Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Bomb attacks in London England
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55531 is a reply to message #55528] |
Sun, 10 July 2005 19:14   |
justcron
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
uch a price many times - Rev. War, Civil War, WWI,
>
> WWII,
>
>>>Korea, Veitnam, etc. It never gets easy. It is never glorious. My
>
> hope
>
>>>now is that the outcome for the Iraqi people is freedom to make their
>
> own
>
>>>decisions about who governs them and how - free from tyranny, and free
>
> from
>
>>>anarchist insurgents. I'm just not sure many people think there is any
>
> cost
>
>>>worth paying anymore. After all, $2.39 a gallon or which movie to go
>
> see is
>
>>>about the highest cost most people have to weigh out here in the US (by
>>>comparison to many other countries with far greater struggles in their
>>>pathes). With such a gift of opportunity for life here comes a great
>>>responsibility, one that I think we are losing perspective on as a
>
> country
>
>>>(as much of the world is also). Sometimes we will take on too much
>>>shouldering of that responsibility, and sometimes not enough, o
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55534 is a reply to message #55505] |
Sun, 10 July 2005 21:40 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ether that was destined to become a dire threat if left unchecked,
>>>with or without sanctions, we'll never know). What cost has to be paid
>>>before there is justification for force? No one really has the answer
>
> to
>
>>>that - it's an impossible question to answer from a personal
>
> perspective,
>
>>>and well grounded broad/global perspective is quite difficult to come
>
> by,
>
>>>and quite unpopular when it is there.
>>>
>>>Well, that's about enough philosophizing for me.
>>>
>>>Hey - sorry I haven't made it out your way yet - I'm in Co. Springs now.
>
> If
>
>>>you have a free afternoon after the first of August, drop me a line.
>
> Ever
>
>>>hike any 14'ers? I'm thinking of doing one before the summer ends.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Dedric
>>>
>>>
>>>On 7/9/05 9:06 AM, in article 42cfd9a1@linux, "Jamie K"
>>><Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Clinton started the air strikes, not GWB. He talked about it publicly
>
> after
>
>>>>>his term ended - his reason again was enforcing the no-fly zone.
>>>>>
>>>>>Did you go to Iraq to see what life was like there before UN sanctions
>
> to
>
>>>>>say that they destroyed the country? Interesting how Bush-haters
>>>>>conveniently blame everyone but Saddam for Iraq's problems.
>>>>
>>>>Dedric, that's a straw man argument. First, who are "Bush haters"? I
>>>>think people here are interested in smart and effective policy
>>>>decisions. It's not about personalities, per se, that's a digression.
>>>>
>>>>Second, who are these people that blame everyone but Saddam? I think
>>>>it's widely recognized that Iraq had problems due to many sources. I
>>>>haven't heard anyone praising Saddam for enlightened leadership, except
>>>>that his repressions kept the competing fundamentalists and ethnic
>>>>groups in check. Another problem echoed around the world was the cold
>>>>war and how it played out in regional conflicts over the years. Then
>>>>there's oil, religious fundamentalism, competition between local
>>>>countries, corporate interests, the list goes on. A lot of things
>>>>happened to create the Iraq of Saddam.
>>>>
>>>>You should know that bringing up Clinton does not innoculate the
>>>>following administration. Mistakes can and are propogated across
>>>>multiple administrations. The allegation is that the current
>>>>administration took advantage of the no-fly policy to try to provoke a
>>>>war. If the previous administration was part of that, then so be it. If
>>>>not, so be it. Either way, the allegation should be looked at.
>>>>
>>>>We can hold ourselves to our professed high standard, and if we fall
>>>>short, admit our own mistakes. Of course, that does not mean we should
>>>>ignore mistakes from others in the world.
>>>>
>>>>It doesn't make our policies better to pretend it's all about "hating"
>>>>this or that administration. It's really all about creating policies
>>>>that help us move toward goals we all agree are important.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Certainly France, Germany and Russia were perfectly right to defy those
>>>>>sanctions to turn a profit in Iraq. Oh, that's right they aren't the
>
> US, so
>
>>>>>they can get away with it - they are politically correct by
>
> birthright - the
>
>>>>>US isn't.
>>>>
>>>>If we criticize one country, that does not make every other country
>>>>perfect. The current situation, and situations previous, came about due
>>>>to actions from people all over the world and in Iraq. Finding faults in
>>>>others, easy as that is, does not make our mistakes go away. Recognizing
>>>>the entire range of contributing factors and acting on that information
>>>>is the only way to improve our success rate in the future.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>-Jamie K
>>>>http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On 7/8/05 1:38 PM, in article 42ced6d1$1@linux, "justcron"
>>>>><justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:42cebcb2@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dear Uncle Ricky and Brother Bud,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Please go back and read my posts carefully. They are not defending an
>>>>>>>attack
>>>>>>>due to WMD. I do think that it's possible that WMD did exist before
>
> we
>
>>>>>>>went
>>>>>>>in, but my posts are talking about violation of UN sanctions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>BTW, the UN sanctions is the flimsiest excuse for a war EVER.
>
> (Nevermind
>
>>>>>>that those very UN sanctions destroyed the country anyway)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>*************************************************
>>>>>>
>>>>>> General admits to secret air war
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jun 26, 2005
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Smith
>>>>>> Times Online (UK)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THE American general who commanded allied air forces during the
>
> Iraq
>
>>>>>>war appears to have admitted in a briefing to American and British
>
> officers
>
>>>>>>that coalition aircraft waged a secret air war against Iraq from the
>
> middle
>
>>>>>>of 2002, nine months before the invasion began.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Addressing a briefing on lessons learnt from the Iraq war
>>>>>>Lieutenant-General Michael Moseley said that in 2002 and early 2003
>
> allied
>
>>>>>>aircraft flew 21,736 sorties, dropping more than 600 bombs on 391
>
> "carefully
>
>>>>>>selected targets" before the war officially started.
>>>>>> The nine months of allied raids "laid the foundations" for the
>
> allied
>
>>>>>>victory, Moseley said. They ensured that allied forces did not have to
>
> start
>
>>>>>>the war with a protracted bombardment of Iraqi positions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If those raids exceeded the need to maintain security in the no-fly
>>>>>>zones of southern and northern Iraq, they would leave President George
>
> W
>
>>>>>>Bush and Tony Blair vulnerable to allegations that they had acted
>
> illegally.
>
>>>>>> Moseley's remarks have emerged after reports in The Sunday Times
>
> that
>
>>>>>>showed an increase in allied bombing in southern Iraq was described in
>>>>>>leaked minutes of a meeting of the war cabinet as "spikes of activity
>
> to put
>
>>>>>>pressure on the regime".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moseley told the briefing at Nellis airbase in Nebraska on July 17,
>>>>>>2003, that the raids took place under cover of patrols of the southern
>>>>>>no-fly zone; their purpose was ostensibly to protect the ethnic
>
> minorities.
>
>>>>>> A leaked memo previously disclosed by The Sunday Times, detailing a
>>>>>>meeting chaired by the prime minister and attended by Jack Straw, the
>>>>>>foreign secretary, Geoff Hoon, the then defence secretary, and Admiral
>
> Sir
>
>>>>>>Michael Boyce, chief of defence staff, indicated that the US was
>
> carrying
>
>>>>>>out the bombing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Moseley's remarks, and figures for the amount of bombs dropped
>
> in
>
>>>>>>southern Iraq during 2002, indicate that the RAF was taking as large a
>
> part
>
>>>>>>in the bombing as American aircraft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Details of the Moseley briefing come amid rising concern in the US
>
> at
>
>>>>>>the war. A new poll shows 60% of Americans now believe it was a
>
> mistake.
>
>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669640,00.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>sweeeeet!
Cheers,
-Jamie K
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
DC wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> Been doing some different projects recently.
>
> Here's a pickguard I designed.
>
> I love Mondrian (obviously...)
>
> DC
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>"when I was rollin' my own"...drunks??? ;o)
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:58:42 -0600, "Mr Simplicity"
<animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>that commie infiltrated leftie
>lying scab sucking pbs...nova program.
>
>Damn right.........and by God, we're gonna have to keep a close eye on
>those prarie home companions. (First time I ever heard the term *prarie home
>companion* the thought of a lonely housewives in a sod dwelling doing
>unspeakable things with a grouse came to mind...........but that's was back
>in the days when I was rollin' my own)
>
>;oP
>
>
>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:8mq2d15681h8s7e6cq3284corc7912thdn@4ax.com...
>> it's design was responsible for it's structural failure. as the
>> joists started to sag from the heat the bolts holding the members to
>> the outside wall together failed. also the center stairwell structure
>> was not designed to withstand the forces applied. there was a whole
>> thing on this about 2 years ago on...that commie infiltrated leftie
>> lying scab sucking pbs...nova program.
>>
>> On 10 Jul 2005 07:21:38 +1000, "Wes" <wexus6@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Do you have a source for this theory?
>> >Do you also have an explaination for why world trade center 7
>> >fell on 9/11.
>> >-Wes
>> >
>> >
>> >>In the 48 hours that bush gave Saddam before the invasion, there were
>satellite
>> >>photos showing Russian special forces trucks and transport aircraft
>moving
>> >>the stuff to Syria from the top suspected WMD site at that time. Prior
>> >to
>> >>this time, trucks were moving stuff to this site from all over Iraq.
>This
>> >>was on the national news, they showed the photos, but of corse the story
>> >>was squashed, never to be heard again. The WMD is probably sitting back
>> >>in Russia now, or in Syria. Maybe somebody can find some info on this
>on
>> >>the web.
>> >>
>> >>It was clearly stated by president Bush, that he wanted to topple Saddam
>> >>and his regime before Iraq was invaded. WMD was not the only reason we
>> >went
>> >>in. We should have immediately gone in in 1997 when Saddam kicked the
>UN
>> >>weapons inspectors out, but somebody was too busy copping a hummer in
>the
>> >>white house and giving our pulse weapons technology to the Chinese.
>> >>
>> >>Use your common sense, if they can hide tons and tons of explosives,
>isn't
>> >>it possible that they could still be hiding some WMD? WE did find some
>> >WMD,
>> >>although not a significant amount. it was about a hundred or so shells
>> >and
>> >>rockets, enough to kill thousands. They could not and would not account
>> >>for tons of WMD. Anyway I think they were moved out of Iraq, they had
>plenty
>> >>of time and they had help by other countries.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >>>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on earth who
>> >>saw
>> >>>> any
>> >>>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way they
>> >>went
>> >>>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
>clearly
>> >>>garbage).
>> >>>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co wanted
>Saddam
>> >>>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because they
>noticed
>> >>>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would give
>> >>them
>> >>>> more oil power.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
>politically,
>> >>>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own agenda,
>and
>> >>not
>> >>>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public. It
>was
>> >>>obviouly
>> >>>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq from
>tyranny"
>> >>>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem to
>care
>> >>if
>> >>>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to tell
>them
>> >>>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I
>*almost*
>> >>>would
>> >>>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached that
>> >>as
>> >>>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the U.S.
>had
>> >>>waited
>> >>>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
>eventually
>> >>>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co actually
>> >>>*didn't
>> >>>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could be in
>> >>>charge,
>> >>>> and that would give them more power politically as the country was
>> >>>restructured.
>> >>>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of time
>before
>> >>>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
>procrastinate
>> >>>for
>> >>>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole swag of
>> >>>countries
>> >>>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more". Sure
>it
>> >>was
>> >>>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth it.
>The
>> >>>way
>> >>>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell bent
>on
>> >>war
>> >>>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer would
>have
>> >>>made
>> >>>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
>actually
>> >>>ended
>> >>>> up behind it or not.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This London thing is screwed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH DOH!!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>> Kim.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>In article <42d16520@linux>, "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> Maybe when the ocean temperatures get warm enough to keep producing
> hurricanes year around, we'll *get it*.
Yep. But then Mr. Churchill put it best:
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off
as if nothing happened."
bcoops silly me, i thought this was a basketball thing.
On 11 Jul 2005 09:01:42 +1000, "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>if nothing else works,hows you b n c cable?
On 11 Jul 2005 04:34:16 +1000, "Goran"
<
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55536 is a reply to message #55513] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 01:21 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
MUST buy that things tomorow..I have lot to work with my system...sory
>for my English!
>MOBO?
>RAM?
>CPU?Rick are you www (writing while wasted) again...? :)
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pua4d1t2utr7aq961gh75cvf7f3lee6ulm@4ax.com...
> "when I was rollin' my own"...drunks??? ;o)
>
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:58:42 -0600, "Mr Simplicity"
> <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>
>>that commie infiltrated leftie
>>lying scab sucking pbs...nova program.
>>
>>Damn right.........and by God, we're gonna have to keep a close eye on
>>those prarie home companions. (First time I ever heard the term *prarie
>>home
>>companion* the thought of a lonely housewives in a sod dwelling doing
>>unspeakable things with a grouse came to mind...........but that's was
>>back
>>in the days when I was rollin' my own)
>>
>>;oP
>>
>>
>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:8mq2d15681h8s7e6cq3284corc7912thdn@4ax.com...
>>> it's design was responsible for it's structural failure. as the
>>> joists started to sag from the heat the bolts holding the members to
>>> the outside wall together failed. also the center stairwell structure
>>> was not designed to withstand the forces applied. there was a whole
>>> thing on this about 2 years ago on...that commie infiltrated leftie
>>> lying scab sucking pbs...nova program.
>>>
>>> On 10 Jul 2005 07:21:38 +1000, "Wes" <wexus6@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Do you have a source for this theory?
>>> >Do you also have an explaination for why world trade center 7
>>> >fell on 9/11.
>>> >-Wes
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>In the 48 hours that bush gave Saddam before the invasion, there were
>>satellite
>>> >>photos showing Russian special forces trucks and transport aircraft
>>moving
>>> >>the stuff to Syria from the top suspected WMD site at that time.
>>> >>Prior
>>> >to
>>> >>this time, trucks were moving stuff to this site from all over Iraq.
>>This
>>> >>was on the national news, they showed the photos, but of corse the
>>> >>story
>>> >>was squashed, never to be heard again. The WMD is probably sitting
>>> >>back
>>> >>in Russia now, or in Syria. Maybe somebody can find some info on this
>>on
>>> >>the web.
>>> >>
>>> >>It was clearly stated by president Bush, that he wanted to topple
>>> >>Saddam
>>> >>and his regime before Iraq was invaded. WMD was not the only reason
>>> >>we
>>> >went
>>> >>in. We should have immediately gone in in 1997 when Saddam kicked the
>>UN
>>> >>weapons inspectors out, but somebody was too busy copping a hummer in
>>the
>>> >>white house and giving our pulse weapons technology to the Chinese.
>>> >>
>>> >>Use your common sense, if they can hide tons and tons of explosives,
>>isn't
>>> >>it possible that they could still be hiding some WMD? WE did find
>>> >>some
>>> >WMD,
>>> >>although not a significant amount. it was about a hundred or so
>>> >>shells
>>> >and
>>> >>rockets, enough to kill thousands. They could not and would not
>>> >>account
>>> >>for tons of WMD. Anyway I think they were moved out of Iraq, they had
>>plenty
>>> >>of time and they had help by other countries.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>>> >>>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on earth
>>> >>>> >who
>>> >>saw
>>> >>>> any
>>> >>>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way
>>> >>>> they
>>> >>went
>>> >>>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
>>clearly
>>> >>>garbage).
>>> >>>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co wanted
>>Saddam
>>> >>>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because they
>>noticed
>>> >>>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would
>>> >>>> give
>>> >>them
>>> >>>> more oil power.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
>>politically,
>>> >>>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own agenda,
>>and
>>> >>not
>>> >>>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public. It
>>was
>>> >>>obviouly
>>> >>>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq from
>>tyranny"
>>> >>>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem to
>>care
>>> >>if
>>> >>>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to tell
>>them
>>> >>>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I
>>*almost*
>>> >>>would
>>> >>>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached
>>> >>>> that
>>> >>as
>>> >>>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the U.S.
>>had
>>> >>>waited
>>> >>>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
>>eventually
>>> >>>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
>>> >>>> actually
>>> >>>*didn't
>>> >>>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could be in
>>> >>>charge,
>>> >>>> and that would give them more power politically as the country was
>>> >>>restructured.
>>> >>>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of time
>>before
>>> >>>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
>>procrastinate
>>> >>>for
>>> >>>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole swag
>>> &
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55540 is a reply to message #55536] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 01:32 |
justcron
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
me time passes, and then the
7/7 occurs. Something must be changing between start up and the error. Either
heat is making a connection go bad, or heat is making a connection's resistance
go up just enough so an older power supply is unable to crank out the juice
needed to get through.
Or sumpthin like that. But cleaning the contacts could fix this sort of thing,
too... certainly wouldn't hurt for him to try your suggestions...
-steve
"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>Goran,
>I vote for checking connections first. I think 7/7 is
>a Paris hardware issue not being seen. I have corrected
>7/7 a few times by sorting out which is the master card
>and/or changing/swapping out SCSI cables to and from
>the eds cards and Mecs. Also check internal multipin
>connectors for proper links between cards.
>
>Don't buy anything until these things have been thoroughly
>checked.
>
>Good luck!
>Tom
>
> "steve the artguy" <artguy@svnartichokespittle.net> wrote in message =
>news:42d17361$1@linux...
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Sounds like it may be heat related or power supply related.
> >
> >Deej
>
> I vote for a new power supply.
>
> -steve
>
>
> >
> >"Goran" <goran.stojiljkovic@os.htnet.hr> wrote in message
> >news:42d16a28$1@linux...
> >>
> >> 2mec,3 card system on WinMe...asus Cusl2c mobo,512mb ram,p3 =
>733...system
> >is
> >> unstable..after fiew minutes of working ewerithing freeze with =
>some
> >crackle
> >> noise...after that error 7/7 . when I replace cards in pci slots
> >everithing
> >> wofks fine but only few minutes,after that..everything again..I =
>decde
> to
> >> buy a new mobo,ram and cpu..please sugestions..I need sugestions =
>right
> now
> >> beacause i MUST buy that things tomorow..I have lot to work with my
> >system...sory
> >> for my English!
> >> MOBO?
> >> RAM?
> >> CPU?
> >
> >
>
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Goran,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I vote for checking connections =
>first. I=20
>think 7/7 is</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>a Paris hardware issue not being =
>seen. I have=20
>corrected</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>7/7 a few times by sorting out which is
=
>the master=20
>card</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and/or changing/swapping out SCSI =
>cables to and=20
>from</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the eds cards and Mecs. Also =
>check=20
>internal multipin</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>connectors for proper links between=20
>cards.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don't buy anything until these things =
>have been=20
>thoroughly</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>checked.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good luck!</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV>"steve the artguy" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:artguy@svnartichokespittle.net">artguy@svnartichokespittle=
>.net</A>>=20
> wrote in message <A=20
> =
>href=3D"news:42d17361$1@linux">news:42d17361$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>"Mr
=
>
> Simplicity" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:animix_spamless_@animas.net">animix_spamless_@animas.net</=
>A>>=20
> wrote:<BR>>Sounds like it may be heat related or power supply=20
> related.<BR>><BR>>Deej<BR><BR>I vote for a new power=20
> supply.<BR><BR>-steve<BR><BR><BR>><BR>>"Goran" <<A=20
> =
>href=3D"mailto:goran.stojiljkovic@os.htnet.hr">goran.stojiljkovic@os.htne=
>t.hr</A>>=20
> wrote in =
>message<BR>>news:42d16a28$1@linux...<BR>>><BR>>>=20
> 2mec,3 card system on WinMe...asus Cusl2c mobo,512mb ram,p3=20
> 733...system<BR>>is<BR>>> unstable..after fiew minutes of =
>working=20
> ewerithing freeze with some<BR>>crackle<BR>>> =
>noise...after=20
> that error 7/7 . when I replace cards in pci=20
> slots<BR>>everithing<BR>>> wofks fine but only few =
>minutes,after=20
> that..everything again..I decde<BR>to<BR>>> buy a new mobo,ram =
>and=20
> cpu..please sugestions..I need sugestions right<BR>now<BR>>> =
>beacause i=20
> MUST buy that things tomorow..I have lot to work with=20
> my<BR>>system...sory<BR>>> for my English!<BR>>>=20
> MOBO?<BR>>> RAM?<BR>>>=20
>CPU?<BR>><BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>
>It also means being very aware of what how past
>policies contributed to bad situations and taking that into account when
>formulating new policies.
Indeed, and it's hard to find anybody who's doing well at this at this point,
from my view anyhow.
Cheers,
Kim.This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C58629.3D435090
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not so much in political discussions anymore, just hope to serve =
some respect for the background of different cultures that we have =
around the world. You see, I must take care of my blood pressure and =
heart the last year, so I must really cool down when overupheating the =
political kind of stuff are showing up.
But as I can see without heating too much up, the American people are =
also a product of the world, first of all coming from really bad times =
between rich and poor in European systems some hundred years ago, =
followed up from both south and east later on, trying to build up a new =
identity in a great "empty" land....
.....As when Moses was talking to his people and taking them out from the =
slavery in Egypt and was leading them to the land with "milk and honey", =
as he had heard so much about....
....So there's nothing new at all under the sun for some thousand of =
years with people around the whole world that will survive in freedom =
when they have really bad times, so, if people like these have heard =
about a land with "milk and honey", they will try nearly everything to =
find it....
