Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » A Decent Ftont End Mixer or?
| A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94235] |
Tue, 01 January 2008 10:39  |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
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Senior Member |
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Hey everyone... Happy New Year 2008!!!
I need some help, advice or maybe even some constructive critism. Perhaps
some of you may recall I had a post a few months ago about the Behringer
SL mixer... I wasn't getting very good levels out of the 4 channel groups
no matter what I tried. I have been messing with it and another Behringer
16 channel mixer with direct outs. I am so fed-up and frustrated and I am
not sure what else to do.
First, I use to do all my recordings directly into my Paris 8-ins from the
preamps, GNX for electric, Keyboards directly too. I never had a issue getting
good levels.
I am trying to setup my studio to where I can play and record through a mixer
or something...
Can some of you recommend a good way to get better levels through my Behringer
SL mixer or maybe recommend some good front-end that won't bust the bank.
Is there even such a thing out there? Maybe it is because the Behringer
suks, I don't know and haven't tried anything else. When I purchased the
mixer, I read decent reviews. I read alot of bad things about the Mackie
and Yamaha that are 24 channel or more. I certainly couldn't afford a Neve
board or something that expensive. But is there something out there that
is a few hundred and works good for a front end? Everything I am seeing
in the music stores (online) are typical mixer... I prefer direct outs if
possible... since I record all instruments (not at the same time)
Any help, suggestions or advice? Thanks and Happy New Year!
~ Ed
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94244 is a reply to message #94235] |
Tue, 01 January 2008 16:19  |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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On 2/1/08 5:39 AM, in article 477a7ac3$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
wrote:
>
> Hey everyone... Happy New Year 2008!!!
>
> I need some help, advice or maybe even some constructive critism. Perhaps
> some of you may recall I had a post a few months ago about the Behringer
> SL mixer... I wasn't getting very good levels out of the 4 channel groups
> no matter what I tried. I have been messing with it and another Behringer
> 16 channel mixer with direct outs. I am so fed-up and frustrated and I am
> not sure what else to do.
>
> First, I use to do all my recordings directly into my Paris 8-ins from the
> preamps, GNX for electric, Keyboards directly too. I never had a issue
> getting
> good levels.
>
> I am trying to setup my studio to where I can play and record through a mixer
> or something...
>
> Can some of you recommend a good way to get better levels through my Behringer
> SL mixer or maybe recommend some good front-end that won't bust the bank.
> Is there even such a thing out there? Maybe it is because the Behringer
> suks, I don't know and haven't tried anything else. When I purchased the
> mixer, I read decent reviews. I read alot of bad things about the Mackie
> and Yamaha that are 24 channel or more. I certainly couldn't afford a Neve
> board or something that expensive. But is there something out there that
> is a few hundred and works good for a front end? Everything I am seeing
> in the music stores (online) are typical mixer... I prefer direct outs if
> possible... since I record all instruments (not at the same time)
>
> Any help, suggestions or advice? Thanks and Happy New Year!
>
> ~ Ed
>
Happy New Year to you too.
The behringer should work...I've got one that I use occasionally when
clients want me to record to a couple of cameras and do a PA mix at the same
time..(XENYX 1222FX).
Very quiet and enough level to go to cameras at -20 dbfs.
Failing that..look on the web for an Alesis Studio 32... 16 direct outs and
heaps of routing options.
I have one, although I'm now using my M-Audio Mix Control, but it was
floorless whist I was using it, (over 5 years).
Martin
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94251 is a reply to message #94235] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 05:11 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hey Ed and Happy New Year to you too!
Sorry to hear about your levelproblems with the SL mixer.
In the first Paris years I used an Alesis Studio 32 with 16 direct
outs, as Martin talked about. Used it for some years but it began to
be more and more faulty on some of the channels. So I went the
Behringer wagon and get an MX3224X and an UB2442FX-Pro. Have used them
for years now with my two Parissystems without problems. One of the
systems are mobile and is using the UB mixer to feed 8 direct outs to
a Paris 8-ins card. For me, the headroom is good enough for most of my
recordings when travelling with it. But the MX3224X is one of the
best, if not the best in it's class. The exstra big external power
(150 watts/ 7kg) supply is built for extreme uses and have headroom
enough to most jobs. 16 direct outs, inserts on each channel, 4 groups
outs, in line system etc.
http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng
After looking at the specifications on the different Behringer mixers,
I see that max input level is the same on these kind of mixers. Max
output are from +22dBu to +28dBu, where Xenyx, MX and SL have +28, so
maybe your problem isn't the mixer at all but the Paris 8-ins card?
Are you sure it's calibrated correct to work optimal? On the back of
it, you can calibrate it with a little shrewdriver. I know there have
been written here about how to do this correct but I can't find the
papers here. Maybe some other have them yet, so you can try it out.
Erling
On 2 Jan 2008 04:39:15 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>Hey everyone... Happy New Year 2008!!!
