Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » TOTALLY off topic!
| TOTALLY off topic! [message #95343] |
Fri, 01 February 2008 21:24  |
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My wife and I just finished watching the Zeitgeist Movie (http://zeitgeistmovie.com/).
I'm still digesting it. I've already seen a lot online that refutes and
argues with it's points. What do you folks think?
Gantt
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95358 is a reply to message #95357] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 08:13  |
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I'd seen that review/critique long before we watched the movie. It seems
to me that Jay Kinney doesn't much like the movie but doesn't totally disagree
that some of the issues it raises are worth thinking about. The stuff about
religion doesn't worry me. I'm a lapsed Jew who occasionally practices Hindu/Buddhist
meditation and I have no problems with Jesus. He has become the most famous
and influential rabbi (which simply means "teacher") and guru (loosely translates
to "one who gives light" or 'teacher') in the history of our contemporary
world. I worry more about what people have done (and continue to do) in Jesus'
name. However, I had never heard about the demolition theories of 9/11 or
the international banker cabal stuff. If half of it is true it's pretty
disturbing. Even if 10% of it is true!
Gantt
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>The shit storm is that film.
>
>Start here:
>
> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/06/jay-kinney-reviews-z.ht ml
>
>That film is not about facts. There are no facts, only "facts"
>those being defined as that which serves the goal of the filmmaker.
>
>DC
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95371 is a reply to message #95362] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 11:50 |
![dc[3] is currently offline](/theme/PARIS_Forum_Template/images/offline.png "dc[3] is currently offline")
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>Interesting that the film reviewer really doesn't debunk the facts the film
>states about the Christian religion
>
>As I said I haven't done any research on this so if I'm totally off base
>here my apologies.
>
>As for the 911 and Banking stuff...who's to say? One thing's for certain,
>we'll never know for sure
>
>hehehe
No need to apologize. Questions are good, propaganda is bad.
The Christian religion can be described in many ways. Some would
say the Catholic church, others the crusaders, others some great saint
or leader. To me, it is composed of those who follow Jesus and are
first saved and committed to him, and then through that power and
his example, live as he lived, as much as possible.
This is the great and invisible Christian church. It is invisible because
it does not have a name, other than Christian, and does not have an
office building. It is the saved in Christ.
Not a one of us was in that film, yet it claims to attack "Christianity",
It misses badly, and in doing so exposes who is the author of this hate.
Ask all the questions you like, but ask them, not of straw men put
forward as archetypes, but of those who follow Christ.
DC
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95373 is a reply to message #95358] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 12:05 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>I'd seen that review/critique long before we watched the movie. It seems
>to me that Jay Kinney doesn't much like the movie but doesn't totally disagree
>that some of the issues it raises are worth thinking about.
Absolutely. Now if we just had a better source of content...
>The stuff about
>religion doesn't worry me. I'm a lapsed Jew who occasionally practices
Hindu/Buddhist
>meditation and I have no problems with Jesus. He has become the most famous
>and influential rabbi (which simply means "teacher") and guru (loosely translates
>to "one who gives light" or 'teacher') in the history of our contemporary
>world. I worry more about what people have done (and continue to do) in
Jesus'
>name.
You reduce Jesus to a nice teacher, and then worry more about the
actions of his "followers" than you do about the enemy of souls...
Here is who Jesus is: (from the book of John)
------------------
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made
that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the
world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but
his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed
in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a
husband's will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who
came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
------------------
Now, this is either a lie and a cruel joke, or it is true. If it is a lie,
then Jesus is a fraud and a criminal, not a good teacher, and he
deserved what he got. If it is true, then that film was inspired by
the enemy of souls.
For yourself, you decide. I know where I come down on this.
>However, I had never heard about the demolition theories of 9/11 or
>the international banker cabal stuff. If half of it is true it's pretty
>disturbing. Even if 10% of it is true!
But how would you know? It's a hall of mirrors and paranoia...
DC
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95380 is a reply to message #95371] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 12:31 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:47a4bb67$1@linux...
>
> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>Interesting that the film reviewer really doesn't debunk the facts the
>>film
>
>>states about the Christian religion
>>
>>As I said I haven't done any research on this so if I'm totally off base
>
>>here my apologies.
