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Re: Multi Band Mastering in Paris [message #68796 is a reply to message #68787]

Wed, 31 May 2006 15:43

Aaron Allen

Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008

Senior Member

Actually, I'm working on that and a re release of the instructional video.
Oops, did I say that out loud ? :)
AA

"rich" <studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:447dbca3$1@linux...
>
> Thank you!! Man there is a wealth of info on this board. It would be
> great
> to someone take some of the How To stuff like this and make a reference of
> some sort... I'd buy it! Thanks again for all the help along the way!!
>
> What about a weekly post on a subject to discuss some technique /
> hardware/software
> on. For instance I've been reading about the Mside st. miking but I never
> see (never say never) it used for drum overheads - why is that??
>
>
> "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Ok, you asked for it......... PC mastering technique in Paris:
>>
>>Take your 2 track L/R master final mix file. Put the Left mix file on =
>>Channels 1,3,5 and 7. Pan hard left. Put the Right mix file on Channels
> =
>>2,4,6 and 8. Pan hard right. Using the Paris VST EQ, split the files =
>>into different bands. 1/2 will be lo pass, 3/4 will be low mid band, 5/6
> =
>>will be hi mid band, 7/8 will be hi pass. Freq will vary depending on =
>>taste and what you're going for and program material. Use your ears, =
>>nobody can hand you that in text and be completely accurate. Start with
> =
>>the Sakis Frequencies... Lo 20-90hz. Lo-Mid 90-540 Hi-Mid 540-6Khz Hi
> =
>>6-20Khz. Compress each 'set' of channels (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8) with =
>>either the Paris Compressor or with a good sounding native POST Paris =
>>VST EQ. The placement is absolutely critical. Tie all faders together =
>>using Grouping on the mixer. Do not for ANY reason split these waves =
>>into another editor unless you're ready to fight phase and time delay =
>>demons between submixes. Also, be sure you have everything selected with
> =
>>the time lock tool when you do this - same reason about phase/time.=20
>>
>>Now, the thing is, you can adjust the Gain/EQ mojo separately for each =
>>band, you can compress with different ratios, thresholds.. whatever =
>>suits the material, all in Paris. If you use the Paris compressor, be =
>>sure to match each pair of tracks' settings (1=3D2, 3=3D4, 5=3D6, =
>>7=3D8). Ditto on the eq bands, they must match, period.=20
>>
>>Now then, for more secret sauce beyond the Eq/Gain trick.. put one more
> =
>>compressor on the global but do NOT compress with it. Threshold all the
> =
>>way up, ratio all the way down. Instead, use the gain output to beat the
> =
>>snot out of the signal hitting the global bus, but ... and this is also
> =
>>super important... keep the global fader at -0.3 or -0.5 dB or you'll =
>>blister the ^&*#&$ out of the cheapo wal mart digital converters that =
>>your stuff will eventually have to suffer.=20
>>Be careful in all this, you have SO much gain shaping you can turn the =
>>wav into a baby ruth in the repro guy's editor... and no one wants to =
>>find a baby ruth floating in their pool of music. Don't smash it so much
> =
>>that it only takes 5 bits to play it back faithfully. Again, use your =
>>ears man.. pop and aggressive tunes will take more abuse than say, a =
>>ballad or classical. This is part of the 'program material dependant' =
>>thing I mentioned earlier. Don't treat a jazz standard like a Pantera =
>>tune, for example.=20
>>
>>Essentially you are creating a Waves multiband compressor, only you're =
>>using Paris to do it and it sounds.. well, .. better IMO. YMMV. If you =
>>plan to do this a lot, do your self a huge favor and create your own =
>>template PPJ you can just time lock drag the 'files' to and be on your =
>>way.=20
>>
>>For you Mac mastering gurus, just replace the Paris VST EQ with a good =
>>sounding phase coherent EQ capable of lo pass, band pass and hi pass. =
>>Sorry, there is no equal that I'm aware of to the gain trick in the =
>>Paris VST EQ, but you do have the option of using the actual Paris EQ =
>>Gain in it's place post eq/compression for each group of channels.
>>
>>If anyone needs the Paris VST EQ, I suspect Doug Wellington has it =
>>posted on his page.