>
>I need some help, advice or maybe even some constructive critism. Perhaps
>some of you may recall I had a post a few months ago about the Behringer
>SL mixer... I wasn't getting very good levels out of the 4 channel groups
>no matter what I tried. I have been messing with it and another Behringer
>16 channel mixer with direct outs. I am so fed-up and frustrated and I am
>not sure what else to do.
>
>First, I use to do all my recordings directly into my Paris 8-ins from the
>preamps, GNX for electric, Keyboards directly too. I never had a issue getting
>good levels.
>
>I am trying to setup my studio to where I can play and record through a mixer
>or something...
>
>Can some of you recommend a good way to get better levels through my Behringer
>SL mixer or maybe recommend some good front-end that won't bust the bank.
> Is there even such a thing out there? Maybe it is because the Behringer
>suks, I don't know and haven't tried anything else. When I purchased the
>mixer, I read decent reviews. I read alot of bad things about the Mackie
>and Yamaha that are 24 channel or more. I certainly couldn't afford a Neve
>board or something that expensive. But is there something out there that
>is a few hundred and works good for a front end? Everything I am seeing
>in the music stores (online) are typical mixer... I prefer direct outs if
>possible... since I record all instruments (not at the same time)
>
>Any help, suggestions or advice? Thanks and Happy New Year!
>
>~ Ed
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94252 is a reply to message #94244] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 07:27 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Martin and thanks for your response... That Alesis Studio 32 Mixer sounds
like what I am looking for. Guess they don't make them anymore and will
have to seek a used one... The price tag of that M-Audio Mix Control is
a bit above what I want to spend.
I honestly tried everything possible to get good levels through my Behringer
mixers... and I can't. I end having to pull up the .paf in CoolEdit and
increase it by 3 to 6 dbs on any track recording. In the monitor of the
mixer, the instrument or vox is clear, clean and loud, but when it get to
Paris, it is too low. If I decrease the monitor of Paris, then dubbing is
impossible cause I can't hear nothing but the current take. If you know
what I mean. Again, thanks for your advice....
~ Ed
Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>On 2/1/08 5:39 AM, in article 477a7ac3$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>Happy New Year to you too.
>The behringer should work...I've got one that I use occasionally when
>clients want me to record to a couple of cameras and do a PA mix at the
same
>time..(XENYX 1222FX).
>Very quiet and enough level to go to cameras at -20 dbfs.
>Failing that..look on the web for an Alesis Studio 32... 16 direct outs
and
>heaps of routing options.
>I have one, although I'm now using my M-Audio Mix Control, but it was
>floorless whist I was using it, (over 5 years).
>
>Martin
>
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94253 is a reply to message #94251] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 07:59 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Erling,
Interesting you mentioned about the calibration. I will have to look into
that... and perhaps that is where my problem lies. As I stated, when I go
directly into the 8-ins from the preamp or DI or whatever, I have no problems
getting levels. But when I feed through the Behringer mixers, the wet channels
are not hot enough, although in the monitor of the mixer, it is over powering.
I know that I may not be explaining it very well... but that is what seems
to be happening. I have switched the 8-in cards to Pro, instead of Semi-Pro.
That helped a little, but not enough.
Another way to think of this is... Say my vox is on mixer channel 1 (to
be recorded) and is fed thru the Direct Out to Channel 1 on the 8-in. And
say channels 5 thru 16 have guitars, drums, keyboards and backup/harmony
vox. And this is a rock song, so it isn't soft. I have the Paris main/monitor
outs fed to the mixer channel 25 and 26 for playback/monitor... If I turn
up my vox to slightly over power the monitor (and is almost max w/o distortion),
it is ok in the mix, but not in the recorded levels. So remember, what is
going out the Direct Out is controlled on mixer channel 1. This has been
my dilemma for months...
erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>Hey Ed and Happy New Year to you too!
>
>Sorry to hear about your levelproblems with the SL mixer.
>
>In the first Paris years I used an Alesis Studio 32 with 16 direct
>outs, as Martin talked about. Used it for some years but it began to
>be more and more faulty on some of the channels. So I went the
>Behringer wagon and get an MX3224X and an UB2442FX-Pro. Have used them
>for years now with my two Parissystems without problems. One of the
>systems are mobile and is using the UB mixer to feed 8 direct outs to
>a Paris 8-ins card. For me, the headroom is good enough for most of my
>recordings when travelling with it. But the MX3224X is one of the
>best, if not the best in it's class. The exstra big external power
>(150 watts/ 7kg) supply is built for extreme uses and have headroom
>enough to most jobs. 16 direct outs, inserts on each channel, 4 groups
>outs, in line system etc.
>http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng
>
>After looking at the specifications on the different Behringer mixers,
>I see that max input level is the same on these kind of mixers. Max
>output are from +22dBu to +28dBu, where Xenyx, MX and SL have +28, so
>maybe your problem isn't the mixer at all but the Paris 8-ins card?
>Are you sure it's calibrated correct to work optimal? On the back of
>it, you can calibrate it with a little shrewdriver. I know there have
>been written here about how to do this correct but I can't find the
>papers here. Maybe some other have them yet, so you can try it out.