....As it's allready are written in the first book of Moses, second =
chapter, verse 16 and 17 about God, how afraid he was about all the =
"milk, honey and forbidden fruits" he owned in the protected garden of =
Eden....=20
....As Moses was telling, God was getting Kerubean warriors with the =
flaming swords to protect the way east of Eden, that was going to the =
unknown land of Nod, wher
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55543 is a reply to message #55521] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 06:00 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
;in a great "empty" =
land....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>....As when Moses was talking =
to his=20
people and taking them out from the slavery in Egypt and =
was leading them=20
to the land with "milk and honey", as he had heard so much=20
about....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...So there's nothing new at all under =
the=20
sun for some thousand of years with people around the whole=20
world that will survive in freedom when they have really bad =
times,=20
so, if people like these have heard about a land with =
"milk and=20
honey", they will try nearly everything to find it....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...As it's allready are =
written in the=20
first book of Moses, second chapter, verse 16 and 17 about God, how =
afraid he=20
was about all the "milk, honey and forbidden fruits" he owned in =
the=20
protected garden of Eden.... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...As Moses was =
telling, God was=20
getting Kerubean warriors with the flaming swords to protect =
the way=20
east of Eden, that was going to the unknown land of Nod, where Cain was =
banished=20
to after breaking the laws in Eden when killing his brother=20
Abel....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John Steinbeck have written a modern =
novel about=20
this classical problem, I believe it was in the early fifties =
he wrote=20
it. But most of us knows this Steinbeck story just from the film of the =
same=20
name with James Dean from 1955, I think. Steinbeck have dated the =
filmstory to=20
1917, right before USA went into the first world war. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This worldwar started in 1914, so where =
was the=20
Americans in the first 3 years of that war? Yes, they were making big =
money on=20
that war. Some had good influence political to the =
American=20
gouvernment and drowned when the british passengership "Lusitania" =
was=20
attacked by a german submarine.) More reading here about the =
political=20
note USA sent to Germany after this attack: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915/lusitania1.html"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915/lusitania1.html</FONT></A><=
FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where was the Americans when the second =
worldwar=20
started in Europe in early 1938, when German troops invated Austria? It =
went=20
nearly 4 years before USA was directly involved when Japan attacked =
Pearl=20
Harbour in december '41. More historical facts =
here: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1941PEARL.html"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1941PEARL.html</FONT></A></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So yes, they had 4 =
years with big=20
money on a war they wasn't involved in. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As I'm seeing it, USA's intentions in =
both of these=20
wars was not to be involved in them at all, just making as much money as =
possible on them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So I can really see the modern =
human=20
story to Cain and Abel in Elia Kazan's film, "East of =
Eden", an=20
American story that happened right before USA really were =
involved in=20
the the first world war. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, for me, USA's behavings =
in modern=20
techical times, are just classical examples already talked about in =
the=20
first book of Moses, showed up plenty of historical times before the =
viking Leif=20
Ericsson discovered America, long before Columbus got the glory for =
doing=20
that. So historical "facts" can be so much after which =
country we're living=20
in with leaders that wish to have big glories to show the =
people;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...Granddad Bush was doing money as =
Hitlers banker=20
in USA in most of the second worldwar and official lost his=20
glory....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>....PresidentPa Bush is a great =
moneymaker in the=20
weapon industri that's selling all over the world with a =
glory...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...and now President Bush have great=20
industrifriends that's milking all over the world for =
more "milk=20
and honeyprofit", trying to make a great glory by himself.... =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...If people like these just =
could milk=20
in their own country, it would really be brilliant for the rest of the =
world,=20
but no, that's really a problem, there isn't much more to milk there in =
these=20
days, so it's outside America they now must milk if they want to grow=20
bigger...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...but as said between the lines, these =
kind of=20
people are popping up all over the world, it's just that America are =
trying to=20
go in front of them and rule them all...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...maybe it's a new form for slavery to =
make more=20
money?....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...but what do I know and can do =
in this=20
dangerous world?...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>erlilo</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"DC" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:dcicchetti@urs2.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>dcicchetti@urs2.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
skrev i en=20
meddelelse </FONT><A href=3D"news:42d1a5a2@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:42d1a5a2@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> =
Hey! Good to=20
hear from you too.<BR>> <BR>> You know, it's admirable to discuss =
all this=20
political stuff, especially<BR>> <BR>> with good manners and all, =
but=20
eventually you get to point of the<BR>> absolutely incompatible basic =
assumptions that inform our views:<BR>> <BR>> Pacifism vs. =
military=20
power<BR>> theism vs. atheism<BR>> left vs. right<BR>> history =
being=20
understandable vs. history being a series of hidden<BR>> =
conspiracies<BR>>=20
modernism vs postmodernism etc etc<BR>> <BR>> When we =
reach=20
the point where we realize that our assumptions<BR>> are simply =
different, we=20
need to let go if it, IM-ever-so-HO<BR>> <BR>> Take me and =
Jamie. I=20
think his views on much of this stuff are<BR>> completely wrong, but =
I really=20
like the guy, and would hang out<BR>> with him and make =
music.<BR>>=20
<BR>> The PARIS community is too small to get divided up into sides =
<BR>>=20
because of issues none of us can change. I cannot remember =
<BR>>=20
one person ever changing sides because of these arguments.<BR>> =
<BR>> So,=20
I would like to see us not cross the line and get hard feelings<BR>> =
because=20
the other guy won't give in. They're not gonna. =
sorry.<BR>>=20
<BR>> At the end of the day, I am here for PARIS, and I will check in =
as=20
<BR>> long as it is worthwhile to do so.<BR>> <BR>> DC<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> "erlilo" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:erlilo@online.no"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>erlilo@online.no</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>=20
wrote:<BR>>>He, he, Don, you couldn't hold up;-) Good to see you=20
back.<BR>>><BR>>>erlilo<BR>>> <BR>>>"DC" =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:dcicchetti@urs2.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>dcicchetti@urs2.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
skrev i en=20
meddelelse </FONT><A href=3D"news:42d05d0d$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:42d05d0d$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...<BR>>>><BR>>>> Hey =
guys,<BR>>>><BR>>=20
<BR>>>> Jumped back in to see how you all are doing, and it's =
the same=20
dang<BR>>>> conversation we had last=20
year...<BR>>>><BR>>>> heh=20
heh<BR>>>><BR>>>> <BR>>>> Here's what we=20
know.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Rewarding terror brings more=20
terror. (thanks Spain!)<BR>>>><BR>>>> =
Ghandi was=20
wrong. Sometimes war brings peace.<BR>>>><BR>>>> =
And the=20
beatings will continue until the terrorism=20
stops...<BR>>>><BR>>>> <BR>>>> It's easy to be =
an=20
intellectual when someone else is doing the=20
dying..<BR>>>><BR>>>> <BR>>>> (Don's=20
corollary:<BR>>>><BR>>>> It's easy to be an equipment =
snob=20
with someone else's =
money...)<BR>>>><BR>>>> <BR>>>>=20
DC<BR>>>><BR>>>> BTW, what did the G8 just give the=20
Palestinians? 50 billion??<BR>>>><BR>>>> =
Who says=20
bombing innocent civilians doesn't=20
pay?<BR>>>><BR>>>> <BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>&=
gt;<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C58629.3D435090--Hi,
If you know someone close by who has Paris 3, perhaps they could render each
of the tracks for you so all of them would have a 00:00 start point.
"Ricardo Gomez" <rcgs@tutopia.com> wrote:
>
>Hi. That's what i'm doing.
>I was looking for another solution but there's no one.
>
>Thanks
>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>>There is a software converter call PafWav. It should convert your Paris
>>audio files to.wav files. thing is, if your .paf's aren't linear from
>>00:00:00 to the end, you will have to reposition the audio files on the
>>timeline manually.
>
>
>>
>>Deej
>>
>>"Ricardo Gomez" <rcgs@tutopia.com> wrote in message news:42d09090$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hi all.
>>> I have and old Paris sesion, but actually don't have the hardware. It's
>>possible
>>> to transfer those session to somother software?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Ricardo
>>
>>
>I agree with your points,except for this one:
>The world is growing up.
Believing that the world is *growing up* would imply that lessons were
learned from past mistakes. This recurring tendency of appeasement toward
totalitarian aggression would seem to indicate otherwise.
As for comedy, I love it. the first CD I ever engineered and co-produced was
for a Brit, Owen Edgerton.
http://www.mrsinus.com/bios.html
The CD is titled Big,thick wooden Board. We started with a mono feed out of
a casio keyboard and produced around it until it became a fairly respectable
CD (at least for a wannabee engineer).
l;o)
I love comedy.
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:42d1e9c2@linux...
>
> Hey Deej,
>
> Every now and then, hit your return key twice. Makes it easier to read.
:^)
>
> You're absolutely correct that we need to know history and not repeat
> our mistakes. If you're going to go back to Hitler, go back a little
> farther and investigate why Germany was ripe for a despot to take
> control. Could WWII have been prevented with wiser post WWI policies?
> Could be.
>
> Stopping something bad before it starts doesn't automatically mean going
> in with guns blazing. It also means being very aware of what how past
> policies contributed to bad situations and taking that into account when
> formulating new policies.
>
> The world is growing up. At some point in history, if war becomes really
> necessary it's a de facto admission of failure to anticipate wisely. Are
> we there yet?
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>
> PS. Canadians are cool. We have one in our comedy group. And a Brit. If
> you're ever in the hood you should come see a show:
> http://www.acecomedy.com - http://www.acecomedy.com/orchestra
>
>
> Mr Simplicity wrote:
>
> > Jamie,
> >
> > There is alos thte argument to be made that those who ignore the lessons
of
> > history are doomed to repeat them. As I have said in other posts to this
> > thread, I believe that our position in the world as the last standing
> > superpower is a reaction to our having been repeated called on put a
stop to
> > events that were, for themost part, caused by the European proclivities
for
> > nationalistic aggression, the policy of appeasement of that aggression
and
> > the inevitable escalation of that aggression caused by said appeasement.
We
> > see it happening today. The Brits learned from this and though many of
their
> > citizens seem to have forgotten these lessons, many more have nort,
> > including those who run the government. I had this awful feeling when we
had
> > to go into Bosnia while the EU sat on their hands and did nothing while
a
> > genocide was in full swing, that, like it or not, we were going to need
to
> > hang on to and pay the taxes for this big military industrial complex,
> > because we were going to have to keep cleaning up other people's messes.
> > Having such a potentand military force also tends toward a proclivity to
use
> > it to stop something before it starts, as the Europeans should have done
> > with Hitler, but didn't do. They were both politically reluctant to be
seen
> > as *the aggressors* and preempt him, an also psychologically unwilling
to
> > fight. This led to the slaughter of millions. Though the Italian
government,
> > the Danish government and other former eastern bloc governemnts have
> > contributed a lot to our efforts to confront terrorism in Iraq and
> > elsewhere, I think if we could see some sort of indication of *lessons
> > learned* on the part of the continental western Euro nations like
France,
> > Spain and to a lesser extent Germany,we would feel a bit more
comfortable
> > with trusting that history didn't repeat itself. The Euro citizenry is,
to a
> > greater or lesser degree sticking their heads in the sand, as happened
prior
> > to WWII. We, and the Brits, have not forgotten. I am not including
Canadians
> > in this because as upset as I know they are, and as divided as they are
> > about these issues and their feelings towards us, they have, like us,
been
> > dragged repeatedly into the never ending Euroquagmire, have suffered as
we
> > have and I have to repect their feelings, whatever they may be.
> >
> > Deej
> >
> >
> > "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:42d147b4@linux...
> >
> >>Hey Dedric, thanks for the thoughtful response.
> >>
> >>Most importantly, hiking a 14er would be great, let's keep in touch on
> >>that. Also, if you're going to be heading to Denver give me a shout. If
> >>I'm heading for the Springs I'll let you know.
> >>
> >>You're right about not knowing everything. A lot of arguments made here
> >>hinge on speculation. War is often sold as the price for freedom, but
> >>the sellers are not always correct or even sincere. As responsible
> >>voters we must be able to see through smoke screens, rationalizations
> >>and lies, but that's often hard except through hindsight.
> >>
> >>Past experience teaches us to carefully examine the many motivations for
> >>war, not all of which are in the same lofty category as "the price of
> >>freedom." There are other ways to help ensure freedom that are less
> >>destructive and have less damaging consequences and those, too, must be
> >>considered. Violence breeds violence and that consequence must be taken
> >>into account as we try to find the wisest, most effective course of
> >>action toward the better world we all want. Complacency is not an
option.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >> -Jamie
> >> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>
> >>
> >>Dedric Terry wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hey Jamie,
> >>>
> >>>That was just a generalized response to the reactionary approach the
> >>>previous poster had taken. The point was, I really think (and did
> >
> > before
> >
> >>>the war talk started) that there is more to the story than has, or
> >
> > probably
> >
> >>>ever will be publicized - we'll never know for sure either way.
> >>>
> >>>The poster had come across sounding like Iraqis were doing just fine
> >
> > before
> >
> >>>we went in but are a mess now because of us and no one else - and the
> >
> > poster
> >
> >>>doesn't like Bush (to each their own of course). I'm sure the hundreds
> >
> > of
> >
> >>>thousands of Iraqis that were tortured or killed under Saddam's regime
> >
> > might
> >
> >>>disagree about their apparent well-being at the time. Certainly the
> >>>country's infrastructure and economy were better off before the war.
> >
> > War is
> >
> >>>devastating no matter how you look at it.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55545 is a reply to message #55534] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 07:43 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> >>>comparison to many other countries with far greater struggles in their
> >>>pathes). With such a gift of opportunity for life here comes a great
> >>>responsibility, one that I think we are losing perspective on as a
> >
> > country
> >
> >>>(as much of the world is also). Sometimes we will take on too much
> >>>shouldering of that responsibility, and sometimes not enough, or not
> >
> > enough
> >
> >>>of the right things, or the right way.
> >>>
> >>>I don't know if we've made all the right decisions - war isn't a
> >
> > decision
> >
> >>>that makes sense at the time in light of the loss and devastation it
> >
> > brings
> >
> >>>- it only disrupts one course to put another in motion. The best we
can
> >
> > do
> >
> >>>before hand is speculate whether the current course is destined for
> >
> > tragedy
> >
> >>>or not. After the fact, only time will tell what the new course will
> >
> > bring,
> >
> >>>but we never know if left as-is what would have happened. So, we have
> >
> > no
> >
> >>>definitive answer - esp. when put on a human scale. We didn't have a
> >
> > chart
> >
> >>>that told us what number of Jews had to die before Hitler needed to be
> >>>stopped. We didn't have a chart for Iraq either, and made the
> >
> > assumption
> >
> >>>there were direct threat dangers there - the true answer will never be
> >
> > known
> >
> >>>(WMD could be in Syria, or not at all; Saddam was working on building
> >
> > nukes,
> >
> >>>but whether that was destined to become a dire threat if left
unchecked,
> >>>with or without sanctions, we'll never know). What cost has to be paid
> >>>before there is justification for force? No one really has the answer
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>that - it's an impossible question to answer from a personal
> >
> > perspective,
> >
> >>>and well grounded broad/global perspective is quite difficult to come
> >
> > by,
> >
> >>>and quite unpopular when it is there.
> >>>
> >>>Well, that's about enough philosophizing for me.
> >>>
> >>>Hey - sorry I haven't made it out your way yet - I'm in Co. Springs
now.
> >
> > If
> >
> >>>you have a free afternoon after the first of August, drop me a line.
> >
> > Ever
> >
> >>>hike any 14'ers? I'm thinking of doing one before the summer ends.
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>Dedric
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 7/9/05 9:06 AM, in article 42cfd9a1@linux, "Jamie K"
> >>><Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Dedric Terry wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Clinton started the air strikes, not GWB. He talked about it
publicly
> >
> > after
> >
> >>>>>his term ended - his reason again was enforcing the no-fly zone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Did you go to Iraq to see what life was like there before UN
sanctions
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>>>say that they destroyed the country? Interesting how Bush-haters
> >>>>>conveniently blame everyone but Saddam for Iraq's problems.
> >>>>
> >>>>Dedric, that's a straw man argument. First, who are "Bush haters"? I
> >>>>think people here are interested in smart and effective policy
> >>>>decisions. It's not about personalities, per se, that's a digression.
> >>>>
> >>>>Second, who are these people that blame everyone but Saddam? I think
> >>>>it's widely recognized that Iraq had problems due to many sources. I
> >>>>haven't heard anyone praising Saddam for enlightened leadership,
except
> >>>>that his repressions kept the competing fundamentalists and ethnic
> >>>>groups in check. Another problem echoed around the world was the cold
> >>>>war and how it played out in regional conflicts over the years. Then
> >>>>there's oil, religious fundamentalism, competition between local
> >>>>countries, corporate interests, the list goes on. A lot of things
> >>>>happened to create the Iraq of Saddam.
> >>>>
> >>>>You should know that bringing up Clinton does not innoculate the
> >>>>following administration. Mistakes can and are propogated across
> >>>>multiple administrations. The allegation is that the current
> >>>>administration took advantage of the no-fly policy to try to provoke a
> >>>>war. If the previous administration was part of that, then so be it.
If
> >>>>not, so be it. Either way, the allegation should be looked at.
> >>>>
> >>>>We can hold ourselves to our professed high standard, and if we fall
> >>>>short, admit our own mistakes. Of course, that does not mean we should
> >>>>ignore mistakes from others in the world.
> >>>>
> >>>>It doesn't make our policies better to pretend it's all about "hating"
> >>>>this or that administration. It's really all about creating policies
> >>>>that help us move toward goals we all agree are important.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Certainly France, Germany and Russia were perfectly right to defy
those
> >>>>>sanctions to turn a profit in Iraq. Oh, that's right they aren't the
> >
> > US, so
> >
> >>>>>they can get away with it - they are politically correct by
> >
> > birthright - the
> >
> >>>>>US isn't.
> >>>>
> >>>>If we criticize one country, that does not make every other country
> >>>>perfect. The current situation, and situations previous, came about
due
> >>>>to actions from people all over the world and in Iraq. Finding faults
in
> >>>>others, easy as that is, does not make our mistakes go away.
Recognizing
> >>>>the entire range of contributing factors and acting on that
information
> >>>>is the only way to improve our success rate in the future.
> >>>>
> >>>>Cheers,
> >>>>-Jamie K
> >>>>http://www.JamieKrutz.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>On 7/8/05 1:38 PM, in article 42ced6d1$1@linux, "justcron"
> >>>>><justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:42cebcb2@linux...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Dear Uncle Ricky and Brother Bud,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Please go back and read my posts carefully. They are not defending
an
> >>>>>>>attack
> >>>>>>>due to WMD. I do think that it's possible that WMD did exist before
> >
> > we
> >
> >>>>>>>went
> >>>>>>>in, but my posts are talking about violation of UN sanctions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>BTW, the UN sanctions is the flimsiest excuse for a war EVER.
> >
> > (Nevermind
> >
> >>>>>>that those very UN sanctions destroyed the country anyway)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>*************************************************
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> General admits to secret air war
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jun 26, 2005
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Michael Smith
> >>>>>> Times Online (UK)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> THE American general who commanded allied air forces during the
> >
> > Iraq
> >
> >>>>>>war appears to have admitted in a briefing to American and British
> >
> > officers
> >
> >>>>>>that coalition aircraft waged a secret air war against Iraq from the
> >
> > middle
> >
> >>>>>>of 2002, nine months before the invasion began.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Addressing a briefing on lessons learnt from the Iraq war
> >>>>>>Lieutenant-General Michael Moseley said that in 2002 and early 2003
> >
> > allied
> >
> >>>>>>aircraft flew 21,736 sorties, dropping more than 600 bombs on 391
> >
> > "carefully
> >
> >>>>>>selected targets" before the war officially started.
> >>>>>> The nine months of allied raids "laid the foundations" for the
> >
> > allied
> >
> >>>>>>victory, Moseley said. They ensured that allied forces did not have
to
> >
> > start
> >
> >>>>>>the war with a protracted bombardment of Iraqi positions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If those raids exceeded the need to maintain security in the
no-fly
> >>>>>>zones of southern and northern Iraq, they would leave President
George
> >
> > W
> >
> >>>>>>Bush and Tony Blair vulnerable to allegations that they had acted
> >
> > illegally.
> >
> >>>>>> Moseley's remarks have emerged after reports in The Sunday Times
> >
> > that
> >
> >>>>>>showed an increase in allied bombing in southern Iraq was described
in
> >>>>>>leaked minutes of a meeting of the war cabinet as "spikes of
activity
> >
> > to put
> >
> >>>>>>pressure on the regime".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Moseley told the briefing at Nellis airbase in Nebraska on July
17,
> >>>>>>2003, that the raids took place under cover of patrols of the
southern
> >>>>>>no-fly zone; their purpose was ostensibly to protect the ethnic
> >
> > minorities.
> >
> >>>>>> A leaked memo previously disclosed by The Sunday Times, detailing
a
> >>>>>>meeting chaired by the prime minister and attended by Jack Straw,
the
> >>>>>>foreign secretary, Geoff Hoon, the then defence secretary, and
Admiral
> >
> > Sir
> >
> >>>>>>Michael Boyce, chief of defence staff, indicated that the US was
> >
> > carrying
> >
> >>>>>>out the bombing.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But Moseley's remarks, and figures for the amount of bombs dropped
> >
> > in
> >
> >>>>>>southern Iraq during 2002, indicate that the RAF was taking as large
a
> >
> > part
> >
> >>>>>>in the bombing as American aircraft.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Details of the Moseley briefing come amid rising concern in the US
> >
> > at
> >
> >>>>>>the war. A new poll shows 60% of Americans now believe it was a
> >
> > mistake.
> >
> >>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669640,00.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >
> >Cool product. In reviewing some of their standard offerings, it looks like
someone discovered graphic fractals for the first time and became entranced.
MEB
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>
>http://www.coloriffic.com/
>
>Send them an email and ask about custom guards.
>
>DC
>
>
>
>"Gary Flanigan" <gary_flangian@ce9.uscourts.gov> wrote:
>>
>>Let me know if you want to
>>>try one, and I will give you the company who did it.
>>>
>>>DC
>> I would love to know the company.
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
---=_linux42d292b8
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
OK, I'm playing around with a mono rythmn track and I decide to copy it to
another track....
So now I have 2 copies of the SAME track, right? Both panned to center.
I flip phase on one. EQ changes (comb filtering?) it sounds like the tracks
pull more to the center of the image (which they should be anyway)but I would
think the two would cancel each other out if I flip phase on one.
What's up here? Possibly both tracks aren't starting exactly on zero of the
timeline and are offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same exact level?
Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? ;0)
Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!
Mike, The UnPhaseable
---=_linux42d292b8
Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="ad.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ad.jpg"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|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55550 is a reply to message #55543] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 10:36 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ne.
>>
>> What's up here? Possibly both tracks aren't starting exactly on zero of
the
>> timeline and are offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same exact level?
>>
>> Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? ;0)
>>
>> Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!
>>
>> Mike, The UnPhaseable
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>>It's true.
I didn't like any of their stock stuff.
Just out of the blue I asked them to do a custom for me and they
said sure!
DC
no skulls, boobies, knives, guns, crosses, pentagrams, or corporate
logos on my guitar, mate!
"Michael Broyles" <mbroyles@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>Cool product. In reviewing some of their standard offerings, it looks like
>someone discovered graphic fractals for the first time and became entranced.
>
>MEB
>
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>>
>>http://www.coloriffic.com/
>>
>>Send them an email and ask about custom guards.
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>
>>"Gary Flanigan" <gary_flangian@ce9.uscourts.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>>Let me know if you want to
>>>>try one, and I will give you the company who did it.
>>>>
>>>>DC
>>> I would love to know the company.
>>
>Jamie K <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>our mistakes. If you're going to go back to Hitler, go back a little
>farther and investigate why Germany was ripe for a despot to take
>control. Could WWII have been prevented with wiser post WWI policies?
>Could be.
Absolutely. The british and french went way overboard with
reparations in the Treaty of Versailles. I am not sure what the
US could have done about that.
>Stopping something bad before it starts doesn't automatically mean going
>in with guns blazing. It also means being very aware of what how past
>policies contributed to bad situations and taking that into account when
>formulating new policies.
Assuming that past situations never required violence to solve...
You assume they must not, because all violence is failure.
This, of course, is ideology, not necessarily fact.
It's like my friend the Aikido teacher.
Aikido is based on the belief of loving
protection for all people, even your attacker. It is not designed to
injure the attacker, just convince him that attacking you isn't going to
work.
Now, I ask this guy, what do you do when you simply must injure
the guy to stop the fight? Well, you do not need to do that often,
but if you do, then you injure them as little as possible. Do you kill
them if you must, I asked? Only to save an innocent life, and
only if all else has failed.
Now, Aikido is the most powerful defense system I know of, so these
situations will be rare, but it was refreshing to see that they operate
in the real world, not the ideological one.
So, that is my solution to international relations:
Aikido first resort, karate second, and gun-fu if you must...
>The world is growing up. At some point in history, if war becomes really
>necessary it's a de facto admission of failure to anticipate wisely. Are
>we there yet?
It's only de facto if the world has, in fact, grown up. I can tell you
that the islamic middle east is 1000 years behind Ghandi on this
subject.
take care
DCI did a search but couldn't find a topic on this.
I was wondering if anyone is using Paris with any other AD converters such
as Apogee or Brand X?
Is it possible and if so could someone be so kind as to share their
experiences and setups.
Thank You!
Paul O'Connor
P. M. Pr
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55559 is a reply to message #55540] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 12:21 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
>>>actually
>>>> >>>ended
>>>> >>>> up behind it or not.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> This London thing is screwed.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH DOH!!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Cheers,
>>>> >>>> Kim.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>Locked will cancel...drag in the segment...not the file itself...makes a difference
"Mike Claytor" <claytor@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>So the locked audio files should cancel, correct?
>
>
>
>"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Lock 'em up Danno.
>>
>> "Mike Claytor" <claytor@nospam.com> wrote in message =
>>news:42d2aea7$1@linux...
>>
>> No, no lock tool. Just drug a .wav file into the track.
>>
>>
>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>> >Did you use the Lock tool to during the copy?
>> >
>> >Mike Claytor wrote:
>> >> OK, I'm playing around with a mono rythmn track and I decide to =
>>copy it
>> to
>> >> another track....
>> >>=20
>> >> So now I have 2 copies of the SAME track, right? Both panned to =
>>center.
>> >>=20
>> >> I flip phase on one. EQ changes (comb filtering?) it sounds like =
>>the tracks
>> >> pull more to the center of the image (which they should be =
>>anyway)but
>> I would
>> >> think the two would cancel each other out if I flip phase on one.
>> >>=20
>> >> What's up here? Possibly both tracks aren't starting exactly on =
>>zero of
>> the
>> >> timeline and are offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same =
>>exact level?
>> >>=20
>> >> Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? ;0)
>> >>=20
>> >> Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!
>> >>=20
>> >> Mike, The UnPhaseable
>> >>=20
>> >>=20
>> >>=20
>> >> =
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>> >>=20
>>
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
>></HEAD>
>><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lock 'em up Danno.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>> <DIV>"Mike Claytor" <<A=20
>> href=3D"mailto:claytor@nospam.com">claytor@nospam.com</A>> wrote in =
>>message=20
>> <A =
>>href=3D"news:42d2aea7$1@linux">news:42d2aea7$1@linux</A>...</DIV><BR>No,
>=
>>no=20
>> lock tool. Just drug a .wav file into the track.<BR><BR><BR>John =
>><<A=20
>> href=3D"mailto:no@no.com">no@no.com</A>> wrote:<BR>>Did you use =
>>the Lock=20
>> tool to during the copy?<BR>><BR>>Mike Claytor =
>>wrote:<BR>>> OK,=20
>> I'm playing around with a mono rythmn track and I decide to copy=20
>> it<BR>to<BR>>> another track....<BR>>> <BR>>> So now =
>>I have=20
>> 2 copies of the SAME track, right? Both panned to center.<BR>>>=20
>> <BR>>> I flip phase on one. EQ changes (comb filtering?) it =
>>sounds like=20
>> the tracks<BR>>> pull more to the center of the image (which =
>>they should=20
>> be anyway)but<BR>I would<BR>>> think the two would cancel each =
>>other out=20
>> if I flip phase on one.<BR>>> <BR>>> What's up here? =
>>Possibly both=20
>> tracks aren't starting exactly on zero of<BR>the<BR>>> timeline =
>>and are=20
>> offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same exact level?<BR>>> =
>>
>> <BR>>> Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? =
>>;0)<BR>>>=20
>> <BR>>> Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!<BR>>>=20
>> <BR>>> Mike, The UnPhaseable<BR>>> <BR>>> =
>><BR>>>=20
>> <BR>>>=20
>> =
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ <=
>>BR>>>=20
>> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>>
>>
>i look over my shoulder to see if the traffic was clear and got into a
head on accident...again; it happens every time...ya'd think i'd
learn.
