consistant tone; a solid groove that makes the other
>musicians want to play their best; good taste when it comes to where and
>when to play fills. I can fix timing, although sometimes the life of the
>groove suffers, and I can fix the occasional less than stellar snare or
kick
>drum hit, but if I've learned nothing else in 19 years of doing this for
>a living it's this: The best money anyone can spend on a project - maybe
>even more important than the $$$ spent on the studio - is to hire the very
>best studio drummer you can find!
>
>All that said, my first question would be - Is it possible to hire a better
>drum to come in and replace the existing drums? My guess is that it wouldn't
>be more expensive than hiring someone to edit the drums you already have.
> I'd be happy to do it for you, but I charge $75 per hour and drum editing
>is painstaking work...
>
>Good luck!
>
>Gantt
>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in relation
>>to multi-track drum editing.
>>Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see what
>>editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
remotely
>>on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>>During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks
to
>>a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the performances
>>are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
>using
>>Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I suspect
>>the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off throughout
>>most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>>will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than a
>straight
>>100% iterative quanitze.
>>The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>>but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
>>and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>>1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>>I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
>>might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
what
>>your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
>>also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you to
>>complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
>completion).
>>
>>Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
>>is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>>in obtaining a professional product.
>>Many thanks in advance.
>>Kind regards,
>>Daniel
>>daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
>
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73138 is a reply to message #73134] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 01:47 |
Dan B
Messages: 54
Registered: June 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Thanks for the responses guys. Fortunately the only thing that's been tracked
apart from drums is the vocals and some percussion, both of which were recorded
to the click (although there may have been some drums in the monitor mix).
I'm holding back on everything else because the groove needs to sit around
the drums.
Listening back again, the drum tracks aren't awful, but their not rock solid
(enough). I suspect my problems with the editing are more to do with my ineptitude
as a drum editor than the size of the task. I suspect someone experienced
with ProTools BeatMapper or Cubase SX3 could do a pretty speedy job.
That said, I'm also looking into getting the parts re-drummed by a session
pro, which may well be cheaper and produce better results (annoyingly I've
got kind of attached to the recorded sound of the existing tracks...).
I'm just costing out options at the moment, so I'll let you all know how
it pans out.
Thanks,
Dan
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>You & Aaron both make some good points... these guys could
>EASILY spend more $$$ in edits than on re-tracking the whole
>thing - and they still may have to retrack the "other than
>drums" parts.
>
>These guys are picky & want to do it right, but can't nail it
>themselves? Here's my advice in that scenario, FWTFIW:
>
>1.) get a MIDI track going with a rudimentary programmed drum
>track for the rest of the guys to play with.
>2.) once the basic rhythm tracks are done, have the drummer
>play along with these, but mute the MIDI drums.
>3.) Have someone who's got either PT with Beat Detective - or
>something like CubaseV3 so they can create audio slices from
>the hitpoints - edit the drummer's tracks to the MIDI groove.
>They don't have to nail everything down perfectly locked if you
>want it to swing a little.
>
>In this case, I think that'd be the best way to go... and
>probably the least expensive, as well. Either way, you're
>gonna have to retrack the other instruments if you edit the
>drums - if theyr'e as off as much & as often as you say they
>are.
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>Funny... I'm in the midst of a project in which I'm having to do much drum
>>editing, sometimes with a click, sometimes without. There were a few tunes
>>that needed so much repair that I convinced them to re-record them. I
almost
>>had them convinced to use a real studio drummer, but alas, they decided
>that
>>a band is a band, and the old drummer came back. He did better, but he's
>>still not a great studio player. There are so many little things that
go
>>into making what I consider to be a studio quality drum performance: Good,
>>consistant time; good consistant tone; a solid groove that makes the
other
>>musicians want to play their best; good taste when it comes to where and
>>when to play fills. I can fix timing, although sometimes the life of the
>>groove suffers, and I can fix the occasional less than stellar snare or
>kick
>>drum hit, but if I've learned nothing else in 19 years of doing this for
>>a living it's this: The best money anyone can spend on a project - maybe
>>even more important than the $$$ spent on the studio - is to hire the very
>>best studio drummer you can find!
>>
>>All that said, my first question would be - Is it possible to hire a better
>>drum to come in and replace the existing drums? My guess is that it wouldn't
>>be more expensive than hiring someone to edit the drums you already have.
>> I'd be happy to do it for you, but I charge $75 per hour and drum editing
>>is painstaking work...
>>
>>Good luck!
>>
>>Gantt
>>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in relation
>>>to multi-track drum editing.