>
>Erling
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94259 is a reply to message #94253] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 09:13 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi again Ed,
You see, I don't have these problems at all with any of my Behringer
mixers. I am allways trimming the gain control at the top of the mixer
to feed the fader with enough sound at about 0dB and I can see the red
lights going on and off on the Paris 8in cards when the signal peaks
at top. For me, the level peak metering on the Behringers are nearly
allways working in the yellow area, not the green; and right before
clipping red.
By the way, I've found the manuals for the Paris 8in/outs cards. If
you need them I'll send them to you.
Good luck
Erling
On 3 Jan 2008 01:59:34 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Erling,
>
> Interesting you mentioned about the calibration. I will have to look into
>that... and perhaps that is where my problem lies. As I stated, when I go
>directly into the 8-ins from the preamp or DI or whatever, I have no problems
>getting levels. But when I feed through the Behringer mixers, the wet channels
>are not hot enough, although in the monitor of the mixer, it is over powering.
> I know that I may not be explaining it very well... but that is what seems
>to be happening. I have switched the 8-in cards to Pro, instead of Semi-Pro.
> That helped a little, but not enough.
>
>Another way to think of this is... Say my vox is on mixer channel 1 (to
>be recorded) and is fed thru the Direct Out to Channel 1 on the 8-in. And
>say channels 5 thru 16 have guitars, drums, keyboards and backup/harmony
>vox. And this is a rock song, so it isn't soft. I have the Paris main/monitor
>outs fed to the mixer channel 25 and 26 for playback/monitor... If I turn
>up my vox to slightly over power the monitor (and is almost max w/o distortion),
>it is ok in the mix, but not in the recorded levels. So remember, what is
>going out the Direct Out is controlled on mixer channel 1. This has been
>my dilemma for months...
>
>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>Hey Ed and Happy New Year to you too!
>>
>>Sorry to hear about your levelproblems with the SL mixer.
>>
>>In the first Paris years I used an Alesis Studio 32 with 16 direct
>>outs, as Martin talked about. Used it for some years but it began to
>>be more and more faulty on some of the channels. So I went the
>>Behringer wagon and get an MX3224X and an UB2442FX-Pro. Have used them
>>for years now with my two Parissystems without problems. One of the
>>systems are mobile and is using the UB mixer to feed 8 direct outs to
>>a Paris 8-ins card. For me, the headroom is good enough for most of my
>>recordings when travelling with it. But the MX3224X is one of the
>>best, if not the best in it's class. The exstra big external power
>>(150 watts/ 7kg) supply is built for extreme uses and have headroom
>>enough to most jobs. 16 direct outs, inserts on each channel, 4 groups
>>outs, in line system etc.
>>http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng
>>
>>After looking at the specifications on the different Behringer mixers,
>>I see that max input level is the same on these kind of mixers. Max
>>output are from +22dBu to +28dBu, where Xenyx, MX and SL have +28, so
>>maybe your problem isn't the mixer at all but the Paris 8-ins card?
>>Are you sure it's calibrated correct to work optimal? On the back of
>>it, you can calibrate it with a little shrewdriver. I know there have
>>been written here about how to do this correct but I can't find the
>>papers here. Maybe some other have them yet, so you can try it out.
>>
>>Erling
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94274 is a reply to message #94252] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 14:25 |
Martin Harrington
Messages: 560
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On 3/1/08 2:27 AM, in article 477b9f5b$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
wrote:
>
> Hi Martin and thanks for your response... That Alesis Studio 32 Mixer sounds
> like what I am looking for. Guess they don't make them anymore and will
> have to seek a used one... The price tag of that M-Audio Mix Control is
> a bit above what I want to spend.
>
> I honestly tried everything possible to get good levels through my Behringer
> mixers... and I can't. I end having to pull up the .paf in CoolEdit and
> increase it by 3 to 6 dbs on any track recording. In the monitor of the
> mixer, the instrument or vox is clear, clean and loud, but when it get to
> Paris, it is too low. If I decrease the monitor of Paris, then dubbing is
> impossible cause I can't hear nothing but the current take. If you know
> what I mean. Again, thanks for your advice....
>
> ~ Ed
>
>
> Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> On 2/1/08 5:39 AM, in article 477a7ac3$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>> Happy New Year to you too.
>> The behringer should work...I've got one that I use occasionally when
>> clients want me to record to a couple of cameras and do a PA mix at the
> same
>> time..(XENYX 1222FX).
>> Very quiet and enough level to go to cameras at -20 dbfs.
>> Failing that..look on the web for an Alesis Studio 32... 16 direct outs
> and
>> heaps of routing options.
>> I have one, although I'm now using my M-Audio Mix Control, but it was
>> floorless whist I was using it, (over 5 years).
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
I know this a basic (obvious), question, but do you have the Paris inputs
set to -10 ?
Had to ask...
And.... Are you putting enough level into each of the Behringer inputs?