On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:21:22 -0500, Brian Carter
<bricrter@skedaddlemindspring.com> wrote:
>In article <42d16520@linux>, "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>
>> Maybe when the ocean temperatures get warm enough to keep producing
>> hurricanes year around, we'll *get it*.
>
>
> Yep. But then Mr. Churchill put it best:
>
>
> "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off
>as if nothing happened."
>
>
>bcCool.
Yeah, this is something I've never tried. The .wav file wasn't created in
Paris. Wasn't a segment. I just dragged it to the empty track and started
playing with it.
Just for my own edification, what's the dif between a locked file and unlocked
file? I would intuitively think that you can make changes to the unlocked
but not the locked, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Sorry, bad sinus day, I'm a little thick between the ears!
Mike
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincon@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Locked will cancel...drag in the segment...not the file itself...makes a
difference
>"Mike Claytor" <claytor@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>So the locked audio files should cancel, correct?
>>
>>
>>
>>"Tom Bruhl" <arpegio@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Lock 'em up Danno.
>>>
>>> "Mike Claytor" <claytor@nospam.com> wrote in message =
>>>news:42d2aea7$1@linux...
>>>
>>> No, no lock tool. Just drug a .wav file into the track.
>>>
>>>
>>> John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>> >Did you use the Lock tool to during the copy?
>>> >
>>> >Mike Claytor wrote:
>>> >> OK, I'm playing around with a mono rythmn track and I decide to =
>>>copy it
>>> to
>>> >> another track....
>>> >>=20
>>> >> So now I have 2 copies of the SAME track, right? Both panned to =
>>>center.
>>> >>=20
>>> >> I flip phase on one. EQ changes (comb filtering?) it sounds like
=
>>>the tracks
>>> >> pull more to the center of the image (which they should be =
>>>anyway)but
>>> I would
>>> >> think the two would cancel each other out if I flip phase on one.
>>> >>=20
>>> >> What's up here? Possibly both tracks aren't starting exactly on =
>>>zero of
>>> the
>>> >> timeline and are offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same =
>>>exact level?
>>> >>=20
>>> >> Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? ;0)
>>> >>=20
>>> >> Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!
>>> >>=20
>>> >> Mike, The UnPhaseable
>>> >>=20
>>> >>=20
>>> >>=20
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55564 is a reply to message #55519] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 16:04 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
opportunity
> for western breat-beating and the repetition of Marxist boilerplate.
>
> As a matter of fact, I consider it unethical to throw this stuff up in
> this context.
>
> The issue at hand is terrorism.
>
> So, do we act evolved (as Jamie suggets) in the face of 10th
> century ghouls who would kill your family to get on the evening
> news, and repeat the pacifist lines about war always being a failure,
> and reward terrorism by trying to negotiate with it? Or do both
> parties have to be evolved for any hope of succeeding?
>
> It's really quite simple, they want to continue to run murderous
> islamic theocracies in our age, and they fully intend to negotiate
> via the bomb and the gun until all demands are met.
>
>
> If I was running the world, I would drill, drill, drill for oil, right in
> front
> of these yuppie scum on the coasts who are now preventing it
> (with the Bush's help btw) then I would utterly outlaw all imports
> from any islamic theocracy or dictatorship. I would also start a huge
> government-funded project to develop oil-alternatives.
>
> And I would threaten, and carry out, massive retaliation for any acts
> of terrorism while divesting the west of all interest in the bloody
> cesspool of crazy people that we call the middle east.
>
>
> take care of yourself!
>
> DC
>
>Mr Simplicity wrote:
> I agree with your points,except for this one:
>
>
>>The world is growing up.
>
>
> Believing that the world is *growing up* would imply that lessons were
> learned from past mistakes. This recurring tendency of appeasement toward
> totalitarian aggression would seem to indicate otherwise.
This forum is one example of one process of maturing in world relations.
We've heard from folks in Australia, Norway, Canada and the USA at
least, and a variety of views from this group have been expressed from
the comforts of our own locales, all within hours of the bombing in
England. Such speedy worldwide communication between individuals who
share things in common other than nationality is an important step.
We have a long way to go to include everyone, and we have a long way to
go to remove the opportunities for abuse of power around the world. As
is often quoted the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and that
includes being vigilant about our own governments.
Recasting Saddam as Hitler and Blair or Bush as Churchill doesn't
accurately depict the recent events in Iraq. Whether such events have
been close enough to make broad pronouncements about appeasement is
debatable. Saddam had already been driven out of Kuwait and was pinned
down with air patrols and weapons inspections that apparently worked.
Even though there were significant problems, that's not exactly
"appeasement" in the Hitlerian sense.
> As for comedy, I love it. the first CD I ever engineered and co-produced was
> for a Brit, Owen Edgerton.
>
> http://www.mrsinus.com/bios.html
Neato!
> The CD is titled Big,thick wooden Board. We started with a mono feed out of
> a casio keyboard and produced around it until it became a fairly respectable
> CD (at least for a wannabee engineer).
>
> l;o)
>
>
> I love comedy.
I think you'd really dig A.C.E. I have a blast doing music for them. If
you're into long form improv you might enjoy our improv troupe "N2O."
Cheers,
-Jamie K
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55565 is a reply to message #55550] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 15:25 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> "Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:42d1e9c2@linux...
>
>>Hey Deej,
>>
>>Every now and then, hit your return key twice. Makes it easier to read.
>
> :^)
>
>>You're absolutely correct that we need to know history and not repeat
>>our mistakes. If you're going to go back to Hitler, go back a little
>>farther and investigate why Germany was ripe for a despot to take
>>control. Could WWII have been prevented with wiser post WWI policies?
>>Could be.
>>
>>Stopping something bad before it starts doesn't automatically mean going
>>in with guns blazing. It also means being very aware of what how past
>>policies contributed to bad situations and taking that into account when
>>formulating new policies.
>>
>>The world is growing up. At some point in history, if war becomes really
>>necessary it's a de facto admission of failure to anticipate wisely. Are
>>we there yet?
>>
>>Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>
>>PS. Canadians are cool. We have one in our comedy group. And a Brit. If
>>you're ever in the hood you should come see a show:
>>http://www.acecomedy.com - http://www.acecomedy.com/orchestra
>>
>>
>>Mr Simplicity wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jamie,
>>>
>>>There is alos thte argument to be made that those who ignore the lessons
>
> of
>
>>>history are doomed to repeat them. As I have said in other posts to this
>>>thread, I believe that our position in the world as the last standing
>>>superpower is a reaction to our having been repeated called on put a
>
> stop to
>
>>>events that were, for themost part, caused by the European proclivities
>
> for
>
>>>nationalistic aggression, the policy of appeasement of that aggression
>
> and
>
>>>the inevitable escalation of that aggression caused by said appeasement.
>
> We
>
>>>see it happening today. The Brits learned from this and though many of
>
> their
>
>>>citizens seem to have forgotten these lessons, many more have nort,
>>>including those who run the government. I had this awful feeling when we
>
> had
>
>>>to go into Bosnia while the EU sat on their hands and did nothing while
>
> a
>
>>>genocide was in full swing, that, like it or not, we were going to need
>
> to
>
>>>hang on to and pay the taxes for this big military industrial complex,
>>>because we were going to have to keep cleaning up other people's messes.
>>>Having such a potentand military force also tends toward a proclivity to
>
> use
>
>>>it to stop something before it starts, as the Europeans should have done
>>>with Hitler, but didn't do. They were both politically reluctant to be
>
> seen
>
>>>as *the aggressors* and preempt him, an also psychologically unwilling
>
> to
>
>>>fight. This led to the slaughter of millions. Though the Italian
>
> government,
>
>>>the Danish government and other former eastern bloc governemnts have
>>>contributed a lot to our efforts to confront terrorism in Iraq and
>>>elsewhere, I think if we could see some sort of indication of *lessons
>>>learned* on the part of the continental western Euro nations like
>
> France,
>
>>>Spain and to a lesser extent Germany,we would feel a bit more
>
> comfortable
>
>>>with trusting that history didn't repeat itself. The Euro citizenry is,
>
> to a
>
>>>greater or lesser degree sticking their heads in the sand, as happened
>
> prior
>
>>>to WWII. We, and the Brits, have not forgotten. I am not including
>
> Canadians
>
>>>in this because as upset as I know they are, and as divided as they are
>>>about these issues and their feelings towards us, they have, like us,
>
> been
>
>>>dragged repeatedly into the never ending Euroquagmire, have suffered as
>
> we
>
>>>have and I have to repect their feelings, whatever they may be.
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:42d147b4@linux...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hey Dedric, thanks for the thoughtful response.
>>>>
>>>>Most importantly, hiking a 14er would be great, let's keep in touch on
>>>>that. Also, if you're going to be heading to Denver give me a shout. If
>>>>I'm heading for the Springs I'll let you know.
>>>>
>>>>You're right about not knowing everything. A lot of arguments made here
>>>>hinge on speculation. War is often sold as the price for freedom, but
>>>>the sellers are not always correct or even sincere. As responsible
>>>>voters we must be able to see through smoke screens, rationalizations
>>>>and lies, but that's often hard except through hindsight.
>>>>
>>>>Past experience teaches us to carefully examine the many motivations for
>>>>war, not all of which are in the same lofty category as "the price of
>>>>freedom." There are other ways to help ensure freedom that are less
>>>>destructive and have less damaging consequences and those, too, must be
>>>>considered. Violence breeds violence and that consequence must be taken
>>>>into account as we try to find the wisest, most effective course of
>>>>action toward the better world we all want. Complacency is not an
>
> option.
>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>> -Jamie
>>>> http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hey Jamie,
>>>>>
>>>>>That was just a generalized response to the reactionary approach the
>>>>>previous poster had taken. The point was, I really think (and did
>>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55566 is a reply to message #55545] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 16:56 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
/>
>>>before
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the war talk started) that there is more to the story than has, or
>>>
>>>probably
>>>
>>>
>>>>>ever will be publicized - we'll never know for sure either way.
>>>>>
>>>>>The poster had come across sounding like Iraqis were doing just fine
>>>
>>>before
>>>
>>>
>>>>>we went in but are a mess now because of us and no one else - and the
>>>
>>>poster
>>>
>>>
>>>>>doesn't like Bush (to each their own of course). I'm sure the hundreds
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>thousands of Iraqis that were tortured or killed under Saddam's regime
>>>
>>>might
>>>
>>>
>>>>>disagree about their apparent well-being at the time. Certainly the
>>>>>country's infrastructure and economy were better off before the war.
>>>
>>>War is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>devastating no matter how you look at it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Both sides of the circumstances sadden me - tyrannical rule is more
>
> than
>
>>>>>anyone should have to endure, and certainly would be more than most
>>>>>Americans could bear in our desire to have no one guide, much less
>>>
>>>restrict
>>>
>>>
>>>>>our personal decisions; and if war is the only way to be free (as our
>>>>>predecessors found in the 1700's), freedom comes at a high price. As a
>>>>>country we've paid such a price many times - Rev. War, Civil War, WWI,
>>>
>>>WWII,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Korea, Veitnam, etc. It never gets easy. It is never glorious. My
>>>
>>>hope
>>>
>>>
>>>>>now is that the outcome for the Iraqi people is freedom to make their
>>>
>>>own
>>>
>>>
>>>>>decisions about who governs them and how - free from tyranny, and free
>>>
>>>from
>>>
>>>
>>>>>anarchist insurgents. I'm just not sure many people think there is any
>>>
>>>cost
>>>
>>>
>>>>>worth paying anymore. After all, $2.39 a gallon or which movie to go
>>>
>>>see is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>about the highest cost most people have to weigh out here in the US (by
>>>>>comparison to many other countries with far greater struggles in their
>>>>>pathes). With such a gift of opportunity for life here comes a great
>>>>>responsibility, one that I think we are losing perspective on as a
>>>
>>>country
>>>
>>>
>>>>>(as much of the world is also). Sometimes we will take on too much
>>>>>shouldering of that responsibility, and sometimes not enough, or not
>>>
>>>enough
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of the right things, or the right way.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know if we've made all the right decisions - war isn't a
>>>
>>>decision
>>>
>>>
>>>>>that makes sense at the time in light of the loss and devastation it
>>>
>>>brings
>>>
>>>
>>>>>- it only disrupts one course to put another in motion. The best we
>
> can
>
>>>do
>>>
>>>
>>>>>before hand is speculate whether the current course is destined for
>>>
>>>tragedy
>>>
>>>
>>>>>or not. After the fact, only time will tell what the new course will
>>>
>>>bring,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>but we never know if left as-is what would have happened. So, we have
>>>
>>>no
>>>
>>>
>>>>>definitive answer - esp. when put on a human scale. We didn't have a
>>>
>>>chart
>>>
>>>
>>>>>that told us what number of Jews had to die before Hitler needed to be
>>>>>stopped. We didn't have a chart for Iraq either, and made the
>>>
>>>assumption
>>>
>>>
>>>>>there were direct threat dangers there - the true answer will never be
>>>
>>>known
>>>
>>>
>>>>>(WMD could be in Syria, or not at all; Saddam was working on building
>>>
>>>nukes,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>but whether that was destined to become a dire threat if left
>
> unchecked,
>
>>>>>with or without sanctions, we'll never know). What cost has to be paid
>>>>>before there is justification for force? No one really has the answer
>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>that - it's an impossible question to answer from a personal
>>>
>>>perspective,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and well grounded broad/global perspective is quite difficult to come
>>>
>>>by,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and quite unpopular when it is there.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, that's about enough philosophizing for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hey - sorry I haven't made it out your way yet - I'm in Co. Springs
>
> now.
>
>>>If
>>>
>>>
>>>>>you have a free afternoon after the first of August, drop me a line.
>>>
>>>Ever
>>>
>>>
>>>>>hike any 14'ers? I'm thinking of doing one before the summer ends.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Dedric
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 7/9/05 9:06 AM, in article 42cfd9a1@linux, "Jamie K"
>>>>><Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Dedric Terry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Clinton started the air strikes, not GWB. He talked about it
>
> publicly
>
>>>after
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>his term ended - his reason again was enforcing the no-fly zone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Did you go to Iraq to see what life was like there before UN
>
> sanctions
>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>say that they destroyed the country? Interesting how Bush-haters
>>>>>>>conveniently blame everyone but Saddam for Iraq's problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dedric, that's a straw man argument. First, who are "Bush haters"? I
>>>>>>think people here are interested in smart and effective policy
>>>>>>decisions. It's not about personalities, per se, that's a digression.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Second, who are these people that blame everyone but Saddam? I think
>>>>>>it's widely recognized that Iraq had problems due to many sources. I
>>>>>>haven't heard anyone praising Saddam for enlightened leadership,
>
> except
>
>>>>>>that his repressions kept the competing fundamentalists and ethnic
>>>>>>groups in check. Another problem echoed around the world was the cold
>>>>>>war and how it played out in regional conflicts over the years. Then
>>>>>>there's oil, religious fundamentalism, competition between local
>>>>>>countries, corporate interests, the list goes on. A lot of things
>>>>>>happened to create the Iraq of Saddam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You should know that bringing up Clinton does not innoculate the
>>>>>>following administration. Mistakes can and are propogated across
>>>>>>multiple administrations. The allegation is that the current
>>>>>>administration took advantage of the no-fly policy to try to provoke a
>>>>>>war. If the previous administration was part of that, then so be it.
>
> If
>
>>>>>>not, so be it. Either way, the allegation should be looked at.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We can hold ourselves to our professed high standard, and if we fall
>>>>>>short, admit our own mistakes. Of course, that does not mean we should
>>>>>>ignore mistakes from others in the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It doesn't make our policies better to pretend it's all about "hating"
>>>>>>this or that administration. It's really all about creating policies
>>>>>>that help us move toward goals we all agree are important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Certainly France, Germany and Russia were perfectly right to defy
>
> those
>
>>>>>>>sanctions to turn a profit in Iraq. Oh, that's right they aren't the
>>>
>>>US, so
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>they can get away with it - they are politically correct by
>>>
>>>birthright - the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>US isn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If we criticize one country, that does not make every other country
>>>>>>perfect. The current situation, and situations previous, came about
>
> due
>
>>>>>>to actions from people all over the world and in Iraq. Finding faults
>
> in
>
>>>>>>others, easy as that is, does not make our mistakes go away.
>
> Recognizing
>
>>>>>>the entire range of contributing factors and acting on that
>
> information
>
>>>>>>is the only way to improve our success rate in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>-Jamie K
>>>>>>http://www.JamieKrutz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 7/8/05 1:38 PM, in article 42ced6d1$1@linux, "justcron"
>>>>>>><justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:42cebcb2@linux...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Dear Uncle Ricky and Brother Bud,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Please go back and read my posts carefully. They are not defending
>
> an
>
>>>>>>>>>attack
>>>>>>>>>due to WMD. I do think that it's possible that WMD did exist before
>>>
>>>we
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>went
>>>>>>>>>in, but my posts are talking about violation of UN sanctions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>BTW, the UN sanctions is the flimsiest excuse for a war EVER.
>>>
>>>(Nevermind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>that those very UN sanctions destroyed the country anyway)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>*************************************************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> General admits to secret air war
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jun 26, 2005
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Smith
>>>>>>>> Times Online (UK)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> THE American general who commanded allied air forces during the
>>>
>>>Iraq
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>war appears to have admitted in a briefing to American and British
>>>
>>>officers
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>that coalition aircraft waged a secret air war against Iraq from the
>>>
>>>middle
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>of 2002, nine months before the invasion began.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Addressing a briefing on lessons learnt from the Iraq war
>>>>>>>>Lieutenant-General Michael Moseley said that in 2002 and early 2003
>>>
>>>allied
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>aircraft flew 21,736 sorties, dropping more than 600 bombs on 391
>>>
>>>"carefully
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>selected targets" before the war officially started.
>>>>>>>> The nine months of allied raids "laid the foundations" for the
>>>
>>>allied
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>victory, Moseley said. They ensured that allied forces did not have
>
> to
>
>>>start
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>the war with a protracted bombardment of Iraqi positions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If those raids exceeded the need to maintain security in the
>
> no-fly
>
>>>>>>>>zones of southern and northern Iraq, they would leave President
>
> George
>
>>>W
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Bush and Tony Blair vulnerable to allegations that they had acted
>>>
>>>illegally.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Moseley's remarks have emerged after reports in The Sunday Times
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>showed an increase in allied bombing in southern Iraq was described
>
> in
>
>>>>>>>>leaked minutes of a meeting of the war cabinet as "spikes of
>
> activity
>
>>>to put
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>pressure on the regime".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Moseley told the briefing at Nellis airbase in Nebraska on July
>
> 17,
>
>>>>>>>>2003, that the raids took place under cover of patrols of the
>
> southern
>
>>>>>>>>no-fly zone; their purpose was ostensibly to protect the ethnic
>>>
>>>minorities.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> A leaked memo previously disclosed by The Sunday Times, detailing
>
> a
>
>>>>>>>>meeting chaired by the prime minister and attended by Jack Straw,
>
> the
>
>>>>>>>>foreign secretary, Geoff Hoon, the then defence secretary, and
>
> Admiral
>
>>>Sir
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Michael Boyce, chief of defence staff, indicated that the US was
>>>
>>>carrying
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>out the bombing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But Moseley's remarks, and figures for the amount of bombs dropped
>>>
>>>in
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>southern Iraq during 2002, indicate that the RAF was taking as large
>
> a
>
>>>part
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>in the bombing as American aircraft.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Details of the Moseley briefing come amid rising concern in the US
>>>
>>>at
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>the war. A new poll shows 60% of Americans now believe it was a
>>>
>>>mistake.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1669640,00.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>
>Thanks Don, it would be fun to jam sometime.
Actually, I don't think we're all that far apart on a lot of issues.
There's just a couple of perspective things where you're looking at a
different end of the elephant.
Cheers,
-Jamie K
http://www.JamieKrutz.com
DC wrote:
> Hey! Good to hear from you too.
>
> You know, it's admirable to discuss all this political stuff, especially
>
> with good manners and all, but eventually you get to point of the
> absolutely incompatible basic assumptions that inform our views:
>
> Pacifism vs. military power
> theism vs. atheism
> left vs. right
> history being understandable vs. history being a series of hidden
> conspiracies
> modernism vs postmodernism etc etc
>
> When we reach the point where we realize that our assumptions
> are simply different, we need to let go if it, IM-ever-so-HO
>
> Take me and Jamie. I think his views on much of this stuff are
> completely wrong, but I really like the guy, and would hang out
> with him and make music.
>
> The PARIS community is too small to get divided up into sides
> because of issues none of us can change. I cannot remember
> one person ever changing sides because of these arguments.
>
> So, I would like to see us not cross the line and get hard feelings
> because the other guy won't give in. They're not gonna. sorry.
>
> At the end of the day, I am here for PARIS, and I will check in as
> long as it is worthwhile to do so.
>
> DC
>
>
>
>
>
> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>
>>He, he, Don, you couldn't hold up;-) Good to see you back.
>>
>>erlilo
>>
>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d05d0d$1@linux...
>>
>>>Hey guys,
>>>
>
>
>>>Jumped back in to see how you all are doing, and it's the same dang
>>>conversation we had last year...
>>>
>>>heh heh
>>>
>>>
>>>Here's what we know.
>>>
>>>Rewarding terror brings more terror. (thanks Spain!)
>>>
>>>Ghandi was wrong. Sometimes war brings peace.
>>>
>>>And the beatings will continue until the terrorism stops...
>>>
>>>
>>>It's easy to be an intellectual when someone else is doing the dying..
>>>
>>>
>>>(Don's corollary:
>>>
>>>It's easy to be an equipment snob with someone else's money...)
>>>
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>BTW, what did the G8 just give the Palestinians? 50 billion??
>>>
>>>Who says bombing innocent civilians doesn't pay?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>He, he Don, I knew most of your answers on forehand and I generally
>over-simpificated my writings after my own thoughts since there have been
>som many coming here on this side for some years, talking like America was
>in war from the beginning in both worldwars we had the last century.
I just don't understand what is important about who was in that war
first. After all, it was a european war at first wasn't it?
It seems as if we are either criticized for selling the arms to defend
europe (greed) or criticized for not joining in early enough (moral
cowardice)
Now invert things, and ask yourself, if america did not sell the arms
to free europe and russia could we not be criticized for moral
cowardice as well? If we jumped right in as soon as Hitler
commited his first act of war, couldn't we then be accused of being
bloodthirsty imperialists looking to rule europe?
In reality, this is all about socialists trying to bury america, and you
are using these terrorists to do it.
I hate to say it, but it is true. EVERY single time some horrible
act is committed against the west, off we go again with the litany
of america's so-called sins. Not just on this list, but in so many others
and in the media.
Erling. It's bull. All of it. Bull.
If you want to discuss our many mistakes, you may do so, but not in
the context of the dead bodies still being pulled out of the
stench of the tube tunnels. Have some decency and wait a bit
would you?
Unless of course, you believe that we are to blame for every act
of every crazy evil bastard with a bomb. Unless of course, you
believe that all these things are simple revenge for the Dulles
brothers and the Bay of Pigs.
And if you believe those things, you are wrong, and if you do not
reconsider them, you will become part of the evil in the world.
Have you no heart for those innocent people? We STILL have
to discuss WWI, WWII, and some loudmouth fish-head tourist you
met, and God knows what else??
Let's see, next time some innicent people are killed by an
islamofascist bomber, what can we bring up??
Fill in the blanks __________________
hee hee hee Let's all gang up on the americans...
Erling, you should be ashamed of yourself.
>Yes, I know very well about the Marshall-help and all the other helping
>hands Europe have got up against the years, but most of you Americans had
>plenty of family in Europe and blood is allways thicker than water, as far
>as I remember.
You think THAT was the motivation?
We kill each other in the Civil War. Family against family, to
maintain the Union, yet we only really entered WWII to save some
distant cousins we don't even know?
