Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96736 is a reply to message #96735] |
Tue, 11 March 2008 22:34   |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new
thing at some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
EXPECT it to be done.
I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
things, such as:
1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed
the drummer to get new heads before we started tracking... he
didn't - he said "they sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they
were "useable" sounds, but they could've been a helluva lot
better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
"yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night
before we started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell
out of his bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
strings.
3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
(which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to
nail it right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very
pleased on playback of the test track, but nonetheless he
happened to mention: "yeah, but still, all you really need is
an impact of some kind, right?", indicating his belief that
anything can be done once you have that.... which is not too
far off, really.
It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
"their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact.
Likewise, I've recorded singers that were VERY particular about
how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because
their pitch was off (not usually the case with me at the board,
because I'd have them re-do it while they were still on the
other side of the glass if it was clear they missed it) or they
didn't like a certain phrasing or dynamic, now it's pretty
much: "You can fix that, right?" lol
Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a
beer; the bar's over there in the corner.
lol
Neil
"Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to break
entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>
>The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start intensifying
>my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>
>
>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>
>> For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>> (where
>> everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest things
>> I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>> vocals
>> anymore.
>> Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
of
>> stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>> years
>> though.
>> Rod
>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>.........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have it
or
>> I
>>>will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>toolkit,
>>
>>>since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to fix
>>>entire
>>
>>>clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>
>>>"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> This is truly amazing!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>
>>>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible:
>> for
>>>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>> individual
>>>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>>
>>>> affords
>>>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>>>> will
>>>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96739 is a reply to message #96736] |
Tue, 11 March 2008 23:34 |
Kim
Messages: 1246
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Studio technology, and along with it the attitude people have, is getting
silly. Neil and Deej, you're both on the money IMO.
The question I guess is which art form you want to master. You can be a muso...
a person who can play live. You can be a producer... a person who creates
recorded works, often with little requirement to actually play anything.
You can be a sucker who gets paid to be an engineer but is expected to take
people who don't sound any good while playing an instrument and make it sound
like they sounded good by, in fact, being an underpaid producer.
I assume that these bands who don't really sound like "their own" recordings
aren't all that passionate about the music. Probably moreso about the groupies
and other "benefits". ;o) Now I get the attraction to groupies and stuff,
but at the risk of sounding old, why the world tolerates this whole fake
stardom thing I really don't get. Milly Vinilly got crucified for not singing
on their recordings, but it's seeming today almost like it would have been
ok so long as they sung SOMETHING, ANYTHING, and then a computer used whatever,
even if it was another vocal, to twist the piece of audio which they entered
in the computer into something releasable.
I've got nothing against the technology. I mean in itself it doesn't hurt
anything. The idea of being able to sit at a computer and have complete control,
in the end, of every harmonic, every note, every hit, and be able to manipulate
each and all of the above easily and quickly will, I'm sure, create astounding
art, and there's no reason to be without that.
What is troubling, and in a way it's been happening for a while, is that
people have forgotten the actual proper roots of music. Even the real "down
to earth" music lovers who go and see local bands, in most cases, go and
see loud amplified acts in a room, for the most part, full of strangers.
Now there's nothing wrong with that either, but I do think a lot of people
miss out on the real basics. The pleasure of a good muso on a "real" acoustic
instrument just sitting and playing to a small group of friends in a room.
Hit song distribution once occurred mostly when Mozart or a good "cover"
pianist was playing in town. Meanwhile some local guy knew how to strum a
few tunes on the guitar.
I don't think there's anything wrong with any way of being creative. There
is, however, something wrong when the public thinks one artist is responsible,
when in fact they sound amazingly different if left to their own devices.
I also think we're missing out on a lot by not fully appreciating real, live,
acoustic, organic music anywhere near often enough.
It feels to me somewhat like we invented sex toys and then somehow forgot
what it's like to just be with another person. ;o)
We think we're expanding our horizons, but it seems that the ground behind
is retreating as quickly as the ground in front advances. Every time we step
further into computer land we forget a little more of what we left behind,
and hence the horizon remains the size it was, only less organic.
I think I'll stop talking now. ;o)
Cheers,
Kim.
"Neil" <OIUOI@OUI.com> wrote:
>
>Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
>is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new
>thing at some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
>EXPECT it to be done.
>
>I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
>things, such as:
>
>1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed
>the drummer to get new heads before we started tracking... he
>didn't - he said "they sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they
>were "useable" sounds, but they could've been a helluva lot
>better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
>"yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
>
>2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
>the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night
>before we started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
>player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell
>out of his bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
>strings.
>
>3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
>we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
>(which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to
>nail it right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very
>pleased on playback of the test track, but nonetheless he
>happened to mention: "yeah, but still, all you really need is
>an impact of some kind, right?", indicating his belief that
>anything can be done once you have that.... which is not too
>far off, really.
>
>It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
>"their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
>don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
>expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact.
>Likewise, I've recorded singers that were VERY particular about
>how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because
>their pitch was off (not usually the case with me at the board,
>because I'd have them re-do it while they were still on the
>other side of the glass if it was clear they missed it) or they
>didn't like a certain phrasing or dynamic, now it's pretty
>much: "You can fix that, right?" lol
>
>Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
>album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a
>beer; the bar's over there in the corner.
>
>lol
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>"Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to break
>entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>>and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>>
>>The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start intensifying
>
>>my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>>
>>
>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>>
>>> For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>>> (where
>>> everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest things
>>> I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>
>>> vocals
>>> anymore.
>>> Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
>of
>>> stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>
>>> years
>>> though.
>>> Rod
>>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>>This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>>.........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>>another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have it
>or
>>> I
>>>>will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>>toolkit,
>>>
>>>>since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to fix
>>>>entire
>>>
>>>>clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>>
>>>>"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is truly amazing!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>>
>>>>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible:
>>> for
>>>>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>>> individual
>>>>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>>>
>>>>> affords
>>>>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>
>>>>> will
>>>>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96741 is a reply to message #96732] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 00:48 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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OK, that's gettin' a bit creepy. Yes, it's amazing, and I can't even begin
to comprehend how someone figured out how to do this.
And maybe if I had clients, especially clients with limited talents, funds,
or patience, I might have use for this. And I can even see how it could be
handy as a composing tool.
But I don't have clients, and if I want to hear what my chording will sound
like in a different mode or whatever, I'll just play/sing it that way.
There only a couple ways I'm willing to "cheat": Editing the best parts of
multiple takes together, and punching in. When someone tells me they really
like my music and that I'm really talented, I don't ever want to be
thinking,"Well, yeah, but I can't really do that."
And besides, there are so many really talented composers and players in the
world who will never be fortunate enough to be widely recognized for it.
This is why I object to using technology to make up for deficits in real
talent and skill.
I'm with Hot Rod . . . just do the friggin' thing right. Or find someone
who can.
Sarah
curmudgeon, throwback, & registered nurse
PS: buy our CD . . . it's 99% midi-free. No trans fats.
http://cdbaby.com/cd/sarahtonin
"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>
> This is truly amazing!
>
> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>
> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible: for
> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
> individual
> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
> affords
> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes will
> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96744 is a reply to message #96741] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 01:55 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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it's just another nail in what used to be music's coffin. besides
with mp3's, sat radio, over compressed, and limited product why would
anyone care. being out of tune may just be the only things that makes
a song stand out from the rest.
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:48:25 -0700, "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com>
wrote:
>OK, that's gettin' a bit creepy. Yes, it's amazing, and I can't even begin
>to comprehend how someone figured out how to do this.
