Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option)
| More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76533] |
Thu, 30 November 2006 07:26  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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|
OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
would I?
So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
EFX.
Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
thinking about going this route.
Neil
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76534 is a reply to message #76533] |
Thu, 30 November 2006 08:07  |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
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Senior Member |
|
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Thanks for the info neil. I was tempted by all the dsp power on the pro card
and was debating wether to dive in blind again.thanks for the info , really.
my interest was for the dsp flavors only. Im trying to streamline my
workflow, not complicate it.
I guess for me its going to be ITB via madi .
maybe fairlight will see the light and develop full compatibility with their
gate array technology.
Isnt that what we want?
Im sick of dropping coin on shit that doesnt work without hours of grief ,
if it ever works at all.fuck the work around bullshit routine! i did enough
work makiing the money to buy the shit in the first place.
anyway, thanks for testing it out and telling it like it is :-)
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:456eea10$1@linux...
>
> OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
> was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
> Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
> consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
> That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
> I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
> would I?
>
> So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
> from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
> EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
> at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
> able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
> bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
> one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
> EFX.
>
> Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
> rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
> with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
> balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
> at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
> flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
> inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
> it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
> time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
> thinking about going this route.
>
> Neil
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76535 is a reply to message #76533] |
Thu, 30 November 2006 09:45 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
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Senior Member |
|
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I'm getting a Scope pro card that will go into a new Core Duo box (along with
my UAD card) so I should be able to give people working at 44.1 (which is
all I do) an idea of what kind of performance they can expect. Then again
it should be remembered I don't think that 'summing' is nearly what it's
cracked up to be, and I don't think 14 bit wide MIDI data streams are good
for much. So I might be a less demanding user than some.
TCB
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
>was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
>Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
>consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
>That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
>I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
>would I?
>
>So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
>from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
>EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
>at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
>able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
>bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
>one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
>EFX.
>
>Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
>rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
>with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
>balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
>at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
>flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
>inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
>it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
>time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
>thinking about going this route.
>
>Neil
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76537 is a reply to message #76535] |
Thu, 30 November 2006 11:20 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
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|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>Then again it should be remembered I don't think that 'summing'
>is nearly what it's cracked up to be,
I don't think it's a MAJOR issue, and I think the recent audio
clips I posted showing the differences between a properly-managed
ITB Native mix (and by "properly", I simply mean: minding your
gain structure all the way through, from individual channels all
the way to the 2-buss), a "stems" Native mix, and a "summed-in-
Paris" mix demonstrated that there's not a huge difference
between one & the other... there IS an audible difference,
though; and I found it interesting that there was a cross-
section of people who liked one or another of those three for
their own individual reasons, as opposed to one version that the
vast majority of people rallied round & said "yeah, that's the
one!"
When it comes to summing, I'm just looking for a solution
that's incrementally better than either of those three... I
guess we all seek our own holy grail of audio quality in one
form or another, and that's essentially what I'm doing in this
regard.
Neil
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76539 is a reply to message #76537] |
Thu, 30 November 2006 12:43 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
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Agreed Neil. I think there's a lot of snake oil on sale in the world of audio.
The 'external summing' tools are just one obvious example. There's also a
plethora of what in the finance/software world we call 'false precision.'
In the audio world that shows up when people using $200 mics and $150 preamps
spend thousands of dollars on esoteric plug-ins and computers. The secret
to a good recording is, in my opinion and in this order, a good song, good
musicians, a good performance, a good engineer, good microphones, good pres,
and a good tracking/mixing platform.
I could barely tell your three mixes from each other after a few listens.
I'd have loved to do some ABY testing.
TCB
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>>Then again it should be remembered I don't think that 'summing'
>>is nearly what it's cracked up to be,
>
>I don't think it's a MAJOR issue, and I think the recent audio
>clips I posted showing the differences between a properly-managed
>ITB Native mix (and by "properly", I simply mean: minding your
>gain structure all the way through, from individual channels all
>the way to the 2-buss), a "stems" Native mix, and a "summed-in-
>Paris" mix demonstrated that there's not a huge difference
>between one & the other... there IS an audible difference,
>though; and I found it interesting that there was a cross-
>section of people who liked one or another of those three for
>their own individual reasons, as opposed to one version that the
>vast majority of people rallied round & said "yeah, that's the
>one!"