You must be feeling terribly guilty for being so unfair to us to
dream up such nonsense.
>The
>first time American country was directly involved in a warzone was 11sept,
>as far as I can remember,
Except for the little problem at Pear Harbor huh?
>Someone wants allways to be a leader of a lands people, some of them can
be
>really good for the people and some can be really bad. Bush is in my eyes
>showing up with mostly a bad moral for the people but is trying his best
to
>show up with a a glorie with all his behavings for his friends in the big
>industries.
You're wrong. He is far from perfect, but this charge will not stand
the slightest scrutiny.
Again, we have to defend *Bush* in the context of this attack in
London? The most charitable in the history of the world, the
one that liberated the most people, still we must defend ourselves
to YOU when the ghouls attack?
I am not going to trot out the history of Norway's shortcomings, in
repsonse.
>So, in a few words and again generally, I was just trying to say that we're
>all from the same human race here on this planet, with the same kind of
>stories with problems for both rich and poor all over the world and have
>done and is doing the same faults generations after generations, in the
>trying to find material richdom in something;-)
>
>As far as I have seen, my behavings for the day have allways show up in
the
>way for tomorrow.
Actually, sometimes you give massive blood, kindness and treasure
and get highly educated, spiritually bankrupt ingratitude in return.
Consider this: What if the Israelis and the Palestinians really WERE
morally equivilent? Given Israel's military might, what would they
have done to the Palestinians by now? What would the Palestinians
do if they had Israel's military might? What would the
islamofascists do to Norway if it refused to insitute sharia law, and
the islamofascists held nuclear weapons?
If the United States was really about Oil and Greed and Imperialism
how would we really act, given what we could do?
If we dropped a nuke on Mecca in response to the next bombing,
and another one on Syria if there was another one, would they
stop?
But of course, we won't do that. We're much too decent for it.
So we sacrifice innocent lives, and actually waste our time and
concern trying to dialog with those who hate us, and we still
respond to people like you (who raise WWII of all things) when some
secretaries and musicans get blown to purple mush by some islamofascist asshole
on their way to work.
You amaze me in how little of yourself you can apparently see.
Come to America and learn the truth.
DCOn 11 Jul 2005 09:01:42 +1000, "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>
>Hey all,
>
>Been doing some different projects recently.
>
>Here's a pickguard I designed.
>
>I love Mondrian (obviously...)
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55567 is a reply to message #55521] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 17:02 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>DC
Very cool. Also has a very Frank Lloyd Wright flavor to it, a' la the
Coonley Playhouse windows, but without the circles.
pabput.........the grouse........down
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hfh5d1hr69po6vti955r3hoip653tg2p7k@4ax.com...
> lets see that would make me transparent, obvious, etc...yup that's me
> alright.
>
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:32:10 -0400, "justcron"
> <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>
> >Rick are you www (writing while wasted) again...? :)
> >
> >"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:pua4d1t2utr7aq961gh75cvf7f3lee6ulm@4ax.com...
> >> "when I was rollin' my own"...drunks??? ;o)
> >>
> >> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:58:42 -0600, "Mr Simplicity"
> >> <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>>that commie infiltrated leftie
> >>>lying scab sucking pbs...nova program.
> >>>
> >>>Damn right.........and by God, we're gonna have to keep a close eye on
> >>>those prarie home companions. (First time I ever heard the term *prarie
> >>>home
> >>>companion* the thought of a lonely housewives in a sod dwelling doing
> >>>unspeakable things with a grouse came to mind...........but that's was
> >>>back
> >>>in the days when I was rollin' my own)
> >>>
> >>>;oP
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:8mq2d15681h8s7e6cq3284corc7912thdn@4ax.com...
> >>>> it's design was responsible for it's structural failure. as the
> >>>> joists started to sag from the heat the bolts holding the members to
> >>>> the outside wall together failed. also the center stairwell
structure
> >>>> was not designed to withstand the forces applied. there was a whole
> >>>> thing on this about 2 years ago on...that commie infiltrated leftie
> >>>> lying scab sucking pbs...nova program.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10 Jul 2005 07:21:38 +1000, "Wes" <wexus6@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Do you have a source for this theory?
> >>>> >Do you also have an explaination for why world trade center 7
> >>>> >fell on 9/11.
> >>>> >-Wes
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55568 is a reply to message #55565] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 16:15 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
/>
> >>>> >>In the 48 hours that bush gave Saddam before the invasion, there
were
> >>>satellite
> >>>> >>photos showing Russian special forces trucks and transport aircraft
> >>>moving
> >>>> >>the stuff to Syria from the top suspected WMD site at that time.
> >>>> >>Prior
> >>>> >to
> >>>> >>this time, trucks were moving stuff to this site from all over
Iraq.
> >>>This
> >>>> >>was on the national news, they showed the photos, but of corse the
> >>>> >>story
> >>>> >>was squashed, never to be heard again. The WMD is probably sitting
> >>>> >>back
> >>>> >>in Russia now, or in Syria. Maybe somebody can find some info on
this
> >>>on
> >>>> >>the web.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>It was clearly stated by president Bush, that he wanted to topple
> >>>> >>Saddam
> >>>> >>and his regime before Iraq was invaded. WMD was not the only
reason
> >>>> >>we
> >>>> >went
> >>>> >>in. We should have immediately gone in in 1997 when Saddam kicked
the
> >>>UN
> >>>> >>weapons inspectors out, but somebody was too busy copping a hummer
in
> >>>the
> >>>> >>white house and giving our pulse weapons technology to the Chinese.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>Use your common sense, if they can hide tons and tons of
explosives,
> >>>isn't
> >>>> >>it possible that they could still be hiding some WMD? WE did find
> >>>> >>some
> >>>> >WMD,
> >>>> >>although not a significant amount. it was about a hundred or so
> >>>> >>shells
> >>>> >and
> >>>> >>rockets, enough to kill thousands. They could not and would not
> >>>> >>account
> >>>> >>for tons of WMD. Anyway I think they were moved out of Iraq, they
had
> >>>plenty
> >>>> >>of time and they had help by other countries.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >>>> >>>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on
earth
> >>>> >>>> >who
> >>>> >>saw
> >>>> >>>> any
> >>>> >>>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way
> >>>> >>>> they
> >>>> >>went
> >>>> >>>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
> >>>clearly
> >>>> >>>garbage).
> >>>> >>>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co
wanted
> >>>Saddam
> >>>> >>>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because
they
> >>>noticed
> >>>> >>>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would
> >>>> >>>> give
> >>>> >>them
> >>>> >>>> more oil power.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
> >>>politically,
> >>>> >>>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own
agenda,
> >>>and
> >>>> >>not
> >>>> >>>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public.
It
> >>>was
> >>>> >>>obviouly
> >>>> >>>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq
from
> >>>tyranny"
> >>>> >>>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem
to
> >>>care
> >>>> >>if
> >>>> >>>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to
tell
> >>>them
> >>>> >>>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I
> >>>*almost*
> >>>> >>>would
> >>>> >>>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached
> >>>> >>>> that
> >>>> >>as
> >>>> >>>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the
U.S.
> >>>had
> >>>> >>>waited
> >>>> >>>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
> >>>eventually
> >>>> >>>> the U.N. would
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55570 is a reply to message #55559] |
Mon, 11 July 2005 20:51 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of
time
> >>>before
> >>>> >>>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
> >>>procrastinate
> >>>> >>>for
> >>>> >>>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole
swag
> >>>> >>>> of
> >>>> >>>countries
> >>>> >>>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more".
Sure
> >>>it
> >>>> >>was
> >>>> >>>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth
it.
> >>>The
> >>>> >>>way
> >>>> >>>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell
bent
> >>>on
> >>>> >>war
> >>>> >>>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer
would
> >>>have
> >>>> >>>made
> >>>> >>>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
> >>>actually
> >>>> >>>ended
> >>>> >>>> up behind it or not.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> This London thing is screwed.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH
DOH!!
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> >>>> Kim.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>Paul Braun <cygnus_nospam@ctgonline.org> wrote:
>Very cool. Also has a very Frank Lloyd Wright flavor to it, a' la the
>Coonley Playhouse windows, but without the circles.
>
>pab
I love Wright. We went to Fallingwater a few years back.
http://www.paconserve.org/fw-twilight-04.htm
Stood in the living room. I kind of walked around while the guide
was giving her speech. Then she said: "ok, any questions?"
I popped up with:
WE'LL TAKE IT. ARE THE LOAN PAPERS READY? WHAT'S THE
RATE??
She wouldn't even listen to my offer!!
heh
DC
Holy cow, what a gorgeous house.I use a Mytek AD 24/96 with Paris. It has a bit more top end air, but when
the Paris converters are slaved to the Mytek clock, I put the Paris
converters a bit ahead sonically. I think that given the choice of an 8
channel tracking scenario using Mytek vs Paris, I'd probably pick the Paris
converters for most things. I pretty much just use the Mytek for Vox tracks
andacoustic guitar with SDC's if I'm going with a tube preamp or tube mic as
the characteristics of the Mytek complement the sound of tube pre's/mics
pretty well. The Paris converters, when slaved to the 9ps Mytec clock sound
just awesome......very sonically balanced and phat.
Deej
"Paul O'Connor" <pmproductions007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d2b448@linux...
> I did a search but couldn't find a topic on this.
>
> I was wondering if anyone is using Paris with any other AD converters such
> as Apogee or Brand X?
> Is it possible and if so could someone be so kind as to share their
> experiences and setups.
>
> Thank You!
>
> Paul O'Connor
> P. M. Productions
> Breckenridge, TX
>
>>Just drug a .wav file into the track.
That's what happens when you drug .wav files. They line up about like 0.20
candidate at a sobriety checkpoint.
;o)
"Mike Claytor" <claytor@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:42d2aea7$1@linux...
>
> No, no lock tool. Just drug a .wav file into the track.
>
>
> John <no@no.com> wrote:
> >Did you use the Lock tool to during the copy?
> >
> >Mike Claytor wrote:
> >> OK, I'm playing around with a mono rythmn track and I decide to copy it
> to
> >> another track....
> >>
> >> So now I have 2 copies of the SAME track, right? Both panned to center.
> >>
> >> I flip phase on one. EQ changes (comb filtering?) it sounds like the
tracks
> >> pull more to the center of the image (which they should be anyway)but
> I would
> >> think the two would cancel each other out if I flip phase on one.
> >>
> >> What's up here? Possibly both tracks aren't starting exactly on zero of
> the
> >> timeline and are offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same exact
level?
> >>
> >> Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? ;0)
> >>
> >> Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!
> >>
> >> Mike, The UnPhaseable
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
> >>
>Hello again Don,
I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have written
at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an patriotic
American and have gone directly and deeply into your shooting grave, firing
up at once at all those bastards that's saying "ugly" things about
America;-)
I know your American feelings really well here and I too are proud of all
the good things America have done up against the years. But what about the
ugly international things that there have been more and more of since the
second worldwar ended, things that different American presidents allways
tried to hold top secret and let organizations like CIA do the ugly jobs?
Countries like Chile as a little excample. Can't most of American like you
see it at all, that the sum of things like these up against the years now
are popping up and are the first things to blame when terrorists now are
attacking civilians in different places around the western world?
So, summa sumarum, and with fewer words: With good and ugly things done up
against the years, Americans are for me just showing up as a real "normal"
human race as all others in the world. But as an American like you, it seems
to be really difficult to understand when you just want to be remembered as
the good guys that allways have done just the god things, with or without a
gun in the hands.
By the way, it seems that you have problems with your American story or is
it just that you have allways thinked of Hawaii as American? Hawaii wasn't
American at all in the fourties, as far as I can remember. Wasn't it first
in '59 it became American?
So, let me again say it in much fewer words, so I hope it can be more
understandable what I have tried to say all the way: We're all sitting in
the same boat in the world and that boat isn't an American boat at all. It's
a boat with all kind of different people from the whole world, trying to
survive in different ways, not only the American way.
I would really see it as an honor to come to America, if it wasn't for my
echonomical situation(but I don't need any form for Marshall help in my well
living here;-)), but learning the truth, I don't really think I could the
American way:-) But I have been plenty of times in different American towns
in the early sixties and loved it. By the way, I was travelling much around
the whole world in those days, seeing much and thinking a lot over things,
like sitting in a bar in Corpus Christi, Texas in early sixtyone and
drinking American Cola in my poor youth(I drink it today too, but not as
much, too much sugar that's not healthy for anyone.:-)). I couldn't see any
negro at all in the bar and found out that my 5 years older brothers words
where true. My clean white brother have been plenty of times in America and
was being so brown under the sun that he allways was stopped when trying to
visiting bars in the south states. There he was just a negro.
So, I'm not ashamed at all over saying things like what I'm saying here.
Maybe I'm too old to be ashamed or isn't been brainwashed enough for any
other living system than the Scaninavian.
By the way, I saw a world statistic some months ago about the best countries
to live in in the world. As far as I remember I couldn't see USA on that
list all. Or maybe I was just blinded when I saw three Scandinavian
countries as heroes on top of that list? Yes, it was really good to be
Norwegian after looking on that list too:-)
Take care
erlilo
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d2fd80$1@linux...
>
> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>He, he Don, I knew most of your answers on forehand and I generally
>>over-simpificated my writings after my own thoughts since there have been
>
>>som many coming here on this side for some years, talking like America was
>
>>in war from the beginning in both worldwars we had the last century.
>
>
> I just don't understand what is important about who was in that war
> first. After all, it was a european war at first wasn't it?
>
> It seems as if we are either criticized for selling the arms to defend
> europe (greed) or criticized for not joining in early enough (moral
> cowardice)
>
> Now invert things, and ask yourself, if america did not sell the arms
> to free europe and russia could we not be criticized for moral
> cowardice as well? If we jumped right in as soon as Hitler
> commited his first act of war, couldn't we then be accused of being
> bloodthirsty imperialists looking to rule europe?
>
> In reality, this is all about socialists trying to bury america, and you
>
> are using these terrorists to do it.
>
> I hate to say it, but it is true. EVERY single time some horrible
> act is committed against the west, off we go again with the litany
> of america's so-called sins. Not just on this list, but in so many others
> and in the media.
>
> Erling. It's bull. All of it. Bull.
>
> If you want to discuss our many mistakes, you may do so, but not in
> the context of the dead bodies still being pulled out of the
> stench of the tube tunnels. Have some decency and wait a bit
> would you?
>
> Unless of course, you believe that we are to blame for every act
> of every crazy evil bastard with a bomb. Unless of course, you
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55574 is a reply to message #55568] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 04:16 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mecca in response to the next bombing,
> and another one on Syria if there was another one, would they
> stop?
>
> But of course, we won't do that. We're much too decent for it.
>
> So we sacrifice innocent lives, and actually waste our time and
> concern trying to dialog with those who hate us, and we still
> respond to people like you (who raise WWII of all things) when some
> secretaries and musicans get blown to purple mush by some islamofascist
> asshole
> on their way to work.
>
> You amaze me in how little of yourself you can apparently see.
>
> Come to America and learn the truth.
>
> DC
>I do this with vocals a lot in freeform. I'll copy one object to
another track with the lock tool ON. THen I know they line up. Then
I'll put verb on both and delay on one. Even better would be to double
the vocal but this works quickly for filling out a vocal.
With the lock tool on you know they are lined up.
John
Mr Simplicity wrote:
>>Just drug a .wav file into the track.
>
>
> That's what happens when you drug .wav files. They line up about like 0.20
> candidate at a sobriety checkpoint.
>
> ;o)
>
> "Mike Claytor" <claytor@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:42d2aea7$1@linux...
>
>>No, no lock tool. Just drug a .wav file into the track.
>>
>>
>>John <no@no.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Did you use the Lock tool to during the copy?
>>>
>>>Mike Claytor wrote:
>>>
>>>>OK, I'm playing around with a mono rythmn track and I decide to copy it
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>another track....
>>>>
>>>>So now I have 2 copies of the SAME track, right? Both panned to center.
>>>>
>>>>I flip phase on one. EQ changes (comb filtering?) it sounds like the
>
> tracks
>
>>>>pull more to the center of the image (which they should be anyway)but
>>
>>I would
>>
>>>>think the two would cancel each other out if I flip phase on one.
>>>>
>>>>What's up here? Possibly both tracks aren't starting exactly on zero of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>timeline and are offset by a hair? Channels not quite the same exact
>
> level?
>
>>>>Am I just being a phase ingnoramous? ;0)
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, gotta get back to my magazine!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>Mike, The UnPhaseable
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>>>
>
>Hello,
subject says it. I'm afraid to test it as I think there was possibly damage
to the EDS card or the
C16 when using the wrong cable type.
How would I know which cable is which, is UTP = TwistedPair? How do I
recognize a "normal"
RJ 45 network cable?
Thanks a lot,
Martin"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>
>Paul Braun <cygnus_nospam@ctgonline.org> wrote:
>
>>Very cool. Also has a very Frank Lloyd Wright flavor to it, a' la the
>>Coonley Playhouse windows, but without the circles.
>>
>>pab
>
>
>I love Wright. We went to Fallingwater a few years back.
>
>http://www.paconserve.org/fw-twilight-04.htm
That place IS cool... I've been there once - was blown away.
Neil"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>put.........the grouse........down...
....Damien.
:)...never mind...started thinking, found out by myself...
Martin
----- Original Message -----
---deleted for good reason...:-)So, your using the word clock that resides in the Mytek 8channel A/D unit???
or a freestanding mytek word clock?
Rod
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>I use a Mytek AD 24/96 with Paris. It has a bit more top end air, but when
>the Paris converters are slaved to the Mytek clock, I put the Paris
>converters a bit ahead sonically. I think that given the choice of an 8
>channel tracking scenario using Mytek vs Paris, I'd probably pick the Paris
>converters for most things. I pretty much just use the Mytek for Vox tracks
>andacoustic guitar with SDC's if I'm going with a tube preamp or tube mic
as
>the characteristics of the Mytek complement the sound of tube pre's/mics
>pretty well. The Paris converters, when slaved to the 9ps Mytec clock sound
>just awesome......very sonically balanced and phat.
>
>Deej
>
>"Paul O'Connor" <pmproductions007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:42d2b448@linux...
>> I did a search but couldn't find a topic on this.
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone is using Paris with any other AD converters
such
>> as Apogee or Brand X?
>> Is it possible and if so could someone be so kind as to share their
>> experiences and setups.
>>
>> Thank You!
>>
>> Paul O'Connor
>> P. M. Productions
>> Breckenridge, TX
>>
>>
>
>Mine is a Stereo96 ADC.
http://www.mytekdigital.com/stereo96.htm
I'm taking theWC output from the unit and feeding
it into a Lucid GenX6 which is set to distribute an external clock signal
rather than generate it's own signal and I'm distributing the Mytec clock
to x MECs, 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and a Lexicon reverb unit.
I was using the Lucid clock before I got the Mytek. The Mytek Stereo 96 and
a Lucid CKL6 distro module would cost less than an Apogee big Ben. The Mytek
clock is rated at 9 picoseconds which is about the best I've run across,
plus you get a couple of excellent A/D converters to boot.
;o)
"Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:42d3c656$1@linux...
>
> So, your using the word clock that resides in the Mytek 8channel A/D
unit???
> or a freestanding mytek word clock?
> Rod
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >I use a Mytek AD 24/96 with Paris. It has a bit more top end air, but
when
> >the Paris converters are slaved to the Mytek clock, I put the Paris
> >converters a bit ahead sonically. I think that given the choice of an 8
> >channel tracking scenario using Mytek vs Paris, I'd probably pick the
Paris
> >converters for most things. I pretty much just use the Mytek for Vox
tracks
> >andacoustic guitar with SDC's if I'm going with a tube preamp or tube mic
> as
> >the characteristics of the Mytek complement the sound of tube pre's/mics
> >pretty well. The Paris converters, when slaved to the 9ps Mytec clock
sound
> >just awesome......very sonically balanced and phat.
> >
> >Deej
> >
> >"Paul O'Connor" <pmproductions007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:42d2b448@linux...
> >> I did a search but couldn't find a topic on this.
> >>
> >> I was wondering if anyone is using Paris with any other AD converters
> such
> >> as Apogee or Brand X?
> >> Is it possible and if so could someone be so kind as to share their
> >> experiences and setups.
> >>
> >> Thank You!
> >>
> >> Paul O'Connor
> >> P. M. Productions
> >> Breckenridge, TX
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d1a8d6$1@linux...
>
> Hey all,
>
> Been doing some different projects recently.
>
> Here's a pickguard I designed.
>
> I love Mondrian (obviously...)
>
> DC
Im thinking "Partridge Family"
dbI've been having problems clocking a few digital devices together via a Big
Ben. I was still having an occasional pop when transfering over ADAT. I've
been living with it for a few months. Well I finlay cracked the manual on
the Big Ben. I then noticed that the front panel was showing under
termination on everything I had connected (2 MEC, an RME digiface, an
Eclipse, a TC m2000). So I spent 30 bucks on some t-splitters and 75ohm 1%
terminators. The big ben is now reporting correct termination, and I have
no problems.
I had assumed that the devices themselves could terminate, but it's
definitely not the case.I am terminating my RME cards with BNC terminator caps on the outputs
because I am feeding the common clock source to each one individually rather
than daisy-chaining them with a terminator on
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55598 is a reply to message #55430] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 14:31 |
derek
Messages: 61
Registered: July 2005
|
Member |
|
|
" target="_blank">1@linux...
>> >>>
>> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on earth
who
>> >saw
>> >>> any
>> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
>> >>>
>> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way they
>> >went
>> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
>clearly
>> >>garbage).
>> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co wanted
>Saddam
>> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because they
>noticed
>> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would give
>> >them
>> >>> more oil power.
>> >>>
>> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
>politically,
>> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own agenda,
and
>> >not
>> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public. It
>was
>> >>obviouly
>> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq from
>tyranny"
>> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem to
care
>> >if
>> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to tell
>them
>> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I *almost*
>> >>would
>> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached that
>> >as
>> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the U.S.
had
>> >>waited
>> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
>eventually
>> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co actually
>> >>*didn't
>> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could be in
>> >>charge,
>> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the country was
>> >>restructured.
>> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of time
>before
>> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
>procrastinate
>> >>for
>> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole swag
of
>> >>countries
>> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more". Sure
it
>> >was
>> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth it.
>The
>> >>way
>> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell bent
on
>> >war
>> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer would
have
>> >>made
>> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
>actually
>> >>ended
>> >>> up behind it or not.
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
>> >>>
>> >>> This London thing is screwed.
>> >>>
>> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
>> >>>
>> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH DOH!!
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Kim.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>No, I'm not, but it made a lot of people think dinnit? Truly,
>if we did that, I think it would only take about three cities'
>worth before the Islams said "ENOUGH!"... give us a break!
israel has been trying this method for quite a while,
just on a smaller scale. did it reduce terror over there? you tell me.
OTOH, there was this *one* time when they tried the deescalation
method for a change. did it reduce terror? you bet it did.
too bad that some extremist religious fanatic asshole
shot the man that was brave enough to try this. theyve been
back to business as usual ever since (and its not working
like always)"Brian Porick" <brianporick@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d42e13$1@linux...
> After seeing your post, I downloaded this yesterday. Today, my closest
> co-worker was showing off how cool Google Maps is to me, and I said "You
> ain't seen nothing yet, pal." Next thing I know, he's giving himself a
> personal tour of Mount Everest, and then pretty much the rest of the
> department is downloading this thing. So, congratulations, sir. You have
> single-handledly destroyed all productivity in the Wheaton College Media
> Resources department this afternoon.
>
> I'm proud of you, man.
glad to hear it... you guys needed something to do today anyway.
Good work.It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would learn from the
mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d436c1$1@linux...
>
> doug,
>
>
> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
> youve come a long way, really.
>
>
> regards,
> derek
>
>
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
> >
> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but seriously.............
> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real proactive with
their
> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in Holland these days
> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny about how the
Euro's
> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then when the chips
are
> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective asses and watch
> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh shit!!!!
........those
> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and spoiled all our
> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam and pick up a
> few
> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who are dying of
> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to his violations
> of
> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting the flies off
their
> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with disentery.........and
just
> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room. Whaddaya say guys?
> >
> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
> >
> >
> >
> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
> >>
> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially your 3rd &
> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the most evil
> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I find it
> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be the
> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
> >>
> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was really
> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into Iraq...
> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the Iraqi's
> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda against
> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to being
> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only thing
> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit their
> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a good
> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an Islamic city.
> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another embassy? OK,
> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this time.
> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before we
> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good long
> >> time.
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
> >> >
> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US - big US oil
> >companies.
> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in bombed
pipelines
> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was about
destabilizing
> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make billions for
> >George's
> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
> >> >
> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt the US the
same
> >> way
> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as payback for
> >Israeli/US
> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending him or his
agenda
> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and our so-called
> >friends
> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
> >> >
> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt the US
government
> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money as possible to
> >their
> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and military
contracts,
> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little social
> >safety-net
> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people directly with
> high
> >> >gas and oil prices.
> >> >
> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US back to the early
> >1900s
> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative ideology) is
> to
> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public simply can't
> >afford
> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to bankrupt the US
> >government
> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and he's doing a
great
> >> >job.
> >> >
> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives don't seem to
> >consider.
> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of wealth through
> >taxation,
> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and nobodies wealth
> is
> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks the economy.
> Why?
> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend 100% of every
> >dollar
> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally spend every
> red
> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his rich friends,
> >the
> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people save and
government
> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting of America.
> >> >
> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the direction that the US
> is
> >> heading
> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same agenda. There's no
> >success
> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell you how
heartbroken
> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election. I've always
> >believed
> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these are very
worrisome
> >> >times.
> >> >
> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by this
senselessness
> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone else.
> >
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55601 is a reply to message #55598] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 16:19 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
onster who was a proven menace to
stability
> >> >in
> >> >>the region. Would it have happened if 9-11 hadn't happened? I don't
> >know,
> >> >>but I think eventually Sadaam would have succeeded in shooting down
> one
> >> >of
> >> >>our aircraft that was enforcing the no-fly zone and we would have
done
> >> >>something. Obviously the EU, Russia and the UN didn't give a damn
about
> >> >>anything but oil. It's blatantly obvious that keeping Sadaam in power
> >was
> >> >>all about oil. If this was about oil to us, I guarantee we would
have
> >> half
> >> >>a million men over there right now guarding the pipelines and
> >infrastructure
> >> >>from border to border and we'd be sucking that teat dry as a bone as
> we
> >> >>speak. As you have so astutely noticed, Americans aren't subtle.
> >> >>
> >> >>Regards,
> >> >>
> >> >>Deej
> >> >>
> >> >>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on earth
> who
> >> >saw
> >> >>> any
> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way
they
> >> >went
> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
> >clearly
> >> >>garbage).
> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co wanted
> >Saddam
> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because they
> >noticed
> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would
give
> >> >them
> >> >>> more oil power.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
> >politically,
> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own agenda,
> and
> >> >not
> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public. It
> >was
> >> >>obviouly
> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq from
> >tyranny"
> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem to
> care
> >> >if
> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to tell
> >them
> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I
*almost*
> >> >>would
> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached
that
> >> >as
> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the U.S.
> had
> >> >>waited
> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
> >eventually
> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
actually
> >> >>*didn't
> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could be in
> >> >>charge,
> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the country was
> >> >>restructured.
> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of time
> >before
> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
> >procrastinate
> >> >>for
> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole swag
> of
> >> >>countries
> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more". Sure
> it
> >> >was
> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth it.
> >The
> >> >>way
> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell bent
> on
> >> >war
> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer would
> have
> >> >>made
> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
> >actually
> >> >>ended
> >> >>> up behind it or not.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH DOH!!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >>> Kim.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>you know how i meant it.
whatever.
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would learn from
the
>mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
>
>
>"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d436c1$1@linux...
>>
>> doug,
>>
>>
>> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
>> youve come a long way, really.
>>
>>
>> regards,
>> derek
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> > http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
>> >
>> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but seriously.............
>> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real proactive with
>their
>> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in Holland these days
>> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny about how the
>Euro's
>> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then when the chips
>are
>> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective asses and watch
>> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh shit!!!!
>.......those
>> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and spoiled all our
>> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam and pick up
a
>> few
>> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who are dying of
>> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to his violations
>> of
>> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting the flies off
>their
>> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with disentery.........and
>just
>> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room. Whaddaya say guys?
>> >
>> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially your 3rd &
>> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the most evil
>> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I find it
>> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be the
>> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
>> >>
>> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was really
>> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into Iraq...
>> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the Iraqi's
>> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda against
>> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to being
>> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only thing
>> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
>> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit their
>> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a good
>> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
>> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an Islamic city.
>> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another embassy? OK,
>> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this time.
>> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before we
>> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good long
>> >> time.
>> >>
>> >> Neil
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Neil
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
>> >> >
>> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US - big US oil
>> >companies.
>> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in bombed
>pipelines
>> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was about
>destabilizing
>> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make billions for
>> >George's
>> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
>> >> >
>> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt the US the
>same
>> >> way
>> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as payback for
>> >Israeli/US
>> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending him or his
>agenda
>> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and our so-called
>> >friends
>> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
>> >> >
>> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt the US
>government
>> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money as possible
to
>> >their
>> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and military
>contracts,
>> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little social
>> >safety-net
>> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people directly with
>> high
>> >> >gas and oil prices.
>> >> >
>> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US back to the early
>> >1900s
>> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative ideology)
is
>> to
>> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public simply can't
>> >afford
>> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to bankrupt the
US
>> >government
>> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and he's doing
a
>great
>> >> >job.
>> >> >
>> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives don't seem
to
>> >consider.
>> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of wealth through
>> >taxation,
>> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and nobodies wealth
>> is
>> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks the economy.
>> Why?
>> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend 100% of every
>> >dollar
>> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally spend every
>> red
>> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his rich friends,
>> >the
>> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people save and
>government
>> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting of America.
>> >> >
>> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the direction that the
US
>> is
>> >> heading
>> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same agenda. There's
no
>> >success
>> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell you how
>heartbroken
>> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election. I've always
>> >believed
>> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these are very
>worrisome
>> >> >times.
>> >> >
>> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by this
>senselessness
>> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone else.
>> >> >
>> >> >All the best,
>> >> >Mike Audet
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >> >>Kim,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I hear your arguments and I respect your opinion. I do not, however,
>> >agree
>> >> >>with your opinion. Waiting any longher would have done no good at
all
>> >(my
>> >> >>opinion of course) and despite the glee that those opposed to the
war
>> >feel
>> >> >>due to there having been
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55602 is a reply to message #55601] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 16:33 |
derek
Messages: 61
Registered: July 2005
|
Member |
|
|
no WMD's found, the delay could have easily
>> >> >>provided the time for disposing of them across the border in Syria
or
>> in
>> >> >the
>> >> >>desolation of the Iraqi hinterland. I don't think this story is over
>> >yet.
>> >> >I
>> >> >>do think that those who dislike Bush desperately want it to be over
>> so
>> >> they
>> >> >>can point fingers and trumpet their riteousness, all the while
>bellowing
>> >> >>that the war was about WMD's and there weren't any found, therefore,
>> the
>> >> >war
>> >> >>was unjustified. This is political spin at it's absolute lowest
>partisan
>> >> >>level. This war was about justifiably enforcing UN resolutions and
in
>> >doing
>> >> >>so, removing a bloodthirsty monster who was a proven menace to
>stability
>> >> >in
>> >> >>the region. Would it have happened if 9-11 hadn't happened? I don't
>> >know,
>> >> >>but I think eventually Sadaam would have succeeded in shooting down
>> one
>> >> >of
>> >> >>our aircraft that was enforcing the no-fly zone and we would have
>done
>> >> >>something. Obviously the EU, Russia and the UN didn't give a damn
>about
>> >> >>anything but oil. It's blatantly obvious that keeping Sadaam in power
>> >was
>> >> >>all about oil. If this was about oil to us, I guarantee we would
>have
>> >> half
>> >> >>a million men over there right now guarding the pipelines and
>> >infrastructure
>> >> >>from border to border and we'd be sucking that teat dry as a bone
as
>> we
>> >> >>speak. As you have so astutely noticed, Americans aren't subtle.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Regards,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Deej
>> >> >>
>> >> >>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on earth
>> who
>> >> >saw
>> >> >>> any
>> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way
>they
>> >> >went
>> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
>> >clearly
>> >> >>garbage).
>> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co wanted
>> >Saddam
>> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because they
>> >noticed
>> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would
>give
>> >> >them
>> >> >>> more oil power.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
>> >politically,
>> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own agenda,
>> and
>> >> >not
>> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public.
It
>> >was
>> >> >>obviouly
>> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq from
>> >tyranny"
>> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem
to
>> care
>> >> >if
>> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to
tell
>> >them
>> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I
>*almost*
>> >> >>would
>> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached
>that
>> >> >as
>> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the U.S.
>> had
>> >> >>waited
>> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
>> >eventually
>> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
>actually
>> >> >>*didn't
>> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could be
in
>> >> >>charge,
>> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the country
was
>> >> >>restructured.
>> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of time
>> >before
>> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
>> >procrastinate
>> >> >>for
>> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole swag
>> of
>> >> >>countries
>> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more".
Sure
>> it
>> >> >was
>> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth
it.
>> >The
>> >> >>way
>> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell
bent
>> on
>> >> >war
>> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer would
>> have
>> >> >>made
>> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
>> >actually
>> >> >>ended
>> >> >>> up behind it or not.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH DOH!!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Cheers,
>> >> >>> Kim.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>Yes I do. Unfortunately, we apparently understand each other.
Regards,
DJ
"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d45332$1@linux...
>
> you know how i meant it.
>
> whatever.
>
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would learn from
> the
> >mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
> >
> >
> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d436c1$1@linux...
> >>
> >> doug,
> >>
> >>
> >> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
> >> youve come a long way, really.
> >>
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> derek
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> > http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
> >> >
> >> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but
seriously.............
> >> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real proactive with
> >their
> >> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in Holland these
days
> >> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny about how the
> >Euro's
> >> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then when the chips
> >are
> >> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective asses and
watch
> >> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh shit!!!!
> >.......those
> >> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and spoiled all
our
> >> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam and pick up
> a
> >> few
> >> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who are dying of
> >> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to his
violations
> >> of
> >> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting the flies off
> >their
> >> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with disentery.........and
> >just
> >> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room. Whaddaya say
guys?
> >> >
> >> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially your 3rd &
> >> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the most evil
> >> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I find it
> >> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be the
> >> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was really
> >> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into Iraq...
> >> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the Iraqi's
> >> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda against
> >> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to being
> >> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only thing
> >> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
> >> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit their
> >> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a good
> >> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
> >> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an Islamic city.
> >> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another embassy? OK,
> >> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this time.
> >> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before we
> >> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good long
> >> >> time.
> >> >>
> >> >> Neil
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Neil
> >> >>
> >> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US - big US oil
> >> >companies.
> >> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in bombed
> >pipelines
> >> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was about
> >destabilizing
> >> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make billions for
> >> >George's
> >> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt the US the
> >same
> >> >> way
> >> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as payback for
> >> >Israeli/US
> >> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending him or his
> >agenda
> >> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and our
so-called
> >> >friends
> >> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt the US
> >government
> >> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money as possible
> to
> >> >their
> >> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and military
> >contracts,
> >> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little social
> >> >safety-net
> >> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people directly
with
> >> high
> >> >> >gas and oil prices.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US back to the
early
> >> >1900s
> >> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative ideology)
> is
> >> to
> >> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public simply
can't
> >> >afford
> >> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to bankrupt the
> US
> >> >government
> >> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and he's doing
> a
> >great
> >> >> >job.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives don't seem
> to
> >> >consider.
> >> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of wealth through
> >> >taxation,
> >> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and nobodies
wealth
> >> is
> >> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks the economy.
> >> Why?
> >> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend 100% of
every
> >> >dollar
> >> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally spend
every
> >> red
> >> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his rich
friends,
> >> >the
> >> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people save and
> >government
> >> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting of America.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the direction that the
> US
> >> is
> >> >> heading
> >> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same agenda. There's
> no
> >> >success
> >> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell you how
> >heartbroken
> >> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election. I've always
> >>
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55603 is a reply to message #55602] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 16:32 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>believed
> >> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these are very
> >worrisome
> >> >> >times.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by this
> >senselessness
> >> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone else.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >All the best,
> >> >> >Mike Audet
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>Kim,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I hear your arguments and I respect your opinion. I do not,
however,
> >> >agree
> >> >> >>with your opinion. Waiting any longher would have done no good at
> all
> >> >(my
> >> >> >>opinion of course) and despite the glee that those opposed to the
> war
> >> >feel
> >> >> >>due to there having been no WMD's found, the delay could have
easily
> >> >> >>provided the time for disposing of them across the border in Syria
> or
> >> in
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >>desolation of the Iraqi hinterland. I don't think this story is
over
> >> >yet.
> >> >> >I
> >> >> >>do think that those who dislike Bush desperately want it to be
over
> >> so
> >> >> they
> >> >> >>can point fingers and trumpet their riteousness, all the while
> >bellowing
> >> >> >>that the war was about WMD's and there weren't any found,
therefore,
> >> the
> >> >> >war
> >> >> >>was unjustified. This is political spin at it's absolute lowest
> >partisan
> >> >> >>level. This war was about justifiably enforcing UN resolutions and
> in
> >> >doing
> >> >> >>so, removing a bloodthirsty monster who was a proven menace to
> >stability
> >> >> >in
> >> >> >>the region. Would it have happened if 9-11 hadn't happened? I
don't
> >> >know,
> >> >> >>but I think eventually Sadaam would have succeeded in shooting
down
> >> one
> >> >> >of
> >> >> >>our aircraft that was enforcing the no-fly zone and we would have
> >done
> >> >> >>something. Obviously the EU, Russia and the UN didn't give a damn
> >about
> >> >> >>anything but oil. It's blatantly obvious that keeping Sadaam in
power
> >> >was
> >> >> >>all about oil. If this was about oil to us, I guarantee we would
> >have
> >> >> half
> >> >> >>a million men over there right now guarding the pipelines and
> >> >infrastructure
> >> >> >>from border to border and we'd be sucking that teat dry as a bone
> as
> >> we
> >> >> >>speak. As you have so astutely noticed, Americans aren't subtle.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Regards,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Deej
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on
earth
> >> who
> >> >> >saw
> >> >> >>> any
> >> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the way
> >they
> >> >> >went
> >> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which was
> >> >clearly
> >> >> >>garbage).
> >> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co
wanted
> >> >Saddam
> >> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because
they
> >> >noticed
> >> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would
> >give
> >> >> >them
> >> >> >>> more oil power.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
> >> >politically,
> >> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own
agenda,
> >> and
> >> >> >not
> >> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public.
> It
> >> >was
> >> >> >>obviouly
> >> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq
from
> >> >tyranny"
> >> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem
> to
> >> care
> >> >> >if
> >> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have to
> tell
> >> >them
> >> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that I
> >*almost*
> >> >> >>would
> >> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached
> >that
> >> >> >as
> >> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the
U.S.
> >> had
> >> >> >>waited
> >> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
> >> >eventually
> >> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
> >actually
> >> >> >>*didn't
> >> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could be
> in
> >> >> >>charge,
> >> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the country
> was
> >> >> >>restructured.
> >> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of
time
> >> >before
> >> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
> >> >procrastinate
> >> >> >>for
> >> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole
swag
> >> of
> >> >> >>countries
> >> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more".
> Sure
> >> it
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth
> it.
> >> >The
> >> >> >>way
> >> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell
> bent
> >> on
> >> >> >war
> >> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer
would
> >> have
> >> >> >>made
> >> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
> >> >actually
> >> >> >>ended
> >> >> >>> up behind it or not.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH
DOH!!
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >> >>> Kim.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you.
reading the stereotype BS you spread, im frankly shocked,
thats pretty much all there is to it. i definetly dont recognize you.
maybe its because im a european hypocrite sitting on my ass or something.
cause thats the way we are, we "euros", right?
*shakes head in disbelief*
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>Yes I do. Unfortunately, we apparently understand each other.
>
>Regards,
>
>DJ
>
>"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d45332$1@linux...
>>
>> you know how i meant it.
>>
>> whatever.
>>
>>
>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would learn from
>> the
>> >mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
>> >
>> >
>> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d436c1$1@linux...
>> >>
>> >> doug,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
>> >> youve come a long way, really.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> regards,
>> >> derek
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >> > http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
>> >> >
>> >> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but
>seriously.............
>> >> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real proactive
with
>> >their
>> >> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in Holland these
>days
>> >> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny about how
the
>> >Euro's
>> >> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then when the chips
>> >are
>> >> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective asses and
>watch
>> >> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh shit!!!!
>> >.......those
>> >> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and spoiled all
>our
>> >> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam and pick
up
>> a
>> >> few
>> >> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who are dying
of
>> >> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to his
>violations
>> >> of
>> >> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting the flies
off
>> >their
>> >> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with disentery.........and
>> >just
>> >> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room. Whaddaya say
>guys?
>> >> >
>> >> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially your 3rd &
>> >> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the most evil
>> >> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I find it
>> >> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be the
>> >> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was really
>> >> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into Iraq...
>> >> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the Iraqi's
>> >> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda against
>> >> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to being
>> >> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only thing
>> >> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
>> >> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit their
>> >> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a good
>> >> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
>> >> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an Islamic city.
>> >> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another embassy? OK,
>> >> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this time.
>> >> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before we
>> >> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good long
>> >> >> time.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Neil
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Neil
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US - big US
oil
>> >> >companies.
>> >> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in bombed
>> >pipelines
>> >> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was about
>> >destabilizing
>> >> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make billions
for
>> >> >George's
>> >> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt the US
the
>> >same
>> >> >> way
>> >> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as payback
for
>> >> >Israeli/US
>> >> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending him or his
>> >agenda
>> >> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and our
>so-called
>> >> >friends
>> >> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt the US
>> >government
>> >> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money as possible
>> to
>> >> >their
>> >> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and military
>> >contracts,
>> >> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little social
>> >> >safety-net
>> >> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people directly
>with
>> >> high
>> >> >> >gas and oil prices.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US back to the
>early
>> >> >1900s
>> >> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative ideology)
>> is
>> >> to
>> >> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public simply
>can't
>> >> >afford
>> >> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to bankrupt
the
>> US
>> >> >government
>> >> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and he's doing
>> a
>> >great
>> >> >> >job.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives don't seem
>> to
>> >> >consider.
>> >> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of wealth through
>> >> >taxation,
>> >> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and nobodies
>wealth
>> >&g
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55604 is a reply to message #55603] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 17:18 |
derek
Messages: 61
Registered: July 2005
|
Member |
|
|
t; is
>> >> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks the economy.
>> >> Why?
>> >> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend 100% of
>every
>> >> >dollar
>> >> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally spend
>every
>> >> red
>> >> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his rich
>friends,
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people save and
>> >government
>> >> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting of America.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the direction that the
>> US
>> >> is
>> >> >> heading
>> >> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same agenda. There's
>> no
>> >> >success
>> >> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell you how
>> >heartbroken
>> >> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election. I've always
>> >> >believed
>> >> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these are very
>> >worrisome
>> >> >> >times.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by this
>> >senselessness
>> >> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone else.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >All the best,
>> >> >> >Mike Audet
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>Kim,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>I hear your arguments and I respect your opinion. I do not,
>however,
>> >> >agree
>> >> >> >>with your opinion. Waiting any longher would have done no good
at
>> all
>> >> >(my
>> >> >> >>opinion of course) and despite the glee that those opposed to
the
>> war
>> >> >feel
>> >> >> >>due to there having been no WMD's found, the delay could have
>easily
>> >> >> >>provided the time for disposing of them across the border in Syria
>> or
>> >> in
>> >> >> >the
>> >> >> >>desolation of the Iraqi hinterland. I don't think this story is
>over
>> >> >yet.
>> >> >> >I
>> >> >> >>do think that those who dislike Bush desperately want it to be
>over
>> >> so
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> >>can point fingers and trumpet their riteousness, all the while
>> >bellowing
>> >> >> >>that the war was about WMD's and there weren't any found,
>therefore,
>> >> the
>> >> >> >war
>> >> >> >>was unjustified. This is political spin at it's absolute lowest
>> >partisan
>> >> >> >>level. This war was about justifiably enforcing UN resolutions
and
>> in
>> >> >doing
>> >> >> >>so, removing a bloodthirsty monster who was a proven menace to
>> >stability
>> >> >> >in
>> >> >> >>the region. Would it have happened if 9-11 hadn't happened? I
>don't
>> >> >know,
>> >> >> >>but I think eventually Sadaam would have succeeded in shooting
>down
>> >> one
>> >> >> >of
>> >> >> >>our aircraft that was enforcing the no-fly zone and we would have
>> >done
>> >> >> >>something. Obviously the EU, Russia and the UN didn't give a damn
>> >about
>> >> >> >>anything but oil. It's blatantly obvious that keeping Sadaam in
>power
>> >> >was
>> >> >> >>all about oil. If this was about oil to us, I guarantee we would
>> >have
>> >> >> half
>> >> >> >>a million men over there right now guarding the pipelines and
>> >> >infrastructure
>> >> >> >>from border to border and we'd be sucking that teat dry as a bone
>> as
>> >> we
>> >> >> >>speak. As you have so astutely noticed, Americans aren't subtle.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Regards,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Deej
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on
>earth
>> >> who
>> >> >> >saw
>> >> >> >>> any
>> >> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the
way
>> >they
>> >> >> >went
>> >> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which
was
>> >> >clearly
>> >> >> >>garbage).
>> >> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co
>wanted
>> >> >Saddam
>> >> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because
>they
>> >> >noticed
>> >> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq would
>> >give
>> >> >> >them
>> >> >> >>> more oil power.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
>> >> >politically,
>> >> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own
>agenda,
>> >> and
>> >> >> >not
>> >> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the public.
>> It
>> >> >was
>> >> >> >>obviouly
>> >> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq
>from
>> >> >tyranny"
>> >> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't seem
>> to
>> >> care
>> >> >> >if
>> >> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have
to
>> tell
>> >> >them
>> >> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that
I
>> >*almost*
>> >> >> >>would
>> >> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have stomached
>> >that
>> >> >> >as
>> >> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the
>U.S.
>> >> had
>> >> >> >>waited
>> >> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N. that
>> >> >eventually
>> >> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
>> >actually
>> >> >> >>*didn't
>> >> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could
be
>> in
>> >> >> >>charge,
>> >> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the country
>> was
>> >> >> >>restructured.
>> >> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of
>time
>> >> >before
>> >> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
>> >> >procrastinate
>> >> >> >>for
>> >> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole
>swag
>> >> of
>> >> >> >>countries
>> >> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little more".
>> Sure
>> >> it
>> >> >> >was
>> >> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been worth
>> it.
>> >> >The
>> >> >> >>way
>> >> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just hell
>> bent
>> >> on
>> >> >> >war
>> >> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer
>would
>> >> have
>> >> >> >>made
>> >> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the U.N.
>> >> >actually
>> >> >> >>ended
>> >> >> >>> up behind it or not.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH
>DOH!!
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Cheers,
>> >> >> >>> Kim.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>Please, please Don, I am not doing any defence of any terrorism or
terrorists at all, can't you really understand these facts? And I'm not
trying to score any cheap points at all on the London bombing or all the
sivilians that have lost their lifes because of stupid statemen affairs up
against the years. I have just tried to show you an opinion, from outside
America, how the roots to people like these can grow up and hate so much
that they are doing these kind of things.
By the way, saw they have arrested someone up in NorthEngland after the
bombs in London earlier today. Hope it's some of the right persons they have
arrested and will find them all.
Michael Moore? you mean that famous American filmmaker that don't like the
American President's behavings and is saying it high and clearly? Sorry to
say, I havn't heard him speaking or seeing any of his films. Have just read
about him, that he have won big American and international prizes for works
like "Fahrenheit 9/11". It must have reasons that he have won these high
prizes and I think it can't be for any lies he have told in these films.
So, yes I did it again Don, but not for the reasons you are throwing at me
here. You see, I don't need any Michael Moore or any President or American
lifestylist to think for me at all.
Nonsense, accusations, and lies? Have you documentations to stand besides
your speaking here or is it just believings? Sitting nearly three years in
different Scandinavian libraries, doing research for a book about second
worldwar and my father, gave me plenty of documentations about the last
couple of hundred years of wars to stand behind what I'm trying to say here
about war and terror.
Sorry to hear that you don't know at all what Norway stands for in humanity
and political thinking. If it wasn't for me, maybe you didn't had any
knowings about Norway at all? So, I think it's time for you to find out real
documentations and facts about that nation too before throwing out talk
about racism and intolerance that really can be used as a mirror to why the
world have all these kind of problems.
Take care
erlilo
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d402ed$1@linux...
>
> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>Hello again Don,
>>I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have
>>written
>
>>at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an
>>patriotic
>
>>American and have gone directly and deeply into your shooting grave,
>>firing
>
>>up at once at all those bastards that's saying "ugly" things about
>>America;-)
>
> Erling, that simply isn't the case. What I was unhappy about was
> you using dead bombing victims as another opportunity to trash a
> country to do not understand, and everything you know about
> seems to come from Michael Moore. I certainly understood you.