>
>And maybe if I had clients, especially clients with limited talents, funds,
>or patience, I might have use for this. And I can even see how it could be
>handy as a composing tool.
>
>But I don't have clients, and if I want to hear what my chording will sound
>like in a different mode or whatever, I'll just play/sing it that way.
>There only a couple ways I'm willing to "cheat": Editing the best parts of
>multiple takes together, and punching in. When someone tells me they really
>like my music and that I'm really talented, I don't ever want to be
>thinking,"Well, yeah, but I can't really do that."
>
>And besides, there are so many really talented composers and players in the
>world who will never be fortunate enough to be widely recognized for it.
>This is why I object to using technology to make up for deficits in real
>talent and skill.
>
>I'm with Hot Rod . . . just do the friggin' thing right. Or find someone
>who can.
>
>Sarah
>curmudgeon, throwback, & registered nurse
>
>PS: buy our CD . . . it's 99% midi-free. No trans fats.
>http://cdbaby.com/cd/sarahtonin
>
>
>
>"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>
>> This is truly amazing!
>>
>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>
>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible: for
>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>> individual
>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>> affords
>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes will
>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>
|
|
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96746 is a reply to message #96741] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 05:59 |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Well said Sarah - I completely agree.
If a musician can't get a great performance in a reasonable amount of time
with minimal editing on my end, I look for another musician. It costs me and
my clients too much for me to sit and edit a performance for hours and
hours.
I think the technology of Melodyne is cool for what it is, and could be a
creative tool for creating new sounds that can't be played, but it could
also be a massive time-waster. Getting the right performance should be done
by the performer, not the engineer.
Regards,
Dedric
On 3/12/08 1:48 AM, in article 47d78dc1$1@linux, "Sarah"
<sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
> And besides, there are so many really talented composers and players in the
> world who will never be fortunate enough to be widely recognized for it.
> This is why I object to using technology to make up for deficits in real
> talent and skill.
>
> I'm with Hot Rod . . . just do the friggin' thing right. Or find someone
> who can.
>
> Sarah
> curmudgeon, throwback, & registered nurse
>
> PS: buy our CD . . . it's 99% midi-free. No trans fats.
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/sarahtonin
>
>
>
> "Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>
>> This is truly amazing!
>>
>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>
>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible: for
>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>> individual
>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>> affords
>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes will
>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>
>
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96748 is a reply to message #96736] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 08:02 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ah yes, but just think of all the billable hours it would add to a
project to mess with all that crap!
One more reason to work on an hourly basis... "sure, I can fix it, but
it's gonna cost ya" ;-)
David.
Neil wrote:
> Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
> is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new
> thing at some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
> EXPECT it to be done.
>
> I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
> things, such as:
>
> 1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed
> the drummer to get new heads before we started tracking... he
> didn't - he said "they sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they
> were "useable" sounds, but they could've been a helluva lot
> better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
> "yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
>
> 2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
> the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night
> before we started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
> player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell
> out of his bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
> strings.
>
> 3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
> we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
> (which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to
> nail it right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very
> pleased on playback of the test track, but nonetheless he
> happened to mention: "yeah, but still, all you really need is
> an impact of some kind, right?", indicating his belief that
> anything can be done once you have that.... which is not too
> far off, really.
>
> It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
> "their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
> don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
> expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact.
> Likewise, I've recorded singers that were VERY particular about
> how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because
> their pitch was off (not usually the case with me at the board,
> because I'd have them re-do it while they were still on the
> other side of the glass if it was clear they missed it) or they
> didn't like a certain phrasing or dynamic, now it's pretty
> much: "You can fix that, right?" lol
>
> Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
> album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a
> beer; the bar's over there in the corner.
>
> lol
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to break
> entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>
>>and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>>
>>The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start intensifying
>
>
>>my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>>
>>
>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>
>>>For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>>>(where
>>>everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest things
>>>I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>
>
>>>vocals
>>>anymore.
>>>Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
>
> of
>
>>>stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>
>
>>>years
>>>though.
>>>Rod
>>>"Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>>.........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>>another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have it
>
> or
>
>>>I
>>>
>>>>will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>>toolkit,
>>>
>>>>since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to fix
>>>>entire
>>>
>>>>clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>>
>>>>"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>This is truly amazing!
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>>
>>>>>Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible:
>>>
>>>for
>>>
>>>>>the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>>>individual
>>>>>notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>>>
>>>>>affords
>>>>>to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>
>
>>>>>will
>>>>>now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
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| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96749 is a reply to message #96748] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 08:21 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I can imagine the sessions:
"Hal, we need you to strum a chord"
"Just one chord?"
"Just one chord, Hal, that's right."
"Uh, what chord?"
"Doesn't matter."
"Like this?"
"Great, thanks."
"OK, here I go..."
"No, we're done, Hal. You can leave now."
"Uh, really? OK, see you next time."
"We won't be needing you any more Hal, we have the chord to work with."
"wha...?"
"Hal, please clear the studio, we have the bass note to record, the horn
section stab, and then we need the rest of the week to work with your
chord."
"But I blocked out four hours..."
"Sorry Hal, we're only paying you for thirty seconds. But listen, if you
play that same chord on the piano on your way out we'll double your pay
and give you a soda. Which is like tripling your pay!"
"Yo man, you're a real jerk!"
"Nice, we can use the 'yo.' Thanks Hal."
"Mother#*&@ ass*&#(#^!"
"Thank you. goodbye Hal."
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
EK Sound wrote:
> Ah yes, but just think of all the billable hours it would add to a
> project to mess with all that crap!
>
> One more reason to work on an hourly basis... "sure, I can fix it, but
> it's gonna cost ya" ;-)
>
> David.
>
> Neil wrote:
>> Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
>> is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new thing at
>> some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
>> EXPECT it to be done.
>>
>> I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
>> things, such as:
>>
>> 1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed the
>> drummer to get new heads before we started tracking... he didn't - he
>> said "they sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they were "useable" sounds,
>> but they could've been a helluva lot
>> better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
>> "yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
>>
>> 2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
>> the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night before we
>> started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
>> player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell out of
>> his bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
>> strings.
>>
>> 3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
>> we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
>> (which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to nail it
>> right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very pleased on playback
>> of the test track, but nonetheless he happened to mention: "yeah, but
>> still, all you really need is an impact of some kind, right?",
>> indicating his belief that anything can be done once you have that....
>> which is not too far off, really.
>>
>> It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
>> "their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
>> don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
>> expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact. Likewise,
>> I've recorded singers that were VERY particular about
>> how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because their
>> pitch was off (not usually the case with me at the board, because I'd
>> have them re-do it while they were still on the other side of the
>> glass if it was clear they missed it) or they didn't like a certain
>> phrasing or dynamic, now it's pretty much: "You can fix that,
>> right?" lol
>>
>> Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
>> album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a beer;
>> the bar's over there in the corner.
>>
>> lol
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to
>> break
>> entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>>> and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>>>
>>> The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start
>>> intensifying
>>
>>
>>> my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>>
>>>> For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>>>> (where
>>>> everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest
>>>> things
>>>> I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>>
>>
>>>> vocals
>>>> anymore.
>>>> Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
>>
>> of
>>
>>>> stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>>
>>
>>>> years
>>>> though.
