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| Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68240] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 00:45  |
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Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing Paris
on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability unless I
first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with whatever
DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX before I
launched Paris.
Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything* in
the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the clock
signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the Mytek
clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the RME
is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that is
feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should even
be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock signal,
it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68247 is a reply to message #68240] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 07:16  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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Deej, I use a Lucid GenX6 as my master clock, and I don't have
anything happening like what you describe.
I assume you do indeed have the Multiface driver settings set to
"Auto-Sync", and not "Master"; and also you're selecting "Word
Clock" as the sync option & not SPDIF or something else?
Neil
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing Paris
>on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability unless
I
>first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with whatever
>DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX before
I
>launched Paris.
>
>Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
in
>the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
>inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the clock
>signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the Mytek
>clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the
RME
>is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that is
>feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
>
>Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should even
>be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
>clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock signal,
>it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
>
>Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
>
>
>
>
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68249 is a reply to message #68240] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 07:41 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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Reclocking is not a great idea... you should send clock directly to
all devices from *one* source without buffering or regeneration. I
would then boot the clock first, digital periferals second, SX machine
third, and Paris last (but the MEC's get turned on with the perifierals).
David.
DJ wrote:
> I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing Paris
> on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability unless I
> first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with whatever
> DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX before I
> launched Paris.
>
> Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything* in
> the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
> inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the clock
> signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the Mytek
> clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the RME
> is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that is
> feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
>
> Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should even
> be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
> clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock signal,
> it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
>
>
>
>
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68251 is a reply to message #68249] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 07:44 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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That's a good point about the clock being booted first...
mine's on the same power conditioner as my PC, so whenever I
flip the switch on that, the clock automatically comes on before
the PC gets booted up.
However, there's been a couple of occasions where I've been
repatching some stuff & have knocked the power supply cable out
of the Lucid, and when I reinsert it, the RME card picks up the
clock signal again perfectly, so I suspect there might be
something else going on here. Deej, what version of the RME
driver are you using, and did you ever check to see what version
of the RME PCI card you have?
Neil
EK Sound <askme@nospam.com> wrote:
>Reclocking is not a great idea... you should send clock directly to
>all devices from *one* source without buffering or regeneration. I
>would then boot the clock first, digital periferals second, SX machine
>third, and Paris last (but the MEC's get turned on with the perifierals).
>
>David.
>
>DJ wrote:
>> I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing Paris
>> on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability unless
I
>> first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with whatever
>> DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX before
I
>> launched Paris.
>>
>> Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
in
>> the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
>> inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the
clock
>> signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the
Mytek
>> clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the
RME
>> is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that
is
>> feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
>>
>> Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should
even
>> be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
>> clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock signal,
>> it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
>>
>> Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68252 is a reply to message #68240] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 07:44 |
gene lennon
Messages: 565
Registered: July 2006
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Senior Member |
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"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing Paris
>on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability unless
I
>first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with whatever
>DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX before
I
>launched Paris.
>
>Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
in
>the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
>inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the clock
>signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the Mytek
>clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the
RME
>is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that is
>feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
>
>Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should even
>be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
>clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock signal,
>it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
>
>Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
>
I use a Mytek 8X96 as house clock and I have three RME 9652 cards in my setup
plus a large MOTU rig, and I don’t have any similar issues. I do have a startup
order, but I have some latitude with it. I am only running two MECs on a
three card Paris rig. It was adding the third MEC that gave me some consistency
issues, so I went back to 98se and two MECs.
Gene
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68261 is a reply to message #68249] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 08:38 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
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Senior Member |
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That's *exactly* my boot sequence. I am clocking my whole studio from the
Mytek and I am looping
signals *through* channels on Cubase SX. Now if Paris, that is receiving
10ps clock signal directly from the Mytek, sends 48 tracks that are being
clocked at 10ps to the RME device (which is also receiving 10ps clock
directly from the Mytek and is set to autosync), and the tracks are being
processed in Cubase and returned to Paris, are the tracks being
returned to Paris still clocked at 10ps? Since there are also
other digital devices interfacing Paris (but not the RME system)
which are being clocked directly from the Mytek at 10ps, if the RME system
is returning a value other than 10ps to Paris, would this be a
train wreck in the making?
I'm getting a headache
"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:4468922d@linux...
> Reclocking is not a great idea... you should send clock directly to
> all devices from *one* source without buffering or regeneration. I
> would then boot the clock first, digital periferals second, SX machine
> third, and Paris last (but the MEC's get turned on with the perifierals).
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
> > I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing
Paris
> > on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability
unless I
> > first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with
whatever
> > DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX
before I
> > launched Paris.
> >
> > Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
in
> > the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
> > inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the
clock
> > signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the
Mytek
> > clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the
RME
> > is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that
is
> > feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
> >
> > Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should
even
> > be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
> > clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock
signal,
> > it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
> >
> > Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
> >
> >
> >
> >
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68262 is a reply to message #68261] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 09:18 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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That setup is correct, as long as all devices are set to clock to *WC*
and not the digital connection from the source device. Doing this,
the "leading edge" of each sample will arrive at every device at the
same time... you should not have any train wrecks do it this way.
There may be a few samples "delay" going from one device to another
(I/O delay) but the samples will be arriving at the same time (even
though some are delayed a bit).
David.
DJ wrote:
> That's *exactly* my boot sequence. I am clocking my whole studio from the
> Mytek and I am looping
> signals *through* channels on Cubase SX. Now if Paris, that is receiving
> 10ps clock signal directly from the Mytek, sends 48 tracks that are being
> clocked at 10ps to the RME device (which is also receiving 10ps clock
> directly from the Mytek and is set to autosync), and the tracks are being
> processed in Cubase and returned to Paris, are the tracks being
> returned to Paris still clocked at 10ps? Since there are also
> other digital devices interfacing Paris (but not the RME system)
> which are being clocked directly from the Mytek at 10ps, if the RME system
> is returning a value other than 10ps to Paris, would this be a
> train wreck in the making?