>
> So, you did it again!
>
> Even more nonsense, accusations, and lies. This is your solution
> to Islamic terrorism... Maybe when they blow up your friends and
> family we can all talk about Norweigan racism and intolerance...
>
> Swell.
>
> Bye Erling.
>
>
> DC
>Derek,
I'm going to sleep before I reply to this.
DJ
"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d45df1@linux...
>
> maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
> but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you.
> reading the stereotype BS you spread, im frankly shocked,
> thats pretty much all there is to it. i definetly dont recognize you.
>
> maybe its because im a european hypocrite sitting on my ass or something.
> cause thats the way we are, we "euros", right?
>
> *shakes head in disbelief*
>
>
>
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Yes I do. Unfortunately, we apparently understand each other.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >DJ
> >
> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d45332$1@linux...
> >>
> >> you know how i meant it.
> >>
> >> whatever.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would learn
from
> >> the
> >> >mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42d436c1$1@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> doug,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
> >> >> youve come a long way, really.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> regards,
> >> >> derek
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> > http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but
> >seriously.............
> >> >> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real proactive
> with
> >> >their
> >> >> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in Holland these
> >days
> >> >> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny about how
> the
> >> >Euro's
> >> >> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then when the
chips
> >> >are
> >> >> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective asses and
> >watch
> >> >> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh shit!!!!
> >> >.......those
> >> >> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and spoiled all
> >our
> >> >> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam and pick
> up
> >> a
> >> >> few
> >> >> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who are dying
> of
> >> >> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to his
> >violations
> >> >> of
> >> >> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting the flies
> off
> >> >their
> >> >> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with
disentery.........and
> >> >just
> >> >> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room. Whaddaya say
> >guys?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially your 3rd &
> >> >> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the most evil
> >> >> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I find it
> >> >> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be the
> >> >> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was really
> >> >> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into Iraq...
> >> >> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the Iraqi's
> >> >> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda against
> >> >> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to being
> >> >> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only thing
> >> >> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if th
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55605 is a reply to message #55585] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 17:20 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
ey don't
> >> >> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit their
> >> >> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a good
> >> >> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
> >> >> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an Islamic city.
> >> >> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another embassy? OK,
> >> >> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this time.
> >> >> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before we
> >> >> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good long
> >> >> >> time.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Neil
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Neil
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US - big US
> oil
> >> >> >companies.
> >> >> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in bombed
> >> >pipelines
> >> >> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was about
> >> >destabilizing
> >> >> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make billions
> for
> >> >> >George's
> >> >> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt the US
> the
> >> >same
> >> >> >> way
> >> >> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as payback
> for
> >> >> >Israeli/US
> >> >> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending him or
his
> >> >agenda
> >> >> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and our
> >so-called
> >> >> >friends
> >> >> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt the US
> >> >government
> >> >> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money as
possible
> >> to
> >> >> >their
> >> >> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and military
> >> >contracts,
> >> >> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little social
> >> >> >safety-net
> >> >> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people directly
> >with
> >> >> high
> >> >> >> >gas and oil prices.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US back to
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55606 is a reply to message #55604] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 17:39 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
the
> >early
> >> >> >1900s
> >> >> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative
ideology)
> >> is
> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public simply
> >can't
> >> >> >afford
> >> >> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to bankrupt
> the
> >> US
> >> >> >government
> >> >> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and he's
doing
> >> a
> >> >great
> >> >> >> >job.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives don't
seem
> >> to
> >> >> >consider.
> >> >> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of wealth
through
> >> >> >taxation,
> >> >> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and nobodies
> >wealth
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks the
economy.
> >> >> Why?
> >> >> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend 100% of
> >every
> >> >> >dollar
> >> >> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally spend
> >every
> >> >> red
> >> >> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his rich
> >friends,
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people save and
> >> >government
> >> >> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting of
America.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the direction that
the
> >> US
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> heading
> >> >> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same agenda.
There's
> >> no
> >> >> >success
> >> >> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell you how
> >> >heartbroken
> >> >> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election. I've
always
> >> >> >believed
> >> >> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these are very
> >> >worrisome
> >> >> >> >times.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by this
> >> >senselessness
> >> >> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone else.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >All the best,
> >> >> >> >Mike Audet
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>Kim,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>I hear your arguments and I respect your opinion. I do not,
> >however,
> >> >> >agree
> >> >> >> >>with your opinion. Waiting any longher would have done no good
> at
> >> all
> >> >> >(my
> >> >> >> >>opinion of course) and despite the glee that those opposed to
> the
> >> war
> >> >> >feel
> >> >> >> >>due to there having been no WMD's found, the delay could have
> >easily
> >> >> >> >>provided the time for disposing of them across the border in
Syria
> >> or
> >> >> in
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >>desolation of the Iraqi hinterland. I don't think this story is
> >over
> >> >> >yet.
> >> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> >>do think that those who dislike Bush desperately want it to be
> >over
> >> >> so
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> >>can point fingers and trumpet their riteousness, all the while
> >> >bellowing
> >> >> >> >>that the war was about WMD's and there weren't any found,
> >therefore,
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >war
> >> >> >> >>was unjustified. This is political spin at it's absolute lowest
> >> >partisan
> >> >> >> >>level. This war was about justifiably enforcing UN resolutions
> and
> >> in
> >> >> >doing
> >> >> >> >>so, removing a bloodthirsty monster who was a proven menace to
> >> >stability
> >> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >>the region. Would it have happened if 9-11 hadn't happened? I
> >don't
> >> >> >know,
> >> >> >> >>but I think eventually Sadaam would have succeeded in shooting
> >down
> >> >> one
> >> >> >> >of
> >> >> >> >>our aircraft that was enforcing the no-fly zone and we would
have
> >> >done
> >> >> >> >>something. Obviously the EU, Russia and the UN didn't give a
damn
> >> >about
> >> >> >> >>anything but oil. It's blatantly obvious that keeping Sadaam in
> >power
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >>all about oil. If this was about oil to us, I guarantee we
would
> >> >have
> >> >> >> half
> >> >> >> >>a million men over there right now guarding the pipelines and
> >> >> >infrastructure
> >> >> >> >>from border to border and we'd be sucking that teat dry as a
bone
> >> as
> >> >> we
> >> >> >> >>speak. As you have so astutely noticed, Americans aren't
subtle.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Regards,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Deej
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on
> >earth
> >> >> who
> >> >> >> >saw
> >> >> >> >>> any
> >> >> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the
> way
> >> >they
> >> >> >> >went
> >> >> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which
> was
> >> >> >clearly
> >> >> >> >>garbage).
> >> >> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co
> >wanted
> >> >> >Saddam
> >> >> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because
> >they
> >> >> >noticed
> >> >> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq
would
> >> >give
> >> >> >> >them
> >> >> >> >>> more oil power.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
> >> >> >politically,
> >> >> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own
> >agenda,
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >not
> >> >> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the
public.
> >> It
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >>obviouly
> >> >> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq
> >from
> >> >> >tyranny"
> >> >> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't
seem
> >> to
> >> >> care
> >> >> >> >if
> >> >> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have
> to
> >> tell
> >> >> >them
> >> >> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that
> I
> >> >*almost*
> >> >> >> >>would
> >> >> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have
stomached
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >as
> >> >> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the
> >U.S.
> >> >> had
> >> >> >> >>waited
> >> >> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N.
that
> >> >> >eventually
> >> >> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
> >> >actually
> >> >> >> >>*didn't
> >> >> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could
> be
> >> in
> >> >> >> >>charge,
> >> >> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the
country
> >> was
> >> >> >> >>restructured.
> >> >> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of
> >time
> >> >> >before
> >> >> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
> >> >> >procrastinate
> >> >> >> >>for
> >> >> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole
> >swag
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >>countries
> >> >> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little
more".
> >> Sure
> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been
worth
> >> it.
> >> >> >The
> >> >> >> >>way
> >> >> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just
hell
> >> bent
> >> >> on
> >> >> >> >war
> >> >> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer
> >would
> >> >> have
> >> >> >> >>made
> >> >> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the
U.N.
> >> >> >actually
> >> >> >> >>ended
> >> >> >> >>> up behind it or not.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH
> >DOH!!
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >> >> >>> Kim.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>Erling,
I appreciate you struggling with english to communicate with me,
and I am not mad at you, nor was I accusing Norway of
anything.
This is simple. I consider it unethical to use the death of innocent
people as an opportunity to trash my country. You come visit,
I will solidly refute every euro-socialist cliched view you hold of this
country, and send you home a better man. You need to stop
getting all your info from euro sources...
And that is as far as I am going to participate in the act of attacking
and defending anyone's country. yours or mine.
Be well
DC
"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>Please, please Don, I am not doing any defence of any terrorism or
>terrorists at all, can't you really understand these facts? And I'm not
>trying to score any cheap points at all on the London bombing or all the
>sivilians that have lost their lifes because of stupid statemen affairs
up
>against the years. I have just tried to show you an opinion, from outside
>America, how the roots to people like these can grow up and hate so much
>t
hat they are doing these kind of things.
>By the way, saw they have arrested someone up in NorthEngland after the
>bombs in London earlier today. Hope it's some of the right persons they
have
>arrested and will find them all.
>Michael Moore? you mean that famous American filmmaker that don't like the
>American President's behavings and is saying it high and clearly? Sorry
to
>say, I havn't heard him speaking or seeing any of his films. Have just read
>about him, that he have won big American and international prizes for works
>like "Fahrenheit 9/11". It must have reasons that he have won these high
>prizes and I think it can't be for any lies he have told in these films.
>
>So, yes I did it again Don, but not for the reasons you are throwing at
me
>here. You see, I don't need any Michael Moore or any President or American
>lifestylist to think for me at all.
>
>Nonsense, accusations, and lies? Have you documentations to stand besides
>your speaking here or is it just believings? Sitting nearly three years
in
>different Scandinavian libraries, doing research for a book about second
>worldwar and my father, gave me plenty of documentations about the last
>couple of hundred years of wars to stand behind what I'm trying to say here
>about war and terror.
>
>Sorry to hear that you don't know at all what Norway stands for in humanity
>and political thinking. If it wasn't for me, maybe you didn't had any
>knowings about Norway at all? So, I think it's time for you to find out
real
>documentations and facts about that nation too before throwing out talk
>about racism and intolerance that really can be used as a mirror to why
the
>world have all these kind of problems.
>
>Take care
>
>erlilo
>
>
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d402ed$1@linux...
>>
>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>Hello again Don,
>>>I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have
>>>written
>>
>>>at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an
>>>patriotic
>>
>>>American and have gone directly and deeply into your shooting grave,
>>>firing
>>
>>>up at once at all those bastards that's saying "ugly" things about
>>>America;-)
>>
>> Erling, that simply isn't the case. What I was unhappy about was
>> you using dead bombing victims as another opportunity to trash a
>> country to do not understand, and everything you know about
>> seems to come from Michael Moore. I certainly understood you.
>>
>> So, you did it again!
>>
>> Even more nonsense, accusations, and lies. This is your solution
>> to Islamic terrorism... Maybe when they blow up your friends and
>> family we can all talk about Norweigan racism and intolerance...
>>
>> Swell.
>>
>> Bye Erling.
>>
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>Cool! What do the switches do?
Gantt
DC wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> Been doing some different projects recently.
>
> Here's a pickguard I designed.
>
> I love Mondrian (obviously...)
>
> DC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
> Name: DSC04291b.jpg
> DSC04291b.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64So, does your DAC-1 get it's clock from the Mytek?
Gantt
Mr Simplicity wrote:
> Mine is a Stereo96 ADC.
> http://www.mytekdigital.com/stereo96.htm
> I'm taking theWC output from the unit and feeding
> it into a Lucid GenX6 which is set to distribute an external clock signal
> rather than generate it's own signal and I'm distributing the Mytec clock
> to x MECs, 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and a Lexicon reverb unit.
>
> I was using the Lucid clock before I got the Mytek. The Mytek Stereo 96 and
> a Lucid CKL6 distro module would cost less than an Apogee big Ben. The Mytek
> clock is rated at 9 picoseconds which is about the best I've run across,
> plus you get a couple of excellent A/D converters to boot.
>
> ;o)
>
> "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:42d3c656$1@linux...
> >
> > So, your using the word clock that resides in the Mytek 8channel A/D
> unit???
> > or a freestanding mytek word clock?
> > Rod
> > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > >I use a Mytek AD 24/96 with Paris. It has a bit more top end air, but
> when
> > >the Paris converters are slaved to the Mytek clock, I put the Paris
> > >converters a bit ahead sonically. I think that given the choice of an 8
> > >channel tracking scenario using Mytek vs Paris, I'd probably pick the
> Paris
> > >converters for most things. I pretty much just use the Mytek for Vox
> tracks
> > >andacoustic guitar with SDC's if I'm going with a tube preamp or tube mic
> > as
> > >the characteristics of the Mytek complement the sound of tube pre's/mics
> > >pretty well. The Paris converters, when slaved to the 9ps Mytec clock
> sound
> > >just awesome......very sonically balanced and phat.
> > >
> > >Deej
> > >
> > >"Paul O'Connor" <pmproductions007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >news:42d2b448@linux...
> > >> I did a search but couldn't find a topic on this.
> > >>
> > >> I was wondering if anyone is using Paris with any other AD converters
> > such
> > >> as Apogee or Brand X?
> > >> Is it possible and if so could someone be so kind as to share their
> > >> experiences and setups.
> > >>
> > >> Thank You!
> > >>
> > >> Paul O'Connor
> > >> P. M. Productions
> > >> Breckenridge, TX
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >I hate 5-way switches, so I use a couple of little switches to
add the neck or bridge in any position. That way you can get
neck and bridge with a 3-way or any other combination. The switch
down near the edge of the body is a blower switch for going around
the vol pot. (I kept banging into the volume knob and turning it
down while playing) I don't like tone controls on guitars either,
so they are gone.
DC
Gantt Kushner <gizmo@his.com> wrote:
>Cool! What do the switches do?
>
>Gantt
>
>DC wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Been doing some different projects recently.
>>
>> Here's a pickguard I designed.
>>
>> I love Mondrian (obviously...)
>>
>> DC
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>> Name: DSC04291b.jpg
>> DSC04291b.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
>> Encoding: base64
>The DAC-1 receiv
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55607 is a reply to message #55605] |
Tue, 12 July 2005 18:02 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
es it's clock signal from a Paris AES module prototype that
I have here. I have also used it with the Paris S/PDIF output. When Paris is
clocked to the Mytek, the clock signal that is imbedded in the digital
output is the same as the Mytek clock. The DAC-1 takes this signal and
upsamples it to 96kHZ and then converts it to an analog signal.
;o)
"Gantt Kushner" <gizmo@his.com> wrote in message
news:42D48018.C64F645@his.com...
> So, does your DAC-1 get it's clock from the Mytek?
>
> Gantt
>
> Mr Simplicity wrote:
>
> > Mine is a Stereo96 ADC.
> > http://www.mytekdigital.com/stereo96.htm
> > I'm taking theWC output from the unit and feeding
> > it into a Lucid GenX6 which is set to distribute an external clock
signal
> > rather than generate it's own signal and I'm distributing the Mytec
clock
> > to x MECs, 2 x RME HDSP 9652's and a Lexicon reverb unit.
> >
> > I was using the Lucid clock before I got the Mytek. The Mytek Stereo 96
and
> > a Lucid CKL6 distro module would cost less than an Apogee big Ben. The
Mytek
> > clock is rated at 9 picoseconds which is about the best I've run across,
> > plus you get a couple of excellent A/D converters to boot.
> >
> > ;o)
> >
> > "Rod Lincoln" <rlincoln@nospam.kc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:42d3c656$1@linux...
> > >
> > > So, your using the word clock that resides in the Mytek 8channel A/D
> > unit???
> > > or a freestanding mytek word clock?
> > > Rod
> > > "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> > > >I use a Mytek AD 24/96 with Paris. It has a bit more top end air, but
> > when
> > > >the Paris converters are slaved to the Mytek clock, I put the Paris
> > > >converters a bit ahead sonically. I think that given the choice of an
8
> > > >channel tracking scenario using Mytek vs Paris, I'd probably pick the
> > Paris
> > > >converters for most things. I pretty much just use the Mytek for Vox
> > tracks
> > > >andacoustic guitar with SDC's if I'm going with a tube preamp or tube
mic
> > > as
> > > >the characteristics of the Mytek complement the sound of tube
pre's/mics
> > > >pretty well. The Paris converters, when slaved to the 9ps Mytec clock
> > sound
> > > >just awesome......very sonically balanced and phat.
> > > >
> > > >Deej
> > > >
> > > >"Paul O'Connor" <pmproductions007@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >news:42d2b448@linux...
> > > >> I did a search but couldn't find a topic on this.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was wondering if anyone is using Paris with any other AD
converters
> > > such
> > > >> as Apogee or Brand X?
> > > >> Is it possible and if so could someone be so kind as to share their
> > > >> experiences and setups.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank You!
> > > >>
> > > >> Paul O'Connor
> > > >> P. M. Productions
> > > >> Breckenridge, TX
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>WHAT THE?!?
To my astonishment, I just got back to my desk and found a mysterious letter.
I was fully expecting the letter to tell me I'm not going to have a company
car anymore, which has been an ongoing issue here at work, but, to my AMAZEMENT...
....I've somehow scored myself an extra $5000 a year!! WOOHOO!!
First higher pay is Friday, and being monthly there'll be something like
$250-$300 extra in there. YIPPEE!!!!
Anybody got a recommendation of a first class beer I should buy a slab (case)
of to celebrate? :o)
Cheers,
Kim.Hello everyone what is the maximum numbrer of EDS-1000 cards that one Windows
system can work and work properly.. ?? I heared.. W
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55616 is a reply to message #55607] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 03:29 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
company, right? A corporation
is a non-living entity, a group of people endeavoring to make money in a
business enterprise or non-profit organization, right? Wrong. A corporation
is indeed a non-living entity, a group of people looking to make money. But
thanks to a Supreme Court decision, corporations are also actual living entities
in every legal sense of the word, with all rights and privileges of citizenship
- and several more besides - intact.
A Short History of Corporations
The word "corporation" comes from the Latin "corpus," or "body." The
Oxford English Dictionary defines "corporation" as "a group of people authorized
to act as an individual." The history of corporations in America is intertwined
with the story of the revolution that birthed this nation. British corporations
in colonial America were rebelled against vigorously as representatives of
the Crown, which they were.
Many of the principal actors in the American revolution, among them George
Washington, wanted to throw off British rule because they felt their ability
to conduct commerce freely was being disrupted. When 60 Boston residents
hurled the tea into Boston Harbor in 1773, it was an attack specifically
upon the economic power and supremacy of a corporation called the British
East India Tea Company, which had been undercutting the profits of colonial
merchants thanks to the passage of the Tea Acts.
After the revolution, and for a hundred years, the American people bore
a deep distrust of the corporation, and corporations were regulated severely.
Corporate charters were created by individual states, and those states had
the power to revoke that charter if the corporation was deemed to be acting
against the public good or had deviated from its charter. Corporations were
not allowed to own other corporations, nor were they allowed to participate
in the political process.
Very slowly over that 100 years, however, the power of the corporation
began to grow. In the 1818 Supreme Court case "Dartmouth College v. Woodward,"
Daniel Webster, advocating for Dartmouth, argued passionately for the power
of corporations in regards to property rights. The Court sided with Webster
and corporate rights, stating: "The opinion of the Court, after mature deliberation,
is that this corporate charter is a contract, the obligation of which cannot
be impaired without violating the Constitution of the United States. This
opinion appears to us to be equally supported by reason, and by the former
decisions of this Court."
A good deal of hell was raised after this decision, with many citizens
and state legislatures standing upon the right of a state to repeal or amend
a corporate charter. Seven years later, however, another Supreme Court case
buttressed the power of the corporation with their decision in "Society for
the Preservation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts v. Town of Pawlet." The Society
was seeking to protect its colonial-era property grants in Vermont, while
Vermont was seeking to revoke those grants. The Court decided in favor of
the Society, and explicitly extended the same protections to corporation-owned
property as are enjoyed by property-owning natural persons.
Corporations in America began to become truly powerful with the rise
of the railroads. Railroads were the lifeblood of the growing nation, carrying
both agriculture and industry from one side of the country to the other.
This was a highly profitable enterprise, and railroad corporations began
to exert heavy influence on both state and federal leaders. Corporate attorneys
boldly asserted the precedents set in the Dartmouth and Society Supreme Court
decisions, demanding that corporations deserved to have at least some of
the rights of natural persons. Meanwhile, attorneys loyal to the railroads
began to rise through the ranks of the Judiciary, finally finding seats on
the highest bench.
This process came to a final head in 1886, when the Supreme Court heard
the case "Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad." Arguments over
the rights of corporations as persons had been raging for decades, and Chief
Justice Waite pounded home the nail: "The court does not wish to hear argument
on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the
Constitution, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction
the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all
of the opinion that it does."
"We are all of the opinion that it does."
The pertinent section of the Fourteenth Amendment reads, "All persons
born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction
thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they
reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges
or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive
any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor
deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Before the Santa Clara decision, this amendment applied only to living,
breathing people. After Santa Clara, it applied also to massively wealthy
corporations, groups of people authorized to act as individuals, but beyond
the kinds of legal liabilities natural persons are subject to. The Santa
Clara decision, and subsequent decisions affirming it, created the formidable
distinction between the citizen and the super-citizen.
Both have purchasing power, both can give money to whomever or whatever
they please, but the difference lies in the extent to which this can be done.
A natural person can buy a house and give money to a politician. A wealthy
corporation, on the other hand, can buy a thousand houses and give money
to a thousand politicians. In other words, a corporation which enjoys the
same rights as a natural person has a thousand times the power and influence
of a natural person over the economics and politics of the country. That
is a super-citizen.
Because these super-citizens can exert so much power, their rights have
been dramatically extended over the years. In the 1950s, for example, corporations
paid some 40% of the taxes in
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55625 is a reply to message #55616] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 08:29 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
sis for reform after reform, for the
> strengthening of the rights of minorities, women, and basically anyone who
> would be made subservient to anyone else. The struggle took a long time,
> and continues today with much remaining to do before that equality is
truly
> achieved, but the strength of those words as written has been proven time
> and again to be more than a match for anyone who would stand on the neck
> of a fellow citizen.
>
> That's what the billboard reads, anyway. That's the propaganda, the
myth,
> the way we rock ourselves to sleep at night. The truth is significantly
different,
> however, and is at the root of just about everything that has gone wrong
> with this great democratic experiment.
>
> We are not all created equal, in fact. This inequality is not based on
> race, or sex, or religion, but upon the slow development of a body of laws
> that have created and empowered a breed of super-citizens which rule over
> every aspect of our lives, almost completely beyond the reach of justice.
> These super-citizens exist today under the familiar name "corporation."
>
> But wait, a corporation is basically a company, right? A corporation
> is a non-living entity, a group of people endeavoring to make money in a
> business enterprise or non-profit organization, right? Wrong. A
corporation
> is indeed a non-living entity, a group of people looking to make money.
But
> thanks to a Supreme Court decision, corporations are also actual living
entities
> in every legal sense of the word, with all rights and privileges of
citizenship
> - and several more besides - intact.
>
> A Short History of Corporations
>
> The word "corporation" comes from the Latin "corpus," or "body." The
> Oxford English Dictionary defines "corporation" as "a group of people
authorized
> to act as an individual." The history of corporations in America is
intertwined
> with the story of the revolution that birthed this nation. British
corporations
> in colonial America were rebelled against vigorously as representatives of
> the Crown, which they were.
>
> Many of the principal actors in the American revolution, among them
George
> Washington, wanted to throw off British rule because they felt their
ability
> to conduct commerce freely was being disrupted. When 60 Boston residents
> hurled the tea into Boston Harbor in 1773, it was an attack specifically
> upon the economic power and supremacy of a corporation called the British
> East India Tea Company, which had been undercutting the profits of
colonial
> merchants thanks to the passage of the Tea Acts.
>
> After the revolution, and for a hundred years, the American people
bore
> a deep distrust of the corporation, and corporations were regulated
severely.
> Corporate charters were created by individual states, and those states had
> the power to revoke that charter if the corporation was deemed to be
acting
> against the public good or had deviated from its charter. Corporations
were
> not allowed to own other corporations, nor were they allowed to
participate
> in the political process.
>
> Very slowly over that 100 years, however, the power of the corporation
> began to grow. In the 1818 Supreme Court case "Dartmouth College v.