>>>> Rod
>>>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>>> .........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>>> another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have it
>>
>> or
>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>>> toolkit,
>>>>
>>>>> since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to
>>>>> fix entire
>>>>
>>>>> clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>>>
>>>>> "Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message
>>>>> news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is truly amazing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible
>>>>>> possible:
>>>>
>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>>>> individual
>>>>>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that
>>>>>> Melodyne
>>>>
>>>>>> affords
>>>>>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>>
>>
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96751 is a reply to message #96739] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 09:50 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You can be a sucker who gets paid to be an engineer but is
>expected to take people who don't sound any good while playing
>an instrument and make it sound like they sounded good by, in
>fact, being an underpaid producer.
You & I certainly have differing opinions on this aspect. I
don't think what you're describing is being a "sucker" at all...
it's simply a skill-set that you have the option to use, and to whatever
extent you wish to employ it, based on the terms under
which you've agreed to work on a given project. For example,
what's the difference between - let's say Mutt Lange, getting
involved with Def Leppard when he did, and taking them to a
level that they probably never would have reached otherwise -
and someone with a certain skill-set taking a not-so-great
local band to some higher level than they could otherwise
achieve without that individual's help? Or a pretty decent
local band, for that matter... or a really good local band - I
don't think it makes any difference, really. Yeah, we're
talking a major difference in terms of the level of the
industry between a Lange/Leppard project & one like I'm
referring to, but inasfar as helping a client/band to realize
their vision... what's the difference?
You always have the option of turning down a project if you
think all you're gonna be doing by working with someone is gold-
plating a turd... unless you do it for a living & you feel you
HAVE to take every piece of business you can get, but good
lord, it's STILL better than before we had all this kind of
technology... "back in the day" you'd STILL have to work with
wankers from time to time, you just couldn't help them as much
as you can now - I'm betting there's almost no one who was a
recordist prior to this era who doesn't have at least a few
projects under their belt that they would rather not admit to
having worked on.
>why the world tolerates this whole fake stardom thing I really
>don't get. Milly Vinilly got crucified for not singing
>on their recordings, but it's seeming today almost like it
>would have been ok so long as they sung SOMETHING, ANYTHING,
>and then a computer used whatever, even if it was another
>vocal, to twist the piece of audio which they entered
>in the computer into something releasable.
Well, it's all about the saleability of the product, not the
quality of the product... which is not to say that there aren't
people who care about the quality of the work they do, it's
just that EVERY form of entertainment seems to have a shorter
shelf life these days, not just music... movies, even good ones,
hit theaters & then a few weeks later they're on DVD; a couple
months after that they're on Pay-per-view, then HBO, etc, etc.
It's rare for a movie, even a very successful one, to stay in
theaters for anywhere near as long as they used to. Look at
video games... used to be in THAT industry you'd be able to
put out a good title & ride it for awhile - now you've got a lot
of games that come out with a new edition every year.
So, you've got to look at the music biz as more of an "assembly
line" process now... assemble it, package it, push it out the
door... NEXT! Right? Which in a way is kinda the same way it
was in the era that some consider to be the "Golden Age" of
popular music... the Brill Building was chock-full of witers
churning out songs, lower-level musicians demoing them,
publishers buying 'em, then selling them to the big-name artists
or their labels. Labels like Motown & entire cities like
Nashville used top-notch session players who could nail stuff
in a take or two, instead of using a feature artist's regular
band, in order to save time/money/get a better track overall.
How much more "assembly line"-like can you get? It wasn't until
albums like "Sgt. Pepper's" and "Pet Sounds" that bands would
start getting really self-indulgent & spend inordinate amounts
of time in the studio experimenting, tweaking... hell, WRITING
in the studio! And for a brief, shining moment there - in that
era when bands like Fleetwood Mac would famously spend a year
in the studio working on an ablum - labels would actually let
them. And I think people of the generation that most of us on
this board seem to be in, came to think that that's the way it's
normally done... we got spoiled, in a way.
But then again - a lot of those artists would have four or five
songs in heavy rotation on the radio at once! If you listened
to rock or Top-40 radio in that era, artists like Steve Miller,
Fleetwood Mac, Boston, Bad Company, Aerosmith, Foghat for a
little bit there... damn the list could go on & on - all had
SEVERAL hits in rotation at the same time! Martin's Air Supply
stuff too, on the pop channels... how many freakin hits did
those guys have on the air at once? Four or five, IIRC.
Doobies, Queen, Manilow, Linda Ronstadt - just a few more that
pop into mind that each had multiple songs on the air at once.
You just don't see that happening all that much anymore.
Argh - that really digressed... ok, enough typing for now lol
Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96752 is a reply to message #96748] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 09:53 |
|
|
Yeah, but all those billable hours add up to a stiff neck, a case of carpal
tunnel syndrome and a hole in your spiritual stomach...
Gantt
EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>Ah yes, but just think of all the billable hours it would add to a
>project to mess with all that crap!
>
>One more reason to work on an hourly basis... "sure, I can fix it, but
>it's gonna cost ya" ;-)
>
>David.
>
>Neil wrote:
>> Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
>> is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new
>> thing at some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
>> EXPECT it to be done.
>>
>> I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
>> things, such as:
>>
>> 1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed
>> the drummer to get new heads before we started tracking... he
>> didn't - he said "they sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they
>> were "useable" sounds, but they could've been a helluva lot
>> better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
>> "yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
>>
>> 2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
>> the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night
>> before we started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
>> player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell
>> out of his bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
>> strings.
>>
>> 3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
>> we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
>> (which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to
>> nail it right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very
>> pleased on playback of the test track, but nonetheless he
>> happened to mention: "yeah, but still, all you really need is
>> an impact of some kind, right?", indicating his belief that
>> anything can be done once you have that.... which is not too
>> far off, really.
>>
>> It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
>> "their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
>> don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
>> expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact.
>> Likewise, I've recorded singers that were VERY particular about
>> how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because
>> their pitch was off (not usually the case with me at the board,
>> because I'd have them re-do it while they were still on the
>> other side of the glass if it was clear they missed it) or they
>> didn't like a certain phrasing or dynamic, now it's pretty
>> much: "You can fix that, right?" lol
>>
>> Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
>> album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a
>> beer; the bar's over there in the corner.
>>
>> lol
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to
break
>> entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>>
>>>and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>>>
>>>The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start intensifying
>>
>>
>>>my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>>>>(where
>>>>everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest things
>>>>I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>>
>>
>>>>vocals
>>>>anymore.
>>>>Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
>>
>> of
>>
>>>>stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>>
>>
>>>>years
>>>>though.
>>>>Rod
>>>>"Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>>>.........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>>>another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have it
>>
>> or
>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>>will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>>>toolkit,
>>>>
>>>>>since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to fix
>>>>>entire
>>>>
>>>>>clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>>>
>>>>>"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is truly amazing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible:
>>>>
>>>>for
>>>>
>>>>>>the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>>>>individual
>>>>>>notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>>>>
>>>>>>affords
>>>>>>to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>>
>>
>>>>>>will
>>>>>>now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96754 is a reply to message #96749] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 10:00 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ROFL! that's great... especially the "yo" part.
Neil
Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>I can imagine the sessions:
>
>"Hal, we need you to strum a chord"
>
>"Just one chord?"
>
>"Just one chord, Hal, that's right."
>
>"Uh, what chord?"
>
>"Doesn't matter."
>
>"Like this?"
>
>"Great, thanks."
>
>"OK, here I go..."
>
>"No, we're done, Hal. You can leave now."
>
>"Uh, really? OK, see you next time."
>
>"We won't be needing you any more Hal, we have the chord to work with."
