Home » The PARIS Forums » PARIS: Main » The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age
| The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83758] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 09:02  |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of that
emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation. And
of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on everything.
And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which shouldn't
really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the percussive
attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten I
say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to make
sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I solemnly
swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
TCB
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83760 is a reply to message #83758] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 10:29  |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of that
>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
And
>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
everything.
>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>many of the places where people put them.
Which is why a lot of people like the 1176 for guitars - it
lets the initial transients through while crushing the shit out
of the rest of the signal.
>Like electric guitars, which shouldn't really need compression
anyway.
Depends on the rest of your sonic content - sometimes a little
squeeze on the guitars helps to bring other things out in the
mix better... for me, compresson in this case is more about
making the guitars "sit down" rather than stand out. Where I
think people fuck up is to record a distorted guitar with
compression... it's really already compressed, when you think
about it, so if you track it with more compression on it, you've
kinda screwed yourself out of some dynamics before you even get
to hear how it sounds in context with everything else.
>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
Try one on kick sometime... set a 3-band one for 200 to 300hz on
the top end of the low band, and 3k-ish on the low end of the
high band, smash the crap out of it, then duck down the
level/output of the mid band ;)
You may never EQ a kick again.
>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to make
>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
Stick with Lead vox & snare applications for the LA-2A & you'll
probably fall in love with it.
Neil
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83762 is a reply to message #83760] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 10:46 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Of course, Neil, they're both great tools when used appropriately, but most
people don't. The reason I brought it up was because I got a CD from someone
and they want me to buff up the stereo tracks a little before they have it
printed. They're good friends and I want to help but there's no headroom
left (they mixed with a multi-band compressor AND an LA-2A across the 2-bus)
and I have to decide to either tell them the truth or squish it a teensy
bit more and give it back to them. And they're a _good_ band so I'd like
that to be reflected on their recordings.
I still think being a synth guy and having to understand envelopes as modulators
is a huge advantage when thinking about compression.
TCB
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them.
>
>Which is why a lot of people like the 1176 for guitars - it
>lets the initial transients through while crushing the shit out
>of the rest of the signal.
>
>>Like electric guitars, which shouldn't really need compression
>anyway.
>
>Depends on the rest of your sonic content - sometimes a little
>squeeze on the guitars helps to bring other things out in the
>mix better... for me, compresson in this case is more about
>making the guitars "sit down" rather than stand out. Where I
>think people fuck up is to record a distorted guitar with
>compression... it's really already compressed, when you think
>about it, so if you track it with more compression on it, you've
>kinda screwed yourself out of some dynamics before you even get
>to hear how it sounds in context with everything else.
>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
>Try one on kick sometime... set a 3-band one for 200 to 300hz on
>the top end of the low band, and 3k-ish on the low end of the
>high band, smash the crap out of it, then duck down the
>level/output of the mid band ;)
>You may never EQ a kick again.
>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>
>Stick with Lead vox & snare applications for the LA-2A & you'll
>probably fall in love with it.
>
>Neil
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83768 is a reply to message #83764] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 11:23 |
Carl Amburn
Messages: 214
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Could be wrong here, but this is cracking me up a little bit - isn't the
point he was making to *not* use compression on guitars - and... you guys
are all submitting tons of compressors to try out..... !!! Funny, man.
rock on,
-Carl
"DC" <dc@spammersinthemix.com> wrote in message news:46323dc6$1@linux...
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
> >
> >Compression on the way to the amp, esp for clean sounds or that Roger
McGuinn
> >twang, is one thing. I'm talking at mixdown, which I think is very
different.
> >
> >TCB
>
>
> In the mix, I use a lot of parallel compression and it works even for
> heavy and punky guitar sounds.
>
> As far as the pedal goes, it kills on way more than clean or twangy
> sounds. You should hear it, it would work on your stuff IMO.
>
> DC
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83772 is a reply to message #83760] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 13:15 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
In one of the interviews I did for Home Recording years ago I was talking
to the guy who did a couple of Pearl Jam records. I forget his name. Funny
guy. Anyway, I asked what he though was the single most important thing to
getting a good drum mix and he said, 'Cut as much as you can at 400 Hz.'
TCB
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them.
>
>Which is why a lot of people like the 1176 for guitars - it
>lets the initial transients through while crushing the shit out
>of the rest of the signal.
>
>>Like electric guitars, which shouldn't really need compression
>anyway.
