Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87148 is a reply to message #87147] |
Sun, 24 June 2007 21:52   |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Dj, Come one.. Chris is right. This whole bring me you tired..blah blah..
it seems..is only for Europeans..
Many many other people for around this glob would love to become american
citizens. But, because of politics, they (US Gov )try to keep a certain ethic
group numbers down..
Now, in the case of the mexicans , it's a know fact that even with immagration
reform, their numbers would drasticly create another political power base.
In this case, for now, they (mexican/hispanics) would vote democratic...
Even more important: The REal reason your president and other s want an open
boarder is because they know that we need to beuild up our armed forces.
Seeing that most americans (Whites, Blacks, Asians) are not volutaring to
enlist atthe numbers the Gove sees fit to maintain a vital fighting army..
Teedy Kennedy today just spoke on George Steponaplis show stating that very
thing...."The new bill states that in order to become a citizen a imagrant
must "first server in the armed" forces..Then, after they have serverd ,
they become citizens.
This is what they (US Gov) wanted from the start..TTo build up the armed
forces with the ultra poor.. Seeing that that the only ethic group who are
volutaring they services these days are your poor to middle poor whites..
You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in the
Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their sons
to war.. No different today..
I would not send my son(s) to war in Iraq. Would you?
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:467f2d05$1@linux...
>>
>> The US goverment..
>
>Is this the same US government that runs the same country that these people
>want to immigrate to because it is so evil?
>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87149 is a reply to message #87146] |
Sun, 24 June 2007 21:59 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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Aaron, are you saying that todays immigrants are not aading any value at all
??
Heck, most americans are not adding any value to days.. Truthe be told, most
don;pt even pay taxes ..
And, if they (immigrants) purchase good and services, are tehy not paying
taxes??
Language: The Ellis Island crew did'nt speak the laguage.. It took them awhile.
Oh yeah, they added Ganges, an the Mafia,organized crime.. Good citizens
from Italy..right..
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>No, sadly they probably meant if you come here learn the language, give
the
>same share of taxation we all have to and add something positive to the
>society and you've missed the point.
>Seriously, I care not who comes from where as long as they offer something
>to make the country greater for their families, themselves and those already
>here. When I have freinds that pull their kids out of certain schools
>because they received honors by _default_ of actually speaking English,
>Houston we gotta big fat problem. you guys may not be geographically in
a
>place to have this happening in your town, but it's coming soon to ya at
>this rate if we don't get a handle on it.
>
>AA
>
>
>"Lamont" <jjd@aol.com> wrote in message news:467ee788$1@linux...
>>
>> That's right. They did not mean Africans, asians or even the natives of
>> this
>> land..Sad really sad..
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>Hi jeff,
>>>Sadly I think they only wanted it to read..
>>>
>>>"Give me your European tired, your European poor,
>>>Your European huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>The wretched refuse of your teeming European shore...."
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>Jeff Hoover wrote:
>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>> Actually I think we ought to invite any who want citizenship and can
>>
>>>>> speak some English to take an IQ and an aptitude test. Any with an
IQ
>>
>>>>> over 120 and a good aptitude score, if they have a clean legal record
>>
>>>>> and a record of steady employment, should be offered citizenship. The
>>
>>>>> rest should be refused citizenship and should be sent back. We can
>>>>> use more able, intelligent people. Who says we should not pick the
>>>>> top applicants just like a company does. That's how we can make our
>>
>>>>> country stronger.
>>>>
>>>> "Give me your tired, your poor,
>>>> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore...."
>>>>
>>>> Nah, that was so 20th century...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>--
>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>ADK
>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>(859) 635-5762
>>
>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87154 is a reply to message #87153] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 00:11 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
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Senior Member |
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LaMont,
With all due respect, your friends and relatives are hardly a sample
size of which to base considering everything else BS. Here's another
perspective as well that seems fairly balanced:
http://www.rcnv.org/rcnv/archives/2003/militarydemographics. htm
My guess is you personally know more of your own demographic, therefore
a disproportionate amount of your demographic appears to be singled out
in comparison to the much smaller circle of any other demographic which
you might associate.
As Nappy says
Respect,
JH
> No, that's bull-shitt..!!! You don;t wha you're talking about..
> Please..Did you see Oliver Stone's movie??
>
> I peersonally know of many of my relatives( African Americans) poor who got
> drafted and there where numerous whites sending their sons to college to
> avoid the draft , and send to canada..
> That's truth..
>
> So, you can keep you most educated BS facts..!!
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in the
>>>Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>>
>>sons
>>
>>>to war.. No different today..
>>
>>
>>One problem, it's bullshit.
>>
>>http://www.stolenvalor.com/
>>
>>Read it and discover that the vietnam soldier was the most highly educated
>>group ever to serve. They have had the highest success in life, the fewest
>>mental problems, and the lowest drug addiction of any veterans in the
>>20th century.
>>
>>The idea that the rich and connected all got out of vietnam and only
>>poor whites and blacks ended up there, is a lie.
>>
>>Read that book and get hip. It may open up a whole new world for you...
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87161 is a reply to message #87148] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 05:10 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
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Senior Member |
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"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote in message news:467f4a21$1@linux...
>
> Dj, Come one.. Chris is right. This whole bring me you tired..blah blah..
> it seems..is only for Europeans..
>
I disagree. I believe it is meant for those who are willing to abide by the
laws of this country, accept the economic model of this country, learn the
common language of this country so that they can understand the laws and
thrive within the economic model.
> Many many other people for around this glob would love to become american
> citizens. But, because of politics, they (US Gov )try to keep a certain
> ethic
> group numbers down..
No, I think it is because it has become necessary to accept people now who
can and are willing to assimilate here rather than to insulate themselves
into a culturally insular ghetto and try to recreate their old life and
society here in a new country. It's a normal thing to do at first, but
nowadays, there is less emphqasis on becoming "American" and more emphasis
on taking what America has to offer while refusing to honor it's existing
laws.
>
> Now, in the case of the mexicans , it's a know fact that even with
> immagration
> reform, their numbers would drasticly create another political power base.
> In this case, for now, they (mexican/hispanics) would vote democratic...
>
Except for the ones who have accepted the economic opportunities and thrived
and who mostly vote along conservative lines. As the last of the
conservatives are purged from the Democratic party, these folks have nowhere
to go but the Repulican party. Same thing can be said for other ethnic
groups, including successful, upwardly mobile blacks who have taken off the
victim suit that Jessie Jackson, Sharpton and other "leaders" along with
the white liberal power structure handed them in the 70's and accepted the
ecomonic model and become successful. If you want to hang a "racist" sign on
"the government" you should hang it squarely around the neck of Ted Kennedy
and his "boys" who created the welfare system back in the 60's and 70's.
> Even more important: The REal reason your president and other s want an
> open
> boarder is because they know that we need to beuild up our armed forces.
> Seeing that most americans (Whites, Blacks, Asians) are not volutaring to
> enlist atthe numbers the Gove sees fit to maintain a vital fighting army..
>
> Teedy Kennedy today just spoke on George Steponaplis show stating that
> very
> thing...."The new bill states that in order to become a citizen a imagrant
> must "first server in the armed" forces..Then, after they have serverd ,
> they become citizens.
This has always been the fast track to citizenship, not just recently.
Another hing you're missing is that we are not forcing anyone o do anything.
there are requirements for for becoming a citizen here. The first one should
be to obey the laws and not cross the border illegally.
>
> This is what they (US Gov) wanted from the start..TTo build up the armed
> forces with the ultra poor.. Seeing that that the only ethic group who are
> volutaring they services these days are your poor to middle poor whites..
> You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in the
> Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
> sons
> to war.. No different today..
> I would not send my son(s) to war in Iraq. Would you?
These "poor kids" have a pretty high level of education for the most part
LaMont.. I would not send my son anywhere. If he were of age, I would allow
him to make his own decisions.
>
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:467f2d05$1@linux...
>>>
>>> The US goverment..
>>
>>Is this the same US government that runs the same country that these
>>people
>
>>want to immigrate to because it is so evil?
>>
>>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87164 is a reply to message #87149] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 06:35 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
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Senior Member |
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"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:467f4bac$1@linux...
>
> Aaron, are you saying that todays immigrants are not aading any value at
> all
> ??
The ones that cross illegal and have to hide out from the gov't, can drive
drunk KILL someone and walk away from it because the local/state law
enforcement can't touch them since they're an INS problem, and INS can't get
to them because there aren't enough of them (we've come up from 2 to 7 in
this state.. the WHOLE state...)? Buddy if that's your idea of value you
better get a new set of morals.
BTW, stop trying to put words in my mouth. Read back to me where I wrote
that all immigrants are not bringing value.
>
> Heck, most americans are not adding any value to days.. Truthe be told,
> most
> don;pt even pay taxes ..
That's crap and if you really and truly believe it you've surrounded
yourself with criminals and need to evaluate your placement in life.
>
> And, if they (immigrants) purchase good and services, are tehy not paying
> taxes??
Ok, here we go with the "READ THE WORDS I WROTE" part of this again. Pay the
same share of taxation that we all have to . So, if they aren't paying
yearly federal taxes because they can't *exist* here legally.. how are they
doing that LaMont?
What part of that was not clear to you?
>
> Language: The Ellis Island crew did'nt speak the laguage.. It took them
> awhile.
> Oh yeah, they added Ganges, an the Mafia,organized crime.. Good citizens
> from Italy..right..
You forgot the mexican gangs, the chinese gangs, etc.... So what's that got
to do with it? Oh yeah, it's part of the immigration process to actually
speak the native tongue. Oh, wait. I don't see what that has to do with
still. Not speaking the language = mafia. Uh huh. Yeah. Maybe you better
clarify that. Or perhaps you should close your mouth before you piss off the
Italian Americans, cause you know they might just send Guido the Brick after
you. Or Lenny the Punch. Maybe even Tony Soprano.
You seriously need to actually read my post before engaging your fingers to
the keyboard again.
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>No, sadly they probably meant if you come here learn the language, give
> the
>>same share of taxation we all have to and add something positive to the
>
>>society and you've missed the point.