>>Doug, you still out there man?
>>
>>AA,=20
>>semi kinda not really a mastering dude guy
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------=
>>----------------------
>>
>>"John" <no@no.com> wrote in message news:447cb558$1@linux...
>>>=20
>>> So what's this trick mastering technique?
>>>=20
>>> "Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>Word. I'd be willing to bet that this VST plug is somewhere in Tank's
> =
>>Steiny
>>>=20
>>>>arsenal in regular use. Matt did an amazing job of recreating the =
>>Paris
>>>=20
>>>>channel Eq/Gain mojo.
>>>>AA
>>>>
>>>>"chuck duffy" <cxsd@c.com> wrote in message news:447b8639$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Don,
>>>>>
>>>>> The vst eq bit cancels with the paris eq when phase inverted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I forced Brian T to try it when he was unconvinced.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that everyone is dubious, but matt worked 24 hours a day for
> =
>>months
>>>>> to ensure that he could perfectly emulate the paris eq.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am familiar with the "pretty colored and non-linear" comment about
> =
>>this
>>>>> plug, as I read and responded to it way back when on whatever vst =
>>forum
>>> it
>>>>> was posted in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I know this won't help anyones perception, but when I hear people=20
>>>>> wondering
>>>>> how to capture the paris special sauce - this plug is it.
>>>>>
>>>>> CHuck
>>>>>
>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinheck.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As I understand it, that EQ was pretty colored and non-linear.
>>>>>>What I need is simple, clean, accurate band splits. The Paris EQ
>>>>>>does this nicely, but the whole process is tedious to say the least.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sounds great though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"RiverLake Farms" <edna@texomaonline.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>Is the Paris EQ plug still available?
>>>>>>>Thanks, Edna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Aaron Allen" <nospam@not_here.dude> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:447948de$1@linux...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > I'm going to skip over a million details and just say that the
> =
>>secret
>>>>>>>> > is bouncing each stereo freq band with EQ only and then the =
>>next
>>>>>>>> > set etc until all are done. Then you bring the bands back to =
>>the
>>>>>>>> > editor, shut off the EQ and start working on your comp =
>>settings.
>>>>>>>> > (yes you have to do 4 passes to just create the files to do =
>>this!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DC, this can be achieved SO much faster using the Matt Craig =
>>Paris
>>> VST
>>>>>>EQ,
>>>>>>>> and in real timeif you want to adjust your bands. Have you tried
> =
>>the
>>>>> VST
>>>>>>>> Paris EQ for this application yet?
>>>>>>>> It doth rock much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message =
>>news:44793f10$1@linux...
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Ok, here's the short version. I've been working on this most =
>>of
>>> the
>>>>>>>> > day and am about to turn in, so this is very incomplete.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > It is a version of Sakis' band-split technique where you use 4
> =
>>stereo
>>>>>>>> > bands and 8 channels and 8 compressors.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I'm going to skip over a million details and just say that the
> =
>>secret
>>>>>>>> > is bouncing each stereo freq band with EQ only and then the =
>>next
>>>>>>>> > set etc until all are done. Then you bring the bands back to =
>>the
>>>>>>>> > editor, shut off the EQ and start working on your comp =
>>settings.
>>>>>>>> > (yes you have to do 4 passes to just create the files to do =
>>this!)
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > It is complicated, time-consuming, and a general PITA.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > HOWEVER, if you pay attention and are patient, the results are
>>>>>>>> > friggin' fabulous.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Sweet, huge and detailed. Just amazing really.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > There is much more to say. Later. BTW, you must leave some
>>>>>>>> > headroom in your mixes to get the most out of this (but the
>>>>>>>> > mastering guys have been saying that for years). This technique
>>>>>>>> > works so beautifully with slamming the Paris mix buss that it =
>>seems
>>>>>>>> > like it was designed to do this. Somewhere SSC is grinning...
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Paris for mastering. wadda concept.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > DC
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > DC
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>Rob Arsenault" <mani2@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>Yes DC, please do share...!!
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message=20
>>>>>>>> >>>news:4477dc50$1@linux...