>>
>>As for the 911 and Banking stuff...who's to say? One thing's for certain,
>
>>we'll never know for sure
>>
>>hehehe
>
> No need to apologize. Questions are good, propaganda is bad.
>
> The Christian religion can be described in many ways. Some would
> say the Catholic church, others the crusaders, others some great saint
> or leader. To me, it is composed of those who follow Jesus and are
> first saved and committed to him, and then through that power and
> his example, live as he lived, as much as possible.
>
> This is the great and invisible Christian church. It is invisible because
> it does not have a name, other than Christian, and does not have an
> office building. It is the saved in Christ.
>
> Not a one of us was in that film, yet it claims to attack "Christianity",
> It misses badly, and in doing so exposes who is the author of this hate.
>
> Ask all the questions you like, but ask them, not of straw men put
> forward as archetypes, but of those who follow Christ.
>
> DC
I guess the thing that disturbs me is that some people feel the need to
brand anyone who questions the many similarities between the Jesus Christ
and other Ancient Deities a heretic, a blasphemer or a proponent of the
Devil.
If I'm not mistaken there is a fair amount historical evidence that these
similarities do exist and therefore it is fair to ask the question...is
Jesus Christ the Son of God or is he just the latest version in a line of
Deities that are based in ancient pagan worship.
Don
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95388 is a reply to message #95380] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 15:06 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:47a4bb67$1@linux...
>>
>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>Interesting that the film reviewer really doesn't debunk the facts the
>>>film
>>
>>>states about the Christian religion
>>>
>>>As I said I haven't done any research on this so if I'm totally off base
>>
>>>here my apologies.
>>>
>>>As for the 911 and Banking stuff...who's to say? One thing's for certain,
>>
>>>we'll never know for sure
>>>
>>>hehehe
>>
>> No need to apologize. Questions are good, propaganda is bad.
>>
>> The Christian religion can be described in many ways. Some would
>> say the Catholic church, others the crusaders, others some great saint
>> or leader. To me, it is composed of those who follow Jesus and are
>> first saved and committed to him, and then through that power and
>> his example, live as he lived, as much as possible.
>>
>> This is the great and invisible Christian church. It is invisible because
>> it does not have a name, other than Christian, and does not have an
>> office building. It is the saved in Christ.
>>
>> Not a one of us was in that film, yet it claims to attack "Christianity",
>> It misses badly, and in doing so exposes who is the author of this hate.
>>
>> Ask all the questions you like, but ask them, not of straw men put
>> forward as archetypes, but of those who follow Christ.
>>
>> DC
>
>
>
>I guess the thing that disturbs me is that some people feel the need to
>brand anyone who questions the many similarities between the Jesus Christ
>and other Ancient Deities a heretic, a blasphemer or a proponent of the
>Devil.
>
It's vary popular these days to blast christians and Christianity. The term
Christian right wing nut gets thrown around a lot these days. Anti christian's
are trying to blame the world's problems on Christians, it's a form of puracusion.
Christian are being murdered in different places around the world today.
That film is a bunch of lies, to deceive you about the truth. I have suggested
that you read the Bible and come to your own conclusions.
>If I'm not mistaken there is a fair amount historical evidence that these
>similarities do exist and therefore it is fair to ask the question...is
>Jesus Christ the Son of God or is he just the latest version in a line of
>Deities that are based in ancient pagan worship.
>
>
>Don
The answer to your last question is in the Bible, I suggest you read it for
yourself.
James
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95389 is a reply to message #95388] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 15:09 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote in message news:47a4bb67$1@linux...
>>>
>>> "Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>>Interesting that the film reviewer really doesn't debunk the facts the
>
>>>>film
>>>
>>>>states about the Christian religion
>>>>
>>>>As I said I haven't done any research on this so if I'm totally off base
>>>
>>>>here my apologies.
>>>>
>>>>As for the 911 and Banking stuff...who's to say? One thing's for certain,
>>>
>>>>we'll never know for sure
>>>>
>>>>hehehe
>>>
>>> No need to apologize. Questions are good, propaganda is bad.