>>Seriously, I care not who comes from where as long as they offer something
>
>>to make the country greater for their families, themselves and those
>>already
>
>>here. When I have freinds that pull their kids out of certain schools
>>because they received honors by _default_ of actually speaking English,
>
>>Houston we gotta big fat problem. you guys may not be geographically in
> a
>>place to have this happening in your town, but it's coming soon to ya at
>
>>this rate if we don't get a handle on it.
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"Lamont" <jjd@aol.com> wrote in message news:467ee788$1@linux...
>>>
>>> That's right. They did not mean Africans, asians or even the natives of
>
>>> this
>>> land..Sad really sad..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi jeff,
>>>>Sadly I think they only wanted it to read..
>>>>
>>>>"Give me your European tired, your European poor,
>>>>Your European huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>The wretched refuse of your teeming European shore...."
>>>>
>>>>Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Jeff Hoover wrote:
>>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>>> Actually I think we ought to invite any who want citizenship and can
>>>
>>>>>> speak some English to take an IQ and an aptitude test. Any with an
> IQ
>>>
>>>>>> over 120 and a good aptitude score, if they have a clean legal record
>>>
>>>>>> and a record of steady employment, should be offered citizenship. The
>>>
>>>>>> rest should be refused citizenship and should be sent back. We can
>>>>>> use more able, intelligent people. Who says we should not pick the
>>>>>> top applicants just like a company does. That's how we can make our
>>>
>>>>>> country stronger.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Give me your tired, your poor,
>>>>> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore...."
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah, that was so 20th century...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>>ADK
>>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>(859) 635-5762
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87165 is a reply to message #87153] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 06:50 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
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Senior Member |
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"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>
>No, that's bull-shitt..!!! You don;t wha you're talking about..
>Please..Did you see Oliver Stone's movie??
Do you really look to the movies for your history?
Amazing...
>I peersonally know of many of my relatives( African Americans) poor who
got
>drafted and there where numerous whites sending their sons to college to
>avoid the draft , and send to canada..
>That's truth..
>
>So, you can keep you most educated BS facts..!!
When you want to learn what really happened, the facts are
available. Please don't quote Oliver Stone movies for your
support when the actual history is readily available,
DC
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>>
>>>You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in
the
>>>Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>>sons
>>>to war.. No different today..
>>
>>
>>One problem, it's bullshit.
>>
>>http://www.stolenvalor.com/
>>
>>Read it and discover that the vietnam soldier was the most highly educated
>>group ever to serve. They have had the highest success in life, the fewest
>>mental problems, and the lowest drug addiction of any veterans in the
>>20th century.
>>
>>The idea that the rich and connected all got out of vietnam and only
>>poor whites and blacks ended up there, is a lie.
>>
>>Read that book and get hip. It may open up a whole new world for you...
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87181 is a reply to message #87165] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 14:32 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
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Senior Member |
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No..I was simply simplifing the facts for you(in a movie).. Your links are
nothing more than a few opinions on the events that went on @ Vietnam..
I have many many eye withnesss who tell of a different story..
Bottom line: The Bush's , Clinton's weasled their way out the Vietnam war.
Same as today.. Some ofdthevery same folks who are for this so called war
in Iraq, are the very same ones who: 1) Would not voluntare themselves
2) would not send their own kids..
Your Proseident and others want themexicans in the US because : 1) Need to
build the armed forces..being that most whites and Blacks are not volutaring
..
Then there's big business who wants the cheap labor.. If we study our past,
this is One of the recipes that prompted the Civil war.. With the North want
to abolish Slavery to get the cheap labor from the south's Plantations..
Are we heading for another civil war?? who knows? But, both sides of the
immigration debate is just as passionate players decing the the Civil War...
Caught in the middle as always is the poor and so- called middle class ..
Just like the poor southern whites hated the Slaves because they were (given
task) to farm, share-crop, and run estates...While many southern whites struggled..
Same as today..
That's the hypocrisy of it all..
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>>
>>No, that's bull-shitt..!!! You don;t wha you're talking about..
>>Please..Did you see Oliver Stone's movie??
>
>Do you really look to the movies for your history?
>
>Amazing...
>
>
>>I peersonally know of many of my relatives( African Americans) poor who
>got
>>drafted and there where numerous whites sending their sons to college to
>>avoid the draft , and send to canada..
>>That's truth..
>>
>>So, you can keep you most educated BS facts..!!
>
>When you want to learn what really happened, the facts are
>available. Please don't quote Oliver Stone movies for your
>support when the actual history is readily available,
>
>DC
>
>
>
>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in
>the
>>>>Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>>>sons
>>>>to war.. No different today..
>>>
>>>
>>>One problem, it's bullshit.
>>>
>>>http://www.stolenvalor.com/
>>>
>>>Read it and discover that the vietnam soldier was the most highly educated
>>>group ever to serve. They have had the highest success in life, the fewest
>>>mental problems, and the lowest drug addiction of any veterans in the
>>>20th century.
>>>
>>>The idea that the rich and connected all got out of vietnam and only
>>>poor whites and blacks ended up there, is a lie.
>>>
>>>Read that book and get hip. It may open up a whole new world for you...
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87182 is a reply to message #87168] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 14:33 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
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You what DJ, Iasked my uncles who were in Namm , and they stated that the
movie was really close ..Only , that the movie did not go as deep ..
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>La Mont!!!....Oliver Stone is now the national historian?????!!!!!
>
>ROTFLMAO!!!!
>
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote in message news:467f6821$1@linux...
>>
>> No, that's bull-shitt..!!! You don;t wha you're talking about..
>> Please..Did you see Oliver Stone's movie??
>>
>> I peersonally know of many of my relatives( African Americans) poor who
>> got
>> drafted and there where numerous whites sending their sons to college
to
>> avoid the draft , and send to canada..
>> That's truth..
>>
>> So, you can keep you most educated BS facts..!!
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in
the
>>>>Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>>>sons
>>>>to war.. No different today..
>>>
>>>
>>>One problem, it's bullshit.
>>>
>>>http://www.stolenvalor.com/
>>>
>>>Read it and discover that the vietnam soldier was the most highly educated
>>>group ever to serve. They have had the highest success in life, the
>>>fewest
>>>mental problems, and the lowest drug addiction of any veterans in the
>>>20th century.
>>>
>>>The idea that the rich and connected all got out of vietnam and only
>>>poor whites and blacks ended up there, is a lie.
>>>
>>>Read that book and get hip. It may open up a whole new world for you...
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87185 is a reply to message #87161] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 14:49 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
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DJ,
I would not expect you or many other whites to understand the plight of the
Black america.. You stated" Jessie Jackson, Sharpton and other "leaders"
along with
the white liberal power structure handed them in the 70's and accepted the
ecomonic model and become successful. If you want to hang a "racist" sign
on
"the government" you should hang it squarely around the neck of Ted Kennedy
and his "boys" who created the welfare system back in the 60's and 70's."
That system 'welfare' bythe way still has many more whites than blacks on
payroll..
Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
help..
Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are what
you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
type-smile) and make a really good living..
I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for Blacks
since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a hiring
manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone cieling
for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom line
is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King Jr
if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people really
do ned a helping hand.
Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in a
White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by the local
Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that things
were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were not after
the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like after
the Civil war.. Why??
Is there still racism in America??
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote in message news:467f4a21$1@linux...
>>
>> Dj, Come one.. Chris is right. This whole bring me you tired..blah blah..
>> it seems..is only for Europeans..
>>
>I disagree. I believe it is meant for those who are willing to abide by
the
>laws of this country, accept the economic model of this country, learn the
>common language of this country so that they can understand the laws and
>thrive within the economic model.
>
>> Many many other people for around this glob would love to become american
>> citizens. But, because of politics, they (US Gov )try to keep a certain
>> ethic
>> group numbers down..
>
>No, I think it is because it has become necessary to accept people now who
>can and are willing to assimilate here rather than to insulate themselves
>into a culturally insular ghetto and try to recreate their old life and
>society here in a new country. It's a normal thing to do at first, but
>nowadays, there is less emphqasis on becoming "American" and more emphasis
>on taking what America has to offer while refusing to honor it's existing
>laws.
>>
>> Now, in the case of the mexicans , it's a know fact that even with
>> immagration
>> reform, their numbers would drasticly create another political power base.
>> In this case, for now, they (mexican/hispanics) would vote democratic...
>>
>Except for the ones who have accepted the economic opportunities and thrived
>and who mostly vote along conservative lines. As the last of the
>conservatives are purged from the Democratic party, these folks have nowhere
>to go but the Repulican party. Same thing can be said for other ethnic
>groups, including successful, upwardly mobile blacks who have taken off
the
>victim suit that Jessie Jackson, Sharpton and other "leaders" along with
>the white liberal power structure handed them in the 70's and accepted the
>ecomonic model and become successful. If you want to hang a "racist" sign
on
>"the government" you should hang it squarely around the neck of Ted Kennedy
>and his "boys" who created the welfare system back in the 60's and 70's.
>
>> Even more important: The REal reason your president and other s want an
>> open
>> boarder is because they know that we need to beuild up our armed forces.
>> Seeing that most americans (Whites, Blacks, Asians) are not volutaring
to
>> enlist atthe numbers the Gove sees fit to maintain a vital fighting army..
>>
>> Teedy Kennedy today just spoke on George Steponaplis show stating that
>> very
>> thing...."The new bill states that in order to become a citizen a imagrant
>> must "first server in the armed" forces..Then, after they have serverd
,
>> they become citizens.
>
>This has always been the fast track to citizenship, not just recently.
>Another hing you're missing is that we are not forcing anyone o do anything.
>there are requirements for for becoming a citizen here. The first one should
>be to obey the laws and not cross the border illegally.
>>
>> This is what they (US Gov) wanted from the start..TTo build up the armed
>> forces with the ultra poor.. Seeing that that the only ethic group who
are
>> volutaring they services these days are your poor to middle poor whites..
>> You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in
the
>> Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>> sons
>> to war.. No different today..
>> I would not send my son(s) to war in Iraq. Would you?
>
>These "poor kids" have a pretty high level of education for the most part
>LaMont.. I would not send my son anywhere. If he were of age, I would allow
>him to make his own decisions.
>
>
>>
>>
>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:467f2d05$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> The US goverment..
