| Paris tips with latency / adat / digital connections etc [message #99519] |
Tue, 15 July 2008 01:20  |
Dimitrios
Messages: 1056
Registered: August 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi,
As some of you (including me) are using except for the Paris ins extra outboard
AD connected to Paris adat card or spdif I would like to share the following...
There is a time difference by using analog Paris ins and digital input at
the same time.
I measured some devices I have agains Paris inputs.
ISA 220 connected to Scope creamware using adat connectionand then back to
Paris ADAT gives me a 22 samples latency (Paris input considered as 0 )
DBX 376 gives me 29 samples
DBX 386 gives 30 samples.
ADA8000 behringer connected directly to Paris adat card (no creamware in
beetween) gives 24 samples latency.
Now the whole point for any of you is the following.
If you are using such devices and you want a time alligned recording (Very
essential when recording multi microphone setups like drums) then you ought
yourself to get Faderworks.
Well faderworks is needed by any means for all Paris users.
Now you can measure your outboard device for latency as follows:
take two outputs from your external preamp.
One analog output and connect it to Paris analog in and the digital output
(spdif or ADAT) and connect this to the same eds card's submix as your analog
input.
Record something like one,two,three,four and loop this.
While looping make sure the two audio tracks can cancel (well not at all
but the closest that can be done) by using the sample latency delay from
Voxengo or Faderworks or other latency plugin and slowly move the knob to
like over 10 samples and so.
Around 20-30 samples I am sure you will find the "almost" cancellation occuring
(don't forget to flip phase on one track !).
You will need to change volume on one track also to match for volume recording
differences.
Then you keep data like this.
If you have Behringer ADA8000 then by using adat card there is a 24 sample
latency already measured for you !
Now when you record a multiple mic setup you can compensate by using faderworks
for this latencies to have a time alligned recording !!
Believe me the recording which is time alligned will sound exceptional when
done so.
ALSO important when using faderworks make a preset with your cards ( I have
a 5 card preset ) where you put the eds cards time differences already alligned
in beetween the cards just by using faderworks and have the latency on on
all paris audio tracks.
So first submix needs no faderworks latency input.
Second submix tracks need a 14 samples being put.
Third 16 samples, fourth 18, fifyh 20 etc...
You can check that by using same methoid as above only easier.
Just put the same recorded audio tracks on separate submixes, flip the phsae
of one and put a latency plugin to check on FIRST submix (this comes earlier
than all other submixes ) 14 samples or maybe 15 or 16 , depends on your
system !
Then every after submix it will be two samples added.
My system has 0,16,18,20,22 (cards 1-5).
You need to allign all your submixes because all other DAWS have this by
default ! and because this way you can insure that you can record to multiple
eds cards and spread across time snsitive tracks.
Even when mixing and you wanna use more eds resources especially with Mike's
great new additiions (Thanks Mike !!) then you can move your overheads to
submix 2 or 3 and don't care about the latency difference in beetween these
cards because you have taken care of it already !
I can send my default preset ( 5 cards ) and if this works for you then you
will gain all the time needed to load on all paris tracks faderworks ( OK
this is for faderworks users only !) and allign for the latency differences.
Thats for now...
Regards,
Dimitrios
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| Re: Paris tips with latency / adat / digital connections etc [message #99521 is a reply to message #99519] |
Tue, 15 July 2008 08:24  |
Rich[6]
Messages: 1
Registered: July 2008
|
Junior Member |
|
|
Thanks D for this and all your really helpful posts! Paris is hard to leave
and with things like this it makes sence to keep using it.
"Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>As some of you (including me) are using except for the Paris ins extra outboard
>AD connected to Paris adat card or spdif I would like to share the following...
>
>There is a time difference by using analog Paris ins and digital input at
>the same time.
>
>I measured some devices I have agains Paris inputs.
>
>ISA 220 connected to Scope creamware using adat connectionand then back
to
>Paris ADAT gives me a 22 samples latency (Paris input considered as 0 )
>
>DBX 376 gives me 29 samples
>DBX 386 gives 30 samples.
>
>ADA8000 behringer connected directly to Paris adat card (no creamware in
>beetween) gives 24 samples latency.
>
>Now the whole point for any of you is the following.
>
>If you are using such devices and you want a time alligned recording (Very
>essential when recording multi microphone setups like drums) then you ought
>yourself to get Faderworks.
>Well faderworks is needed by any means for all Paris users.
>
>Now you can measure your outboard device for latency as follows:
>take two outputs from your external preamp.
>One analog output and connect it to Paris analog in and the digital output
>(spdif or ADAT) and connect this to the same eds card's submix as your analog
>input.
>Record something like one,two,three,four and loop this.
>While looping make sure the two audio tracks can cancel (well not at all
>but the closest that can be done) by using the sample latency delay from
>Voxengo or Faderworks or other latency plugin and slowly move the knob to
>like over 10 samples and so.
>Around 20-30 samples I am sure you will find the "almost" cancellation occuring
>(don't forget to flip phase on one track !).
>You will need to change volume on one track also to match for volume recording
>differences.
>
>Then you keep data like this.
>
>If you have Behringer ADA8000 then by using adat card there is a 24 sample
>latency already measured for you !
>
>Now when you record a multiple mic setup you can compensate by using faderworks
>for this latencies to have a time alligned recording !!
>Believe me the recording which is time alligned will sound exceptional when
>done so.
>
>ALSO important when using faderworks make a preset with your cards ( I have
>a 5 card preset ) where you put the eds cards time differences already alligned
>in beetween the cards just by using faderworks and have the latency on on
>all paris audio tracks.
>
>So first submix needs no faderworks latency input.
>Second submix tracks need a 14 samples being put.