>>>
>>> The Christian religion can be described in many ways. Some would
>>> say the Catholic church, others the crusaders, others some great saint
>>> or leader. To me, it is composed of those who follow Jesus and are
>>> first saved and committed to him, and then through that power and
>>> his example, live as he lived, as much as possible.
>>>
>>> This is the great and invisible Christian church. It is invisible because
>>> it does not have a name, other than Christian, and does not have an
>>> office building. It is the saved in Christ.
>>>
>>> Not a one of us was in that film, yet it claims to attack "Christianity",
>>> It misses badly, and in doing so exposes who is the author of this hate.
>>>
>>> Ask all the questions you like, but ask them, not of straw men put
>>> forward as archetypes, but of those who follow Christ.
>>>
>>> DC
>>
>>
>>
>>I guess the thing that disturbs me is that some people feel the need to
>
>>brand anyone who questions the many similarities between the Jesus Christ
>
>>and other Ancient Deities a heretic, a blasphemer or a proponent of the
>
>>Devil.
>>
>
>It's vary popular these days to blast christians and Christianity. The
term
>Christian right wing nut gets thrown around a lot these days. Anti christian's
>are trying to blame the world's problems on Christians, it's a form of persecution.
> Christian are being murdered in different places around the world today.
> That film is a bunch of lies, to deceive you about the truth. I have suggested
>that you read the Bible and come to your own conclusions.
>
>>If I'm not mistaken there is a fair amount historical evidence that these
>
>>similarities do exist and therefore it is fair to ask the question...is
>
>>Jesus Christ the Son of God or is he just the latest version in a line
of
>
>>Deities that are based in ancient pagan worship.
>>
>>
>>Don
>
>The answer to your last question is in the Bible, I suggest you read it
for
>yourself.
>
>James
>
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95393 is a reply to message #95378] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 15:25 |
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I knew I'd be sorry for opening this can of works! It's not the first part
of the Zeitgeist movie that concerns me but that's probably because I'm not
a Christian. I hope you all can forgive me. I know God does. I believe
that God loves us all, no matter what we do or what we believe. I believe
that the hand of God has been at work in all the great religious scriptures
- from the Bhagavad Gita to the Koran to the many versions of the Bible.
However i believe that all those books are the work of men (and maybe some
women) and as such reflect their beliefs, opinions and agendas. And I take
grave exception to anyone who believes that their Truth is more true than
mine.
Anyway I think it's a shame that the Zeitgeist guys thought it best to lead
with their section about Christianity. It seems to have almost guaranteed
that many Christians would stop watching and never see the second and third
parts, which are the ones that most got me wondering about what really happened
and what's really going on.
Gantt
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:47a3fe46$1@linux...
>>>
>>> I don't know what you believe, but the devil will deceive you.
>>
>>
>Don, read the bible. I would recommend an easy to read version based on
>the King James Bible. This way, you can come to your own conclusions, besides,
>it's the number one selling book in the world. I would think it would be
>logical to read the number one selling book in the world to see for yourself
>what all the buzz is about. If you read it, you will find something in
there
>for you.
>
>
>James
>>I don't know what you believe either but I hope you're not serious
>>
>>
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95395 is a reply to message #95393] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 15:35 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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Gantt, I believe the Bible. The Bible was written down by man, however the
bible is the word of god, not man. I suggest you also read the number one
selling book in the world, the Bible, you will get something out of it also.
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>I knew I'd be sorry for opening this can of works! It's not the first
part
>of the Zeitgeist movie that concerns me but that's probably because I'm
not
>a Christian. I hope you all can forgive me. I know God does. I believe
>that God loves us all, no matter what we do or what we believe. I believe
>that the hand of God has been at work in all the great religious scriptures
>- from the Bhagavad Gita to the Koran to the many versions of the Bible.
> However i believe that all those books are the work of men (and maybe some
>women) and as such reflect their beliefs, opinions and agendas. And I take
>grave exception to anyone who believes that their Truth is more true than
>mine.
>
>Anyway I think it's a shame that the Zeitgeist guys thought it best to lead
>with their section about Christianity. It seems to have almost guaranteed
>that many Christians would stop watching and never see the second and third
>parts, which are the ones that most got me wondering about what really happened
>and what's really going on.