>
>Depends on the rest of your sonic content - sometimes a little
>squeeze on the guitars helps to bring other things out in the
>mix better... for me, compresson in this case is more about
>making the guitars "sit down" rather than stand out. Where I
>think people fuck up is to record a distorted guitar with
>compression... it's really already compressed, when you think
>about it, so if you track it with more compression on it, you've
>kinda screwed yourself out of some dynamics before you even get
>to hear how it sounds in context with everything else.
>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
>Try one on kick sometime... set a 3-band one for 200 to 300hz on
>the top end of the low band, and 3k-ish on the low end of the
>high band, smash the crap out of it, then duck down the
>level/output of the mid band ;)
>You may never EQ a kick again.
>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>
>Stick with Lead vox & snare applications for the LA-2A & you'll
>probably fall in love with it.
>
>Neil
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83776 is a reply to message #83758] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 14:34 |
|
|
Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
1. Autotune
2. Autotune
Gantt
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>
>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of that
>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
And
>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
everything.
>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which shouldn't
>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the percussive
>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
I
>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>
>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to make
>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
solemnly
>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>
>TCB
Gantt Kushner
Gizmo Recording Company
Silver Spring, MD
www.gizmorecording.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83778 is a reply to message #83768] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 16:09 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
only one pedal that does it.
best,
DC
"Carl Amburn" <carlamburn@hotNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
>Could be wrong here, but this is cracking me up a little bit - isn't the
>point he was making to *not* use compression on guitars - and... you guys
>are all submitting tons of compressors to try out..... !!! Funny, man.
>
>rock on,
>-Carl
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinthemix.com> wrote in message news:46323dc6$1@linux...
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Compression on the way to the amp, esp for clean sounds or that Roger
>McGuinn
>> >twang, is one thing. I'm talking at mixdown, which I think is very
>different.
>> >
>> >TCB
>>
>>
>> In the mix, I use a lot of parallel compression and it works even for
>> heavy and punky guitar sounds.
>>
>> As far as the pedal goes, it kills on way more than clean or twangy
>> sounds. You should hear it, it would work on your stuff IMO.
>>
>> DC
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83782 is a reply to message #83758] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 16:40 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Damn!!!.....and I bought 4 UAD cards so I could run 87 of those things.!!!!
;oD
"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote in message news:46321e87$1@linux...
>
> 1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
> that
> emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
> And
> of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
> it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
> everything.
> And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
> many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
> shouldn't
> really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
> percussive
> attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten I
> say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
> think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>
> 2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>
> So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
> make
> sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
> solemnly
> swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>
> TCB
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83786 is a reply to message #83783] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 17:28 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
HOLY CRAP!! I'm gonna have to get one - those are the best Bass
compressors, EVER... they're OK for guitar to get that sound we
were mentioning, but IMO for bass they absofuckingloutley crank.
Only thing is, Gotta de-solder the input & output hot leads &
switche 'em around, though... that way you can stick the "plug"
end of the box in your amp input, instead of having it dangle
from your guitar jack (which is a physical impossibility in the
first place, if you play a strat - think about it).
Neil
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>
>The Orange squeezer is a GREAT sounding box. But no blend knob.
>
>And they are being re-issued!
>
>http://www.wdmusic.com/category_13466.htm
>
>DC
>
>
>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
>>>compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
>>>done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
>>>only one pedal that does it.
>>
>>Two... the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer (if you can ever find
>>one anywhere).
>>
>>Neil
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83788 is a reply to message #83786] |
Fri, 27 April 2007 17:37 |
dc[3]
Messages: 895
Registered: September 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I played one of the reissues when some of the prototypes
were floating around. I think like they got it right.
That box really works.
DC
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OI.com> wrote:
>
>HOLY CRAP!! I'm gonna have to get one - those are the best Bass
>compressors, EVER... they're OK for guitar to get that sound we
>were mentioning, but IMO for bass they absofuckingloutley crank.
>
>Only thing is, Gotta de-solder the input & output hot leads &
>switche 'em around, though... that way you can stick the "plug"
>end of the box in your amp input, instead of having it dangle
>from your guitar jack (which is a physical impossibility in the
>first place, if you play a strat - think about it).
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>
>>The Orange squeezer is a GREAT sounding box. But no blend knob.
>>
>>And they are being re-issued!
