Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Derek, I'm ready to talk about Israel now
| Derek, I'm ready to talk about Israel now [message #55763] |
Thu, 14 July 2005 16:58  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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s
all I was saying.
>
>
>as to the rest, whats there to say when you completely
>ignore all of my points...
>
>- about germany and the possibility that it might NOT have
>been a case of complete sucky ungratefulness but a case
>of strong disagreement about the second iraq war (even more
>likely since germany wasnt exactly the only nation that
>didnt agree)? nothing.
>
>- the stuff i say that im interested in instead of
>the useless standard bullshit? israel, rabin anyone? anyone
>care to loose a word about the only man that ever effectively
>reduced terror in israel? nada.
I said I'd talk about Israel when I had time... I have posted a new thread
on that... so have at it.
>instead, theres this:
>
>
>"Neil" <>Derek: "Hello, you've reached Derek the Psychic - I know what
>>you're thinking before you even think it, how may I help you?"
>>Caller: "If you know what I'm thinking, why do you need to ask
>>how you may help me?"
>
>
>hahaha. i didnt get it, but im sure it was funny. funny is good. thanks.
You didn't get it? It was a refence to your statement "i knew
that was coming" or whatever the exact verbage was.
NeilI received a mix from a local AE a few days ago and I'm totally mind
boggled.
There are instruments and vocls placed outside the normal stereo
image...like 12" outside of the speakers.
I was wondering if any of you might know how this was done...he swears no
esoteric plugins were used in the creation of this effect.
Don
ps. I'll try to get permission to post the song so you can hear what I'm
talking about...it
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| I'm ready to talk nukes -- now [message #55795 is a reply to message #55763] |
Thu, 14 July 2005 20:36  |
wmarkwilson
Messages: 114
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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ank">1@linux...
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>
>
> >I know what you mean... however you should be aware of the hard drug
> >epidemic sweeping the nation. Oxycontin is the same as heroin.
>
> My mom and my sister, both addicted to it. It's shit.
>
>
> Crystal
> >Meth is truly an epidemic. That shit will kill you. Dumb 15 year old
> kids
> >are DYING all the time from this crap, but at the same time I hear people
>
> >saying reefer is the REAL problem. Its interesting.
>
> I never compared them I said that reefer makes you dull in the mind.
>
> It does, and you know it.
>
>
>
> >Actually I'd be in jail for beating the shit out of people without the
> >reefer.
>
> Is that why the Jamaicans are so peaceful? heh
>
>
> >> My buddy's brother worked in WTC7 and he can tell you there
> >> was none of the nonsense prattled on about in the conspiracy
> >> theories because he was there. (The CIA had an office there,
> >> so that makes it a hotbed for theories) There was 40,000 gallons
> >> of diesel in there for electricity backup in a tank near the top
> >> of WTC7; the wreckage from the towers set it off and the
> >> resulting firestorm brought down the building. That's the facts,
> >> from someone who was there. He's getting me more
> >> documentation, if you are interested.
>
>
> >I know you've said that before, however the evidence is totally straight
>
> >forward. The entire federal government had offices in that building.
The
>
> >building was demolished by controlled demolition. I would be very
> >interested in actual documentation. All the documentation I've seen is
>
> >videos from every angle with the building coming down as smooth as silk.
>
>
> Well, my firend's brother was there. I will send you what he
> gives me.
>
> DC"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:42d73aae@linux...
>> My mom and my sister, both addicted to it. It's shit.
>
> Man, that's too bad Cron..........but you know that. I'm really sorry to
> hear this.
hey man check who you're quoting...
> "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d72f42$1@linux...
>>
>> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >I know what you mean... however you should be aware of the hard drug
>> >epidemic sweeping the nation. Oxycontin is the same as heroin.
>>
>> My mom and my sister, both addicted to it. It's shit.
>>
>>
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| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now [message #55816 is a reply to message #55795] |
Thu, 14 July 2005 23:05 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
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Senior Member |
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al
>responses, and showing great restraint.
yeah, as i said, they went back to 0, so i completely
agree with you.
> See, this is the problem
>with europe. In your arrogance, because of living in a land that
>cannot envision war,
blah...
> you assume all violence is failure
i repeatedly said the exact opposite but nevermind. rant on.
> and that
>there must be a way to negotiate and finess this stuff.
>Suppose there isn't?
i did. its why im interested in this discussion.
a childish "i know 100% percent im right" attitude
isnt exactly helping, but at least in parts your
post gets over the standard stereotype attitude. it seems to
help that i repeatedly write about the things i dont
think, even though it doesnt fit into your arrogant euro pacifist drawer:
- i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
it often is the most peaceful way to go.
- i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
it often is the most peaceful way to go.
- i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
it often is the most peaceful way to go.
- i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
it often is the most peaceful way to go.
- i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
negotiated
- i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
negotiated
- i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
negotiated
- i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
negotiated
- im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family
in the US, have been there many times and like it here.
im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the
several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several
approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad
track record of deescalation in history)
- im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family
in the US, have been there many times and like it here.
im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the
several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several
approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad
track record of deescalation in history)
- im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family
in the US, have been there many times and like it here.
im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the
several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several
approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad
track record of deescalation in history)
> You haven't convinced me that Rabin could
>have pulled it off.
i didnt expect to. heck, i dont know it myself.
>Here's how the palestinians could have peace in a week:
>
>Go Ghandi on them. Sit down, inb the streets, renounce violence forever.
>Ask the world for justice. They would get their demands in a week
>or less, and if israel didn't like it, the american people would force it
>on them by witholding any more aid.
yes. too bad it wouldnt work because their religious
fanatic idiots. theres a reason why i talked so much
about the good timing of rabin. you gotta force religious
idiots into their own good. too bad the timing wasnt quite
right and a handful of steps at a time was still to
extreme of a dialog for some extremist idiots. it
wasnt even an islamic extremist idiot but a jewish one
who ultimatively destroyed it all - but it could very
well have been one.
> Why do you euros never demand a DAMN THING from the
>arabs and the palestinians, you hypocritical, arrogant fools?
oh we never demand a damn thing from the arabs?
thats funny. usually, especially where i live, its a tradition
to not ask anything from israel (obvious reason being
germanys history, were simply in no position to ask *anything*
from them). maybe you should study the people you want
to call hypocritical arrogant fools a little more before
you go ahead with it.
but ive had enough of the stereotype discussion. suit yourself
and bathe in your stupid clichees if it makes you feel
any better.
>Why do you not rise up in horror and deman
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| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now [message #55828 is a reply to message #55816] |
Wed, 15 June 2005 05:31 |
Don Nafe
Messages: 1206
Registered: July 2005
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Senior Member |
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; >
> >>up the little kids a couple of days ago while one of our guys was
handing
> >
> >>out candy to them.
> >>
> >>Anybody brave enough to say they think the same thing or have we all
cowed
> >
> >>down to international version of the old Rodney King mantra, "Can't we
all
> >
> >>just get long." Is there some plausible notion or a reason to believe
> >>that
> >
> >>eventually, if we just keep doing what we're doing, the extremist
> >>followers
> >
> >>of Bin ladin will just all of a sudden see it our way and fold up the
biz
> >
> >>and integrate into peaceful society???
> >>
> >>Dubya Mark Wilson
> >>
> >>"Neil" <OIUIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d6fc20$1@linux...
> >>>
> >>> In a nutshell...
> >>> I think if there's room & resources enough for both Israelis &
> >>> Palestinians in the region they want to live in, I think they
> >>> should quit fighting & come up with a plan. HOWEVER... this is
> >>> essentially a 3,000 year-old family feud we're looking at over
> >>> there, and my point of view may be a little too simplistic to
> >>> deal with the situation. I am not very familiar with the
> >>> condition of the agricultural situation there, but I understand
> >>> it's not the best in the world - in that case, both sides
> >>> should realize that there may not be enough resources in that
> >>> immediate area to provide for as many peple as want to live
> >>> there... that's a problem, because you can't import everything
> >>> food-wise. Israel is our ally, and we should stand by them, but
> >>> I also hold the position that some kind of solution could be
> >>> arrived at if both sides want peace more than war. OK, now
> >>> this is the part where you rebut & tell me what a narrow-minded
> >>> American I am, and how wrong my opinion is because you're
> >>> Eurosuperior to me and have a much better world view because
> >>> you read about cowboys & rodeos in Oklahoma & the drug problems
> >>> in Miami in Der Spiegel & had a US soldier live next door to
> >>> you & he was a dick, and of course, all Americans are exactly
> >>> like he was.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, the Israeli thing is VERY different than the situation we
> >>> face with radical Islam... they do NOT want peace more than
> >>> war, they only want to kill all the "infidels" and sing praise
> >>> & glory to their blood-soaked god Allah, while trying to knock
> >>> the rest of the world back into the 12th century, economically,
> >>> societally, and politically. So, knowing this, and seeing what
> >>> they've done beginning on 9/11 and continuing to this day, I
> >>> think a slightly "different" approach is what's called for.
> >>>
> >>> Neil
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>Derek, I appreciate your writings here. It saying much about where the
problems are in my thoughts too.
I think we Europeans knows that "being big" allways have made problems when
trying to be bigger than
big:-) Big with weapons in hands are often showing up these weapons as their
only "brain" when conflicts are coming.
Our worlds problems, that started the first worldwar, was already coming in
1864, when Bismarck made the big, German nation under the hegemony of
Preussen. It was the oldnordic traditions with the God Wotan (or Odin in
Norwegian) that then again was showing up in the people. It's showing well
in "To an unknown God" from 1864, from the pen of Nietzsche, one of the
greatest German philosopher and writers in those times. The feeling of being
big was setting the standard of human thinking hundred of years back in time
in those days, maybe thousands. So the next 50 years was showing up with
more and more problems, first of all in the southern region of Europe, in
Austria and Hungary, where their minorities was suppressed (as the german
minority in Austria, after the first worldwars ending, where Hitler was born
and grown up, knowing the suppression on his own body). So the fatal shot in
Sarajevo from a Serbian, that killed the Habsburger prince 28. June 1914,
was just the drop that started it all in "old" modern times.
I'm seeing exactly the same pattern in American behavings in our modern
times as it was before the first world war. American sivilians generally
don't know what a war is on their own body without their own civil war that
was overupheating from the south with South Carolina in front, when Abraham
Lincoln was being President in 1860. The American nation was splitted in two
in those days with 11 states in the southern part and the rest in the
norhern part, as far as I can remember in my readings about America. But I
think most of the Americans are knowing these badly story very well.
As far as I can understand in readings and seeing, the human feelings
haven't changed much since then in north and south, after observe what's
happening in the last two president votings.
As Dejj wrote about the observations to the indians, I can see a nation of
different nations that really have big problems
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| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now [message #55829 is a reply to message #55828] |
Fri, 15 July 2005 06:46 |
Deej [3]
Messages: 181
Registered: June 2005
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Senior Member |
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with trusting each other
after a long history-background. from their real homecountries that they
have travelled from. So maybe it's really understandable with their "shoot
first, then ask" menthality that's often showing up. The real American are
nearly nonexistencional(what a word, I don't know if it's correct written at
all) in America, as far as I can understand but I'm seeing Dejj have learned
to do some observations from them about the "new" Americans, that's just
seems to be German, French, Scandinavian etc. etc.
So, as far as I can understand, the only real Americans are the indians.
Hmm, I'm thinking too much when doing too much observations, it can be
dangerous when thinking so much too much:-) But never mind, I have had my
life, but our children and grandchildren shall take over the heredity and
environment from us in the coming world. So I mean it's well worth to do
something for them too, so maybe they can have real trust to other nations
too, for a better future.
Erling
derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:42d758ac$1@linux...
>
> "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>>So, do you think that Rabin had any more hope of success with these
>>people than did Clinton or anyone else?
>
>
> yes, absolutely. talk about it all as you will, rabin remains
> the ONLY person to ever effectively reduce the terror plague down
> there. you obviously missed the part where i stressed
> that i do acknowledge that both approaches, both the
> deescalation
> one and the brute force one can lead to success.
> thats what i wrote. nothing about cowboys or some such,
> thats only the stuff you projected into my words, because
> im a (insert yet another dumbass euro stereotype here).
>
>
> so, yes, i do acknowledge that both roads can lead to success.
> do you? it appears you dont, so whos the dogmatic type here?
>
>
>>No it doesn't, or it would have worked with Hussein, Kim Il Sung,
>>Hitler and the Branch Davidians. You are not allowing for insanity
>>and evil in the world and you are assuming that a rational person's
>>version of a more attractive situation will always be accepted.
>
>
> from a palaestinian point of view, israel is the aggressor
> that took their land. they dont have the military power,
> so they go the terror route. being the frakkingeuropacifistidiotdude that
> i am, i despise that
> just as much, so id prefer it if you dont switch between
> calling me a blind pacifist one moment and then a guy
> that doesnt criticize palaestina (and thus somewhat supports the use of
> terror),
> whatever fits the best.
>
> from their point of view, theyre actually doing exactly
> the same thing - use brute force. they dont have planes,
> so they use suicide bombers. if you were on their side,
> its what you would recommend. and if the enemy threatened to
> use more power, youd recommend that the enemy gets a
> demonstration of your force.
>
> somewhere in there lies a fundamental, unsolvable problem.
> throw in a ticking clock (islamic countries getting the bomb
> sooner or later, whether you want it or not),
> and look again at the one guy that at the very least came
> close to peace down there - ooooh it was that deescalation
> dude. what a coincidence.
>
> im not saying its the ultimate solution. i find pretending
> to have absolute solutions (a very popular practice here,
> or so it seems) rather silly. im trying to have a civiliced
> discussion about the possible different paths to a solution,
> if there is one at all. i can ackownledge and talk about
> both approaches, you seem to struggle with that part
> and fall back into europe-is-so-whatever rants, which,
> btw, are no better than george-bush-is-pure-evil bullshit.
> its kindergarden. no thanks.