Martin
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94282 is a reply to message #94259] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 17:32 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Erlilo,
Thanks so much for your help. I acquired the 8-in manual from the parisfaqs.com
website. I knew about the adjustment screw but I never messed with them.
I suppose I will have to look at these adjustments and try that. What worries
me is that I have absolutely great levels when I send preamps or what-not
directly into the 8-in card. I don't understand why I am losing so much
beef going through the mixer... and the levels sound very hot in the mixer,
but if I trigger a channel to record, it barely moves. If adjusting the
screws gets me going with the mixer, then I'll be happy.. ummm. for now...
.lol Thanks again... ~ Ed
erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>Hi again Ed,
>
>You see, I don't have these problems at all with any of my Behringer
>mixers. I am allways trimming the gain control at the top of the mixer
>to feed the fader with enough sound at about 0dB and I can see the red
>lights going on and off on the Paris 8in cards when the signal peaks
>at top. For me, the level peak metering on the Behringers are nearly
>allways working in the yellow area, not the green; and right before
>clipping red.
>By the way, I've found the manuals for the Paris 8in/outs cards. If
>you need them I'll send them to you.
>
>Good luck
>
>Erling
>
>On 3 Jan 2008 01:59:34 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Erling,
>>
>> Interesting you mentioned about the calibration. I will have to look
into
>>that... and perhaps that is where my problem lies. As I stated, when I
go
>>directly into the 8-ins from the preamp or DI or whatever, I have no problems
>>getting levels. But when I feed through the Behringer mixers, the wet
channels
>>are not hot enough, although in the monitor of the mixer, it is over powering.
>> I know that I may not be explaining it very well... but that is what seems
>>to be happening. I have switched the 8-in cards to Pro, instead of Semi-Pro.
>> That helped a little, but not enough.
>>
>>Another way to think of this is... Say my vox is on mixer channel 1 (to
>>be recorded) and is fed thru the Direct Out to Channel 1 on the 8-in.
And
>>say channels 5 thru 16 have guitars, drums, keyboards and backup/harmony
>>vox. And this is a rock song, so it isn't soft. I have the Paris main/monitor
>>outs fed to the mixer channel 25 and 26 for playback/monitor... If I turn
>>up my vox to slightly over power the monitor (and is almost max w/o distortion),
>>it is ok in the mix, but not in the recorded levels. So remember, what
is
>>going out the Direct Out is controlled on mixer channel 1. This has been
>>my dilemma for months...
>>
>>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>>Hey Ed and Happy New Year to you too!
>>>
>>>Sorry to hear about your levelproblems with the SL mixer.
>>>
>>>In the first Paris years I used an Alesis Studio 32 with 16 direct
>>>outs, as Martin talked about. Used it for some years but it began to
>>>be more and more faulty on some of the channels. So I went the
>>>Behringer wagon and get an MX3224X and an UB2442FX-Pro. Have used them
>>>for years now with my two Parissystems without problems. One of the
>>>systems are mobile and is using the UB mixer to feed 8 direct outs to
>>>a Paris 8-ins card. For me, the headroom is good enough for most of my
>>>recordings when travelling with it. But the MX3224X is one of the
>>>best, if not the best in it's class. The exstra big external power
>>>(150 watts/ 7kg) supply is built for extreme uses and have headroom
>>>enough to most jobs. 16 direct outs, inserts on each channel, 4 groups
>>>outs, in line system etc.
>>>http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng
>>>
>>>After looking at the specifications on the different Behringer mixers,
>>>I see that max input level is the same on these kind of mixers. Max
>>>output are from +22dBu to +28dBu, where Xenyx, MX and SL have +28, so
>>>maybe your problem isn't the mixer at all but the Paris 8-ins card?
>>>Are you sure it's calibrated correct to work optimal? On the back of
>>>it, you can calibrate it with a little shrewdriver. I know there have
>>>been written here about how to do this correct but I can't find the
>>>papers here. Maybe some other have them yet, so you can try it out.
>>>
>>>Erling
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94297 is a reply to message #94252] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 21:52 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ed, have you tried adjusting the input trims to match better the signal
hitting the A to D's in Paris?
AA
"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote in message news:477b9f5b$1@linux...
>
> Hi Martin and thanks for your response... That Alesis Studio 32 Mixer
> sounds
> like what I am looking for. Guess they don't make them anymore and will
> have to seek a used one... The price tag of that M-Audio Mix Control is
> a bit above what I want to spend.
>
> I honestly tried everything possible to get good levels through my
> Behringer
> mixers... and I can't. I end having to pull up the .paf in CoolEdit and
> increase it by 3 to 6 dbs on any track recording. In the monitor of the
> mixer, the instrument or vox is clear, clean and loud, but when it get to
> Paris, it is too low. If I decrease the monitor of Paris, then dubbing is
> impossible cause I can't hear nothing but the current take. If you know
> what I mean. Again, thanks for your advice....
>
> ~ Ed
>
>
> Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>On 2/1/08 5:39 AM, in article 477a7ac3$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>Happy New Year to you too.