>>>
>>>Is this the same US government that runs the same country that these
>>>people
>>
>>>want to immigrate to because it is so evil?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87193 is a reply to message #87164] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 21:44 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Aaron, that's crap on your part to believe that every single so-called illegal
immigrant is a criminal. That's crap.
Again, was every family or person who came to this country via (slave trade,
Ellis Island, or even indentured servitude) criminals? Could there have been
some on the criminal element who came to this country via Ellis Island? or
the slave trade? or indentured servitude?
By your definition, they are.
"Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:467f4bac$1@linux...
>>
>> Aaron, are you saying that todays immigrants are not aading any value
at
>> all
>> ??
>
>The ones that cross illegal and have to hide out from the gov't, can drive
>drunk KILL someone and walk away from it because the local/state law
>enforcement can't touch them since they're an INS problem, and INS can't
get
>to them because there aren't enough of them (we've come up from 2 to 7 in
>this state.. the WHOLE state...)? Buddy if that's your idea of value you
>better get a new set of morals.
>BTW, stop trying to put words in my mouth. Read back to me where I wrote
>that all immigrants are not bringing value.
>
>>
>> Heck, most americans are not adding any value to days.. Truthe be told,
>> most
>> don;pt even pay taxes ..
>
>That's crap and if you really and truly believe it you've surrounded
>yourself with criminals and need to evaluate your placement in life.
>>
>> And, if they (immigrants) purchase good and services, are tehy not paying
>> taxes??
>
>Ok, here we go with the "READ THE WORDS I WROTE" part of this again. Pay
the
>same share of taxation that we all have to . So, if they aren't paying
>yearly federal taxes because they can't *exist* here legally.. how are they
>doing that LaMont?
>What part of that was not clear to you?
>
>>
>> Language: The Ellis Island crew did'nt speak the laguage.. It took them
>> awhile.
>> Oh yeah, they added Ganges, an the Mafia,organized crime.. Good citizens
>> from Italy..right..
>
>You forgot the mexican gangs, the chinese gangs, etc.... So what's that
got
>to do with it? Oh yeah, it's part of the immigration process to actually
>speak the native tongue. Oh, wait. I don't see what that has to do with
>still. Not speaking the language = mafia. Uh huh. Yeah. Maybe you better
>clarify that. Or perhaps you should close your mouth before you piss off
the
>Italian Americans, cause you know they might just send Guido the Brick after
>you. Or Lenny the Punch. Maybe even Tony Soprano.
>
>You seriously need to actually read my post before engaging your fingers
to
>the keyboard again.
>
>>
>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>No, sadly they probably meant if you come here learn the language, give
>> the
>>>same share of taxation we all have to and add something positive to the
>>
>>>society and you've missed the point.
>>>Seriously, I care not who comes from where as long as they offer something
>>
>>>to make the country greater for their families, themselves and those
>>>already
>>
>>>here. When I have freinds that pull their kids out of certain schools
>>>because they received honors by _default_ of actually speaking English,
>>
>>>Houston we gotta big fat problem. you guys may not be geographically
in
>> a
>>>place to have this happening in your town, but it's coming soon to ya
at
>>
>>>this rate if we don't get a handle on it.
>>>
>>>AA
>>>
>>>
>>>"Lamont" <jjd@aol.com> wrote in message news:467ee788$1@linux...
>>>>
>>>> That's right. They did not mean Africans, asians or even the natives
of
>>
>>>> this
>>>> land..Sad really sad..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>Hi jeff,
>>>>>Sadly I think they only wanted it to read..
>>>>>
>>>>>"Give me your European tired, your European poor,
>>>>>Your European huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>>The wretched refuse of your teeming European shore...."
>>>>>
>>>>>Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Jeff Hoover wrote:
>>>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>>>> Actually I think we ought to invite any who want citizenship and
can
>>>>
>>>>>>> speak some English to take an IQ and an aptitude test. Any with an
>> IQ
>>>>
>>>>>>> over 120 and a good aptitude score, if they have a clean legal record
>>>>
>>>>>>> and a record of steady employment, should be offered citizenship.
The
>>>>
>>>>>>> rest should be refused citizenship and should be sent back. We can
>>>>>>> use more able, intelligent people. Who says we should not pick the
>>>>>>> top applicants just like a company does. That's how we can make
our
>>>>
>>>>>>> country stronger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Give me your tired, your poor,
>>>>>> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>>> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore...."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nah, that was so 20th century...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>>>ADK
>>>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>>(859) 635-5762
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87196 is a reply to message #87193] |
Mon, 25 June 2007 22:53 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C7B78C.791740E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
sigh....=20
Last time I looked at tax forms, it was against the law not to pay your =
legally deemed fair share of it, unless you had non profit 503c or =
equivilant status.=20
-----------------------------
U.S. tax law determines tax status in the following four categories: 1) =
U.S. Citizen, 2) Permanent Resident Alien ("green card" holder) and =
immigrant, 3) Resident Alien for tax purposes, and 4) Nonresident Alien =
for tax purposes. The special IRS withholding rules do not apply to US =
Citizens, Permanent Resident Aliens ("green card" holders) and Resident =
Aliens for tax purposes.
Nonresident aliens for tax purposes are those non-U.S. citizens who do =
not meet the Substantial Presence Test (SPT). The SPT is a mathematical =
formula that calculates the number of days present in the current =
calendar year and the appropriate preceding two to six years. An =
individual that meets the SPT is considered a resident alien for tax =
purposes.
An individual's days of presence may be exempted when calculating the =
number of days for the Substantial Presence Test if s/he is:=20
a.. An F or J student. Days of presence are exempt for the first five =
calendar years.=20
b.. A J Visitor (non-student). Days of presence are exempt for the =
first two calendar years.=20
A nonresident alien must complete IRS Form W-4 according to the IRS =
regulations outlined in IRS Publication 519 (See =
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf).
Should a nonresident alien employee not complete the IRS Form W-4 =
according to the IRS guidelines, Georgia Tech will be required by the =
IRS to withhold the maximum amount of withholding for federal taxes.
For a more complete description of the above information on IRS Tax =
guidelines, see IRS Publication 519 (See =
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf).
------------------------
An illegal alien can't have any of the quoted status above. Therefore, =
they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an employer just begging for =
it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not impossible I suppose. =
-------------------------
While the issue of tax liability was raised during the announcement of =
the immigration reform proposal on Thursday, the response of Homeland =
Security Secretary Michael Chertoff left some ambiguity.=20
Referencing illegals who hoped to attain legal status under the Senate =
bill, Chertoff said, "You've got to pay your taxes."=20
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=3D5 5786
Above is an opportunity for IA's to catch up. Think they're gonna do it? =
How many you think are gonna do it? I'd guess a veeeery small =
percentage, but it's a guess only at this point based on currently =
available data.
While there are levels of criminality....Explain: How's that not =
criminal, LaMont, to not be paying the wage taxes?
And would you reward this behaviour with free health care, paid for on =
the backs of those that are responsible enough to pay taxes and keep =
insurance?
------------------------------
crim=B7i=B7nal=B7ly, adverb=20
-Synonyms 1. felonious, unlawful. See illegal. 6. malefactor, evildoer, =
transgressor, culprit, felon, crook, hoodlum, gangster.
-Antonyms 1. lawful. 2. innocent.
See above definition from dictionary.com
Did Oliver Stone put out a new movie, or do you have another 'reliable' =
source for the definition of criminal you're pulling from?=20
=20
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message =
news:468099bb$1@linux...
>=20
> Aaron, that's crap on your part to believe that every single so-called =
illegal
> immigrant is a criminal. That's crap.=20
See above. Answer the above question posed to you. I did not, note, say =
that all illegal aliens (yes, even those from Mars 8*P`) are bad ppl.=20
I did say they're here illegally. They are.=20
I also said I'm not interested in funding their health care while =
they're undermining the economy which I'm live in. I'm not.=20
Any points about that position that aren't clear?
>=20
> Again, was every family or person who came to this country via (slave =
trade,
> Ellis Island, or even indentured servitude) criminals? Could there =
have been
> some on the criminal element who came to this country via Ellis =
Island? or
> the slave trade? or indentured servitude?
If you'd care to google, you'll find that pretty much (if not) every =
country in existence has some skeletons in the past. The Crusades, Rome. =
Nazis. Sects of religions have arguably the bloodiest of battles. Man =
has a dance in all ages with evil and power. The thing is to have =
learned from the past, not repeat it if possible, get over it and move =
on wiser. You seem to have some issues with letting the past go. Why is =
that man?
I'm not talking about the past, I'm in the here and now talking about =
the current illegal alien issue.=20
Brother, put your preconceptions aside because it's blinding you to =
current realities. I really mean that in the best possible way. I've =
been funnin' you a little here but serious time. You have GOT to let the =
hate go, it's a cancer.=20
AA
>=20
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message =
news:467f4bac$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Aaron, are you saying that todays immigrants are not aading any =
value
> at=20
>>> all
>>> ??
>>
>>The ones that cross illegal and have to hide out from the gov't, can =
drive
>=20
>>drunk KILL someone and walk away from it because the local/state law=20
>>enforcement can't touch them since they're an INS problem, and INS =
can't
> get=20
>>to them because there aren't enough of them (we've come up from 2 to 7 =
in
>=20
>>this state.. the WHOLE state...)? Buddy if that's your idea of value =
you
>=20
>>better get a new set of morals.
>>BTW, stop trying to put words in my mouth. Read back to me where I =
wrote
>=20
>>that all immigrants are not bringing value.
>>
>>>
>>> Heck, most americans are not adding any value to days.. Truthe be =
told,
>=20
>>> most
>>> don;pt even pay taxes ..
>>
>>That's crap and if you really and truly believe it you've surrounded=20
>>yourself with criminals and need to evaluate your placement in life.
>>>
>>> And, if they (immigrants) purchase good and services, are tehy not =
paying
>>> taxes??
>>
>>Ok, here we go with the "READ THE WORDS I WROTE" part of this again. =
Pay
> the=20
>>same share of taxation that we all have to . So, if they aren't paying =
>>yearly federal taxes because they can't *exist* here legally.. how are =
they
>=20
>>doing that LaMont?
>>What part of that was not clear to you?
>>
>>>
>>> Language: The Ellis Island crew did'nt speak the laguage.. It took =
them
>=20
>>> awhile.