>
>
>
>>And what could you possibly dislike about the present Israeli
>>leadership? Draggin settlers out by the scruff of the neck,
>>responding to the worst terrorism with measured and rational
>>responses, and showing great restraint.
>
>
> yeah, as i said, they went back to 0, so i completely
> agree with you.
>
>
>
>> See, this is the problem
>>with europe. In your arrogance, because of living in a land that
>>cannot envision war,
>
>
> blah...
>
>
>
>> you assume all violence is failure
>
>
> i repeatedly said the exact opposite but nevermind. rant on.
>
>
>
>> and that
>>there must be a way to negotiate and finess this stuff.
>>Suppose there isn't?
>
>
> i did. its why im interested in this discussion.
> a childish "i know 100% percent im right" attitude
> isnt exactly helping, but at least in parts your
> post gets over the standard stereotype attitude. it seems to
> help that i repeatedly write about the things i dont
> think, even though it doesnt fit into your arrogant euro pacifist drawer:
>
>
> - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
> it often is the most peaceful way to go.
> - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
> it often is the most peaceful way to go.
> - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
> it often is the most peaceful way to go.
> - i acknowledge the use of force as concept to end a conflict.
> it often is the most peaceful way to go.
>
> - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
> negotiated
> - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
> negotiated
> - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
> negotiated
> - i dont blindly believe that everything on this world can be
> negotiated
>
> - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family
> in the US, have been there many times and like it here.
> im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the
> several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several
> approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad
> track record of deescalation in history)
> - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family
> in the US, have been there many times and like it here.
> im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the
> several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several
> approaches, because of the fact that theres a not too bad
> track record of deescalation in history)
> - im not here because of some anti-US agenda. i have family
> in the US, have been there many times and like it here.
> im only interested in a civiliced discussion about the
> several approaches (yes i dare to believe there are several<
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| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now - bucause you are an Idiot [message #55835 is a reply to message #55829] |
Fri, 15 July 2005 08:24 |
Jef Knight
Messages: 19
Registered: July 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
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gt;
>
>>>>up the little kids a couple of days ago while one of our guys was
>>>>
>>>>
>handing
>
>
>>>>out candy to them.
>>>>
>>>>Anybody brave enough to say they think the same thing or have we all
>>>>
>>>>
>cowed
>
>
>>>>down to international version of the old Rodney King mantra, "Can't we
>>>>
>>>>
>all
>
>
>>>>just get long." Is there some plausible notion or a reason to believe
>>>>that
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>eventually, if we just keep doing what we're doing, the extremist
>>>>followers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>of Bin ladin will just all of a sudden see it our way and fold up the
>>>>
>>>>
>biz
>
>
>>>>and integrate into peaceful society???
>>>>
>>>>Dubya Mark Wilson
>>>>
>>>>"Neil" <OIUIU@OIU.com> wrote in message news:42d6fc20$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In a nutshell...
>>>>>I think if there's room & resources enough for both Israelis &
>>>>>Palestinians in the region they want to live in, I think they
>>>>>should quit fighting & come up with a plan. HOWEVER... this is
>>>>>essentially a 3,000 year-old family feud we're looking at over
>>>>>there, and my point of view may be a little too simplistic to
>>>>>deal with the situation. I am not very familiar with the
>>>>>condition of the agricultural situation there, but I understand
>>>>>it's not the best in the world - in that case, both sides
>>>>>should realize that there may not be enough resources in that
>>>>>immediate area to provide for as many peple as want to live
>>>>>there... that's a problem, because you can't import everything
>>>>>food-wise. Israel is our ally, and we should stand by them, but
>>>>>I also hold the position that some kind of solution could be
>>>>>arrived at if both sides want peace more than war. OK, now
>>>>>this is the part where you rebut & tell me what a narrow-minded
>>>>>American I am, and how wrong my opinion is because you're
>>>>>Eurosuperior to me and have a much better world view because
>>>>>you read about cowboys & rodeos in Oklahoma & the drug problems
>>>>>in Miami in Der Spiegel & had a US soldier live next door to
>>>>>you & he was a dick, and of course, all Americans are exactly
>>>>>like he was.
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, the Israeli thing is VERY different than the situation we
>>>>>face with radical Islam... they do NOT want peace more than
>>>>>war, they only want to kill all the "infidels" and sing praise
>>>>>& glory to their blood-soaked god Allah, while trying to knock
>>>>>the rest of the world back into the 12th century, economically,
>>>>>societally, and politically. So, knowing this, and seeing what
>>>>>they've done beginning on 9/11 and continuing to this day, I
>>>>>think a slightly "different" approach is what's called for.
>>>>>
>>>>>Neil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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my friends you are surely missing the point.<br>
<br>
The idea that you should keep killing "them" before they kill you is is
pretty sociopathic I think. Please remember a few important things
about the "war".<br>
<br>
Let's start with "them". The dehumanizing of others is an important
diagnostic point in the evalutation of pathological personality
disorders. Underlying this is the idea that one is not harming a
"person" but a "thing" or "non-person". It allows the ego to remain
intact while performing otherwise unthinkable actions. <br>
<br>
But who are "them"?. For the most part they are normal, everyday
famillies like yours and mine. Shop keepers, TV reparimen, gas station
attendants, secretaries....who only want to live freely, in peace,
raising their famillies and living their lives. "They" are not, for the
most part, combatants. Or they weren't before the US got their.<br>
<br>
The US has done more harm in this region, to the people and their
country, than Saddam ever could have. The US, in it's quest for
middle-east domination vis-a-vis their oil supply, has turned a
thriving people (albeit with nasty leadership) into an empoverished,
toxic waistland.<br>
<br>
And for you who can't see the forest for the trees, let me make the
fairly-fucking-clear observation that if you have a natural resourse
that someone else wants and they decide to come and get it from you by
force (the Chinese could do this) You will be labeled "insurgents" and
you wives and children will suddenly become "enemy combatants". Oh,
what, if someone invades you you're gonna sit on your fat ass and let
them take you home? No, you are gonna fight them off, you nasty
terrorist scum...or so you would be labeled in the media of the nation
invading you. (quite likely in the name of God)<br>
<br>
Wake up you collective heads of knuckle. What the hell do you think's
going on over there? It's people deffending their land, their homes and
their lives from - Foreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to
be not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the
other foot you would react no differently.<br>
<br>
One of you nazis, don't remember who, said in another thread that they
thought it was "them" who were doing the bombing, not "us". Just as a
reminder, the US has been bombing Iraq into a god-forsaken moonscape
since '89. Over 500,000 children have died since then as a direct
consequence of US military, oh-so-compassionate, action.<br>
<br>
And please knock it off with the old "well they bombed NYC so we're
retaliating." chestnut. If you take the time to read the statements of
Bin Laden you will see that he's not a nut at all. The reasons he gives
for his actions are clearly backed up by all objective histories of the
conflict in this region, A conflict that does not, as someone here
falsely assumed, go back millenia. PS, it wasn't Iraq that did the
bombing, Saddam had nothing to do with it.<br>
<br>
The Arabs and the Jews were living peacefully side-by-side well into
the 20th century. This is fully backed up by historians, check it for
yourself. It wasn't untill the US decided to create a client state in
'48 that trouble began. Hey, stoopid, how would you feel if China
decided it was going to give Native Americans an offical homeland and
they decided to hack off a piece of New York or California and kick the
citizens out, putting the Natives in charge of the state and relocating
you "terrorists" to camps in outlying regions. It's pretty fucking
obvious why the Palistinians are upset.<br>
<br>
And as for Iraq, only the dumbest of the dumb are still parroting the
solidly discredited lies the were conjured up by the US gov't to
justify this invasion. The historical fact is that the US and it's
allies have been meddling in this region since the 1800's in order to
capture the oil supplies. <br>
<br>
See where I'm going with this yet? If you substiute terms you'll see
quite clearly that they can do no differently, just as you would do no
differently in their situation. A small, defencless nation, Iraq must
do what it can to get the US out of their country. Yet you continue to
cast their self-deffence as terrorism. Shame on you psychpaths.<br>
<br>
So, should we continue to speak dispicably, idioticly, inhumanly and
pathologically of increasing and sustaining human carnage and
suffering, as you have proposed? Or is this type of thinking actually
the fuel that fires these war crimes.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
.....just a little something to thing about.....<br>
<br>
<br>
jk<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mr Simplicity wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid42d7bdb6@linux" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">My few is nail the fuckers when you can find them, and make life absolutely
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->miserable for those who are helping them.
But then you're making them mad and breeding millions more of them. The
answer to this may be exactly what GWB is wanting to do...........give the
people a say in their own lives. Of course, this pisses off the religious
zealots who want to keep the population in lockdown, the Sunni's in Iraq who
used to be in power in Iraq and now are not and the those who think we are
exporting democracy at the point of a gun because they don't like our
policies. Funny though, I sure don't see the general population of
Afghanistan clamoring for the return of the Taliban. I also don't see a mass
uprising in Iraq in favor of returning Sadaam to power.
"Don Nafe" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dnafe@magma.ca"><dnafe@magma.ca></a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:42d7acb1@linux">news:42d7acb1@linux</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"Neil" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:OIUOIU@OIU.com"><OIUOIU@OIU.com></a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:42d7521a$1@linux">news:42d7521a$1@linux</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Germaine (NOT "Jackson" lol) to your post:
For the record... I'm all for a peaceful solution; however (and
let's now bring this over to a personal level where more people
may be able to understand it rather than conceptualize it), if
it's apparent that the guy on the opposite side of the ring
from you does not want to take off his gloves, but would rather
beat the shit out of you until you are dead, you have EXACTLY
two choices:
1.) get beaten until you are dead.
2.) beat the shit out of him until he is.
What would you do?
This is pretty fucking simple to me.
Neil
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I'm in total agreement here Neil the only problem with your scenario is,
after you've done the first guy....there are 1000 more right behind him
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->and
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">half of the paying audience who came to watch this smack down is booing
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->you
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">cause they think you were a little hard on his sorry ass.
This is a religious war being waged by ignorant extremists who for
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->whatever
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">reason have decided we're the enemy and as we all know once you bring
religion into the mix common sense and rational behavior go right out the
window.
My few is nail the fuckers when you can find them, and make life
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->absolutely
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">miserable for those who are helping them.
More shit has been done in the name of God and quite frankly I think she's
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">tad pissed right about now.
Don
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"W. Mark Wilson" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wmarkwilson@verizon.net"><wmarkwilson@verizon.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Randy Newman wrote a satire (tinyurl.com/d83pb) many years ago, the
tagline
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of which, best expresses my current view on the best solution to the
unceasing problem of terrorism emanating from middle east command and
means.... which is to say "most" terrorism.
I really am there. This is THE one way to ratt out the enemy and
simultaneously send the message to any further suiters: "Step right up
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">for
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">your one-way bullet train to Allah, no purchase necessary, see fineprint
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">on
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">tip of warhead for details."
The thing that put me over the edge was the piece of human waste that
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->blew
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">up the little kids a couple of days ago while one of our guys was
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->handing
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">out candy to them.
Anybody brave enough to say they think the same thing or have we all
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->cowed
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">down to international version of the old Rodney King mantra, "Can't we
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->all
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">just get long." Is there some plausible notion or a reason to believe
that
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">eventually, if we just keep doing what we're doing, the extremist
followers
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of Bin ladin will just all of a sudden see it our way and fold up the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->biz
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">and integrate into peaceful society???
Dubya Mark Wilson
"Neil" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:OIUIU@OIU.com"><OIUIU@OIU.com></a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:42d6fc20$1@linux">news:42d6fc20$1@linux</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In a nutshell...
I think if there's room & resources enough for both Israelis &
Palestinians in the region they want to live in, I think they
should quit fighting & come up with a plan. HOWEVER... this is
essentially a 3,000 year-old family feud we're looking at over
there, and my point of view may be a little too simplistic to
deal with the situation. I am not very familiar with the
condition of the agricultural situation there, but I understand
it's not the best in the world - in that case, both sides
should realize that there may not be enough resources in that
immediate area to provide for as many peple as want to live
there... that's a problem, because you can't import everything
food-wise. Israel is our ally, and we should stand by them, but
I also hold the position that some kind of solution could be
arrived at if both sides want peace more than war. OK, now
this is the part where you rebut & tell me what a narrow-minded
American I am, and how wrong my opinion is because you're
Eurosuperior to me and have a much better world view because
you read about cowboys & rodeos in Oklahoma & the drug problems
in Miami in Der Spiegel & had a US soldier live next door to
you & he was a dick, and of course, all Americans are exactly
like he was.
BTW, the Israeli thing is VERY different than the situation we
face with radical Islam... they do NOT want peace more than
war, they only want to kill all the "infidels" and sing praise
& glory to their blood-soaked god Allah, while trying to knock
the rest of the world back into the 12th century, economically,
societally, and politically. So, knowing this, and seeing what
they've done beginning on 9/11 and continuing to this day, I
think a slightly "different" approach is what's called for.
Neil
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------040208050705000808030808--as far as I can understand but I'm seeing Dejj have learned
> to do some observations from them about the "new" Americans, that's just
> seems to be German, French, Scandinavian etc. etc.
Erling,
The *only* reason tht I posted all this stuff was that I was trying to make
two points that I don't think I made.
The first one was to try to give some small background of my life that was
relative to the idea that I had a lot invested in my hopes of how I thought
the world could be and so did these folks from Europe and all over the world
really, though most of them were from Europe and the US.
The second point was that I was absolutely floored when these things were
being observed and shown to me by people who were about as familiar with
Europeans and Americans as beings from another planet. I didn't like hearing
this. It certainly didn't fit my picture of how the world should be and what
is really scary about it it that no one but the Indians even recognized what
was going on.
I'm nothing special. Everyone has their own reasons for believing what they
believe. My post was well meant, but in retrospect, it seems sort of silly
to me and I shouldn't have even wasted my time or anyone else's time on
this.
Regards,
Deej
"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote in message news:42d7c519@linux...