>>The behringer should work...I've got one that I use occasionally when
>>clients want me to record to a couple of cameras and do a PA mix at the
> same
>>time..(XENYX 1222FX).
>>Very quiet and enough level to go to cameras at -20 dbfs.
>>Failing that..look on the web for an Alesis Studio 32... 16 direct outs
> and
>>heaps of routing options.
>>I have one, although I'm now using my M-Audio Mix Control, but it was
>>floorless whist I was using it, (over 5 years).
>>
>>Martin
>>
>
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| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94305 is a reply to message #94282] |
Thu, 03 January 2008 02:46 |
Erling
Messages: 156
Registered: October 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ed,
Remember the meters on the Behringers are showing peak signals and is
not working like "old" VUmeters, that's showing the average.
Be sure to have the start of the sliders up to 0 on Subgroups that is
feeding Paris.
Be sure to set the trim control for each inchannel so high that the
clip led on the channels are peaking, then set the trim control a
little bit back so you get max signal before peaking.
Have PFL listening on when soloing a channel to control how high the
Power Led is showing on the channel. Only the left signal will show up
in the Power Led when PFL. Be sure it's lighting nearly all the way up
before peaking.
If the Peak is coming on, back of a little bit on the trim control for
that inchannel and you're ready to record.
Be sure to look at the Paris 8in card, to see how the red peaklight
are reacting.
After recording, control how high the peak on the recorded
Parischannel have been to see how it's reacting.
If the recordings yet is low, see if you have set the Paris 8in cards
to -10dB.
Since your subgroup outs are unbalanced, -10dB are often the most
correct to use. Test a ready to record signal in headphones when
flipping between -10 and +4 on that Parischannel and you can hear at
once wich have the highest signal.
Professional balanced outs shall for the most have a +4dB signal.
If there's still problems, try adjusting the screws on the 8in card to
get it hotter.
I see you have CoolEditPro. It can be a good idea to generate a 440 or
1000 hz -10dB testtone recorded in CoolEdit and import it to Paris,
to control that the outs of Paris is showing up correct at -10dB.
If you have a tone generator, you can test a -10 or 0 dB signal sent
from Behringer to be recorded in Paris, to find out how things are
reacting.
Hope there's something here to use for you.
Erling
On 3 Jan 2008 11:32:47 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Erlilo,
>
> Thanks so much for your help. I acquired the 8-in manual from the parisfaqs.com
>website. I knew about the adjustment screw but I never messed with them.
> I suppose I will have to look at these adjustments and try that. What worries
>me is that I have absolutely great levels when I send preamps or what-not
>directly into the 8-in card. I don't understand why I am losing so much
>beef going through the mixer... and the levels sound very hot in the mixer,
>but if I trigger a channel to record, it barely moves. If adjusting the
>screws gets me going with the mixer, then I'll be happy.. ummm. for now...
>lol Thanks again... ~ Ed
>
>
>
>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>Hi again Ed,
>>
>>You see, I don't have these problems at all with any of my Behringer
>>mixers. I am allways trimming the gain control at the top of the mixer
>>to feed the fader with enough sound at about 0dB and I can see the red
>>lights going on and off on the Paris 8in cards when the signal peaks
>>at top. For me, the level peak metering on the Behringers are nearly
>>allways working in the yellow area, not the green; and right before
>>clipping red.
>>By the way, I've found the manuals for the Paris 8in/outs cards. If
>>you need them I'll send them to you.
>>
>>Good luck
>>
>>Erling
>>
>>On 3 Jan 2008 01:59:34 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Hi Erling,
>>>
>>> Interesting you mentioned about the calibration. I will have to look
>into
>>>that... and perhaps that is where my problem lies. As I stated, when I
>go
>>>directly into the 8-ins from the preamp or DI or whatever, I have no problems
>>>getting levels. But when I feed through the Behringer mixers, the wet
>channels
>>>are not hot enough, although in the monitor of the mixer, it is over powering.
>>> I know that I may not be explaining it very well... but that is what seems
>>>to be happening. I have switched the 8-in cards to Pro, instead of Semi-Pro.
>>> That helped a little, but not enough.
>>>
>>>Another way to think of this is... Say my vox is on mixer channel 1 (to
>>>be recorded) and is fed thru the Direct Out to Channel 1 on the 8-in.
>And
>>>say channels 5 thru 16 have guitars, drums, keyboards and backup/harmony
>>>vox. And this is a rock song, so it isn't soft. I have the Paris main/monitor
>>>outs fed to the mixer channel 25 and 26 for playback/monitor... If I turn
>>>up my vox to slightly over power the monitor (and is almost max w/o distortion),
>>>it is ok in the mix, but not in the recorded levels. So remember, what
>is
>>>going out the Direct Out is controlled on mixer channel 1. This has been
>>>my dilemma for months...
>>>
>>>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>>>Hey Ed and Happy New Year to you too!
>>>>
>>>>Sorry to hear about your levelproblems with the SL mixer.