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> I am discovering some *amazing* stuff trying a multiband
>>>>>>>> >>>> split/compressor in Paris. THANK YOU to Sakis and Deej for
> =
>>the
>>>>>>>> >>>> help with this.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> More to follow, but I am getting results, on very familiar=20
>>>>>>>> >>>> material
>>>>>>>> >>>> that are just making me grin from ear to ear...
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> As soon as I get this live disc out the door I will post the
> =
>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> details.
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> Paris lives!
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>> DC
>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>>>>>>>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.5296.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY>
>><DIV>Ok, you asked for it......... PC =
>>mastering=20
>>technique in Paris:</DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>Take your 2 track L/R master =
>>final mix=20
>>file. Put the Left mix file on Channels 1,3,5 and 7. Pan hard left. =
>>Put the=20
>>Right mix file on Channels 2,4,6 and 8. Pan hard right. Using the Paris
> =
>>VST EQ,=20
>>split the files into different bands. 1/2 will be lo pass, 3/4 will be =
>>low mid=20
>>band, 5/6 will be hi mid band, 7/8 will be hi pass. Freq will vary =
>>depending on=20
>>taste and what you're going for and program material. Use your ears, =
>>nobody can=20
>>hand you that in text and be completely accurate. Start with the Sakis=20
>>Frequencies... Lo 20-90hz. Lo-Mid 90-540 Hi-Mid =
>>540-6Khz Hi=20
>>6-20Khz. Compress each 'set' of channels (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8) with =
>>either the=20
>>Paris Compressor or with a good sounding native POST Paris VST EQ. The =
>>placement=20
>>is absolutely critical. Tie all faders together using Grouping on the =
>>mixer. Do=20
>>not for ANY reason split these waves into another editor unless you're =
>>ready to=20
>>fight phase and time delay demons between submixes. Also, be sure you =
>>have=20
>>everything selected with the time lock tool when you do this - same =
>>reason about=20
>>phase/time. </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>Now, the thing is, you can =
>>adjust the=20
>>Gain/EQ mojo separately for each band, you can compress with different =
>>ratios,=20
>>thresholds.. whatever suits the material, all in Paris. If you use the =
>>Paris=20
>>compressor, be sure to match each pair of tracks' settings (1=3D2, =
>>3=3D4, 5=3D6, 7=3D8).=20
>>Ditto on the eq bands, they must match, period. </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>Now then, for more secret sauce
> =
>>beyond the=20
>>Eq/Gain trick.. put one more compressor on the global but do NOT =
>>compress with=20
>>it. Threshold all the way up, ratio all the way down. Instead, use the =
>>gain=20
>>output to beat the snot out of the signal hitting the global bus, but =
>>... and=20
>>this is also super important... keep the global fader at -0.3 or -0.5 dB
> =
>>or=20
>>you'll blister the ^&*#&$ out of the cheapo wal mart digital =
>>converters=20
>>that your stuff will eventually have to suffer. </DIV>
>><DIV>Be careful in all this, you =
>>have SO much=20
>>gain shaping you can turn the wav into a baby ruth in the repro=20
>>guy's editor... and no one wants to find a baby ruth floating in =
>>their pool=20
>>of music. Don't smash it so much that it only takes 5 bits to play =
>>it back=20
>>faithfully. Again, use your ears man.. pop and aggressive tunes will =
>>take more=20
>>abuse than say, a ballad or classical. This is part of the 'program =
>>material=20
>>dependant' thing I mentioned earlier. Don't treat a jazz standard like a
> =
>>Pantera=20
>>tune, for example. </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>Essentially you are creating a Waves =
>>multiband=20
>>compressor, only you're using Paris to do it and it sounds.. well, .. =
>>better=20
>>IMO. YMMV. If you plan to do this a lot, do your self a huge favor and=20