>
>When it comes to summing, I'm just looking for a solution
>that's incrementally better than either of those three... I
>guess we all seek our own holy grail of audio quality in one
>form or another, and that's essentially what I'm doing in this
>regard.
>
>Neil
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76543 is a reply to message #76533] |
Thu, 30 November 2006 13:21 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:456eea10$1@linux...
>
> OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
> was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
> Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
> consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
> That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
> I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
> would I?
>
> So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
> from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
> EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
> at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
> able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
> bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
> one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
> EFX.
>
> Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
> rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
> with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
> balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
> at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
> flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
> inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
> it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
> time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
> thinking about going this route.
>
> Neil
Hi Neil,
Sorry this didn't suit your needs. My whole concept of this was quite a bit
different from yours I think I've been burning in my system on the new Magma
today and now that the STDM cable length has been reduced drastically and I
configured the system to where the card with the *least* DSP was the first
card in the system, the available DSP resource allocation has stabilized and
has increased pretty dramatically. Like any system, tweaking and
expermentation pays off. My system has 2 x Pulsar II's and a Pulsar Luna
with the ADAT plate and the mix matrix I'm using is massive...48 ASIO outs,
STDM 4896 mixer, 8 x ASIO outputs, 40 DI outs to ADAT outputs and another 16
ADAT I'O configured to work with the RME ADI4 DD and 4 x Paris stereo aux
busses. I've got a few compressors and eq's on individual channels as well.
this works for me and looks promising for future experimentations using the
Scope system as a summing environment rather than Paris. Like you, this was
my ultimate goal,but it's something I'm going to have to take slowly as I
learn the system. There's a lot to learn. It's much like Paris in many ways.
I'm still loving what it does here.
Regards,
Deej
it's still functioning like a champ.
Anyway, I've got 21 DSP's between my 3 x cards here and life is even better
than it was before I got this 2nd Magma but I'll chime in here and agree
with you that more DSP is a good thing with this system, expecially if
you're just going with one card.
Deej
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76555 is a reply to message #76543] |
Fri, 01 December 2006 01:30 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
you belong on the show heros. good to hear it's coming together for
you.
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:21:45 -0700, "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:456eea10$1@linux...
>>
>> OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
>> was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
>> Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
>> consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
>> That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
>> I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
>> would I?
>>
>> So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
>> from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
>> EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
>> at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
>> able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
>> bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
>> one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
>> EFX.
>>
>> Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
>> rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
>> with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
>> balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
>> at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
>> flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
>> inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
>> it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
>> time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
>> thinking about going this route.
>>
>> Neil
>
>Hi Neil,
>
>Sorry this didn't suit your needs. My whole concept of this was quite a bit
>different from yours I think I've been burning in my system on the new Magma
>today and now that the STDM cable length has been reduced drastically and I
>configured the system to where the card with the *least* DSP was the first
>card in the system, the available DSP resource allocation has stabilized and
>has increased pretty dramatically. Like any system, tweaking and
>expermentation pays off. My system has 2 x Pulsar II's and a Pulsar Luna
>with the ADAT plate and the mix matrix I'm using is massive...48 ASIO outs,
>STDM 4896 mixer, 8 x ASIO outputs, 40 DI outs to ADAT outputs and another 16
>ADAT I'O configured to work with the RME ADI4 DD and 4 x Paris stereo aux
>busses. I've got a few compressors and eq's on individual channels as well.
>this works for me and looks promising for future experimentations using the
>Scope system as a summing environment rather than Paris. Like you, this was
>my ultimate goal,but it's something I'm going to have to take slowly as I
>learn the system. There's a lot to learn. It's much like Paris in many ways.
>I'm still loving what it does here.
>
>Regards,
>
>Deej
>
> it's still functioning like a champ.
>
>Anyway, I've got 21 DSP's between my 3 x cards here and life is even better
>than it was before I got this 2nd Magma but I'll chime in here and agree
>with you that more DSP is a good thing with this system, expecially if
>you're just going with one card.