>>> Oh yeah, they added Ganges, an the Mafia,organized crime.. Good =
citizens
>>> from Italy..right..
>>
>>You forgot the mexican gangs, the chinese gangs, etc.... So what's =
that
> got=20
>>to do with it? Oh yeah, it's part of the immigration process to =
actually
>=20
>>speak the native tongue. Oh, wait. I don't see what that has to do =
with
>=20
>>still. Not speaking the language =3D mafia. Uh huh. Yeah. Maybe you =
better
>=20
>>clarify that. Or perhaps you should close your mouth before you piss =
off
> the=20
>>Italian Americans, cause you know they might just send Guido the Brick =
after
>=20
>>you. Or Lenny the Punch. Maybe even Tony Soprano.
>>
>>You seriously need to actually read my post before engaging your =
fingers
> to=20
>>the keyboard again.
>>
>>>
>>> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>>>No, sadly they probably meant if you come here learn the language, =
give
>>> the
>>>>same share of taxation we all have to and add something positive to =
the
>>>
>>>>society and you've missed the point.
>>>>Seriously, I care not who comes from where as long as they offer =
something
>>>
>>>>to make the country greater for their families, themselves and those =
>>>>already
>>>
>>>>here. When I have freinds that pull their kids out of certain =
schools
>>>>because they received honors by _default_ of actually speaking =
English,
>>>
>>>>Houston we gotta big fat problem. you guys may not be =
geographically
> in
>>> a
>>>>place to have this happening in your town, but it's coming soon to =
ya
> at
>>>
>>>>this rate if we don't get a handle on it.
>>>>
>>>>AA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Lamont" <jjd@aol.com> wrote in message news:467ee788$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> That's right. They did not mean Africans, asians or even the =
natives
> of
>>>
>>>>> this
>>>>> land..Sad really sad..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>>>Hi jeff,
>>>>>>Sadly I think they only wanted it to read..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Give me your European tired, your European poor,
>>>>>>Your European huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>>>The wretched refuse of your teeming European shore...."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jeff Hoover wrote:
>>>>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>>>>> Actually I think we ought to invite any who want citizenship =
and
> can
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> speak some English to take an IQ and an aptitude test. Any with =
an
>>> IQ
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> over 120 and a good aptitude score, if they have a clean legal =
record
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and a record of steady employment, should be offered =
citizenship.
> The
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rest should be refused citizenship and should be sent back. We =
can
>>>>>>>> use more able, intelligent people. Who says we should not pick =
the
>>>>>>>> top applicants just like a company does. That's how we can =
make
> our
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> country stronger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Give me your tired, your poor,
>>>>>>> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>>>> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore...."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nah, that was so 20th century...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--=20
>>>>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>>>>ADK
>>>>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>>>(859) 635-5762
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>=20
>>
>>
>
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16481" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>sigh.... </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>Last time I looked at tax forms, it =
was against=20
the law not to pay your legally deemed fair share of it, unless you had =
non=20
profit 503c or equivilant status.</EM> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>-----------------------------</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>U.S. tax law determines tax status in the =
following=20
four categories: 1) U.S. Citizen, 2) Permanent Resident Alien ("green =
card"=20
holder) and immigrant, 3) Resident Alien for tax purposes, and 4) =
Nonresident=20
Alien for tax purposes. The special IRS withholding rules do not apply =
to US=20
Citizens, Permanent Resident Aliens ("green card" holders) and Resident =
Aliens=20
for tax purposes.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nonresident aliens for tax purposes are =
those=20
non-U.S. citizens who do not meet the Substantial Presence Test (SPT). =
The SPT=20
is a mathematical formula that calculates the number of days present in =
the=20
current calendar year and the appropriate preceding two to six years. An =
individual that meets the SPT is considered a resident alien for tax=20
purposes.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An individual's days of presence may be =
exempted when=20
calculating the number of days for the Substantial Presence Test if s/he =
is:=20
</FONT></P>
<UL>
<LI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An F or J student. Days of =
presence are=20
exempt for the first five calendar years. </FONT>
<LI><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A J Visitor (non-student). Days =
of presence=20
are exempt for the first two calendar years. </FONT></LI></UL>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A nonresident alien must complete IRS =
Form W-4=20
according to the IRS regulations outlined in IRS Publication 519 (See =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Should a nonresident alien employee not =
complete the=20
IRS Form W-4 according to the IRS guidelines, Georgia Tech will be =
required by=20
the IRS to withhold the maximum amount of withholding for federal=20
taxes.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For a more complete description of the =
above=20
information on IRS Tax guidelines, see IRS Publication 519 (See =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p519.pdf</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>------------------------</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>An illegal alien can't have any of =
the quoted=20
status above. Therefore, they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an =
employer=20
just begging for it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not =
impossible I=20
suppose. </EM> </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-------------------------</FONT></P><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>
<P>While the issue of tax liability was raised during the announcement =
of the=20
immigration reform proposal on Thursday, the response of <A=20
href=3D" http://www.wnd.com/redir/r.asp?http://www.dhs.gov/xutil/cont actus=
..shtm">Homeland=20
Security Secretary Michael Chertoff</A> left some ambiguity.=20
<P>Referencing illegals who hoped to attain legal status under the =
Senate bill,=20
Chertoff said, "You've got to pay your taxes." </P></FONT>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D" http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=3D5 5786"=
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=3D5 5786</A></FO=
NT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>Above is an opportunity for IA's =
to catch=20
up. Think they're gonna do it?</EM> <EM>How many you think are gonna do =
it?</EM>=20
<EM>I'd guess a veeeery small percentage, but it's a guess only at this =
point=20
based on currently available data.</EM></FONT></P><!-- #EndEditable =
--><!-- #EndTemplate --></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><U><EM>While there are levels of=20
criminality....Explain: How's that not criminal, LaMont, to not be =
paying=20
the wage taxes?</EM></U></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><U><EM>And would you reward this =
behaviour with=20
free health care, paid for on the backs of those that are responsible =
enough to=20
pay taxes and keep insurance?</EM></U></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3Droset><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#800000><SPAN=20
class=3Dsecondary-bf>crim=B7i=B7nal=B7ly, </SPAN><SPAN class=3Dpg>adverb =
</SPAN><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#800000><SPAN>=97Synonyms 1</SPAN>.=20
felonious, unlawful. <SPAN>See <A style=3D"FONT-VARIANT: small-caps"=20
href=3D"http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=3Dillegal">illegal.</A> =
6</SPAN>.=20
malefactor, evildoer, transgressor, culprit, felon, crook, hoodlum,=20
gangster.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#800000><SPAN>=97Antonyms 1</SPAN>.=20
lawful. <SPAN class=3Ddn>2</SPAN>. innocent.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>See above definition from=20
dictionary.com</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>Did Oliver Stone put out a new =
movie,=20
or do you have another 'reliable' source for the definition=20
of criminal you're pulling from? </EM></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"LaMont" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jjdpro@ameritech.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>jjdpro@ameritech.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
wrote in=20
message </FONT><A href=3D"news:468099bb$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:468099bb$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> Aaron, that's crap on =
your part to=20
believe that every single so-called illegal<BR>> immigrant is a =
criminal.=20
That's crap. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>See above.</EM> <EM>Answer the =
above question=20
posed to you. I did not, note, say that all illegal aliens (yes, even =
those from=20
Mars 8*P`) are bad ppl. </EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>I did say they're here illegally. =
They are.=20
</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>I also said I'm not interested in =
funding their=20
health care while they're undermining the economy which I'm live in. I'm =
not.=20
</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><EM>Any points about that position =
that aren't=20
clear?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>> <BR>> Again, was every =
family or person=20
who came to this country via (slave trade,<BR>> Ellis Island, or even =
indentured servitude) criminals? Could there have been<BR>> some on =
the=20
criminal element who came to this country via Ellis Island? or<BR>> =
the slave=20
trade? or indentured servitude?</DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>If you'd care to google, you'll find that pretty much (if=20
not) every country in existence has some skeletons in the past. The =
Crusades, Rome. Nazis. Sects of religions have arguably the =
bloodiest of=20
battles. Man has a dance in all ages with evil and power. The thing =
is to=20
have learned from the past, not repeat it if possible, get over =
it and=20
move on wiser. You seem to have some issues with letting the past go. =
Why is=20
that man?</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>I'm not talking about the past, I'm in the here and now talking =
about=20
the current illegal alien issue. </EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>Brother, put your preconceptions aside because it's blinding =
you to=20
current realities.</EM> <EM>I really mean that in the best possible way. =
I've=20
been funnin' you a little here but serious time. You have GOT to let the =
hate=20
go, it's a cancer. </EM></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>AA</DIV>
<DIV><BR>> <BR>> "Aaron Allen" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>know-spam@not_here.dude</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
wrote:<BR>>>"LaMont" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:jjdpro@ameritech.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>jjdpro@ameritech.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
wrote in=20
message </FONT><A href=3D"news:467f4bac$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:467f4bac$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...<BR>>>><BR>>>> Aaron, are you saying that =
todays=20
immigrants are not aading any value<BR>> at <BR>>>>=20
all<BR>>>> ??<BR>>><BR>>>The ones that cross =
illegal and=20
have to hide out from the gov't, can drive<BR>> <BR>>>drunk =
KILL=20
someone and walk away from it because the local/state law=20
<BR>>>enforcement can't touch them since they're an INS problem, =
and INS=20
can't<BR>> get <BR>>>to them because there aren't enough of =
them (we've=20
come up from 2 to 7 in<BR>> <BR>>>this state.. the WHOLE =
state...)?=20
Buddy if that's your idea of value you<BR>> <BR>>>better get a =
new set=20
of morals.<BR>>>BTW, stop trying to put words in my mouth. Read =
back to me=20