>
>"wha...?"
>
>"Hal, please clear the studio, we have the bass note to record, the horn
>section stab, and then we need the rest of the week to work with your
>chord."
>
>"But I blocked out four hours..."
>
>"Sorry Hal, we're only paying you for thirty seconds. But listen, if you
>play that same chord on the piano on your way out we'll double your pay
>and give you a soda. Which is like tripling your pay!"
>
>"Yo man, you're a real jerk!"
>
>"Nice, we can use the 'yo.' Thanks Hal."
>
>"Mother#*&@ ass*&#(#^!"
>
>"Thank you. goodbye Hal."
>
>Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
>EK Sound wrote:
>> Ah yes, but just think of all the billable hours it would add to a
>> project to mess with all that crap!
>>
>> One more reason to work on an hourly basis... "sure, I can fix it, but
>> it's gonna cost ya" ;-)
>>
>> David.
>>
>> Neil wrote:
>>> Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
>>> is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new thing at
>>> some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
>>> EXPECT it to be done.
>>>
>>> I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
>>> things, such as:
>>>
>>> 1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed the
>>> drummer to get new heads before we started tracking... he didn't - he
>>> said "they sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they were "useable" sounds,
>>> but they could've been a helluva lot
>>> better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
>>> "yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
>>>
>>> 2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
>>> the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night before we
>>> started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
>>> player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell out of
>>> his bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
>>> strings.
>>>
>>> 3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
>>> we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
>>> (which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to nail it
>>> right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very pleased on playback
>>> of the test track, but nonetheless he happened to mention: "yeah, but
>>> still, all you really need is an impact of some kind, right?",
>>> indicating his belief that anything can be done once you have that....
>>> which is not too far off, really.
>>>
>>> It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
>>> "their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
>>> don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
>>> expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact. Likewise,
>>> I've recorded singers that were VERY particular about
>>> how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because their
>>> pitch was off (not usually the case with me at the board, because I'd
>>> have them re-do it while they were still on the other side of the
>>> glass if it was clear they missed it) or they didn't like a certain
>>> phrasing or dynamic, now it's pretty much: "You can fix that,
>>> right?" lol
>>>
>>> Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
>>> album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a beer;
>>> the bar's over there in the corner.
>>>
>>> lol
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to
>>> break
>>> entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>>>> and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>>>>
>>>> The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start
>>>> intensifying
>>>
>>>
>>>> my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>> For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>>>>> (where
>>>>> everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest
>>>>> things
>>>>> I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>>>
>>>
>>>>> vocals
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>> Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>>> stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>>>
>>>
>>>>> years
>>>>> though.
>>>>> Rod
>>>>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>>>> .........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>>>> another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have
it
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>>> will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>>>> toolkit,
>>>>>
>>>>>> since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to
>>>>>> fix entire
>>>>>
>>>>>> clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is truly amazing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible
>>>>>>> possible:
>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>>>>> individual
>>>>>>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that
>>>>>>> Melodyne
>>>>>
>>>>>>> affords
>>>>>>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96755 is a reply to message #96746] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 10:10 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Dedric Terry <dterry@keyofd.net> wrote:
>I think the technology of Melodyne is cool for what it is, and could be
a
>creative tool for creating new sounds that can't be played, but it could
>also be a massive time-waster. Getting the right performance should be
done
>by the performer, not the engineer.
I did a project a few months back wherein I used Melodyne to
build a harmony backing vocal track on a couple sections of the
chorus... the guy can sing, he just can't do harmonies. So, the
alternatives were:
1.) Find someone else to sing it
2.) Live without a harmony track
3.) Use Melodyne to build one
Simple choice in this case... took me maybe 20 minutes, max.
Cloned the track, let Melodyne generate it's little files,
adjusted the pitch on each one, nudged 'em forward or backward
a teensy bit here & there so it sounded like a natural double
instead of a cloned one, then tweaked the formant up a little
bit for the same reason, and... done!
In the end, the song became the beneficiary of the technology -
taking the view of "if the performer can't do it right, it's
not going to be done" would have cheated the song out of a
better end result.
Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96756 is a reply to message #96732] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 10:37 |
|
|
Well, I've read all the other posts to date. I share many of your thoughts
and concerns about having this kind of technological power at our disposal
and, even worse, having clients KNOW that we have these powerful tools available.
I originally bought AutoTune for a project that involved a singer who couldn't
sing in tune to save her life. It was in the good old ADAT days and tuning
would have involved transferring tracks into Digital Performer, tuning the
bad notes, then transferring back to ADAT for mixing. I thanked God when
that project went elsewhere and I owned AutoTune for another two years before
I actually began using it. I have had people ask up front if I have AutoTune.
If I had said "no" they would have definitely gone elsewhere. I've gotten
pretty darned good at tuning vocals without making them sound like they're
been tuned. I have also had vocal tracks that were so consistantly flat
that I had to dump them into Protools so I could run the Waves Soundshifter
plugin on them to bring them up 12 or14 cents. Then I could import them
back into Paris and use AutoTune on them.
My concern for myself is that much of the joy of recording music is gone.
I'm grateful that I get to record a fair amount of "straight ahead" jazz
that doesn't get overly processed but for other kinds of projects I find
myself more and more being the one who makes bad stuff sound better and OK
stuff good. I actually don't mind making really good stuff sound great.
To my mind that's the most valid use of AutoTune or digital editing - to
take a killer track with a couple of small flaws and make it just right.
The projects that call for massive manipulation just eat at me. And since
I do do this for a living, I can't afford to be anything but a Miracle Worker.
In fact, it's what brings me business at this level. The good news and
the bad news all rolled in one.
My concern for the musicians is that they aren't going to learn anything
from a session in which they can screw up every which way and still go home
with a CD that makes them sound like a bunch of LA session players (more
or less!). It's taken me 44 years to get to my current level of skill playing
the guitar. When the very first cassette machines came out the keyboard
player I traveled with and I invested in one and we began recording every
set, every night and every night after the gig we listened to it all. Every
night. Six nights a week. You learn a lot about your playing doing that.
And learning to play in the studio was a similar process. Record, listen,
record, listen, record, listen... and learn. What do the people learn from
watching me tune and slide and copy and paste their tracks these days?
They learn that they can screw up and I'll fix it.
Remember the old Protools joke where the producer gets on the talkback and
says "It sucked! Come on in!" It's not so funny any more!
Gantt
"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote:
>
>This is truly amazing!
>
>http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>
>Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible: for
>the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit individual
>notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
affords
>to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes will
>now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96757 is a reply to message #96756] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 09:54 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT of
"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
David.
Gantt Kushner wrote:
> Well, I've read all the other posts to date. I share many of your thoughts
> and concerns about having this kind of technological power at our disposal
> and, even worse, having clients KNOW that we have these powerful tools available.
> I originally bought AutoTune for a project that involved a singer who couldn't
> sing in tune to save her life. It was in the good old ADAT days and tuning
> would have involved transferring tracks into Digital Performer, tuning the
> bad notes, then transferring back to ADAT for mixing. I thanked God when
> that project went elsewhere and I owned AutoTune for another two years before
> I actually began using it. I have had people ask up front if I have AutoTune.
> If I had said "no" they would have definitely gone elsewhere. I've gotten
> pretty darned good at tuning vocals without making them sound like they're
> been tuned. I have also had vocal tracks that were so consistantly flat
> that I had to dump them into Protools so I could run the Waves Soundshifter
> plugin on them to bring them up 12 or14 cents. Then I could import them
> back into Paris and use AutoTune on them.