>>
>>http://www.wdmusic.com/category_13466.htm
>>
>>DC
>>
>>
>>"Neil" <IOUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Actually, the point was about parallel processing on
>>>>compression, which doesn't sound squashed. It can be
>>>>done with any compressor on mixdown, but there is
>>>>only one pedal that does it.
>>>
>>>Two... the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer (if you can ever find
>>>one anywhere).
>>>
>>>Neil
>>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83819 is a reply to message #83776] |
Sat, 28 April 2007 21:12 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Touche
TCB
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>
>1. Autotune
>
>2. Autotune
>
>Gantt
>
>
>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
shouldn't
>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the percussive
>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>I
>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
>solemnly
>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>
>>TCB
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83820 is a reply to message #83776] |
Sat, 28 April 2007 21:16 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
OK, I'm halfway with you.
1. Autotune
2. Quantizing
Sarah
"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:46326c60$1@linux...
>
> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>
> 1. Autotune
>
> 2. Autotune
>
> Gantt
>
>
> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>that
>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
> And
>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
> everything.
>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>shouldn't
>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>percussive
>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
> I
>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then they
>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>
>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>
>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>make
>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
> solemnly
>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>
>>TCB
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83825 is a reply to message #83820] |
Sat, 28 April 2007 21:58 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I happen to like both of those tools and think it's more the ID ten T loose
nut driving the keyboard.
:)
AA
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46341cf1$1@linux...
> OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
> 1. Autotune
>
> 2. Quantizing
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>
>> 1. Autotune
>>
>> 2. Autotune
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>>that
>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>> And
>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>> everything.
>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>shouldn't
>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>percussive
>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>> I
>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>>they
>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>
>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>
>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>>make
>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
>> solemnly
>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83852 is a reply to message #83820] |
Sun, 29 April 2007 23:28 |
LaMont
Messages: 828
Registered: October 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal performance..
My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
>1. Autotune
>
>2. Quantizing
>
>Sarah
>
>
>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>
>> 1. Autotune
>>
>> 2. Autotune
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>>that
>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>> And
>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
But
>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>> everything.
>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
for
>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>shouldn't
>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>percussive
>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>> I
>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
they
>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>
>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>
>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>>make
>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
I
>> solemnly
>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83857 is a reply to message #83852] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 08:10 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The 808 and MPC?!? You can't possibly be serious!
TCB
"LaMont" <jjdpro@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
>I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
>like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal performance..
>
>My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>>
>>2. Quantizing
>>
>>Sarah
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>
>>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>
>>> 1. Autotune
>>>
>>> 2. Autotune
>>>
>>> Gantt
>>>
>>>
>>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>
>>>>that
>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>> And
>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>But
>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things
on
>>> everything.
>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>for
>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>
>>>>shouldn't
>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>>percussive
>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>>> I
>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>they
>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>
>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>
>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>
>>>>make
>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>I
>>> solemnly
>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83859 is a reply to message #83852] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 09:49 |
EK Sound
Messages: 939
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
My pick (in order)
1) MAC
2) PC
;-)
David.
I was at a clients place over the weekend... he has 3 - 2" machines.
Ahhhh the smell of TAPE in the morning!
LaMont wrote:
> I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect (autotune)just
> like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal performance..
>
> My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC)
>
> "Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>>
>>2. Quantizing
>>
>>Sarah
>>
>>
>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>>>Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>
>>>1. Autotune
>>>
>>>2. Autotune
>>>
>>>Gantt
>>>
>>>
>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>
>
>>>>that
>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>
>>>And
>>>
>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>
> But
>
>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>>>
>>>everything.
>>>
>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>
> for
>
>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>
>
>>>>shouldn't
>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>>percussive
>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>>>
>>>I
>>>
>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>
> they
>
>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>
>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>
>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>
>
>>>>make
>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>
> I
>
>>>solemnly
>>>
>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>>TCB
>>>
>>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83862 is a reply to message #83859] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 10:33 |
Aaron Allen
Messages: 1988
Registered: May 2008
|
Senior Member |
|
|
yah man, I do miss that smell.
AA
"EK Sound" <askme@nospam.com> wrote in message news:46361e99$1@linux...
> My pick (in order)
>
> 1) MAC
> 2) PC
>
> ;-)
>
> David.
> I was at a clients place over the weekend... he has 3 - 2" machines. Ahhhh
> the smell of TAPE in the morning!
