Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? (Mixing in Paris)
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Re: Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? [message #108071 is a reply to message #108069] |
Sat, 01 February 2014 08:51 |
JohnG
Messages: 57 Registered: April 2013 Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Thanks Kerry and Don for chiming in. I love how you guys are passionate enough to share your insights.
Don, when you try another mix in paris, let me know what you think about the upper bass issue. I'm sure after working in another system for a while and then going back, you'll have a fresh perspective on the differences.
Also speaking of reaper, I am thinking about switching to that in the future, if my XP machine breaks down again. Last summer and fall I had some issues that involved replacing parts that broke etc and it took months to get it back to a semi stable state!
The expense of new converters is what is preventing me from trying this sooner. Any suggestions on a A/D converter that could do 8-12 channels and sound decent at around 1000 to 2000 us dollars? IT could be converters only or pre amp converter combo (prefer just converters as I have a mixing board and some preamps I can use in front of it). What type of interface would work best in newer computers, firewire? USB, something else?
Also how are you liking reaper?
Thanks again guys!
John, Twin Cities, MN
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Re: Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? [message #108078 is a reply to message #108077] |
Sun, 02 February 2014 09:25 |
JohnG
Messages: 57 Registered: April 2013 Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Thanks again Ted and Kerry for the additional comments.
The insights are helpful.
I will likely set up a new computer in the next 1-2 years with reaper, maybe, and a new interface. It will be interesting to hear the differences.
Would reaper be a good choice given my workflow and features I want:
1)I record drum kits, electric bass,electric and acoustic guitars (via mic and occasionally DI), vocals, occasional synth/keyboard (rock, pop, alternative mostly).
2) I would like a program that allows me more creativity in the mixing realm, signal routing, creatively using effects, easily copying tracks while maintaining sync etc.(lots of effects if needed (I assume the more CPU and RAM power the better).
3) I would like to stick with PC.
Thanks!
John
John, Twin Cities, MN
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Re: Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? [message #108079 is a reply to message #108078] |
Sun, 02 February 2014 09:43 |
Ted Gerber
Messages: 705 Registered: January 2009
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Hey John
Regarding interfaces, I have used or still use RME UFX, UAD Apollo, Metric Halo ULN-8 & Presonus Firestudio. By far, the best value - bang for the buck - is the Presonus stuff.
I liked the UFX and and it had more ins and outs in one box, but was also 3 times the price. The Metric Halo is superb and comes with really good dedicated channel strip in software, but it's 6 times the price. The UAD Apollo is a little out of the price range quoted, and is best used by those who are committed to the UA plugin world.
The Presonus Firestudio project is fantastic for its preamps; conversion and routing at a fraction of the cost. You can buy 2 of them (16 analog I/O) for less than $1000 and they come with the light version of Studio One, which is their DAW, designed new from the ground up by the original designers of CuBase/Nuendo.
I can't recommend it enough.
Having said that, speaking of DAWs, Reaper by itself is cheaper than Studio One Pro (though Studio One Pro has an integrated Mastering suite that's very efficient), and has some tweaks that make it run well with Paris, if you still want to do that...
Ted
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Re: Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? [message #108094 is a reply to message #108090] |
Mon, 03 February 2014 18:37 |
Wayne
Messages: 206 Registered: July 2008 Location: Las Vegas
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Doug, I feel that it is the improved capabilities.
For me it's midi and a built in click track. I've never had any luck with Paris midi. Period. So PT is my sequencing software by choice. Dragging and dropping drum loops (EZdrummer in my case) to snap to the bars and beats anywhere on the playing field is easy in most sequence software. And then very editable in the midi editor. Paris just frustrates me and I will not try it in front of a client. I spent to many hours attempting it on my own and with the help from users in this forum. Still no-go.