>>>Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see
what
>>>editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
>remotely
>>>on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>>>During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks
>to
>>>a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the performances
>>>are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
>>using
>>>Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I suspect
>>>the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off throughout
>>>most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>>>will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than
a
>>straight
>>>100% iterative quanitze.
>>>The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>>>but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
>>>and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>>>1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>>>I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
>>>might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
>what
>>>your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
>>>also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you
to
>>>complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
>>completion).
>>>
>>>Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
>>>is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>>>in obtaining a professional product.
>>>Many thanks in advance.
>>>Kind regards,
>>>Daniel
>>>daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
>>
>
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73139 is a reply to message #73127] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 02:00 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
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|
"and I'm a drummer"...and you seemed so normal...wow...
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:21:54 -0400, "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>$0.10 per edit per track per song
>
>;-)
>
>Don
>
>ps. I can do it, and do it well but it's not one of my favorite things to
>do...and I'm a drummer!
>
>
>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:451998bd$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi,
>> I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in
>> relation
>> to multi-track drum editing.
>> Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see what
>> editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
>> remotely
>> on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>> During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks to
>> a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the
>> performances
>> are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
>> using
>> Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I
>> suspect
>> the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off
>> throughout
>> most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>> will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than a
>> straight
>> 100% iterative quanitze.
>> The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>> but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
>> and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>> 1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>> I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer that
>> might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
>> what
>> your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It would
>> also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you to
>> complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
>> completion).
>>
>> Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
>> is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>> in obtaining a professional product.
>> Many thanks in advance.
>> Kind regards,
>> Daniel
>> daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
>
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| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73143 is a reply to message #73138] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 05:59 |
Nil
Messages: 245
Registered: March 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dan, just curious:
a.) How many tracks are the drums themselves on?
b.) How did the singer record vocals to the drums only (i.e.:
with no pitch reference from any instruments)?
Not that one question has anything to do with the other, but I
was just wondering.
Neil
"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks for the responses guys. Fortunately the only thing that's been tracked
>apart from drums is the vocals and some percussion, both of which were recorded
>to the click (although there may have been some drums in the monitor mix).
>I'm holding back on everything else because the groove needs to sit around
>the drums.
>Listening back again, the drum tracks aren't awful, but their not rock solid
>(enough). I suspect my problems with the editing are more to do with my
ineptitude
>as a drum editor than the size of the task. I suspect someone experienced
>with ProTools BeatMapper or Cubase SX3 could do a pretty speedy job.
>That said, I'm also looking into getting the parts re-drummed by a session
>pro, which may well be cheaper and produce better results (annoyingly I've
>got kind of attached to the recorded sound of the existing tracks...).
>I'm just costing out options at the moment, so I'll let you all know how
>it pans out.
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>You & Aaron both make some good points... these guys could
>>EASILY spend more $$$ in edits than on re-tracking the whole
>>thing - and they still may have to retrack the "other than
>>drums" parts.
>>
>>These guys are picky & want to do it right, but can't nail it
>>themselves? Here's my advice in that scenario, FWTFIW:
>>
>>1.) get a MIDI track going with a rudimentary programmed drum
>>track for the rest of the guys to play with.
>>2.) once the basic rhythm tracks are done, have the drummer
>>play along with these, but mute the MIDI drums.
>>3.) Have someone who's got either PT with Beat Detective - or
>>something like CubaseV3 so they can create audio slices from
>>the hitpoints - edit the drummer's tracks to the MIDI groove.
>>They don't have to nail everything down perfectly locked if you
>>want it to swing a little.
>>
>>In this case, I think that'd be the best way to go... and
>>probably the least expensive, as well. Either way, you're
>>gonna have to retrack the other instruments if you edit the
>>drums - if theyr'e as off as much & as often as you say they
>>are.
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>Funny... I'm in the midst of a project in which I'm having to do much
drum
>>>editing, sometimes with a click, sometimes without. There were a few
tunes
>>>that needed so much repair that I convinced them to re-record them. I
>almost
>>>had them convinced to use a real studio drummer, but alas, they decided
>>that
>>>a band is a band, and the old drummer came back. He did better, but
he's
>>>still not a great studio player. There are so many little things that
>go
>>>into making what I consider to be a studio quality drum performance:
Good,
>>>consistant time; good consistant tone; a solid groove that makes the
>other
>>>musicians want to play their best; good taste when it comes to where
and
>>>when to play fills. I can fix timing, although sometimes the life of
the
>>>groove suffers, and I can fix the occasional less than stellar snare or
>>kick
>>>drum hit, but if I've learned nothing else in 19 years of doing this
for
>>>a living it's this: The best money anyone can spend on a project - maybe
>>>even more important than the $$$ spent on the studio - is to hire the
very
>>>best studio drummer you can find!
