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PARIS development continues... [message #104574] Mon, 11 January 2010 06:22 Go to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi All,

I'm sorry that I haven't had much to report for a while. Life conspired to keep me away from PARIS code for a while, but that has changed recently.

I've been very hard at work on a Windows 7 64 bit driver for PARIS. The first step was re-reading the first 400 pages of my driver book to get back up to speed on things. Then, the first hurdle was getting the scherzo to compile. Initially, it didn't. I got it compile, and then I needed to get it to install on Windows 7 64. There were differences in the inf format. I got passed that, and it installed. But, then, it blue screened Windows on start up. I tracked that down to a change in the way Windows 7 handles text in drivers, and the system loaded. But, then, when PARIS launched, it blue screened the system. I tracked that down to the fact that Microsoft banned the method the Paris driver uses to expose the hardware to the PARIS app starting with Windows 2003 server. I researched and read and read, and found another way to expose the hardware. Now, it doesn't blue screen, but the driver still isn't finished.

It's looking good, but it all depends on how well the alternate way of exposing the hardware works. I still have to do the thunking (converting calls from 32 bit contexts), but that should be pretty straightforward. I'm totally excited about getting PARIS running on 64 bit windows.


I've been working on some other things, too, and home to have an announcement soon. It's nothing huge, but it's taken a fair bit of time.

I've also worked with Kerry tracking down why Mac PAFs don't work in PC apps that support PAF. I think it's lead to an approach that will get me over the hump on enabling 24 bit support in ASIO driver. I've got the latency down to 10 milliseconds in the ASIO driver, but I got completely stuck trying to get 24 bits to pass. The result was just complete noise, but I may have a fix now.

I've certainly not abandoned PARIS by any means. last year, I was teaching high school, and I had no free time at all. This summer, I got married and decided to change careers. I'm doing freelance programming now, but that change meant I had to study php, javascript, css, visual basic, etc., in order to be flexible enough to take the work that is out there. That took up a lot of time.

I also started on a computer science degree this fall, and my first class was discreet mathematics, and that took a lot more time than I thought it would, but it went well, and I learned a lot.

I'm still here, and still committed. I hope that everyone here is making great music with their PARIS systems (I know Tom Guerra and Ted Gerber are - holy crap! Everyone should buy their CDs), even if new software has been slow coming. I think we have one killer system as it is, and it's only going to get better as time goes by.

I hope this update restores some faith if people thought we were done developing PARIS. Development continues.

Best wishes to all.

Mike




Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104575 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 11 January 2010 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Drago[2] is currently offline  Jim Drago[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 102
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
Thanks for your hard work Mike. Hope all is well with you..
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104576 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 11 January 2010 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mani1147 is currently offline  mani1147   CANADA
Messages: 130
Registered: May 2009
Location: NB Canada
Senior Member
Wow Mike, that is great news, thanks for keeping up development and a big congrates on your wedding.

PS: If you need beta testers on windows 7, I plan to setup a dual boot XP/7 in my new box in late January. I have a 3 card, 3 C16, 2 Mec (with ADATs and 8ins/8outs)system.

Rob_A
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104577 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 11 January 2010 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ted Gerber is currently offline  Ted Gerber   CANADA
Messages: 705
Registered: January 2009
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Very Happy
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104578 is a reply to message #104577] Mon, 11 January 2010 13:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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heheheheh... surpriiiiise!

The old girl's still got a few of those up her sleeve, huh?

Wait til they hear the other part, Mike Very Happy


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104579 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 11 January 2010 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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You just got the nagging issues in XP sorted out - by any sane metric we should be expecting Vista drivers somewhere in 2014, yet suddenly we're leapfrogging Vista (oh boy, isn't that a relief to hear) and gone straight to attacking Windows 7. Man, what a nice thing to contemplate. Let's hope the investigations go well.

Quote:
I've also worked with Kerry tracking down why Mac PAFs don't work in PC apps that support PAF. I think it's lead to an approach that will get me over the hump on enabling 24 bit support in ASIO driver. I've got the latency down to 10 milliseconds in the ASIO driver, but I got completely stuck trying to get 24 bits to pass. The result was just complete noise, but I may have a fix now.


Yep - and I should spotlight this key concept Mike's touching on by implication here - there's un-dramatic but essential work necessary to fill crucial gaps in our (read: "the community's") understanding of how PARIS "thinks".

Without that sort of understanding, stuff that gets done in PARIS development will forever be partial, or marred by puzzling, frustrating, inexplicable "gotchas" like those that have hampered a significant amount of forward motion - including such comparatively recent stuff like the Reaper wrapper. It means living with half-baked solutions like Mike releasing his ASIO drivers without 24-bit support - but it doesn't have to be that way.