>
> My concern for myself is that much of the joy of recording music is gone.
> I'm grateful that I get to record a fair amount of "straight ahead" jazz
> that doesn't get overly processed but for other kinds of projects I find
> myself more and more being the one who makes bad stuff sound better and OK
> stuff good. I actually don't mind making really good stuff sound great.
> To my mind that's the most valid use of AutoTune or digital editing - to
> take a killer track with a couple of small flaws and make it just right.
> The projects that call for massive manipulation just eat at me. And since
> I do do this for a living, I can't afford to be anything but a Miracle Worker.
> In fact, it's what brings me business at this level. The good news and
> the bad news all rolled in one.
>
> My concern for the musicians is that they aren't going to learn anything
> from a session in which they can screw up every which way and still go home
> with a CD that makes them sound like a bunch of LA session players (more
> or less!). It's taken me 44 years to get to my current level of skill playing
> the guitar. When the very first cassette machines came out the keyboard
> player I traveled with and I invested in one and we began recording every
> set, every night and every night after the gig we listened to it all. Every
> night. Six nights a week. You learn a lot about your playing doing that.
> And learning to play in the studio was a similar process. Record, listen,
> record, listen, record, listen... and learn. What do the people learn from
> watching me tune and slide and copy and paste their tracks these days?
> They learn that they can screw up and I'll fix it.
>
> Remember the old Protools joke where the producer gets on the talkback and
> says "It sucked! Come on in!" It's not so funny any more!
>
> Gantt
>
> "Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote:
>
>>This is truly amazing!
>>
>>http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>
>>Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible: for
>>the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit individual
>>notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>
> affords
>
>>to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes will
>>now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96758 is a reply to message #96757] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 11:25 |
|
|
That's why I've actually been looking for a day job. Problem is - I'm not
qualified to do anything but record and play music!
Gantt
EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
>years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT of
>"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
>done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
>
>David.
>
>Gantt Kushner wrote:
>> Well, I've read all the other posts to date. I share many of your thoughts
>> and concerns about having this kind of technological power at our disposal
>> and, even worse, having clients KNOW that we have these powerful tools
available.
>> I originally bought AutoTune for a project that involved a singer who
couldn't
>> sing in tune to save her life. It was in the good old ADAT days and tuning
>> would have involved transferring tracks into Digital Performer, tuning
the
>> bad notes, then transferring back to ADAT for mixing. I thanked God when
>> that project went elsewhere and I owned AutoTune for another two years
before
>> I actually began using it. I have had people ask up front if I have AutoTune.
>> If I had said "no" they would have definitely gone elsewhere. I've gotten
>> pretty darned good at tuning vocals without making them sound like they're
>> been tuned. I have also had vocal tracks that were so consistantly flat
>> that I had to dump them into Protools so I could run the Waves Soundshifter
>> plugin on them to bring them up 12 or14 cents. Then I could import them
>> back into Paris and use AutoTune on them.
>>
>> My concern for myself is that much of the joy of recording music is gone.
>> I'm grateful that I get to record a fair amount of "straight ahead" jazz
>> that doesn't get overly processed but for other kinds of projects I find
>> myself more and more being the one who makes bad stuff sound better and
OK
>> stuff good. I actually don't mind making really good stuff sound great.
>> To my mind that's the most valid use of AutoTune or digital editing -
to
>> take a killer track with a couple of small flaws and make it just right.
>> The projects that call for massive manipulation just eat at me. And
since
>> I do do this for a living, I can't afford to be anything but a Miracle
Worker.
>> In fact, it's what brings me business at this level. The good news and
>> the bad news all rolled in one.
>>
>> My concern for the musicians is that they aren't going to learn anything
>> from a session in which they can screw up every which way and still go
home
>> with a CD that makes them sound like a bunch of LA session players (more
>> or less!). It's taken me 44 years to get to my current level of skill
playing
>> the guitar. When the very first cassette machines came out the keyboard
>> player I traveled with and I invested in one and we began recording every
>> set, every night and every night after the gig we listened to it all.
Every
>> night. Six nights a week. You learn a lot about your playing doing that.
>> And learning to play in the studio was a similar process. Record, listen,
>> record, listen, record, listen... and learn. What do the people learn
from
>> watching me tune and slide and copy and paste their tracks these days?
>> They learn that they can screw up and I'll fix it.
>>
>> Remember the old Protools joke where the producer gets on the talkback
and
>> says "It sucked! Come on in!" It's not so funny any more!
>>
>> Gantt
>>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96761 is a reply to message #96756] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 13:21 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Don't worry guys, there will always be great musicians. There are ten year
olds that are great. Thank god, for god given talent.
The whole down slide of musicianship has been going on for about 20 years
now, this is nothing new. I'll blame the idiots that got in to the record
industry. They blamed big hair rock, and I've got to say bands like Poison
did ruin it for rock by going too far over the top, and the industry over
played them. I believe a much bigger contributing factor was Yo MTV RAPS!
Turning knobs and record scratching may be art and music to some, but it's
not true musicianship, and it doesn't appeal to everybody!
Another damaging factor was the other direction the industry went, produced,
contrived Bubble Gum like Britney Spears. The record industry made a lot
of money for a while on studio produced music, but they kind of turned their
backs on musicianship. In the end they poison the well they all drink from.
The rebellious angry rock they are trying to push is not going to go anywhere
either. They killed the super group, but the funny thing is, that's exactly
what they need. The record industry needs great song writers and great musicianship
to save it. The industry would like to blame napster or the MP3 for hard
times, but the truth is, the industry is mismanaged. The wrong people are
running the show. Randy Jackson use to always say to me, A&R guys are sheep
with egos. Of course, he was also talking about himself.
Like I was saying, there are still great musicians out there to record.
There will always be good musicians. We should encourage good musicianship
and try to develop young talent. It will all comeback around.
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Well, I've read all the other posts to date. I share many of your thoughts
>and concerns about having this kind of technological power at our disposal
>and, even worse, having clients KNOW that we have these powerful tools available.
> I originally bought AutoTune for a project that involved a singer who couldn't
>sing in tune to save her life. It was in the good old ADAT days and tuning
>would have involved transferring tracks into Digital Performer, tuning the
>bad notes, then transferring back to ADAT for mixing. I thanked God when
>that project went elsewhere and I owned AutoTune for another two years before
>I actually began using it. I have had people ask up front if I have AutoTune.
> If I had said "no" they would have definitely gone elsewhere. I've gotten
>pretty darned good at tuning vocals without making them sound like they're
>been tuned. I have also had vocal tracks that were so consistantly flat
>that I had to dump them into Protools so I could run the Waves Soundshifter
>plugin on them to bring them up 12 or14 cents. Then I could import them
>back into Paris and use AutoTune on them.
>
>My concern for myself is that much of the joy of recording music is gone.
> I'm grateful that I get to record a fair amount of "straight ahead" jazz
>that doesn't get overly processed but for other kinds of projects I find
>myself more and more being the one who makes bad stuff sound better and
OK
>stuff good. I actually don't mind making really good stuff sound great.
> To my mind that's the most valid use of AutoTune or digital editing - to
>take a killer track with a couple of small flaws and make it just right.
> The projects that call for massive manipulation just eat at me. And since
>I do do this for a living, I can't afford to be anything but a Miracle Worker.
> In fact, it's what brings me business at this level. The good news and
>the bad news all rolled in one.