>>>
>>>All that said, my first question would be - Is it possible to hire a
better
>>>drum to come in and replace the existing drums? My guess is that it wouldn't
>>>be more expensive than hiring someone to edit the drums you already have.
>>> I'd be happy to do it for you, but I charge $75 per hour and drum editing
>>>is painstaking work...
>>>
>>>Good luck!
>>>
>>>Gantt
>>>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in
relation
>>>>to multi-track drum editing.
>>>>Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see
>what
>>>>editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
>>remotely
>>>>on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>>>>During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks
>>to
>>>>a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the performances
>>>>are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
>>>using
>>>>Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I suspect
>>>>the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off
throughout
>>>>most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>>>>will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than
>a
>>>straight
>>>>100% iterative quanitze.
>>>>The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>>>>but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz / world
>>>>and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>>>>1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>>>>I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer
that
>>>>might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
>>what
>>>>your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It
would
>>>>also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you
>to
>>>>complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
>>>completion).
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the budget
>>>>is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>>>>in obtaining a professional product.
>>>>Many thanks in advance.
>>>>Kind regards,
>>>>Daniel
>>>>daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73150 is a reply to message #73143] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 09:38 |
John [1]
Messages: 2229
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Quality
Price
Time
Pick 2
I love that he's a perfectionist with no money. Brilliant. Should be no
shortage of people ready to take this project.
"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>Dan, just curious:
>
>a.) How many tracks are the drums themselves on?
>b.) How did the singer record vocals to the drums only (i.e.:
>with no pitch reference from any instruments)?
>
>Not that one question has anything to do with the other, but I
>was just wondering.
>
>Neil
>
>
>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks for the responses guys. Fortunately the only thing that's been tracked
>>apart from drums is the vocals and some percussion, both of which were
recorded
>>to the click (although there may have been some drums in the monitor mix).
>>I'm holding back on everything else because the groove needs to sit around
>>the drums.
>>Listening back again, the drum tracks aren't awful, but their not rock
solid
>>(enough). I suspect my problems with the editing are more to do with my
>ineptitude
>>as a drum editor than the size of the task. I suspect someone experienced
>>with ProTools BeatMapper or Cubase SX3 could do a pretty speedy job.
>>That said, I'm also looking into getting the parts re-drummed by a session
>>pro, which may well be cheaper and produce better results (annoyingly I've
>>got kind of attached to the recorded sound of the existing tracks...).
>>I'm just costing out options at the moment, so I'll let you all know how
>>it pans out.
>>Thanks,
>>Dan
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>You & Aaron both make some good points... these guys could
>>>EASILY spend more $$$ in edits than on re-tracking the whole
>>>thing - and they still may have to retrack the "other than
>>>drums" parts.
>>>
>>>These guys are picky & want to do it right, but can't nail it
>>>themselves? Here's my advice in that scenario, FWTFIW:
>>>
>>>1.) get a MIDI track going with a rudimentary programmed drum
>>>track for the rest of the guys to play with.
>>>2.) once the basic rhythm tracks are done, have the drummer
>>>play along with these, but mute the MIDI drums.
>>>3.) Have someone who's got either PT with Beat Detective - or
>>>something like CubaseV3 so they can create audio slices from
>>>the hitpoints - edit the drummer's tracks to the MIDI groove.
>>>They don't have to nail everything down perfectly locked if you
>>>want it to swing a little.
>>>
>>>In this case, I think that'd be the best way to go... and
>>>probably the least expensive, as well. Either way, you're
>>>gonna have to retrack the other instruments if you edit the
>>>drums - if theyr'e as off as much & as often as you say they
>>>are.
>>>
>>>Neil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Funny... I'm in the midst of a project in which I'm having to do much
>drum
>>>>editing, sometimes with a click, sometimes without. There were a few
>tunes
>>>>that needed so much repair that I convinced them to re-record them.
I
>>almost
>>>>had them convinced to use a real studio drummer, but alas, they decided
>>>that
>>>>a band is a band, and the old drummer came back. He did better, but
>he's
>>>>still not a great studio player. There are so many little things that
>>go
>>>>into making what I consider to be a studio quality drum performance:
>Good,
>>>>consistant time; good consistant tone; a solid groove that makes the
>>other
>>>>musicians want to play their best; good taste when it comes to where
>and
>>>>when to play fills. I can fix timing, although sometimes the life of
>the
>>>>groove suffers, and I can fix the occasional less than stellar snare
or
>>>kick
>>>>drum hit, but if I've learned nothing else in 19 years of doing this
>for
>>>>a living it's this: The best money anyone can spend on a project - maybe
>>>>even more important than the $$$ spent on the studio - is to hire the
>very
>>>>best studio drummer you can find!