Woodward,"
> Daniel Webster, advocating for Dartmouth, argued passionately for the
power
> of corporations in regards to property rights. The Court sided with
Webster
> and corporate rights, stating: "The opinion of the Court, after mature
deliberation,
> is that this corporate charter is a contract, the obligation of which
cannot
> be impaired without violating the Constitution of the United States. This
> opinion appears to us to be equally supported by reason, and by the former
> decisions of this Court."
>
> A good deal of hell was raised after this decision, with many citizens
> and state legislatures standing upon the right of a state to repeal or
amend
> a corporate charter. Seven years later, however, another Supreme Court
case
> buttressed the power of the corporation with their decision in "Society
for
> the Preservation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts v. Town of Pawlet." The
Society
> was seeking to protect its colonial-era property grants in Vermont, while
> Vermont was seeking to revoke those grants. The Court decided in favor of
> the Society, and explicitly extended the same protections to
corporation-owned
> property as are enjoyed by property-owning natural persons.
>
> Corporations in America began to become truly powerful with the rise
> of the railroads. Railroads were the lifeblood of the growing nation,
carrying
> both agriculture and industry from one side of the country to the other.
> This was a highly profitable enterprise, and railroad corporations began
> to exert heavy influence on both state and federal leaders. Corporate
attorneys
> boldly asserted the precedents set in the Dartmouth and Society Supreme
Court
> decisions, demanding that corporations deserved to have at least some of
> the rights of natural persons. Meanwhile, attorneys loyal to the railroads
> began to rise through the ranks of the Judiciary, finally finding seats on
> the highest bench.
>
> This process came to a final head in 1886, when the Supreme Court
heard
> the case "Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad." Arguments over
> the rights of corporations as persons had been raging for decades, and
Chief
> Justice Waite pounded home the nail: "The court does not wish to hear
argument
> on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the
> Constitution, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its
jurisdiction
> the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are
all
> of the opinion that it does."
>
> "We are all of the opinion that it does."
>
> The pertinent section of the Fourteenth Amendment reads, "All persons
> born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction
> thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they
> reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the
privileges
> or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State
deprive
> any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor
> deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the
laws."
>
>
> Before the Santa Clara decision, this amendment applied only to
living,
> breathing people. After Santa Clara, it applied also to massively wealthy
> corporations, groups of people authorized to act as individuals, but
beyond
> the kinds of legal liabilities natural persons are subject to. The Santa
> Clara decision, and subsequent decisions affirming it, created the
formidable
> distinction between the citizen and the super-citizen.
>
> Both have purchasing power, both can give money to whomever or
whatever
> they please, but the difference lies in the extent to which this can be
done.
> A natural person can buy a house and give money to a politician. A wealthy
> corporation, on the other hand, can buy a thousand houses and give money
> to a thousand politicians. In other words, a corporation which enjoys the
> same rights as a natural person has a thousand times the power and
influence
> of a natural person over the economics and politics of the country. That
> is a super-citizen.
>
> Because these super-citizens can exert so much power, their rights
have
> been dramatically extended over the years. In the 1950s, for example,
corporations
> paid some 40% of the taxes in this country. They flexed their muscles and
> exerted their influence, and by 1980 were paying only 26% of the taxes in
> this country. The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 slashed that payment
> to 8%.
>
> The economic boon enjoyed by these super-citizens is augmented by the
> fact that regular citizens' tax dollars are used by the government to
purchase
> goods and services from corporations involved in the production of
weapons,
> petroleum, timber and agricultural products. Corporate perks like jets,
elaborate
> headquarters, public relations firms, and e
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55644 is a reply to message #55616] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 10:01 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
br />
>>>>>Hello again Don,
>>>>>I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have
>>>>>written
>>>>
>>>>>at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an
>>>>>patriotic
>>>>
>>>>>American and have gone directly and deeply into your shooting grave,
>>>>>firing
>>>>
>>>>>up at once at all those bastards that's saying "ugly" things about
>>>>>America;-)
>>>>
>>>> Erling, that simply isn't the case. What I was unhappy about was
>>>> you using dead bombing victims as another opportunity to trash a
>>>> country to do not understand, and everything you know about
>>>> seems to come from Michael Moore. I certainly understood you.
>>>>
>>>> So, you did it again!
>>>>
>>>> Even more nonsense, accusations, and lies. This is your solution
>>>> to Islamic terrorism... Maybe when they blow up your friends and
>>>> family we can all talk about Norweigan racism and intolerance...
>>>>
>>>> Swell.
>>>>
>>>> Bye Erling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>I was at a dysfunctional family gathering the other day when my uncle Bob
(Who I hate)started punching me in the face. I stood there and took it cause
he's my uncle after all. Just then my neighbour appeared and started to
punch my uncle in the face, well I kick him square in the nuts, why you ask?
Because he isn't family, and only family get to punch family in the face
without retribution.
Make sense???
I didn't expect it to.
Thats what goes on in Iraq. Uncle Saddam was punching everyone in the face,
the world didn't like it and stepped in only to get a black eye for their
efforts.
I am from Canada and if GWB wanted to invade someone for oil he would only
have to drive across the border and take it from us. Oh crap now I'm
scared...no worries though I'll break out a few beers and donuts and we'll
have a party eh.
Peace
D
"Neil" <IUIOU@IUOIU.com> wrote in message news:42ce7f5a$1@linux...
>
> "Cujo" <chris@nospamapplemanstudio.com> wrote:
> >
> >My wife is a Brit, she was very upset this morning.
> >I had to drive her to work as she would get on the T here in Boston.
> >That said,and I am not trying to get any fights started as I respect all
> >of your opinions. the was on Iraq seems not to be a retaliation eh? seems
> >more like a planned offensive to me. I though were supposed to be hunting
> >Bin Laden? Anyone with a support or troops sticker on their car offended
> >the Karl Rove "may" have outed a CIA operative?
>
> Well, I don't have a "support our troops" ribbon, but I DO
> support our troops... they're following orders, not making
> policy; and yes, if Rove was the one who outed Valerie Plame
> (I assume that's who you're referring to), then I think he
> should be tried for treason & pay the price if found guilty.
>
> NeilI can pretty much agree with that (besides the racist bullshit).
I just dont get where Bush invading Iraq to start WWIII fits into that
framework.
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d548d1$1@linux...
> First, you speak LOUDLY, against the head-choppers and suicide
> bombers and their evil leaders. Turn the tide of world opinion
> towards universal condemnation of these acts instead of white-man
> guilt and narcissistic breast-beating and finger pointing at Bush and
> Blair. Then support those who ensure your tolerant, peaceful,
> intellectual lives will still be here to live in 10 years.
>
> And THEN, when the rest of Islam rises up against the
> head-choppers and lunatics and demands democracy and decent
> treatment of women. THEN, if you want to talk about Kyoto, and
> Native Americans, and Social Justice, and "negroes" (hey, did you
> say NEGROES? man, there ain't been no negroes around for 50
> years...) <grin> THEN I will sit down at the table with you and
> talk about what fools Johnson and Nixon were, and how
> anti-communism made us do stupid stuff, and yadda yadda, but
> do not bring these things up in the context of those poor dead
> people in London!
>
> Have a great day
>
> DC
>
>
>
> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>Don, I knew it well that you're not mad at me but feelings for right or
>
>>wrong can often do some stupid behavings all over the world.
>>If we don't get sourches from all sides, not only one side, we will grow
> up
>>without wisedom at all in our minds. The documentations I for the most
>>have
>
>>found was not only "made in Europe", there were plenty of American
>>documents
>
>>too. I wanted to find out something from different sides, trying to find
>
>>some understandings. You see, I had to find out why my father had to be
>
>>killed in the second worldwar because of different leaders stupidness and
> I
>>must say I found out a whole lot, as you may have seen with my struggling
>
>>writings here up against the year:-).
>>
>>Take care, Don
>>
>>erlilo
>>
>>
>>
>>There are
>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d4682b$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Erling,
>>>
>>> I appreciate you struggling with english to communicate with me,
>>> and I am not mad at you, nor was I accusing Norway of
>>> anything.
>>>
>>> This is simple. I consider it unethical to use the death of innocent
>>> people as an opportunity to trash my country. You come visit,
>>> I will solidly refute every euro-socialist cliched view you hold of this
>>> country, and send you home a better man. You need to stop
>>> getting all your info from euro sources...
>>>
>>> And that is as far as I am going to participate in the act of attacking
>>> and defending anyone's country. yours or mine.
>>>
>>> Be well
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>Please, please Don, I am not doing any defence of any terrorism or
>>>>terrorists at all, can't you really understand these facts? And I'm not
>>>
>>>>trying to score any cheap points at all on the London bombing or all the
>>>
>>>>sivilians that have lost their lifes because of stupid statemen affairs
>>> up
>>>>against the years. I have just tried to show you an opinion, from
>>>>outside
>>>
>>>>America, how the roots to people like these can grow up and hate so much
>>>
>>>>t
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hat they are doing these kind of things.
>>>>By the way, saw they have arrested someone up in NorthEngland after the
>>>
>>>>bombs in London earlier today. Hope it's some of the right persons they
>>> have
>>>>arrested and will find them all.
>>>>Michael Moore? you mean that famous American filmmaker that don't like
> the
>>>
>>>>American President's behavings and is saying it high and clearly? Sorry
>>> to
>>>>say, I havn't heard him speaking or seeing any of his films. Have just
>
>>>>read
>>>
>>>>about him, that he have won big American and international prizes for
>
>>>>works
>>>
>>>>like "Fahrenheit 9/11". It must have reasons that he have won these high
>>>
>>>>prizes and I think it can't be for any lies he have told in these films.
>>>>
>>>>So, yes I did it again Don, but not for the reasons you are throwing at
>>> me
>>>>here. You see, I don't need any Michael Moore or any President or
>>>>American
>>>
>>>>lifestylist to think for me at all.
>>>>
>>>>Nonsense, accusations, and lies? Have you documentations to stand
>>>>besides
>>>
>>>>your speaking here or is it just believings? Sitting nearly three years
>>> in
>>>>different Scandinavian libraries, doing research for a book about second
>>>
>>>>worldwar and my father, gave me plenty of documentations about the last
>>>
>>>>couple of hundred years of wars to stand behind what I'm trying to say
>
>>>>here
>>>
>>>>about war and terror.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry to hear that you don't know at all what Norway stands for in
>>>>humanity
>>>
>>>>and political thinking. If it wasn't for me, maybe you didn't had any
>>>>knowings about Norway at all? So, I think it's time for you to find out
>>> real
>>>>documentations and facts about that nation too before throwing out talk
>>>
>>>>about racism and intolerance that really can be used as a mirror to why
>>> the
>>>>world have all these kind of problems.
>>>>
>>>>Take care
>>>>
>>>>erlilo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>news:42d402ed$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> "erlilo" <Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55645 is a reply to message #55389] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 10:07 |
HeavyD
Messages: 9
Registered: June 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
line.no" target="_blank">erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>>>Hello again Don,
>>>>>>I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have
>>>>>>written
>>>>>
>>>>>>at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an
>>>>>>patriotic
>>>>>
>>>>>>American and have gone directly and deeply into your shooting grave,
>>>>>>firing
>>>>>
>>>>>>up at once at all those bastards that's saying "ugly" things about
>>>>>>America;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Erling, that simply isn't the case. What I was unhappy about was
>>>>> you using dead bombing victims as another opportunity to trash a
>>>>> country to do not understand, and everything you know about
>>>>> seems to come from Michael Moore. I certainly understood you.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you did it again!
>>>>>
>>>>> Even more nonsense, accusations, and lies. This is your solution
>>>>> to Islamic terrorism... Maybe when they blow up your friends and
>>>>> family we can all talk about Norweigan racism and intolerance...
>>>>>
>>>>> Swell.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bye Erling.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> DC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>Ok Derek,
>maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you. reading the
stereotype BS you spread<
I'm not spouting stereotypes for the sake of trying to make someone *bad*
and someone else *good*. I am relating the truth I have seen based on real
world experience. If it's ugly to you, then that's good. It
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55646 is a reply to message #55644] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 10:24 |
justcron
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
's ugly to me
too. When I look at what is happening I see stereotypes, though they are not
racial, they are cultural, they are constantly evolving and they are very
real. From around 1965 through 1995 I spent a good part of my life as part
of one of these evolving stereotypes.
I am old compared to most of the folks here, I think. I was born in 1950.
The town where I was born was a small town in the southern US which was full
of hypocracy and racial predjudice. I remember some very ugly things very
vividly. Without going into a lot of detail about this, the effect of this
made me really angry and very willing to believe that there was something
wrong with what my parents generation was saying, but not doing. I also came
to distrust organized religion at a very early age because of these
experiences and the hypocracy I saw.
My grandmother had a big hammond organ in her parlor and also a baby grand
piano. From the time I was about 5 years old, I would climb up on the
benches and play the keys. I was told I had a *good ear* because I could
listen to the radio songs and figure out how to play them on the keys
(though I couldn't reach the pedals ;o). During the 50's, I lived in south
Texas (part of the time in Erling's favorite place, Corpus Christi, Texas)
and travelled across the border into Mexico often with my father. He was a
merchanical design engineer and a pilot and did a lot of work designing
large installations for the agricultural interests which were sponsored by
both rich Mexican landowners and the Mexican government (which was basically
rich Mexican and other international landowners) I saw lots more ugliness
there as far as exploitation of people by other people. It was so obviously
wrong and when I would ask my father about it, he would excuse it, but I
couldn't accept this. I became very rebellous and a what is called here, a
*problem child*
By 1965, this pissed off 15 year old kid was playing in a band that was
fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to be recognized in a fairly large
regional market. By the time I was 17 years old we were opening shows for
touring acts. Our roadies were a bunch of disillusioned ex VietNam Vets who
were majorly into drugs (especially asian varieies of pot and also opiates
and LSD/hallucenogens) and the emerging drug/anti war counterculture and
our management were a bunch of old school hollywood type entertainment
industry scumbags who would exploit their own mother if it would make them
$$$. They had no problem keeping a bunch of young kids tweaked on
amphetamines to make sure they were *up for the gig*.
By 1968, I had somehow managed to graduate from high school and had been
accepted to a number of universities. My folks were willing to do what they
could to help and I knew I couldn't sustain the music career (which was less
a career and more like a party) and continue my education, plus I was so
totally burned out from the *lifestyle* that whatever creative spark that I
had tried to cultivate during this time was in the crapper anyway. I didn't
want to be a musician any more. I was not, however, burned out on my
countercultural beliefs. I was *into it* before it was considered to be
*cool*, at least in Texas.
There was this war going on and lots of my friends were headed over there.
This country was being torn apart by dissention and I became more and more
involved in the anti-war movement and the increasingly emerging philosophy
of non-judgmentalism and defiance of the rule of law/politial anarchism.
While I was in school, I ran into a few old acquaintances. They were the
rich children of some of the people my dad had been doing business with in
Mexico. They were going to universtity in the states and were, like me,
angry, into the counterculture and we renewed our friendships. I started
going down to Mexico with them on school holidays and we would travel to
places which were pretty unbelievable. Like paradises which were mostly
untouched by human beings (except of course, the local Indians, who were not
really considered to be human by anyone, including these *enlightened* young
Mexican revolutionaries-the Indians weren't cool. They were traditionalists
and not into drugs, socialism and free love). A lot of the friends of my
Mexican friends were going to European universities and I met quite a few of
them and quite a few of their european friends who were my age and would
travel with them on holiday. We became well acquainted and we shared a lot
in common with our political philosophies which were becoming increasing
leftist-leaning. It is ironic that the children of priviledge were the ones
who most despised the systems that allowed them those priviledges.
In early 1970 I moved to Los Angeles because I wanted to get away from
Texas, go to school out there and be a part of the California scene. My
uncle was a business partner with a big television star from Texas, had a
big house and invited me to live with them while I established myself.
During the time I was there, I met quite a few of the folks in the film and
music industry and their kids.
Some of these kids are now known as part of the
*Hollywood elite* and are very active and outspoken
members of the leftist political scene in this country.
I also started getting a sense of discomfort with the drug culture that was
going on, but was still cool because it was so integrated with the rest of
the anarchistic counter culture. This is where my beliefs in
non-judgementalism were beginning to be severely challenged. The decadence
was so unbelievable that it was obviously hurting people, but it wasn't cool
to talk about it. A bunch of the kids I was hanging out with knew some
people that called themselves *The Family*. I even went out to the ranch
where some of were still living while Charles Manson, their leader, was in
jail on a multiple murder charges and I partied with them. One of my cousins
had dated one of them, a guy from McKinney Texas named Tex Watson who had
murdered people. There were some of the wierdest, scariest people you can
imagine but even despite stuff like this, no one in the Hollywood
*counterculture* was willing to believe that some aspects of their lifestyle
might not be so great. Non-judgmentalism was sooooooo *uncool*.
I continued to participate as as activist in all of the *causes du jour* I
supported gay rights and the *women's movement* (I loved the moving women)
and celebrated when birth control pills became available and abortions
became legal. I was active in the democratic party, watched as the various
power brokers emerged in that party to *take care of* the Afro American
citizens
and Mexican American farm workers. I had been gassed in anti-war protests
and had my feet firmly planted in the *hate America* movement.
Anyway, by 1973 I had graduated from my college studies with a major degree
in political science with minor studies in psychology and economics. This
liberal arts education didn't really qualify me for any kind of career path
but I was young, invincible, resourceful and I figured if I knew my way
around these things, I could pretty much make my way in the world.
The first thing I did was to take some time and go back down to Mexico. I
didn't want to be part of America anymore and I had seen a place during my
travels down there where I thought I might be happy. It was a deserted place
with a *feeling* about it. I can't describe it, but others who I have met
there who are more travelled than I am tell me they feel the same kind of
*energy* there that they have felt in places like Jerusalem, Katmandhu,
Mecca and other locations which are considered to be religious destinations.
In 1973, it was just a deserted beach with a little store owned by a Zapotec
Indian named Ramon Aguilar Villalobos and this exended family, two of which
were his in-laws, Manuel and Maria who basically founded this small village
back in the early 20th century and were very old. I spent a good part of my
life in this place and lived with this family during those times from 1973
until 1990. Unfortunately, this place is nothing like it used to be and now
even has websites dedicated to it, but I guess that's part of the story
about thie place.
I am going to post a link to this place so that you can see it. You may have
been there or know people who have. There is more to this story but I have
work to do today so I will stop now and continue later when I have the time.
This story actually does lead somewhere that is relevant to this
conversation. Sorry it has been so long but you have asked me a question
that is valid, but not easily answered, so I'll continue later if you are
interested. Though I haven't been there for a while, this was my home and is
still my second home-
I know a lot of the people in these pictures. I watched them grow up and
taught a few of them how to swim and catch fish. the beautiful young woman,
Claudia is the
niece of my friend Ramon. The two people, John and Maria were guests at my
home in Austin after one of my trips to Zipolite and we watched the events
unfold at Tienamen Square on television. They were having some bad drug
problems even then. They are both kind, intelligent victims of the social
experiment that is
happening there.
http://www.gre
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55647 is a reply to message #55604] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 10:20 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
atvavavoom.com/stories/storyReader$56
This link is also descriptive of how this place has evolved and what the
place was like the last time I was there.
http://community-2.webtv.net/ivanjay/IVANJSNAVELYHOMEPORT/
more to come......
Regards,
Doug
"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d45df1@linux...
>
> maybe im missing the irony or some linguistic fineprint,
> but as far as im concerned, doug, no i dont understand you.
> reading the stereotype BS you spread, im frankly shocked,
> thats pretty much all there is to it. i definetly dont recognize you.
>
> maybe its because im a european hypocrite sitting on my ass or something.
> cause thats the way we are, we "euros", right?
>
> *shakes head in disbelief*
>
>
>
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >Yes I do. Unfortunately, we apparently understand each other.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >DJ
> >
> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message news:42d45332$1@linux...
> >>
> >> you know how i meant it.
> >>
> >> whatever.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >It makes me sad too Derek. If the governments of Europe would learn
from
> >> the
> >> >mistakes of the past, it would make me less sad.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42d436c1$1@linux...
> >> >>
> >> >> doug,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> your fucked up picture of europe truly makes me sad.
> >> >> youve come a long way, really.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> regards,
> >> >> derek
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> > http://www.rotten.com/library/history/war/wmd/fuel-air-explo sion/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Maybe this??? Lots less radioactivity.........but
> >seriously.............
> >> >> >you're right that Muslims are going to need to get real proactive
> with
> >> >their
> >> >> >own. There's some pretty Hitlerian dialog going on in Holland these
> >days
> >> >> >about how to clean up the *Islamic problem*. It's funny about how
> the
> >> >Euro's
> >> >> >whine and bitch about how unfair and awful war is, then when the
chips
> >> >are
> >> >> >down.......bingo!!!!!! let's sit around on our collective asses and
> >watch
> >> >> >the Serbs dio a little ethnic housekeeping........oh shit!!!!
> >> >.......those
> >> >> >meddling Americans came along and saved the Muslims and spoiled all
> >our
> >> >> >fun.............but hell, let's go visit our buddy Sadaam and pick
> up
> >> a
> >> >> few
> >> >> >million barrells of oil while we're there. Those kids who are dying
> of
> >> >> >starvation and disease due to our turning a blind eye to his
> >violations
> >> >> of
> >> >> >UN sanctions won't care. Hell, they're too busy swatting the flies
> off
> >> >their
> >> >> >festering wounds and running to the crapper with
disentery.........and
> >> >just
> >> >> >maybe while we're there we get lucky in a rape room. Whaddaya say
> >guys?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The hypocracy is just unbelievable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42cf19b3$1@linux...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Your whole line of thought, if correct - especially your 3rd &
> >> >> >> 4th paragraphs - would mean that Bush is one of the most evil
> >> >> >> sonsofbeeatches ever to walk the face of the earth. I find it
> >> >> >> hard to believe that in ANY free society, that could be the
> >> >> >> case. Dictatorships, yeah, free societies, nah.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Ya know, as a side thought, for awhile there, I was really
> >> >> >> starting to feel like we made a mistake by going into Iraq...
> >> >> >> that we were hornswaggled, as they say - conned by the Iraqi's
> >> >> >> who are NOW in power, and who had their own agenda against
> >> >> >> Saddam. Now, with these latest bombings, I'm back to being
> >> >> >> all about retribution, since massive force is the only thing
> >> >> >> these extremists seem to understand - or if they don't
> >> >> >> understand it, at least we'll lower their numbers & limit their
> >> >> >> capabilities by that method. So I'm now thinking that a good
> >> >> >> position would be: for every terrorist attack that occurs
> >> >> >> against us or one of our allies, we should nuke an Islamic city.
> >> >> >> One bomb - done. Next? Oh you want to bomb another embassy? OK,
> >> >> >> fine, there goes another Islamic city... bigger bomb this time.
> >> >> >> Trust me, that kind of shit wouldn't last too long before we
> >> >> >> had peace on earth & goodwill towards all men for a good long
> >> >> >> time.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Neil
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Neil
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Mike Audet" <mike@mike......com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Hi Mr. Simplicity,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Unfortunately, Iraq is very much about oil for the US - big US
> oil
> >> >> >companies.
> >> >> >> > And, leaving Iraqi oil in the ground, or burning it in bombed
> >> >pipelines
> >> >> >> >is exactly what they want to do. This whole war was about
> >> >destabilizing
> >> >> >> >the Middle East so that oil prices would rise and make billions
> for
> >> >> >George's
> >> >> >> >friends, screwing everyone else in the process.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Osama has publicly said that his mission is to bankrupt the US
> the
> >> >same
> >> >> >> way
> >> >> >> >that he feels he bankrupted the USSR in Afghanistan as payback
> for
> >> >> >Israeli/US
> >> >> >> >aggression in Lebanon in the 1980s. I'm not defending him or
his
> >> >agenda
> >> >> >> >AT ALL, but we need to look at our enemies clearly - and our
> >so-called
> >> >> >friends
> >> >> >> >- if we're going to make good decisions.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Just like Osama, Bush and his friends want to bankrupt the US
> >> >government
> >> >> >> >in several ways, too: they want to give as much money as
possible
> >> to
> >> >> >their
> >> >> >> >corporate friends through reconstruction projects and military
> >> >contracts,
> >> >> >> >they want to dismantle, as much as possible, what little social
> >> >> >safety-net
> >> >> >> >the US has, and they want to bleed the American people directly
> >with
> >> >> high
> >> >> >> >gas and oil prices.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The best way to end social spending and bring the US back to the
> >early
> >> >> >1900s
> >> >> >> >economically (which seems to be part of the conservative
ideology)
> >> is
> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >saddle the government with so much debt that the public simply
> >can't
> >> >> >afford
> >> >> >> >social programs anymore. He's intentionally trying to bankrupt
> the
> >> US
> >> >> >government
> >> >> >> >to further entrench the power of his rich friends, and he's
doing
> >> a
> >> >great
> >> >> >> >job.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >There are two things that most so-called conservatives don't
seem
> >> to
> >> >> >consider.