>
>My concern for the musicians is that they aren't going to learn anything
>from a session in which they can screw up every which way and still go home
>with a CD that makes them sound like a bunch of LA session players (more
>or less!). It's taken me 44 years to get to my current level of skill playing
>the guitar. When the very first cassette machines came out the keyboard
>player I traveled with and I invested in one and we began recording every
>set, every night and every night after the gig we listened to it all. Every
>night. Six nights a week. You learn a lot about your playing doing that.
> And learning to play in the studio was a similar process. Record, listen,
>record, listen, record, listen... and learn. What do the people learn
from
>watching me tune and slide and copy and paste their tracks these days?
>They learn that they can screw up and I'll fix it.
>
>Remember the old Protools joke where the producer gets on the talkback and
>says "It sucked! Come on in!" It's not so funny any more!
>
>Gantt
>
>"Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote:
>>
>>This is truly amazing!
>>
>>http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>
>>Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible possible:
for
>>the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit individual
>>notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that Melodyne
>affords
>>to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes will
>>now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96770 is a reply to message #96759] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 17:01 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is why I'm very thankful to be outside music as a living now. A steady
paycheck and health insurance with a retirement plan is GOOD thing in my
view, and one I wondered for years if I'd have. For sure touring and playing
offers no such long term benefits, and living on the road gets expensive.
Taxes on contract musicians can be devestating. Today's shelf life on bands
is so short that one can lose the game easily. I know there's not much
'cool' in the day gig, but it sure beats bein' cool and
hungry/broke/divorced/homeless/addicted, as so many of my peers and friends
have become.
Besides, working at a music store would only append debts for me :)
Gannt, take something you have learned along the way and apply it to another
field. Look through hotjobs.com and the such, look at the descriptions and
see what fits or is close to a fit. You are smart and capable, moreso than
you're giving yourself credit for here.
AA
"EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:47d819c7$1@linux...
> Most of the people I know around here in similar situations are all
> working at music stores...
>
> David.
>
> Gantt Kushner wrote:
>> That's why I've actually been looking for a day job. Problem is - I'm
>> not
>> qualified to do anything but record and play music!
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>> EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
>>
>>
>>>years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT of
>>
>>
>>>"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
>>
>>
>>>done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
>>>
>>>David.
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96772 is a reply to message #96770] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 18:32 |
|
|
Hi Aaron,
God bless you for having so much more faith in me than I have in myself!
I actually checked out a job at Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center, our
big local store (if you don't count The Guitar Center as local, which I don't!).
The pro sound manager spent a long time telling me about the good and bad
points of the job. Mostly, it sounded like the internet and has totally
changed the business for store's like WMC. The top salesmen are probably
making $50K - $60K after 7 or 8 years on the job. Doesn't sound like much
fun to me. I know that 20 years in the studio business has probably helped
me build some skills that translate in other fields. I've been doing a lot
of thinking about where to look for possibilities.
Gantt
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>This is why I'm very thankful to be outside music as a living now. A steady
>paycheck and health insurance with a retirement plan is GOOD thing in my
>view, and one I wondered for years if I'd have. For sure touring and playing
>offers no such long term benefits, and living on the road gets expensive.
>Taxes on contract musicians can be devestating. Today's shelf life on bands
>is so short that one can lose the game easily. I know there's not much
>'cool' in the day gig, but it sure beats bein' cool and
>hungry/broke/divorced/homeless/addicted, as so many of my peers and friends
>have become.
>Besides, working at a music store would only append debts for me :)
>Gannt, take something you have learned along the way and apply it to another
>field. Look through hotjobs.com and the such, look at the descriptions and
>see what fits or is close to a fit. You are smart and capable, moreso than
>you're giving yourself credit for here.
>
>
>AA
>
>
>"EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:47d819c7$1@linux...
>> Most of the people I know around here in similar situations are all
>> working at music stores...
>>
>> David.
>>
>> Gantt Kushner wrote:
>>> That's why I've actually been looking for a day job. Problem is - I'm
>>> not
>>> qualified to do anything but record and play music!
>>>
>>> Gantt
>>>
>>> EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
>>>
>>>
>>>>years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT
of
>>>
>>>
>>>>"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
>>>
>>>
>>>>done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
>>>>
>>>>David.
>>>>
>
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96773 is a reply to message #96772] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 17:58 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
2 things for sure. Computers and government jobs aren't going anywhere. If I
could step backwards about 5 years, I'd have gone into high end networking I
think, and become a network architect for someone like CISCO or NORTEL -
they get stupid money. And it is artistic - you design and see the future of
the business client and stroke the brush on how they'll expand and use it.
The art is today's design with the future in mind.
Some insights: *everything* is going to be about networks in the future
where business is concerned. Video Security, visual entertainment,
audio/audio control, data, phones, fire alarms, smoke detectors, remote
users.... it's all network capable these days.With the advances in storage,
CPU power and 10GBit network speeds here today, it will only get bigger and
the cool thing is that the fiber in the ground is still good as speeds push
upwards for some time. IMO that means switches/fiber equipment is gonna be
the demand, and labor on how to design it/impliment it.
OS and computer type are a fading memory, it's all gonna be about (wired and
wireless) internet/intranet. Believe me on this. Take that CLWMC or GC gig
if you need to but study at night. If it's about networking, learn the 7 OSI
layers, understand the IP / Subnet mask relationship, learn the ins and outs
for secured network structure especially in the wireless field.
http://www.braindumps.com/
http://www.brainbench.com/
http://www.proprofs.com/
AA
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:47d8762e$1@linux...
>
> Hi Aaron,
>
> God bless you for having so much more faith in me than I have in myself!
> I actually checked out a job at Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center, our
> big local store (if you don't count The Guitar Center as local, which I
> don't!).
> The pro sound manager spent a long time telling me about the good and bad
> points of the job. Mostly, it sounded like the internet and has totally
> changed the business for store's like WMC. The top salesmen are probably
> making $50K - $60K after 7 or 8 years on the job. Doesn't sound like much
> fun to me. I know that 20 years in the studio business has probably
> helped
> me build some skills that translate in other fields. I've been doing a
> lot
> of thinking about where to look for possibilities.
>
> Gantt
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>This is why I'm very thankful to be outside music as a living now. A
>>steady
>
>>paycheck and health insurance with a retirement plan is GOOD thing in my
>
>>view, and one I wondered for years if I'd have. For sure touring and
>>playing
>
>>offers no such long term benefits, and living on the road gets expensive.
>
>>Taxes on contract musicians can be devestating. Today's shelf life on
>>bands
>
>>is so short that one can lose the game easily. I know there's not much
>
>>'cool' in the day gig, but it sure beats bein' cool and
>>hungry/broke/divorced/homeless/addicted, as so many of my peers and
>>friends
>
>>have become.
>>Besides, working at a music store would only append debts for me :)
>>Gannt, take something you have learned along the way and apply it to
>>another
>
>>field. Look through hotjobs.com and the such, look at the descriptions and
>
>>see what fits or is close to a fit. You are smart and capable, moreso than
>
>>you're giving yourself credit for here.
>>
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:47d819c7$1@linux...
>>> Most of the people I know around here in similar situations are all
>>> working at music stores...
>>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>> Gantt Kushner wrote:
>>>> That's why I've actually been looking for a day job. Problem is - I'm
>
>>>> not
>>>> qualified to do anything but record and play music!
>>>>
>>>> Gantt
>>>>
>>>> EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT
> of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
>>>>>
>>>>>David.