>>create your own template PPJ you can just time lock drag the =
>>'files'=20
>>to and be on your way. </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>For you Mac mastering gurus, just =
>>replace the Paris=20
>>VST EQ with a good sounding phase coherent EQ capable of lo pass, band =
>>pass and=20
>>hi pass. Sorry, there is no equal that I'm aware of to the gain =
>>trick in=20
>>the Paris VST EQ, but you do have the option of using the actual Paris =
>>EQ Gain=20
>>in it's place post eq/compression for each group of =
>>channels.</DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>If anyone needs the Paris VST EQ, I =
>>suspect Doug=20
>>Wellington has it posted on his page.</DIV>
>><DIV>Doug, you still out there =
>>man?</DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>>size=3D3>AA, </DIV>
>><DIV>semi kinda not really a mastering dude=20
>>guy</DIV>
>><DIV>>size=3D2> ------------------------------------------------------------ ----=
>>-------------------------------</DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV>"John" <<A =
>>href=3D"mailto:no@no.com"><FONT=20
>>face=3DArial size=3D2>no@no.com</A>>size=3D2>> wrote in=20
>>message <A href=3D"news:447cb558$1@linux">>size=3D2>news:447cb558$1@linux</A>>size=3D2>...</DIV>> > So =
>>what's this=20
>>trick mastering technique? > > "Aaron Allen" <<A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:nospam@not_here.dude">>size=3D2>nospam@not_here.dude</A>> =
>>
>>wrote: >>Word. I'd be willing to bet that this VST plug is =
>>somewhere in=20
>>Tank's Steiny > >>arsenal in regular use. Matt did =
>>an=20
>>amazing job of recreating the Paris > >>channel Eq/Gain=20
>>mojo. >>AA >> >>"chuck duffy" <<A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:cxsd@c.com">>size=3D2>cxsd@c.com</A><FONT=20
>>face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote in message <A=20
>>href=3D"news:447b8639$1@linux">>size=3D2>news:447b8639$1@linux</A>>size=3D2>... >>> >>> Hi=20
>>Don, >>> >>> The vst eq bit cancels with the =
>>paris eq=20
>>when phase inverted. >>> >>> I forced Brian T to =
>>try it=20
>>when he was unconvinced. >>> >>> I know that =
>>everyone is=20
>>dubious, but matt worked 24 hours a day for months >>> to =
>>ensure=20
>>that he could perfectly emulate the paris =
>>eq. >>> >>> I=20
>>am familiar with the "pretty colored and non-linear" comment about=20
>>this >>> plug, as I read and responded to it way back when =
>>on=20
>>whatever vst forum > it >>> was posted=20
>>in. >>> >>> >>> I know this won't =
>>help=20
>>anyones perception, but when I hear people >>>=20
>>wondering >>> how to capture the paris special sauce - this =
>>plug is=20
>>it. >>> >>> =
>>CHuck >>> >>> "DC"=20
>><<A href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinheck.com">>size=3D2>dc@spammersinheck.com</A>>size=3D2>>=20
>>wrote: >>>> >>>>As I understand it, that =
>>EQ was=20
>>pretty colored and non-linear. >>>>What I need is simple, =
>>clean,=20
>>accurate band splits. The Paris EQ >>>>does this =
>>nicely,=20
>>but the whole process is tedious to say the=20
>>least. >>>> >>>>Sounds great=20
>>though. >>>> >>>>DC >>>> =
>>>>>> >>>>"RiverLake=20
>>Farms" <<A href=3D"mailto:edna@texomaonline.com">>face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>edna@texomaonline.com</A>>size=3D2>>=20
>>wrote: >>>>>Is the Paris EQ plug still=20
>>available? >>>>>Thanks,=20
>>Edna >>>>> >>>>>"Aaron Allen" =
>><<A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:nospam@not_here.dude">>size=3D2>nospam@not_here.dude</A>> =
>>wrote in=20
>>message >>>>>news:447948de$1@linux... >>>&g=
>>t;>> >>>>>>=20
>>> I'm going to skip over a million details and just say that the=20
>>secret >>>>>> > is bouncing each stereo freq =
>>band with=20
>>EQ only and then the next >>>>>> > set etc until =
>>all are=20
>>done. Then you bring the bands back to =
>>the >>>>>>=20
>>> editor, shut off the EQ and start working on your comp=20
>>settings. >>>>>> > (yes you have to do 4 passes =
>>to just=20
>>create the files to do=20
>>this!) >>>>>> >>>>>> DC, this =
>>can be=20
>>achieved SO much faster using the Matt Craig Paris >=20
>>VST >>>>EQ, >>>>>> and in real =
>>timeif you=20