>>>>
>>>>All that said, my first question would be - Is it possible to hire a
>better
>>>>drum to come in and replace the existing drums? My guess is that it
wouldn't
>>>>be more expensive than hiring someone to edit the drums you already have.
>>>> I'd be happy to do it for you, but I charge $75 per hour and drum editing
>>>>is painstaking work...
>>>>
>>>>Good luck!
>>>>
>>>>Gantt
>>>>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in
>relation
>>>>>to multi-track drum editing.
>>>>>Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see
>>what
>>>>>editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
>>>remotely
>>>>>on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>>>>>During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks
>>>to
>>>>>a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the
performances
>>>>>are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
>>>>using
>>>>>Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I
suspect
>>>>>the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off
>throughout
>>>>>most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>>>>>will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than
>>a
>>>>straight
>>>>>100% iterative quanitze.
>>>>>The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>>>>>but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz /
world
>>>>>and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>>>>>1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>>>>>I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer
>that
>>>>>might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be and
>>>what
>>>>>your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It
>would
>>>>>also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you
>>to
>>>>>complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
>>>>completion).
>>>>>
>>>>>Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the
budget
>>>>>is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>>>>>in obtaining a professional product.
>>>>>Many thanks in advance.
>>>>>Kind regards,
>>>>>Daniel
>>>>>daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Anyone game for some drum editing? [message #73152 is a reply to message #73150] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 11:58 |
Dan B
Messages: 54
Registered: June 2005
|
Member |
|
|
Lol!
I think we're heading towards re-recording the drums (with a session drummer).
Probably easier and much better results! I guess we went with option 1!
Neil - drums are recorded across 12 channels (though probably unnecessary
to use them all). Not the greatest selection of mics, but that's the extent
of the mic cupboard:
AKG D112 inside Kick
Shure SM57 outside Kick (poorly positioned, however!)
Shure SM57 Snare top
Shure SM57 Snare bottom
2 x Studio Projects C4s as XY stereo overheads
AKG C1000s Ride
AKG C1000s Crash
AT4033a Hi Hat
AKG C418 Hi Tom
AKG C418 Mid Tom
AKG C418 Low Tom
As for qu 2: Guitar guitar recorded to a click; then guide vocals; then drums.
Then we''ll re-record everything (drums apart). A little long winded, but
getting the band in the same room together at the same time proved impossible.
Fortunately not a band politics issue - more a schedule thing!
Best wishes,
Dan
"John" <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>Quality
>Price
>Time
>
>Pick 2
>
>I love that he's a perfectionist with no money. Brilliant. Should be no
>shortage of people ready to take this project.
>
>"Neil" <IUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>Dan, just curious:
>>
>>a.) How many tracks are the drums themselves on?
>>b.) How did the singer record vocals to the drums only (i.e.:
>>with no pitch reference from any instruments)?
>>
>>Not that one question has anything to do with the other, but I
>>was just wondering.
>>
>>Neil
>>
>>
>>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Thanks for the responses guys. Fortunately the only thing that's been
tracked
>>>apart from drums is the vocals and some percussion, both of which were
>recorded
>>>to the click (although there may have been some drums in the monitor mix).
>>>I'm holding back on everything else because the groove needs to sit around
>>>the drums.
>>>Listening back again, the drum tracks aren't awful, but their not rock
>solid
>>>(enough). I suspect my problems with the editing are more to do with my
>>ineptitude
>>>as a drum editor than the size of the task. I suspect someone experienced
>>>with ProTools BeatMapper or Cubase SX3 could do a pretty speedy job.
>>>That said, I'm also looking into getting the parts re-drummed by a session
>>>pro, which may well be cheaper and produce better results (annoyingly
I've
>>>got kind of attached to the recorded sound of the existing tracks...).
>
>>>I'm just costing out options at the moment, so I'll let you all know how
>>>it pans out.
>>>Thanks,
>>>Dan
>>>
>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>You & Aaron both make some good points... these guys could
>>>>EASILY spend more $$$ in edits than on re-tracking the whole
>>>>thing - and they still may have to retrack the "other than
>>>>drums" parts.