> Derek, I appreciate your writings here. It saying much about where the
> problems are in my thoughts too.
>
> I think we Europeans knows that "being big" allways have made problems
when
> trying to be bigger than
> big:-) Big with weapons in hands are often showing up these weapons as
their
> only "brain" when conflicts are coming.
>
> Our worlds problems, that started the first worldwar, was already coming
in
> 1864, when Bismarck made the big, German nation under the hegemony of
> Preussen. It was the oldnordic traditions with the God Wotan (or Odin in
> Norwegian) that then again was showing up in the people. It's showing well
> in "To an unknown God" from 1864, from the pen of Nietzsche, one of the
> greatest German philosopher and writers in those times. The feeling of
being
> big was setting the standard of human thinking hundred of years back in
time
> in those days, maybe thousands. So the next 50 years was showing up with
> more and more problems, first of all in the southern region of Europe, in
> Austria and Hungary, where their minorities was suppressed (as the german
> minority in Austria, after the first worldwars ending, where Hitler was
born
> and grown up, knowing the suppression on his own body). So the fatal shot
in
> Sarajevo from a Serbian, that killed the Habsburger prince 28. June 1914,
> was just the drop that started it all in "old" modern times.
> I'm seeing exactly the same pattern in American behavings in our modern
> times as it was before the first world war. American sivilians generally
> don't know what a war is on their own body without their own civil war
that
> was overupheating from the south with South Carolina in front, when
Abraham
> Lincoln was being President in 1860. The American nation was splitted in
two
> in those days with 11 states in the southern part and the rest in the
> norhern part, as far as I can remember in my readings about America. But I
> think most of the Americans are knowing these badly story very well.
> As far as I can understand in readings and seeing, the human feelings
> haven't changed much since then in north and south, after observe what's
> happening in the last two president votings.
> As Dejj wrote about the observations to the indians, I can see a nation of
> different nations that really have big problems with trusting each other
> after a long history-background. from their real homecountries that they
> have travelled from. So maybe it's really understandable with their "shoot
> first, then ask" menthality that's often showing up. The real American are
> nearly nonexistencional(what a word, I don't know if it's correct written
at
> all) in America, as far as I can understand but I'm seeing Dejj have
learned
> to do some observations from them about the "new" Americans, that's just
> seems to be German, French, Scandinavian etc. etc.
> So, as far as I can understand, the only real Americans are the indians.
>
> Hmm, I'm thinking too much when doing too much observations, it can be
> dangerous when thinking so much too much:-) But never mind, I have had my
> life, but our children and grandchildren shall take over the heredity and
> environment from us in the coming world. So I mean it's well worth to do
> something for them too, so maybe they can have real trust to other nations
> too, for a better future.
>
> Erling
>
>
> derek" <derekvonkrogh@gmx.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:42d758ac$1@linux...
> >
> > "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
> >>So, do you think that Rabin had any more hope of success with these
> >>people than did Clinton or anyone else?
> >
> >
> > yes, absolutely. talk about it all as you will, rabin remains
> > the ONLY person to ever effectively reduce the terror plague down
> > there. you obviously missed the part where i stressed
> > that i do acknowledge that both approaches, both the
> > deescalation
> > one and the brute force one can lead to success.
> > thats what i wrote. nothing about cowboys or some such,
> > thats only the stuff you projected into my words, because
> > im a (insert yet another dumbass euro stereotype here).
> >
> >
> > so, yes, i do acknowledge that both roads can lead to success.
> > do you? it appears you dont, so whos the dogmatic type here?
> >
> >
> >>No it doesn't, or it would have worked with Hussein, Kim Il Sung,
> >>Hitler and the Branch Davidians. You are not allowing for insanity
> >>and evil in the world and you are assuming that a rational person's
> >>version of a more attractive situation will always be accepted.
> >
> >
> > from a palaestinian point of view, israel is the aggressor
> > that took their land. they dont have the military power,
> > so they go the terror route. being the frakkingeuropacifistidiotdude
that
> > i am, i despise that
> > just as much, so id prefer it if you dont switch between
> > calling me a blind pacifist one moment and then a guy
> > that doesnt criticize palaestina (and thus somewhat supports the use of
> > terror),
> > whatever fits the best.
> >
> > from their point of view, theyre actually doing exactly
> > the same thing - use brute force. they dont have planes,
> > so they use suicide bombers. if you were on their side,
> > its what you would recommend. and if the enemy threatened to
> > use more power, youd recommend that the enemy gets a
> > demonstration of your force.
> >
> > somewhere in there lies a fundamental, unsolvable problem.
> > throw in a ticking clock (islamic countries getting the bomb
> > sooner or later, whether you want it or not),
> > and look again at the one guy that at the very least came
> > close to peace down there - ooooh it was that deescalation
> > dude. what a coincidence.
> >
> > im not saying its the ultimate solution. i find pretending
> > to have absolute solutions (a very popular practice here,
> > or so it seems) rather silly. im trying to have a civiliced
> > discussion about the possible different paths to a solution,
> > if there is one at all. i can ackownledge and talk about
> > both approaches, you seem to struggle with that part
> > and fall back into europe-is-so-whatever rants, which,
> > btw, are no better than george-bush-is-pure-evil bullshit.
> > its kindergarden. no thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >>And what could you possibly dislike about the present Israeli
> >>leadership? Draggin settlers out by the scruff of the neck,
> >>responding to the worst terrorism with measured and rational
> >>responses, and showing great restraint.
> >
> >
> > yeah, as i said, they went back to 0, so i completely
> > agree with you.
> >
> >
> >
> >> See, this is the problem
> >>with europe. In your arrogance, because of living in a land that
> >>cannot envision war,
> >
> >
> > blah...
> >
> >
> >
> >> you assume all violence is failure
> >
> >
> > i repeatedly said the exact opposite but nevermind. rant on.
> >
> >
> >
> >> and that
> >>there must be a way to negotiate and finess this stuff.
> >>
|
|
|
|
| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now - bucause you are an Idiot [message #55862 is a reply to message #55835] |
Fri, 15 July 2005 12:04 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
s co-anchor.
> >>
> >> heh heh... so typical.
> >>
> >> > "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message
> >> > news:42d7fe1e$1@linux...
> >> >> Anyway, I appreciate you following up on the conversation.
> >> >>
> >> >> I dont think there was pods on the planes, or bombs or remote
control
> > or
> >> > any
> >> >> of that crap. I just think theres some type of coverup and the
only
> >> >> smoking gun is WTC7, and the insider trading.
> >> >>
> >> >> Here's a better video of it:
> >> >>
http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc7_col lapse2.mpg
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I dont really see too much
structural
> >> > damage
> >> >> to the facade.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:42d808c6@linux...
> .........not partisan at all. This would imply something totally different
> to my dislike of Dan Rather and Michael Moore......because they represent
> themselves to be unbiased documentarians and they aren't. Plain and
> simple.
Fair enough if thats what you believe. I mean personally I watched Bowling
for Columbine and I thought it was incredibly balanced.
> As much of a whacko as I think he is, if some edtorial commentator (which
> is
> what Rather became before leaving in disgrace) came out with a photo op of
> Ted Kennedy taking a roadside sobriety test, I'd doubt that too because
> I'd
> have to consider the source before all else.
I honestly never followed Dan Rather enough to notice his bias. It's
annoying as hell that all 'journalists' spin the story their own way.
> This is ample reason for me to dismiss the credibility of Rather/CBS. I
> will, however, backtrack a bit here and admit that my first assumption was
> that this story *originated* with CBS/Rather. If so, then I'll not remove
> the plate of crow from the oven. If not, then I'll might put it on the
> table
> and take a bite. Where did this story originate?
thats a difficult question to answer. Rather's only involvement was doing
the news that day and commenting "That looks like what we've all seen when a
building is destroyed by well placed dynamite" a simple observation, one
which I have shared, and one which you are willing to dismiss due to the
source.
It's typical to shoot the messenger when they dont agree with you.Hmmmm..........OK..........NPR has some credibility with me..........crow is
warming in the oven. I'll check this out and try to keep an open mind.
"justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote in message
news:42d805be$1@linux...
> I know you guys kinda shoot the messenger regarding PBS... but seriously
my
> dad is as hardcore conservative as it gets, and he's never once disagreed
> with any reporting done by PBS.
>
> "Pulling" Building 7
> A PBS documentary about the 9/11/01 attack, America Rebuilds, features an
> interview with the leaseholder of the destroyed WTC complex, Larry
> Silverstein. In it, the elderly developer makes the following statement:
>
> I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander,
> telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the
> fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the
smartest
> thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we
watched
> the building collapse.
>
> This statement seems to suggest that the FDNY decided to demolish the
> building in accordance with Silverstein's suggestion, since the phrase
"pull
> it" in this context apparently means to demolish the building. This
> interpretation is supported by a statement by a Ground Zero worker in the
> same documentary:
>
> ... we're getting ready to pull the building six.
>
> Building 6 was one of the badly damaged low-rise buildings in the WTC
> complex that had to be demolished as part of the cleanup operation.
>
> An alternative interpretation of Silverstein's statement is that "pull it"
> refers to withdrawing firefighters from the building. However, according
to
> FEMA's report there were no manual firefighting operations in Building 7,
so
> there would not have been any firefighters to "pull".
>
> That Silverstein would admit that officials intentionally demolished
> Building 7 is bizarre for a number of reasons. Silverstein Properties Inc.
> had already won an $861 million claim for the loss of the building in a
> terrorist incident. FEMA's report states that the cause of building's
> collapse was fires. Presumably FEMA and the insurance company would be
> interested in knowing if the building was instead demolished by the FDNY.
> Moreover, the logistics of rigging a skyscraper for demolition in the
space
> of a few hours would be daunting to say the least, particularly given that
> demolition teams would have to work around fires and smoke.
>
> A third explanation is less obvious but makes sense of the non-sequiturs
in
> the above explanations: perhaps Silverstein's statement was calculated to
> confuse the issue of what actually happened to Building 7. By suggesting
> that it was demolished by the FDNY as a safety measure, it provides an
> alternative to the only logical explanation -- that it was rigged for
> demolition before the attack. The absurdity of the FDNY implementing a
plan
> to "pull" Building 7 on the afternoon of 9/11/01 will escape most people,
> who neither grasp the technical complexity of engineering the controlled
> demolition of a skyscraper, nor its contradiction with FEMA's account of
the
> collapse, no
|
|
|
|
| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now - bucause you are an Idiot [message #55898 is a reply to message #55862] |
Fri, 15 July 2005 16:29 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
e civil war, at least as far as having personal feelings
> about it, and very few in the south do. We are united. I love the
> south BTW, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans. Wonderful places.
>
>
>>So maybe it's really understandable with their "shoot
>>first, then ask" menthality that's often showing up.
>
> arrgghhh! How can you say that? If we had that mentality,
> what would we have done after the first WTC bombing?
> What would we have done in the first gulf war?
>
> Why don't you recognize that it was european and UN corruption
> and collusion with Saddam that prevented their supporting us, not
> a more patient and less violent nature. Shoot first?? Do you
> think that is supportable? c'mon Erling. You guys get your
> view of america from movies, admit it.
>
>
>>So, as far as I can understand, the only real Americans are the indians.
>
> Who came from Siberia and Mongolia.
>
> Guess the real americans are bears, huh?
>
>
> DC................the ACLU will probably sue the horse.
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d844cd$1@linux...
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002382718_h orse15m.html
>
>But if they are lies, and they are, then an open mind makes little
difference.
The heat wasn't the problem, the truth was.
DC
"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>Pleazzzzzzzzze Don, Jef is heating up in his writings here but again, take
>away his heating, read his stuff with an OPEN mind, try to find out real
>documents about his writings, not only what some of you American wish to
>hear. Go out and study his facts, if it's true or not, before serving that
>it's all lies. I think you will be really shocked to find out that Jefs
>writings here is very correct. You see, I can stand behind him with the
same
>observations in documentations. But to fight with windmills can be very
>frustated, so I think it's really understandable when Jef is heating up
>here.
>
>erlilo
>
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d808a6$1@linux...
>>
>> First, let me say that, you acting superior while posting a
>> pack of lies is bad enough, but, your calling people names is
>> unacceptable.
>>
>>
>> "Jef Knight" <"Jef Knight"> wrote:
>>
>>>The idea that you should keep killing "them" before they kill you is is
>>
>>>pretty sociopathic I think.
>>
>> Thanks for the analysis. Sure it isn't bipolar, or perhaps paranoid
>> schizophrenic, or maybe just ADD?
>>
>> Them is the enemy, not the shopkeepers. The suicide bombers,
>> the foreign terrorists, the state sponsors of terrorism. They are
>> knowable, and they are killable.
>>
>>
>>>Please remember a few important things about
>>>the "war".
>>
>> Oh, this will be good. I know it will be real informed with "so"
>> "many" "ironic" "quotes"....
>>
>>
>>>Let's start with "them". The dehumanizing of others is an important
>>>diagnostic point in the evalutation of pathological personality
>>>disorders. Underlying this is the idea that one is not harming a
>>>"person" but a "thing" or "non-person". It allows the ego to remain
>>>intact while performing otherwise unthinkable actions.
>>
>>
>> You obviously do not know any soldiers. Despite understanding
>> that the ghouls must be killed, and understanding that they are
>> indeed, ghouls, our soldiers pay a terrible price for doing the
>> unthinkable, precisely because they are not able to completely
>> depersonalize them. Only to have you call them pathological...
>>
>> Pathetic. And of course, the actions of the ghouls are not
>> pathogical in Jef-land at all, They are understandable, maybe even
>> noble! Maybe they are even like the minutmen!
>>
>>
>>>But who are "them"?. For the most part they are normal, everyday
>>>famillies like yours and mine. Shop keepers, TV reparimen, gas station
>>>attendants, secretaries....who only want to live freely, in peace,
>>
>> BWAA HAHH AHHA HHHHAAAA!