where I wrote<BR>> <BR>>>that all immigrants are not bringing=20
value.<BR>>><BR>>>><BR >>>> Heck, most americans =
are not=20
adding any value to days.. Truthe be told,<BR>> <BR>>>>=20
most<BR>>>> don;pt even pay taxes =
...<BR>>><BR>>>That's crap=20
and if you really and truly believe it you've surrounded =
<BR>>>yourself=20
with criminals and need to evaluate your placement in=20
life.<BR>>>><BR>>>> And, if they (immigrants) purchase =
good=20
and services, are tehy not paying<BR>>>>=20
taxes??<BR>>><BR>>>Ok, here we go with the "READ THE WORDS I =
WROTE"=20
part of this again. Pay<BR>> the <BR>>>same share of taxation =
that we=20
all have to . So, if they aren't paying <BR>>>yearly federal taxes =
because=20
they can't *exist* here legally.. how are they<BR>> <BR>>>doing =
that=20
LaMont?<BR>>>What part of that was not clear to=20
you?<BR>>><BR>>>><BR >>>> Language: The Ellis =
Island crew=20
did'nt speak the laguage.. It took them<BR>> <BR>>>>=20
awhile.<BR>>>> Oh yeah, they added Ganges, an the =
Mafia,organized=20
crime.. Good citizens<BR>>>> from=20
Italy..right..<BR>>><BR>>>You forgot the mexican gangs, the =
chinese=20
gangs, etc.... So what's that<BR>> got <BR>>>to do with it? Oh =
yeah,=20
it's part of the immigration process to actually<BR>> =
<BR>>>speak the=20
native tongue. Oh, wait. I don't see what that has to do with<BR>>=20
<BR>>>still. Not speaking the language =3D mafia. Uh huh. Yeah. =
Maybe you=20
better<BR>> <BR>>>clarify that. Or perhaps you should close =
your mouth=20
before you piss off<BR>> the <BR>>>Italian Americans, cause you =
know=20
they might just send Guido the Brick after<BR>> <BR>>>you. Or =
Lenny the=20
Punch. Maybe even Tony Soprano.<BR>>><BR>>>You seriously =
need to=20
actually read my post before engaging your fingers<BR>> to =
<BR>>>the=20
keyboard again.<BR>>><BR>>>><BR >>>> "Aaron =
Allen"=20
<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:know-spam@not_here.dude"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>know-spam@not_here.dude</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
wrote:<BR>>>>>No, sadly they probably meant if you come here =
learn=20
the language, give<BR>>>> the<BR>>>>>same share of =
taxation=20
we all have to and add something positive to=20
the<BR>>>><BR>>>>>society and you've missed the=20
point.<BR>>>>>Seriously, I care not who comes from where as =
long as=20
they offer something<BR>>>><BR>>>>>to make the =
country=20
greater for their families, themselves and those=20
<BR>>>>>already<BR>>>> <BR>>>>>here. =
When I have=20
freinds that pull their kids out of certain =
schools<BR>>>>>because=20
they received honors by _default_ of actually speaking=20
English,<BR>>>><BR>>>>>Houston we gotta big fat=20
problem. you guys may not be geographically<BR>> =
in<BR>>>>=20
a<BR>>>>>place to have this happening in your town, but it's =
coming=20
soon to ya<BR>> at<BR>>>><BR>>>>>this rate if we =
don't=20
get a handle on=20
it.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>AA <BR>>>>><BR>>=
>>><BR>>>>> "Lamont"=20
<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:jjd@aol.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>jjd@aol.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> wrote in =
message=20
</FONT><A href=3D"news:467ee788$1@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:467ee788$1@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>...<BR>>>>>><BR >>>>>> That's =
right. They=20
did not mean Africans, asians or even the natives<BR>>=20
of<BR>>>><BR>>>>>> this<BR>>>>>>=20
land..Sad really=20
sad..<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>=
><BR>>>>>>=20
Chris Ludwig <</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>chrisl@adkproaudio.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>Hi =
jeff,<BR>>>>>>>Sadly I=20
think they only wanted it to=20
read..<BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>"Give me =
your=20
European tired, your European poor,<BR>>>>>>>Your =
European=20
huddled masses yearning to breathe free,<BR>>>>>>>The =
wretched=20
refuse of your teeming European=20
shore...."<BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>Chris<B=
R>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>=
;>>Jeff=20
Hoover wrote:<BR>>>>>>>> Bill L=20
wrote:<BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; Actually I think we ought to =
invite=20
any who want citizenship and<BR>>=20
can<BR>>>>>><BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; speak =
some=20
English to take an IQ and an aptitude test. Any with an<BR>>>>=20
IQ<BR>>>>>><BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; over 120 =
and a=20
good aptitude score, if they have a clean legal=20
record<BR>>>>>><BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; and a =
record=20
of steady employment, should be offered citizenship.<BR>>=20
The<BR>>>>>><BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; rest =
should be=20
refused citizenship and should be sent back. We=20
can<BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; use more able, intelligent =
people. Who=20
says we should not pick the<BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; top =
applicants=20
just like a company does. That's how we can make<BR>>=20
our<BR>>>>>><BR> >>>>>>>& ;gt; country=20
stronger.<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>=
"Give=20
me your tired, your poor,<BR>>>>>>>> Your huddled =
masses=20
yearning to breathe free,<BR>>>>>>>> The wretched =
refuse of=20
your teeming=20
shore...."<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>=
; Nah,=20
that was so 20th=20
century...<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>=
;<BR>>>>>>>>=20
;-)<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>=20
Jeff<BR>>>>>>><BR >>>>>>>--=20
<BR>>>>>>>Chris=20
Ludwig<BR>>>>>>>ADK <BR>>>>>>>chrisl@a=
dkproaudio.com=20
<</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>><BR> >>>>>>www.adkproau dio.com =
<</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.adkproaudio.com/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.adkproaudio.com/</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>><BR>>>>>>>(859)=20
635-5762<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>> <BR>>>>><=
BR>>>>=20
<BR>>><BR>>><BR>></FONT ></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C7B78C.791740E0--
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87204 is a reply to message #87149] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 05:47 |
gmmccurdy
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2007
|
Member |
|
|
I'll say it... "YES".
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:467f4bac$1@linux...
>
> Aaron, are you saying that todays immigrants are not aading any value at
> all
> ??
>
> Heck, most americans are not adding any value to days.. Truthe be told,
> most
> don;pt even pay taxes ..
>
> And, if they (immigrants) purchase good and services, are tehy not paying
> taxes??
>
> Language: The Ellis Island crew did'nt speak the laguage.. It took them
> awhile.
> Oh yeah, they added Ganges, an the Mafia,organized crime.. Good citizens
> from Italy..right..
>
> "Aaron Allen" <know-spam@not_here.dude> wrote:
>>No, sadly they probably meant if you come here learn the language, give
> the
>>same share of taxation we all have to and add something positive to the
>
>>society and you've missed the point.
>>Seriously, I care not who comes from where as long as they offer something
>
>>to make the country greater for their families, themselves and those
>>already
>
>>here. When I have freinds that pull their kids out of certain schools
>>because they received honors by _default_ of actually speaking English,
>
>>Houston we gotta big fat problem. you guys may not be geographically in
> a
>>place to have this happening in your town, but it's coming soon to ya at
>
>>this rate if we don't get a handle on it.
>>
>>AA
>>
>>
>>"Lamont" <jjd@aol.com> wrote in message news:467ee788$1@linux...
>>>
>>> That's right. They did not mean Africans, asians or even the natives of
>
>>> this
>>> land..Sad really sad..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Ludwig <chrisl@adkproaudio.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi jeff,
>>>>Sadly I think they only wanted it to read..
>>>>
>>>>"Give me your European tired, your European poor,
>>>>Your European huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>The wretched refuse of your teeming European shore...."
>>>>
>>>>Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Jeff Hoover wrote:
>>>>> Bill L wrote:
>>>>>> Actually I think we ought to invite any who want citizenship and can
>>>
>>>>>> speak some English to take an IQ and an aptitude test. Any with an
> IQ
>>>
>>>>>> over 120 and a good aptitude score, if they have a clean legal record
>>>
>>>>>> and a record of steady employment, should be offered citizenship. The
>>>
>>>>>> rest should be refused citizenship and should be sent back. We can
>>>>>> use more able, intelligent people. Who says we should not pick the
>>>>>> top applicants just like a company does. That's how we can make our
>>>
>>>>>> country stronger.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Give me your tired, your poor,
>>>>> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>>>>> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore...."
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah, that was so 20th century...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Chris Ludwig
>>>>ADK
>>>>chrisl@adkproaudio.com <mailto:chrisl@adkproaudio.com>
>>>>www.adkproaudio.com <http://www.adkproaudio.com/>
>>>>(859) 635-5762
>>>
>>
>>
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87209 is a reply to message #87185] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 07:26 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
>help..
Help must be defined as opportunity, not handouts. The welfare state
has helped cause the current crisis in the black family by paying more
money for unwed children, and many other abuses.
Black americans, when given opportunity do very well. You don't need
the white liberal democrat patronage system, that is for damn sure, but
that is what you are offered by those who make you promises of results
rather than promises of opportunity.
>Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
>My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are what
>you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
>type-smile) and make a really good living..
So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?
>I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for Blacks
>since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a hiring
>manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone cieling
>for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom line
>is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King
Jr
>if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people really
>do ned a helping hand.
King would kick these frauds in the ass and send them on their way.
That's the part you hope no one notices.
King has become a part of the culture, and his views have become
mainstream. The current "leaders" have to invent controversy and
race-hustle every situation they can to continue their careers and lavish
lifestyles.
>Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in a
>White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by the local
>Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
I've seen this. Go anyway and sue the cops.
>You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that
things
>were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were not after
>the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like after
>the Civil war.. Why??
And now blacks have their own hate groups. Progress?
>
>Is there still racism in America??
Where is there not? But there will be none in my house.
DC
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87210 is a reply to message #87196] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 07:41 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Aaron Allen wrote:
> /An illegal alien can't have any of the quoted status above. Therefore,
> they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an employer just begging for
> it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not impossible I suppose. /
According to one of the sites you linked (which largely agrees with you)
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
illegal aliens pay an average of $4,200 in federal taxes, for a total of
about 16 billion per year.
So despite the status problem you mention, many illegal aliens DO seem
to be paying federal taxes, and not an insignificant amount.
That site goes on to claim that illegal aliens are still causing an
average net drain of $2,700 per household. However this is interesting:
they claim that if illegal aliens were made legal, they would have an
average net drain of almost $7,700 per household, almost triple.