Audio Click tracks in Paris is doable but not very user friendly. ie, I set the meter and time in the project window. Use bars and beats in the editor, snap to grid on. Drop in a pre-recorded single hit closed hi-hat audio at time zero. Copy and paste multiple (usually 200-400) and were good. Client and I do a trial run thru. Nope, not quite right. So it's undo paste, change time in the project window, back to the editor and multiple paste again. OK now the client is happy. Oh-oh, client not so happy, he/she wants the time a little slower. Ctrl-Z, change time, Ctrl-L. Let's record it again. Doesn't feel professional to me.
The click in PT moves with the time change. If any audio is recorded is shifts too using "elastic" audio format. Now there are artifacts but most our initial recordings are rough/dump files. We're just writing a structure. Very easy in PT. Prior to PT, I used Cakewalk and work with clients using Ableton and Sonar and PT.
When I record band audio, I love Paris. Very forgiving and predictable. I like the mixer, especially the trim, graphic EQ (v3.0), the aux layout and the global mixer. All the different gain stages or insert capabilities are wonderful in post mixdown. But primarily because clients love the warm sound right out of the box. For some genres it may not be quite as necessary.
Also lacking in Paris is auto-latency compensation. Fortunately, I only use Paris efx's on the aux's during record so not a problem. Zero to a couple of samples only. However, once I had no-Limit on the global insert and forgot about it and the client said there was an echo during an overdub. I bypassed it, problem gone.
Occasionally, I'll get a client who has a keyboard sequence with drums. He/she will tell me their meter/time and I'll preset the time in Paris. Then I'll create 8 intro clicks as explained above for him/her to start their keyboard and then record it in Paris. If he/she is off from the start, (I line up to snare hits) a little nudge to or fro to the bars and beats and wha-la, I can cut and paste and snap to the grid to my hearts desire.
So for me, Paris for straight up audio recording and PT for most any sequencing.
Wayne
Audio-Audition Digital Studios - Las Vegas, NV
www.audio-audition.com
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Re: Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? [message #108095 is a reply to message #108083] |
Mon, 03 February 2014 18:45 |
JohnG
Messages: 57 Registered: April 2013 Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Wayne, Thanks for your observations.
I have to say that my limited experience with the sound of pro tools in the box corroborates what you describe, but it was 6-8 years ago.
Before I started recording my own stuff, I had an engineer record our band by tracking directly into protools, with (probably some lower end A/D converters and preamps, and of course mics, the room, mixing skill, etc all come into play), so I realize it is not an apples to apples comparison but......
The resulting mixes had very good separation, strong stereo placement, and clarity of each instrument but also very sterile and dry sounding. And "Flat" sounding, not in the pitch sense but just lacking depth and full frequency range is what it sounded like to me.
Thanks again for your take!
John
John, Twin Cities, MN
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Re: Do Paris Mixes tend to sound Upper Bass Heavy? [message #108097 is a reply to message #108094] |
Mon, 03 February 2014 20:57 |
Doug Wellington
Messages: 251 Registered: June 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
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Wayne wrote on Mon, 03 February 2014 19:37 | For me it's midi and a built in click track.
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Ah, gotcha. Yep, MIDI in PARIS sucks. Period.
I used to do most of my work in Logic or Digital Performer. DP was especially good for film scoring. I've got a lot of sample libraries and virtual instruments, so for that kind of work, I didn't touch my PARIS rig at all. In the last couple years I've been on an anti-Apple kick, so I was spending most of my time with Sibelius and Sonar, but once AVID got rid of the Sibelius team, I just couldn't use it any more, and once Gibson announced that it was buying Cakewalk, that really took the wind out of the sails. Sigh...
I really haven't been doing any scoring lately, and my attention has switched back to the modular stuff, so I'm back into straight ahead recording where PARIS rules.
Quote: | When I record band audio, I love Paris.
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Yes, same here. I've always treated PARIS as a tape recorder. It started out as a replacement for my VS-1880 and VSR recorders (I had three of them in my Roland VM-7200 rig) and took over as a replacement for large format tape. I've done a lot of live recording with my PARIS rig, and I think it really shines for that and mixing.
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