>Third 16 samples, fourth 18, fifyh 20 etc...
>You can check that by using same methoid as above only easier.
>Just put the same recorded audio tracks on separate submixes, flip the phsae
>of one and put a latency plugin to check on FIRST submix (this comes earlier
>than all other submixes ) 14 samples or maybe 15 or 16 , depends on your
>system !
>Then every after submix it will be two samples added.
>My system has 0,16,18,20,22 (cards 1-5).
>
>You need to allign all your submixes because all other DAWS have this by
>default ! and because this way you can insure that you can record to multiple
>eds cards and spread across time snsitive tracks.
>
>Even when mixing and you wanna use more eds resources especially with Mike's
>great new additiions (Thanks Mike !!) then you can move your overheads to
>submix 2 or 3 and don't care about the latency difference in beetween these
>cards because you have taken care of it already !
>
>I can send my default preset ( 5 cards ) and if this works for you then
you
>will gain all the time needed to load on all paris tracks faderworks ( OK
>this is for faderworks users only !) and allign for the latency differences.
>
>Thats for now...
>Regards,
>Dimitrios
|
|
|
|
| Re: Paris tips with latency / adat / digital connections etc [message #99523 is a reply to message #99521] |
Tue, 15 July 2008 10:13 |
Tom Bruhl
Messages: 1368
Registered: June 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I finally have some new projects started with FaderWorks and I
have to say it makes life so convenient adding plugins and bam - compensated
for.
Sweet addition along with Mike's new plugs. Almost keepin' up with the
Jone's.
My new Paris rig arrived today . It'll be some time before it's in use. I
have
to configure the Magma, 5 EDS, Creamware, UAD before anything happens.
Quadcore overclocked to 3.2. Holy mama .
Thanks go to Chris Ludwig, Mike Audet, Dimitrios for keeping Paris alive ! !
!
Tom
"Rich" <000studiodog_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:487cc130$1@linux...
>
>
> Thanks D for this and all your really helpful posts! Paris is hard to
> leave
> and with things like this it makes sence to keep using it.
>
> "Dimitrios" <musurgio@otenet.gr> wrote:
>>
>>Hi,
>>As some of you (including me) are using except for the Paris ins extra
>>outboard
>>AD connected to Paris adat card or spdif I would like to share the
>>following...
>>
>>There is a time difference by using analog Paris ins and digital input at
>>the same time.
>>
>>I measured some devices I have agains Paris inputs.
>>
>>ISA 220 connected to Scope creamware using adat connectionand then back
> to
>>Paris ADAT gives me a 22 samples latency (Paris input considered as 0 )
>>
>>DBX 376 gives me 29 samples
>>DBX 386 gives 30 samples.
>>
>>ADA8000 behringer connected directly to Paris adat card (no creamware in
>>beetween) gives 24 samples latency.
>>
>>Now the whole point for any of you is the following.
>>
>>If you are using such devices and you want a time alligned recording (Very
>>essential when recording multi microphone setups like drums) then you
>>ought
>>yourself to get Faderworks.
>>Well faderworks is needed by any means for all Paris users.
>>
>>Now you can measure your outboard device for latency as follows:
>>take two outputs from your external preamp.
>>One analog output and connect it to Paris analog in and the digital output
>>(spdif or ADAT) and connect this to the same eds card's submix as your
>>analog
>>input.
>>Record something like one,two,three,four and loop this.
>>While looping make sure the two audio tracks can cancel (well not at all
>>but the closest that can be done) by using the sample latency delay from
>>Voxengo or Faderworks or other latency plugin and slowly move the knob to
>>like over 10 samples and so.
>>Around 20-30 samples I am sure you will find the "almost" cancellation
>>occuring
>>(don't forget to flip phase on one track !).
>>You will need to change volume on one track also to match for volume
>>recording
>>differences.
>>
>>Then you keep data like this.
>>
>>If you have Behringer ADA8000 then by using adat card there is a 24 sample
>>latency already measured for you !
>>
>>Now when you record a multiple mic setup you can compensate by using
>>faderworks
>>for this latencies to have a time alligned recording !!
>>Believe me the recording which is time alligned will sound exceptional
>>when
>>done so.
>>
>>ALSO important when using faderworks make a preset with your cards ( I
>>have
>>a 5 card preset ) where you put the eds cards time differences already
>>alligned
>>in beetween the cards just by using faderworks and have the latency on on
>>all paris audio tracks.
>>
>>So first submix needs no faderworks latency input.
>>Second submix tracks need a 14 samples being put.
>>Third 16 samples, fourth 18, fifyh 20 etc...
>>You can check that by using same methoid as above only easier.
>>Just put the same recorded audio tracks on separate submixes, flip the
>>phsae
>>of one and put a latency plugin to check on FIRST submix (this comes
>>earlier
>>than all other submixes ) 14 samples or maybe 15 or 16 , depends on your
>>system !
>>Then every after submix it will be two samples added.
>>My system has 0,16,18,20,22 (cards 1-5).
>>
>>You need to allign all your submixes because all other DAWS have this by
>>default ! and because this way you can insure that you can record to
>>multiple
>>eds cards and spread across time snsitive tracks.
>>
>>Even when mixing and you wanna use more eds resources especially with
>>Mike's
>>great new additiions (Thanks Mike !!) then you can move your overheads to
>>submix 2 or 3 and don't care about the latency difference in beetween
>>these
>>cards because you have taken care of it already !
>>
>>I can send my default preset ( 5 cards ) and if this works for you then
> you
>>will gain all the time needed to load on all paris tracks faderworks ( OK
>>this is for faderworks users only !) and allign for the latency
>>differences.
>>
>>Thats for now...
>>Regards,
>>Dimitrios
>
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