>
>Gantt
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Don Nafe" <dnafe@magma.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:47a3fe46$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what you believe, but the devil will deceive you.
>>>
>>>
>>Don, read the bible. I would recommend an easy to read version based on
>>the King James Bible. This way, you can come to your own conclusions,
besides,
>>it's the number one selling book in the world. I would think it would
be
>>logical to read the number one selling book in the world to see for yourself
>>what all the buzz is about. If you read it, you will find something in
>there
>>for you.
>>
>>
>>James
>>>I don't know what you believe either but I hope you're not serious
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95406 is a reply to message #95397] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 17:27 |
excelav
Messages: 2130
Registered: July 2005
Location: Metro Detroit
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Senior Member |
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Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or you don't.
It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion, especially
if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness. They
talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't explain
Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in those
days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name Mother.
You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means new
beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around and
say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I suggest
you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of religious
figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with the
letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those that
don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for themselves.
I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is no
truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in to
a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you were
sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the table,
or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness is
void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The truth
is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth. Many
want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you and
keep you in the dark.
God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the story.
You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the bible
for your self and you decide.
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>
>Now I don't know or care about this film...
>
>...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out whether
>GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>
>Cheers,
>Kim.
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95409 is a reply to message #95406] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 18:05 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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It all depends on what is authoritative to you.
If you assume that there cannot be miracles, that the natural
world is all there is, then you study Jesus and the Bible as
historical documents, no more important than any other.
If, however, you decide it is impossible for intelligence to
self generate (you code guys should know about this)
and we are walking repositories of clearly specified intelligence
in our genes and minds, then there had to be some input to
the system from outside.
Given that fact, and I think it is a fact, we give credence to
the histories of Socrates, Aristotle, and Plato, and they
existed hundreds of years before Jesus. We study them
and appreciate them as historical fact and as philosophical
influences, in short, as real people, yet the atheists wish us
to believe that Jesus was a fairy tale. Well hang on, because it
is very unlikely that Jesus was a fairy tale, and worse, there is
no possible explanation for the lives of self-sacrifice and
the gruesome deaths of the apostles and followers of Jesus
because of their unwavering convictions, than something
abso-fuggin-lutely huge happened in their lives to change them,
and the world forever. Jesus, was what happened; the real
Jesus, not the metaphor Jesus, not the ghandi-buddha-krishna-
MLK-good rabbi Jesus, but Jesus Christ the Word. Notice please,
that I have yet to say a word about the changed lives and miracles
that support my faith. They too are real, but they are not even
needed to show the reasonableness of believing in Jesus.
If you believe there is more to life than the material, then
you really, truly must meet Jesus.
If not, then one viewpoint is as good as another. You try them
on like suits and sunglasses until you like the fit.
DC
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95431 is a reply to message #95406] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 22:09 |
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So, how did humans get "saved" before Jesus? We've been around for 40 or
50 or even 60 thousand years now and we have a fair amount of documentable
history from the last 10 or 15 thousand. Who "saved" Lord Krishna? Who
saved the Buddha? Did they and all their followers go to Hell because Jesus
hadn't been born yet? I'm asking a serious question here - one that I don't
think your bible can answer. I once asked a born again Christian friend
what would happen to a Buddhist who had led a perfect Buddhist life - one
of kindness and service to his (or her) fellow man, a life without fault
- who had never been exposed to the Word of God as taught by Jesus the Christ?
Would he go to Heaven or Hell? My friend replied that in order to enter
the Kingdom of Heaven he would have to accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.
I don't buy that. God has existed forever. Jesus existed 2000 years ago.
God has never changed. Only our perceptions have changed. I maintain that
the Perfect Buddhist would have gone where we all go - back to God. Call
it Heaven if you like. We all go back there. There is no other place to
go.
I've never read the New Testament. Maybe someday I will. I have, however
read much of the Torah, which is what we Jews call the Old Testament. I
don't much agree with the parts that discuss who and how we can own other
people as slaves or how much I can sell my daughter for or why I should stone
someone to death who does work on the Sabbath. The Torah is allegedly the
Word Of God too, isn't it? Jesus was a Jew. What do you suppose he believed?