So although it's not very glamorous, and can definitely give the impression that "not much is going on" while deeper understanding is sought, this is essential work Mike's doing.


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Tue, 02 February 2010 21:26]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104580 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 11 January 2010 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aaron is currently offline  Aaron   UNITED STATES
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2009
Junior Member
This is HUGE news for me. As time marches onward having you guys on the case to keep PARIS alive in '10 is a big deal to me. I have, as some of you may know, a duty as a network and systems administrator to push ever forward on my system for security reasons. I cannot thank you enough for keeping things moving in step with current systems.

Thank you so much Mike!
Aaron Allen
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104582 is a reply to message #104580] Mon, 11 January 2010 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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It's all Mike - you should have seen the expression on my face when he casually dropped that one on me. Very Happy

"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104584 is a reply to message #104582] Mon, 11 January 2010 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009
Senior Member
If I haven't said it before I'll say it now

Totally Fucking Awesome!

Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104585 is a reply to message #104584] Mon, 11 January 2010 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Drago[2] is currently offline  Jim Drago[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 102
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
Mike I also want to say that even though I am not a power user, ALL of the work you are doing is huge..

Quote:

I've been working on some other things, too, and home to have an announcement soon. It's nothing huge, but it's taken a fair bit of time.


The work I do skinning is not huge...it isn't needed to keep PARIS alive...Yours is.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 January 2010 18:08]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104586 is a reply to message #104585] Tue, 12 January 2010 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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When your own contributions make people say things like this, Jim - you gotta know you're doing something important in its own right.

And there'll be more on skinning very shortly - I can't wait to show folks the brushed bronze (as mentioned, I need to do a better screencap than that last one I did).


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Tue, 12 January 2010 01:39]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104587 is a reply to message #104586] Tue, 12 January 2010 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rick is currently offline  rick   UNITED STATES
Messages: 1976
Registered: February 2006
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mike, you da man.
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104588 is a reply to message #104587] Tue, 12 January 2010 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim Drago[2] is currently offline  Jim Drago[2]   UNITED STATES
Messages: 102
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
Kerry thank you for the kind words. I hope it didn't sound like I was fishing Rolling Eyes I was just making an honest appraisal of the different levels of importance and true value of the different development that is taking place. In our society we don't prioritize correctly at all. For example when a baseball player makes more each time he goes to bat whether he gets a hit or strikes out than I as a teacher make in 5 years; priorities are whacky.

When I am sitting in front of PARIS my skins are much less tiring to my eyes, that has value. But what you and Mike are contributing is on a whole different level of value. SSC's art was beautiful but without what you guys are doing the day was quickly approaching that there wouldn't be machines to make it visible.

Keep up the hard work...and thanks again to both Mike and you..

Laughing Laughing Now there's more politics on this site. AHHH like old timesl Laughing Laughing

I also want to add an apology to the Mac people among us. I ran on a Mac for 3 years, and could never figure out how to import the new BMPs into the OS. That was one of the reasons I switched. If anyone knows how please pursue that.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 January 2010 05:53]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104592 is a reply to message #104574] Wed, 13 January 2010 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drfrankencopter is currently offline  drfrankencopter   CANADA
Messages: 137
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
That's awesome news Mike!

Man, if only ID released the source for Paris...just image what would be possible.

Cheers

Kris
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104596 is a reply to message #104574] Thu, 14 January 2010 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   CANADA
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Thanks so much for all your kind words, guys.

I have to say, though, that it's not me that is keeping PARIS alive. PARIS lives when anyone makes a great recording with her. And, that's something I seldom (if ever!) do. I like to think of PARIS the same way that one might think of a Tascam MS16 or some other piece of classic gear. As longs as it works, no one cares that Tascam hasn't produced one in 20 or 30 years. It just matters that it works and sounds great.

I'll do my best to keep extending PARIS as much as I can for as long as I can because I think it deserves that. And, then I get to use it. Smile

I wish so much I had the source to the PARIS app. But, where there's life, there's hope. If it takes another 10 years for ID to decide that the source code isn't worth anything to them, I'll still be around, and so will PARIS.

Keep rockin', guys!