>
> I'm getting a headache
>
> "EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:4468922d@linux...
>
>>Reclocking is not a great idea... you should send clock directly to
>>all devices from *one* source without buffering or regeneration. I
>>would then boot the clock first, digital periferals second, SX machine
>>third, and Paris last (but the MEC's get turned on with the perifierals).
>>
>>David.
>>
>>DJ wrote:
>>
>>>I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing
>
> Paris
>
>>>on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability
>
> unless I
>
>>>first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with
>
> whatever
>
>>>DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX
>
> before I
>
>>>launched Paris.
>>>
>>>Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
>
> in
>
>>>the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
>>>inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the
>
> clock
>
>>>signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the
>
> Mytek
>
>>>clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the
>
> RME
>
>>>is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that
>
> is
>
>>>feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
>>>
>>>Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should
>
> even
>
>>>be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
>>>clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock
>
> signal,
>
>>>it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
>>>
>>>Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68265 is a reply to message #68262] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 09:08 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
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OK then. Looks like I'm good to go. The system has been very stable since I
returned to my proper boot sequence (the one you described and which I was
using, before I had a senior moment).
;o)
"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:4468a8e3$1@linux...
> That setup is correct, as long as all devices are set to clock to *WC*
> and not the digital connection from the source device. Doing this,
> the "leading edge" of each sample will arrive at every device at the
> same time... you should not have any train wrecks do it this way.
> There may be a few samples "delay" going from one device to another
> (I/O delay) but the samples will be arriving at the same time (even
> though some are delayed a bit).
>
> David.
>
> DJ wrote:
> > That's *exactly* my boot sequence. I am clocking my whole studio from
the
> > Mytek and I am looping
> > signals *through* channels on Cubase SX. Now if Paris, that is receiving
> > 10ps clock signal directly from the Mytek, sends 48 tracks that are
being
> > clocked at 10ps to the RME device (which is also receiving 10ps clock
> > directly from the Mytek and is set to autosync), and the tracks are
being
> > processed in Cubase and returned to Paris, are the tracks being
> > returned to Paris still clocked at 10ps? Since there are also
> > other digital devices interfacing Paris (but not the RME system)
> > which are being clocked directly from the Mytek at 10ps, if the RME
system
> > is returning a value other than 10ps to Paris, would this be a
> > train wreck in the making?
> >
> > I'm getting a headache
> >
> > "EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:4468922d@linux...
> >
> >>Reclocking is not a great idea... you should send clock directly to
> >>all devices from *one* source without buffering or regeneration. I
> >>would then boot the clock first, digital periferals second, SX machine
> >>third, and Paris last (but the MEC's get turned on with the
perifierals).
> >>
> >>David.
> >>
> >>DJ wrote:
> >>
> >>>I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing
> >
> > Paris
> >
> >>>on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability
> >
> > unless I
> >
> >>>first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with
> >
> > whatever
> >
> >>>DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX
> >
> > before I
> >
> >>>launched Paris.
> >>>
> >>>Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
> >
> > in
> >
> >>>the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the
digital
> >>>inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the
> >
> > clock
> >
> >>>signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the
> >
> > Mytek
> >
> >>>clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if
the
> >
> > RME
> >
> >>>is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that
> >
> > is
> >
> >>>feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
> >>>
> >>>Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should
> >
> > even
> >
> >>>be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
> >>>clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock
> >
> > signal,
> >
> >>>it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
> >>>
> >>>Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
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| Re: Boot sequence and why it is important with RME gear [message #68271 is a reply to message #68252] |
Mon, 15 May 2006 12:07 |
rick
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
|
Senior Member |
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gene,
Are you running the new 424 PCIe cards? If yes, have you noticed a
difference in the audio? One last question. Have you tried the Black
Lion Mods?
On 16 May 2006 00:44:54 +1000, "gene lennon"
<glennon@NOSPmyrealbox.com> wrote:
>
>"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>>I may have made a discovery here. From the first day I began syncing Paris
>>on one computer and RME cards on another, I experienced instability unless
>I
>>first turned on all of my digital gadgets that are interfacing with whatever
>>DAW, then booted the RME computer first and then launched Cubase SX before
>I
>>launched Paris.
>>
>>Well, it turns out that the Mytek clock that is sending to *everything*
>in
>>the studio is *reclocked* by the RME card and so, apparently the digital
>>inputs from the RME cards to the Paris cards may be different from the clock
>>signal that Paris is sending from it's outputs that are locked to the Mytek
>>clock and sending to the RME digital inputs. For whatever reason, if the
>RME
>>is booted first, it has a chance to not only reclock the Mytek WC that is
>>feeding it, but also the Paris digital inputs that are feeding it.
>>
>>Now.....if my thinking is correct on this, I'm wondering if I should even
>>be using the Mytek at all. The specs on the Mytek (10ps) exceed the RME
>>clock, but if the RME clock is diddling around with this house clock signal,
>>it seems it would be a recipe for all sorts of mischief.
>>
>>Any thoughts on this? Could I be correct here?
>>
>I use a Mytek 8X96 as house clock and I have three RME 9652 cards in my setup
>plus a large MOTU rig, and I don’t have any similar issues. I do have a startup
>order, but I have some latitude with it. I am only running two MECs on a
>three card Paris rig. It was adding the third MEC that gave me some consistency
>issues, so I went back to 98se and two MECs.
>Gene
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