>>>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96774 is a reply to message #96773] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 19:21 |
|
|
I have a friend (also a musician) who's a CISCO network engineer. He's been
encouraging me to look into it. MAybe I'll do some research...
Gantt
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>2 things for sure. Computers and government jobs aren't going anywhere.
If I
>could step backwards about 5 years, I'd have gone into high end networking
I
>think, and become a network architect for someone like CISCO or NORTEL -
>they get stupid money. And it is artistic - you design and see the future
of
>the business client and stroke the brush on how they'll expand and use it.
>The art is today's design with the future in mind.
>
>Some insights: *everything* is going to be about networks in the future
>where business is concerned. Video Security, visual entertainment,
>audio/audio control, data, phones, fire alarms, smoke detectors, remote
>users.... it's all network capable these days.With the advances in storage,
>CPU power and 10GBit network speeds here today, it will only get bigger
and
>the cool thing is that the fiber in the ground is still good as speeds push
>upwards for some time. IMO that means switches/fiber equipment is gonna
be
>the demand, and labor on how to design it/impliment it.
>
>OS and computer type are a fading memory, it's all gonna be about (wired
and
>wireless) internet/intranet. Believe me on this. Take that CLWMC or GC gig
>if you need to but study at night. If it's about networking, learn the 7
OSI
>layers, understand the IP / Subnet mask relationship, learn the ins and
outs
>for secured network structure especially in the wireless field.
>
>http://www.braindumps.com/
>
>http://www.brainbench.com/
>
>http://www.proprofs.com/
>
>AA
>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:47d8762e$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi Aaron,
>>
>> God bless you for having so much more faith in me than I have in myself!
>> I actually checked out a job at Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center,
our
>> big local store (if you don't count The Guitar Center as local, which
I
>> don't!).
>> The pro sound manager spent a long time telling me about the good and
bad
>> points of the job. Mostly, it sounded like the internet and has totally
>> changed the business for store's like WMC. The top salesmen are probably
>> making $50K - $60K after 7 or 8 years on the job. Doesn't sound like
much
>> fun to me. I know that 20 years in the studio business has probably
>> helped
>> me build some skills that translate in other fields. I've been doing
a
>> lot
>> of thinking about where to look for possibilities.
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>This is why I'm very thankful to be outside music as a living now. A
>>>steady
>>
>>>paycheck and health insurance with a retirement plan is GOOD thing in
my
>>
>>>view, and one I wondered for years if I'd have. For sure touring and
>>>playing
>>
>>>offers no such long term benefits, and living on the road gets expensive.
>>
>>>Taxes on contract musicians can be devestating. Today's shelf life on
>>>bands
>>
>>>is so short that one can lose the game easily. I know there's not much
>>
>>>'cool' in the day gig, but it sure beats bein' cool and
>>>hungry/broke/divorced/homeless/addicted, as so many of my peers and
>>>friends
>>
>>>have become.
>>>Besides, working at a music store would only append debts for me :)
>>>Gannt, take something you have learned along the way and apply it to
>>>another
>>
>>>field. Look through hotjobs.com and the such, look at the descriptions
and
>>
>>>see what fits or is close to a fit. You are smart and capable, moreso
than
>>
>>>you're giving yourself credit for here.
>>>
>>>
>>>AA
>>>
>>>
>>>"EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:47d819c7$1@linux...
>>>> Most of the people I know around here in similar situations are all
>>>> working at music stores...
>>>>
>>>> David.
>>>>
>>>> Gantt Kushner wrote:
>>>>> That's why I've actually been looking for a day job. Problem is -
I'm
>>
>>>>> not
>>>>> qualified to do anything but record and play music!
>>>>>
>>>>> Gantt
>>>>>
>>>>> EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT
>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96781 is a reply to message #96774] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 22:32 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Gantt,
I made the jump about 15 years ago and then stayed in it (Tech) when I
was thinking about bailing a few years back (thank God for the medical
insurance when the medical bills piled up on my son the following year).
Went from being a frontline geek to a Director of Technology to now
havine a consuting practice for small business and technology. Along
the way I've been able to hire a half dozen of my musicians friends who
are still in the tech industry and play some on weekends. It doesn't
meet our original dreams of playing for a living, our skills sometimes
really wane, but when we play, it's play! And any one of us makes more
than we all did with our dead end jobs and gigs combined.
Family wise we've chosen to move a little further out where property and
cost of living is much less, consulting lets me do much work remotely
and go to "the city" once a week. My kids know who I am, my wife
couldn't be happier, and it looks like within the next year I'll be
putting up a new "toy barn" for the studio to reside in once again. My
son has started writing song lyrics and is learning to put them to
music, and dad is there to help along the way.
Your skills will translate. If you can handle pro studio patch bays and
tracking the traffic, modern and not so modern DAWS and their
eccentricities, then setting up the average business with their Windoz
boxes (or linux in deference to Thad), setting up office, connnecting
them to the internet and secruing it is well within your grasp...just a
new vocabulary to learn.
Long winded, but just another one saying "GO for it".
Jeff
Kushner wrote:
> I have a friend (also a musician) who's a CISCO network engineer. He's been
> encouraging me to look into it. MAybe I'll do some research...
>
> Gantt
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>
>>2 things for sure. Computers and government jobs aren't going anywhere.
>
> If I
>
>>could step backwards about 5 years, I'd have gone into high end networking
>
> I
>
>>think, and become a network architect for someone like CISCO or NORTEL -
>
>
>>they get stupid money. And it is artistic - you design and see the future
>
> of
>
>>the business client and stroke the brush on how they'll expand and use it.
>
>
>>The art is today's design with the future in mind.
>>
>>Some insights: *everything* is going to be about networks in the future
>
>
>>where business is concerned. Video Security, visual entertainment,
>>audio/audio control, data, phones, fire alarms, smoke detectors, remote
>
>
>>users.... it's all network capable these days.With the advances in storage,
>
>
>>CPU power and 10GBit network speeds here today, it will only get bigger
>
> and
>
>>the cool thing is that the fiber in the ground is still good as speeds push
>
>
>>upwards for some time. IMO that means switches/fiber equipment is gonna
>
> be
>
>>the demand, and labor on how to design it/impliment it.
>>
>>OS and computer type are a fading memory, it's all gonna be about (wired
>
> and
>
>>wireless) internet/intranet. Believe me on this. Take that CLWMC or GC gig
>
>
>>if you need to but study at night. If it's about networking, learn the 7
>
> OSI
>
>>layers, understand the IP / Subnet mask relationship, learn the ins and
>
> outs
>
>>for secured network structure especially in the wireless field.
>>
>>http://www.braindumps.com/
>>
>>http://www.brainbench.com/
>>
>>http://www.proprofs.com/
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:47d8762e$1@linux...
>>
>>>Hi Aaron,
>>>
>>>God bless you for having so much more faith in me than I have in myself!
>>>I actually checked out a job at Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center,
>
> our
>
>>>big local store (if you don't count The Guitar Center as local, which
>
> I
>
>>>don't!).
>>>The pro sound manager spent a long time telling me about the good and
>
> bad
>
>>>points of the job. Mostly, it sounded like the internet and has totally
>>>changed the business for store's like WMC. The top salesmen are probably
>>>making $50K - $60K after 7 or 8 years on the job. Doesn't sound like
>
> much
>
>>>fun to me. I know that 20 years in the studio business has probably
>>>helped
>>>me build some skills that translate in other fields. I've been doing
>
> a
>
>>>lot
>>>of thinking about where to look for possibilities.