I don't know if those figures are solid, but I believe illegal aliens
ARE contributing to the federal tax system. It would be interesting to
know if those who have been here for a while and have become somewhat
established contribute more on a yearly basis than those who have just
arrived.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
|
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87211 is a reply to message #87210] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 07:52 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Aaron, I'm following your links/sources, this one looks at lifetime tax
contributions.
"The National Research Council concluded that immigrants will pay on
average $80,000 per capita more in taxes than they will use in
government services during their lifetimes. The Social Security
Administration, for example, estimates that workers without valid social
security numbers contribute $7 billion in Social Security tax revenues
and roughly $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes annually, yet elderly
immigrants rarely qualify for Medicare or long-term care services
provided through Medicaid."
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/06/reality_check _immigration.html
Again, I don't know if these figures are solid, but they paint a
different picture.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKruz.com
Jamie K wrote:
> Aaron Allen wrote:
>
>> /An illegal alien can't have any of the quoted status above.
>> Therefore, they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an employer just
>> begging for it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not
>> impossible I suppose. /
>
> According to one of the sites you linked (which largely agrees with you)
>
> http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
>
> illegal aliens pay an average of $4,200 in federal taxes, for a total of
> about 16 billion per year.
>
> So despite the status problem you mention, many illegal aliens DO seem
> to be paying federal taxes, and not an insignificant amount.
>
> That site goes on to claim that illegal aliens are still causing an
> average net drain of $2,700 per household. However this is interesting:
> they claim that if illegal aliens were made legal, they would have an
> average net drain of almost $7,700 per household, almost triple.
>
> I don't know if those figures are solid, but I believe illegal aliens
> ARE contributing to the federal tax system. It would be interesting to
> know if those who have been here for a while and have become somewhat
> established contribute more on a yearly basis than those who have just
> arrived.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKrutz.com
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87212 is a reply to message #87209] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 10:30 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
>>help..
>
>Help must be defined as opportunity, not handouts. The welfare state
>has helped cause the current crisis in the black family by paying more
>money for unwed children, and many other abuses.
>
>Black americans, when given opportunity do very well. You don't need
>the white liberal democrat patronage system, that is for damn sure, but
>that is what you are offered by those who make you promises of results
>rather than promises of opportunity.
>
>>Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
>>My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are what
>>you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
>>type-smile) and make a really good living..
>
>So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?
I dunno, Don, sounds to me like LaMont did the work, maybe America should
be thanking him.
TCB
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87215 is a reply to message #87209] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 13:47 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?"
Are you kidding?? What for? For institutional racism? Unfair labor and hiring
practices?
You call them poverty pimps (Jackson & Sharpton) but,they have done a great
deal for the African maerican community and I will always Thanks them for
standing up for us..
Also, you use terms like Libral all you want, but librals helped people..
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
>>help..
>
>Help must be defined as opportunity, not handouts. The welfare state
>has helped cause the current crisis in the black family by paying more
>money for unwed children, and many other abuses.
>
>Black americans, when given opportunity do very well. You don't need
>the white liberal democrat patronage system, that is for damn sure, but
>that is what you are offered by those who make you promises of results
>rather than promises of opportunity.
>
>>Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
>>My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are what
>>you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
>>type-smile) and make a really good living..
>
>So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?
>
>
>>I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for Blacks
>>since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a hiring
>>manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone cieling
>>for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom line
>>is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King
>Jr
>>if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people really
>>do ned a helping hand.
>
>King would kick these frauds in the ass and send them on their way.
>That's the part you hope no one notices.
>
>King has become a part of the culture, and his views have become
>mainstream. The current "leaders" have to invent controversy and
>race-hustle every situation they can to continue their careers and lavish
>lifestyles.
>
>
>>Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in
a
>>White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by the local
>>Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
>
>I've seen this. Go anyway and sue the cops.
>
>
>
>>You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that
>things
>>were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were not after
>>the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like after
>>the Civil war.. Why??
>
>And now blacks have their own hate groups. Progress?
>
>>
>>Is there still racism in America??
>
>Where is there not? But there will be none in my house.
>
>DC
>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87217 is a reply to message #87215] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 13:52 |
JeffH
Messages: 307
Registered: October 2007
Location: Wamic, OR
|
Senior Member |
|
|
LaMont wrote:
> "So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?"
>
> Are you kidding?? What for? For institutional racism? Unfair labor and hiring
> practices?
>
> You call them poverty pimps (Jackson & Sharpton) but,they have done a great
> deal for the African maerican community and I will always Thanks them for
> standing up for us..
>
> Also, you use terms like Libral all you want, but librals helped people..
>
>
.... people who know my wife and I would say "conservatives help people".
We just choose to do it rather than force it through legislation.
Jeff
>
>
> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
>>>help..
>>
>>Help must be defined as opportunity, not handouts. The welfare state
>>has helped cause the current crisis in the black family by paying more
>>money for unwed children, and many other abuses.
>>
>>Black americans, when given opportunity do very well. You don't need
>>the white liberal democrat patronage system, that is for damn sure, but
>>that is what you are offered by those who make you promises of results
>>rather than promises of opportunity.
>>
>>
>>>Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
>>>My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are what
>>>you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
>>>type-smile) and make a really good living..
>>
>>So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for Blacks
>>>since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a hiring
>>>manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone cieling
>>>for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom line
>>>is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King
>>
>>Jr
>>
>>>if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people really
>>>do ned a helping hand.
>>
>>King would kick these frauds in the ass and send them on their way.
>>That's the part you hope no one notices.
>>
>>King has become a part of the culture, and his views have become
>>mainstream. The current "leaders" have to invent controversy and
>>race-hustle every situation they can to continue their careers and lavish
>>lifestyles.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in
>
> a
>
>>>White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by the local
>>>Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
>>
>>I've seen this. Go anyway and sue the cops.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that
>>
>>things
>>
>>>were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were not after
>>>the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like after
>>>the Civil war.. Why??
>>
>>And now blacks have their own hate groups. Progress?
>>
>>
>>>Is there still racism in America??
>>
>>Where is there not? But there will be none in my house.
>>
>>DC
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87218 is a reply to message #87217] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 14:09 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That's for sure. Conservatives do help people.
Jeff Hoover <jkhoover@excite.com> wrote:
>LaMont wrote:
>> "So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?"
>>
>> Are you kidding?? What for? For institutional racism? Unfair labor and
hiring
>> practices?
>>
>> You call them poverty pimps (Jackson & Sharpton) but,they have done a
great
>> deal for the African maerican community and I will always Thanks them
for
>> standing up for us..
>>
>> Also, you use terms like Libral all you want, but librals helped people..
>>
>>
>... people who know my wife and I would say "conservatives help people".
> We just choose to do it rather than force it through legislation.
>
>Jeff
>>
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
>>>>help..
>>>
>>>Help must be defined as opportunity, not handouts. The welfare state
>>>has helped cause the current crisis in the black family by paying more
>>>money for unwed children, and many other abuses.
>>>
>>>Black americans, when given opportunity do very well. You don't need
>>>the white liberal democrat patronage system, that is for damn sure, but
>>>that is what you are offered by those who make you promises of results
>>>rather than promises of opportunity.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
>>>>My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are
what
>>>>you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
>>>>type-smile) and make a really good living..
>>>
>>>So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for
Blacks
>>>>since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a hiring
>>>>manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone cieling
>>>>for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom line
>>>>is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King
>>>
>>>Jr
>>>
>>>>if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people
really
>>>>do ned a helping hand.
>>>
>>>King would kick these frauds in the ass and send them on their way.
>>>That's the part you hope no one notices.
>>>
>>>King has become a part of the culture, and his views have become
>>>mainstream. The current "leaders" have to invent controversy and
>>>race-hustle every situation they can to continue their careers and lavish
>>>lifestyles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in
>>
>> a
>>
>>>>White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by the
local
>>>>Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
>>>
>>>I've seen this. Go anyway and sue the cops.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that
>>>
>>>things
>>>
>>>>were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were not
after
>>>>the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like
after
>>>>the Civil war.. Why??
>>>
>>>And now blacks have their own hate groups. Progress?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is there still racism in America??
>>>
>>>Where is there not? But there will be none in my house.
>>>
>>>DC
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87219 is a reply to message #87217] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 14:14 |
Jamie K
Messages: 1115
Registered: July 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think it's fair to say there are self-identified "liberals" AND
"conservatives" who help people.
Along with people who don't cotton to widely misconstrued labels.
All helping people directly from their own hands.
And indirectly through other organizations. Including via government
through schools, police, fire departments, sheriffs, hospitals, national
guard units, food stamps, ADC, courts, etc.
And through a myriad of private groups, some of whom may be
self-identified as "liberal" or "conservative."
It's also fair to say that there are self-identified "liberals" and
"conservatives" who don't help other people much if they don't have to.
The point being: It would be unfair to everyone involved to generalize
about who is helpful and who isn't.
Being helpful to others is a shared value that's not restricted to being
"liberal" or "conservative."
I've said it before but I really think those terms have become fuzzy at
best.
Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com
Jeff Hoover wrote:
> LaMont wrote:
>> "So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?"
>>
>> Are you kidding?? What for? For institutional racism? Unfair labor and
>> hiring
>> practices?
>> You call them poverty pimps (Jackson & Sharpton) but,they have done a
>> great
>> deal for the African maerican community and I will always Thanks them for
>> standing up for us..
>>
>> Also, you use terms like Libral all you want, but librals helped people..
>>
>>
> ... people who know my wife and I would say "conservatives help people".
> We just choose to do it rather than force it through legislation.
>
> Jeff
>>
>>
>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks
>>>> needed
>>>> help..
>>>
>>> Help must be defined as opportunity, not handouts. The welfare state
>>> has helped cause the current crisis in the black family by paying more
>>> money for unwed children, and many other abuses.
>>> Black americans, when given opportunity do very well. You don't need
>>> the white liberal democrat patronage system, that is for damn sure, but
>>> that is what you are offered by those who make you promises of results
>>> rather than promises of opportunity.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
>>>> My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we
>>>> are what
>>>> you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly
>>>> educated(can't
>>>> type-smile) and make a really good living..
>>>
>>> So just ONCE dammit, say thank you America. Can you do it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for
>>>> Blacks
>>>> since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a
>>>> hiring
>>>> manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone
>>>> cieling
>>>> for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom
>>>> line
>>>> is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King
>>>
>>> Jr
>>>
>>>> if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people
>>>> really
>>>> do ned a helping hand.