>>
>> Oh that's good. Do you screenwrite for Michael Moore?
>>
>> They are foreigners who come into places like Fallujah and kill
>> anyone who looks like they may desire freedom, take over the
>> neighborhood, and rule by terror. Iraqis are even rising up and
>> killing them now. They are also diehard baathists who want a
>> return to the good ole days of rape rooms and plastic shredders.
>>
>>
>>>The US has done more harm in this region, to the people and their
>>>country, than Saddam ever could have.
>>
>> BULLSHIT. I guess you forgot about the entire familes, little
>> kids and all, buried in the 300,000 person mass graves.
>>
>> I get it, you are a Saddam supporter. Ok, at least we know where
>> you are coming from now. When you tell egregious lies like the
>> one above, you lose all credibility.
>>
>>>The US, in it's quest for
>>>middle-east domination vis-a-vis their oil supply, has turned a thriving
>>
>>>people (albeit with nasty leadership) into an empoverished, toxic
>>>waistland.
>>
>> This is so stupid and dishonest it isn't even worth rebutting.
>>
>> It's too easy. OIl? We didn't steal their oil in 91 and we are not
>> doing so now. Liar.
>>
>>
>>>And for you who can't see the forest for the trees, let me make the
>>>fairly-fucking-clear observation that if you have a natural resourse
>>>that someone else wants and they decide to come and get it from you by
>>>force (the Chinese could do this) You will be labeled "insurgents" and
>>>you wives and children will suddenly become "enemy combatants".
>>
>>
>> Well, it seems that "foreigners" and "former baathists" otherwise
>> known as "corrupt" "murdering" "shitheads" who want to keep
>> the old regime in place, might qualify as "insurgents", especially
>> since they prefer the regime of the old murdering, raping, corrupt
>> leader to actual democracy.
>>
>> Jef, you have very little ethics do you?
>>
>>
>>>Wake up you collective heads of knuckle. What the hell do you think's
>>>going on over there? It's people deffending their land, their homes and
>>
>>>their lives from - Foreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to
be
>>
>>>not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the
>>>other foot you would react no differently.
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately it's all "not so fucking subtle" lies. The folks with the
>> homes, with the families and shops and businesses all had purple
>> fingers a few months ago, and have more character than "you"
>> will ever "dream" of having.
>>
>>
>>&g
|
|
|
|
| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now - bucause you are an Idiot [message #55901 is a reply to message #55898] |
Fri, 15 July 2005 16:43 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
nister Confirms CIA Involvement in 9/11"
Or this guy:
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408 r.htm
"A former Bush team member during his first administration is now voicing
serious doubts about the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9-11. Former
chief economist for the Department of Labor during President George W. Bush's
first term Morgan Reynolds comments that the official story about the collapse
of the WTC is "bogus""
Why don't you watch the videos?
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>
>"Wes" <wexus6@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Yes, the theory that the government fed to Americans is the LEAST reasonable
>>explanation to the events of 9/11. I and those in the 9/11 truth movement
>>want an independent commission formed so we can get some real answers.
What
>>does the Bush administration have to fear from the truth?
>>-Wes
>
>Whew. Ok, whatever you say man. This is how we all sounded
>when JFK was killed. Now we are a lot calmer. You will be too
>someday. Conspiracies are fun though, aren't they?
>
>have a great weekend
>
>DC
>
>I don't know who it is you are casting as Quixote here, you, me,
or Jef.
I suppose all three could be true in one way or another.
DC
"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>As said about your writing to Jef in "I'm ready to talk nukes": It can be
>really frustated to fight against windmills;-)
>
>Take care
>
>Erling
>
>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d7fc82$1@linux...
>>
>> "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm seeing exactly the same pattern in American behavings in our modern
>>
>>>times as it was before the first world war. American sivilians generally
>>
>>>don't know what a war is on their own body
>>
>>
>> We do now. Remember 911? Pearl Harbor? Everyone knows
>> someone who lost someone in either Vietnam, Korea, or WWII.
>>
>> We do not have a romantic picture of war. That is a myth.
>>
>>
>>>As far as I can understand in readings and seeing, the human feelings
>>>haven't changed much since then in north and south, after observe what's
>>
>>>happening in the last two president votings.
>>
>> This is simply not the case. I am a northerner who has lived and
>> travelled in the south and I can tell you that no one in the north
>> cares about the civil war, at least as far as having personal feelings
>> about it, and very few in the south do. We are united. I love the
>> south BTW, Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans. Wonderful places.
>>
>>
>>>So maybe it's really understandable with their "shoot
>>>first, then ask" menthality that's often showing up.
>>
>> arrgghhh! How can you say that? If we had that mentality,
>> what would we have done after the first WTC bombing?
>> What would we have done in the first gulf war?
>>
>> Why don't you recognize that it was european and UN corruption
>> and collusion with Saddam that prevented their supporting us, not
>> a more patient and less violent nature. Shoot first?? Do you
>> think that is supportable? c'mon Erling. You guys get your
>> view of america from movies, admit it.
>>
>>
>>>So, as far as I can understand, the only real Americans are the indians.
>>
>> Who came from Siberia and Mongolia.
>>
>> Guess the real americans are bears, huh?
>>
>>
>> DC
>
>.....hmmm, these russian women....hmmm
erlilo
"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:42d7f5b0@linux...
> http://www.izpitera.ru/lj/tetka.swf
>
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
> news:42d7f51c@linux...
>> Thank Aaron for this.
>>
>> ;o)
>>
>>
>
>....i know, i know i'm being unfair...it only happened to 2 guys i
know...geeze, more proof of what a drunk jackass i am...crap. ooh,
ooh i mean FOUR...
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:47:10 +0200, "erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>....hmmm, these russian women....hmmm
>
>erlilo
>
>"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> skrev i en meddelelse
>news:42d7f5b0@linux...
>> http://www.izpitera.ru/lj/tetka.swf
>>
>>
>> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
>> news:42d7f51c@linux...
>>> Thank Aaron for this.
>>>
>>> ;o)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>"ouch"...only if your a duck, chicken or a rabbit. after all, they
didn't say the guy was hung like a...well...you know...mr. ed. or
maybe the horse had a headache and the guy wouldn't take no for a
answer.
On 16 Jul 2005 09:20:45 +1000, "DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote:
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002382718_h orse15m.html
>Does chuck have a different email address.
I have emailed him asking for another copy of Eventiter.
I am a registered user and need another copy cause my dog ate mine...
He hasn't returned the email so I was wondering...
Thanks,I was trying to get contact again in the late eighties
> with her and talked with her brother on the phone just to get the
knowings,
> she was killed in a carcrash in the seventies.
Wow...........sorry to hear that Erling. That's sad stuff. What is it with
these Canadian girls? My girl was from Simcoe Ontario. We were together for
over two years. Of course, when we went down to Mexico she stayed at the
Canadian posada and I stayed at the American one.
;oP
"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote in message news:42d846c8@linux...
> I know your post was well meant, a bad guy would never write about his
life
> your way as often showing up here. But as I can see it, if you're
observing
> these conflicts in your mixed up homecountry, how can your land trying to
> make peace in the world without understandings at all when observing these
> conflicts in metaold roots they have taking with them from their old
> homecountries into America? They have the roots of nations-conflicts,
> poorness(don't know if it's a correct word) and wars from all over Europe
> and other parts of the world deeply anchored in their body and blood
> allready when emigrated to America with theyr hopes for the future.
>
> By the way, I was nearly emigrated to Canada, was in love with a wonderful
> teenager I met in North Vancouver in '60 with norwegian roots and wrote
with
> her for three years. But I wasn't enough in love to travel when starting
up
> with my guitar:-) I was trying to get contact again in the late eighties
> with her and talked with her brother on the phone just to get the
knowings,
> she was killed in a carcrash in the seventies.
>
> erlilo
>
> "Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:42d7dbae@linux..
|
|
|
|
| Re: I'm ready to talk nukes -- now - bucause you are an Idiot [message #55926 is a reply to message #55901] |
Sat, 16 July 2005 01:40 |
erlilo
Messages: 405
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
oing to respond in kind.
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, I do not support the use of nuclear arms in this war at this
>>> point. Should your prediction about creating millions of new
>>> terrorists by our actions come true, all bets are off. We will live
>>> in freedom, not under the mullahs.
>>>
>>> The funny thing is that in your future, you get killed anyway, for
>>> some obscure offense against the koran, just like Theo Van Gogh
>>> did.
>>>
>>> You really ought to apologize to the group for the names you have
>>> called people.
>>>
>>> DC
>>
>>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------010800070509010309060203
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've heard it said before, usually by United Statesians, that these
verifiable facts are non-the-less lies. I have not, however, seen anyone
actually put forth proof that what I am saying is incorrect.
So, DC, for you to say that I am lying you must put for some evidence
for your claim. Prove it!
jef
DC wrote:
>But if they are lies, and they are, then an open mind makes little
>difference.
>
>The heat wasn't the problem, the truth was.
>
>DC
>
>
>
>"erlilo" <erlilo@online.no> wrote:
>
>
>>Pleazzzzzzzzze Don, Jef is heating up in his writings here but again, take
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>away his heating, read his stuff with an OPEN mind, try to find out real
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>documents about his writings, not only what some of you American wish to
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>hear. Go out and study his facts, if it's true or not, before serving that
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>it's all lies. I think you will be really shocked to find out that Jefs
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>writings here is very correct. You see, I can stand behind him with the
>>
>>
>same
>
>
>>observations in documentations. But to fight with windmills can be very
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>frustated, so I think it's really understandable when Jef is heating up
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>here.
>>
>>erlilo
>>
>>"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:42d808a6$1@linux...
>>
>>
>>>First, let me say that, you acting superior while posting a
>>>pack of lies is bad enough, but, your calling people names is
>>>unacceptable.
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jef Knight" <"Jef Knight"> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The idea that you should keep killing "them" before they kill you is is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>pretty sociopathic I think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Thanks for the analysis. Sure it isn't bipolar, or perhaps paranoid
>>>schizophrenic, or maybe just ADD?
>>>
>>>Them is the enemy, not the shopkeepers. The suicide bombers,
>>>the foreign terrorists, the state sponsors of terrorism. They are
>>>knowable, and they are killable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Please remember a few important things about
>>>>the "war".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Oh, this will be good. I know it will be real informed with "so"
>>>"many" "ironic" "quotes"....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Let's start with "them". The dehumanizing of others is an important
>>>>diagnostic point in the evalutation of pathological personality
>>>>disorders. Underlying this is the idea that one is not harming a
>>>>"person" but a "thing" or "non-person". It allows the ego to remain
>>>>intact while performing otherwise unthinkable actions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>You obviously do not know any soldiers. Despite understanding
>>>that the ghouls must be killed, and understanding that they are
>>>indeed, ghouls, our soldiers pay a terrible price for doing the
>>>unthinkable, precisely because they are not able to completely
>>>depersonalize them. Only to have you call them pathological...
>>>
>>>Pathetic. And of course, the actions of the ghouls are not
>>>pathogical in Jef-land at all, They are understandable, maybe even
>>>noble! Maybe they are even like the minutmen!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>But who are "them"?. For the most part they are normal, everyday
>>>>famillies like yours and mine. Shop keepers, TV reparimen, gas station
>>>>attendants, secretaries....who only want to live freely, in peace,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>BWAA HAHH AHHA HHHHAAAA!
>>>
>>>Oh that's good. Do you screenwrite for Michael Moore?
>>>
>>>They are foreigners who come into places like Fallujah and kill
>>>anyone who looks like they may desire freedom, take over the
>>>neighborhood, and rule by terror. Iraqis are even rising up and
>>>killing them now. They are also diehard baathists who want a
>>>return to the good ole days of rape rooms and plastic shredders.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The US has done more harm in this region, to the people and their
>>>>country, than Saddam ever could have.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>BULLSHIT. I guess you forgot about the entire familes, little
>>>kids and all, buried in the 300,000 person mass graves.
>>>
>>>I get it, you are a Saddam supporter. Ok, at least we know where
>>>you are coming from now. When you tell egregious lies like the
>>>one above, you lose all credibility.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The US, in it's quest for
>>>>middle-east domination vis-a-vis their oil supply, has turned a thriving
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>people (albeit with nasty leadership) into an empoverished, toxic
>>>>waistland.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>This is so stupid and dishonest it isn't even worth rebutting.
>>>
>>>It's too easy. OIl? We didn't steal their oil in 91 and we are not
>>>doing so now. Liar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And for you who can't see the forest for the trees, let me make the
>>>>fairly-fucking-clear observation that if you have a natural resourse
>>>>that someone else wants and they decide to come and get it from you by
>>>>force (the Chinese could do this) You will be labeled "insurgents" and
>>>>you wives and children will suddenly become "enemy combatants".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Well, it seems that "foreigners" and "former baathists" otherwise
>>>known as "corrupt" "murdering" "shitheads" who want to keep
>>>the old regime in place, might qualify as "insurgents", especially
>>>since they prefer the regime of the old murdering, raping, corrupt
>>>leader to actual democracy.