>
> LaMont wrote:
>> I totally disagree with all who said Auto-tune. It's effect
>> (autotune)just
>> like a phase-shifter, chorus, flanger. And,and can save a great vocal
>> performance..
>>
>> My vote would go to the beat boxes(R8, 808, MPC) "Sarah"
>> <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>
>>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>>
>>>1. Autotune
>>>
>>>2. Quantizing
>>>
>>>Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>>"Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>>
>>>>Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>>>
>>>>1. Autotune
>>>>
>>>>2. Autotune
>>>>
>>>>Gantt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>
>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>>>>
>>>>And
>>>>
>>>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch.
>>
>> But
>>
>>>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>>>>
>>>>everything.
>>>>
>>>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast
>>
>> for
>>
>>>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>
>>
>>>>>shouldn't
>>>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>>>percussive
>>>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>
>> they
>>
>>>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>>>
>>>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>
>>
>>>>>make
>>>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first.
>>
>> I
>>
>>>>solemnly
>>>>
>>>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>>>
>>>>>TCB
>>>>
>>>
>>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83869 is a reply to message #83865] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 11:50 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>
> I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
> video
> did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First, it
> placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song. This
> pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into some
> context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
> instead
> of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>
> "Images upon the screen
> finish our imagining
> first we watched the singers dance
> now we watch the dancers sing"
>
>
Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading up
a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots of
proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most often
at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown called
Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn, was the
owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these guys a bit.
Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a fairly proficient
guitar player. The band played lots of his original songs at the club gigs.
He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget which one now) and the band
was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian produced their first (and only)
album. Lots of major session musicians played on the album and though the
band members were good players and could hold their own, chris was just no
match for guys like Larry Carlton (who played lead on the album). they got
major airplay with songs like Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were
lots of other good songs on the album too...not much filler at all. When
they started touring to promote the album, MTV was just getting started and
they did a video. Chris looked a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris'
lack of photogeniety, along with the fact that they didn't bring along the
studio guitar slingers to flesh out the musical prowess and give the
audiences a semblance of the signature chops on a lot of the album cuts,
plus pretty much insured that a second album never happened...........but he
did get his 15 minutes and his songs still get airplay on the oldies
stations(mailbox money). Had he looked like David Lee Roth (I think he could
have even developed a "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had been
the type to get into wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and
fired his band, he would have probably been more successful. He had lots of
good songs in the can back then.
;o)
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83872 is a reply to message #83869] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 12:06 |
Deej [4]
Messages: 1292
Registered: January 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DJ" <www.aarrrrggghhh!!!.com> wrote in message news:46363b5f@linux...
>
> "Gary Flanigan" <gary_flanigan@ce9.uscourtss.gov> wrote in message
> news:46362f3a$1@linux...
>>
>> I'm not sure if this predates the computer age, but I think the music
>> video
>> did a great deal to damage music. It did this in several ways. First,
>> it
>> placed a fixed visual image in your brain associated with the song. This
>> pretty much made it impossible to have the music only and fit it into
>> some
>> context in your life. Second, it moved the focus to visual content
>> instead
>> of aural content. To quote one of my older songs:
>>
>> "Images upon the screen
>> finish our imagining
>> first we watched the singers dance
>> now we watch the dancers sing"
>>
>>
>
> Back in the late 70's an Austin musician named Chris Geppert was heading
> up a cover band by the name of Christopher Cross. They used to play lots
> of proivate parties and played a lot of gigs at local clubs there, most
> often at a nightclub called Steamboat 1874 and it's sister club downtown
> called Steamboat Springs. One of my good frineds, a guy named Kerry Flynn,
> was the owner/manager of Steamboat 1874 and we used to hang with these
> guys a bit. Chris was a good songwriter, had a decent voice and was a
> fairly proficient guitar player. The band played lots of his original
> songs at the club gigs. He ended getting picked up by a label (I forget
> which one now) and the band was flown out ot LA and Michael O'Martian
> produced their first (and only) album. Lots of major session musicians
> played on the album and though the band members were good players and
> could hold their own, chris was just no match for guys like Larry Carlton
> (who played lead on the album). they got major airplay with songs like
> Ride Like the Wind and Sailing. There were lots of other good songs on the
> album too...not much filler at all. When they started touring to promote
> the album, MTV was just getting started and they did a video. Chris looked
> a bit like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Chris' lack of photogeniety, along with
> the fact that they didn't bring along the studio guitar slingers to flesh
> out the musical prowess and give the audiences a semblance of the
> signature chops on a lot of the album cuts, plus pretty much insured that
> a second album never happened...........but he did get his 15 minutes and
> his songs still get airplay on the oldies stations(mailbox money). Had he
> looked like David Lee Roth (I think he could have even developed a
> "Meatloaf" kinda *ugly rocker* persona if he had been the type to get into
> wrteched excess.....he was a family man though) and fired his band, he
> would have probably been more successful. He had lots of good songs in the
> can back then.