>>>>
>>>>These guys are picky & want to do it right, but can't nail it
>>>>themselves? Here's my advice in that scenario, FWTFIW:
>>>>
>>>>1.) get a MIDI track going with a rudimentary programmed drum
>>>>track for the rest of the guys to play with.
>>>>2.) once the basic rhythm tracks are done, have the drummer
>>>>play along with these, but mute the MIDI drums.
>>>>3.) Have someone who's got either PT with Beat Detective - or
>>>>something like CubaseV3 so they can create audio slices from
>>>>the hitpoints - edit the drummer's tracks to the MIDI groove.
>>>>They don't have to nail everything down perfectly locked if you
>>>>want it to swing a little.
>>>>
>>>>In this case, I think that'd be the best way to go... and
>>>>probably the least expensive, as well. Either way, you're
>>>>gonna have to retrack the other instruments if you edit the
>>>>drums - if theyr'e as off as much & as often as you say they
>>>>are.
>>>>
>>>>Neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Funny... I'm in the midst of a project in which I'm having to do much
>>drum
>>>>>editing, sometimes with a click, sometimes without. There were a few
>>tunes
>>>>>that needed so much repair that I convinced them to re-record them.
>I
>>>almost
>>>>>had them convinced to use a real studio drummer, but alas, they decided
>>>>that
>>>>>a band is a band, and the old drummer came back. He did better, but
>>he's
>>>>>still not a great studio player. There are so many little things that
>>>go
>>>>>into making what I consider to be a studio quality drum performance:
>
>>Good,
>>>>>consistant time; good consistant tone; a solid groove that makes the
>>>other
>>>>>musicians want to play their best; good taste when it comes to where
>>and
>>>>>when to play fills. I can fix timing, although sometimes the life of
>>the
>>>>>groove suffers, and I can fix the occasional less than stellar snare
>or
>>>>kick
>>>>>drum hit, but if I've learned nothing else in 19 years of doing this
>>for
>>>>>a living it's this: The best money anyone can spend on a project -
maybe
>>>>>even more important than the $$$ spent on the studio - is to hire the
>>very
>>>>>best studio drummer you can find!
>>>>>
>>>>>All that said, my first question would be - Is it possible to hire
a
>>better
>>>>>drum to come in and replace the existing drums? My guess is that it
>wouldn't
>>>>>be more expensive than hiring someone to edit the drums you already
have.
>>>>> I'd be happy to do it for you, but I charge $75 per hour and drum editing
>>>>>is painstaking work...
>>>>>
>>>>>Good luck!
>>>>>
>>>>>Gantt
>>>>>"dan b" <daniel_burneNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>I am interested in what services some of you may be able to offer in
>>relation
>>>>>>to multi-track drum editing.
>>>>>>Since I'm a Paris user I thought it'd be good to ask the group to see
>>>what
>>>>>>editing servies might be available. I'm in the UK but am happy to work
>>>>remotely
>>>>>>on this (e.g. by sending files by post on DVD).
>>>>>>During a recent session, I recorded a drummer playing some drum tracks
>>>>to
>>>>>>a click (multi-tracked to 12 x 24 bit wav files). Unfortunately the
>performances
>>>>>>are not tight enough and need micro-editing, either by hand, or perhaps
>>>>>using
>>>>>>Cubase SX3's audio quantising / ProTools Beat Mapper or similar). I
>suspect
>>>>>>the former would give the best results, but since the playing is off
>>throughout
>>>>>>most of the performance, this could be rather time consuming. Sensitivity
>>>>>>will need to be paid to the groove and feel of the music, rather than
>>>a
>>>>>straight
>>>>>>100% iterative quanitze.
>>>>>>The drum parts are generally very simple. The style is hard to describe,
>>>>>>but broadly speaking it is alternative folk, but with rock / jazz /
>world
>>>>>>and other influences. Each song is under 5 minutes; and there are between
>>>>>>1 and 5 songs requiring attention.
>>>>>>I'd be gratfeul if you could let me know what services you can offer
>>that
>>>>>>might be of assistance, what your proposed working method would be
and
>>>>what
>>>>>>your rates for each of them would be, both per hour and per song. It
>>would
>>>>>>also be useful to have an idea of how long the project would take you
>>>to
>>>>>>complete (i.e. not just the working hours but estimated time to overall
>>>>>completion).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Unfortunately the band this is for is currently unsigned and so the
>budget
>>>>>>is somewhat limited. They are, however, quite perfectionist and interested
>>>>>>in obtaining a professional product.
>>>>>>Many thanks in advance.
>>>>>>Kind regards,
>>>>>>Daniel
>>>>>>daniel_burne@yahooNOSPAM.com (just delete the no spam).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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