>>>
>>>Jef, you have very little ethics do you?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Wake up you collective heads of knuckle. What the hell do you think's
>>>>going on over there? It's people deffending their land, their homes and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>their lives from - Foreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to
>>>>
>>>>
>be
>
>
>>>>not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the
>>>>other foot you would react no differently.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Unfortunately it's all "not so fucking subtle" lies. The folks with the
>>>homes, with the families and shops and businesses all had purple
>>>fingers a few months ago, and have more character than "you"
>>>will ever "dream" of having.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>One of you nazis, don't remember who, said in another thread that they
>>>>thought it was "them" who were doing the bombing, not "us". Just as a
>>>>reminder, the US has been bombing Iraq into a god-forsaken moonscape
>>>>since '89. Over 500,000 children have died since then as a direct
>>>>consequence of US military, oh-so-compassionate, action.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>More lies. Those deaths are a result of your friend Saddam using
>>>oil-for-food money to build palaces instead of food for his own
>>>people. His trial is about to start, why don't you watch it and wee
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bullshit Detection 101 [message #55927 is a reply to message #55901] |
Sat, 16 July 2005 06:17 |
Jef Knight
Messages: 19
Registered: July 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
p.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And please knock it off with the old "well they bombed NYC so we're
>>>>retaliating." chestnut. If you take the time to read the statements of
>>>>Bin Laden you will see that he's not a nut at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Why am I not surprised that you like him as much as you like Saddam?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Arabs and the Jews were living peacefully side-by-side well into the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>20th century. This is fully backed up by historians, check it for
>>>>yourself. It wasn't untill the US decided to create a client state in
>>>>'48 that trouble began. Hey, stoopid, how would you feel if China
>>>>decided it was going to give Native Americans an offical homeland and
>>>>they decided to hack off a piece of New York or California and kick the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is as inaccurate as it is simple minded.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>See where I'm going with this yet?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Yeah, stright to lefty-lobotomy land. And you are calling others idiots
>>>and psychopaths... Amazing.
>>>
>>>I am not going to respond in kind.
>>>
>>>
>>>BTW, I do not support the use of nuclear arms in this war at this
>>>point. Should your prediction about creating millions of new
>>>terrorists by our actions come true, all bets are off. We will live
>>>in freedom, not under the mullahs.
>>>
>>>The funny thing is that in your future, you get killed anyway, for
>>>some obscure offense against the koran, just like Theo Van Gogh
>>>did.
>>>
>>>You really ought to apologize to the group for the names you have
>>>called people.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--------------010800070509010309060203
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
I've heard it said before, usually by United Statesians, that these
verifiable facts are non-the-less lies. I have not, however, seen
anyone actually put forth proof that what I am saying is incorrect.<br>
<br>
So, DC, for you to say that I am lying you must put for some evidence
for your claim. Prove it!<br>
<br>
jef<br>
<br>
<br>
DC wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid42d84a0d$1@linux" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">But if they are lies, and they are, then an open mind makes little
difference.
The heat wasn't the problem, the truth was.
DC
"erlilo" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:erlilo@online.no"><erlilo@online.no></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Pleazzzzzzzzze Don, Jef is heating up in his writings here but again, take
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">away his heating, read his stuff with an OPEN mind, try to find out real
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">documents about his writings, not only what some of you American wish to
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">hear. Go out and study his facts, if it's true or not, before serving that
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">it's all lies. I think you will be really shocked to find out that Jefs
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">writings here is very correct. You see, I can stand behind him with the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->same
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">observations in documentations. But to fight with windmills can be very
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">frustated, so I think it's really understandable when Jef is heating up
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">here.
erlilo
"DC" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dcicchetti@urs2.net"><dcicchetti@urs2.net></a> skrev i en meddelelse <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:42d808a6$1@linux">news:42d808a6$1@linux</a>...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">First, let me say that, you acting superior while posting a
pack of lies is bad enough, but, your calling people names is
unacceptable.
"Jef Knight" <"Jef Knight"> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The idea that you should keep killing "them" before they kill you is is
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">pretty sociopathic I think.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Thanks for the analysis. Sure it isn't bipolar, or perhaps paranoid
schizophrenic, or maybe just ADD?
Them is the enemy, not the shopkeepers. The suicide bombers,
the foreign terrorists, the state sponsors of terrorism. They are
knowable, and they are killable.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Please remember a few important things about
the "war".
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Oh, this will be good. I know it will be real informed with "so"
"many" "ironic" "quotes"....
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Let's start with "them". The dehumanizing of others is an important
diagnostic point in the evalutation of pathological personality
disorders. Underlying this is the idea that one is not harming a
"person" but a "thing" or "non-person". It allows the ego to remain
intact while performing otherwise unthinkable actions.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
You obviously do not know any soldiers. Despite understanding
that the ghouls must be killed, and understanding that they are
indeed, ghouls, our soldiers pay a terrible price for doing the
unthinkable, precisely because they are not able to completely
depersonalize them. Only to have you call them pathological...
Pathetic. And of course, the actions of the ghouls are not
pathogical in Jef-land at all, They are understandable, maybe even
noble! Maybe they are even like the minutmen!
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">But who are "them"?. For the most part they are normal, everyday
famillies like yours and mine. Shop keepers, TV reparimen, gas station
attendants, secretaries....who only want to live freely, in peace,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">BWAA HAHH AHHA HHHHAAAA!
Oh that's good. Do you screenwrite for Michael Moore?
They are foreigners who come into places like Fallujah and kill
anyone who looks like they may desire freedom, take over the
neighborhood, and rule by terror. Iraqis are even rising up and
killing them now. They are also diehard baathists who want a
return to the good ole days of rape rooms and plastic shredders.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The US has done more harm in this region, to the people and their
country, than Saddam ever could have.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">BULLSHIT. I guess you forgot about the entire familes, little
kids and all, buried in the 300,000 person mass graves.
I get it, you are a Saddam supporter. Ok, at least we know where
you are coming from now. When you tell egregious lies like the
one above, you lose all credibility.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The US, in it's quest for
middle-east domination vis-a-vis their oil supply, has turned a thriving
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">people (albeit with nasty leadership) into an empoverished, toxic
waistland.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">This is so stupid and dishonest it isn't even worth rebutting.
It's too easy. OIl? We didn't steal their oil in 91 and we are not
doing so now. Liar.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And for you who can't see the forest for the trees, let me make the
fairly-fucking-clear observation that if you have a natural resourse
that someone else wants and they decide to come and get it from you by
force (the Chinese could do this) You will be labeled "insurgents" and
you wives and children will suddenly become "enemy combatants".
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Well, it seems that "foreigners" and "former baathists" otherwise
known as "corrupt" "murdering" "shitheads" who want to keep
the old regime in place, might qualify as "insurgents", especially
since they prefer the regime of the old murdering, raping, corrupt
leader to actual democracy.
Jef, you have very little ethics do you?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Wake up you collective heads of knuckle. What the hell do you think's
going on over there? It's people deffending their land, their homes and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">their lives from - Foreign Invaders! Fuck me, how dumb do you have to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->be
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">not to get this not-to-fucking-subtle point? If the shoe were on the
other foot you would react no differently.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Unfortunately it's all "not so fucking subtle" lies. The folks with the
homes, with the families and shops and businesses all had purple
fingers a few months ago, and have more character than "you"
will ever "dream" of having.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">One of you nazis, don't remember who, said in another thread that they
thought it was "them" who were doing the bombing, not "us". Just as a
reminder, the US has been bombing Iraq into a god-forsaken moonscape
since '89. Over 500,000 children have died since then as a direct
consequence of US military, oh-so-compassionate, action.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
More lies. Those deaths are a result of your friend Saddam using
oil-for-food money to build palaces instead of food for his own
people. His trial is about to start, why don't you watch it and weep.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And please knock it off with the old "well they bombed NYC so we're
retaliating." chestnut. If you take the time to read the statements of
Bin Laden you will see that he's not a nut at all.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Why am I not surprised that you like him as much as you like Saddam?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The Arabs and the Jews were living peacefully side-by-side well into the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">20th century. This is fully backed up by historians, check it for
yourself. It wasn't untill the US decided to create a client state in
'48 that trouble began. Hey, stoopid, how would you feel if China
decided it was going to give Native Americans an offical homeland and
they decided to hack off a piece of New York or California and kick the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
This is as inaccurate as it is simple minded.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">See where I'm going with this yet?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Yeah, stright to lefty-lobotomy land. And you are calling others idiots
and psychopaths... Amazing.
I am not going to respond in kind.
BTW, I do not support the use of nuclear arms in this war at this
point. Should your prediction about creating millions of new
terrorists by our actions come true, all bets are off. We will live
in freedom, not under the mullahs.
The funny thing is that in your future, you get killed anyway, for
some obscure offense against the koran, just like Theo Van Gogh
did.
You really ought to apologize to the group for the names you have
called people.
DC
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>
--------------010800070509010309060203--I have it on unimpeachable authority that the eight card limit is a software
switch.
Ten cards have been successfully tested by a gnome.
Regards,
El Miguel
"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:42d50996$1@linux...
>
> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >i think 8 has been the most i've heard using an expansion chassis.
>
> I'm quite sure that Paris simply cannot run more than 8 cards.
>
> I beleive that you could, if you had appropriate hardware (ie. expansion
> chassis's etc) run as many as you like, subject to bandwidth limitations,
> but Paris was only built to run 8 cards, meaning 128 tracks.
>
> Find me the dude who can pick more than 128 instruments playing
simultaneously
> and I'll buy you a beer. ;o)
>
> Cheers,
> Kim.who has paris in alaska???
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:02:30 -0600, "Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:
>I have it on unimpeachable authority that the eight card limit is a software
>switch.
>
>Ten cards have been successfully tested by a gnome.
>
>Regards,
>
>El Miguel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:42d50996$1@linux...
>>
>> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >i think 8 has been the most i've heard using an expansion chassis.
>>
>> I'm quite sure that Paris simply cannot run more than 8 cards.
>>
>> I beleive that you could, if you had appropriate hardware (ie. expansion
>> chassis's etc) run as many as you like, subject to bandwidth limitations,
>> but Paris was only built to run 8 cards, meaning 128 tracks.
>>
>> Find me the dude who can pick more than 128 instruments playing
>simultaneously
>> and I'll buy you a beer. ;o)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kim.
>Hi fellas,
Is this a Ensoniq site or politik site.
We schould talk about music not about politik or bombs.
Music is universal language and make no difference between poeple and zo...
Let''s keep it this way...I bet LaMont knows this cat...
El Miguel
"TC" <tc@spammetodeathyoubastards.org> wrote in message
news:42c946b8@linux...
> Hey, I just saw that same desk he's got at Staples.. I was going to buy
it,
> but I picked up this one on sale instead at Staples for $130 (CDN):
> http://store1.yimg.com/I/meritline_1849_145624040
>
> The area under the monitor fits rack gear perfectly, you can
> fit a full length 2 space item on each side, and 2 1/2 space rack
> items stacked in the center.. I've got the rest of my rack gear and a Mec
> underneath, along with 2 computer towers.. damn I feel organized now..
>
> Cheers,
>
> TC
>
>
>
> justcron wrote:
> > http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0507/03/D04-235568.htm
> >
> >Don Morrell...........but he's in Anchorage.
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6n7id1p2s434fdk7himmo3f9e76bcge300@4ax.com...
> who has paris in alaska???
>
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:02:30 -0600, "Miguel Vigil" <nospam@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have it on unimpeachable authority that the eight card limit is a
software
> >switch.
> >
> >Ten cards have been successfully tested by a gnome.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >El Miguel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >"Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d50996$1@linux...
> >>
> >> rick <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >i think 8 has been the most i've heard using an expansion chassis.
> >>
> >> I'm quite sure that Paris simply cannot run more than 8 cards.
> >>
> >> I beleive that you could, if you had appropriate hardware (ie.
expansion
> >> chassis's etc) run as many as you like, subject to bandwidth
limitations,
> >> but Paris was only built to run 8 cards, meaning 128 tracks.
> >>
> >> Find me the dude who can pick more than 128 instruments playing
> >simultaneously
> >> and I'll buy you a beer. ;o)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Kim.
> >
>Gotta say that's as good a historcal tale as any I've read lately. Sounds
familiar though.
;-)
Don
"rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:glvfd1li9q5nog58jid866q296c1pn0kq6@4ax.com...
> where do you guys find the time and desire to bang out such long
> posts? i gotta stop now...fingers tired.
>
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:20:10 -0400, "Jef Knight" <"Jef Knight"> wrote:
>
>>I don't know if you cats have seen this but it's pretty humourous so
>>here ya go....
>>
>>jef
>>
>>
>>
>>Last Updated: April 5, 1994
>>
>>
>> The Book of Creation
>>
>>
>> Chapter 1
>>
>>1
>> In the beginning God created Dates.
>>2
>> And the date was Monday, July 4, 4004 BC.
>>3
>> And God said, let there be light; and there was light. And when
>> there was Light, God saw the Date, that it was Monday, and he got
>> down to work; for verily, he had a Big Job to do.
>>4
>> And God made pottery shards and Silurian mollusks and pre-Cambrian
>> limestone strata; and flints and Jurassic Mastodon tusks and
>> Picanthopus erectus skulls and Cretaceous placentals made he; and
>> those cave paintings at Lasceaux. And that was that, for the first
>> Work Day.
>>5
>> And God saw that he had made many wondrous things, but that he had
>> not wherein to put it all. And God said, Let the heavens be divided
>> from the earth; and let us bury all of these Things which we have
>> made in the earth; but not too deep.
>>6
>> And God buried all the Things which he had made, and that was that.
>>7
>> And the morning and the evening and the overtime were Tuesday.
>>8
>> And God said, Let there be water; and let the dry land appear; and
>> that was that.
>>9
>> And God called the dry land Real Estate; and the water called he the
>> Sea. And in the land and beneath it put he crude oil, grades one
>> through six; and natural gas put he thereunder, and prehistoric
>> carboniferous forests yielding anthracite and other ligneous matter;
>> and all these called he Resources; and he made them Abundant.
>>10
>> And likewise all that was in the sea, even unto two hundred miles
>> from the dry land, called he resources; all that was therein, like
>> manganese nodules, for instance.
>>11
>> And the morning unto the evening had been a long day; which he
>> called Wednesday.
>>12
>> And God said, Let the earth bring forth abundantly every moving
>> creature I can think of, with or without backbones, with or without
>> wings or feet, or fins or claws, vestigial limbs and all, right now;
>> and let each one be of a separate species. For lo, I can make
>> whatsoever I like, whensoever I like.
>>13
>> And the earth brought forth abundantly all creatures, great and
>> small, with and without backbones, with and without wings and feet
>> and fins and claws, vestigial limbs and all, from bugs to
>> brontosauruses.