>>>
>>> King would kick these frauds in the ass and send them on their way.
>>> That's the part you hope no one notices.
>>>
>>> King has become a part of the culture, and his views have become
>>> mainstream. The current "leaders" have to invent controversy and
>>> race-hustle every situation they can to continue their careers and
>>> lavish
>>> lifestyles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in
>>
>> a
>>
>>>> White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by
>>>> the local
>>>> Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
>>>
>>> I've seen this. Go anyway and sue the cops.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that
>>>
>>> things
>>>
>>>> were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were
>>>> not after
>>>> the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like
>>>> after
>>>> the Civil war.. Why??
>>>
>>> And now blacks have their own hate groups. Progress?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is there still racism in America??
>>>
>>> Where is there not? But there will be none in my house.
>>>
>>> DC
>>>
>>
>>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87223 is a reply to message #87182] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 15:35 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I think Platoon was pretty realistic. So are other movies based on VietNam.
Big deal. Oliver Stone is also the person who did Natural Born Killers, JFK,
Salvador, Wall Street, Alexander, On Any Given Sunday........varying between
downright bizarre to inaccurate to totally one-sided to figmentalist to the
extreme and god knows what...........but all entertaining, to be sure. To
take this guy as an objective American historian would be like putting
Groucho Marx in charge of the American historical archive, but at least
Groucho knew better than to take himself so seriously.
;o)
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:468034b2$1@linux...
>
> You what DJ, Iasked my uncles who were in Namm , and they stated that the
> movie was really close ..Only , that the movie did not go as deep ..
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>La Mont!!!....Oliver Stone is now the national historian?????!!!!!
>>
>>ROTFLMAO!!!!
>>
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote in message news:467f6821$1@linux...
>>>
>>> No, that's bull-shitt..!!! You don;t wha you're talking about..
>>> Please..Did you see Oliver Stone's movie??
>>>
>>> I peersonally know of many of my relatives( African Americans) poor who
>
>>> got
>>> drafted and there where numerous whites sending their sons to college
> to
>>> avoid the draft , and send to canada..
>>> That's truth..
>>>
>>> So, you can keep you most educated BS facts..!!
>>> "DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in
> the
>>>>>Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>>>>sons
>>>>>to war.. No different today..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>One problem, it's bullshit.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.stolenvalor.com/
>>>>
>>>>Read it and discover that the vietnam soldier was the most highly
>>>>educated
>>>>group ever to serve. They have had the highest success in life, the
>>>>fewest
>>>>mental problems, and the lowest drug addiction of any veterans in the
>>>>20th century.
>>>>
>>>>The idea that the rich and connected all got out of vietnam and only
>>>>poor whites and blacks ended up there, is a lie.
>>>>
>>>>Read that book and get hip. It may open up a whole new world for you...
>>>>
>>>>DC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87226 is a reply to message #87210] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 19:09 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:468126f5@linux...
> Aaron Allen wrote:
>=20
>> An illegal alien can't have any of the quoted status above. =
Therefore,=20
>> they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an employer just begging =
for=20
>> it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not impossible I =
suppose.=20
>=20
> According to one of the sites you linked (which largely agrees with =
you)
>=20
> http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
>=20
> illegal aliens pay an average of $4,200 in federal taxes, for a total =
of=20
> about 16 billion per year.
Are federal taxes and wage taxes synonymous?
>=20
> So despite the status problem you mention, many illegal aliens DO seem =
> to be paying federal taxes, and not an insignificant amount.
>=20
> That site goes on to claim that illegal aliens are still causing an=20
> average net drain of $2,700 per household. However this is =
interesting:=20
> they claim that if illegal aliens were made legal, they would have an=20
> average net drain of almost $7,700 per household, almost triple.
They're still in the hole, every year, not a good thing. To make them =
legal, handle the cost of such and then have them 'subsidized' for =
welfare programs by the gov't isn't good, either. (A hand up needs to be =
that and that alone, time limited, and not become a hand out.) That's =
just burdon shifting but at least they'd be legal, trackable, and making =
efforts to stay within the confines of the law of the land they're =
living off of. I think they should be required within a reasonable time =
to have certain educational standards as well.. like, say speaking =
english to a standard high enough to get through life in the US w/o =
having to burden others. Basic guideline? If I need a translater to =
understand you, you need to learn the language better. This would do =
wonders for the less tolerant types that feel encroached upon as well, =
making things better all the way around.=20
Long story short: Legalize them, get them a hand upwards with =
time/figure limits and they either excel or they don't but the money =
ends either way and if they pooch it up, get prints and out you go. =
Welcome to the border, y'all don't come back now, yahear?
I'd offer the same to any US born deadbeats if we had somewhere to =
deport them to. :P
Now, I'm not pointing to the sick or unable. I mean the able bodied that =
can/should be adding value as a citizen, but choose the low road for =
whatever reason.=20
>=20
> I don't know if those figures are solid, but I believe illegal aliens=20
> ARE contributing to the federal tax system. It would be interesting to =
> know if those who have been here for a while and have become somewhat=20
> established contribute more on a yearly basis than those who have just =
> arrived.
No no.. I didn't say they weren't contributing at all, I said they're =
not contributing their share. How they're paying any SS or wage money? =
That's an interesting topic, one we're not likely to get a real solid =
and honest answer to.Additionally, no one has any sure fire 100% way to =
know that anybody's numbers are accurate / honest from the =
internet/papers/tv/interest groups, but it's the best we've got for =
right now besides what we see personally.. which is likely to be =
fragmented by region/personal experience. I have the opp to work =
with/around enforcement officers from security guards to local, state =
and federal level. They're all pretty much in agreement that the =
illegals, particularly Mexican illegals in this region, are waaay out of =
hand. That says more to me than any single source.=20
It's like I mentioned in the beginning of this thread though.. layered =
approach, see what works. Same as a mix. You might have a killer guitar =
sound, and it knows it rules the roost, but if the snare has suckage =
dripping from it, your mix has suckage dripping from it :)
There.. we back on topic for the NG with that?
>=20
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
n' cheers to you, again.
------=_NextPart_000_0092_01C7B836.544596E0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16481" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Jamie K" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Meta@Dimensional.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Meta@Dimensional.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
wrote in=20
message </FONT><A href=3D"news:468126f5@linux"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:468126f5@linux</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Aaron Allen wrote:<BR>> =
<BR>>> An=20
illegal alien can't have any of the quoted status above. Therefore, =
<BR>>>=20
they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an employer just begging for=20
<BR>>> it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not =
impossible I=20
suppose. <BR>> <BR>> According to one of the sites you linked =
(which=20
largely agrees with you)<BR>> <BR>> </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html</FONT></A><B=
R><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> illegal aliens pay an average of =
$4,200 in=20
federal taxes, for a total of <BR>> about 16 billion per =
year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are federal taxes and wage taxes=20
synonymous?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> So despite the status =
problem you=20
mention, many illegal aliens DO seem <BR>> to be paying federal =
taxes, and=20
not an insignificant amount.<BR>> <BR>> That site goes on to claim =
that=20
illegal aliens are still causing an <BR>> average net drain of $2,700 =
per=20
household. However this is interesting: <BR>> they claim that if =
illegal=20
aliens were made legal, they would have an <BR>> average net drain of =
almost=20
$7,700 per household, almost triple.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They're still in the hole, every year, =
not a good=20
thing. To make them legal, handle the cost of such and then have them=20
'subsidized' for welfare programs by the gov't isn't good, =
either. (A=20
hand up needs to be that and that alone, time limited, and not become a =
hand=20
out.) That's just burdon shifting but at least they'd be legal, =
trackable, and=20
making efforts to stay within the confines of the law of the land =
they're living=20
off of. I think they should be required within a reasonable time to have =
certain=20
educational standards as well.. like, say speaking english to a standard =
high=20
enough to get through life in the US w/o having to burden others. Basic=20
guideline? If I need a translater to understand you, you need to learn =
the=20
language better. This would do wonders for the less tolerant types that =
feel=20
encroached upon as well, making things better all the way around. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Long story short: Legalize them, get =
them a hand=20
upwards with time/figure limits and they either excel or they don't but =
the=20
money ends either way and if they pooch it up, get prints and out you =
go.=20
Welcome to the border, y'all don't come back now, yahear?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd offer the same to any US born =
deadbeats if we=20
had somewhere to deport them to. :P</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now, I'm not pointing to the sick or =
unable. I mean=20
the able bodied that can/should be adding value as a citizen, but choose =
the low=20
road for whatever reason. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> I don't know if those =
figures are=20
solid, but I believe illegal aliens <BR>> ARE contributing to the =
federal tax=20
system. It would be interesting to <BR>> know if those who have been =
here for=20
a while and have become somewhat <BR>> established contribute more on =
a=20
yearly basis than those who have just <BR>> arrived.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No no.. I didn't say they weren't =
contributing at=20
all, I said they're not contributing their <EM>share</EM>. How =
they're=20
paying any SS or wage money? That's an interesting topic, one we're not =
likely=20
to get a real solid and honest answer to.Additionally, no one =
has=20
any sure fire 100% way to know that anybody's numbers are accurate =
/ honest=20
from the internet/papers/tv/interest groups, but it's the best we've got =
for=20
right now besides what we see personally.. which is likely to be =
fragmented by=20
region/personal experience. I have the opp to work with/around =
enforcement=20
officers from security guards to local, state and federal level. They're =
all=20
pretty much in agreement that the illegals, particularly Mexican =
illegals=20
in this region, are waaay out of hand. That says more to me than=20
any single source. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's like I mentioned in the beginning =
of this=20
thread though.. layered approach, see what works. Same as a mix. You =
might have=20
a killer guitar sound, and it knows it rules the roost, but if the =
snare=20
has suckage dripping from it, your mix has suckage dripping from it =
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There.. we back on topic for the NG =
with=20
that?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> Cheers,<BR>> =
-Jamie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>n' cheers to you, again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87228 is a reply to message #87211] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 19:31 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
If those numbers are on, then that's just pretty stupid of them not to get
legal, isn't it? Problems are deeper than that though unfortunately but an
interesting find you have there none the less. I'm interested in knowing
more if you have some data? I'm still not sure how an illegal w/o a SSN who
can't claim status is paying legal wage taxes, and from the rate levels
they're usually at per hour. Perhaps they've overcompensated the tax leakage
up the Wal-Mart path to what it pays in fed taxes from purchases by
illegals?
