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| Re: China [message #97130 is a reply to message #97129] |
Thu, 20 March 2008 08:15   |
Dedric Terry
Messages: 788
Registered: June 2007
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Senior Member |
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I'll only post this in response to your two posts since this topic is not
only off topic, but also unpopular:
Actually the Bible says Romans 3:22-24 "22 This righteousness from God comes
through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified
freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
Some use "turn or burn" tactics, but I don't agree with that approach. At
the same time, the "do whatever feels right to you" mentality is also
fatally flawed. Between those two is where Jesus taught - we aren't
perfect, and will never be on our own (anyone that disagrees, please attempt
to go a whole day without making a mistake of any kind, whether in action,
how you talk to someone else, or how you think ;-). Only through God's
grace and by his love can be be perfected in Him - not perfect humans, but
loved perfectly (i.e. beyond what we practice and understand in human love)
The point of the above passage, and the idea that we have all sinned is that
we can't receive God's grace and forgiveness, and become "righteous" in His
sight by our own power, deeds or merit. It isn't a scare tactic even though
it has been used that way.
We have to accept and believe that Jesus, not only loves us, but also took
the burden of our own sin upon himself by dying on the cross and being
raised from the dead to reunite with His Father - this became the symbol of
what "being saved" is all about - allowing old ways to die, and a new life
to begin, not just living a good life. This is how the concept of being
sinners really becomes a beautiful thing - we aren't doomed to pay for our
mistakes forever. There is hope. We also can't keep making the same
mistakes without consequences, whether earthly or heavenly (the former is
common sense - keep hitting your thumb with a hammer, eventually you'll
break it ;-).
In practice the change is real, and the heart does take on a new perspective
on our own lives, responsibilities, people around us, etc. We don't stop
making mistakes (but that's what forgiveness is for - not excuses, but
second chances), and we don't become perfect humans, but now we have hope
beyond what the world has to offer.
Happy Easter all,
Dedric
On 3/20/08 8:03 AM, in article 47e27184@linux, "Bill L"
<bill@billlorentzen.com> wrote:
> Personally, repeat *personally*, I think some creepy, disgusting Dark
> Ages priests said "all are lost and doomed by their sins". That is their
> control mechanism: "Do what we say or burn forever in Hell. Only I know
> the truth." Personally, I think that kind of coercion is disgusting.
>
> I prefer to believe Jesus was full of love and trust and belief in the
> goodness of man.
>
>
> DC wrote:
>> Sorry, I misread your question.
>>
>> Jesus taught that all are lost and all are doomed by their
>> sins. He never ever said people are basically good and
>> this position is against everything he stood and died for.
>>
>> We can pursue this further if you like, but it is very clear.
>>
>> DC
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China
By: excelav on Sun, 16 March 2008 12:59 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Sun, 16 March 2008 14:02 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Sun, 16 March 2008 16:02 |
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Re: China
By: TCB on Sun, 16 March 2008 23:37 |
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Re: China
By: JeffH on Sun, 16 March 2008 22:59 |
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Re: China
By: TCB on Mon, 17 March 2008 00:29 |
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Re: China
By: JeffH on Mon, 17 March 2008 00:39 |
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Mon, 17 March 2008 09:00 |
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Re: China
By: Sarah on Sun, 16 March 2008 16:41 |
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Re: China
By: rick on Mon, 17 March 2008 01:43 |
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Re: China
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Re: China
By: excelav on Mon, 17 March 2008 10:20 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 17 March 2008 10:14 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Mon, 17 March 2008 12:00 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Mon, 17 March 2008 12:36 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Sun, 16 March 2008 14:11 |
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Re: China
By: TCB on Sun, 16 March 2008 15:25 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Sun, 16 March 2008 14:17 |
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Re: China
By: TCB on Sun, 16 March 2008 23:33 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Sun, 16 March 2008 23:08 |
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Re: China
By: Kim on Sun, 16 March 2008 17:30 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Sun, 16 March 2008 23:17 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Mon, 17 March 2008 00:55 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 17 March 2008 07:53 |
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Re: China
By: Kim on Mon, 17 March 2008 03:26 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 17 March 2008 07:53 |
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Re: China
By: rick on Mon, 17 March 2008 08:45 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 17 March 2008 08:46 |
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Re: China
By: Jamie K on Mon, 17 March 2008 10:30 |
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Re: China
By: Jamie K on Mon, 17 March 2008 10:26 |
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Re: China
By: rick on Tue, 18 March 2008 01:50 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Mon, 17 March 2008 00:41 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Mon, 17 March 2008 06:55 |
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Mon, 17 March 2008 08:15 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Mon, 17 March 2008 09:26 |
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Re: China
By: Don Nafe on Mon, 17 March 2008 10:00 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Mon, 17 March 2008 16:42 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Mon, 17 March 2008 18:48 |
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Re: China
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Re: China
By: excelav on Tue, 18 March 2008 00:03 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Tue, 18 March 2008 08:14 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Tue, 18 March 2008 11:58 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Tue, 18 March 2008 14:39 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Tue, 18 March 2008 20:11 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Tue, 18 March 2008 02:08 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Tue, 18 March 2008 08:19 |
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Tue, 18 March 2008 18:08 |
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Re: China
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Tue, 18 March 2008 23:58 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Tue, 18 March 2008 20:16 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Wed, 19 March 2008 01:25 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Wed, 19 March 2008 06:17 |
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Re: China
By: DC on Wed, 19 March 2008 08:51 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Wed, 19 March 2008 08:34 |
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Wed, 19 March 2008 15:30 |
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Wed, 19 March 2008 16:24 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Thu, 20 March 2008 01:39 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Thu, 20 March 2008 03:26 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Thu, 20 March 2008 04:39 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Thu, 20 March 2008 14:30 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Thu, 20 March 2008 10:10 |
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Re: China
By: dc[3] on Thu, 20 March 2008 11:21 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Thu, 20 March 2008 11:15 |
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Re: China
By: DC on Thu, 20 March 2008 12:46 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Thu, 20 March 2008 07:03 |
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Re: China
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Thu, 20 March 2008 09:07 |
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Re: China
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Re: China
By: rick on Fri, 21 March 2008 04:48 |
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Re: China
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Re: China
By: rick on Fri, 21 March 2008 07:32 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Tue, 18 March 2008 00:31 |
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Re: China
By: erlilo on Tue, 18 March 2008 02:21 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Tue, 18 March 2008 08:24 |
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Re: China
By: TCB on Tue, 18 March 2008 05:37 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Tue, 18 March 2008 08:30 |
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Re: China
By: TCB on Wed, 19 March 2008 02:53 |
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Re: China
By: Bill L on Wed, 19 March 2008 06:04 |
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Re: China
By: rick on Mon, 17 March 2008 01:41 |
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Re: China
By: Kim on Mon, 17 March 2008 03:20 |
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Re: China
By: Deej [5] on Mon, 17 March 2008 07:55 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Fri, 21 March 2008 11:23 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Fri, 21 March 2008 16:16 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Fri, 21 March 2008 16:19 |
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Re: China
By: excelav on Fri, 21 March 2008 18:43 |
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