>
>Deej
>
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76563 is a reply to message #76555] |
Fri, 01 December 2006 08:36 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm going to give the Pulsar thing one more shot, but with a
lower-end card (the Project Card - the $750-ish one, plus a Sync
Plate so I can get it to properly do 88.2k); I certainly didn't
need all the DSP (and subsequent additional expense) of the big
card if I couldn't use it for summing AND plugins at the same
time, so I'm going to try the Project Card & use it JUST for
summing... we'll see how that goes. I'll post a clip of the same
section of that one song I did summing comparison files for
already, so now we'll all have comparisons of an identical mix
summed in:
a.) Straight Native 2-buss, ITB
b.) Native "Stems" Mix
c.) Mixed in Native, Summed in Paris
d.) Mixed in Native, Summed in Pulsar
e.) Maybe also a "Stemmed in Native, Summed in Paris" version,
as well.
It'll probably be a week or so before the card gets here & I
have a chance to get it installed and up & running...
....the search for the grail continues LOL
Neil
rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>you belong on the show heros. good to hear it's coming together for
>you.
>
>On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:21:45 -0700, "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:456eea10$1@linux...
>>>
>>> OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
>>> was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
>>> Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
>>> consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
>>> That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
>>> I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
>>> would I?
>>>
>>> So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
>>> from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
>>> EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
>>> at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
>>> able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
>>> bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
>>> one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
>>> EFX.
>>>
>>> Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
>>> rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
>>> with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
>>> balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
>>> at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
>>> flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
>>> inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
>>> it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
>>> time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
>>> thinking about going this route.
>>>
>>> Neil
>>
>>Hi Neil,
>>
>>Sorry this didn't suit your needs. My whole concept of this was quite a
bit
>>different from yours I think I've been burning in my system on the new
Magma
>>today and now that the STDM cable length has been reduced drastically and
I
>>configured the system to where the card with the *least* DSP was the first
>>card in the system, the available DSP resource allocation has stabilized
and
>>has increased pretty dramatically. Like any system, tweaking and
>>expermentation pays off. My system has 2 x Pulsar II's and a Pulsar Luna
>>with the ADAT plate and the mix matrix I'm using is massive...48 ASIO outs,
>>STDM 4896 mixer, 8 x ASIO outputs, 40 DI outs to ADAT outputs and another
16
>>ADAT I'O configured to work with the RME ADI4 DD and 4 x Paris stereo aux
>>busses. I've got a few compressors and eq's on individual channels as well.
>>this works for me and looks promising for future experimentations using
the
>>Scope system as a summing environment rather than Paris. Like you, this
was
>>my ultimate goal,but it's something I'm going to have to take slowly as
I
>>learn the system. There's a lot to learn. It's much like Paris in many
ways.
>>I'm still loving what it does here.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Deej
>>
>> it's still functioning like a champ.
>>
>>Anyway, I've got 21 DSP's between my 3 x cards here and life is even better
>>than it was before I got this 2nd Magma but I'll chime in here and agree
>>with you that more DSP is a good thing with this system, expecially if
>>you're just going with one card.
>>
>>Deej
>>
>
|
|
|
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| Re: More Pulsar info (for those that are considering this option) [message #76568 is a reply to message #76563] |
Fri, 01 December 2006 10:02 |
DJ
Messages: 1124
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rawk on Neil ;o) I just scored a quad Colorgraphics Xentera AGP (4 head)
card *really* cheap. It's got an ATI chipset so I'm not really sure how this
is going to work with the NForce 3 mobo that I will be building for my
experimental dualcore Paris rig, but I'm going to give it a try. I've always
wanted to try one of these but the $500.00 price tag and the lack of any
rave reviews from DAW users gave me pause. If this one doesn't work, I can
always use it in an office machine or sell it and get my money back. It
would be very cool if we can get a Paris system running that has enough
go-power to run native apps and UAD-1 plugins in parallel on the same box
(if the IRQ's can be managed). What I'm hoping to achieve here is 4 x EDS
cards, 4 x UAD-1 cards and possibly an RME Multiface all running on a single
computer with a major amount of horsepower but that can be built relatively
cheaply (well.........*relativly cheaply* will have to include Magma('s) to
hold all of the EDS and UAD-1 cards but used ones are relatively cheap these
days).
;o)
Deej
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:45704be2$1@linux...