>>>>
>>>>In the first Paris years I used an Alesis Studio 32 with 16 direct
>>>>outs, as Martin talked about. Used it for some years but it began to
>>>>be more and more faulty on some of the channels. So I went the
>>>>Behringer wagon and get an MX3224X and an UB2442FX-Pro. Have used them
>>>>for years now with my two Parissystems without problems. One of the
>>>>systems are mobile and is using the UB mixer to feed 8 direct outs to
>>>>a Paris 8-ins card. For me, the headroom is good enough for most of my
>>>>recordings when travelling with it. But the MX3224X is one of the
>>>>best, if not the best in it's class. The exstra big external power
>>>>(150 watts/ 7kg) supply is built for extreme uses and have headroom
>>>>enough to most jobs. 16 direct outs, inserts on each channel, 4 groups
>>>>outs, in line system etc.
>>>>http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng
>>>>
>>>>After looking at the specifications on the different Behringer mixers,
>>>>I see that max input level is the same on these kind of mixers. Max
>>>>output are from +22dBu to +28dBu, where Xenyx, MX and SL have +28, so
>>>>maybe your problem isn't the mixer at all but the Paris 8-ins card?
>>>>Are you sure it's calibrated correct to work optimal? On the back of
>>>>it, you can calibrate it with a little shrewdriver. I know there have
>>>>been written here about how to do this correct but I can't find the
>>>>papers here. Maybe some other have them yet, so you can try it out.
>>>>
>>>>Erling
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94306 is a reply to message #94297] |
Thu, 03 January 2008 05:06 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Aaron,
Yes, I am gonna look into that. What worries me (as I posted earlier)
is that I am getting hot/decent signals coming from my components (preamps,
guitars, keyboards, etc.) and I couldn't ask for better levels... BUT! when
I go through the Behringer mixers (either a SL or the MX) I lose levels big
time! Although in the mix of the mixer, it is hot or loud. Now you wouldn't
think of this as a serious issue except when you get a few loud tracks on
playback. I can adjust the level of the playback tracks, but the recording
channel/track is up as high as it can go without distorting and in Paris,
it is pathetic. The SL has the 4 groups and the MX has direct outs. My
main point is that I am losing levels going through the mixer. So I don't
think the main issue is the Paris cards... I know not everyone is familiar
with the Behringer SL and MX mixers... but I thought maybe it is the mixer
and I was looking for something more of a front-end. A few suggested the
Alesis Studio 32. After researching that item, I am reluctant to mess with
it. Not only is it discontinued, I read tons of reviews/feedbacks from folks
that have serious issues with this product. Mainly the channels going out.
Oh well, I'll keep playing with it... I am not pressed for time, but sure
am losing alot of sleep over this... tossing and turning, thinking what else
can I try to get this right. lol.
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>Ed, have you tried adjusting the input trims to match better the signal
>hitting the A to D's in Paris?
>
>AA
>
>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote in message news:477b9f5b$1@linux...
>>
>> Hi Martin and thanks for your response... That Alesis Studio 32 Mixer
>> sounds
>> like what I am looking for. Guess they don't make them anymore and will
>> have to seek a used one... The price tag of that M-Audio Mix Control
is
>> a bit above what I want to spend.
>>
>> I honestly tried everything possible to get good levels through my
>> Behringer
>> mixers... and I can't. I end having to pull up the .paf in CoolEdit and
>> increase it by 3 to 6 dbs on any track recording. In the monitor of the
>> mixer, the instrument or vox is clear, clean and loud, but when it get
to
>> Paris, it is too low. If I decrease the monitor of Paris, then dubbing
is
>> impossible cause I can't hear nothing but the current take. If you know
>> what I mean. Again, thanks for your advice....
>>
>> ~ Ed
>>
>>
>> Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>On 2/1/08 5:39 AM, in article 477a7ac3$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>Happy New Year to you too.
>>>The behringer should work...I've got one that I use occasionally when
>>>clients want me to record to a couple of cameras and do a PA mix at the
>> same
>>>time..(XENYX 1222FX).
>>>Very quiet and enough level to go to cameras at -20 dbfs.
>>>Failing that..look on the web for an Alesis Studio 32... 16 direct outs
>> and
>>>heaps of routing options.
>>>I have one, although I'm now using my M-Audio Mix Control, but it was
>>>floorless whist I was using it, (over 5 years).
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94307 is a reply to message #94305] |
Thu, 03 January 2008 06:21 |
Ed
Messages: 199
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi Erlilo,
Thanks alot for the tips. I am not a Pro with mixers and front-end like
this... perhaps this will get me started in the right direction. The Behringer
manuals are terrible for real life recording applications. I can see that
someone really tries hard to make their manuals easy, but if you don't know
some of their lingo... you get lost in the steps or sequences. I am gonna
setup the SL mixer and try again...
I was working on some older recordings and although I can easily change
the 8-in from semi-pro to pro, it doesn't always take effect unless I start
a new project and pull those .paf files into the new one. Not sure if this
is a known bug or what. I just can't wait for Paris 4.0 release.... ;)
~ Ed
erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>Ed,
>
>Remember the meters on the Behringers are showing peak signals and is
>not working like "old" VUmeters, that's showing the average.