All the best,

Mike
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104597 is a reply to message #104596] Thu, 14 January 2010 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike mullin[1] is currently offline  mike mullin[1]   
Messages: 15
Registered: March 2008
Location: Ottawa
Junior Member
I also want to say thank you to Mike for his great efforts
on behalf of all of us.
cheers,
Mike Mullin

PS What do you do with you're spare time?
icon7.gif  Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104721 is a reply to message #104597] Tue, 02 February 2010 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorsi is currently offline  Jorsi   GREENLAND
Messages: 23
Registered: December 2005
Junior Member
Great Mike you are the [url=man!!! Keep up the good work. The new xp multicore driver is working great. thanks again Mike

Jorsi

[Updated on: Tue, 02 February 2010 19:19]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104762 is a reply to message #104574] Sat, 13 February 2010 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Beach is currently offline  Paul Beach   UNITED STATES
Messages: 5
Registered: June 2007
Junior Member
Mike,

Thank you for your commitment to and love for PARIS.

I am about to build a PC, based on Windows 7, 64. I do a fair amount of video editing, but PARIS is my primary music production tool.

I was debating keeping my PARIS system on a separate computer. Now it appears I won't have to.

I am following your progress with great interest.

Thanks again,
Paul
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104900 is a reply to message #104574] Sat, 27 February 2010 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zex is currently offline  Zex   
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2005
Member
Mike ... thank You very much !

Count me in as a buyer of Win 7 driver

I have made several great sounding records in my country with Paris , and I am hoping that I will be able to stick with this system for at least few years more !!!!

Thanks a bunch !

[Updated on: Sat, 27 February 2010 15:13]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #104906 is a reply to message #104574] Sun, 28 February 2010 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David L is currently offline  David L   UNITED STATES
Messages: 59
Registered: September 2007
Member
Mike, that's great news. I've got a Win7-x64 OS now. Still running 32-bit apps for plugin compatibility. If you need a beta tester, I'm ready.
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #105221 is a reply to message #104574] Wed, 21 April 2010 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RonA is currently offline  RonA   UNITED STATES
Messages: 27
Registered: September 2009
Location: Colorado
Junior Member
Hello Mike,

I havn't visited the forum for a while, so I'm making a belated contribution to this thread. I havn't done any recording for the past three years, while devoting myself to the saxophone. And though my beautiful PARIS has been sitting idle, I look forward with great anticipation to jumping back in, and making many more albums. I want to thank you, Kerry and all of you who have made it possible for me to continue using this classic and peerless DAW.

Ron Irving
www.RonIrving.com
Jungle Time
Rise In Time
My Island Plane: all recorded and mixed in PARIS
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #105349 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 07 June 2010 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael Broyles is currently offline  Michael Broyles   UNITED STATES
Messages: 18
Registered: June 2005
Junior Member
It's been around 5 years since I've posted anything around here...man things have changed a bunch.

I'm very excited to hear there is work happening on the Win 7 64 bit platform for Paris. I have actually been contemplating abandoning Paris but this is making me think twice. Heck, I wasn't even aware there had been a multi-core scherzo driver written.

I have invested in the Presonus Studio Live board mostly for live use but have been considering building a corner for it to use in the studio. I still may do that for some things but having Paris fully modernized will give me pause....

[Updated on: Mon, 07 June 2010 15:08]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #106162 is a reply to message #104574] Mon, 21 March 2011 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oui_Oui is currently offline  Oui_Oui   
Messages: 51
Registered: December 2009
Member
Any updates on Windows 7 drivers? Mike if you need beta tester let me know.
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #106164 is a reply to message #106162] Mon, 21 March 2011 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kerryg is currently offline  kerryg   CANADA
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Win7 32-bit appears to be working stably with updated versions of the XP drivers

Win7 64-bit still under way but had a huge breakthrough last week so barring the completely unforeseen, they're pretty close.

[I mean... how freakin' awesome is that, three full operating systems after PARIS' discontinuation? Very Happy ]


"... being bitter is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other guy to die..." - anon

[Updated on: Mon, 21 March 2011 12:33]

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Re: PARIS development continues... [message #106166 is a reply to message #106162] Mon, 21 March 2011 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikeaudet   
Messages: 477
Registered: February 2009
Location: Canada
Senior Member
Hi Oui_Oui,

The XP driver does indeed work with Windows 7 32 bit. The main thing is that the PARIS application has to be run as administrator, or the PSCL can't open some shared memory. But, it works fine.

I'm going to be spending a day on the 64 bit driver this week. I'm very excited about how things are going.

All the best,

Mike
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #106172 is a reply to message #106166] Tue, 22 March 2011 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oui_Oui is currently offline  Oui_Oui   
Messages: 51
Registered: December 2009
Member
AWESOME!!!!!

Very Impressive...
Re: PARIS development continues... [message #106177 is a reply to message #106172] Tue, 22 March 2011 13:54 Go to previous message
dnafe is currently offline  dnafe   CANADA
Messages: 390
Registered: February 2009
Senior Member
thank you Mike

it's greatly appreciated
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