>>14
>> But God blessed
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bullshit Detection 201 [message #55937 is a reply to message #55927] |
Sat, 16 July 2005 09:33 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
es these doctrines
are proven bankrupt by the evidence it matters little,
because such beliefs are near religious in nature
— a secular creed that will brook no empirical
challenge.
These articles of faith apparently fill a deep psychological
need for millions of Westerners, guilty over their privilege,
free to do anything without constraints or repercussions,
and convinced that their own culture has made them
spectacularly rich and leisured only at the expense
of others.
So it is not true to say that Western civilization is at war
against Dark Age Islamism. Properly speaking, only
about half of the West is involved, the shrinking
segment that still sees human nature as unchanging
and history as therefore replete with a rich heritage
of tragic lessons.
This is nothing new.
The spectacular inroads of the Ottomans in the16th
century to the gates of Vienna and the shores of the
Adriatic were not explainable according to Istanbul’s
vibrant economy, impressive universities, or widespread
scientific dynamism and literacy, or even a technologically
superior and richly equipped military. Instead, a beleaguered
Europe was trisected by squabbling Protestants, Catholics,
and Orthodox Christians — as a wealthy northwest, with
Atlantic seaports, ignored the besieged Mediterranean
and Balkans and turned its attention to getting rich in
the New World.
So too we are divided over two antithetical views of the
evolving West — Europe at odds with America, red and
blue states in intellectual and spiritual divergence,
the tragic view resisting the creeping therapeutic
mindset.
These interior splits largely explain why creepy killers
from the Dark Ages, parasitic on the West from their
weapons to communications, are still plaguing us
four years after their initial surprise attack.
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars/But in
ourselves, that we are underlings."
— Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the
Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is victorhanson.com.I'm with you man -- Chas.
On 17 Jul 2005 01:10:22 +1000, "ulfiyya" <ulfiyya@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hi fellas,
>Is this a Ensoniq site or politik site.
>We schould talk about music not about politik or bombs.
>Music is universal language and make no difference between poeple and zo...
>Let''s keep it this way...i'm sorry but i can't stand the political BS on this part of the PARIS
group.
if it could stay in the general section i would be much less distracted and
sickened.
at least i know i can expect such unbelievable BS in the general section.
i don't mean to offend anyone on any side of the "debate".
can we just stay on topic?
thanks!
jeremy....and you want to know why your back hurts...
;p
El Miguel
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:42d814bb$1@linux...
> Closest I've ever come to being able to control what a woman does.
>
> ;o)
>
> "rick" <parnell68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cuvfd154m65nmboued0lrhk181gvqprrle@4ax.com...
> > damn, if she just doesn't remind me of a girl i never knew. i do
> > remember bouncing like that during a couple of mult-story falls as a
> > carpenter...but eventually i hit the ground and stopped bouncing.
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:45:11 -0600, "Mr Simplicity"
> > <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.izpitera.ru/lj/tetka.swf
> > >
> > >
> > >"Mr Simplicity" <animix_spamless_@animas.net> wrote in message
> > >news:42d7f51c@linux...
> > >> Thank Aaron for this.
> > >>
> > >> ;o)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>Stanford????????????.........He's from Stanford????????!!!!!!!!!.......sorry
dude, unless he's from Berkeley, it ain't gonna fly.
Now I'm gonna go fire up the studio and get back to feeling guilty
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d936e5$1@linux...
>
> "Jef Knight" <"Jef Knight"> wrote:
> >
> >I've heard it said before, usually by United Statesians, that these
> >verifiable facts are non-the-less lies. I have not, however, seen anyone
>
> >actually put forth proof that what I am saying is incorrect.
> >
> >So, DC, for you to say that I am lying you must put for some evidence
> >for your claim. Prove it!
> >
> >jef
>
>
> Here you go,
>
> July 15, 2005, 8:04 a.m.
> Our Wars Over the War
> "The fault is not in our stars."
>
> Victor Davis Hanson
>
> Ever since September 11, there has been an alternative narrative
> about this war embraced by the Left. In this mythology, the attack
> on September 11 had in some vague way something to do with
> American culpability.
>
> Either we were unfairly tilting toward Israel, or had been unkind
> to Muslims. Perhaps, as Sen. Patty Murray intoned, we needed
> to match the good works of bin Laden to capture the hearts
> and minds of Muslim peoples.
>
> The fable continues that the United States itself was united
> after the attack even during its preparations to retaliate in
> Afghanistan. But then George Bush took his eye off the ball.
> He let bin Laden escape, and worst of all, unilaterally and
> preemptively, went into secular Iraq - an unnecessary war
> for oil, hegemony, Israel, or Halliburton, something in
> Ted Kennedy's words "cooked up in Texas."
>
> In any case, there was no connection between al Qaeda
> and Saddam, and thus terrorists only arrived in Iraq after
> we did.
>
> That tale goes on. The Iraqi fiasco is now a hopeless quagmire.
> The terrorists are paying us back for it in places like London and Madrid.
>
> Still worse, here at home we have lost many of our civil liberties
> to the Patriot Act and forsaken our values at Guantanamo Bay
> under the pretext of war. Nancy Pelosi could not understand
> the continued detentions in Guantanamo since the war in
> Afghanistan is in her eyes completely finished.
>
> In this fable, we are not safer as a nation. George Bush's policies
> have increased the terror threat as we saw recently in the
> London bombing. We have now been at war longer than
> World War II. We still have no plan to defeat our enemies,
> and thus must set a timetable to withdraw from Iraq.
>
> Islamic terrorism cannot be defeated militarily nor can
> democracy be "implanted by force." So it is time to return
> to seeing the terrorist killing as a criminal justice matter
> - a tolerable nuisance addressed by writs and indictments,
> while we give more money to the Middle East and begin
> paying attention to the "root causes" of terror.
>
> That is the dominant narrative of the Western Left and
> at times it finds its way into mainstream Democratic
> -party thinking. Yet every element of it is false.
>
> Prior to 9/11, the United States had given an aggregate
> of over $50 billion to Egypt, and had allotted about the
> same amount of aid to Israel as to its frontline enemies.
> We had helped to save Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia,
> Kuwait, and Afghanistan, and received little if any thanks
> for bombing Christian Europeans to finish in a matter
> of weeks what all the crack-pot jihadists had not done
> by flocking to the Balkans in a decade.
>
> Long before Afghanistan and Iraq, bin Laden declared war
> on America in 1998, citing the U.N. embargo of Iraq and
> troops in Saudi Arabia; when those were no longer issues,
> he did not cease, but continued his murdering. He harbored
> a deep-seated contempt for Western values, even though
> he was eaten within by uncontrolled envy and felt empowered
> by years of appeasement after a series of attacks on our
> embassies, bases, ships, and buildings, both here and abroad.
>
> Iraqi intelligence was involved with the first World Trade
> Center bombing, and its operatives met on occasion with
> those who were involved in al Qaeda operations. Every
> terrorist from Abu Abbas and Abu Nidal to Abdul Yasin
> and Abu al-Zarqawi found Baghdad the most hospitable
> place in the Middle East, which explains why a plan to
> assassinate George Bush Sr. was hatched from such a miasma.
>
> Neither bin Laden nor his lieutenants are poor, but like the
> Hamas suicide bombers, Mohammed Atta, or the murderer
> of Daniel Pearl they are usually middle class and educated
> - and are more likely to hate the West, it seems, the more
> they wanted to be part of it. The profile of the London
> bombers, when known, will prove the same.
>
> The poor in South America or Africa are not murdering
> civilians in North America or Europe. The jihadists are
> not bombing Chinese for either their godless secularism
> or suppression of Muslim minorities. Indeed, bin Laden
> harbored more hatred for an America that stopped the
> Balkan holocaust of Muslims than for Slobodan Milosevic
> who started it.
>
> There was only unity in this country between September
> 11 and October 6, when a large minority of Americans
> felt our victim status gave us for a golden moment the
> high ground. We forget now the furor over hitting back
> in Afghanistan - a quagmire in the words of New York
> Times columnists R. W. Apple and Maureen Dowd; a
> "terrorist campaign" against Muslims according to
> Representative Cynthia McKinney; "a silent genocide"
> in Noam Chomsky's ranting.
>
> Two thirds of al Qaeda's command is now captured or
> dead; bases in Afghanistan are lost. Saddam's intelligence
> will not be lending expertise to anyone and the Baghdad
> government won't welcome in terrorist masterminds.
>
> In fact, thousands of brave Iraqi Muslims are now in a
> shooting war with wahhabi jihadists who, despite their
> carnage, are dying in droves as they flock to Iraq.
>
> A constitution is in place in Iraq; reform is spreading
> to Lebanon, the Gulf, and Egypt; and autocracies in
> Saudi Arabia, Libya, and Pakistan are apprehensive
> over a strange new American democratic zeal. Petroleum
> was returned to control of the Iraqi people,
|
|
|
|
| Re: Bullshit Detection 201 [message #55941 is a reply to message #55937] |
Sat, 16 July 2005 10:10 |
Deej [1]
Messages: 2149
Registered: January 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
since reason and conflict resolution can convince even
> a bin Laden to come to the table. That most evil has
> ended tragically and most good has resumed through
> armed struggle - whether in Germany, Japan, and
> Italy or Panama, Belgrade, and Kabul - is irrelevant.
> Apparently on some past day, sophisticated Westerners,
> in their infinite wisdom and morality, transcended
> age-old human nature, and as a reward were given
> a pass from the smelly, dirty old world of the past
> six millennia.
>
> The third restraint is multiculturalism, or the idea that
> all social practices are of equal merit. Who are we to
> generalize that the regimes and fundamentalist sects
> of the Middle East result in economic backwardness,
> intolerance of religious and ethnic minorities, gender
> apartheid, racism, homophobia, and patriarchy? Being
> different from the West is never being worse.
>
> These tenets in various forms are not merely found
> in the womb of the universities, but filter down into
> our popular culture, grade schools, and national
> political discourse - and make it hard to fight a
> war against stealthy enemies who proclaim constant
> and shifting grievances. If at times these doctrines
> are proven bankrupt by the evidence it matters little,
> because such beliefs are near religious in nature
> - a secular creed that will brook no empirical
> challenge.
>
> These articles of faith apparently fill a deep psychological
> need for millions of Westerners, guilty over their privilege,
> free to do anything without constraints or repercussions,
> and convinced that their own culture has made them
> spectacularly rich and leisured only at the expense
> of others.
>
> So it is not true to say that Western civilization is at war
> against Dark Age Islamism. Properly speaking, only
> about half of the West is involved, the shrinking
> segment that still sees human nature as unchanging
> and history as therefore replete with a rich heritage
> of tragic lessons.
>
> This is nothing new.
>
> The spectacular inroads of the Ottomans in the16th
> century to the gates of Vienna and the shores of the
> Adriatic were not explainable according to Istanbul's
> vibrant economy, impressive universities, or widespread
> scientific dynamism and literacy, or even a technologically
> superior and richly equipped military. Instead, a beleaguered
> Europe was trisected by squabbling Protestants, Catholics,
> and Orthodox Christians - as a wealthy northwest, with
> Atlantic seaports, ignored the besieged Mediterranean
> and Balkans and turned its attention to getting rich in
> the New World.
>
> So too we are divided over two antithetical views of the
> evolving West - Europe at odds with America, red and
> blue states in intellectual and spiritual divergence,
> the tragic view resisting the creeping therapeutic
> mindset.
>
> These interior splits largely explain why creepy killers
> from the Dark Ages, parasitic on the West from their
> weapons to communications, are still plaguing us
> four years after their initial surprise attack.
>
> "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars/But in
> ourselves, that we are underlings."
>
>
>
> - Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the
> Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is
victorhanson.com.
>
>Agreed. Lots of heat and very very little light.
I know, I know -- I don't have to read it if I don't want to.
But -- isn't this what the "general" site is for?
Way past time to take this out in the hall, people.
Chas.
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:05:35 -0500, "Jeremy Luzier"
<j.luzier@comcast.net> wrote:
>i'm sorry but i can't stand the political BS on this part of the PARIS
>group.
>
>if it could stay in the general section i would be much less distracted and
>sickened.
>
>at least i know i can expect such unbelievable BS in the general section.
>
>i don't mean to offend anyone on any side of the "debate".
>
>can we just stay on topic?
>
>thanks!
>
>jeremy
>I have tried a couple of time up against the years to get the political
stuff in General but it's easy to forget when it's summer and cucumber time
for many of us, as we're saying in Norwegian when there's nearly nothing to
write about.
Sorry.
erlilo
"Jeremy Luzier" <j.luzier@comcast.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:42d93bb3@linux...
> i'm sorry but i can't stand the political BS on this part of the PARIS
> group.
>
> if it could stay in the general section i would be much less distracted
> and
> sickened.
>
> at least i know i can expect such unbelievable BS in the general section.
>
> i don't mean to offend anyone on any side of the "debate".
>
> can we just stay on topic?
>
> thanks!
>
> jeremy
>
>You know that parallel compression trick we do for guitars that
works so well? You know, copy the track, squeeze one and not
the other, then mix them?
Here's a pedal that does it. I own one, and it KILLS. It sounds so
dang good I leave it on all the time (and I never do that) and it works for
everything from metal to country to jazz.
It also works terrific as the front end of a modeler or other guitar
preamp for direct recording.
http://www.barberelectronics.com/tonepress.htm
Absolutely my favorite guitar processor of all time.
DCYou guys are right. I think both sides have been adequately
represented, I think both arguments have been well-made.
I think everyone has made their minds up at this point. Hostility
and name-calling is creeping in to what was a pretty darn
civilized discussion. It's quickly becoming pointless.
I am tracking a hard rock tune of mine and need to get back to work and this
really isn't the place for this discussion. If you want to
email me privately, I will discuss it further, but really, we've covered
the subject, don't you think?
DC
PS, holy cow this Marshall JCM2000 sounds cool cranked up!
Unfortunately, you can hear it down at the stop light when I do
that... grrrr... Why can't the modelers sound like that?I hope you still follow up with the WTC7 stuff....
email me if you have to.
thanks
"DC" <dcicchetti@urs2.net> wrote in message news:42d95010@linux...