>>>
>>>Gantt
>>>
>>>"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>
>>>>This is why I'm very thankful to be outside music as a living now. A
>>>>steady
>>>
>>>>paycheck and health insurance with a retirement plan is GOOD thing in
>
> my
>
>>>>view, and one I wondered for years if I'd have. For sure touring and
>>>>playing
>>>
>>>>offers no such long term benefits, and living on the road gets expensive.
>>>
>>>>Taxes on contract musicians can be devestating. Today's shelf life on
>
>
>>>>bands
>>>
>>>>is so short that one can lose the game easily. I know there's not much
>>>
>>>>'cool' in the day gig, but it sure beats bein' cool and
>>>>hungry/broke/divorced/homeless/addicted, as so many of my peers and
>>>>friends
>>>
>>>>have become.
>>>>Besides, working at a music store would only append debts for me :)
>>>>Gannt, take something you have learned along the way and apply it to
>>>>another
>>>
>>>>field. Look through hotjobs.com and the such, look at the descriptions
>
> and
>
>>>>see what fits or is close to a fit. You are smart and capable, moreso
>
> than
>
>>>>you're giving yourself credit for here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>AA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"EK Sound" <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote in message news:47d819c7$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>>Most of the people I know around here in similar situations are all
>>>>>working at music stores...
>>>>>
>>>>>David.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gantt Kushner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>That's why I've actually been looking for a day job. Problem is -
>
> I'm
>
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>qualified to do anything but record and play music!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gantt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>EK Sound <ask_me@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I get to work on *mostly* turd polishing. In fact, it has been several
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>years since I actually had FUN on a session... AND I turn away a LOT
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"undesireable sessions"... pretty sad. Most of the good stuff is being
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>done at the musicians home studios, we never get to see it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>David.
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Direct Note Access: Check out this amazing video from Melodyne [message #96791 is a reply to message #96749] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 11:42 |
Deej [5]
Messages: 373
Registered: March 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Man..you nailed it.
;o)
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:47d7f7e4@linux...
>
> I can imagine the sessions:
>
> "Hal, we need you to strum a chord"
>
> "Just one chord?"
>
> "Just one chord, Hal, that's right."
>
> "Uh, what chord?"
>
> "Doesn't matter."
>
> "Like this?"
>
> "Great, thanks."
>
> "OK, here I go..."
>
> "No, we're done, Hal. You can leave now."
>
> "Uh, really? OK, see you next time."
>
> "We won't be needing you any more Hal, we have the chord to work with."
>
> "wha...?"
>
> "Hal, please clear the studio, we have the bass note to record, the horn
> section stab, and then we need the rest of the week to work with your
> chord."
>
> "But I blocked out four hours..."
>
> "Sorry Hal, we're only paying you for thirty seconds. But listen, if you
> play that same chord on the piano on your way out we'll double your pay
> and give you a soda. Which is like tripling your pay!"
>
> "Yo man, you're a real jerk!"
>
> "Nice, we can use the 'yo.' Thanks Hal."
>
> "Mother#*&@ ass*&#(#^!"
>
> "Thank you. goodbye Hal."
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
>
>
>
> EK Sound wrote:
>> Ah yes, but just think of all the billable hours it would add to a
>> project to mess with all that crap!
>>
>> One more reason to work on an hourly basis... "sure, I can fix it, but
>> it's gonna cost ya" ;-)
>>
>> David.
>>
>> Neil wrote:
>>> Just like with the very first version of Auto-Tune, the genie
>>> is now out of the bottle... may as well plan to buy this new thing at
>>> some point, becasue if it CAN be done, clients will
>>> EXPECT it to be done.
>>>
>>> I notice this sort of attitude all the way down to the simplest
>>> things, such as:
>>>
>>> 1.) A project I did a couple years ago, wherein I instructed the drummer
>>> to get new heads before we started tracking... he didn't - he said "they
>>> sound fine" (IMO, they didn't - they were "useable" sounds, but they
>>> could've been a helluva lot
>>> better), as I was pointing this out during mixdown, he said
>>> "yeah, but you can fix that, right?"
>>>
>>> 2.) Another project I did awhile after that one where I told
>>> the guitar player & bass player to change strings the night before we
>>> started tracking - the guitar player did, the bass
>>> player didn't... ended up having to re-amp & process the hell out of his
>>> bass track in order to overcome the deadness of the
>>> strings.
>>>
>>> 3.) On the project I just started, when getting kick tones,
>>> we nailed a great one on the first try at mic placement
>>> (which I kinda have a good method for, but still, it's nice to nail it
>>> right away, regardless!), and the drummer was very pleased on playback
>>> of the test track, but nonetheless he happened to mention: "yeah, but
>>> still, all you really need is an impact of some kind, right?",
>>> indicating his belief that anything can be done once you have that....
>>> which is not too far off, really.
>>>
>>> It USED to be that a musician would complain if they didn't hear
>>> "their sound" coming through the monitors - now it's as if they
>>> don't care what it sounds like coming through the monitors, they
>>> expect you to be able to make it that way after the fact. Likewise, I've
>>> recorded singers that were VERY particular about
>>> how their tracks sounded and WANTED to re-do a line because their pitch
>>> was off (not usually the case with me at the board, because I'd have
>>> them re-do it while they were still on the other side of the glass if it
>>> was clear they missed it) or they didn't like a certain phrasing or
>>> dynamic, now it's pretty much: "You can fix that, right?" lol
>>>
>>> Yes I can... and soon i'll be doing every part on your entire
>>> album for you, too - you just go mix yourself a drink or grab a beer;
>>> the bar's over there in the corner.
>>>
>>> lol
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:>I think it will eventually to
>>> break
>>> entire mixes into spectral/timbral blobs
>>>> and we will be able to use it as a mastering tool.
>>>>
>>>> The world, as we know it is coming to an end. I was gonna start
>>>> intensifying
>>>
>>>
>>>> my practicing on guitar but now I don't even need to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:47d7449b$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>> For me, the biggest question....will it work on group sing harmonies
>>>>> (where
>>>>> everyone was recorded at the same time) this is one of the biggest
>>>>> things
>>>>> I have noticed around here, singers just aren't used to nailing group
>>>
>>>
>>>>> vocals
>>>>> anymore.
>>>>> Come to think of it...I really don't want to be able to fix that sort
>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>>>> stuff. Just do it right. It IS something I've noticed in the last few
>>>
>>>
>>>>> years
>>>>> though.
>>>>> Rod
>>>>> "Mr. Simplicity" <noway@jose.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is unbelievably cool on one level and sorta'
>>>>>> .........errrrrr.........I'm not really sure....scary maybe???.....on
>>>>>> another level. It is however, very amazing and I will have to have it
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>>> will die. I believe this will be a part of the every mix engineer's
>>>>>> toolkit,
>>>>>
>>>>>> since the impossible is now possible, and we will be required to fix
>>>>>> entire
>>>>>
>>>>>> clambeds......at no extra charge of course. Is overdubbing now dead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Steve Helm" <shelm@radford.edu> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47d7319a$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is truly amazing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=dna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Direct Note Access is a technology that makes the impossible
>>>>>>> possible:
>>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the first time in audio recording history you can identify and edit
>>>>>>> individual
>>>>>>> notes within polyphonic audio material. The unique access that
>>>>>>> Melodyne
>>>>>
>>>>>>> affords
>>>>>>> to pitch, timing, note lengths and other parameters of melodic notes
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> now also be afforded to individual notes within chords.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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