I've read a bit about the history of the Old Testament. It's interesting
to see how and when the stories were organized into the form we now know
it. It's also interesting to read the theories about who wrote the stories
and what their social/political reasons might have been. Why would the writing
of the New Testament be significantly different? And why should I accept
any of these writings as the literal, pure and true Word Of God? You can
argue faith and I accept that. Can you accept that my faith in God doesn't
need a saviour named Jesus? And that I can accept the fact of Jesus' existance
and the importance of his teachings without needing to believe that he was
the son of God?
Man! My apologies to everyone here! I started this thread to discuss 9-11
conspiracy theories and international banker cabals! Honest! I'm even willing
to throw a few Alien Invasion theories into the mix!
Peace,
Gantt
"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Faith is like trust, it's not always 100%, but you either have it or you
don't.
>
>
>It's easy to put things together and come to the wrong conclusion, especially
>if that's somebody's intention. They talk about light and darkness. They
>talk about the mother of Jesus name starting with an M. You can't explain
>Christianity with astrology. You could say that women's names back in those
>days started with an M because M names are a derivative of the name Mother.
> You could say that the name Daughter is from the word Dawn which means
new
>beginning and there for... bla bla bla. You can twist things around and
>say this means this, and this means that, because bla bla bla. I suggest
>you guys do a little research on all of these claims that all of religious
>figures, all had mothers that were virgins and their name started with the
>letter M, instead of taking their word for it. I suggest that those that
>don't believe, read the bible for themselves a few times and decide for
themselves.
>
>I'm not vary good at this but I will try to explain the concept of light
>and darkness. Darkness denies the truth. In total darkness there is no
>truth. The light is the truth. If you were blind folded and taken in to
>a room that was void of light, you would not know the truth. If you were
>sitting at a table, you would not be able to tell me what is on the table,
>or how big the room is. You would not know if the room was full of king
>cobras or not. With light, you can see the truth. Being in darkness is
>void of the truth. Being in darkness is ignorance of the truth. The truth
>is the light. To deny the truth is to be in darkness. When people deny
>the truth, it's because they are in darkness and can't see the truth. Many
>want to keep you in the dark. many will twist the truth to deceive you
and
>keep you in the dark.
>
>God is the truth and the light. It's easy for people to knock something
>they don't really know about, especially if they've only heard half the
story.
> You don't have to take my word for it, go seek the truth and read the bible
>for your self and you decide.
>
>
>
>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"James McCloskey" <excelsm@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The answer to your last question is in the Bible,
>>
>>Now I don't know or care about this film...
>>
>>...but isn't the above kinda like stating that "You can find out whether
>>GWB has been a good president by reading his press release"?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Kim.
>
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
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| Re: TOTALLY off topic! [message #95432 is a reply to message #95343] |
Sat, 02 February 2008 20:55 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
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Senior Member |
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Wow, I found that kind of hard to stop watching, but I have stuff to do.
I'll have to watch it in sections. I made it to the 30 minute mark, then I
had to get busy.
I will say that so far I already knew about a lot of the parallel "Son of
God" myths from both my History of Western Civilisation classes, and,
amazingly, my New Testament class. But I've never seen the pagan and
astrological parallels presented in such detail. It's fascinating, and I
wish I had the time to check out all the sources listed, but alas, there are
only so many hours in a life.
I know it upsets believers to no end, and I'm sorry, but yes, there have
been other legends of virgin-birthed saviours and their resurrections for
thousands of years before the Christian one. And again, I'm sorry, but
telling someone to "read the Bible" is not going to answer any questions
about the history of it's construction, or the possible earlier outside
influences on it's content.
In case you didn't know, the narration behind the little animation about the
man in the sky who loves us is from George Carlin at one of his shows in New
York. Clearly not a fan of religion. In fact, he may actually be Satan
himself.
S
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:47a3f069$1@linux...
>
> My wife and I just finished watching the Zeitgeist Movie
> (http://zeitgeistmovie.com/).
>
> I'm still digesting it. I've already seen a lot online that refutes and
> argues with it's points. What do you folks think?
>
> Gantt
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