>
> You guys are right. I think both sides have been adequately
> represented, I think both arguments have been well-made.
> I think everyone has made their minds up at this point. Hostility
> and name-calling is creeping in to what was a pretty darn
> civilized discussion. It's quickly becoming pointless.
>
>
> I am tracking a hard rock tune of mine and need to get back to work and
> this
> really isn't the place for this discussion. If you want to
> email me privately, I will discuss it further, but really, we've covered
>
> the subject, don't you think?
>
> DC
>
> PS, holy cow this Marshall JCM2000 sounds cool cranked up!
> Unfortunately, you can hear it down at the stop light when I do
> that... grrrr... Why can't the modelers sound like that?
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hello everyone,
Here you can see what I'm looking at from my home in Kvernaland, Norway =
right now about 9.45.PM. I have some wonderful pictures when the sun is =
going down from the same place, if someone want to see them too.
I lived on this place from '70 'till '84 and travelled back this spring =
to be with my grandchildren and children again in the same area where =
they grown up.
The Northern sea/Nort Atlantic Ocean is showing up in the sunset about 6 =
miles
from my window. The lake in the middle is Froylandsvatnet.
Best
erlilo
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<BODY>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello =
everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here you can see what =
I'm looking at=20
from my home in Kvernaland, Norway right now about 9.45.PM. I =
have=20
some wonderful pictures when the sun is going down from the same place, =
if=20
someone want to see them too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I lived on this place =
from '70 'till=20
'84 and travelled back this spring to be with my grandchildren =
and=20
children again in the same area where they grown=20
up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000501c58a42$57216c50$0200000a@erlings" align=3Dbaseline =
border=3D0></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Northern sea/Nort =
Atlantic Ocean=20
is showing up in the sunset about 6 miles</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>from my window. The lake =
in the middle=20
is Froylandsvatnet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>erlilo</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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| Re: Bullshit Detection 201...pay attention class this will be onthe test..... [message #55985 is a reply to message #55937] |
Sun, 17 July 2005 16:58 |
Jef Knight
Messages: 19
Registered: July 2005
|
Junior Member |
|
|
erman and
U.S. governments began to institute a variety of measures intended to
destabilize and fragment the Yugoslav federation. These measures ranged
from economic ones such as denying loans and demanding immediate repayment
of outstanding debts to arming separatist (some with ties to the European
fascist movement) movements in the Yugoslav republics of Croatia and
Bosnia-Hercegovina. As for Kosovo, Serbia has indicated that it would
grant Kosovo the autonomy it once had. However, the KLA and others now
demand independence with the eventual goal of uniting with Albanians in
Albania, Macedonia, and Greece and forming a Greater Albania. This is not
acceptable to either the Serbs, Macedonians, or the Greeks and would
probably cause this war to spread to those countries along with Turkey (who
supports the idea) and perhaps the rest of Europe.
>Kuwait,
>
Don't forget that Bush Sr. gave Saddam the nod to go ahead and invade
them, then turned table and used it as an excuse to invade Iraq. I was
trading in oil back then and I remember a business associate of mine
telling me that when in Washington he'd been told a tidbit about Saddam
screwing Bush Sr out of 20 billion dollars that Georgie wanted back.
Heresay, but non-the-less interesting.
>and Afghanistan,
>
it was the US who funded the destruction of Afghanistan. No one on
either side disputes this. Except for Ann Coulter wannabe's.
>and received little if any thanks
>for bombing Christian Europeans to finish in a matter
>of weeks what all the crack-pot jihadists had not done
>by flocking to the Balkans in a decade.
>
>
That war, too, was about Azerbijani oil deposits regardless of how many
people the US killed in how short a time.
>Long before Afghanistan and Iraq, bin Laden declared war
>on America in 1998,
>
1998 in not "long before Afghanistan and Iraq" it's long *after* these
US conflagrtations began. What planet is this writer from?
>citing the U.N. embargo of Iraq and
>troops in Saudi Arabia;
>
These are more current reasons, yes, but it didn't all start here. This
conflict is very old.
> when those were no longer issues,
>he did not cease,
>
Because the US did not cease it's military invasion.
> but continued his murdering.
>
What do you call what the US is doing to Them? As a point of clarity,
the US, by illegally invading Iraq is, according to the Geneva
Convention, murdering people. How do people deffending their land from
Foreign Invaders became murderers? Arn't they defenders of their homeland?
>He harbored
>a deep-seated contempt for Western values
>
The US is pretty corrupt and it's policies are entirely one-sided. Let's
not forget that these people are like Menonites compared to the average
US citizen. No drugs, no liquor, increadibly harsh on crime, no
promiscuity...not unlike the tenets of the Bible that the 80% of the US
espouses but fails to do. USians are hypocritical/fanatical in the
extreme and they don't want what they percieve as US ultra-sinnfulness
polluting their nations.
>, even though
>he was eaten within by uncontrolled envy
>
This writer is monumentaly ingnorant. They don't envy us, they hate us.
It's not, "Geez, Trish, I hate you buying that top..I wanted it."
It's more like, "Geez, Trish, I hate you for buying that top that
reveals so much. You should be ashamed. I'm going to kill you for this."
>and felt empowered
>by years of appeasement after a series of attacks on our
>embassies, bases, ships, and buildings, both here and abroad.
>
>
Gibberish.
>Iraqi intelligence was involved with the first World Trade
>Center bombing,
>
Apples and oranges again. The Twin Towers were a symbol that they All
wanted to bring down.
> and its operatives met on occasion with
>those who were involved in al Qaeda operations.
>
Probably, but don't forget that Al Qaeda is not a centrally organized
bunch, just ideologically bound, independant cells. The CIA said this
many times in their excusing of their inability to capture these guys.
> Every
>terrorist from Abu Abbas and Abu Nidal to Abdul Yasin
>and Abu al-Zarqawi found Baghdad the most hospitable
>place in the Middle East, which explains why a plan to
>assassinate George Bush Sr. was hatched from such a miasma.
>
>
Oddly enough the same thing is true about Canada, but I don't see how
bombing Toronto will break up the Al Qaeda.
>Neither bin Laden nor his lieutenants are poor, but like the
>Hamas suicide bombers, Mohammed Atta, or the murderer
>of Daniel Pearl they are usually middle class and educated
>— and are more likely to hate the West, it seems, the more
>they wanted to be part of it. The profile of the London
>bombers, when known, will prove the same.
>
>
So, a middle class atheist is the same as a middle class Baptist? So
they're middle class and educated, many of the activists of the world
are. But the idea that they covet our high-speed internet and SUV's in,
well, retarded at best.
>The poor in South America or Africa are not murdering
>civilians in North America or Europe.
>
Because they are Christians, like the US, who is killing them anyway.
The Islamic Jihad is an opposing system of morality. The US never went
to El Salvadore and said that they were evil, and that the US war was a
war on evil, a crusade, as they did in the middle east. They used
religious language to make a point demeaning the very underlying premise
of the Jihad. Bush + God = We are Rightious. Islam + Allah (who is
Satan, right?) = You are evil and must be smote.
>The jihadists are
>not bombing Chinese for either their godless secularism
>or suppression of Muslim minorities.
>
China never invaded them, bombed their country into a moonscape, took
them prisoner and tortured and humilliated them against the GenCon or
forbade them to fly over their own country. ..remember the no-fly-zones
of the '90's?
>Indeed, bin Laden
>harbored more hatred for an America that stopped the
>Balkan holocaust of Muslims than for Slobodan Milosevic
>who started it.
>
>
Just as the US cares more about bombings IN the US than in other
countries. Also, you have a charter that says the state must keep out of
religion. Can you imagine a headline that reads, "US Invasion to Free
Christians".
Muslim is a religious word. Defending "Muslims" per se is not what Bin
Laden is atttempting to accomplish, but the ousting of US invaders from
the countries of the middle east.
>There was only unity in this country between September
>11 and October 6, when a large minority of Americans
>felt our victim status gave us for a golden moment the
>high ground. We forget now the furor over hitting back
>in Afghanistan — a quagmire in the words of New York
>Times columnists R. W. Apple and Maureen Dowd; a
>“terrorist campaign” against Muslims according to
>Representative Cynthia McKinney; “a silent genocide”
>in Noam Chomsky’s ranting.
>
>
So, US killing of innocent civillians is...okay? It's only wrong when
someone kills a USian?
>Two thirds of al Qaeda’s command is now captured or
>dead; bases in Afghanistan are lost. Saddam’s intelligence
>will not be lending expertise to anyone and the Baghdad
>government won’t welcome in terrorist masterminds.
>
>
And now it'll be so much easier for the US to steal it all away from the
people of these nations.
>In fact, thousands of brave Iraqi Muslims are now in a
>shooting war with wahhabi jihadists who, despite their
>carnage, are dying in droves as they flock to Iraq.
>
>
I'm not certain what the point of this, and many other of Hanson's,
statements is, but it's irrelevant.
The fact is that once the doors to overthrow were opened by the US, ever
faction who believed that their way is the best way stepped up to the
plate. The Wahhabi are so extreme that even Bin Laden sits up and takes
notice when they speak. They are Way more fundy that he is. He took US
money; the Wahhabi never would.
But here's a substitution of terms look at all this. If the US were
invaded and society were disrupted to the extent in is in Iraq, or not
even so, do you not think the disparate, extremist factions here at home
would step up? There are many well armed factions in the US who would
not hesitate to attempt to claim the leadership; Arian Nation,
Republicans, Democrats, all those well armed Christian movements, not to
mention the millitias and any other clutch of nuts with guns. It happens
in every country where the gov't goes down...all the rats vie for the
cheeze.
>A constitution is in place in Iraq; reform is spreading
>to Lebanon, the Gulf, and Egypt; and autocracies in
>Saudi Arabia, Libya, and Pakistan are apprehensive
>over a strange new American democratic zeal.
>
The idea built into this nonsense is that the US is somehow a God-send.
Conquering other peoples nations and transforming them into US
sub-states is, in it's underlying nature, what Hitler was trying to do.
If it was bad for him, who is in not bad for the US?
> Petroleum
>was returned to control of the Iraqi people, and the price
>has skyrocketed to the chagrin of American corporations.
>
>
This guy is either lying through his teeth or is just not paying
attention. Either way you should not buy into this highly un-insightful
gibberish.
>There has been no repeat of September 11 so far.
>Killing jihadists abroad while arresting their
>sympathizers here at home has made it hard to
>replicate another 9/11-like attack.
>
>
I agree. It's like tying a battered wife to a chair so she can't hit
back while you punch her in the face. (Now, I'm not a wife beater,
should you wonder, but the US acts very much like this common type of
sociopath.)
>The Patriot Act was far less intrusive than what
>Abraham Lincoln (suspension of habeas corpus),
>Woodrow Wilson (cf. the Espionage and Sedition Acts),
>or Franklin Roosevelt (forced internment) resorted to
>during past wars.
>
Just because their turd stank doesn't mean that Bush's smells any better.
> So far America has suffered in Iraq
>.006 percent of the combat dead it lost in World War II,
>while not facing a conventional enemy against which it
>might turn its traditional technological and logistical advantages.
>
>
Unlike the Iraqi civilian population which is suffering worse than
hollocost vicitms...at least they had a place to live, some meager food,
electric lights and some labour to keep them occupied...the Iraqi
victims have none of these things.
>Unlike Gulf War I and the decade-long Iraqi cold war of
>embargos, stand-off bombing, and no-fly-zones, the
>United States has a comprehensive strategy both in the
>war against terror and to end a decade and a half of
>Iraqi strife: Kill terrorists abroad, depose theocratic
>and autocratic regimes that have either warred with the
>United States or harbored terrorists, and promote democracy
>to take away grievances that can be manipulated and
>turned against us.
>
>
Goebbelian rhetoric in pure Nazi style.
To quote my neighbour taking to this dude:"Get off'a my lawn an' I'll
stop hitting you with my shovel."
>Why does this false narrative, then, persist — other than
>that it had a certain political utility in the 2002 and
>2004 elections?
>
>
Uh, because it's objectively, provable true and all this rightish
rhetoric is provably false?
>In a word, this version of events brings spiritual calm
>for millions of troubled though affluent and blessed
>Westerners.
>
Liberal guilt? That's pretty lame.
> There are three sacraments to their
>postmodern thinking, besides the primordial fear
>that so often leads to appeasement.
>
>
I disagree that these truths of modern history/politics is in anyway
scued to the Postmodern. Although, having read Lacan and that ilk I can
say without distraction that the rightwing ramblings of Mr. Hanson quite
closely resemble the chock-full-o-nuts gibberish of the Po-Mo world.
>Our first hindrance is moral equivalence. For the
>hard Left there is no absolute right and wrong since
>amorality is defined arbitrarily and only by those in power.
>
>
Morality is relative. There is proof of God and there is proof of the
human origins of the Bible. So, this being true, then all morality comes
from humans and is therefore arbitrary, regardless of your place on the
US political spectrum.
>Taking back Fallujah from beheaders and terrorists is
>no different from bombing the London subway since
>civilians may die in either case.
>
Should we take back Texas from executioners also?
There is no real difference. Killing is killing.
> The deliberate rather
>than accidental targeting of noncombatants makes little
>difference, especially since the underdog in Fallujah is
>not to be judged by the same standard as the overdogs
>in London and New York.
>
Killing civilians is killing civilians. There's no Good deaths.
> A half-dozen roughed up prisoners
>in Guantanamo are the same as the Nazi death camps or
>the Gulag.
>
>
Perhaps not, but the underlying motives are the same. Still, a torture
camp is a torture camp whether in Treblinka or Guantanamo or Abu Graib,
and it's still wrong.
>Our second shackle is utopian pacifism — ‘war
>never solved anything’ and ‘violence only begets
>violence.’
>
It doesn't take a genius to see that this is how it plays out in the
world of humans bristling with prides, perjudices and unquenchable emotions.