>
> ;o)
Hmmm...actually, I now that I've started thinking about this I seem to
recall that that he did cut at least two and maybe three albums and I think
Warner was the label. Everyone was partying so much during the 80's, I don't
remember parts of it....;oP. The first one was the major opportunity for
rock stardom though. He wrote one of the songs in the movie Arthur, or
Tootsie or somesuch kinda' movie as well, IIRC.
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83873 is a reply to message #83870] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 13:03 |
DC
Messages: 722
Registered: July 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
This, as I am sure you know, is a very slippery slope. After all,
that is how they sang it... Would you autotune Buddy Guy's
bent notes? I would not. OTOH, for much commercial and
demo work, there is no intent to sound different, there is
simply incompetence. In those cases, the client and the
end users don't want it to sound they way they actually
performed it, so have at it.
I reach for those sorts of tools as a last resort only, much
preferring to ask them to do another take.
DC
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83876 is a reply to message #83870] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 13:50 |
TCB
Messages: 1261
Registered: July 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
They weren't the Every Brothers, but I don't remember Jan & Dean being all
_that_ bad. Didn't they do Dead Man's Curve too? I thought the harmonies
on that were pretty good, though it's been years since I've heard it. But
my ear for pitch is only so-so, nowhere near as good as my ear for tempo,
so I usually let the other band members decide of the harmonies are tight
enough. Live, I seem to sing better than in the studio, maybe because I've
been drinking and just belt it out, I've always been pleasantly surprised
when I hear our live vocals and completely horrified when I hear my studio
tracks.
However, I the official tempo Nazi in the band. And the designated guitar
volume Nazi, anti-compression Nazi, less reverb Nazi, and a couple of other
ones that don't come immediately to mind.
TCB
"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote:
>>OK, I'm halfway with you.
>>
>>1. Autotune
>
>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>
>>2.) Quantizing
>
>If you had been working on the string arrangement I was fighting
>with over the past two weeks, you'd have BEGGED for the ability
>to quantize the backing track. I know I was.
>
>Neil
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83880 is a reply to message #83820] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 15:48 |
Sarah
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2007
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Imagine the Rolling Stones autotuned and quantized. Eeeyooo. It hurts just
thinking about it.
S
"Sarah" <sarahjane@sarahtonin.com> wrote in message news:46341cf1$1@linux...
> OK, I'm halfway with you.
>
> 1. Autotune
>
> 2. Quantizing
>
> Sarah
>
>
> "Gantt Kushner" <ganttmann@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:46326c60$1@linux...
>>
>> Not that I disagree... but my vote would be:
>>
>> 1. Autotune
>>
>> 2. Autotune
>>
>> Gantt
>>
>>
>> "TCB" <nobody@ishere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>1. The UAD LA-2A emulation, and all of the other various emulations of
>>>that
>>>emulation. Opto compressors are great when used in the right situation.
>> And
>>>of course they're easy to use, there's two knobs and a bypass switch. But
>>>it's precisely the simplicity that makes people slap the damn things on
>> everything.
>>>And opto compressors don't belong on everything, they're way too fast for
>>>many of the places where people put them. Like electric guitars, which
>>>shouldn't
>>>really need compression anyway. I hear mixes from my friends and the
>>>percussive
>>>attack of the notes are just gone. It's mush. And nine times out of ten
>> I
>>>say, 'Hey, you're using an LA-2A on the guitars aren't you?' and then
>>>they
>>>think I'm some golden ears genius. No, your guitars sound like shit.
>>>
>>>2. Multiband compressors. I don't think I need to explain this.
>>>
>>>So, on my upcoming Monkies mixing any time I use an LA-2A I'm going to
>>>make
>>>sure I justify it in my head, and try a different comp/limiter first. I
>> solemnly
>>>swear to the entire PARIS newsgroup.