>>want to adjust your bands. Have you tried the >>>=20
>>VST >>>>>> Paris EQ for this application=20
>>yet? >>>>>> It doth rock=20
>>much. >>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>AA >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>=
>>;>>> >>>>>>=20
>>"DC" <<A href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">>face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>dc@spammersinhell.com</A>>size=3D2>> wrote in=20
>>message <A href=3D"news:44793f10$1@linux">>size=3D2>news:44793f10$1@linux</A>>size=3D2>... >>>>>> =
>>> >>>>>> > Ok,=20
>>here's the short version. I've been working on this most =
>>of >=20
>>the >>>>>> > day and am about to turn in, so =
>>this is=20
>>very incomplete. >>>>>> =
>>> >>>>>>=20
>>> It is a version of Sakis' band-split technique where you use 4=20
>>stereo >>>>>> > bands and 8 channels and 8=20
>>compressors. >>>>>> =
>>> >>>>>> >=20
>>I'm going to skip over a million details and just say that the=20
>>secret >>>>>> > is bouncing each stereo freq =
>>band with=20
>>EQ only and then the next >>>>>> > set etc until =
>>all are=20
>>done. Then you bring the bands back to =
>>the >>>>>>=20
>>> editor, shut off the EQ and start working on your comp=20
>>settings. >>>>>> > (yes you have to do 4 passes =
>>to just=20
>>create the files to do this!) >>>>>>=20
>>> >>>>>> > It is complicated, time-consuming, =
>>and a=20
>>general PITA. >>>>>> =
>>> >>>>>> >=20
>>HOWEVER, if you pay attention and are patient, the results=20
>>are >>>>>> > friggin'=20
>>fabulous. >>>>>> > >>>>>> =
>>>=20
>>Sweet, huge and detailed. Just amazing =
>>really. >>>>>>=20
>>> >>>>>> > There is much more to say. =20
>>Later. BTW, you must leave some >>>>>> =
>>>=20
>>headroom in your mixes to get the most out of this (but=20
>>the >>>>>> > mastering guys have been saying =
>>that for=20
>>years). This technique >>>>>> > works so =
>>beautifully=20
>>with slamming the Paris mix buss that it =
>>seems >>>>>> >=20
>>like it was designed to do this. Somewhere SSC is=20
>>grinning... >>>>>> > >>>>>> =
>>>=20
>>Paris for mastering. wadda concept. >>>>>>=20
>>> >>>>>> > DC >>>>>>=20
>>> >>>>>> > DC >>>>>>=20
>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> =
>>>>Rob=20
>>Arsenault" <<A href=3D"mailto:mani2@nbnet.nb.ca">>face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>mani2@nbnet.nb.ca</A>>=20
>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>Yes DC, please do=20
>>share...!! >>>>>> =
>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>>>> >>>>>> >>>"DC" <<A=20
>>href=3D"mailto:dc@spammersinhell.com">>size=3D2>dc@spammersinhell.com</A>>size=3D2>> wrote in=20
>>message >>>>>>=20
>>>>>news:4477dc50$1@linux... >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> Hey=20
>>all, >>>>>> =
>>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I am discovering some *amazing* stuff trying a=20
>>multiband >>>>>> >>>> split/compressor =
>>in=20
>>Paris. THANK YOU to Sakis and Deej for=20
>>the >>>>>> >>>> help with=20
>>this. >>>>>> =
>>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> More to follow, but I am getting results, on very =
>>familiar=20
>> >>>>>> >>>>=20
>>material >>>>>> >>>> that are just =
>>making me=20
>>grin from ear to ear... >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> As soon as =
>>I get=20
>>this live disc out the door I will post the >>>>>> =
>>
>>>>>> details. >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> Paris=20
>>lives! >>>>>> =
>>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> DC >>>>>>=20
>>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>>>> >>>>>> =
>>>> >>>>>>=20
>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>&=
>>gt;>>>=20
>>I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and =
>>you? >>>>>>=20
>><A href=3D"http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html"> =
>>
>>size=3D2>http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html</A> >face=3DArial=20
>>size=3D2>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>=
>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> =
>>
>> >> >> > </BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>