>Thus it makes no sense to resort to violence,
>since reason and conflict resolution can convince even
>a bin Laden to come to the table.
>
Why should he come to the table? It's his table and the US isn't
invited. The idea that we should, for some reason, forget all the harm
the US has done over there underlies everthing Hanson writes. Doesn't
matter that the US spent more than 20 years decimating and interfereing
with their countries, including Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria to name a
few. Oh, no, it's all about 9/11. No it isn't.
>That most evil has
>ended tragically and most good has resumed through
>armed struggle — whether in Germany,
>
This was US-like nation capturing and, yes, it was evil. The only way to
stop it, just as the only way to stop the US, will be through massive
violence.
> Japan,
>
There was no need to bomb all those civilians. History shows that they
needed to test their bombs, and they did.
> and
>Italy
>
Itally? This guy is really nuts.
>or Panama,
>
Panama? Evil that needs to be violently smashed? Huh? Let's not forget
that Noriega was a CIA drug puppet. The US is the biggest drug dealer in
the world. Why do you think that when asked about whether Bush was going
to bomb the gov't said they would not because, "it's not our mission" to
quote Gen Franks.
> Belgrade,
>
There was no overt evil in Belgrade, just patsies and oil profits.
>and Kabul — is irrelevant.
>
>
What evil in Kabul? The US? They're the ones who distroyed it beginning
with the US-Russian war that was held there.
>Apparently on some past day, sophisticated Westerners,
>in their infinite wisdom and morality, transcended
>age-old human nature, and as a reward were given
>a pass from the smelly, dirty old world of the past
>six millennia.
>
>
Huh? This makes no sense. You read a lot of this type of clap-trap
coming from the right....and the left as well.....
>The third restraint is multiculturalism, or the idea that
>all social practices are of equal merit.
>
They are. To say otherwise in to claim that Your social practices are
some how better in quality, a subjective report at best.
> Who are we to
>generalize that the regimes and fundamentalist sects
>of the Middle East result in economic backwardness,
>
>
Backwardness by corporate standards, yes. So, maybe we should invade the
hardcore Menonites, with their no-electricity and child spankings? Being
economically out of line with Coke and Bectel is not a crime.
>intolerance of religious and ethnic minorities,
>
like so many USians, such as the wealthy who are intollerant of the
poor, or the Baptists who are intollerant of pretty much everything.
Which brings me to an interesting point: the US is the most religiously
fundamentalist extremist bunch outside of the Mullah's of Iran, and are
hugely intolerant of Blacks, (no bigotry isn't dead), Atheists, Gays and
Liberals. The US is the bigest bunch of bigoted wackjobs on earth.
Nothing personal, it's just my observation.
> gender
>apartheid,
>
Uh, women still had to protest well into the 90's because of US gender
inequality.
>racism,
>
Big problem in the US.
>homophobia,
>
Huge problem in the US.
>and patriarchy?
>
Women are still fighting this in the US.
>Being
>different from the West is never being worse.
>
>
That' s the entire point isn't it. Let them be different. The US is very
different from China. Should they inforce the US to conform to their ways?
>These tenets in various forms are not merely found
>in the womb of the universities, but filter down into
>our popular culture, grade schools, and national
>political discourse — and make it hard to fight a
>war against stealthy enemies who proclaim constant
>and shifting grievances.
>
Their grievences are not shifting. They have been saying the same thing
about US intervention for a century. The US just refuses to listen.
> If at times these doctrines
>are proven bankrupt by the evidence it matters little,
>because such beliefs are near religious in nature
>— a secular creed that will brook no empirical
>challenge.
>
>
While this is emphatically true of writers of the Right such as Coulter,
Limbaugh and Hanson, and it's been clearly deliniated point-by-point by
they intelectual superiors, the same cannot be said of most of the
neutralist and centerist writers.
The right never "proves" anything, it just makes up things as it goes
along, forgets the fact of historic and policital documents and proceeds
with a string of bad logic and ad hominems that add up to nothing but
blusterous rantings.
I've read a great deal from both sides and, though I'm a centerist - if
you need a term to grasp - I find that the left at least is interested
in the truth and the facts whereas the right is mostly fiction and
slag-offs. I have never seen a rightwing document that had the numbers
right, the facts right or was anything but a screed, although I enjoyed
it for it's Lewis Carol-esque-ness.
>These articles of faith apparently fill a deep psychological
>need for millions of Westerners, guilty over their privilege,
>
>
Guilty over privilage? I've met a lot, I mean a real lot of privilaged
people (my wifes familly is amoungs the upper crust of NYC, so I've met
people as diverse as Noam Chomski and Donald Trump and some of the Bush
familly who were at our wedding), and I've never met one who felt guilty
because of their privilage. Oh contraire.
>free to do anything without constraints or repercussions,
>
>
I don't know what planet this writer is from but it can't be earth.
Anything? Really? Without constraints or repercussions financially,
moraly or legally? Really?
Do you see what I mean about the inane BS these guys spew?
>and convinced that their own culture has made them
>spectacularly rich and leisured only at the expense
>of others.
>
>
That's hillarious! It's the actual, often stated reason the right gives
to BE rich!
>So it is not true to say that Western civilization is at war
>against Dark Age Islamism.
>
Yes it is. I bet he even admits to it in the next section.
> Properly speaking, only
>about half of the West is involved, the shrinking
>segment that still sees human nature as unchanging
>and history as therefore replete with a rich heritage
>of tragic lessons.
>
>
See, I told you so. So, literally, it isn't the East who war against our
civilization, it's the "half of the West", the violent and insane half,
that is fighting against "the dark ages of islam".
And there you have it folks, the real reason for the war - the overthrow
of dark-ages Islam.
The nice thing about writing from the right is that people with mental
illness will invariable show their hand. There pre-disposition to
crazyness can lead them to do no less.
And that's what Hanson has done.
>This is nothing new.
>
>The spectacular inroads of the Ottomans in the16th
>century to the gates of Vienna and the shores of the
>Adriatic were not explainable according to Istanbul’s
>vibrant economy, impressive universities, or widespread
>scientific dynamism and literacy, or even a technologically
>superior and richly equipped military. Instead, a beleaguered
>Europe was trisected by squabbling Protestants, Catholics,
>and Orthodox Christians — as a wealthy northwest, with
>Atlantic seaports, ignored the besieged Mediterranean
>and Balkans and turned its attention to getting rich in
>the New World.
>
>
Wow, that's just plain bad writting.
But somewhere in there it shows that Christianity is a basic, historic
problem, both then and now.
>So too we are divided over two antithetical views of the
>evolving West — Europe at odds with America, red and
>blue states in intellectual and spiritual divergence,
>the tragic view resisting the creeping therapeutic
>mindset.
>
>
Okay, I'm pretty sure he's been smoking pot; he's really starting to
drift with the verbio-garbage. How does one comment on something that
makes so little sense? What creeping therapuetuc mindset is he refering
to? I currently resisting it, to be sure.
>These interior splits largely explain why creepy killers
>from the Dark Ages,
>
Yep. On drugs. How can you tell? He used the base word "creep" twice in
a row.
> parasitic on the West from their
>weapons to communications, are still plaguing us
>four years after their initial surprise attack.
>
>
Also, you can tell because the style gradually morphed into utter
giberrish trying to pose as intelegent rhetoric. More like dialog from
an R. Crumb comic.
>"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars/But in
>ourselves, that we are underlings."
>
>
Right. Now you get it. The fault is in yourselves.
>
>
>— Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the
>Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is victorhanson.com.
>
>
" a degree is not a certificate of sanity." jk
jef
ps, don't get me wrong, sure rightists are pretty nutz, but I just love
to write rebutals. cheers.
>
>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi,
This look like a pretty sweet place to live.
What's the temperature there?
jef
--------------010903050503050408010301
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Hi,<br>
<br>
This look like a pretty sweet place to live.<br>
What's the temperature there?<br>
<br>
jef<br>
<blockquote cite="mid42d96991@linux" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type"
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--------------010903050503050408010301--"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote:
>That sounds like a very friendly mobo. what bios tdoes it use?
It's an AWARD Bios. I took your advice and made sure I got AWARD. That's
what I'm used to anyhow. It also has this Gigabyte "Dual Bios" thing with
two copies of the BIOS, so that if you flash it or get a virus and corrupt
it somehow you can just switch to the backup BIOS. :o)
I'll get Paris running tonight. She seems pretty quick though. Boot time
is about 4 x quicker.
And there's something wonderful about seeing 1,048,576 come up as your ram
count. :o)
Cheers,
Kim."justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>lame
What, that XP couldn't handle the change, or that I did the dodgy and didn't
re-install cleanly?
I'll be buying new HDD's in about 4 weeks so I can't be bothered re-installing
everything and then doing it all again. I know I should, but right now I
just want to get it up and running and check it works.
Cheers,
Kim."Kim" <hiddensounds@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:42daf249$1@linux...
>
> "justcron" <justcron@hydrorecords.compound> wrote:
>>lame
>
> What, that XP couldn't handle the change, or that I did the dodgy and
> didn't
> re-install cleanly?
>
> I'll be buying new HDD's in about 4 weeks so I can't be bothered
> re-installing
> everything and then doing it all again. I know I should, but right now I
> just want to get it up and running and check it works.
fresh install would really help with the new computer feeling, but most
importantly rule recycled windows out as a problem should you encounter
something down the road.
just messin though, I've done the same thingDeej that doesn't really seem to be worth it, but have you considered adding
a hamster army spinning a bunch of wheels? Might want to put it in another
room and run some cables, cuz that shit can be loud.
"DJ" <animix_spam-this-ahole_@animas.net> wrote in message
news:42daeb52$1@linux...
> My Cubase DAW is running at 333MHz (2 x gigs of PC 2700 DDR) using an AMD
> XP
> 3000 CPU. It is plugging along at between 60-75% CPU usage when playing
> back
> 48 tracks of audio with little else going on other than plugins from my 3
> x
> UAD-1 cards. I'm not fmiliar enough with SX to knowif this is about normal
> or not and I'm sure I could optomize the system a little more by turning
> off
> the LAN in the bios when I'm mixing since one of my RME's is sharing an
> IRQ
> with it, but anyway, the system seems very stable and definitely usable as
> a
> mixdown platform. I would however, like to squeeze a little more CPU
> headroom out of it and I'm wondering if anyone here has ever substituted
> an
> XP 3200 CPU for an XP 3000 and noticed that the gain in cycles was
> substantial enough to justify the expenditure (as subjective as that is).
> Anyway, it's a longshot, but I thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Deej
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>See? You can't take ONE conviction that a person may hold &
>assume you know all about that person. Yeh, it goes both ways
>and Americans tend to do the same thing sometimes.
oh yo youre holding me a lecture about how not to jump to conclusions? heh
:-)
sorry btw that i didnt reply - was quite busy doing a
film score. im still not done but while the bounce is running,
let me say this about your numerous tactical scenarios:
see, the point is, you talk about potential losses,
losing parts of western germany and what not. im sure
you will agree that from a german point of view, the
stakes were even much higher, cause for a german it was
the own country that would fall.
with that in mind, it was germanys call, it was out decision
to make. germany chose the deescalation and diplomacy route.
long before reagan and gorbatchov started cuddling btw.
and what do you know, it didnt go too bad.
thats where we go back to the "both can claim it was their
approach that made peace in the end"-part, meaning,
thats where we start going in circles and ill leave it at that.
i really better stay out of this for now. i just discovered
that "im ready for nukes" thread...this is no place for me anymore.
it probably hasnt been for a long time.
>>(the fact that europe is dealt with as a whole is already
>>a joke, considering that europe currently is divided like
>>never before
>
>Economically you're still pretty strong - the Eurodollar is
>still hanging tough, and some of the regulations the EU is
>imposing on U.S.-based corporations are kicking their ass &
>making it nearly impossible to do business. If we did that,
>everyone would scream "foul!!!", but if you do that, somehow it
>gets played off as "a fair playing field".
>
>>and the european union faces one of
>>the biggest crisis (whats the plural for crisis anyway)
>
>"crises" - same thing but with an "e" instead of the 2nd "i".
>
>
>>its also not like this discussion is new. weve had the
>>"patriotic derek comes to the rescue when people start
>>with the simplified generalizations about the area he lives in"
>>routine before.
>
>Hey, you have every right to defend your country's position -
>but don't think that means that no one is going to disagree
>with you, either. As far as the Eurogeneralizations go, don't
>forget, it's you Eurofolks who WANTED it that way by forming an
>economic common currency union... when...? AFTER the Americans
>weren't needed over there anymore. Sure, there had been talks
>about that for decades, but no action was taken before because
>no one wanted to piss off America. Once the cold war was over &
>Fulda looked like that picture I posted instead of acres &
>acres of Soviet armor, then no one gave a shit what America
>thought... irnic, innit? That's partly what I meant earlier
>with the "Fuck the Americans" comment". Before it was all about
>doing good business with us, and supporting us politically as
>allies... now it's all about hammering our companies that try
>to do business over there, and politically it's more & more
>about taking sides with anyone BUT America, because we're no
>longer as important to you as your Europartners.
>Keep in mind, I'm not singling out Germany, OK? I'm talking
>about Europe in general here. That's the American point of view
>for the large part... so you can see where we're coming from,
>yes?
>
>
>>as to the thank you part, well, i did thank you, didnt i?
>>but i you want it worded as "thanks for the tanks", here
>>it is, "thanks for the tanks". better?
>
>No, no, no... it was: "Thanks for NO tanks" (meaning no SOVIET
>tanks) :)
>
>
>>but in return i ask for the wording "thanks for the incredible
>>amounts of money as well as your ridiculous military forces,
>>in that order. we appreciate the help (item 1) and the
>>gesture (item 2)".
>
>OK, not sure what you mean here... do you mean the incredible
>amounts of money that your country contributed to the NATO
>alliance? Not to belittle that - you guys did what you could,
>and you were our best partner from everything I can
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