>>>
>>>TCB
>>
>
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83881 is a reply to message #83873] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 16:05 |
steve the artguy
Messages: 308
Registered: June 2005
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com.> wrote:
>
>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>
>>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>
>
>This, as I am sure you know, is a very slippery slope. After all,
>that is how they sang it... Would you autotune Buddy Guy's
>bent notes? I would not. OTOH, for much commercial and
>demo work, there is no intent to sound different, there is
>simply incompetence. In those cases, the client and the
>end users don't want it to sound they way they actually
>performed it, so have at it.
>
>I reach for those sorts of tools as a last resort only, much
>preferring to ask them to do another take.
>
>DC
>
I'm with Don on this one. In fact, frightening as they may sometimes be,
I'll take the original vocals of those tunes over whatever autotuned monstrosities
they'd be if they were made today. Maybe I'm a masochist.
I'm thinking in particular of an old tune I had once. "Like Maddy" or "Like
Matty" -- the most astoundingly lame vocal I ever heard on a 45, but oddly
charming in its innocence. Were it to be autotuned, it would be without charm
whatsoever.
I've been doing some work with a lady's band. She can sometimes sing in tune,
depending on how relaxed she is. We did a live gig that was not too bad.
When I heard the CD the engineer made of it, it was astounding. It was in
tune. All flaws had been removed. It was not her band. I feel like it's a
lie. It's like pasting my face on Superman's body.
-steve
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: The two worst things to happen to music in the computer age [message #83884 is a reply to message #83881] |
Mon, 30 April 2007 17:22 |
Neil
Messages: 1645
Registered: April 2006
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"steve the artguy" <artguy@somethingorother.net> wrote:
>
>"DC" <dc@spammersinhell.com.> wrote:
>>
>>"Neil" <OIUOIU@OIU.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hey, I'd have rather heard some properly-applied Autotune the
>>>other day as opposed to the car-horn tritones that supposedly
>>>passed for vocal harmonies on Jan & Dean's "Surf City" when it
>>>came on the Oldies station I was listening to.
>>
>>
>>This, as I am sure you know, is a very slippery slope. After all,
>>that is how they sang it... Would you autotune Buddy Guy's
>>bent notes? I would not. OTOH, for much commercial and
>>demo work, there is no intent to sound different, there is
>>simply incompetence. In those cases, the client and the
>>end users don't want it to sound they way they actually
>>performed it, so have at it.
>>
>>I reach for those sorts of tools as a last resort only, much
>>preferring to ask them to do another take.
>>
>>DC
>>
>
>
>I'm with Don on this one. In fact, frightening as they may sometimes be,
>I'll take the original vocals of those tunes over whatever autotuned monstrosities
>they'd be if they were made today. Maybe I'm a masochist.
>
>I'm thinking in particular of an old tune I had once. "Like Maddy" or "Like
>Matty" -- the most astoundingly lame vocal I ever heard on a 45, but oddly
>charming in its innocence. Were it to be autotuned, it would be without
charm
>whatsoever.
>
>I've been doing some work with a lady's band. She can sometimes sing in
tune,
>depending on how relaxed she is. We did a live gig that was not too bad.
>When I heard the CD the engineer made of it, it was astounding. It was in
>tune. All flaws had been removed. It was not her band. I feel like it's
a
>lie. It's like pasting my face on Superman's body.
I think there's a line - a fine one perhaps, but there's
definitely a line. On one hand, if you're such a purist that
any alteration or improvement to the performance is like
pasting your face on Superman's body, then I would expect you
to use an upright bass, not one of them newfangled plug-in-
eel-lectric ones (after all, the P-bass was invented to improve
intonation vs. fretless uprights, wannit?), and I would also
expect that if you DO record something, it would only be stereo
mic'ed, whether it's studio or live - I mean why would a purist
want to put different things on different tracks in order to
process even in the most limited means, like to adjust the
relative volume level between each instrument... that's not how
the performance happened, right?
Personally, I think the line an be crossed for any type of
correction... someone explain to me the difference between
Autotuning something and making a singer do seventy-five takes
each of the same phrase they have trouble with in every chorus?
The fact that "they" actually (finally) sang it? How many takes
crosses the line? Anyone ever record a sax player trying to
Coltrane his way through a 16-bar solo, only to have him do
about 20 punches to get it right? Where does THAT form of
correction cross the line?
Neil
|
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu Nov 14 11:17:20 PST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.05936 seconds
|
The PARIS Forums
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