>
> I'm going to give the Pulsar thing one more shot, but with a
> lower-end card (the Project Card - the $750-ish one, plus a Sync
> Plate so I can get it to properly do 88.2k); I certainly didn't
> need all the DSP (and subsequent additional expense) of the big
> card if I couldn't use it for summing AND plugins at the same
> time, so I'm going to try the Project Card & use it JUST for
> summing... we'll see how that goes. I'll post a clip of the same
> section of that one song I did summing comparison files for
> already, so now we'll all have comparisons of an identical mix
> summed in:
>
> a.) Straight Native 2-buss, ITB
> b.) Native "Stems" Mix
> c.) Mixed in Native, Summed in Paris
> d.) Mixed in Native, Summed in Pulsar
> e.) Maybe also a "Stemmed in Native, Summed in Paris" version,
> as well.
>
> It'll probably be a week or so before the card gets here & I
> have a chance to get it installed and up & running...
>
> ...the search for the grail continues LOL
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>you belong on the show heros. good to hear it's coming together for
>>you.
>>
>>On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:21:45 -0700, "DJ" <nowayjose@dude.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:456eea10$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> OK, so you guys know that I sent back the Pulsar Pro card... it
>>>> was not able to do what I was hoping it would do; but since
>>>> Deej is raving about his Pulsar gear so much, I thought I would
>>>> consider one more option - what if I used it JUST for summing?
>>>> That would still give me a single-PC one-box solution, and
>>>> I certainly wouldn't need the big ($1,400+) card for that,
>>>> would I?
>>>>
>>>> So I e-mailed Gary (the guy that Deej & I both got our cards
>>>> from) and asked him: "What if I used it for summing ONLY, no
>>>> EFX... how many channels would the 'Home' card allow me to sum
>>>> at 88.2k?" He answered back that it would most likely NOT be
>>>> able to sum the 40+ tracks that I would be needing for the
>>>> bigger projects - I would need the Project card (the $750-ish
>>>> one) to do this, even if I were using it for summing only, no
>>>> EFX.
>>>>
>>>> Which means that even if you're working at lower sample
>>>> rates than I, and you are thinking about doing big projects
>>>> with this stuff, the "Home" card will likely not have the DSP
>>>> balls to sum a lot of tracks and do more than a couple EFX even
>>>> at 44.1 or 48k (remember, with the "Pro" card, I got the white
>>>> flag of DSP surrender summing 40 or so tracks and after
>>>> inserting only 3 EFX, and that sucker has 14 DSP chips on
>>>> it!!!). So anyway - just an FYI so that you don't waste your
>>>> time & $$$ on a smaller card than you really need if you're
>>>> thinking about going this route.
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>
>>>Hi Neil,
>>>
>>>Sorry this didn't suit your needs. My whole concept of this was quite a
> bit
>>>different from yours I think I've been burning in my system on the new
> Magma
>>>today and now that the STDM cable length has been reduced drastically and
> I
>>>configured the system to where the card with the *least* DSP was the
>>>first
>
>>>card in the system, the available DSP resource allocation has stabilized
> and
>>>has increased pretty dramatically. Like any system, tweaking and
>>>expermentation pays off. My system has 2 x Pulsar II's and a Pulsar Luna
>
>>>with the ADAT plate and the mix matrix I'm using is massive...48 ASIO
>>>outs,
>
>>>STDM 4896 mixer, 8 x ASIO outputs, 40 DI outs to ADAT outputs and another
> 16
>>>ADAT I'O configured to work with the RME ADI4 DD and 4 x Paris stereo aux
>
>>>busses. I've got a few compressors and eq's on individual channels as
>>>well.
>
>>>this works for me and looks promising for future experimentations using
> the
>>>Scope system as a summing environment rather than Paris. Like you, this
> was
>>>my ultimate goal,but it's something I'm going to have to take slowly as
> I
>>>learn the system. There's a lot to learn. It's much like Paris in many
> ways.
>>>I'm still loving what it does here.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>> it's still functioning like a champ.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I've got 21 DSP's between my 3 x cards here and life is even
>>>better
>
>>>than it was before I got this 2nd Magma but I'll chime in here and agree
>
>>>with you that more DSP is a good thing with this system, expecially if
>
>>>you're just going with one card.
>>>
>>>Deej
>>>
>>
>
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