>Be sure to have the start of the sliders up to 0 on Subgroups that is
>feeding Paris.
>Be sure to set the trim control for each inchannel so high that the
>clip led on the channels are peaking, then set the trim control a
>little bit back so you get max signal before peaking.
>Have PFL listening on when soloing a channel to control how high the
>Power Led is showing on the channel. Only the left signal will show up
>in the Power Led when PFL. Be sure it's lighting nearly all the way up
>before peaking.
>If the Peak is coming on, back of a little bit on the trim control for
>that inchannel and you're ready to record.
>Be sure to look at the Paris 8in card, to see how the red peaklight
>are reacting.
>After recording, control how high the peak on the recorded
>Parischannel have been to see how it's reacting.
>If the recordings yet is low, see if you have set the Paris 8in cards
>to -10dB.
>Since your subgroup outs are unbalanced, -10dB are often the most
>correct to use. Test a ready to record signal in headphones when
>flipping between -10 and +4 on that Parischannel and you can hear at
>once wich have the highest signal.
>Professional balanced outs shall for the most have a +4dB signal.
>If there's still problems, try adjusting the screws on the 8in card to
>get it hotter.
>
>I see you have CoolEditPro. It can be a good idea to generate a 440 or
>1000 hz -10dB testtone recorded in CoolEdit and import it to Paris,
>to control that the outs of Paris is showing up correct at -10dB.
>If you have a tone generator, you can test a -10 or 0 dB signal sent
>from Behringer to be recorded in Paris, to find out how things are
>reacting.
>
>Hope there's something here to use for you.
>
>Erling
>
>
>
>On 3 Jan 2008 11:32:47 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Erlilo,
>>
>> Thanks so much for your help. I acquired the 8-in manual from the parisfaqs.com
>>website. I knew about the adjustment screw but I never messed with them.
>> I suppose I will have to look at these adjustments and try that. What
worries
>>me is that I have absolutely great levels when I send preamps or what-not
>>directly into the 8-in card. I don't understand why I am losing so much
>>beef going through the mixer... and the levels sound very hot in the mixer,
>>but if I trigger a channel to record, it barely moves. If adjusting the
>>screws gets me going with the mixer, then I'll be happy.. ummm. for now...
>>lol Thanks again... ~ Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>>Hi again Ed,
>>>
>>>You see, I don't have these problems at all with any of my Behringer
>>>mixers. I am allways trimming the gain control at the top of the mixer
>>>to feed the fader with enough sound at about 0dB and I can see the red
>>>lights going on and off on the Paris 8in cards when the signal peaks
>>>at top. For me, the level peak metering on the Behringers are nearly
>>>allways working in the yellow area, not the green; and right before
>>>clipping red.
>>>By the way, I've found the manuals for the Paris 8in/outs cards. If
>>>you need them I'll send them to you.
>>>
>>>Good luck
>>>
>>>Erling
>>>
>>>On 3 Jan 2008 01:59:34 +1000, "Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Erling,
>>>>
>>>> Interesting you mentioned about the calibration. I will have to look
>>into
>>>>that... and perhaps that is where my problem lies. As I stated, when
I
>>go
>>>>directly into the 8-ins from the preamp or DI or whatever, I have no
problems
>>>>getting levels. But when I feed through the Behringer mixers, the wet
>>channels
>>>>are not hot enough, although in the monitor of the mixer, it is over
powering.
>>>> I know that I may not be explaining it very well... but that is what
seems
>>>>to be happening. I have switched the 8-in cards to Pro, instead of Semi-Pro.
>>>> That helped a little, but not enough.
>>>>
>>>>Another way to think of this is... Say my vox is on mixer channel 1
(to
>>>>be recorded) and is fed thru the Direct Out to Channel 1 on the 8-in.
>>And
>>>>say channels 5 thru 16 have guitars, drums, keyboards and backup/harmony
>>>>vox. And this is a rock song, so it isn't soft. I have the Paris main/monitor
>>>>outs fed to the mixer channel 25 and 26 for playback/monitor... If I
turn
>>>>up my vox to slightly over power the monitor (and is almost max w/o distortion),
>>>>it is ok in the mix, but not in the recorded levels. So remember, what
>>is
>>>>going out the Direct Out is controlled on mixer channel 1. This has
been
>>>>my dilemma for months...
>>>>
>>>>erlilo <erling.lovik@lyse.net> wrote:
>>>>>Hey Ed and Happy New Year to you too!
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry to hear about your levelproblems with the SL mixer.