Do you see the math error in that data? We're not talking lawyers and
doctors here, we're probably talking more like migrant farm workers and the
dude that cuts your grass once every week or two.
Gonna be a hard sell for me to buy that $80k pay-in overage figure man, I
have a pretty good grasp of what a hired 'lawn technician' makes since I was
in that business myself, and what you'd have to put up with on that gig. I
grew up on a cattle and vegetable farm and lived until a few years ago in a
highly saturated farm migrant worker town, if that makes any difference on
my take.
These days I'm city boy and loving it, heh.
AA
"Jamie K" <Meta@Dimensional.com> wrote in message news:468129a1@linux...
>
> Aaron, I'm following your links/sources, this one looks at lifetime tax
> contributions.
>
> "The National Research Council concluded that immigrants will pay on
> average $80,000 per capita more in taxes than they will use in government
> services during their lifetimes. The Social Security Administration, for
> example, estimates that workers without valid social security numbers
> contribute $7 billion in Social Security tax revenues and roughly $1.5
> billion in Medicare taxes annually, yet elderly immigrants rarely qualify
> for Medicare or long-term care services provided through Medicaid."
>
> http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/06/reality_check _immigration.html
>
> Again, I don't know if these figures are solid, but they paint a different
> picture.
>
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> www.JamieKruz.com
>
>
>
> Jamie K wrote:
>> Aaron Allen wrote:
>>
>>> /An illegal alien can't have any of the quoted status above. Therefore,
>>> they don't pay wage taxes unless they have an employer just begging for
>>> it that reports/pays on them. Not likely, but not impossible I suppose.
>>> /
>>
>> According to one of the sites you linked (which largely agrees with you)
>>
>> http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html
>>
>> illegal aliens pay an average of $4,200 in federal taxes, for a total of
>> about 16 billion per year.
>>
>> So despite the status problem you mention, many illegal aliens DO seem to
>> be paying federal taxes, and not an insignificant amount.
>>
>> That site goes on to claim that illegal aliens are still causing an
>> average net drain of $2,700 per household. However this is interesting:
>> they claim that if illegal aliens were made legal, they would have an
>> average net drain of almost $7,700 per household, almost triple.
>>
>> I don't know if those figures are solid, but I believe illegal aliens ARE
>> contributing to the federal tax system. It would be interesting to know
>> if those who have been here for a while and have become somewhat
>> established contribute more on a yearly basis than those who have just
>> arrived.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Jamie
>> www.JamieKrutz.com
|
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| Re: This is how FU'ed the US healthcare system is [message #87230 is a reply to message #87185] |
Tue, 26 June 2007 20:19 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hi La Mont,
Responses/comments below..........
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:46803863@linux...
>
> DJ,
> I would not expect you or many other whites to understand the plight of
> the
> Black america.. You stated" Jessie Jackson, Sharpton and other "leaders"
> along with
> the white liberal power structure handed them in the 70's and accepted the
>
> ecomonic model and become successful. If you want to hang a "racist" sign
> on
> "the government" you should hang it squarely around the neck of Ted
> Kennedy
>
> and his "boys" who created the welfare system back in the 60's and 70's."
>
> That system 'welfare' bythe way still has many more whites than blacks on
> payroll..
whites outnumber blacks in this country 10:1 so that would be expected, but
I'm not talk in strictly about blacks or other races here. I think the
blacks in this count were sold a bill of good by the white liberal power
structure in order to insure that they had a dependable voting base.
> Due to the in-herited racism that's plagued this country , blacks needed
> help..
>
I agree with you.
> Again, I would not expecpt you to under stand that, not being Black..
> My sister and I come from humble beginnings. Long story short, we are what
> you would call up-wardly mobile African Americans..Highly educated(can't
> type-smile) and make a really good living..
I believe you. 99% of the folks I know and hang with who happen to be in the
minority racial profile are of similar background. They have an level of
acumen that has allowed them to see past the BS..
>
> I've been in coporate america since 1984 and nothing has changed for
> Blacks
> since.. Yes, you can find some of us on the Ball fields..But, as a hiring
> manager, the numbers just are not there. There is a 'Glass" stone cieling
> for us in corporate america.. I could go on andon.. But, the Bottom line
> is this, the media today would even try to discredit Martin Luther King Jr
> if he were alive today. Saying that he's a Poverty pimp..Some people
> really
> do ned a helping hand.
I agree with you again, but that is changing, I do see distrust and
resentment among whites when someone of racial minority is appointed to an
administrative position where they have hire/fire capabilities over whites.
I also see this when blacks have hire/fire power over hispanics and vice
versa. I believe that one reason for this is, based on my experience, is
that those in power tend to surround themselves with people whom they
consider to be culturally simpatico.
>
> Whites say..Go out and get a job Black man..Well, If the Job(s) are in a
> White Suburb, well, that Black man will be harrassed to no end by the
> local
> Police ,making it hard just to pick up an application..
I think that in the white community there is a mindset that for 40 years the
same level of education and opportunity has been offered to minorities so
that they can learn "the system" because the "system" is what works for the
whites. You can argue that this is not correct and you would be right to
some degree, but a big part of why is that children in urban public schools
often aren't expected to perform at exceptional levels and a welfare system
has contributed to the utter destruction of the "family unit". this seems to
have happened to urban blacks in disproportionate numbers and that, my
friend, is in large part due to Ted Kennedy and "his boys". You don't see
inner sity youth invited for a romp on the lwan at Hyannis do you? You
didn't see chelsea Clinton attending public schools in DC, did you?
Part of the system has been admitedly culturally unfriendly to those who do
not play by it's rules. Those rules demand conformity. Even non-conformist
whites are left on the outside, but not to the degree that the racial
minorities are. However, if someone who is of racial minority proves
themself within this crucible, they gain respece and "equality".
Why???....because they are considered part of the solution.
>
> You all seem to think that after the turbulent 60's (civil rights) that
> things
> were alright for the Blacks.. They were not.. Just like they were not
> after
> the Ciivil War...The KKK and other hate groups re-surfaced just like after
> the Civil war.. Why??
"We all" don't think that at all. I have lived in situations where I was in
the racial minority and refused to accept "the system" that worked for those
of the majority and I was treated like shit and thrown in jail. I know a bit
about this myself.
>
> Is there still racism in America??
Yes....and it's not just practiced by whites.
Regards,
Deej
>
>
> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>
>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.ne> wrote in message news:467f4a21$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Dj, Come one.. Chris is right. This whole bring me you tired..blah
>>> blah..
>>> it seems..is only for Europeans..
>>>
>>I disagree. I believe it is meant for those who are willing to abide by
> the
>>laws of this country, accept the economic model of this country, learn the
>
>>common language of this country so that they can understand the laws and
>
>>thrive within the economic model.
>>
>>> Many many other people for around this glob would love to become
>>> american
>>> citizens. But, because of politics, they (US Gov )try to keep a certain
>
>>> ethic
>>> group numbers down..
>>
>>No, I think it is because it has become necessary to accept people now who
>
>>can and are willing to assimilate here rather than to insulate themselves
>
>>into a culturally insular ghetto and try to recreate their old life and
>
>>society here in a new country. It's a normal thing to do at first, but
>>nowadays, there is less emphqasis on becoming "American" and more emphasis
>
>>on taking what America has to offer while refusing to honor it's existing
>
>>laws.
>>>
>>> Now, in the case of the mexicans , it's a know fact that even with
>>> immagration
>>> reform, their numbers would drasticly create another political power
>>> base.
>>> In this case, for now, they (mexican/hispanics) would vote democratic...
>>>
>>Except for the ones who have accepted the economic opportunities and
>>thrived
>
>>and who mostly vote along conservative lines. As the last of the
>>conservatives are purged from the Democratic party, these folks have
>>nowhere
>
>>to go but the Repulican party. Same thing can be said for other ethnic
>>groups, including successful, upwardly mobile blacks who have taken off
> the
>>victim suit that Jessie Jackson, Sharpton and other "leaders" along with
>
>>the white liberal power structure handed them in the 70's and accepted the
>
>>ecomonic model and become successful. If you want to hang a "racist" sign
> on
>>"the government" you should hang it squarely around the neck of Ted
>>Kennedy
>
>>and his "boys" who created the welfare system back in the 60's and 70's.
>>
>>> Even more important: The REal reason your president and other s want an
>
>>> open
>>> boarder is because they know that we need to beuild up our armed forces.
>>> Seeing that most americans (Whites, Blacks, Asians) are not volutaring
> to
>>> enlist atthe numbers the Gove sees fit to maintain a vital fighting
>>> army..
>>>
>>> Teedy Kennedy today just spoke on George Steponaplis show stating that
>
>>> very
>>> thing...."The new bill states that in order to become a citizen a
>>> imagrant
>>> must "first server in the armed" forces..Then, after they have serverd
> ,
>>> they become citizens.
>>
>>This has always been the fast track to citizenship, not just recently.
>>Another hing you're missing is that we are not forcing anyone o do
>>anything.
>
>>there are requirements for for becoming a citizen here. The first one
>>should
>
>>be to obey the laws and not cross the border illegally.
>>>
>>> This is what they (US Gov) wanted from the start..TTo build up the armed
>>> forces with the ultra poor.. Seeing that that the only ethic group who
> are
>>> volutaring they services these days are your poor to middle poor
>>> whites..
>>> You know and I know, how the poor whites and blacks were exploited in
> the
>>> Veitam war. With middle class and upper middle where not sending their
>
>>> sons
>>> to war.. No different today..
>>> I would not send my son(s) to war in Iraq. Would you?
>>
>>These "poor kids" have a pretty high level of education for the most part
>
>>LaMont.. I would not send my son anywhere. If he were of age, I would
>>allow
>
>>him to make his own decisions.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:467f2d05$1@linux...
>>>>>
>>>>> The US goverment..
>>>>
>>>>Is this the same US government that runs the same country that these
>>>>people
>>>
>>>>want to immigrate to because it is so evil?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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