> >> >> >> > One, if you don't redistribute a certain amount of wealth
through
> >> >> >taxation,
> >> >> >> >it gets so concentrated that the economy collapses and nobodies
> >wealth
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >worth anything anymore. Second, cutting taxes shrinks the
economy.
> >> >> Why?
> >> >> >> > Because individuals, especially rich ones, don't spend 100% of
> >every
> >> >> >dollar
> >> >> >> >they earn - they save some of it. Governments generally spend
> >every
> >> >> red
> >> >> >> >cent they bring in. So, when George cuts taxes for his rich
> >friends,
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >US economy actually shrinks by the amount that people save and
> >> >government
> >> >> >> >would have spent, further contributing the bankrupting of
America.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >As a Canadian, I'm extremely worried about the direction that
the
> >> US
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> heading
> >> >> >> >in. Bush and the terrorists seem to have the same agenda.
There's
> >> no
> >> >> >success
> >> >> >> >for Canada if the US falls apart. I can't even tell you how
> >> >heartbroken
> >> >> >> >and disappointed I was when George won the election. I've
always
> >> >> >believed
> >> >> >> >in and admired Americans - and I still do - but these are very
> >> >worrisome
> >> >> >> >times.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by this
> >> >senselessness
> >> >> >> > - American, British, Canadian, Iraqi, and everyone else.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >All the best,
> >> >> >> >Mike Audet
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>Kim,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>I hear your arguments and I respect your opinion. I do not,
> >however,
> >> >> >agree
> >> >> >> >>with your opinion. Waiting any longher would have done no good
> at
> >> all
> >> >> >(my
> >> >> >> >>opinion of course) and despite the glee that those opposed to
> the
> >> war
> >> >> >feel
> >> >> >> >>due to there having been no WMD's found, the delay could have
> >easily
> >> >> >> >>provided the time for disposing of them across the border in
Syria
> >> or
> >> >> in
> >> >> >> >the
> >> >> >> >>desolation of the Iraqi hinterland. I don't think this story is
> >over
> >> >> >yet.
> >> >> >> >I
> >> >> >> >>do think that those who dislike Bush desperately want it to be
> >over
> >> >> so
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> >>can point fingers and trumpet their riteousness, all the while
> >> >bellowing
> >> >> >> >>that the war was about WMD's and there weren't any found,
> >therefore,
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >war
> >> >> >> >>was unjustified. This is political spin at it's absolute lowest
> >> >partisan
> >> >> >> >>level. This war was about justifiably enforcing UN resolutions
> and
> >> in
> >> >> >doing
> >> >> >> >>so, removing a bloodthirsty monster who was a proven menace to
> >> >stability
> >> >> >> >in
> >> >> >> >>the region. Would it have happened if 9-11 hadn't happened? I
> >don't
> >> >> >know,
> >> >> >> >>but I think eventually Sadaam would have succeeded in shooting
> >down
> >> >> one
> >> >> >> >of
> >> >> >> >>our aircraft that was enforcing the no-fly zone and we would
have
> >> >done
> >> >> >> >>something. Obviously the EU, Russia and the UN didn't give a
damn
> >> >about
> >> >> >> >>anything but oil. It's blatantly obvious that keeping Sadaam in
> >power
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >>all about oil. If this was about oil to us, I guarantee we
would
> >> >have
> >> >> >> half
> >> >> >> >>a million men over there right now guarding the pipelines and
> >> >> >infrastructure
> >> >> >> >>from border to border and we'd be sucking that teat dry as a
bone
> >> as
> >> >> we
> >> >> >> >>speak. As you have so astutely noticed, Americans aren't
subtle.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Regards,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Deej
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:42cde2d0$1@linux...
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> >and it's a shame that they are apparently the only ones on
> >earth
> >> >> who
> >> >> >> >saw
> >> >> >> >>> any
> >> >> >> >>> >merit in enforcing UN resolutions
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> That annoys me too. I'm still anti-bush because I *hate* the
> way
> >> >they
> >> >> >> >went
> >> >> >> >>> about it... pretending it was an anti-terror thing (which
> was
> >> >> >clearly
> >> >> >> >>garbage).
> >> >> >> >>> The issue I have too is that to me it seems that GWB and co
> >wanted
> >> >> >Saddam
> >> >> >> >>> out not really so much because he was a bad man, but because
> >they
> >> >> >noticed
> >> >> >> >>> Saddam was dealing with others, and figured "freeing" Iraq
would
> >> >give
> >> >> >> >them
> >> >> >> >>> more oil power.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> It really frustrates me that as I look around those events,
> >> >> >politically,
> >> >> >> >>> every country pretty much seemed to be in it for their own
> >agenda,
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >not
> >> >> >> >>> for peace. Indeed the same could be said for much of the
public.
> >> It
> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >>obviouly
> >> >> >> >>> sold as anti-terror because GWB & co didn't think "free Iraq
> >from
> >> >> >tyranny"
> >> >> >> >>> would sell because, simply put, a lot of the public don't
seem
> >> to
> >> >> care
> >> >> >> >if
> >> >> >> >>> others in some other country miles away suffer, so you have
> to
> >> tell
> >> >> >them
> >> >> >> >>> that Iraq pose a threat. See, if GWB hadn't lied about that
> I
> >> >*almost*
> >> >> >> >>would
> >> >> >> >>> have been on his side... though I still couldn't have
stomached
> >> >that
> >> >> >> >as
> >> >> >> >>> he was, to my mind, clearly in it for the oil. I think if the
> >U.S.
> >> >> had
> >> >> >> >>waited
> >> >> >> >>> a little longer, and put a little more pressue on the U.N.
that
> >> >> >eventually
> >> >> >> >>> the U.N. would have gotten more behind it. I think GWB & co
> >> >actually
> >> >> >> >>*didn't
> >> >> >> >>> want* the U.N. behind them, because by going alone they could
> be
> >> in
> >> >> >> >>charge,
> >> >> >> >>> and that would give them more power politically as the
country
> >> was
> >> >> >> >>restructured.
> >> >> >> >>> That's my beleif anyhow. I felt that it was only a matter of
> >time
> >> >> >before
> >> >> >> >>> enough countries voted for it in the U.N. They could only
> >> >> >procrastinate
> >> >> >> >>for
> >> >> >> >>> so long. It was big news and the public was watching. A whole
> >swag
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >>countries
> >> >> >> >>> weren't saying "no" but were saying "wait just a little
more".
> >> Sure
> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >was
> >> >> >> >>> getting tiresome, but I think holding out would have been
worth
> >> it.
> >> >> >The
> >> >> >> >>way
> >> >> >> >>> it was handled it came across too much as if GWB was just
hell
> >> bent
> >> >> on
> >> >> >> >war
> >> >> >> >>> for oil, which I think is true. Holding out a little longer
> >would
> >> >> have
> >> >> >> >>made
> >> >> >> >>> a big difference to the opinions of many IMO, whether the
U.N.
> >> >> >actually
> >> >> >> >>ended
> >> >> >> >>> up behind it or not.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Anyway, the whole thing is screwed.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> This London thing is screwed.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> And I forgot my lunch this morning. DOH!
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> And now we've got a political thread on the main group. DOH
> >DOH!!
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >> >> >>> Kim.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>Well, he doesn't have a DAC-1 yet and I don't see him around here so I'm
gettin' concerned.
;o)
"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d536f3$1@linux...
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >You do know what's gonna' happen if you don't get a
> >DAC-1................right?
>
> He will die?That's been obvious Cron.. and I didn't see any racist @#$#@ in his post.
"justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message
news:42d54e68$1@linux...
>I can pretty much agree with that (besides the racist bullshit).
>
> I just dont get where Bush invading Iraq to start WWIII fits into that
> framework.
>
> "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d548d1$1@linux...
>> First, you speak LOUDLY, against the head-choppers and suicide
>> bombers and their evil leaders. Turn the tide of world opinion
>> towards universal condemnation of these acts instead of white-man
>> guilt and narcissistic breast-beating and finger pointing at Bush and
>> Blair. Then support those who ensure your tolerant, peaceful,
>> intellectual lives will still be here to live in 10 years.
>>
>> And THEN, when the rest of Islam rises up against the
>> head-choppers and lunatics and demands democracy and decent
>> treatment of women. THEN, if you want to talk about Kyoto, and
>> Native Americans, and Social Justice, and "negroes" (hey, did you
>> say NEGROES? man, there ain't been no negroes around for 50
>> years...) <grin> THEN I will sit down at the table with you and
>> talk about what fools Johnson and Nixon were, and how
>> anti-communism made us do stupid stuff, and yadda yadda, but
>> do not bring these things up in the context of those poor dead
>> people in London!
>>
>> Have a great day
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>>
>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>Don, I knew it well that you're not mad at me but feelings for right or
>>
>>>wrong can often do some stupid behavings all over the world.
>>>If we don't get sourches from all sides, not only one side, we will grow
>> up
>>>without wisedom at all in our minds. The documentations I for the most
>>>have
>>
>>>found was not only "made in Europe", there were plenty of American
>>>documents
>>
>>>too. I wanted to find out something from different sides, trying to find
>>
>>>some understandings. You see, I had to find out why my father had to be
>>
>>>killed in the second worldwar because of different leaders stupidness and
>> I
>>>must say I found out a whole lot, as you may have seen with my struggling
>>
>>>writings here up against the year:-).
>>>
>>>Take care, Don
>>>
>>>erlilo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>There are
>>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d4682b$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> Erling,
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate you struggling with english to communicate with me,
>>>> and I am not mad at you, nor was I accusing Norway of
>>>> anything.
>>>>
>>>> This is simple. I consider it unethical to use the death of innocent
>>>> people as an opportunity to trash my country. You come visit,
>>>> I will solidly refute every euro-socialist cliched view you hold of
>>>> this
>>>> country, and send you home a better man. You need to stop
>>>> getting all your info from euro sources...
>>>>
>>>> And that is as far as I am going to participate in the act of attacking
>>>> and defending anyone's country. yours or mine.
>>>>
>>>> Be well
>>>>
>>>> DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>>Please, please Don, I am not doing any defence of any terrorism or
>>>>>terrorists at all, can't you really understand these facts? And I'm not
>>>>
>>>>>trying to score any cheap points at all on the London bombing or all
>>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>>sivilians that have lost their lifes because of stupid statemen affairs
>>>> up
>>>>>against the years. I have just tried to show you an opinion, from
>>>>>outside
>>>>
>>>>>America, how the roots to people like these can grow up and hate so
>>>>>much
>>>>
>>>>>t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> hat they are doing these kind of things.
>>>>>By the way, saw they have arrested someone up in NorthEngland after the
>>>>
>>>>>bombs in London earlier today. Hope it's some of the right persons they
>>>> have
>>>>>arrested and will find them all.
>>>>>Michael Moore? you mean that famous American filmmaker that don't like
>> the
>>>>
>>>>>American President's behavings and is saying it high and clearly? Sorry
>>>> to
>>>>>say, I havn't heard him speaking or seeing any of his films. Have just
>>
>>>>>read
>>>>
>>>>>about him, that he have won big American and international prizes for
>>
>>>>>works
>>>>
>>>>>like "Fahrenheit 9/11". It must have reasons that he have won these
>>>>>high
>>>>
>>>>>prizes and I think it can't be for any lies he have told in these
>>>>>films.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, yes I did it again Don, but not for the reasons you are throwing at
>>>> me
>>>>>here. You see, I don't need any Michael Moore or any President or
>>>>>American
>>>>
>>>>>lifestylist to think for me at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nonsense, accusations, and lies? Have you documentations to stand
>>>>>besides
>>>>
>>>>>your speaking here or is it just believings? Sitting nearly three years
>>>> in
>>>>>different Scandinavian libraries, doing research for a book about
>>>>>second
>>>>
>>>>>worldwar and my father, gave me plenty of documentations about the last
>>>>
>>>>>couple of hundred years of wars to stand behind what I'm trying to say
>>
>>>>>here
>>>>
>>>>>about war and terror.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry to hear that you don't know at all what Norway stands for in
>>>>>humanity
>>>>
>>>>>and political thinking. If it wasn't for me, maybe you didn't had any
>>>>>knowings about Norway at all? So, I think it's time for you to find out
>>>> real
>>>>>documentations and facts about that nation too before throwing out talk
>>>>
>>>>>about racism and intolerance that really can be used as a mirror to why
>>>> the
>>>>>world have all these kind of problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>Take care
>>>>>
>>>>>erlilo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>>news:42d402ed$1@linux...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>>>>Hello again Don,
>>>>>>>I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have
>>>>>>>written
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an
>>>>>>>patriotic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>American and h
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55649 is a reply to message #55646] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 11:23 |
gmmccurdy
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2007
|
Member |
|
|
o come from Michael Moore. I certainly understood you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, you did it again!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even more nonsense, accusations, and lies. This is your solution
>>>>>> to Islamic terrorism... Maybe when they blow up your friends and
>>>>>> family we can all talk about Norweigan racism and intolerance...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Swell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bye Erling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>yeah, he's mistaking it for a mac...oops i've done it now.
On 13 Jul 2005 22:33:33 +1000, "Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>To make that clearer, Windows can definately run at LEAST 8 cards. I have
>never heard of a Windows "same card limit" other than simple bandwidth and
>interrupt limitations.
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.get real pal... take a number.
"Mark McCurdy" <gmmccurdy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d55c1b$1@linux...
> That's been obvious Cron.. and I didn't see any racist @#$#@ in his post.
>
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message
> news:42d54e68$1@linux...
>>I can pretty much agree with that (besides the racist bullshit).
>>
>> I just dont get where Bush invading Iraq to start WWIII fits into that
>> framework.
>>
>> "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d548d1$1@linux...
>>> First, you speak LOUDLY, against the head-choppers and suicide
>>> bombers and their evil leaders. Turn the tide of world opinion
>>> towards universal condemnation of these acts instead of white-man
>>> guilt and narcissistic breast-beating and finger pointing at Bush and
>>> Blair. Then support those who ensure your tolerant, peaceful,
>>> intellectual lives will still be here to live in 10 years.
>>>
>>> And THEN, when the rest of Islam rises up against the
>>> head-choppers and lunatics and demands democracy and decent
>>> treatment of women. THEN, if you want to talk about Kyoto, and
>>> Native Americans, and Social Justice, and "negroes" (hey, did you
>>> say NEGROES? man, there ain't been no negroes around for 50
>>> years...) <grin> THEN I will sit down at the table with you and
>>> talk about what fools Johnson and Nixon were, and how
>>> anti-communism made us do stupid stuff, and yadda yadda, but
>>> do not bring these things up in the context of those poor dead
>>> people in London!
>>>
>>> Have a great day
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>Don, I knew it well that you're not mad at me but feelings for right or
>>>
>>>>wrong can often do some stupid behavings all over the world.
>>>>If we don't get sourches from all sides, not only one side, we will grow
>>> up
>>>>without wisedom at all in our minds. The documentations I for the most
>>>>have
>>>
>>>>found was not only "made in Europe", there were plenty of American
>>>>documents
>>>
>>>>too. I wanted to find out something from different sides, trying to find
>>>
>>>>some understandings. You see, I had to find out why my father had to be
>>>
>>>>killed in the second worldwar because of different leaders stupidness
>>>>and
>>> I
>>>>must say I found out a whole lot, as you may have seen with my
>>>>struggling
>>>
>>>>writings here up against the year:-).
>>>>
>>>>Take care, Don
>>>>
>>>>erlilo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There are
>>>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>news:42d4682b$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> Erling,
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate you struggling with english to communicate with me,
>>>>> and I am not mad at you, nor was I accusing Norway of
>>>>> anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is simple. I consider it unethical to use the death of innocent
>>>>> people as an opportunity to trash my country. You come visit,
>>>>> I will solidly refute every euro-socialist cliched view you hold of
>>>>> this
>>>>> country, and send you home a better man. You need to stop
>>>>> getting all your info from euro sources...
>>>>>
>>>>> And that is as far as I am going to participate in the act of
>>>>> attacking
>>>>> and defending anyone's country. yours or mine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Be well
>>>>>
>>>>> DC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>>>Please, please Don, I am not doing any defence of any terrorism or
>>>>>>terrorists at all, can't you really understand these facts? And I'm
>>>>>>not
>>>>>
>>>>>>trying to score any cheap points at all on the London bombing or all
>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>sivilians that have lost their lifes because of stupid statemen
>>>>>>affairs
>>>>> up
>>>>>>against the years. I have just tried to show you an opinion, from
>>>>>>outside
>>>>>
>>>>>>America, how the roots to people like these can grow up and hate so
>>>>>>much
>>>>>
>>>>>>t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> hat they are doing these kind of things.
>>>>>>By the way, saw they have arrested someone up in NorthEngland after
>>>>>>the
>>>>>
>>>>>>bombs in London earlier today. Hope it's some of the right persons
>>>>>>they
>>>>> have
>>>>>>arrested and will find them all.
>>>>>>Michael Moore? you mean that famous American filmmaker that don't like
>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>American President's behavings and is saying it high and clearly?
>>>>>>Sorry
>>>>> to
>>>>>>say, I havn't heard him speaking or seeing any of his films. Have just
>>>
>>>>>>read
>>>>>
>>>>>>about him, that he have won big American and international prizes for
>>>
>>>>>>works
>>>>>
>>>>>>like "Fahrenheit 9/11". It must have reasons that he have won these
>>>>>>high
>>>>>
>>>>>>prizes and I think it can't be for any lies he have told in these
>>>>>>films.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, yes I did it again Don, but not for the reasons you are throwing
>>>>>>at
>>>>> me
>>>>>>here. You see, I don't need any Michael Moore or any President or
>>>>>>American
>>>>>
>>>>>>lifestylist to think for me at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nonsense, accusations, and lies? Have you documentations to stand
>>>>>>besides
>>>>>
>>>>>>your speaking here or is it just believings? Sitting nearly three
>>>>>>years
>>>>> in
>>>>>>different Scandinavian libraries, doing research for a book about
>>>>>>second
>>>>>
>>>>>>worldwar and my father, gave me plenty of documentations about the
>>>>>>last
>>>>>
>>>>>>couple of hundred years of wars to stand behind what I'm trying to say
>>>
>>>>>>here
>>>>>
>>>>>>about war and terror.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sorry to hear that you don't know at all what Norway stands for in
>>>>>>humanity
>>>>>
>>>>>>and political thinking. If it wasn't for me, maybe you didn't had any
>>>>>>knowings about Norway at all? So, I think it's time for you to find
>>>>>>out
>>>>> real
>>>>>>documentations and facts about that nation too before throwing out
>>>>>>talk
>>>>>
>>>>>>abo
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bomb attacks in London England [message #55651 is a reply to message #55649] |
Wed, 13 July 2005 11:27 |
justcron
Messages: 330
Registered: May 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
tti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>>>news:42d402ed$1@linux...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>>>>>>>Hello again Don,
>>>>>>>>I can see and understand that you don't have understand what I have
>>>>>>>>written
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>at all. You have just seen words that you don't like at all, as an
>>>>>>>>patriotic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>American and have gone directly and deeply into your shooting grave,
>>>>>>>>firing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>up at once at all those bastards that's saying "ugly" things about
>>>>>>>>America;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Erling, that simply isn't the case. What I was unhappy about was
>>>>>>> you using dead bombing victims as another opportunity to trash a
>>>>>>> country to do not understand, and everything you know about
>>>>>>> seems to come from Michael Moore. I certainly understood you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, you did it again!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even more nonsense, accusations, and lies. This is your solution
>>>>>>> to Islamic terrorism... Maybe when they blow up your friends and
>>>>>>> family we can all talk about Norweigan racism and intolerance...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Swell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bye Erling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>..........and corporations are the rason'd'etre for labor unions which also
suck.........go figure.
;o)
"justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message
news:42d529af$1@linux...
> Its an interesting concept though.
>
> What used to be considered usury is now considered standard operating
> procedure. Corporate technicality helps the owners avoid responsibility,
> when that wasn't always the case.
>
> "jp" <no@mail.please> wrote in message news:42d526c2@linux...
> > Without these corporations, what would you watch? what would you record
> > music on? How would you communicate?
> >
> > Corporations are nothing without the mindless masses that feed them. If
> > you don't like it, sell all your crap and live in a cave.
> >
>
>Is that your position deej? I'm starting to lose track.
I always thought labor unions had their place... but like a small
government, prone to corruption of course.
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:42d55d8d$1@linux...
> .........and corporations are the rason'd'etre for labor unions which
> also
> suck.........go figure.
>
> ;o)
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message
> news:42d529af$1@linux...
>> Its an interesting concept though.
>>
>> What used to be considered usury is now considered standard operating
>> procedure. Corporate technicality helps the owners avoid responsibility,
>> when that wasn't always the case.
>>
>> "jp" <no@mail.please> wrote in message news:42d526c2@linux...
>> > Without these corporations, what would you watch? what would you record
>> > music on? How would you communicate?
>> >
>> > Corporations are nothing without the mindless masses that feed them. If
>> > you don't like it, sell all your crap and live in a cave.
>> >
>>
>>
>
>"justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>I can pretty much agree with that (besides the racist bullshit).
I guess that one went over your head. I was kidding Erling about
his use of the archaic term "negro". I don't expect a Norweigan
to be up on the proper use of "African American" or
"Black American" but I can still tease him about it!
Imagine what he could do to me if I was trying to use his language!
We americans often take it for granted when people from other
countries speak or write english to communicate with us, since
so few of us speak another language. I appreciate their effort, and
make a point of teasing them about it when they stumble.
No racism. sorry to disappoint you.
>I just dont get where Bush invading Iraq to start WWIII fits into that
>framework.
But you're a believer in crypto-conspiracy land. What could I
possibly say to you that you would agree with if it didn't include
your conspiracies?
DC
>
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d548d1$1@linux...
>> First, you speak LOUDLY, against the head-choppers and suicide
>> bombers and their evil leaders. Turn the tide of world opinion
>> towards universal condemnation of these acts instead of white-man
>> guilt and narcissistic breast-beating and finger pointing at Bush and
>> Blair. Then support those who ensure your tolerant, peaceful,
>> intellectual lives will still be here to live in 10 years.
>>
>> And THEN, when the rest of Islam rises up against the
>> head-choppers and lunatics and demands democracy and decent
>> treatment of women. THEN, if you want to talk about Kyoto, and
>> Native Americans, and Social Justice, and "negroes" (hey, did you
>> say NEGROES? man, there ain't been no negroes around for 50
>> years...) <grin> THEN I will sit down at the table with you and
>> talk about what fools Johnson and Nixon were, and how
>> anti-communism made us do stupid stuff, and yadda yadda, but
>> do not bring these things up in the context of those poor dead
>> people in London!
>>
>> Have a great day
>>
>> DC
>>
>>
>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d562d5$1@linux...
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>I can pretty much agree with that (besides the racist bullshit).
>
> I guess that one went over your head. I was kidding Erling about
> his use of the archaic term "negro". I don't expect a Norweigan
> to be up on the proper use of "African American" or
> "Black American" but I can still tease him about it!
you're not enlightened enough to joke about that topic, Don..."justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>you're not enlightened enough to joke about that topic, Don...
Listen up, you dopehead squirt. I will joke about any damn thing I
want to.
DCIm not sure how valid this test is, but if you're willing to answer a few
questions....
http://politicalcompass.org
I placed right near Ghandi and Nelson Mandela, almost dead center on the
social scale and to the left on the economic scalehaha...
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d563ef$1@linux...
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>
>>you're not enlightened enough to joke about that topic, Don...
>
> Listen up, you dopehead squirt. I will joke about any damn thing I
> want to.
>
> DC
>"justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>haha...
See, there you go. Glad you enjoyed it. No one calls me racist and
gets away with it. You have no idea...
DC
>
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d563ef$1@linux...
>>
>> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>
>>>you're not enlightened enough to joke about that topic, Don...
>>
>> Listen up, you dopehead squirt. I will joke about any damn thing I
>> want to.
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>haha...
lay off the sauce... all of you...
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d56698$1@linux...
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>haha...
>
> See, there you go. Glad you enjoyed it. No one calls me racist and
> gets away with it. You have no idea...
>
> DC
>
>>
>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d563ef$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>>
>>>>you're not enlightened enough to joke about that topic, Don...
>>>
>>> Listen up, you dopehead squirt. I will joke about any damn thing I
>>> want to.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>
>>
>I must have some "issues" I placed just left on the economic and just north
of the line towards Authoritarian left. I'm so confused.
"justcron" <
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sat Nov 02 13:21:59 PDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.04177 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