>>>>>
>>>>>In the first Paris years I used an Alesis Studio 32 with 16 direct
>>>>>outs, as Martin talked about. Used it for some years but it began to
>>>>>be more and more faulty on some of the channels. So I went the
>>>>>Behringer wagon and get an MX3224X and an UB2442FX-Pro. Have used them
>>>>>for years now with my two Parissystems without problems. One of the
>>>>>systems are mobile and is using the UB mixer to feed 8 direct outs to
>>>>>a Paris 8-ins card. For me, the headroom is good enough for most of
my
>>>>>recordings when travelling with it. But the MX3224X is one of the
>>>>>best, if not the best in it's class. The exstra big external power
>>>>>(150 watts/ 7kg) supply is built for extreme uses and have headroom
>>>>>enough to most jobs. 16 direct outs, inserts on each channel, 4 groups
>>>>>outs, in line system etc.
>>>>>http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng
>>>>>
>>>>>After looking at the specifications on the different Behringer mixers,
>>>>>I see that max input level is the same on these kind of mixers. Max
>>>>>output are from +22dBu to +28dBu, where Xenyx, MX and SL have +28, so
>>>>>maybe your problem isn't the mixer at all but the Paris 8-ins card?
>>>>>Are you sure it's calibrated correct to work optimal? On the back of
>>>>>it, you can calibrate it with a little shrewdriver. I know there have
>>>>>been written here about how to do this correct but I can't find the
>>>>>papers here. Maybe some other have them yet, so you can try it out.
>>>>>
>>>>>Erling
|
|
|
|
| Re: A Decent Ftont End Mixer or? [message #94309 is a reply to message #94306] |
Thu, 03 January 2008 07:46 |
AlexPlasko
Messages: 211
Registered: September 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ed I think you should just get rid of the mixer all together.from what your
describing the output stage of the channels are shot at the direct out
tap.why do you even need a mixer? do you need that many mic pres
simultaneously?sounds like your going to have to limit it to 2 tracks at a
time from the main outs.
the Paris mixer is a hell of a lot better any way.
I just scrapped my mixer when I went madi.a control surface is all I need. I
cant afford a neve console either.
again, unless you need that many inputs at once I think you will sleep
better without the mixer in the chain.
"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote in message news:477ccfbe$1@linux...
>
> Hi Aaron,
>
> Yes, I am gonna look into that. What worries me (as I posted earlier)
> is that I am getting hot/decent signals coming from my components
> (preamps,
> guitars, keyboards, etc.) and I couldn't ask for better levels... BUT!
> when
> I go through the Behringer mixers (either a SL or the MX) I lose levels
> big
> time! Although in the mix of the mixer, it is hot or loud. Now you
> wouldn't
> think of this as a serious issue except when you get a few loud tracks on
> playback. I can adjust the level of the playback tracks, but the
> recording
> channel/track is up as high as it can go without distorting and in Paris,
> it is pathetic. The SL has the 4 groups and the MX has direct outs. My
> main point is that I am losing levels going through the mixer. So I don't
> think the main issue is the Paris cards... I know not everyone is
> familiar
> with the Behringer SL and MX mixers... but I thought maybe it is the mixer
> and I was looking for something more of a front-end. A few suggested the
> Alesis Studio 32. After researching that item, I am reluctant to mess
> with
> it. Not only is it discontinued, I read tons of reviews/feedbacks from
> folks
> that have serious issues with this product. Mainly the channels going
> out.
> Oh well, I'll keep playing with it... I am not pressed for time, but sure
> am losing alot of sleep over this... tossing and turning, thinking what
> else
> can I try to get this right. lol.
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>Ed, have you tried adjusting the input trims to match better the signal
>
>>hitting the A to D's in Paris?
>>
>>AA
>>
>>"Ed" <askme@email.com> wrote in message news:477b9f5b$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Hi Martin and thanks for your response... That Alesis Studio 32 Mixer
>
>>> sounds
>>> like what I am looking for. Guess they don't make them anymore and will
>>> have to seek a used one... The price tag of that M-Audio Mix Control
> is
>>> a bit above what I want to spend.
>>>
>>> I honestly tried everything possible to get good levels through my
>>> Behringer
>>> mixers... and I can't. I end having to pull up the .paf in CoolEdit and
>>> increase it by 3 to 6 dbs on any track recording. In the monitor of the
>>> mixer, the instrument or vox is clear, clean and loud, but when it get
> to
>>> Paris, it is too low. If I decrease the monitor of Paris, then dubbing
> is
>>> impossible cause I can't hear nothing but the current take. If you know
>>> what I mean. Again, thanks for your advice....
>>>
>>> ~ Ed
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin Harrington <lendan@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>On 2/1/08 5:39 AM, in article 477a7ac3$1@linux, "Ed" <askme@email.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Happy New Year to you too.
>>>>The behringer should work...I've got one that I use occasionally when
>>>>clients want me to record to a couple of cameras and do a PA mix at the
>>> same
>>>>time..(XENYX 1222FX).
>>>>Very quiet and enough level to go to cameras at -20 dbfs.
>>>>Failing that..look on the web for an Alesis Studio 32... 16 direct outs
>>> and
>>>>heaps of routing options.
>>>>I have one, although I'm now using my M-Audio Mix Control, but it was
>>>>floorless whist I was using it, (over 5 years).
>>>>
>>>>Martin
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
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